tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC January 26, 2018 4:00pm-5:00pm PST
upset that the somebody cod have influenced the elections and any part we have played we want to understand it, fix it, we have more elections coming. we're all working hard at it. >> that exclusive conversations airs this sunday 9:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc. "hardball" starts right now. >> you're fired! let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. when in doubt, donald trump does what he does best. >> you're fired. >> nbc news has confirmed the bombshell "new york times" reporting that president trump ordered the firing last june of robert s. mueller but ultimately backed down after the white house counsel threatened to resign rather than carry out the directive. according to "the new york
times," "mr. mueller learned about the episode in recent months as his investigators interviewed current and senior former white house officials. before heading home from davos this morning, president trump disputed the report. >> mr. president, why did you fire robert mueller? why would you want to fire robert mueller? >> fake news, folks, fake news. typical "new york times" fake story. >> the report has been confirmed by nbc news, "the washington post," cnn, "the wall street journal," even fox news. it does raise troubling questions. is it obstruction or at least part of a pattern of obstruction to do what he did and where are republicans? hasn't the president crossed a line here? >> will trump try to do it again. if he was willing to before, why not now when it appears the investigation is sniffing close e er and closer to trump. then there's the question of
honesty. if the reporting it true by multiple news organizations, president trump wasn't telling the truth, was he, when he said this last august. >> mr. president you thought about or considered leading to the dismissal of the special counsel. is there anything bob mueller could do that would accepted you in that direction? >> i've been reading about it from you people. i'm not dissing anybody. i want them to get on with the task. >> michael schmidt is the one who obviously broke that story last night, "the new york times" reporter and msnbc national security contributor. paul butler is a former prosecutor and jennifer ruben an opinion writer for "the washington post" also a political analyst. michael, give us a sense of the tick-tock when trump fired and did he effectively by his lights fire mueller? >> it's june a month after mueller's an pointed a month after comey was fired. that had blown up in their faces. he goes to mcgahn and says look,
i think that mueller has these conflict of interest issues including the fact he was a member at one of my golf clubs and had a membership dispute. this was very concerning to mcgahn who obviously was willing to put his job on the line to try and stop it. >> those of us who obviously read about richard nixon read ms times where he would make orders like go blow up the brookings institution or break in and make it look like a democrat job. is this one of those cases where the president twaeshl gave an order, wanted it carried out, wanted mueller gone and in the next couple hours mcgahn got the word back to him no. >> i think it may have played out over several days as the president pestered him to try to get him to do this and mcgahn made it clear that he was willing to resign over this and
the president ultimately backed down off of this. there's a long-standing thought amongst folks at the white house, if you can distract the president for a certain amount of time, he will find something to fixate his attention on. >> given this new reporting trump ordered mueller's firing last june, look at the events leading up to it. january 27th at a private dipper at the white house, president trump tells comey i need loyalty, i expect loyalty. february 14th also according to comey, president trump tells the fbi director to letting flynn go. march 22nd, trump asked mike pompeo and dan coats to intervene with comey to get them to drop the flynn probe all together. that was first reported by "the washington post." also that march last march, according to "the new york times," donald trump "erupted in anger when jeff sessions recused himself from the russian
investigation. he needs his attorney general to protect him." then on may 9th, trump fires comey. the next day he tells lester holt the decision had to do with the russian investigation. jennifer? >> he has tried over and over again to decapitate this investigation. what he doesn't realize of course, could you fire all these people and the investigation would still go on. that's a misnomer in his own mind. he clearly has tried again and again to interfere, to obstruct and what you're seeing is a pattern. no one of these is perhaps sufficient for a prosecutor or even the american public. but when you see a persistent pattern time and time geb in the same vein. he tried to feel out mccabe, as well is, andrew mccabe, yelled at him his wife had been receiving campaign donations. >> yelled at him. >> right. peeved with him. you know, then he wants him fired. christopher wray won't do it. he wants lots of people fired. remember he didn't have the nerve to fire comey face-to-face. he sent his body man to do it
