tv The Rachel Maddow Show MSNBC November 27, 2017 6:00pm-7:00pm PST
"the rachel maddow show" starts now. good evening. >> good evening, chris. great to have you back. >> great to be back. i hope you got a little time off at thanksgiving. susan and i accidently got a turkey that wouldn't fit inside our oven, which we did not realize until we had the turkey next to the oven and we're trying to cram it in. we ended up sticking the turkey in the barbecue out in the yard instead and necessity is the mother of invention. worked out great. we're always going to barbecue the turkey from here on out, even if it's a little tiny one. so i had a great thanksgiving. i'm happy as a clam. it's great to be back and you know what? it's nice to feel needed when you come back to work. and today, the news gods have ocbliged by making today insane as a news day. let's start tonight just with the stuff that is breaking this evening, just breaking tonight. rex tillerson, secretary of state is one of the most
controversial cabinet officials in the trump administration, which in this administration is really saying something. aside from the bare bones questions how he got this job in the first place and what a lifelong exxon employee might want to do to the u.s. state department and questions about the implications of his unusually close personal relationship of vladimir putin, alongside all those baseline concerns about him taking over at state, alongside all that, has risen something approaching panic now among long-time foreign service professionals and senior diplomats. as rex tillerson has just taken a meat ax to the state department particularly to its upper echelons. we have reported on this extensively on this show but "the new york times" just walloped the issue with this report. diplomats sound the alarm as they are pushed out in droves. well, following that report from
over the holiday break in the "new york times", tonight, bloomberg news is first to report that there is about to be yet another high-profile resignation at the state department but this time it's the person who rex tillerson put in charge of redesigning the department. the redesign is what they have called it as they have forced out an entire enratigeneration senior diplomats. the person that rex tillerson put in charge of remaking the state department is out of a job as of tonight. so raise your hand if you think that means that rex tillerson is going to bring back the people they pushed out. they will restore the state department to the previous strength. raise your hand if you think that's next. they have decided the person remaking the state department under tillerson's leadership is gone. also tonight, a federal court has once again smacked down the trump administration on one of its signature controversial
issues. in july president trump announced on twitter he wanted to kick transgender service members out of the military. in late august he finally got around to signing something on the subject beyond a tweet. by last month, the federal court was blocking the president's transgender ban in no uncertain terms. the ruling declared quote there is absolutely no support for the claim the on going service would have any negative effect on the military at all. that ruling was from october. tonight, that court has gun further and clarified the trump administration has until january 1st, 35 days from now to get their house on order to abandon the transgender ban idea and to make clear that chance recruitr are welcome. that ruling coming together. also tonight, t"the washington post" has broken kind of an inside out story that feels very
close to our hearts here at this show at msnbc. you might remember from this summer back in july we reported about how somebody had forced a fake nsa document. and then shopped that document to us as if it were a very damming scoop about the trump campaign with the russian government and the nsa knowing about it. we did not fall for that forged document, but it was unsettling to know people were shopping fake documents to try and screw up and discredit a news organization. a version of that has happened at the washington post, specifically to the reporting team that broke the blockbuster story about multiple women in alabama saying republican senate candidate roy moore pursued them romantically or sexually when they were teenagers and he was a grown man in his 30s. according to the washington post, over the last few weeks, a
woman approached them, approached that reporting team with a dramatic story about an alleged sexual relationship she said she had with roy moore. a relationship she said led to her having an abortion when she was 15 years old. now, this woman came to the washington post with that story over the last couple weeks that story does not appear to be true and the post reporters sus that out when doing due diligence further able to report the woman that came to them with the story appears to be an activist associated with one of these conservative activist groups that in this case was trying to discredit the accusations against roy moore by discrediting the news organization that first reported them. so "the washington post" was the subject of that fraudulent effort, the conservative group impersonating a sexual assault victim basically to try to discredit reporting on sexual
assault. dark story but also a big validation for "the washington post" and the way they did due diligence on that story. and while we're on the subject of consequence journalism. it's been a little more than a week since richard engel's dramatic reporting on the trump international hotel in panama. nbc news, richard engel and reuterss wo worked together on reporting. you may recall that story turned up fairly brazen evidence that the trump international hotel in panama was being run in part as a money laundering scheme, one that appears to have ties to russian organized crime. that reporting on the trump hotel in panama city came out a week ago friday. now today, the associated press reports owners of the trump international hotel in panama are working to strip president donald trump's name off the 70-story building and fire the
