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tv   AM Joy  MSNBC  February 18, 2018 7:00am-9:00am PST

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i'm alex witt. i'll see you at noon eastern. it's time for "am joy". >> if the president wants to come up to me and tell me to my face it was the terrible tragedy and how it should never have happened and maintain telling us how nothing is going to be done about it, i'm going happily ask him how much money he received from the national rifle association. >> good morning. welcome to "am joy". the survivors of the deadly school shooting in parkland, florida are taking donald trump and the nra to task for their inaction. the president true to form is making the horrific death of 17 students and teachers all about him. and his sad and desperate need to deflect from the russian investigation. after the fbi admitted it failed to follow up on a detailed tip
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about the shooters six weeks before the shooting trump used the admission to continue his crusade against the fbi. tweeting, very sad that the fbi missed all of the many signals sent out by the florida school shooter. this is not acceptable. they are spending too much time trying to prove the russian collusion with the trump campaign. there is no collusion. so here's the thing. the fbi is a federal agency employing approximately 35,000 people. many of them investigate major crimes, murder, cyber crimes and like and, yes, they are supposed to follow up on tips about potential violent crimes like the massacre in parkland. indeed, someone at the fbi failed to follow up on just such a tip called into the public hotline in january about the parkland shooter. but it's an entirely separate part of the fbi that investigates counter intelligence. things like a presidential campaign colluding with the russians.
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mr. president, those kids weren't about you. but the russian campaign was very much you about and you can't end that investigation by trading on the deaths of children. joining me now in washington is post opinion writer, "the washington post" opinion writer, root political editor, former state department senior adviser, msnbc contributor and former fbi assistant director for counter intelligence. frank, i'll go to you first for your reaction to the president of the united states blaming the fbi in essence for the massacre at parkland. >> so, joy, let's distill down what that late night tweet really says. and some cheeseburger induced coma after 11:00 p.m. last night. the president puts this squarely on fbi. here's what he's telling parents of america. hey, our gun violence problem would go away if the fbi would just leave me alone. that's what he's saying. he's saying the fbi is spending too much time on the russian threat and while he is spending
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zero time addressing the gun violence threat. he's choosing to ignore what the fbi actually does for a living. he's choosing to ignore the fact that the local police visited this guy 39 times in response to 911 calls. social services for the county had to do an assessment of this. everyone in the school saw the warning signs and indicators. yet he decides not to address the mental health issues, not to propose solutions on making it easier to baker someone because they are insane. deny an assault weapon purchase because you have mental health issues. instead he talks about the russian indictment. he knows there's electronic intercepts of russian officials. he's scared out of his mind and playing with the parents of america this morning. >> you're right. indeed on that point about mental health he actually skinned an executive order reversing the obama, president
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obama executive order which would have made it more difficult to put road blocks in the way of somebody with mental health issues from getting their hands on an ar-15. am i correct in the way that i stated the compartmentalization of the fbi are the same people who were investigating potential campaign collusion between the trump campaign and russia, is that the same division of the fbi that would be investigating potentially major crimes like the shooter in parkland. >> you're right on the money. congress literally dictates the amount of manpower resources that are put on national security, counter intelligent, violent crime. it's all dictated by congress. but what president trump sim flying, let's go with him. let's call this out. he's saying maybe if they shift some of those resources, even if congress were to shift resources away from russia threat into violent crime. let's play this out. here's how it works. tip comes into the fbi switch board. somebody is a problem in broward
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county. they get a hold of the sheriff we have a tip on nikolas cruz. do you have anything? the sheriff says we've been there 39 times. we've written up reports people say he'll shoot people. we're up against a wall. the fbi might decide to go knock on his door. you know what? nikolas cruz had that happen 39 times. he's trained on how to talk to law enforcement. i won't do it tomorrow. i don't have specific targets. now you can't baker act him. if you play this out nothing different would have happened. >> not only can't baker act him, can't touch his guns. can't touch them even if he poses with them on facebook, says i'm going to use them to shoot up my school. there's nothing you can do about the gun that he has and he can buy more of them. he can get an uber and shoot up the school. let me goson johnson the party and ideology that
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spewed so much hate about black lives matter specifically claiming they hate law enforcement. that this is the way they talk about law enforcement. because it isn't just donald trump blaming the fbi and federal law enforcement here. here's gentlemjanine piro who w with law enforcement. here she is last night on fox talking about law enforcement. >> although shooter cruz pulled the trigger the potential slaughter twice reported to the fbi could have been prevented had they bothered to lift a finger. this fbi was stained and politicized by mr. holier than thou mr. comey but seeds were sovereign wed by bob mueller now investigating president trump. >> how the heck did she not get elected to the united states senate. there's more. here's tucker carlson who i believe is a blue lives matter guy when it comes to local law
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enforcement when he's talking about black lives matter. here's tucker carlson on fox last night, talking about the fbi. >> at least we know what our federal agents have been doing recently while they were too busy to stop school shootings. chasing down bad facebook trolls. they were given warning nikolas cruz could be planning a massacre but never followed up on that. if somebody told them cruz was talking to vladimir putin they would have been on it. >> jason, your thoughts on the wholesale collapse of right-wing support for federal law enforcement. >> it's interesting. they like cops when cops are doing what they want them to do which is bashing black people in the head. they don't like cops whenever it comes to investigating what's going on in the world. part of this, joy, not only is it extremely ignorant and an attack on our federal officers. they act like the fbi is like