and give him the note. >> paul, there's such a watergate echo here. nixon fired archibald koch, then got leon jaworski. admittedly cox certainly had a political background which was democrat but clearly trump seems to think, i'll check back with michael on this, he seems to think his worse enemy is bob mueller. >> his worst enemy is donald trump. michael's reporting has teed up a question that mueller will ask trump that could lead to trump's removal from office. the question is, robert mueller to trump, did you try to get me fired. if trump answers no, that's perjury. he's going down. if he answers yes, that's obstruction or at least strong corroboration of his criminal intent to impede the investigation. >> michael, let's talk about the reporting here because i love the background. does trump, donald trump the man, fear bob mueller the man? >> i think that he recognizes that mueller is an existential
threat to his presidency and that not only is this something about russian collusion and questions of ties between his campaign and russia, but it is also something thatting is focused squarely on his time in office. the interactions with mcgahn, the efforts to influence sessions, why he fired comey. he is incredibly frustrated with the russia question but also realizes there's all of these matters about his time in office that are being examined. >> talk more about trump the way he looks at life. people always project. here's donald trump who obviously talks about mexican judges being out to get him because it has something to do with mexico potentially. then he thinks mccabe is it out get him because his wife was a democrat and got help down in richmond. he's always assuming somebody is up to something for their own interests. what does he think mueller's doctors are? >> he may think mueller loves
the fbi, believes in the fbi as an institution like the peace corps or the marines or the catholic church or something he believes in as' sistering reality that needs to be protected. here's a president fired comey, the head of the fbi because he's doing his job and says damn it, i'm stepping down here. is that what he sees in mueller? >> i think he sees that mueller and comey are very good friends and mueller is here to avenge what happened to comey. >> it's shakespearean. >> they worked together, know each other, but they're not best friends. they're not as close as the president -- >> so this isn't a vendetta. >> no, i don't think anybody would think bob mueller would lead an investigation to help a friend who obviously got fired. >> to be fair, no one would want one of the country's best prosecutors, robert mueller and 16 of his ace prosecutor friends and the world's best law enforcement agency, the fbi, looking at everything that you
have ever done. >> it's sanity on the part of trump, not paranoia. they are coming to get the truth and the truth is not going to set trump free. >> trump should be more worried about obstruction. he doesn't understand the law. he's clearly worried about money laundering and his financial trchs. that's a red line i think a line in the sand that mueller crosses that, all bets are off i think. >> that's exactly where i was going. he went through this experience in march with comey where he blew the world up. people were screaming that this was potentially obstruction. he learned nothing from that or he didn't believe it or doesn't think this is a crime or no one told him he couldn't do this. remember the way he keeps dropping phrases into his various speeches. i can do anything i want with the justice department. i choose not to. i can do anything i want. he thinks these people personally work for him. he sees them as loyal to him as the person. when they behave this way, off with their heads. >> according to "the new york
times" reporting, president trump argued mueller had three conflicts of interest. one a dispute years ago over fees at trump national golf club that prompted mr. muler to resign his membership. two, mueller had most recently worked for the law firm that previously represented the president's son-in-law jared kushner. three, mueller had been interviewed to return as fbi director the day before he was appointed special counsel. these are like what? these don't seem important. why did the president, he is the president, think he had to come up with these these crumbs of excuse? why didn't he just say i don't like the guy's looks and say i want to get rid of him? >> i think he realizes certainly after the comey firing he needs to have a good rationalization. >> this is a joke. >> this doesn't get you there. no legal expert will tell you that's strong enough to get someone strong enough from running an investigation. those are the best things he could come up.
