tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC January 9, 2018 12:00am-1:00am PST
>> and reciprocal. >> reciprocal. >> reciprocal. >> a fair and reciprocal one. >> and the word reciprocal is so important. >> reciprocity, my favorite word. reciprocity. tonight on "all in" -- >> mr. president, if robert mueller asks you to come and speak with his committee personally, are you committed to still doing that? >> mueller time is coming. >> just so you understand, just so you understand, there has been no collusion. there has been no crime. >> nbc news exclusive reporting. donald trump may face questions
from robert mueller in a matter of weeks. tonight, why trump's lawyers are trying to avoid a face to tase showdown. then as the self-described very stable genius pours gasoline on "fire and fury" -- >> well, i uwent to the best colleges or college. >> why republicans are suddenly rallying around trump. and about that oprah speech. >> this sounds like political presidential talk to me. >> new reporting that oprah winfrey may consider a run for president. >> a new day is on the horizon! >> and why that's not such a crazy idea. >> oh my goodness. at last i'm here! >> "all in" starts now. >> good evening from new york. i'm joy reid in for chris hayes. it's full speed ahead in the russia investigation. new reporting tonight that special counsel robert mueller may want to sit down with donald trump, perhaps in the next few
weeks for an on-the-record interview in the ongoing russia probe. the scope of mr. mueller's probe is reportedly vast, ranging from financial dealings to obstruction to potential conspiracy with the russian government. the president's lawyers are trying to limit the scope of the inquiry. the "washington post" reporting tonight trump's lawyers are reluctant to allow him to sit down for open-ended face-to-face questioning without clear parameters. as nbc news first reported, in addition to seeking to limit the scope of any interview, team is seeking potential compromises that could avoid meeting altogether. only perhaps to certain questions. the source tells "the wall street journal" that trump's lawyers have discussed only providing written responses to queries that are, quote, appropriate and respectful of the office.
mueller reportedly informed trump lawyers john dowd and jay sekulow last month that he may soon seek the interview, and he plans to sit down with trump's legal team soon to hash out the details. now if you represent donald trump, an interview by robert mule senior pretty much your worst nightmare. for starter, mueller is highly unlikely to provide the questions in advance, something michael wolff claims in his explosive new book that fox news' sean hannity has been all too happy to do, though hannity denies it. such a request would not be terribly surprising. the next time trump sat for an adversarial tv interview was in may when he sat down with lester holt and effectively implicated himself in obstruction of justice. >> what i did is i was going to fire comey. my decision. >> you had made the decision before they came in the room? >> i was going fire comey. there is no good time to do it, by the way.
>> because in your letter, you said i accepted their recommendation. so you already made the decision. >> oh, i was going to fire regardless of recommendation. regardless of recommendation, i was going to fire comey, knowing there was no good time to do it. and in fact, when i decided to just do it, i said to myself, i said, you know, this russia thing with trump and russia is a made-up story. >> during an impromptu story over the weekend, trump was asked if he would be willing to sit down with mueller. >> mr. president, if robert mueller asks you to come and speak with his committee personally, are you committed still to doing that? >> just you understand, just so you understand, there has been no collusion. there has been no crime. and in theory, everybody tells me i'm not under investigation. maybe hillary. i don't know. but i'm not. but there has been no collusion. there has been no crime. but we have been very open. we could have done it two ways. we could have been very closed and it would have taken years.
sort of like when you've done nothing wrong, let's be open and get it over with. because honestly, it's very, very bad for our country. it's making our country look foolish. and this is a country that i don't want looking foolish. and it's not going to look foolish as long as i'm here. so we've been very open. and we just want to get that over with. >> mueller's move comes amid a fairly public and fairly unprecedented debate over the president's mental capacity. trump sought to squelch the debate over the weekend in a pair of tweets in which he insisted, quote, my utwo greatest assets have been mental stability and being, like, really smart. adding that he went from very successful businessman to top tv star to president of the united states on my first try. saying i think that would qualify as not smart, but genius. and a very stable genius at that. a reporter asked trump why he felt compelled to send those tweets. >> well, only because i went to the best colleges, or college.