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the "x files". you have people that work on these issues. things get lost, overlooked. at the end of the day cruz was still going to be able to buy his gun. lastly, the blame, all of this comes from president trump. this is what he does. he makes everything about him. he makes everyone else to blame. remember, he told what david johnson's wife what he knew he was signing up for. the first tweet he did about parkland the parents should have known better, they should have warn more people. nothing about trump's responsibility but everything is about him and that's what we're seeing in this case where he attacks the fbi, local kids, teachers, as long as it's about him. >> >>en. jennifer rubin, he's worried the fbi is spending too much time investigating him. he spent at the hospital mostly giving thumbs up and smiling into the camera and saying things are great and amazing and using sue per e ining superlati
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selling used cars. then he went to mar-a-lago. partying. a person tweeted 17 kids murdered this is our president that night. so it's not as if -- i guess he's too busy too. >> he couldn't have spent less time at that hospital if he had been on rollerskates going through the halls. he is entirely incapable of showing empathy. he doesn't understand other people's feelings, he doesn't understand people's suffering, he's utterly failed at the consoler in chief role which both president obama and president bush and president reagan, keep on going back really, every president in the modern era has been able to do. he's not because there's something certificate bring wrong, terribly off about him. i would add one thing to what your guests have been saying and that's that he's hiding behind
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the dead body of 17 people. dead bodies. think about that for a moment. how low, how despicable, how cowardly he's making their deaths, their family's suffering an excuse for his own malfeasance. it's lower than low. we keep saying that. somehow this is the worse of the worse that we've seen from him. >> you worked at the state department. what message does it send to our allies and friends around the world, indeed to dictators around the world when the president of the united states said hide behind the bodies of dead children to disparage federal law enforcement in the executive branch which he controlled, to basically disparage his own federal law enforcement team in order to protect himself? >> there has been a long standing principle not just in security and die plo macy when you go overseas you put america first. unfortunately with donald trump he puts his ego first ahead of
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national security. that is a strong signal to dictators around the world and our allies. our allies are under attack from the russians. in france a russian boss tried to interfere with media, interfere with public opinion and voting. french people saw what it was because the leadership came together to protect the security of their election. our president, instead, would rather follow what the russia bots do than listen to his own national security adviser, to his own intelligence agencies. woe rather follow the orders of vladimir putin to not impose sanctions on russia than he would rather help the american people in their time of need. he's going to continue to sow confusion when the indictment is very clear there's a russian connection, russian interference in our elections and that will continue into 2018. and our president in the meantime is going to be throwing spaghetti at the walls to see what sticks so nobody will point
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the finger at him. >> what kind of message does this blaming the fbi send to our counter intelligence professionals, to the intelligence community that's doing its job trying to protect this country against russian interference in our most sacred political process our democratic process small d what message does it send to them when the president of the united states blames federal law enforcement for the massacre of 17 kids and teachers? >> very simple. they cannot trust the united states. it's just that simple. all of this starts at the top. it starts with the leadership of the united states. we know rank-and-file officers and the fbi, cia, nsa that they will do their job but you know there's going to be those meetings which you have overseas where you want to share information with the united states and with a wink and a nod they will pretty much let our peer, our peers will let us know we won't get the full story unless it's something that directly affects the security of
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the united states or their national security. i'm write agnew book about trump and russia intelligence. and it's the kgb had a four point strategy that they would use when propagandaizing about the cia. their first point was attack, demoralize the leadership of these agencies. and the second point was allow the american criticism to destroy the rank-and-file personnel. donald trump is literally carrying out russian intelligence policy. >> you know, i want to get more from you. this was an agency you worked for, frank. i'm sure these are your friends that donald trump is talking about. these are the people who are your colleagues. not only is he doing it. everything trump does filters down to the right. the media must speak like him. his agencies must speak like him. they all have to repeat his phrase. jefferson sessions who is the attorney general of the united states has now joined in this
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chorus of bashing the fbi, which he supervises. here's attorney general jefferson sessions on the fbi tip. it is now clear that the warning signs were there and tips to the fbi were missed. we see the tragic consequences of those failures. the fbi in conjunction with our state and local partners must act flawlessly to prevent these attacks. where's the defense of the hard work from the same attorney general and do you think that criticism he made is fair on its own without adding that defense of his own people? >> the attorney general knows better. knows the law. and he should be countering the president with the facts and the american people shouldn't buy into this. look, here's the law. there is no existing federal statute that would allow an fbi miami agent to knock on nikolas cruz's door and put him in handcuffs because he's fixing to get ready to hurt somebody. i never put hand curves on somebody who is fixing to get
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ready to shoot somebody. there's no federal statute. if you want to step up and do something then pass new federal law that allows law enforcement officers, police officers who have been to your house 39 times to put handcuffs on you. how about changing the instant background system for gun shop owners who says if your name is in fbi files associated with violence you can't buy an assault weapon. these are the solutions. what's happening inside the fbi right now is instead of viewing the president as an advocate they actually started viewing him as part of the intelligence threat to the united states. >> amazing. amazing times. hard to believe we're here. thank you very much. up next, more on this morning's trump tweet meltdown. successful people have one thing in common. they read more. how do they find the time? ... with audible. audible has the world's largest selection of audiobooks.