>> why is this coming out now? bill crist, a conspiracy kind of guy himself wrote who obviously leaked this? probably white house council don mcgahn himself perhaps with ty cobb. why now? it's perfect. it's effect will be a negative reaction to firing mueller which may well mean trump recently returned to the idea and this is a desperate effort to stop him again. this is according to this, and i don't know how it squares with your trade craft, but somehow the people on the inside put this out to you guys at the times, they did it so they could prevent trump from doing what he tried to do before again. >> that it sound like our jobs are a lot easier than they are. >> we're just sitting therein at phone rings and they give it to us. >> you're the bird feeder. >> it's much more difficult than that. >> that doesn't square with your reporting. > my theory is it's a trial
balloon to see what if at this point trump does fire muler. >> who obviously put up the balloon. >> the republicans had not had the outrage to the report that i would have liked. >> who obviously do you think -- who is trying this balloon? >> trump or some of his people who obviously want want do see. >> i'm i think straight reporting and oh kim's razor. i think trump tried to fire mueller. that's what i think. >> my only other suggestion is mcgahn wants to say i'm innocent. i didn't obstruct justice. >> just a little comic relief, let's go to fox news. i don't like media criticism. here we go. last night when the news broke, your paper held it to about 9:30 to get the facts straight. trump's most loyal defendant sean hannity not a bad guy sometimes but lately seemed to beover taken by events as he tried to respond live over the course confident hour as the reality sunk in. he couldn't take the truth.
let's watch. >> now, tonight, for example, they're trying to change the story. at this hour, "the new york times" is trying to distract you. our sources and i've checked in with many of them they're not confirming that tonight. the president's attorney dismissed the story an says no, no comment, we're not going there. how many times has "the new york times" and others gotten it wrong? >> all right. so we have sources tonight just confirming to ed henry that yeah, maybe donald trump wanted to fire the special counsel for conflict. does he not have the right 0 raise those questions? you know, we'll deal with this tomorrow night. we have a shocking video. you see the red suv, high speed police chase? >> i'm sorry, i'm sorry. what a diversion tactic. that's what we've been doing all through the saga whenever the story gets close to this president's heart, they drag us into some other crazy -- by the way, couldn't even come up with a white bronco choicen a red
bronco. >> there's a legal expression, res ipsa loc question tore. the thing speaks for itself. i have nothing to add to that performance. >> what do you make of fox taking on your truth? >> i'm going to decline to comment. >> i think it's a big story. there's simplicity in life. it's always six in the end. it's called self-interest. trump wants to save himself. he didn't understand the law. he thought probably the logan act was more effective than it has been over the years and thought it would be enforced against him and all of a sudden he got scared and the obstruction started. thank you, michael schmidt, you're unbelievable. you're bob woodward and bernstein combined. paul butler and jennifer ruben, thank you. coming up, we'll look at last june and what was going on when trump ordered the firing of special counsel robert mueller. that's ahead. plus trump's scarecrow in the field. congressman devin nunes is supposed to be leading the
investigation into the russian meddling, instead trying to chase attention away from trump's russia connections. and jeb bush is sounding is the alarm about 2018. he says trump's character will drag the republicans down in the midterm elections this november. and with the news that trump ordered the firing of the special counsel last june, the party's chances aren't likely to improve. finally, let me finish with the democrats' attempt to recapture their gloerd past by picking bobby kennedy's grandson to give the democratic state of the union. three cheers for that. this is "hardball" where the action is. well jd power did just rank them highest in investor satisfaction with full service brokerage firms... again. and online equity trades are only $4.95... i mean you can't have low cost and be full service. it's impossible. it's like having your cake and eating it too. ask your broker if they offer award-winning full service and low costs. how am i going to explain this? if you don't like their answer, ask again at schwab. schwab, a modern approach to wealth management.
but prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. the name to remember. one big question is the russia investigation moves closer to the president is what will republicans do if special counsel mueller refers impeachable offenses to the department of justice and the congress. in an interview on cnbc, president trump talked about unity among republicans. let's listen to him. >> paul ryan called meet other day, he said i have to tell you,
mr. president, i've been here for a long time and i've been part of the republican party and i've been watching it for a long time. for many decades i've never seen the republican party unified like it is under your presidency. and that was paul ryan. and i thought that was a very nice statement. very nice statement. i think mitch mcconnell actually feels the same way. >> wow. we'll be right back with a deeper look at what was happening last june when trump ordered the white house counsel to fire robert mueller. nd mondat hilton? there's a vacation at the end of every week. whatever type of weekender you are, don't let another weekend pass you by. get the lowest price when you book at hilton.com discover card. i justis this for real?match,
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welcome back to "hardball." president trump's order to fire special counsel robert mueller last june which was not carried out coincided with the first reports that the mueller probe was looking into whether the president had obstructed justice. they're connected. this all began when trump fired former fbi director james comey may 9th of last year when he fired comey.
