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tv   MSNBC Live With Katy Tur  MSNBC  January 25, 2018 11:00am-12:00pm PST

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welcome back. it is transcript time. senator chuck grassley says his committee will release all the interviews they've done linked to the trump tower meeting including the one with don junior. now it's time for the public to see it for themselves. >> it shouldn't be big news because we always said we're for transparency. there's still a couple that have to go through what we already have. and if he's the last one and we've interviewed everybody we can get, then the public ought
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to know. >> what do you know about that trump tower meeting? did it raise any concerns from what you learned from the witnesses that you have spoken with? >> i don't think i want to answer that. i think we'll wait until it's and you be let the public analyze it for themselves. >> let the public decide. don junior met with an attorney in the summer of 2016 after she offered him dirt on hillary clinton. the e-mail setting up the meeting were pretty simplicity. a former business partner to donald trump told don junior, quote, the crown prosecutor of russia met with his father this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate hillary and her dealings with russia. and would be very useful to your father. don junior applied within minutes, if it is what you say, i love it, especially later in the summer. the transcripts will be the first time the public gets to hear exactly how don junior
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explains himself under bipartisan questioning. although we should note he was not under oath. still, there's one potential witness we won't be hearing from. to this date jared kushner had not agreed to meet with the senate judiciary committee and the panel now admits it's given up trying to get him. let's get to our team of reporters. first we have breaking news isolate the justice department. they say they the found missing texts between two fbi officials. their disappearance has been labored a conspiracy by some republicans. joining us is pete williams in our washington newsroom. pete, are were they recovered? >> the inspector general says it was using a forensic technique. doesn't explain anything more than that. these are text messages that were sent between lisa page and peter strzok who were two people that had been working on the mueller investigation. and they were sent between december of last year and then
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for a five-month period after that. we don't know how many text messages were recovered and we don't know whether the inspector general knows how many were sent. maybe it's an unknowable question but they obviously recovered a number of them. what the inspector general says is he will turn these over to the justice department officials. and then it'll be up to justice department officials whether they send them on to congress. so far the justice department has been sharing these messages if they think they are in any way relevant to what the committees want to know, which is what they say about the hillary clinton e-mail investigation or the mueller investigation, and it's been redacting what they describe as strictly personal messages between the two. presumely they will be sending these to the congress as well. we don't know how many are involved. the inspector general's letter says he'll continue to try to get more. how will he know when he has them all, that's a good
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question. but it's fascinating they've been able to recover some. >> if they do give them to congress, will it be up to congress to release them to the public? >> yes, but i think you can count on that. >> no doubt about that. pete williams in our washington bureau. thank you very much. in just a few moments we'll speak with michael caputo. first, let's get to the rest of our reporters and that story we talked about off the top, that don junior transcript. kasie hunt is on capitol hill and betsy woodruff is also with us. casey, senator grassley says this should not be a surprise. should we have expected to see these transcripts? >> i think the senate judiciary committee has seemed more open to releasing the transcripts in the connections of their investigation into russian influence in the 2016 election, more so than some of the intelligence committees,
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although we've seen some of that come out of the house intelligence committee as well. i do think there's been a lot of back and forth and consternation over selective leaking of either portions of interviews or characterization of what was said. in some cases there have been witnesses who said i really want this to come out into the public, but the don junior one is significant for all the reasons that you pointed out, that he is so close and such a lynch pin in the context of trying to understand this meeting that happened at trump tower. these committees have very carefully trying to talk to every person who was there or involved in setting it up to try to reconstruct everything at or around it and figure out if there's additional threads to pull on. k clearly this is something that
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there's a lot of interest in here. perhaps don junior made a mistake that could eventually become an important part of the story line. it's impossible to know at this stage what sort of information we maybe able to glean from this that's different from where we already are. but, again, i think there was some pressure from the witnesses themselves for this to come out. >> let's go back to when we first learned about this meeting. it exploded in the press. it was one of those things that if you're asking if there was any attempts or work between the trump campaign and anyone in russia to try to influence the election, you could point out this meeting and say, look, don junior got on simplicity note from somebody in russia or someone purporting to have someone from russia with russian information, russian dirt on hillary clinton coming from a different foreign power, not an ally of the u.s. and don junior saying, i love it, especially for later in the summer. later in the summer we got all