i went to a -- i had a situation where i was a very excellent student, came out, made billions and billions of dollars, became one of the gregg popovich top -- business people. ran for president one time and won. >> joining me maine now is richard blumenthal of connecticut, a member of the senate judiciary committee investigation which is investigating potential collusion. and senator, let's start with this question of donald trump going before robert mueller. in your view in terms of being a former prosecutor and being on the senate judiciary committee, what power does mueller have to compel testimony from the president? >> first, joy, that's a great question. there is no question that robert mueller will want to sit down face-to-face with donald trump and donald trump has no choice because what mueller can do is well established by the united states supreme court precedent. in the tapes case, as it's
known, the united states versus nixon. at that point, special prosecutors subpoenaed nixon's infamous tapes in a prosecution of seven of nixon's staff. and the united states supreme court said the president's not above the law. he has to comply with a subpoena and a generalized assertion of privilege cannot overcome that obligation. and as a result, by the way, four presidents since then have sat down before a grand jury or in interviews. three of them in a grand jury, presidents clinton and ford and the president who sat down before with a -- with a prosecutor was bush. but all of them complied, and all of them recognized they have an obligation. >> and if donald trump were to sit down for interviews with robert mueller, would or could the tapes of those depositions
and interviews ever become public or be handed over to your committee? >> they could well become public. in fact that. >> should become public. and at some point they would become public. the only question is one of timing. just as the details of the interview are not whether but when the president would be interviewed. >> and what about this question that we're seeing in some of our reporting here on nbc news and "the wall street journal" and other places, that the president's lawyers are attempting to shift the questioning to be in writing and to have questions submitted in advance. that something you could ever foresee happening? >> i am hard put to think that the special counsel would agree i to simply put questions in writing. because he is going to want to test the recollection of mr. trump. he is going to want to ask follow-up questions. and probing inquiries, if and when we're calling something. there are a whole set of questions that will be spawned by the answers that the
president may give. and that's the nature of the interrogation. and it may be viewed by the president as interrogation, but it's just questioning at this point. that will occur. >> i have to ask you while i have you here, there have been attempts by some of your colleagues on the other side of the aisle to shift the inquiry in the direction of fusion gps, to try in the words of the founders of fusion gps to try to solicit their bank records and to interrogatory them and christopher steele, the former mi-6 agent, including potential criminal referral that was made by members of the united states senate, people like lindsey graham. what do you make of that effort? and is there anything that democrats could do to release the 21 hours of fusion gps testimony to the various congressional committees? >> we've asked for that testimony to be released, the interviews that glen simpson have provide senator whitehouse and i specifically asked for disclosure today, because that
interview is the only possible new source of incriminating evidence. and there is no evidence of criminality in those introduce relating to christopher steele. sadly, the first major action by the republican leadership on the judiciary committee is aimed at someone who reported wrongdoing rather than committed it. in fact, christopher steele blew the whistle on russia. he told fbi that russia was in effect attacking our democracy with collusion by the trump campaign. and now the effort is in effect to divert attention from the real goals of our committee and maybe discredit the fbi. the real goals of our committee ought to be russian collusion and attacks on our democracy, collusion by the trump campaign with that russian attack and potential obstruction of justice. >> and very briefly, lastly, do you expect more indictments? you indicated that you might? and can you elaborate very quickly on that?
>> a at some point in the new year i think there will be more indictments, and very likely also convictions. because robert mueller is doing his work methodically and meticulously and he will use every tool at his disposal. he is already in possession of knowledge that we don't have from public source. i have no inside information. but i would expect the evidence that he has gathered so far and as well from cooperation from michael flynn and george papadopoulos who have been convicted to provide a basis for convictions and indictments going forward. >> senator richard blumenthal, thank you very much for joining me tonight. >> thank you. >> with me now are natasha bertrand and msnbc political analyst tim o'brien, executive editor of bloomberg view and bloomberg gadfly, and author of the book "trump nation: the art of being the donald." i'm going start with you, tim. you're in an enviable position of being one of the few people whom donald trump's threats of a
lawsuit were actually followed through on. he sue you'd over your biography of him over your claims of his wealth. and talk a little bit about how that went. you wound up being able to depose him. can you anticipate what deposing him might be like? >> i don't think he is going to have a good experience. we deposed him a decade ago. he was ten years younger he was in a room with three of my attorneys. they were all veterans, including mary jo white, former district attorney for southern new york. over the course of two years they just stripped the bark off of him. as the "washington post" and others have written, he lied about -- or was forced to admit he had lied about 30 different things during the course of that deposition. everything from how much he was paid for speakers fees to how much money he got from his father to how much land he actually owned in new york. it was every facet of sort of the trump mythology came into play. and he didn't perform well. he doesn't have a good memory. he doesn't prepare, and he is not a good witness.