hotel management company run by trump's family. so again, the subject of that richard engel scoop from a week and a half ago, that hotel now reportedly trying to strip trump's name off the building and get trump's business out of the business of running that facilit facility. this follows news trump's name will be stripped from the trump soho building that had financial difficulties and also been linked to allegations of money laundering and organized crime. on top of that news today, abc news reported today that a lawyer for trump national security advisor mike flynn met with investigators from special counsel robert mueller's office today. that's abc news reporting. nbc news has not confirmed. the reason it felt like another shoe was dropping when you heard that report today about flynn's lawyers meeting with muller, the reason that felt like another
shoe dropping is because of the news that was first reported by "the new york times" on thanksgiving day. news that flynn's lawyers used to be working together with white house lawyers collaborating on their defense strategies on the russia investigation but apparently last week the day before thanksgiving, flynn's legal team backed out of that arrangement with the white house and started to pursue things. that landed like a bombshell on thanksgiving day. what does it mean, exactly? hard to say. flynn's lawyers pulling out of some sort of joint defense agreement with the white house. that may very well mean that flynn has become a cooperating witness for the muller investigation. it's possible. it may mean that flynn has entered into negotiations with muller's team about some sort of plea deal. it may mean neither of those. it might mean mike flynn got an annoyed with the white house and lawyers after we reported on wednesday night that the
president is not going to be making any financial contributions to help mike flynn's legal defense fund. maybe he just got annoyed about that. we don't know. we don't know what it means that flynn's lawyers and the white house lawyers are no longer working together on the russia investigation and again, abc news is alone thus far in the new report flynn's legal team met with muller and his investigators today. but it's all very intriguing stuff and we've got congressman adam schiff here live to talk about the significant that may be going on on that part of the case. adam schiff the top democrat on the intelligence committee in the house. now, we're also on senate watch tonight as republicans try to wrangle the votes to pass a gigantic tax bill trying to wrangle those votes, right after the congressional budget office just issued a report saying the bill will hurt poor people more than was previously estimated. the biggest hits in this republican bill really are reserved for the poorest people
in the country. in the bill's first year, everybody making less than $30,000 a year will get financially hurt, but the biggest whack will be taken at people who make less than $10,000 a year. think about that. the people that make less than $10,000 in income a year will be asked to pay the most. by the time this thing would be fully implemented, everybody making less than $50,000 a year will be paying thousands of dollars more every year while people in the richest tax brackets of course will pay less. republicans don't know if they got enough votes to pass this tax bill, but right now, right this second is when they are trying to line up those votes. so the arm twisting is happening and the fight is on. and the middle of all that going on. we're also waiting on the justice deputy tonight. president obama created the consumer financial protection
burro as part of dod frank. elizabeth warren came to advocate for and stand up the protection agency. president obama ended up appointing richard to run the agaen see and warren was one of the highest profiles. that agaency returned up nearly $12 billion to american consumers who got ripped off by credit card companies and banks and other financial institutions. he's the only director that agency has ever had. richard cordray announced he would be leaving the agency. on friday, the white house declared the deputy director of the agency wouldn't be allowed to take over and run the agency in his absence and instead, the white house announced they were putting in their own person to be the acting director and
turned out to be the white house budget director that said this agency, that he now maybe runs, he's said that this agency is an abomination basically and it shouldn't exist. it's been a weird day today in terms of being a lot of news breaking but that story in washington with the consumer financial protection burro and maybe the white house is running it now or maybe the acting director who installed when cordray was running it. that's a very, very weird story. i've never, ever, ever, ever covered anything like this where a federal agency with something like 1600 employees doesn't know whose running it because there are competing claims for that title. we've never seen that before. we got richard cordray live. we're waiting on the justice deputy because a federal court is trying to decide who actually is running that agency now. the justice deputy is supposed