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those wikileaks and that's when those started to really hit and donald trump seized on them and rallied his base against hillary clinton. this was a big deal when we found out about it. to get these transcripts, betsy, what could we possibly learn that we don't already know from this meeting? >> it's possible we'll learn more details about the way the meeting got set up, about the way don junior was connected to some of these russian and russian-linked characters who initially pitched him on having the idea of the meeting. i certainly would expect we'll be able to learn how the meeting itself went and if there was any additional follow-up. that said, one important thing to keep in mind is that the investigation has been really unusual. while the senate intel and the house intel committees have stayed largely focused on the russia question, the senate judiciary committee actually has
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taken a weirdly different lens, one staffer for chuck grassley who shares that committee told me several months ago their investigation was hardly even focused on russia at all and instead was looking at potential wrong doing by the fbi or the justice department as part of the committee's routine oversight. additionally, some republicans on the senate judiciary committee concluded based on their investigation that christopher steele who wrote that controversial -- they referred it for prosecution. one thing i'll be interested in seeing when this transcript comes out is to what extent are republicans and democrats remotely on the same page as far as what questions they really had for don junior. >> it'll be interesting to see what democrats ask him and what republicans ask him. what this the point of these hearings right now? we have robert mueller looking into this. the congressional hearings seem
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to devolve in bickering. why do this? >> katy in theory they have different missions than robert mueller. this is not a criminal prosecution type of situation. instead these committees are attempting to look into what russian efforts to influence american elections. and i think one of the frustrations for some of the more middle of the road members of congress and members who've been russia hawks for many years is that has gotten very lost and i think it's been very hard to get members to focus. senator marco rubio, to his credit, was one of the only republicans who, during the 2016 campaign, went out and said, hey, stop crowing about the fact that hillary clinton is in the
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cross hairs on this right now. remember that someday down the line it could be republicans. it's not as though russians are necessarily partisan. they have an agenda that's focused on what russia is trying to achieve and one day that be to our detriment. and we know his campaign at one point, one of his senate campaigns was the focus of some of these efforts. and so he sits on the senate intelligence committee. i think that's still what these committees are trying to accomplish. achieving that has become harder and harder. >> ladies, thank you very much. president trump says he's looking forward to talking with robert mueller under oath, but a new op-ed in the "new york times" is looking how statements the president and his campaign officials have made to the media were later proven false. ryan goodman joins us to help us see through the fog in the mueller/russia probe. we have a lot of strands that come out on a day-to-day basis,
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incremental. it gets hard to remember what happened when and where the truth is. >> right. i think one of the difficulties is actually trying to break through fog and see not just the moments in which trump campaign officials lied to the media, which i think we well understand, but also when they lied to federal officials because that's when they were getting themselves into legal jeopardy. if you look at the count, it's actually six trump campaign officials, five are clearly senior officials who seem to have lied to either fbi or congress, not including paul manafort and rick gates. big question then is, why were they all lying? was it a joint agreement or at a understanding? >> you served on the special counsel to the general counsel at the department of defense when you have these conflicting
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statements, what does that mean for the mueller probe? how does that play into their investigation? >> so one thing that's noticeable about the mueller probe is that all four of the either guilty pleas include false statements. you can lie to the media, and it's not a crime, but you lie to one of those federal officials or bodies, and it's a crime. the the big question is mueller is about to interview the president probably, obstruction of justice i think is on everybody's mind. >> yesterday when donald trump was talking to reporters, he was asked about obstruction and whether or not he's done so in regards to the russia investigation. he said no, no, no obstruction and he is fighting back. fighting back, what does that mean? >> it's difficult to know what it means. sounds like in a certain sense he is recklessly admitting to
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some of the facts because he's saying what i did is fought back. some people would call that obstruction. he's addressing something i did, do some people are going to classify that as obstruction, they should. if i was his counsel that's the last thing i would want him to say. >> what has piqued your interest? >> not just focusing on the single players but i why did they all do it. if they did it, it's a big question because it means not just people who already lied to federal officials but anyone who encouraged them to do so which could lead all the way up to the president. that was the downfall for the nixon white house where in the white house nixon is encouraging associates to commit perjury. if there's anything like that going on within a senior part of the trump campaign, i think that would be a bombshell.