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. on friday after visiting with survivors of the parkland school shooting donald trump was ready for a party. cnn reporter kevin liptak tweeted that trump stomped through a studio 54-themed disco at his private mar-a-lago resort. party goers captured photos of trump at the event that were later posted to instagram. he must not have partied too hard because today he was up bright and early, furiously tweeting away from everything on
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attack to president obama to adam schiff, attack on adam schiff and hillary clinton at the same time, revisiting his claim a 400-pound man hacked the election and amusing quote this is the president talking, they are laughing their asshes off in moscow. i'll note that every time that i have said a cuss word on this show i've been quoting donald trump and that's true. let me go to you first on this natasha. donald trump is up super early this morning, golf course is closed. is it raining? can you give us any insight into why we've spent the entire morning reading tweets from this person? >> he clearly feels like he's being backed into a corner, ironically, by his own advisers. you have h.r. mcmaster who said
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that there's evidence that now russia did, in fact, interfere in the elections. donald trump does not like to be o o outshone. he said mcmaster forgot to say there was no collusion between the trump campaign team and russia. he's trying to make this all about himself when, in fact, the real story here is that the fbi has determined russian interfered in the election using a very sophisticated operation that spanned years and spent millions of dollars on that. we've not seen the president come out and condemn that. yet again the only people he's tweeting about is adam schiff, obama, h.r. mcmaster. we do not see him criticizing put and that's a pattern from well before he even began running for president. >> not implementing sanctions duly passed by congress, not faithfully executing the laws. which some call is impeachable.
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donald trump let's read that tweet again that natasha referred to. he tweeted this. general mcmaster forgot to say that the results of the 2016 election were not impacted or changed by the russians and that the only collusion was between russia and the crooked h. remember the dirty dossier. he rollsous his conspiracy theories. did mcmaster forget to say that or is that just not true >> mcmaster didn't forget to say that. mcmaster forgot to read the cue card that the white house handed to him that he was to read when he makes statements. leapt me tell you about general mcmaster a man i used to have a lot of respect for. these are one of these guys that's an american hero. he wrote a book literal about military leadership standing up to presidents abusing power and now he's an enabler to the white house. he went to munich and made that statement because he was amongst his peer, people he knew he
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could speak to intelligently that would understand u.s. policy as it existed at the level of the national security adviser. once it got back to the white house now it's in the political circus and general mcmaster may, in fact, be the next casualty for not playing donald trump's shell game of protecting moscow. >> to that voluntary point because when he's not in the orbit, under the sort of direct sway of the white house as you just said, when he's in front of his peers he does tell the truth. here is mcmaster yesterday talking about those indictments of 13 russians in a scheme to impact our election. >> we would love to have a cyber dialogue on when russia is sincere about curtailing its sophisticated form of impeding elections. as you can see with the fbi
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indictment, the evidence is now really incontrovertible and available in the public domain whereas in the past it was difficult to attribute. >> what do you make of h.r. mcmaster. how long before donald trump forces him to walk that back, his seeming belief that indeed what happened happened that russia did interfere in our election and it was espionage. >> i don't think he'll force him to walk it back. donald trump will harass him via conversation, via twitter, try to belittle him the way he does everyone who fails to cross him. but i think it's significant that did, i think, contribute to this spasm that the president is having. h.r. mcmaster saying in public that all of the intelligence chiefs last week saying in public you cannot dispute this,
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russia weighed in. oh, by the way it's incontrovertible they weighed in on donald trump's behalf. yes may have started with the intent to be disruptive and discredit democracy, that's been their game plan but by 2016 it says it in black and white in that indictment they began to favor him and to disparage hillary clinton. and that is something donald trump is going to have to live with, the rest of his life. he did not win this election on his own. he won it with the help of the enemy of the united states, russia. >> and you're obviously, that's incredibly triggering for him. he can't take it, quite honestly. kyle griffin tweeted these two tweets from donald trump. tweet number one on saturday trump saying funny how the fake news media doesn't want to say the russian group was formed in 2014. long before my run for
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president. maybe they knew i was going to run even though i didn't know. september 2014, donald trump tweet. i wonder if i run for all caps president will the haters and losers vote for me knowing i will make america great again. i say they will. he even knew what his slogan was going to be. >> there's a tweet for everything. donald trump. actually, in fact, let's not forget he's the person who at the podium said that oh, yeah go hack hillary's emails. he does have an understanding of what the russians are capable and willing to do, to the point that when in the white house, well past the campaign, he was guesting access to the russian ambassador, giving access to russian media that he was not giving to even the united states media. there's one group and one entity that donald trump will not attack and that is the russian heirarchy. very clear he feels some obligation whether financial for all of the bail outs he's gotten russia 0 brioligarchs.
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you have three people tied to the donald trump campaign who have now turned state's evidence and working with the mueller investigation which we know is ongoing so claims that there's no collusion and no direct finger pointing at donald trump is too soon for us to make that determination and that is essentially why you're seeing donald trump go into a tailspin on twitter. >> to that very point you already had in addition to the unnamed three trump campaign people with trump campaign emails who had contact with this russian entity that was attempting to interfere in the election, we don't know who they were, but in addition to that people very high up in the trump campaign have already had some contact with mueller. you got the former campaign chairman paul manafort who just got new bank fraud allegations thrown on top of him which will make him quite cooperative. top trump campaign adviser close to a plea deal meaning rick gates who is a top trump
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campaign advisors. he's close to a plea deal. mueller has interviewed trump's legal team former spokesperson, the former spokesperson for donald trump's legal team spoke with bob mueller earlier this week for more than two hours, according to the "daily beast". this is even before you get to the american who was indicted along with those russians. this is getting closer and closer to the trump inner circle. are the white house staff getting more and more worried about that or is this just donald trump freaking out about it alone? >> it may just be donald trump freaking out about it alone but his staff has to be freaking out about his freak out, right? because everything he tweets can be used as evidence against him. mueller probably is going to take a big interest in what he says especially as it relates to wanting the fbi to essentially end the russia investigation so that it can spend more time to concussion on, like the shooting in parkland which happened which
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is nonsensical. the big thing we have to focus on is mueller issued this indictment on friday to kind of lay the legal ground work for the fact that this russian interference was, in fact, a crime. a crime occurred, and the fact that he did not implicate any americans in that crime yet does not mean that he won't in the future. but it was really important for him to lay this legal ground work so that when he does come around to indicting americans there's a precedent already in place for fact that this was a crime that happened. >> there's one american, one american but what he did was not the collusion but he supplied fake identities to allow identity theft to be part of the crime. you guys, great panel. thank you all. up next the truth about guns.