to file their brief in the case tonight and so far, i mean, check your watch but we don't think they have done it. after 9:00. so the court will presumably rule once they got this filing from the justice department and everybody has been able to brief on both sides but as of tomorrow morning, who knows who runs that agency. who knows who was really running that agency today. it's not clear it would have been legal for the president to have sent his guy over there today to announce he was in charge. sure, you can say so but if it's not legal, you're not in charge. so i was really siked today to find out we got richard cordray on the show and i found myself getting really interested to find out what senator elizabeth warren may have to say about this, as well and then, and then, and then this happened. >> i just want to thank you because you're very, very special people. you were here long before any of
us were here although we have a representative in congress they say was here a long time ago. they call her pocahontas. >> see how the president sort of turns there at the end like trying to get the it's okay from the native american veterans standing beside him. he does not appear to get that from them. this is an event supposed to hon honor code talkers, world war ii veteran heroes. the president used that event and veterans has a prop to sling a historical name at elizabeth warren as an insult on a day he must have had elizabeth warren on the brain. appreciate you being here tonight. thank you so much. >> thanks for having me. >> first, let me get your reaction to the president invoking you today at that event at the white house and insulting you basically by sarcastically
calling you pocahontas. >> you really do have to start with the whole setting. so here it is a ceremony to honor these heroes. these men who did incredible work on behalf of our country. back during world war ii probably saved countless lives of americans, of our allies, just an amazing story and all the president had to do was just make it through this ceremony and honor these wonderful people, and instead, what did he do? had to throw out a racial slur. you know, he seems to think that if he keeps doing that, somehow he's going to shut me up. it hadn't worked in the past. it's not going to work in the future and whether he likes it or not, i'm going to be out there and i'm going to keep talking about what he's trying to do to the consumer financial protection burro. what he's trying to do right now on taxes. he wants to district from every bit of that but the truth is, he
is putting american families at risk, and i'm going to speak up about it and so are a whole lot of other people. he's not going to stop us. >> how does it affect -- i know you're saying he's trying to shut you up, that he's trying to cow you in someway. how does it affect your life and the way you go about your work as a senator when the president repeatedly often in settings that has nothing to do with you or any sort of proporeported de with you, he seems to go after you again and again and again and again and i just wonder what it's like for you and your staff when you're pursuing things. how that interrupts your life. how that affects your work. >> you know, the truth is, rachel, it doesn't. because i got into this fight for reasons that are deeply personal to me and long-time held. for me, running for the united states senate and before that setting up the consumer financial protection burro and
before that, being involved during the financial crisis to try to bring accountability to wall street was always about the same kind of thing, about trying to make sure that this government instead of working for a thin slice at the top instead of just working for a bunch of wall street banks was working for families, for hard working folks all across this country. it -- i always feel deeply grateful. i grew up in a family that was a paycheck to paycheck family and we had really tough times but i grew up in an america investing in kids like me and gave kids like me a chance to graduate from a state school that cost $50 a semester, that gave kids like me a chance to open a door and run through it and then another and then another. i believe in that america and that's why i'm in this fight. donald trump can throw whatever he wants at me. it's wrong. it's ugly. it's nasty. but it says a whole lot more
about donald trump than it does about me or the fight that i'm in. >> we're going to be speaking with richard cordray in a moment. he's up next on the show. obviously, he's the only director that the consumer financial protection burro had. you first proposed that agency in 2007, something like that. >> something like that. >> i've never -- i've covered a lot of weird stuff in washington. i feel like i specialize in covering weird things. i've never ever got anywhere near covering something like a federal agency, a good-sized federal agency with 1500, 1600 employees functioning with two apparent contenders to be the head of the agency. the white house thinks that they installed mick as the acting director today. it would appear from dodd/frank that set up the agency that richard cordray should have essentially designated the
acting director when he left, when the deputy director of the agency was named. what happened here and how do you think this will resolve? >> so look, this is donald trump bringing his chaos to the consumer agency. when dodd/frank was written, congress was really clear about this. they said there is a director and if the director is unavailable, richard cordray resigned, the deputy director automatically becomes the acting director. richard cordray names no one. there is no special ceremony or thing that has to happen. it's what congress designated as the succession plan for the consumer agency. now, donald trump says but there is a vacancies act that was passed decades before, and i think the vacancy act lets me put in a different director. well, the problem with that is the vacancy act, when it was