>> we have some video here. this is a different deposition. this is not the deposition in the 2007 case that you did. but this was in the case of jose andres and another chef who donald trump sued because they pulled out of deals to put restaurants in his hotel. if we can take a little bit of a look at that. >> i do. >> that's the notice of your deposition. >> so i wonder if in a deposition situation like the one you went through, did donald trump in your view prepare for the deposition? >> no, i don't think he prepares for anything. that's why he is a dangerous and unpredictable client. he also creates these myths in his head about how things are going to go. any time donald trump son tv saying there is no collusion, or robert mueller is proceeding in his investigation in we should discount that. >> did he try to charm your attorneys? >> of course he tried. he said he wanted to hire my attorneys after the litigation
was done. so that is one route he follows. >> so natasha, let's talk a little bit about the white house and their state of mind around donald trump right now in anticipation of potentially going before probably some of the best prosecutors in the country, because mueller has assembled pretty much an a-list team according to steve bannon. some of them are akin to lebron james, at least one of them is. how worried are white house staff about donald trump in such an interview? >> they're clearly extremely worried. all you have to do is look at the past month of the sustain aid tacks on robert mueller by the president's allies in congress and the media to see that. they're really, really worried that mueller himself is getting really, really close to trump's inner circle, and now as we learn this morning, trump himself. you know, it really kind of sheds new light on the effort to kind of put the focus on people like christopher steele with the criminal referral that we saw last week. fusion gps with their bank records, the attacks to discredit mueller because of
some fbi agents who exchanged texts during the election, you know, expressing kind of disdain for then candidate donald trump. so this last month of kind of the sustained attacks not only on mueller, but on the fbi really are -- you can view them with new eyes, now that we know that mueller is planning an imminent interview with donald trump. >> are you hearing any feedback that perhaps members of the trump team are concerned that the attacks on mueller, the attacks on comey, the attacks on the fbi will actually make the interview harsher? >> absolutely. there is definitely a concern that trump's tweets, for example, about how he has been tweeting a lot about for example, he was tweeting about james baker, the former general counsel. he was tweeting about deputy director andy mccabe last month, casting doubt on whether or not he was politically motivated because his wife had received campaign donations back in 2015. so this is not just mueller that the president's allies have been attacking. it's also the fbi broadly.
and the fbi is a very proud institution. so when anyone kind of throws dirt on them, they come together and they get -- they feel very personally insulted. so this is definitely not something that is going to help the president's case when he goes in front of mueller. he is not likely to forget, you know, that trump has been launching these very sustained attacks on the bureau. >> tim, one of the sort of narratives in "fire and fury," in the book that is so outraging the white house is that donald trump not only doesn't want to prepare, but that he gets really bored and angry when anyone seems professorial. how would his team even prep him for these interviews? they're not going to be in there with him. ivanka can't go with him. >> his lawyers will be with him. >> but staff can't be. >> when you prep for a deposition or interview like this, there are binders of material you go through with your client prior to sitting down. it requires the client to be engaged, to be detail-focused, to be interested in reading, to retain information, everything donald trump doesn't do. >> i guess we're out of time.