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but if you had guns in that room, if you had, even if you had a number of people having
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them strapped to their ankle or waist where bullets could have flown in the other direction right at him, you wouldn't have had this same kind of tragedy. >> wow. for years donald trump repeated the myth that more guns is the answer to gun violence a myth straight out of the nra rolled out days after a gunman slaughtered 20 little kids and six adults in newtown, connecticut. >> the only way -- the only way to stop a monster from killing our kids is to be personally involved and invest in a plan of absolute protection. the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. >> joining me chairman of vets.org. john, unlike the president of the united states, his father and grandfather, you served in the military. can you please tell us whether
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gordon lapeer and donald trump are correct that what could have stopped the parkland massacre was, let's say a teacher standing up and facing a guy with an ar-15 and having the presence of mind to not only get shot but to also shoot and kill him. is that true? >> that's a complicated scenario in the parkland situation it's pretty clear that the gunman had an ar-15 semiautomatic rifle philanthropy you're a law enforcement officer and walk in with a handgun you'll lose that battle quickly. sometimes in combat we would be driving around in the early parts of the war and certain officers only had 9 millimeter pistols. so it's a lethal weapon. so i think any time you talk about warfare or combat you have to look at the weapon system being used against you. and the m-4 with 30 round magazin magazines, armor piercing round, law enforcement or individuals with hand guns have no chance.
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>> how much training -- because law enforcement are trained. right? they are trained to face a shooter. i'm talking about an average civilian. how much training did it take, does it take to get a soldier prepared to face incoming fire, someone firing at you and to shoot back? how much training does that take? >> first we check people's background. if you want to be the armor unit you have background checks. shoot weapons at the range, qualify at 50 meters, 100 meters, 150, 200, 350 meters, have to hit 23 targets out of 40 just to carry a pep in any training center in the united states or carry in combat. you can't deploy a troop a war zone unless they are yaufqualif on that weapon. >> and just speaking of weapons one last question on this subject. let's show the two pictures. this is an ar-15 which is what
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the shooter in parkland had. weapons of choice for mass shooters. at the bottom is an ak-47. whi what's the difference between those two? >> the ar-15 and the ak-47 -- the ak-47 is the old soviet built system. the ar-15 doesn't have a fully auto on it. so if you use the m-16 situation in the military, three round burst but we don't qualify with that. ak-47 built for warfare has auto capability. so the point is that the automatic capability on weapon systems is limited because it's not accurate. just good for sprang people at close range. in fact, we don't even use the three round burst ever on the ar-15 but that's essentially one weapon of war that was built by soviets versus the nato system which is the m-4.
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that's what they are systems we use in combat. >> malcolm, do you think the average teacher -- we've heard people on fox news students should have thrown a backpack at the parkland shooter, thrown a chair at him. you heard people on the right saying you should have teachers armed with a handgun to stop a mass shooter that has that gun, an ar-15. is that credible throwing a backpack or chair or a teacher who is untrained, a teacher could take out someone who is intent on mass murder and has an ar-15. >> yeah if he was former special force. that guy wouldn't know what to do in that situation which is immediately to protect the people in the room. you're not going into a fire fight and that's what it's called when you go into a gun exchange, a fire fight. and you are going to try to calmly maneuver your way through screaming running children and isolate the shooter and get a clear shot on the shooter and then engage the shooter.
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certainly if you have a handgun that you have concealed on your hip, i'm a firearms owner, i am trained in firearms, i have ar-15 platform weapons. i know why we fund s.w.a.t. teams because that's their job to go out and do this. a school is a peaceful environment designed for people to learn. it is not a place where you're supposed to be concealed carrying and i have concealed-carry myself and going out in the hopes that you might get into a gunfight. there are too many schools in the united states. thousands upon thousands of schools and if we put firearms into those schools then all you're going to have is a circumstance where a gun can be taken, someone himself become an active shooter and then what we're going to have is an increase in exchanges of fire or the creaincrease of fire in abuf school. >> you said you own ar-15. have you ever walked around on the street with it? like just to show it.
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>> are you crazy? no. military people -- >> do you hunt with it? >> no, i don't hunt with it. i use it as a system that when i was overseas in the military and the intelligence community, i would practice on a system back in the united states so that i had proficiency when he was overseas. i can tell you precisely where my fay arms are. they are locked up until i go to a range which is once a year or so and they are cleaned, inventoried and i treat that weapons locker exactly the way the military does. we don't lay in bed with them, take photographs with them, show them to our friends. we have -- i have a logbook, okay. this is the only way responsible firearm owners should be dealing with these things. these things are highly specialized tools which have one purpose which is the destruction of human or other animate flesh. >> let me ask you this question.