a move that led to the appointment of robert mueller may 17th. it wasn't long before the a.p., "associated press" reported in early june that mueller "may expand his inquiry to investigate the roles of the attorney general and the deputy attorney general in the firing of fbi director james comey." in his testimony, comey himself bolstered the case for obstruction inquiry when he said he believed he was fired because of the russian investigation. >> it's my judgment that i was fired because of the russia investigation. i was fired in some way to change or the endeavor was to change the way the russia investigation was being conducted. >> the first indication that president trump might attempt to fire mueller came four days later when the president's friend and ceo of the conservative media site news max said this on pbs. >> is president trump prepared to let the special counsel pursue his investigation?
>> well, i think he's considering perhaps terminating the special counsel. i think he's weighing that option. >> well, that was clinical. he's weighing the option of interpreting the special counsel. then came a major turning point in the probe on june 14th. "washington post" revealed the special counsel was in fact investigating the president for possible obstruction of justice. the president himself even acknowledged that development tweeting the next day that i am being investigated for firing the fbi director. witch hunt. it was around this time according to "the new york times" the president began to argue for mueller's firing. julia ansley investigative reporter for nbc news and jonathan swan, national political reporter with axios. put the context together so we try to all recall last june the developments. they moved quickly, firing of comey, going after mueller, ordering the firing of mueller. it all seems as i've been arguing throughout the show so
far, it is logical. you're looking at a guy making steps, uses hig office to protect himself from prosecution. >> he thought and still kind of thinks there is an insurgency against him coming from the justice department and from the fbi. and as that pressure was heating last june, he wanted to see what he could do about it and wanted to fire mueller. i think that's important is to flash forward one month from there where he wanted to fire jeff sessions because he realized he couldn't do this. he wanted to fire the man who obviously recused himself. >> these are punches like a dictatorship, stalin or somebody, i don't want to say he's stalin is pushlging and killing people. let me ask you this. either there's a deep state, deep amorphous come mr. i indicated, many, many people involved, all kinds of cultural thing going on or there's one guy out to get you. if this deep state thing they believe in where all these
bureaucrats spend decades getting republicans, why bother knocking off the top guy? it's one or the other? either you got one person a vendetta against you or this amorphous mass of bureaucratic people all out to get you. which does he believe? >> trump always personalizes everything. he always goes after the person. he had many conversations with people like steve bannon when he was in the white house about this very issue. exactly the point that you mentioned. steve bannon would say to him things like okay, so you fire mueller. what happens next? or you fire rod rosenstein. who obviously replaces him? rachel brandt. you fire her and what happens? you keep going down the list. what bannon would say to trump according to teev bannon is that you can fire the head of the five but you can't fire the institution. so you have these institutions and washington is a city of institutions. >> why did he fire mueller against the advice of advice of bannon? >> didn't fire mueller. >> he ordered. >> he wanted to. >> he ordered it according to
"the new york times." >> i still don't think we know why he didn't. obviously the reason being posited is mcgahn threatened to resign. i think the reason he hasn't is because of ty cobb. >> the guy with the handle bar mustache. >> long-term relationship with mueller and tried to touch trump. >> is it the deep state this frightening sir gas so sea of power and trouble beneath the surface or has he got a personal enemy in bob mueller? >> he's been wanting to go after the c you talk about. he gets focused on the wiretapping of trump tower and all these things he picks up on. it builds into these crazy tweets. that's exactly why they brought in ty cobb. they needed a lawyer within the white house who obviously could handle this specifically. >> a look at the president's twitter feed last june whether he did order the firing makes it clear the russian probe was on
his mind at the time he attempted to fire mueller. among his tweets, he said "they made up a phony collusion with the russian story, found zero proof so now they go for obstruction of justice on phony story. nice." >> i love the way he talks. he talks like he thinks. >> the irony is like you know, you have a contemporaneous view in his brain. it's like when they bring him in for questioning, he goes no, i wasn't thinking about this. actually, yes, you tweeted about it. >> is he going to talk like that under oath? nice. >> sad. >> trump's lawyer said the "usa today" misleading statement in august, he put out the word afterwards, i never was doing this. >> john dowd who obviously came in around the time he started speaking more for the trump legal lel team because jake sekulow had been thought to be doing a botched job. he says he never considered firing bob mueller.