i would love to talk with you for another hour. tim o'brien, natasha bertrand. >> thanks. ahead, the speech and the speculation. why people lost their minds at the prospect of oprah running for president. why the man they once called a bigot and in need of day care. that's next. millions of you are online right now, searching one topic. that will generate over 600 million results. and if you've been diagnosed with cancer, searching for answers like where to treat, can feel even more overwhelming. so start your search with a specialist at cancer treatment centers of america. start with teams of cancer treatment experts under one roof. start where specialists use advanced genomic testing to guide precision cancer treatment... ...that may lead to targeted therapies and more treatment options. start where there's a commitment to analyzing
everybody in this white house, and i keep saying this 100%, because it is 100% of the people closest to the president, to donald trump believe that there is something wrong here, something -- something fundamentally wrong. something that scares them. >> michael wolff's explosive new book "fire and fury" has ignited for the first time a public conversation about whether donald trump has the mental capacity to do his job. but the more evidence mounts of his essential unfitness to be
president, the more trump's political allies rally around him. in fact, the more obsequious they become. and that includes some of his toughest critics on capitol hill. in 2016, republican senator lindsey graham made no secret of his distaste for donald trump. >> he is a race-baiting xenophoic bigot. he doesn't represent my party. he doesn't represent the values that the men and women in uniform are fighting for. i'm not going to try to get into the mind of donald trump because i don't think there is a whole lot of space there. i think he is a kook. i think see crazy. i think he is unfit for office. >> more recently he has become the president's golf buddy. after the president spent the weekend defending his basic intelligence and mental stability, describing himself as a very stable genius, senator graham explained his change of heart. >> he beat me like a drum. he ran against 17 republicans
and crushed us all. he ran against the clinton machine and won. so all i can say is you can say anything you want to say about the guy. i said it was a xenophobic race baiting religious bigot. i ran out of things to say. he won. guess what? he is our president. >> we've seen a similar about-face from senator bob corker, arguably the president's fiercest republican detractor who famously referred to the white house as an adult day-care center. it was just a few months ago that corker sounded alarms about the president's behavior on a remarkable on-the-record interview with "the new york times." >> sometimes i feel like he is on a reality show of some kind, you know, when he is talking about these big foreign policy issues. >> yeah. >> and, you know, he doesn't realize that, you know, that we could be heading towards world war iii with the kind of comments that he is making. >> well, since then, corker and trump have patched things up, to say the least, and reportedly
began talking on the phone in recent months. and today there was corker, joining the president on air force one for a chummy ulittle trip to corker's home state of tennessee. he gordon humphrey is a never trump republican. thank you for being here. i want to play you what omarosa galt said about donald trump. this was in a frontline documentary about him running for president. >> every critic, every detractor will have to bow down to president trump. it's everyone who has ever doubted donald, whoever disagreed, whoever challenged him. it is the ultimate revenge to become the most powerful man in the universe. >> is that not just becoming the president of the united states, that enough in your view to have cowed all of these senators who have gone from trump critics to
trump fans, in some cases just in the last eight weeks? >> you asking me? >> yeah. why do you suppose so many united states senators have done exactly what omarosa said they would do, bow down? >> yeah, well, the office of president has a lot of charm, i suppose. but i think what you're underscoring here is that we really must depend upon the vice president and the cabinet ultimately to come to a conclusion that this president is incapable of responsibly and prudently and even sanely discharging the offices and duties, the powers and duties of the office, and that his powers should be transferred to the vice president. i don't think it's going to happen in congress. but the constitution gives the cabinet that authority as well. and i hope one of these days we'll see one cabinet member show the courage to take the leadership to unburden the
nation of this president who is mentally unbalanced. >> but, sir, with all due respect, if there is anyone that has been completelier is vial to donald trump, it is the vice president and the cabinet. you see them going around the room, praising him, gazing up at him as if he was the sun god as he was described, as he thinks of himself in "fire and fury" in michael wolff's book. the cabinet has been completely subpine. have you seen any evidence that any of them would stapp stand up for what you're saying and try to put a stop though this presidency? >> well, you'll recall that secretary tillerson allegedly alleged and made the statement that the president is a moron. surely that thought is shared by a majority of the members of the cabinet. we have a government of regents at the moment overseeing an imbecilic infantile president. and that has to end. we need a real president. the cabinet must act and devolve the powers to the vice
president, as as soon as possible. >> and yet rex tillerson said he is happy to stay on. he too was doing glowing interview, lauding donald trump just this past weekend and say he plans to stay on and continue to serve him. if you go back to the members of the united states senate, this is a coequal branch of government. i think it's perplexed a lot of people to see really powerful senator, people like lindsey graham who is not up for immediate reelection, bob corker who is retiring, he is leaving, he is a very wealthy man there is nothing president trump can do to lindsey graham and bob corker, and yet the servility continues. can you relate as a former senator yourself to the way these men are behaving? and they didn't do it right after the election when they say he won, i'm going to be with him. they're literally making this change in the last few weeks. >> well, i find it especially disappointing in republicans because by covering for president, making excuses, rung interference for him, they're enabling the man to continue in
his irresponsible, outrageous, dangerous conduct. talk about comparing nuclear buttons, whether it was sexual innuendo in that or not, it was just outrageous. the president apparently has no understanding of what a nuclear war would be like. this is extremely dangerous. the man is irrational. he is an ignoramus. he is totally unequipped and unprepared for the office. he is incurious, unread. he is an ignoramus. and on top of that, he is a man of depraved character. and probably mentally ill. i mean, delusional. he makes up his own reality and believes it. these twitters, we've got two years of evidence now that the man is weird, bizarre, not of sound mind. he is surely mentally toil some degree. precisely what that diagnosis might be is really immaterial. because it's the effect that counts.