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>> ryan goodman, thank you very much for joining us. turning a text into a talking point. we'll see how the president, lawmakers and conservative media allies are questioning the fbi ice credibility, but to what end? was really easy. easy. that'd be nice. phone: for help with chairs, say "chair." phone: for help with bookcases, say "bookcase." bookcase. i thought this was the dresser? isn't that the bed? phone: i'm sorry, i didn't understand. phone: for help with chairs, say "chair." does this mean we're not going out? book-case. see how easy renters insurance can be at geico.com.
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. as mueller's investigation inches closer to the white house, some republicans are try to cast doubt on the agency itself, but the cracks are
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starting to crumble. they seized on a text exchange between peter strzok and lisa page referring to a secret society. lawmakers had claimed it was proof off the law enforcement agency's anti-trump bias. now at least one of them admits it may have been just a joke. here's senator ron johnson talking with nbc news moments ago. >> after reading those transcripts of the text messages, do you think it was made as a joke? >> it's entirely possible. we'll see what the next text -- >> do you owe an apology, sir? >> republicans were also up in arms about the fbi failing to retain five months of additional text messages between the two officials. some insisted that too was a conspiracy to hide the former lovers' unflattering exchanges. now we learn that was only a technical glitch and the text messages have been recovered. enter devin nunes having a
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claim. fisa helped expose conversations with the russia ambassador. releasing the memo would be reckless, he says. the top democrat on the house intel committee slammed nunes and his actions earlier. >> he is attempt to go tar the entire intelligence community, fbi bob mueller investigation in order to once again protect the president. it's a terrible disservice as well as a terrible distraction. >> joining me is michael caputo. good to see you. >> hey, katy, how are you doing? >> what do you think of this secret society that ron johnson raised only to later admit it was probably a joke? >> i don't know. i think in text messages between a mistress is and her boyfriend, what they're trying to hide from their spouses can go into all
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kinds of hyperboly. what it is and which comment is a joke? i don't know. but i can tell you this. when i heard that these text messages were missing, i was very excited because it gave me an opportunity to tell investigators that all my texts and e-mails are available except for those that went out between june 16th, 2015 and january 20th, 2017, because my dog ate those. >> they found those text messages, so that's a bit of a moot issue? >> i found mine too. my dog threw them up, which is probably what happened at the fbi too. >> don't you feel like republicans in order to take apart the fbi right now are really grasping for straws? >> i don't know. i look at some of the texts between those two people. >> two people who are having an
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affair talking to each other in private. i mean, no one's saying any fbi investigators are not allowed to have opinions about politics. their opinions just can't color what they do. if there's evidence the opinions color what they do, then that is a real problem. >> and that's the evidence we're looking for. >> robert mueller took them off the investigation, so they're not even there any longer. so are you saying -- as a donald trump supporter, are you saying that anybody who doesn't support the president or think negatively of him or might say something to somebody in a personal conversation that is not flattering of the president that they can't be fair? >> i wouldn't say that. i think people have a right to their own opinions in politics. but people at the head of these investigations, at the deputy level, they have to be chosen very carefully. as you know, as an attorney, you can donate in america to the campaign of a judge. so the legal profession doesn't have the concerns of hiring
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someone who donated to a campaign of an opponent of the person you're investigating. but katy some of this stuff that's going on, it's really concerning to me. i'm trying to keep an open mind. i've known fbi agents and i've worked with them throughout my career. i'm concerned because it turns out it might have been redundant if donald trump turned russia. we're turning to russia ourselves. >> who are you calling the going kgb, michael? >> the people who deserve to be exposed. >> people in the fbi are actually part of the kgb? >> come on. i was being facetious, as you know. it's funny how the jokes told between these two lovers are hilarious you to at msnbc. >> but they were private messages to each other.