passed, said it applied to all the existing agencies but going forward, it would apply in effect that's what congress wanted it to do, kind of as the default position but congress could designate it's own succession plan if that's what congress wanted to do. well, interestingly enough, go back and look at the legislative history when they were building the cfpb. at one point, congress set it up to say we're going to use the vacancy act and then in the final version, the one everybody voted on, the one that got signed into law, congress didn't use the vacancy act. they said we're going to designate the succession plan. so leandra english, the woman that had been the deputy director became the acting director. that's simply what dodd/frank says and let me just make the point, there is a darn good reason for that. when congress made the change
and said we're going to do this ourselves, what they were really saying is we want to take this agency, which has this really tough job of taking on giant wall street banks. we want to take this agency and push it as far away from politics as we can. the banking regulators, all of them, the fed, the occ, the fdic and the consumer agency, we need to try to insul laate them as m as possible so these giant wall street banks don't lean on congress and in return, congress leans on the agency. >> massachusetts senator elizabeth warren. thank you for making time for us tonight. you came up in the news in lots of different ways. thanks for helping us understand your take on this. we got richard cordray up next. richard cordray who just left the financial protection burro where there was one of the
wrdest thiwrd e -- weirdest things unfolding. there is a real question who will physically show up and try to run that agency in the morning and there is a question as to what happens if two people physically try to claim the same office. how this gets resolved. richard cordray is here with us next. stay with us. cd's, baseball cards... your old magic set? and this wrestling ticket... which you still owe me for. seriously? $25 i didn't even want to go. ahhh, your diary. "mom says it is totally natural..." $25 is nothing. abracadabra, bro. the bank of america mobile banking app. the fast, secure and simple way to send money.
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the doors. >> rumors that i'm going to set the place on fire or blow it up or lock the doors are completely false. >> this is the person who says he is the new boss at the consumer financial protection burro but that is not at all clear, or it is not at all clear that this is legally true. mick says he is the boss at this consumer protection agency because president trump declared on friday that he could install an acting director of his own chosing. but as we just heard from senator elizabeth warren who came up with a whole idea for this agency in the first place, the law that created this agency doesn't say the president gets to install whoever he wants as an acting director. the law says there is a line of succession at the aagaigaiency the director leaves, the deputy director becomes the director. she's been at agency since the
beginning. so who is in charge? who gets to decide for claims of that agency. i've never seen this ever before in the time that i've been covering american governance and in all of the history i read about american governance. never seen this. yesterday, the deputy director, the person who you think would be the acting director, she filed a lawsuit in federal court trying to block the president's pick from taking the job. tonight, we don't know the status of that. don't we're waiting for the justice department to file their response to that in federal court. it's well after 9:00 p.m. on the east coast and we don't think that filing has been delivered. it's nuts. meanwhile we're joined by somebody at the very, very hug of the story. richard cordray is the newly former director. mr. cordray, thank you for being
here. >> pleasure. >> let me ask first of all to the point of where this news is now. do you think leandra english should go to the cfpb tomorrow and go sit in your office and act as the acting director of the agency as mick did today or stay away? >> so what i would say is i think that the law and i heard senator warren discussing it i thought was just right. the law is clear here. it says that the director that was me on friday shall appoint a deputy director. i did that. it then says very clearly and simply that if the deputy director is there is an absence, the deputy director becomes the acting director. that's what ms. english has now done and this is the kind of disagreement that involves two different laws. they conflict with one another.
the right place to hash that out is in the courts, which is where it is now. it shouldn't be decided by name calling and tweets and insults. it should be decided by people presenting their argument and a judge thinking over this judge obviously is looking at it overnight so recognizes it's a serious issue. and it will ultimately be resolved. if the trial courts' decision is something one party or another disagrees with, it will go to the court of appeals. that's a very ordinarily process that's appropriate. >> that is an orderly process that you described. it's not what is happening, though, because the white house pick has showed up and he made a big show out of bringing everybody donuts and held a press availability and announced hiring freeze and an activity freeze for the agency and he started talking about ms. english saying while she didn't show up today in regular business life, that would mean you wouldn't have a job when you came back the next day.