and the president is undermining the national institutions that are such great value us to. in the first amendment, freedom of the speech and freedom of the press to name the most important. and he is endangering national security with all of this saber rattling and comparison of his nuclear button with that of the north korean dictator. it's outrageous and it's very dangerous. >> it is -- i think a lot of people share your view and wish there was a republican party that had some gordon humphriess that would do something about it. senator gordon humphrey, thank you for being here. >> thank you, joy. >> thank you. coming up, another republican chairman announces he is retiring from congress. i'll speak with tom steyer about his retirement today in the wave of a blue election, just ahead. if your moderate to severe ulcerative colitis or crohn's symptoms are holding you back, and your current treatment hasn't worked well enough, it may be time for a change. ask your doctor about entyvio, the only biologic developed
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despite the increasingly disturbing questions about the man in the white house, the extreme agenda of his administration keeps marching forward. the trump administration is telling nearly 200,000 salvadorans they must leave, people who have been here since devastating earthquakes in el salvador in 2001. trump is requesting $18 billion for the initial phase of his border wall, the one mexico was supposed to pay for, demanding that congress give his administration the money or hew 800,000 immigrants who were brought to this country as children. >> we want the wall. the wall is going to happen or we're not going to have daca. well want to get rid of chain migration. very important. and we want to get rid of the lottery system. >> trump's disdain for so-called chain migration and the visa lottery program are based more on fearmongering than fax. but whether to risk a government
shutdown or to give in to the political blackmail there is also the alternative. democrats are looking to 2018 as the next best chance to put the brakes on this administration and its agenda. today the man who has already spent millions of dollars calling for donald trump's impeachment made a big announcement. tom steyer joins me next. my digestive system used to make me feel sluggish but now, i take metamucil every day. it traps and removes the waste that weighs me down, so i feel lighter. try metamucil, and begin to feel what lighter feels like.
donor behind a series of nationally broadcast ads pushing for president's removal. tom steyer has spent $20 million on the effort, leading to questions about whether the buy was at least in part about his own political ambitions. well, today steyer made a big announcement. no, he is not running but he does have designs on helping democrats take control of the house. >> so i'm not going to run for office in 2018. that's not where i can make the biggest difference. 2018 is going to be a fierce contest for many and for everyone on our team. 2018 is going to be a straight forward debate between two radically different visions of america. in ten months, god willing, the people of america are going to send a wave across the nation. this tide will wash away the stain of the trump administration. >> tom steyer is the founder and president of nexgen america
which will focus on increasing millennial voter turnout in 2018. thanks for being here you. spent quite a bit of money. $20 million is quite a lot of money on ads calling for donald trump's impeachment. surely you know that republicans, that this current congress is not going to impeach donald trump. so what was that about? what was that $20 million spent for? was it about building a database? was it about getting your name throughout so you could potentially run for office? what was that about? >> well, joy, first of all, let me say we're doubling down on the need to impeach campaign. it's not what it was about, it's what it is about. the fact of the matter is the whole point of the need to impeach campaign was to empower and enable the voice of the american people to be heard. and we believe and we believed then when we started on october 20th, and we believe today that in fact the president is dangerous. he is unfit for office. we need to get rid of him. and that the american people's
voice, regardless of what party they're in is the only power in the land that will make that happen, is the only thing that the elected officials of both parties absolutely have to listen to. so it's true that we're going to do all the youth organizing that i talked about this morning. but it's also true that we're doubling down on the need to impeach campaign. that wasn't a tactic that is an ongoing campaign where we feel very strongly we need to get rid of this dangerous and unfit president. >> but tom, you're a good businessman, obviously. you've made a lot of money in business. you're a smart guy. clearly you're a political realist. you know this house of representatives that is genuflecting before trump, the speaker of the house talking about his leadership, since you know they are not going to impeach donald trump no matter what the public says, you ran those ads on fox news. so there is something else going on here. this was partly about building your political organization, right? >> i think that is not right, joy. we are insincere in this. and i think you've got to look back in history to how
impeachment really works. because if you look back what impeachment means, it's a very serious endeavor. it means getting rid of the elected president of the united states. and that cannot happen without the knowledge and the intent and the will of the american people. if you look at richard nixon, it was a two and a half year process before he resigned, leading up to what would have been his impeachment. it's not happening silently. it's not happening quickly. it's not happening behind closed doors or in the dead of night. this is a long educational process of the american people so that we all understand what's at stake, how bad the situation really is, and what we can do together to solve it. so anyone who thinks this is a short process or that we got into this on october 2017 thinking it would be over in 2018 doesn't read history accurately. the fact of the matter is this is all about the education and empowerment of the american people. and that's what we're doing. we're going directly to them.