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from the point of view, if law enforcement had encountered a scene where some of the teachers also have guns on their person, would that make it easier for them to evacuate that school and know who the good guys versus the bad guys are or make it more complicated. >> we had this debate in the army a couple of years ago. now certain people carry weapons because of terrorist attacks like what happened in nashville. the law enforcement concern is when they come in and s.w.a.t. comes in they will drop people. if you want to carry your concealed-carry around and take down a couple of shooters with an ar-15, not only are you probably not going to be successful you'll probably be dead because law enforcement will show up on the scene with s.w.a.t. and drop people. you're putting yourself at risk to be honest with you. that's something -- there's this sort of romanticism of this person that can go down and have this concealed-carry and drop someone. in reality it's very scary for the individual that has the weapon.
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>> in the gaby gifford situation, the person grabbed the clip. i haven't heard of a civilian standing up and facing the incoming fire of an ar-15 with no training, no military background, no law enforcement training and a teacher or a kid being able to take out a mass shooter. i would like someone on the right to explain that theory. or throwing a chair or a backpack at them. thank you both. thank you. make sure to stick around for "msnbc live" with alex witt at noon. she will talk with emma gonzalez the young woman who has been speaking so powerfully in favor of gun control in the wake or gun reform more properly in the wake of the parkland shooting. in our next hour king james dunks on fox news. i'm not at risk. even healthy adults 65 and older are at increased risk of pneumococcal pneumonia. isn't it like a bad cold or flu?
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president barack obama and saying they're lying about the united states. where are the grown-ups isn't this the chief of job for john kelly. joining me now is mack mccardkc. your take on what teams sob john kelly's inability for lack of interest in reigning donald trump in, specifically as it relates to his tirades on twitter. is there some way that they could cut trump's access back? or is this just something that's beyond any chief of staff's capability? >> any human being. joy, i think two points, it's past time for this president, this administration to pivot from the campaign and to start governing. they have not done that fully yet. and they need to. it's always a challenge. we had our challenges coming in with president clinton. we got things settled down,
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focused on the agenda. that's the challenge, that's the job at hand, to serve the american people. secondly, the chief of staff clearly serves that the pleasure of the president. so, this has to eminate from the oval office with the president, a collaboration there, trust and so forth. and i think what you saw recently is really a lack of progress in terms of vetting. chief kelly was served poorly by his staff. in terms he did not fully focus on those issues. he's now revised that. this is going to be a alcohocha. the chief of staff's job is a challenge. >> is it part of it that john kelly may share too many of donald trump's procliv this because he may agree with his behavior.
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just a quick rundown of some things john kelly has dealt with personally. falsely accused frederica wilson of grand spf standing an event. proved and apologized. and then saying it led to the civil war, taking the south side instead of the union. february 6th said some dreamers were too afraid or too lazy to get off heir asses and sign up for daca. also using poor lingo. and stands by his statement that kelly was poorly served by his staff. is donald trump poorly served by him? >> you make airfare point there has to be some phil oskiccal alignment with the chief of staff and the president. you're going to disagree with the president. and there's a way to do that in a proper way in the oval office and discuss it. what you're raising, joy, i
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think is the right point. chief of staff kelly who has a issued record of service to this country. and i want to underscore that in this exchange with you. but is he reinforcing the president's really being off the mark here, and reenforcing, really, those tendencies that do not serve in my view the president or the country well. that's really your point. >> yeah. >> and so, it's clearly been a lack of sensitivity in all of those situations that you pointed out on the part of general kelly. that's what he's got to focus on and reset if he's going to be an effective chief of staff. >> let's talk we originally invited you on to talk about the security clearance issue which is pretty extraordinary, about 130 staffers searching without security, including ivanka trump, sarah huckabee sanders, and don mcgowan, the white house counsel doesn't have it. the white house, including miss huckabee sanders has been
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attempting to pass this off to the fbi. we assumed that the fbi grants those clearances but one of the many things that donald trump is teaching us about our government is that they don't. in the atlantic, it noted that an individual can be granted clearance but doesn't actually do the granting. the white house itself makes that decision. sometimes, it will inform a staffer he or she will not receive clearance giving that person time to gracefully leave government. but there's no statutorial proceed that would prevent a staffer from leaving. do you think that the white house is pretending that the fbi is at fault here, when they are responsible for not giving the clearances? >> joy, you gave a very good tutorial on how security passes are granted. you're exactly right. look, this has to be a pry priority for any white house or chief of staff.
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you're dependent in the white house to serve those up. we had a couple people that did not pass the litmus test and we did not hire them. the issues were not league, not like anything we're looking at today. so, i think that's how you have to do it. i think this has been clearly been a mistake. i think at least to some extent the white house has acknowledged that. >> thank you for spending your time today. >> joy, thank you. up next, king james holds court. thank you! so we're a go? yes! we got a yes! what does that mean for purchasing? purchase. let's do this. got it. book the flights! hai! si! si! ya! ya! ya! what does that mean for us? we can get stuff. what's it mean for shipping? ship the goods. you're a go! you got the green light. that means go! oh, yeah. start saying yes to your company's best ideas. we're gonna hit our launch date! (scream) thank you! goodbye! we help all types of businesses with money, tools and know-how to get business done.