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you are on national television and you are saying people in the fbi are act like the kgb. some republicans are loyal to donald trump, the president himself, and a lot of folks outside who are coming on tv to defend the president, instead of defending him on merits, you're saying the fbi is corrupt and the fbi is working in this conspiracy to take down the president. members of the fbi are acting more like the kgb. i mean, that is radical thing to say on national television? >> absolutely, it was a joke which i was hoping you laughed at like the fbi texts. at the same time i'm telling you you what's going on is very concerning. and i believe we need to investigate this completely and fully. i believe they should release the memo that was written by the majority at the house intelligence committee and see where those apples fall. we should investigate what's
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going on. there should be a special counsel to look into them as well. the criticism of the special counsel you're hearing today, and the special counsel investigation of the bush white house, this is politics as your back, katy. and wringing your hands over this is a bit over the top. >> politics as usual. seems kind of sad. michael caputo, thank you. next, trump took his america first message overseas. how is it sitting with world leaders? we're at davos where he met with israel prime minister benjamin netanyahu. >> come say hello to our voters. >> you're cnn. >> i'm with msnbc now. thanks for watching. good to see you, sir. needles.
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president trump just talked to c nbc on the sidelines of the world economic forum in davos. >> i tell you where i stand.
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which ultimately is very important. number one i don't like talking about because, frankly, nobody should be talking about it. it should be based on the strength of the country. we are doing so well. our country is becoming so economically again and strong in other ways too, by the way, that the dollar is going to get stronger and stronger. and ultimately i want to see a strong dollar. >> at this hour the president is at dinner with european business leaders. but earlier he met with british prime minister theresa may and benjamin netanyahu, touting his relationship with both leaders. but theti"thetime" magazine cov. ali, donald trump, his cabinet is there, so is a large portion of congressional leaders including house majority leader
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kevin mccarthy. what's america getting out of this big footprint out in davos? >> reporter: two things. there's some confusion coming up. the president is saying he wants a strong dollar. steve mnuchin did say otherwise. the bottom line is he did say otherwise. the president's right. it's very nontraditional for treasury secretaries to even talk about the dollar. the dollar's gone down as a result of mnuchin's comments. but fundamentally, kevin mccarthy and the other congressional leaders, bob corker, they came early and they've been having a ton of meetings. i can't verify what they say is going on in those meetings, but as i suspected, the idea the president was going to harsh on world leaders was probably going to be softened a lot and it does seem in the meetings the president and rosary having with world and business leaders, may be a friendlier tone.
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>> we are allies. a lot of american tax dollars go to defend on their missile defense. we should have a fair trade limit. and i think allies can look at that. i sat in a meeting today with all these foreign leaders and i heard prime minister of other countries stand up and say, you know what, as nato, we need to pay more of our fair share that, america's been carrying us for too long. that to me is a positive. some of that's breaking through. it's not like they're going to go alone. it's made a stronger bond with them now. >> reporter: i don't know. i wasn't in those meetings and i don't know everybody's saying that. but i think world leaders are being nicer and america is being more mellow. >> what do you think that is, ali? >> reporter: i think it's the way it goes around here. there's nothing but flags here. this is all about and unity
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kumbaya. you can't come to somebody's party and kick the punchbowl over. i think president trump had to say eight talk tough and it's america first. when you get down to brass tacks, this is how you are. not as much tough talk as everybody is prepared for. >> i have richard hoss on my other monitor laughing at your kick the punchbowl comments. joining us is richard haass. i presume ali made you laugh there. you got a new article out in ti"time" entitled what the glob elite can learn from donald trump. you're also the author of a world in disarray. now in paper back. richard, tell me, what can the
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world learn from donald trump? >> i think the most important thing is there are a lot of people who are insecure. they don't see globalization as good and see it as threatening. their jobs are disappearing and they fear that they will. so there's real concern about the president and the future. the davos crowd is 1% of the 1% in many cases, and i think what donald trump can bring to them is the sense that, hey, for a lot of people whether it's right or wrong, they feel that the world is not working for them. >> what about the president himself? what can he take away from a meeting like this? he had been influenced by these anti-globalists in his administration, steve bannon now is gone, though. probably horrified at donald trump going to davos. in your article you write trump needs to understand globalization is many dimensions, not a choice, but a reality. the u.s. can at a significant cost, close its borders to
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people and trade, but it cannot wall off the country from computer viruses or greenhouse gases and the effects of climate change. >> i think two things. i'm hoping he hears positive things about immigration and trade. mr. trump has repeatedly scapegoated both of them, immigration and trade for job loss and other problems in the country. for the most part it's not true. the real threat is new technologies, artificial intelligence, robotics and the rest. maybe he will understand that he needs to focus on that. that's the real train coming down the track against the united states worker and the economy. and i think secondly, we can't be a giant gated community. we live in this world, like it or not, and we're going to have affected by terrorists or north korean missiles or climate change. united states can't solve these problems unilaterally. it's got to partner with others.