>> all right. let's talk about what you're doing now with your next gen america was your original organization. now you have next gen rising. $30 million invested in this effort. you're in arizona, california, florida, michigan, new hampshire, pennsylvania and virginia. what is that towards? what are you looking to do in those states? >> well, let me say this, joy. once again, this is not new. we have been doing so-called millennial organizing for up to five years. what we're saying is that in the united states, the largest age cohort is the millennials. it's bugger than the boomers. and traditionally, they participate at extremely low levels in elections. so our goal, when you say is it registration, it is engagement, it is voter participation? it's all of the above. it's really an attempt to engage millennials whether they're in college or working or whatever, to engage them in the process,
to let them know how important their participation is, and to basically broaden our democracy. because we believe the answer to the crisis that we're in, that this administration and that rogue republican party have put us in is more democracy with a small d. broader participation, more people's voice being heard. that's our answer, and that's what we're trying to do in millennial organizing. >> we're very short on time. i'll quickly ask you. do you have any interest in running for president in 2020? >> we are 100% focused on november 6, 2018. you can't tell me, as smart as you are, joy, and i certainly can't tell you where we're going to stand the morning after the election in 2018. but i know this. we're going to be in a substantially different place one way or the other. and we're absolutely determined this is the first step towards getting rid of this rogue administration and this rogue
party that is trying to take us backwards and is working anti-threatcally to the interests of the american people. >> all right, tom steyer. >> appreciate it. ahead, why oprah 2020 may not be such a crazy idea. we'll look at that and who else may take on trump ahead. plus, the art of the pander in thing 1, thing 2 tonight. that's what you like, right?
thing 1 tonight. in his speech today at the american farm bureau federation, donald trump let the crowd know just how lucky they are. >> oh are you happy you voted for me. you are so lucky that i gave you that privilege. the other choice wasn't going to work out too well for the farmers. >> wow. then trump made an unabashed attempt to curry favor, by telling the crowd he would give them exactly what they wanted, unless of course they don't want it.
>> i'm looking forward to working with congress to pass the farm bill on time so that it delivers for all of you. and i support a bill that includes crop insurance, unless you don't want me to. [ applause ] >> it's an all too familiar scene for trump, playing to the crowd and ingratiating himself to whoever is in front of him by saying stuff he thinks they'll like. in a word, pandering. and it's not just for crop insurance. we'll hop on the pander express in thing 2 in 60 seconds.
most politicians do some degree of pandering. but donald trump is on a whole another level. like when he live polled the evangelical student body at liberty university to make sure he was pandering effectively. >> as i hear this is a major theme right here. but 2 corinthians, right? 2 corinthians, 3:17. that's the whole ball game. where the spirit of the lord,
right? where the spirit of the lord is, there is liberty. and here there is liberty college. but liberty university. but it is so true. you know, when you think, and that's really -- is that the one? is that the one you like? i think that's the one you like, because i loved it. >> lordy. or this appeal to the crowd at the american israel public affairs committee. >> i love the people in this room. i love israel. i love israel. my daughter ivanka is about to have a beautiful jewish baby. >> but here is the thing about shameless pandering. you have to know a few basic fax. for instance, if you try pandering to penn state students by praising their long-time football coach joe paterno you probably should know joepa is no longer with us. >> i know -- i know a lot about pennsylvania, and it's great. how's joe paterno? are we going bring that back, right?