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oh, and lebron and kevin, you're great players but no one voted for you. millions elected trump to be their coach. so keep the political commentary to yourself. or as someone once said, shut up and dribble. >> uh-huh. welcome back to "am joy." right wing talk show host laura ingraham must have forgotten the cardinal rule, don't call the king unless he calls you. and a media platform that he co-owns. >> the number one job in america, is someone who didn't understand the people and really don't giver a [ bleep ] about the people. >> after ingram rant, the king fired back on saturday. >> well, first of all, i have no
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idea who she is or what she do. and it lets me know that, you know, everything i've been saying is correct. for her to have that type of reaction, we will definitely not shut up and dribble. i will definitely not do that. >> ingraham would love him to be on the show. and she denied that her remarks were racist but doubled down on her attempt saying quote, if pro athletes and entertains want to freelance as political pundits then they should not be surprised when called out as politicians. and her own network often lets entertainers make cameos as political pundits as long as they use the trump approved.
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and appearing on air to offer expertise on mass shootings. they booked duck dynasty's matriarch phil robertson to go on fox to combat strategies. and not to mention donald trump himself. and whose major qualification for being not just a fox news political pundit but as far as republicans are concerned for being the president of the united states is that he was a reality tv show star. my panel joins me, tiffany cross. eric bolder. william rhoden. and jennifer. >> and the laura ingraham rant on thursday started all of this saying lebron is, quote, running his mouth.
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>> this is a jock alert. nba superstar lebron james is talking politics this time. this time it's r-rated here's his barely intelligible and not to mention the run on the mouth. look, there might be a cautionary lesson in lebron for kids. this is what happens when you attempt to leave high school a year early to join the nba. >> first of all, he did graduate from high school and is an international superstar because of his talent. but what do you make of their -- must they run their mouths like that bill? >> well, where do you start? i mean, it's so ridiculous on both sides. again, this is sort of one of these social media firefights that just probably are part of this generation. in other words, you come at me, i'll come at you. and we keep putting fires on the
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log. and you know, her mission is accomplished. people didn't know who she was. some people associate with her. but what she wanted to do is get in front of a national audience that follows lebron. and as you mentioned it, the thing that you show, mission accomplished. people don't know laura ingraham, now they do. and now, why don't you come on my show? to some extent is the bottom line. in the first go-around what she said is racist. but she's not playing to our crowd. she's playing to her crowd. lebron knows where he is. he said you come at me, i'm going to come at you. he knows what he's done. >> absolutely. lebron james has had multifaceted response to this tiffeny. first he tweeted out i'm more
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than an athlete. with the hash tag i will not shut up and dribble. and saying that our president made it cool for people to speak their truth. we know it's not that we use our voice and it's not what some people think. and the coupe de grace by lebron james thanking her for the opportunity to speak. >> best thing she's going to help me create more awareness. i get to sit up here and talk about social and inequality. and why a woman on a network decided to tell me to shut up and dribble. so thank you. whatever her name is -- what is it? tiago says no one knows and that's perfect. >> tinifffiantiffany.
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i think what laura ingraham said, there's been a long rich tradition of athletes weighing in. this is the famed woman who would have told muhammad ali to shut up and fight when protects the vietnam war. she sounds ridiculous. but if you know blah she sawhat joy, she said this is dangerous because there are children and some adults who will believe this. that's really the fear. we don't want our athletes speaking conscience and truth in our communities because that will incite a movement. and that's not what they want. moreover, the descendants of slaves can talk about what they want to talk about. >> there is an extension that fox news has decided that the grist for the ratings mill is
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black people. >> right. >> you had m&m make a music video attacking donald trump. that's not interesting to them. and the grist is black and brown people. and laura ingraham taking e ing umbrage and saying how dare you say my words are racist. here's laura ingraham. >> many claim my line that lebron should shut up and dribble is racist. what? i wrote a book called "shut up and sing" and i've been using variants of that title to call out political celebrity for 15 years without regard to skin color or what you do. >> she thinks she's way more famous than she is and that way more people know her book than they actually do. but this idea, oh, my goodness, how dare you call me racist.
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all they do is find black people all day and night to point and point to them. >> >> they're panicked. in the last eight days they don't want to talk about a wife beater being in the white house. or a school massacre or indictments, right? they have to expand the outreach, and they end up sounding like a chat room. so, what's interesting, for years, fox has expanded the boundaries for conservatives and republicans this is how offensive you will be. i think at an example, they're taking their clues from trump. fox has shown fox news you can be as racist as you want to be. and she's been doing this for a long time. she's upped it because trump is sending the signals. all the guard rails are off. no common decency. >> yep. >> i will cover for you and we will go ahead. all bets are you have.
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>> at this point, jennifer reuben, some neo-nazis are good people he's covering for the support he gets from david duke. i think kevin durant was exactly right it's list really slterall your inhibitions, if you have these feelings about black or brown people, let it fly. >> exactly. in a discussion we used to call polite society. what a quaint notion that is. not necessarily the tag line but all of the slurs on his intelligence or education, she never makes those comments about white celebrities or white athletes. she specifically too many him on over his intellect. and that is the most racial slur that a black man is somehow stupid or less educated than a white man. and fox is running the same
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story over and over again. that an illegal alien did something bad and we should throw them all out and build a wall. that's the narrative. and the other narrative is that urban cities are hellholes and we need to get rid of them because of illegal aliens. it's this nonstop pattern of racist innuendinnuendo. and where did the whole birthing movement get hits lift or wings? it was fox. i think it's time for the advertisers on fox to take a good look and say do we want tower money to be associated with not only a racist outfit but one which is really destroying civil dialogue in a democracy? and i think people have to begin to withdraw themselves. withdraw your money, withdraw
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their support because this is a noxious stain on society. >> let's give lebron even more of a joyvoice because he may no know who laura ingraham is. here's is lebron james on saturday also talking about fox news. >> when i was growing up there were like to three jobs that you looked for inspiration or you feel like these are the people that can give me life. the president of the united states, whoever was the best in sports and then like the greatest musician at the time. this time right now, what the president of the united states, it's at a bad time. and while we cannot change what comes out of that man's mouth, we can continue to alert the people that watch us, that listen to us, as this is not the way. >> and not only that, bill, but he added on saturday, that was him talking on his, you know,
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news outlet video. he said i think the engine that she sits behind, laura ingraham doesn't have a great rap sheet when it comes to race in our country. there are many people who are not african-american that spoke on the same issues. >> let me say this, laura has her racist agenda. getting to the sports metaphor. we need to take care of our locker room. and that's the thing. misogyny and attacking black folks is a multimillion-dollar business. and i happened to go through the lyrics. talking about the "n" words, "b"s and that kind of stuff. i get that. but we really have to kind of attack the stuff that's coming at our people and our women. and ingraham, that's what she does.