now you go back and look at everything and you say what can we believe and also was this held so closely that dowd didn't know? are there people in the white house that don't know the things that run through the consideration in the president's head? >> who obviously tells huckabee sanders to say it didn't happen? do they just assume that's what the message it? >> here's the thing. >> he did order the firing. > "the new york times" like any responsible media gives advance notice, we are going to write this story. if this really was untrue, where are the white house denials in the original story, the vehement denial from mcgahn this happened? where are the statements? they don't examine is. >> trump's legal team is studying a 1990s era court ruling in in order to avoid a possible interview between the president and special counsel. this is again against cross currents of truth or lying.
the president said, i'll take it under oath. i'll answer all the questions under oath and they start looking for some precedent to protect him from having to arenas any questions. >> we keep saying, of course, the president has to talk because no president would see it to be politically feasible to plead the fifth or pull out this '90s era president. but trump has already been able to go against things that were sort of political tradition and he does it every day. he's still the man empty white house. >> he said i can shoot somebody on fifth avenue. is that true, jonathan? metaphorically? can he get away with anything? ing. > 35% sure. look at all the things he's gotten away with so far. >> last week with stormy and all mulligan. >> that wasn't even the most important story. >> five-star family. >> it's unlimited power. what's his plan? the gleam in your eye. here's what i think he plans to do. run for re-election with about
39%, destroy his opponent personally, give him or her nicknames, dump all over the person as a person and hoping he can get back up to the mid 40s. >> i've always thought he would run for re-election. people keep speculating he won't. before he dispatched one of his ambassadors, trump said i want you back in 2019 to help me with the re-elect. he's thinking about it. >> i agree. thank you, julia. do you want to make a bet he's back again next time? >> this is why i like covering the justice department, not politics. >> take a pass. julia ansley, great reporting, jonathan swan great stuff coming from him. as we learn more about trump ordering the firing of robert mueller last june, the republicans led by -- you want a friend like devin nunes. he will defend anything. he's out there firing up the fog machine. this time, nobody believes what he's putting out. this is "hardball" where the action is. and we may not know much about medicine, but we know a lot about drama.
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devin nunes has never really recused himself from the house intelligence committee investigation into russia's role in the election. he's the chairman of the committee. still sitting atop one of the house's most powerful committees, nunes from california continues to use his position to serve donald trump's personal interests. while president trump has not yet fired mr. mueller it seems
like congressman nunes is intent on doing the president's work for hip. this time nunes is taughting a new memo that allegedly outlines how the government abused secret surveillance. >> there are four pages of a memorandum prepared by the intelligence committee that will shock the conscience of this country when it comes to the horrific abuses that occurred during the last administration and that i believe continue to pose a threat to donald trump's presidency. >> when the people of america see the four pages and then the additional documents, what they're going to see is we have a problem in the fisa. >> it's hard for me to imagine anyone reading this memo and shrugging their shoulders and saying that's no big deal. most people will not. >> revenge of the nerds here. it's become a pattern of sorts for nunes who obviously seems to believe if at first you don't sked try again. last spring he accused the obama
administration of unmasking trump associates picked up by surveillance information given to him by white house and he ran back to the white house the next day and say guess what i found. he found it at the white house. a review of this material flagged by nunes shows no inappropriate action. as head of the committee, he's launched two new probes, one into the uranium one deal and the second into hillary clinton, of course, private e-mail server. david corn washington bureau chief, thank you so much. i'm going to get out of your way. i want you to explain how the scarecrow operates. all he seems to want to do is scare away the president from the people, the people in the center right. no hope on far right. don't pay attention to this investigation of the russian involvement by the president or the russian involvement in our campaigns for president. don't pay any attention, don't think about these other things we got to you talk about. that seeps what he's up to. >> deflect and distract again