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pay nothing out-of-pocket. talk to your doctor and visit botox®cmsavings.com to enroll. we all know that the press is under siege these days. but we also know that it is the insatiable dedication to uncovering the absolute truth that keeps us from turning a blind eye to corruption and to injustice. [ applause ] to tyrants and victims and secrets and lies. i want to say that i value the press more than ever before as we try to navigate these complicated times. >> oprah winfrey gave a speech yesterday at the golden globes that ignited speculation that the media mogul and actual billionaire is weighing a run for the white house. >> in 1944, recy taylor was a
young wife and a mother. she was just walking home from a church service she'd attended when she was abducted and raped and left blindfolded by the side of the road. for too long women have not been heard or believed if they dared to speak their truth to the power of those men. but their time is up. is up. >> but a 2020 campaign isn't just speculation. brian stelter tweeted i'm told by oprah's close friends that she is actively thinking about running for president in 2020. in a long-time statement, graham said she would run. she says she has no intention of running for president in 2020 but the age of donald trump, is the president of oprah that far-fetched? that's coming up, next.
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hardly the first. in the united states fame has a long history as a primary vehicle for stardom including for election to the white house. christina greer is a fellow for poverty policy and research at new york university and msnbc michael steele is former chairman of the rnc. let memy theory. we overlook the fact that fame is always something americans have looked for. you think of andrew jackson. he was famous for the war of 1812. he was probably the most famous american of the time. that's why he was able to get himself in front of the electret and abraham lincoln, some with one term in the congress, two years and he was able to propel himself. you go to a kennedy who had the hollywood glamor. this is the way american votes, ronald reagan, hello. >> ronald reagan. >> why is oprah an absurd idea
using fame as a vehicle to get into politics. >> we know this country has a problem with black people and women so she's the quintessential black woman. i have thoughts why i don't think it's a great idea. oprah is way more qualified than donald trump. she's an actual billionaire, which he is not. she reads, which he does not. she actually has a positive view of this country and worked her way up from nothing to become something which donald trump hasn't. she's his daddy. we have to think about a lot of thought pieces being written by men first of all who are like it's absurd and she shouldn't be. my issue is why aren't we looking to the bench of the democratic women there. there are some black women across the country, you know, you had many on your show. someone like stacy abrahms that will hopefully become the first black female governor in the united states in georgia. why are we putting money and energy behind that?
why aren't we cultivating talent in the house or mayors that could become governors and build a pipeline? it's like a lazy shortcut, she's our big sister. she's not, actually. we really need to think about people who are in the government pipeline. i don't think she would be a failure. i think donald trump is a failure. i think oprah would seeper seed donald trump in ways we can't imagine. we have to imagine there are many times we look at mayors across the country, often times black mayors and female mayors are brought in when white men destroyed everything. we need someone that's part of this institution -- >> first black presidents do that, as well. i think barack obama did that. >> there are -- go on. >> i was going to say, a brother did bring the republican party back. i don't know.
>> he did help y'all out. he gave you a narrative for something to run against to put the anti obama, that would be donald trump. >> i was talking about me, i wasn't talking about obama. >> you did it, brother. it is interesting, michael, in temples of the ways democrats and republicans thick about what qualifies someone for power. george w. bush was able to ride because he was a bush. i can have a beer with him. you have that type for men. you have bill clinton. nobody knew what he did as governor of arkansas. they just knew he played the sax on the hall. a woman that runs a successful business that's a billionaire and runs an organization far more legitimate but default she's a famous celebrity, she's set aside. >> i would agree much with the professor on that point because
the reality of it is this is a new era for women in many respects. we've elected women before. they have been governors of the states in the senate. they have run for president. i don't think americans have taken women seriously when it comes to having an owning power and then being able to use that power to advance themselves because remember, they have always advanced their spouse. they have always advanced someone else. i think the idea of looking at your bench and i say this to my own party, look at the republican women who are on the sidelines, they should be the ones out in front. they should be the ones that we should have engaged in the conversation when we're talking about the important order of issues of the day and we don't do that. it cuts across both lines and i think this -- the excitement about this election cycle oprah not with standing is what women do based on what we've seen them do in alabama, virginia and elsewhere. >> very quickly --
>> we need to remember, also, that white women have a long history of voting republican when it comes to the presidential election. we can't get excited because we have a woman at the top of the ticket. >> that didn't work last time. >> white women don't vote for the democratic candidate. >> thank you very much. appreciate you guys joining me. that's "all in" for this evening.