the white house is not pursuing this in an orderly -- in the kind of orderly fashion you just described and so does that change the calculous as far as you're concerned in terms of how to fight for this position? >> so i can't speak to or read the minds of the people at the white house, but especially, as i said, i think the law is pretty clear on this. it says that the deputy director shall act as the director until a nominee is presented to the senate and confirmed, and you'll remember rachel, i went through that process in my case i was held up for almost two years but ultimately was confirmed by 66 votes but that's an orderly process. people get a chance to vet that nominee. they get a chance to hear the views and weigh and consider it. this is a very fast process and the statute provided for the fast process to be handled by having the deputy director step in and be there until the president gets somebody confirmed. that will happen here eventually
but doesn't help us right now. >> do you have any regret? do you have any regret about leaving, about your decision to leave the agency given that this is what has happened in the wake of your departure and we're not only having this unusual fight but a lot of chaos and incredibly aggressive move by the white house to put somebody in there that made no bones about the fact he doesn't want the agency to exist. does the fact that this is what followed in the wake of your decision make you regret your decision at all? >> no, i don't. that's simply a matter of timing. it was very clear my term runs out in the part of next year. it was a few more months i could have stayed at the agency but the same issue would have arisen then. the trump administration ultimately will be able to present a nominee and the senate will confirm them or not confirm
them in which case that process will go on. so that was just a matter of timing. i stayed this year and fought being fired. you'll remember rachel for months i went into the office in the morning and a lot of people talked about me being fired. i didn't know if that would happen by the evening. i stayed there because there was important work to do. we worked on the arbitration rule. fight. 50/50 vote in the senate and worked on a payday lending rule which is an important rule in place. what happens in the future, you know, is hard to say. my hope and expectation is the consumer will be here 50 years from now, 100 years from now doing the same work we set up to do. it's good work. it's important work for people and families across the country who need somebody standing on their side making sure they are treated fairly and giving them a voice when they do get mistreated or cheated that they can have a problem they can bring to the burro and get fixed. that's very important work and i would be very surprised to see
the trump administration making a conscious decision to undo consumer protections for people that that want, need and deserve. >> richard cordray, the immediate former director, the on director that agency has ever had. the agency now just in a very strange situation with this stand off between dueling maybe directors, mr. cordray, thank you very much for your service in government. i know you've been through some really acrimonious times and please stay in touch as you make your future decision, sir, appreciate it. >> thank you. thank you, rachel. we got big news from another part of what is weird in washington right now. congressman adam schiff is the top democrat on the intelligence committee in the house. he's here in studio with us tonight. that's coming up. stay with us. the dedicated... the overachievers. we know our best investment is in ourselves.
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grandma's. aunt stacy's. what are the reasons you care for your heart? qunol coq10 with 3x better absorption has the #1 cardiologist recommended form of coq10 to support heart health. qunol, the better coq10. our govern was supposed to be a wake reup call for our government?sh across the country lost thei, their pensions and their jobs. i'm tom steyer and it turned out that the system that had benefited people like me who are well off, was, in fact, stacked against everyone else. it's why i left my investment firm and resolved to use my savings for the public good. but here we are nine years later and this president and the republican congress are making a bad situation even worse. they won't tell you that their so called "tax reform" plan is really for the wealthy and big corporations, while hurting the middle class.