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that's beginning of a serious conversation. >> he said he would be open to potentially joining tpp under better conditions, under better negotiation conditions for the u.s. what do you think? is it a good idea for the u.s. to join tpp or is it a better idea for the u.s. to try to work around it? >> it's not even a close one. of course it's better for us to join it. we want to race to the top, not a race to the bottom in terms of trade. we don't want to leave asia for china to pick on smaller, weaker neighbors. i'm not going to sit here and say tpp is perfect, but it does represent an improvement. if mr. trump would say i'll join if we address other issues. china is not a member of it. but pressure to transfer technology or other such issues or government subsidies, i don't think we should be against if you would tpp 2.0. but we have to get inside the
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tent. and the idea of staying outside tpp or leaving a number of tnaf steps. >> news out of davos was the president talking about the palestinians saying they don't sit down and try to negotiate peace, the u.s. was going to cut funding. >> again, bad idea. we didn't help the prospects of negotiating by the unilateral declaration of jestrusalem as t capital. we ought to have given something for the palestinians if we were going to do it. so right now we have to really approve to the palestinians that we're prepared to be fair minded and a legitimate negotiator. and i think the pressure is as much on us to cut off aid, that has a humanitarian penalty. if we cut off aid, there will be more palestinian moderates. we have to start playing the
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which he is game several moves ahead. >> richard haass, a man who never kicked over a punchbowl at a party. one day he's in, and one day he's out. where does the president stand right now on daca, for instance? we're live on capitol hill where talks are toufrts reach a deal to protect d.r.e.a.m.ers. if yor crohn's symptoms are holding you back, and your current treatment hasn't worked well enough, it may be time for a change.
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not in this house. 'cause that's no average family. that's your family. which is why you didn't grab just any cheese. you picked up kraft mozzarella with a touch of philadelphia for lasanyeah! kraft. family greatly. we want to do a great job with daca. i think it's our issue. i think it's a better issue for
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the republicans than for the democrats. >> do you want citizenship for d.r.e.a.m.ers? >> we're going to morph into it. it's going to happen. >> what does that mean, morph into it? >> over a period of 10 to 12 years. somebody does a great job, they've worked hard, it gives incentive to do a great job. >> yesterday the commander in chief did about 180 on the future of the d.r.e.a.m.ers. days after rejecting a bipartisan plan, he said he would be open for a path to citizenship for them. if white house is expected to roll out a new immigration framework on monday. a group of bipartisan lawmakers met on the hill today. republican senator marco rubio updated reporters on their efforts to reach a bipartisan deal on immigration reform. >> the starting point that deals with daca and the border, and then we're going to have a debate about if you add citizenship, what do you need to put with that. if you want to lower the backlog on immigration, what do you add
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to that. there's a strong consensus to ensure a legal status for people on daca now and scour our border and enforce immigration laws. >> joining us is leigh ann caldwell. you're wearing the same glasses as casey today. let's get to the news. this bipartisan meeting, who was in it and what else do we know about it? >> katy, there was about two dozen members today at the meeting. what they talked about was what they could potentially come to an agreement on as far as immigration is concerned. these aren't necessarily the people who are going to be leading the talks coming up with what a bill will definitely look like, but these are the people who are critical to get anything through the senate. this is a massive group of people. a quarter of the senate, sometimes even more who shows up to these meetings, if the gnat
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really wants to pass a daca bill with the support of 70 members, they're going to need the consensus of a lot of people. senator marco rubio came out of that meeting as others did, and they said the path forward might be something really narrow to start with. and then let the senate work its will. and then it can go from there. they say it's a lot easier to add to a bill through amendments rather than put forward a big, massive bill and then try to strip it down. there's still a lot of talks right now. people are waiting to see what president donald trump says in his proposal, which is supposed to come out monday. and until then, these talks are going to continue. but what donald trump says could change a lot, as we know up here. >> no doubt about that. i can't help but ask this question. the senate might come up with a bipartisan solution, but what does that mean if the house won't even take up a debate on