and again and again. i'm not saying that there's -- there may not be a problem with surveillance. it could we'll be that an application put in for a super secret warrant was put in inappropriately. but the question you have to ask yourself is, is that a bigger deal than putin and russia undermining our own election? i hear none of these guys getting upset about that because that does taint the president and raises problems for them. instead, it's unmasking, leak of classified administration. oh, you're the fbi, sinister dark force. deep state conspiring with the clinton campaign even though they released that information right before the election. they were still conspireing with the clinton campaign to get donald trump from the get go. they throw one thing after another like spaghetti against the wall. don't look at what's really happening. it's a guy -- it's a guy skrug ling monkeys. >> you're clear on there. let's go through the history. we spent forever talking about something called whitewater with
the clintons that ended up being nothing. we ended up having how many hours of hearings on benghazi on the so-called e-mails, they had all the resources of the congress to investigate that. they come up with nothing. now they're trying to find something else to focus on that will come up with nothing because they're afraid this thing about the president will come up with something. i think that's what they're afraid of, not that it's a waste of time but at the end of it, bob mueller is going to get his prey. he's going to get what he's looking pore and find obstruction and collusion and possibly money laundering and they're scared 0 death of that. that will bring down this administration. >> whether he does or doesn't, on the way there, congress does have responsibilities of its own. there are two congressional investigations more than two, and yet, they're not paying any attention. >> so tutorial about this. you know what nunes did. he went down to the executive office building and got dirt and
came back to the west wing of the without and delivered what he got from his own people. >> when the intelligence community last year put out the final assessment of the russia operation it, said one of its goals was to sow chaos and discord in america. nunes and the others are trying to do exactly the same thing, make it confused and chaotic. people don't know what to think. whether they believe it or not, they're in leaguing with vladimir putin to confuse us what to look at. don't look at this or that. look at the guy juggling mon kis over there. look at me. turning into a circus. >> so many republicans in congress are doing their parts in the circus. is there a ringmaster? who obviously says nunes, you do this, you do this. you do this. all these guys seemed to have assigned roles. who is doing the assignment? >> i don't know if there's a central brain in the middle of all this. i think they're all trying different things. jim jordan has been talking
about the fbi being this deep state conspiracy. nunes. >> mark meadows. >> focusing on a four page memo. we know what that means. >> what does it mean. >> there's four pages. >> that's mccarthy stuff. >> i have in this hand. >> single spaced or double spaced. >> i have here in my hand. >> your clarity has been helpful. up next, the news trump ordered the firing of robert mueller underscores a big problem for republicans. they've got a midterm election coming up in november and trump's character could drag them all down. that's the warning we all read today in "usa today" from jeb bush. we'll get to that in the roundtable. you're watching "hardball." how do you chase what you love with moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis? do what i did. ask your doctor about humira. it's proven to help relieve pain and protect joints from further irreversible damage in many adults. humira works by targeting and helping to block a specific source of inflammation
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coming this november. if the midterms. former florida governor jeb bush is now sounding an alarm across the country warning republicans they're in for a beating if they can't distance themself from the person of this president. in an interview with "usa today," governor bush lambasted trump's erratic leadership style, obsession with twitter, and what he calls racist comments telling the newspaper "the character of the guy and the turnover and the piting and just the constant chaos around his presidency that is self-inflicted has made it hard for him." well, i want the president to succeed. i don't think he will succeed if he copies on this path. bush went on to add if the election is nationalized and it's not about the economy then, we'll lose. let's bring in the "hardball" roundtable night, pete is the democratic mayor of south bend, indiana. george f. will is a national columnist with the "washington post," and sabrina siddiqui political reporter for the guardian. i'll start with george because