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i think, really, lebron's voice, steph curry's voice, these guys are saying that's okay, but we really have to begin to stop the stuff that's directed at us. i get what we're saying about ingraham. that's sort of like the boston celtics lying the knicks. let's clean up our locker room. let's make sure we use our podium to stop the stuff that's coming out of our kids. the music is telling to us kill each other. the music is talking about black women, misogyny. that's fundamental. ingraham, that's her job. but our job is really to clean up our locker room and make sure we're on the same team. so, i'd like lebron and those guys not to get distracted into a firefight, that at the end of the day means nothing. what is something is a front that is attacking black people
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and black women. >> my putback on that would be, when the president of the united states is attacking individuals, you know, does it not somebody of lebron's stature and fame to be able to attack back? he can speak for people who don't have that kind of a platform? >> right. i don't disagree with you, i think lebron james is doing exactly that. he spends over $41 million sending kids from his hometown of akron to college. he funds a s.t.e.m. college all across the country. and it stems beyond our borders. >> he can do both. >> that's my point. i think if we highlight what they're doing. >> fox is not going to change. the innocecentive structure form to just too strong, right? >> they'll continue it. they've been whining about
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losing the cultural war for decades, hollywood, music, tv, they're not interested in this hate mants tra. they've they're losing the hip-hop culture. they've lost it all. basically, it's just shut up. we'll bring up washed up actors or a photographer. but they have no say in pop culture anymore. nobody wanted to be associated with this rancid stuff. and laura ingraham, just shut up. we're not on the same page. >> all they could get is c-list actors, and underrated actors from the '90s. you'll be back on the show. thank you, guys. have a great weekend. up next, the obama portraits have the right wing -- oh! more "am joy" next. but we make more than our name suggests. we're an organic tea company. a premium juice company.
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his initial impulse maybe in the work was to also elevate me and put me in the settings with pa partridges and scepters and thrones and ship robes and mounting me on horses. [ laughter ] >> and i had to explain that i've got enough political
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problems without you making me look like napoleon. we've got to bring it down just a touch. >> miss him yet? this week, the national portrait gallery unveiled the official portraits of president barack obama and first lady michelle obama. now it quickly morphed into an ability for right wing conspiracy. saying it had sexual overtones. and then others attacking the artist wiley. and that is based on the biblical story of judas as painted during the european ren flori renaissance. but here on "a.m. joy" we have no fear of art. and we are celebrating the obamas portraits. >> i'm also thinking about all of the young people, particularly girls and girls of
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color who in years ahead will come to this place and they will look up and they will see an image of someone who looks like them hanging on the wall of this great american institution. >> joining me now to discuss the real meaning of the obama portraits is seth rodney writer and editor at hyper-allergic. and kehinde wiley who justly painted the obamas. thanks for being here. >> thank you, joy. >> thank you for writing that piece and for trying to help us unpack this a little bit. i want to go back and talk before we get to the obama portraits. this freak outover the kehinde wiley pieces of 2012. one of the pieces about it, obama portrait that ka hintdy wylie once painted white women
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decaptivating black women. what were those about? >> i want to say a when we talk about meaning coming from art and paintings in particular, that we have this tendency, to make people, people who encounter art in museums and galleries have a tendency that there is one meaning to get. that you have to get it, or they've lost it. there are actually several meanings in any piece of art. it's layered. with kehinde wiley's beheadings, i want to say this, first of all, to give people some context. there is an entire history, art is littered with beheadings with decapitations. in fact, if you go to the website, art curator class which is owned by cindy ingram. she tells us that there are 140
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paintings and sculptures paved bon the one you mentioned caravacchio. this legion. showing a kind of -- and seeing that is dramatic, that is moving, that sets people's nerves on edge. that's one of the things the paintings do. >> right. >> kehinde wiley is taking us to heighted sensitivity to moments of death. by using that, as you said, in fact, i wrote a piece on hisita. and we communicated them. and he said that one of the things that he wants to do is cross temple boundaries, infuse contemporary urban culture. >> right. so he essentially replaces hicht
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torqual classical figures with the contemporary american to make you think about things in a different way? >> precisely. so, he's looking for a bunch of different means. not just one meaning. one of the things that coming out of the painting is the idea that -- and he said this when asked by the "new yorker" magazine piece saying it's a play on it. i think what he means by that he's playing with his strokes, with feelings that percolate throughout the western art. and one of the meanings that coming out of that, the meaning is that, there is a genuine concern for people who are black. >> right. >> that they have been -- that one of the ways to throw off the shame of oppression is to actually take up arms and kill the oppressor. >> yeah. >> this is actually a reasonable response. >> it's question raised in
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"black panther" about what you should do with the oppressor? should you hold back or protect them. you mentioned this piece. it's posted in social media. but it's a question of i see it, i want to easily interpret it. i just want to look at the person and see a scene that i recognize. here are some portraits. jimmy carter. george herbert walker bush. bill clinton and george bush. we see that in the white house. and then barack obama's is so different, right? >> right. >> then we'll do the first lady's. and the first lady's picture is different we'll show you the artist's work about how she put that together. why do you think it's so drawing for barack obama's photo to look so different? >> well, for one thing, there's
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all of the green follow yiage i background. and that's off-putting. >> right. >> because we're used to seeing men in boudier settings. that they enjoy especially the fruits of post-industrialization. what you have with obama's portrait, you have him literally sitting in a garden that's growing. >> yeah. >> it's as if he's blossoming out of this verdant paradise. there's something profoundly different about that. >> yeah. >> that i think resonates with people of color. because when you imagine ourselves, the story that we tell ourselves about being americans, that we come from somewhere else, right? >> yeah. >> in a way it's symbolizing
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that. >> and the flowers are literally indicative of any flowers that have to do with kenya or hawaii. >> precisely. >> what i recommend people do is to read the piece. alleys the amy sheryl photo. thank you. congressman schiff. [fbi agent] you're a brave man, mr. stevens. your testimony will save lives. mr. stevens? this is your new name. this is your new house. and a perfectly inconspicuous suv. you must become invisible. [hero] i'll take my chances.