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the floor? >> the house is the big question mark here. the house is where legislation goes to die. it's happened multiple times before. as the house moves closer to the midterms, it's going to be even more difficult for house speaker paul ryan to bring up any immigration legislation. i know kevin mccarthy was on our air earlier and he refused to say if the speaker would bring up legislation without a majority of republicans, if he could only get a majority of democrats. that's not something that republicans want. that's probably not something that the president is going to want. so the house is definitely the factor here. i am pretty confident that the senate will be able to pass something. what it's going to look like, i don't know. but when it goes to the house, it's just all bets are off, katy. >> john kelly didn't go to davos in order to work on immigration.
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his meetings with lawmakers, what do we know about them? >> we don't know a lot yet. we do know he's been meeting with lawmakers for the past week and a half. he met with a congressional hispanic caucus and is part of this leadership meetings. he's making the rounds on capitol hill. he knows he's become one of the key players in the administration on this issue. he's the former department of homeland security secretary. so he knows this issue, but he's also conservative on this issue. so there's a lot of republicans who are skeptical -- democrats who are skeptical of his role here, katy. >> leigh ann caldwell, thank you very much. >> thank you. donald trump says he'll talk to robert mueller under oath, so when will the special counsel sit down with the commander in chief? the former chief of staff to james comey, chuck rosenberg joins me next. just like some people like pre-shaken sodas. having their seat kicked on an airplane. being rammed by a shopping cart.
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may cause low blood sugar. common side effects are nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, decreased appetite, indigestion, and constipation. side effects can lead to dehydration, which may cause kidney problems. change the course of your treatment. ask your doctor about victoza®. we know robert mueller wants to talk to president trump. but does president trump want to talk to robert mueller? well, depends on when you ask. >> would you be willing to speak under oath to give your version -- >> 100%. >> if mueller muffler wanted to speak with you -- >> i'd be glad to.
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>> we'll see what happens. certainly i'll see what happens. when they have no collusion and nobody's found any collusion at any level, it seems unlikely you would have an interview. >> are you going to talk to mueller? >> i'm forward to it actually. >> to reach a higher standard, you would do it under oath? >> oh, i would do it under oath, absolutely. >> the president added yesterday that the special counsel interview could take place in the next two to three weeks. as quickly as the president made those comments, white house counsel to donald trump, ty cobb, walked them back, at least a bit. he told nbc news the president was speaking to reporters hurriedly before leaving for davos. in those remarks the president expressed his complete cooperation with mueller. the terms are still being negotiated by mr. trump's personal lawyers. chuck rosenberg served as the chief of staff to fbi director james comey and is an msnbc contributor. chuck, thank you very much for being here. >> pleasure. >> the president yesterday when he was talking about no obstruction, he said something
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very specific and i want to play that sound bite and get your reaction on the other side. >> everybody says no collusion. there's no collusion. now they're saying, oh, well, did he fight back, fight back? >> fight back? >> you fight back. oh, it's obstruction. >> first of all, everybody is not saying no collusion. most lawmakers are saying they're still looking to see if there was any collusion. that's certainly what robert mueller is looking into. secondly, donald trump saying fighting back, fighting back was obstruction. i'm still trying to figure out what exactly he means by that. is it asking mccabe who he voted for? is it firing james comey? >> well, it seems rhetorical, katy. look, you're welcome to make legal arguments, you're welcome to make factual arguments, but obstruction of justice is quite different. it's neither of those things. it's attempting to impede and obstruct an investigation. and so if you fired comey, for instance, because of the, quote