you know jeb well. what do you think he hopes to accomplish with this rather strong shot across the bow? >> i'm not sure had he an agenda. someone asked him questions. he agreed to an interview. but the persona that he says is dangerous, the presidential persona, is the same one he had in 2016 and he won the election. a lot of people voted for him not in spite of but because of the persona. so i think that that won't itself be crippling. you work for the man who obviously stayed all politics is local. not necessarily. if the economy's doing well, if the country's at peace, if people are ininto youred to the behavior of the president by then, if it's become both spectacular and boring at the same time, which it might have been, wouldn't worry about. remember, chris, a week ago people in this town were saying gosh, will a two-day shutdown in january have a big ripple effect
in november? over the weekend in january. >> don't go by these current -- it seems to me there's three rings in the circus. there's the economy which is looking good. there's the personality of this president which is erratic and dangerous and then there is the investigation by robert mueller, all three of them are going to matter. mayor, what's going to matter between now and november? which of the three rings will movie the most? >> i think the economy but not in the sense of the top line numbers. look at 2016. we had a so-called. >> you have a broadcaster's voice. >> thanks. >> that's a good thing to have. >> i'll stick to my day job if they let me. you know, we had an economic anxiety election allegedly under conditions of full employment. it's about things that are a lot deeper than just the top line economic numbers and those same things that are roiling under the surface in 2016 are roiling under the surface in 2018 at least where i come from in the industrial mid-west. >> the manufacturing guys are still worried. >> of course, how could you not
be. >> sabrina. >> when you look at republicans' prospects in 2018, the calculation they're making it one that they need this president's signature in order to enact their agenda and in order to have something to run on. sotach reform. they didn't want to be on the wrong side of the president because that is the single legislative accomplishment they have one year into his presidency. there's also the fact that the republican base is still overwhelming behind this president. that's a short-terp gain of course, where they're hoping to boost turnout in november. the long-term ramification what's jeb bush was speaking to you will not expand your electorate to include people of color, single women and groups feeling alienated by this party because of rhetoric from this president. >> i think we're getting a big turnout of women running for office this year. do you expect a big turnout by women at the polls this november? >> i think there's certainly some indication if you look at some of the results in alabama, it's a special election, you
don't want to take away too many implications. there's a left base now activated and a lot of women tend to lean democratic. but then there's also i think men of color who obviously made a difference in a lot of elections. that's an interesting line you're going to probably see play a very important role. >> this is the oldest argument. i did work in politics for years. i've argueded you need an opposition message. it's not good muff to bet against the bank or city hall. do the democrats have a message for '18? >> remember what the israeli diplomat said about the palestinians, they never miss an opportunity for miss agopportunity. and the democrats i think are laying the groundwork to lose another election. >> you think they could lose the house again. >> i think they could. yes, if they go into this election and talk only about immigration and say a single payer plan becomes a litmus test, then if they run on the slogan if you like your health care plan, you certainly can't keep it, i'm not sure that's a
winner. >> mayor, what do you think about the people at the local level? will they get out this time, the democrats. >> i think so. most democrats are very motivated. >> is donnelly going to get re-elected? >> i think so. he's got discipline, timing and luck. it would one thing we were talking about how he would survive hillary's midterm. it's another right now. it's within our party to blow this opportunity. >> the suburban women will vote against trump this time. they're going to go completely against him. i think that will be different and a lot of men in the burbs. up next, we'll get three big scoops. we talk about all weekend perhaps. you're watching "hardball." that's a long type, as george points out. rodney -- mastermind of discounts like safe driver, paperless. the list goes on. how about a discount for long lists? gold. mara, you save our customers hundreds for switching almost effortlessly. it's a gift. and jamie. -present. -together we are unstoppable. so, what are we gonna do?