it blows up the deficit and that means fewer investments in education, health care and job creation. it's up to all of us to stand up to this president. not just for impeachable offenses, but also to demand a country where everyone has a real chance to succeed. join us. your voice matters. ♪ when you have doctors working as a team for your health, you get the care you need to help you thrive. ♪ visit kp.org to learn more. kaiser permanente. thrive. ♪ sfx: stair creak sfx: clink sfx: deep breath sfx: grunt
sfx: tinny headphone music sfx: feet shuffling sfx: slice sfx: gasp sfx: inhale. exhale. sfx: lights scraping on roof sfx: metallic scrape sfx: grunt covered california. it's more than just health care. it's life care. . july 15th, 2016, heat of the summer and presidential race, a coup erupted in the nation of turkey. they were trying to take over the government from the elected auto in charge. as that croup was playing out, here in the u.s. a key member of the donald trump for president campaign just so happened to be giving a speech in ohio. this was general mike flynn, the president's future national security advisor as the coup was unfolding in turkey. >> there is an on going coup
going on in turkey right now. right now. the turkish military, anyone paying attention, they have been -- they have been, you know, just excised for many years by what really became a secular country, sort of a regular sort of nation and then began to move towards islamist. this is turkey. i'm going to be very fascinated to see what happens. one of the things the mill tar y -- military said, we recognize our responsibilities and want to make sure the world knows we are -- we want to be seen as a secular nation. this is the military. so, yeah, that is -- [ applause ] >> that is worth clapping for. that's mike flynn speaking july last year. that coup against turkey's government, yes, that's worth --
that's worth clapping for. of course, the coup was crushed. and then by the time our owner election day rolled around four months later, mike flynn had done a complete 180 on that issue. by our e llection day, he wasn' criticizing the turkish president for cheering for the coup. by the day of our election in november, there was mike flynn writing an op ed in support of the turkish government and leveling some over the top criticism at a clergy that lives in the united states who the turkish government blamed for starting the croup. in four months mike flynn went from yeah, let's crap for the coup to we ought to think about kp this monster. total 180.
for starters, in the middle of the two veevents mike flynn got paid over half a million dollars. a fact he disclosed after he was fired as trump's national security advisor and failing to register as a foreign agent for the turkish government is one of the many reasons mike flynn fin finds himself in what looks like serious jeopardy. in march 2017, a former cia director told the wall street journal that during the campaign in september of 2016, he had gone to a meeting in new york city with a bunch of turkish government officials and pimike flynn and over heard them talking about forcibly removing that clergy from the united states. >> i showed up and there were several turks and several americans there. there was some discussion, serious discussion finding
someway to move him out of the united states to turkey. you might call it brainstorming but it was brainstorming about a very serious matter that would pretty clearly be a violation of law. it was a serious and doubling discussion but it did not, repeat not rise to the level of my portion of being in the room. it did not rise to the level of a specific plan to under take a felonious act. >> more of a brainstorming session about a felonious act. but then early this month the wall street journal reported that robert mueller was investigating a second meeting, a follow up meeting between mike flynn and officials this time in december after the election after the transition where the plan seemed more fully formed. at that meeting the discussions involved the possibility of transporting him on a private jet to the turkish prison in
exchange for facilitating this, mike flynn and his son were to be paid as much as $15 million. now mike flynn's lawyer says those allegations are false but robert mueller is looking into those two meetings. we know muller is looking into the obstruction of justice president and the flynn investigation and firing james comey when that didn't happen. on that point, there is is something i need help with. former ci ara director witness the plan. according to poll lit cow -- politico with trump on saturday
night. what were they talking about at length? at mara lago. we don't know. the contents out conversations with any of them to a third party and doesn't intend to start now. he doesn't serve department right now more than any of us do. he's a private citizen. james declined comment for followup questions. i suspect that meeting, too, may end up being of real interest to investigators. if the president finds himself in the cross hairs for obstructs justice when it comes to the federal investigation of mike anybo flynn and turns out to be a witness for what flynn is is investigated for, why should that potential witness be talking at length to the guy who may be on the hook for obstructing justice in flynn's case. i need help with this.