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unquote, russia thing, that could be obstruction of justice. >> donald trump has done a number of depositions in his life. we all know this. he's been in a lot of lawsuits. there was one that happened during the campaign where an attorney was talking to him about the trump university lawsuit and they pressed him on this. they said a claim he made to me actually, i was a reporter a month earlier, that he had the world's greatest memory. trump responded i had a good memo memory. the reporter responds with the best memory in the world and he said it to me. trump answered i don't remember saying that. as good as my memory is, i don't remember that but i have a good memory. in that deposition he said i don't remember 35 times during the testimony. does that sort of thing fly with the special counsel? >> well, look, there are innocent times when you don't remember something. it happens to all of us. but the special counsel is going to have lots and lots of stuff
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with him. he's going to have documents, he's going to have e-mails, he's going to have the testimony of other people. and so i don't remember might work a couple of times. there's always times we don't remember stuff, katy. but it's not going to work over and over again. at a certain point if all you say is i don't remember, it looks like you're trying to hide something. >> what's the difference between a deposition in a civil trial and facing robert mueller? >> well, great question. so important distinction. depositions are for civil matters, right. you run over my foot with your car in a parking lot and i sue you and we depose a whole bunch of people. there are no depositions by and large in criminal cases. these are interviews. it's either done in a conference room by mueller and his agents and prosecutors, or it will be done in a grand jury under oath in front of members of the grand jury. so if it's the latter, if it's in a grand jury, there's no lawyer there to help mr. trump.
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if it's in an interview, he could have his lawyers with him. but the whole thing is going to be run by the investigators and the prosecutors. they're very, very different environments. >> chuck rosenberg, chuck, thank you very much. >> pleasure. >> coming up right after the break, we've got one more thing. so that's the idea. what do you think? i don't like it. oh. nuh uh. yeah. ahhhhh. mm-mm. oh. yeah. ah. agh. d-d-d... no. hmmm. uh... huh. yeah. uh... huh. in business, there are a lot of ways to say no.
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i will not quit on them and i will not quit on myself. we will not let people like him
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win, and we will not live in fear. >> one more thing before we go. arizona mom jovanna was shot in the head during the shooting on the vegas strip that killed 58 people in october. today after months of therapy and rehab, she's finally going home. but also today just a few miles from the shooting that forced her to relearn how to walk, talk and eat on her own again, the nra is holding day three of the world's largest firearms industry expo. there has been virtually no action on capitol hill regarding gun control despite the 1,500 mass shootings we've seen since the sandy hook massacre in 2012. this week we saw the nation's 11th high school shooting this year, the second just this week. remember, it's only january. monday a 15-year-old girl was shot and killed in texas. her teenage classmate is accused of the crime. tuesday, it happened again at a
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high school in kentucky. two 15-year-olds murdered, 18 others hurt. this "l.a. times" headline sums it up. another school shooting, ho-hum says america. what is going on here? is this okay now? are we as americans now okay with kids killing kids? is it even a question that's worth asking anymore? after all, it seems like we've gotten our answer. we've gotten it 1,500 times since sandy hook. that will wrap things up for me this hour. chris jansing picks it up right now. chris. >> i've been covering them since columbine, so let's even back it up to there, shall we? kids killing kids, thank you so much. we are following a very busy day of news from the economic forum in davos, switzerland, as well as washington where the halls of congress are buzzing with the talk of robert mueller's russia investigation as well as possible progress toward an immigration deal.
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good afternoon, i'm chris jansing in for ali velshi who will join us in just a minute from davos. right now president trump is having dinner with european business leaders as he wraps up his first day at the world economic forum in davos. take a look, here he is arriving earlier today. you can see the stunning alpine view from just outside davos this morning as marine one prepared to land. president trump was immediately greeted by reporters and world leaders as he takes his america first message on the road. >> i already am, look. you take a look. you tell me. >> the prime minister and myself have had a really great relationship, although some people don't necessarily believe that, but i can tell you i have a tremendous respect for the prime minister and the job she's doing. we have discussions going with israel on many things, including trade. but the big move

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