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ready to let go of hep c? ask your hep c specialist about harvoni. a few minutes ago, president trump arrived back at the white house and talked davos but not mueller. let's watch. >> davos. >> davos was really great. our country's doing great. a lot of money is coming into our country. we have many, many people from davos bringing their money over here. i think it was a very, very successful trip. thank you. >> fire muler. >> that's our president. we'll be right back after this. . and tiny. and this is laura's mobile dog grooming palace. laura can clean up a retriever that rolled in foxtails, but she's not much on "articles of organization." articles of what? so, she turned to legalzoom. they helped me out. she means we helped with her llc, trademark, and a lot of
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force in automation. for the last three days, i've been with elected officials from both parties. the word russia was not uttered once. >> automation was. >> absolutely. >> are we going to be replaced? can mayors be replaced. >> i like to think they can't automate the job of mayor. if there's a way, somebody will find it. >> will. >> pitchers and catchers report in 19 days and you probably know hayes was the first president to have a telephone. you may not know what's coming from mr. trump will be tariffs on steel in the name of national security and the wto will probably knock that down and we'll be that much closer to a trade war. >> that will help in a couple places. >> a poll commissioned by a major democratic political group found that in battleground states, even the most red leaning areas republican be voters hold republicans in congress as low esteem as they does democrats. it means you'll get a lot more
candidates like roy moore, fringe candidates. >> thank you, mayor. from south bend. a wonderful place. george will and sabrina. we finish tonight with the democrats pick to give their response to the state of the union. they picked joe kennedy, going back to the bakes. you're watching "hardball." you always pay
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kennedy's grandson for the party's state of the union response shows the democrats are wanting to touch base with their gloried past. picking massachusetts congressman joe kennedy iii is a reach to recapture the unity that brought excitement and power and magic to the new frontier politics of the '60s and invoking the name and the blood of the kennedy family itself, the democratic leaders of the house and senate are exhuming the scenes along the railroad tracks in june of 1968 when robert kennedy was carried to arlington cemetery. no one still alive forgets the faces of african-americans singing the batsal hymn of the republic or the poor white families along the route their hands raised in affectionate salute. bobby kennedy personified that democratic unity more than any leader since and explained why his grandson has been chosen to raise the banner as the two parties announcing young kennedy for good paying manufacturing jobs and expanding opportunities known for that and calling cat
young lawmaker a fighter for working americans. it's a return of the tribute his grandfather paid democrats back at the '64 convention. here he is. >> no matter what talent an individual possesses, what energy he might have, no matter how much integrity and honesty he might have, if he is by himself and particularly a political figure, he can accomplish very little. but if he is sustained as president kennedy was by the democratic party all over the united states dedicated to the same things that he was attempting to accomplish, you can accomplish a great deal. >> robert kennedy believes in that coalition. campaigning in the '68 indiana presidential primary he rode through gary indiana seated between richard hatcher, the first african-american mayor and zone i zale, former middleweight champion. he wanted his message to be stark and personal.
"i proved ig be a bridge between blacks and whites without stepping back from my positions." what made robert kennedy so unique is the grate progressive columnist was he felt the same empathy for white working men and women as african measures. he thought of waitresses all as. the democrats are saying what they see coming in their future. starting this tuesday night, the democrats hope to win back wisconsin, michigan and pennsylvania out to match the brand name trump with one that's proven itself over the decades, kennedy, bobby kennedy ten weeks on the "new york times" best seller list. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. all in with chris hayes starts right now.
>> tonight on all in. >> mr. president, did you seek to fire robert mueller. >> fake news, folks. >> the plot to fire mueller. >> typical "new york times" fake stories. >> tonight new concerns the threat to the special counsel hasn't passed. and yet, one republican is backing off his plan to protect robert mueller and what all this means for the russia investigation. >> i haven't given it any thought. >> then. >> yeah, maybe donald trump wanted to fire the special counsel for conflict. does he not have the right to raise those questions. >> can trump tv sustain the president through his latest crisis. >> the president says it's fake news. what do you think? do you even care? >> the finance chief for the republican party faces new allegations of sexual misconduct. >> steve has always got advice. >> when all-in starts right now. >> his advice i like to listen to. >> good evening from