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joining us now is adam schiff, the top democrat on the intelligence committee. congressman, thank you for being here. >> good to be here. >> since we last spoke. the campaign chairman has been indicted and rick gates. we had a lot of other journal t journalists news break about flynn, gates and others. i realize you never talk about anything in terms of the on
going investigation and can't talk about cloassified matters but i want your help on the significance of this. first, let me ask you about the reports that we had over thanksgiving break that general mike flynn, retired general mike there flynn's legal team told the white house they will no longer coordinate with them, no longer work with them in terms of the white house legal defense on the russia investigation and flynn's legal defense. they have decided to take different paths. what does that mean? >> i think that what it likely means is that the flynn investigation is at a critical point. where he will be indicted or he's going to agree to some plea agreement to potentially with lesser charges between him and his son in exchange for cooperation and whether this is a written defense agreement or oral one, basically, there is now a potential conflict of interest between his interest and his son's and the rest of the team. >> okay. >> you would expect that he and others around the white house
would be in that joint defense, gives them the ability to coordinate the efforts to review documents to discuss us all and effectively shield it but once one of those people start entering into serious discussions and negotiations that may put them in a conflict, in other words, if he has something to say about others, he needs to opt out of that agreement and that may very well be what is happening. >> a lot of what is being reported about flynn's legal jeopardy is not necessarily his relationship about russia. there is certainly a lot there but his relationship with turkey. he did paid work on behalf of the government and registered as a foreign agent after he had been forced to resign from the white house. your investigation on the house intelligence committee, are you limited to looking just at russia specifically or is any of these issues about turkey or potential foreign governments, have any of those been faulted into your work? >> i wish they were because reality is the government reform
committee is not aggressively pursuing this. the chairman is not looking at things. he has a new definition of the jurisdiction of his committee and if it involves legality, the reform in the business of oversight. >> this is chairman trey gowdy? >> yes. that's a startling different interpretation than benghazi but nonetheless it is what it is. their committee is not aggressively investigating this but neither is ours. now, we have dozens of witnesses that we still need to bring in central to the russian investigation that we haven't gotten approval to bring before the committee let alone witnesses to go to whether flynn was involved in an extra judici rendering of this cleric. >> aka kidnapping. >> as well as receipt of foreign funds and acting as an unregistered agent of a foreign power. someone needs to look at this in congress. it can't be or shouldn't be just bob mueller for the purpose of prosecution. we ought to look at this for
purposes of oversight and purpose of telling the country what he did and what happened but right now that is really not happening. >> speaking of witnesses in your committee, you are a tonight have two very controversial, very interesting witnesses before the committee. if you could stick with us for just a second. >> sure. >> we'll take a break and come back with congressman adam schiff. we'll be back with him after that. but right now, our bond is fraying. how do we get back to "us"? the y fills the gaps. and bridges our divides. donate to your local y today. because where there's a y, there's an us.
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democrat on the intelligence committee. thank you for sticking with us. >> of course. >> this thursday, i believe that your committee is hearing behind closed doors from eric prince, the founder of blackwater security firm who had an interesting cameo role in some back channel contacts with the russian government during the campaign. and also, attorney general jeff sessions. am i right that you're hearing both of the witnesses of tn same daysome. >> well, i can only confirm one of those interviews that with the attorney general because justice department already made it public that he's going to appear before us. which, you know, will give us a chance to probe deeper in terms of his contacts with papadopoulos and the russians he met with but also what's happened since and the white house violated justice department and kick starting the uranium-1 purchase. this is what they do in
democracies. they pervert the justice system to try to prosecute their vanquished rival. what was the communication, by whom, what did they say? how much of an injunction to do this was it? but also, to probe further this entertaining of the idea of appointing a special counsel which, again, would be i think a terrible abuse of the independence of the justice department. >> you suspect that the white house improperly intervened with the workings of the justice department on both those matters? >> i think if they intervened at all it was improper and i think the white house acknowledged that they did and this is the problem. you know? one by one we see these policies and norms and rules set up post-watergate, many of them, to protect the institutions being broken down and by the crush of this administration is doing we lose sight of just how many of the checks and balances are being eroded.
>> congressman schiff on the intelligence committee in the house. thank you. it's great to have you here. we'll be right back. [ coughing ] when you have a cold... stuff happens. [ sneeze ] shut down cold symptoms fast with maximum strength alka seltzer plus liquid gels. ♪ tired of sore throat lozenges that only last a short time? try new alka-seltzer plus sore throat relief. the melts dissolve quickly. plus, the powerful pain reliever provides long-lasting relief
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work on friday. the white house has installed someone else. the director of office of management and budget mick mulvaney saying he is watching over the agency. we are watching to see if a federal court in washington to take action to settle this matter. that appears not to have happened an we don't know what will happen as of 9:00 a.m. tomorrow. the claim for how that agency should be run, who should be the acting director, is set down in law. in the law that created that agency which is called dodd/frank. the frank in dodd/frank is barney frank a guest on "the last word with lawrence o'donnell" which starts right now. good evening. >> good evening, rachel. chris hayes told me earlier tonight he believes he is in the 9:00 p.m. hour at msnbc but i believe it is written in law that you are in charge of the 9:00 p.m. hour. >> yeah. >> of msnbc. >>