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congressman, you've seen the intelligence. do you think that this indictment suggests that it's a case closed, no collusion? >> no, of course not. but this is a president who claims vindication anytime someone sneezes. what this indictment sets out is information about only one element of the russian active measures campaign. the russian publishing of stolen information now on that, the trump campaign and indeed candidate trump himself was very witnessing of what went on. >> we heard representative adam schiff, devin nunes's counterpart on the house intelligence committee address trump's character-limited claims that the indictment of 13 russians cleared to him collusion. joining me now tiffany ross.
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and niaara hawk. >> and little who spells little like that. adam schiff. obama administration, russian meddling. 2016, finally write about something, obama was president. no thank you, adam. and another tweet that i'm not going to bother to read because i'm just not. here's is adam schiff on cnn this morning. this is adam schiff on the obama administration and russian meddling. >> do you believe that president obama and his administration bears some responsibility for not stopping this well before the 2016 presidential election? >> i said that all along that i thought the obama administration should have done more. and indeed when we discovered and we could attribute the conduct to russia, senator
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feinstein and i took the first steps to make public retribution because we couldn't get the obama administration to acknowledge russian interference. they were wary of putting their hand on the scale. none of this is an excuse for this president to sit on his hands. >> do you blame that as congressman schiff blaming president obama for russian interference? >> no, of course not. joy, i've said this for a long time, i think that the president, past president obama was much more concerned with hey, i don't want to put my finger on the scale and look partisan. that's the problem. but if at the end of the day he said i'm inviting hillary and donald trump to the white house it wouldn't have stopped the fact that the campaign was probably working with wikileaks. we're understand assault from rushingia. it's very clear. multiple people have said it. moore has made it clear, look, they were successful before and
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we're probably going to see it again. that is what he we face. we have a president that is more concerned with his integrity than our election system. >> tiffeny that was one of the major issues here, you did have in 2016, the presumption by the data that hillary clinton was going to win. and you have president obama in an awkward position where he has to go out and decide do you full-on tell people what's going on which could make people doubt the electoral system and make it clear that he's trying to help hillary clinton. he puts country before party and says i'm not going to go out and look like i'm trying to help hillary clinton. and now he's getting blamed by the guy who was helped by the russians. >> yes. it's odd. i think what came of the russian collusion is fairly. but looking at how they handled it, they uncovered e-mail exchanges with susan rice had
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with the president. she was present, vice president joe biden was there. obviously, obama was there. you read this exchange, it was very much by the book. obama said i want this by the book. keep me in the loop. of he handled it responsibly. to your point putting this country before party. but what you're seeing they're investigating the investigators, yet again. the new target they want to bring on the hill and question now, susan rice who again has answered all of these questions. and there's a significant amount of the country that takes the president's tweets as truth. there's no intel select wall curiosity. you can google some of these things and it's obvious, the president treats the presidency like a christmas toy like somebody is going to take it away from him if we keep looking at it. that's not fair, you won the electoral college. you are president. why havepy not imposed any sanctions? why has he not acknowledged that not only did russia meddle in the 2016 election but they are
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currently actively medding in the election now. why? because she has a chance to earn from it. >> and none of that is being dealt with by this administration. we get a comment on the other issue here. during the election, the obama administration did go to the leadership, to the big eight in congress. and say, listen, this is happening. we should get together in a bipartisan fashion. and do something about it. and put out a joint statement saying russia is attempting to interfere. and it was when mitch mcconnell threatened the president and said if you try to say something about this, we're going to interpret that as you trying to help hillary clinton and we're going to publicly oppose it. how is it that the republican party can possible claim it was the obama administration to blame here rather than, frankly, themselves? >> well, it's a big game of
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where you can point the finger instead of pointing it at yourself, the republican party or donald trump. when the fact of the matter is even this week, the director of national intelligence. the combination of cia, fbi, all of the intelligence agencies including the pentagon leased a report saying explicitly that the chaos that russia is putting into elections is only beginning. and unfortunately, we have a president who himself is a chaos agent. that is what he does. the 2018 election coming up, in which russia is already gearing up to take advantage of our social media. and as tiffany said lack of curiosity by what donald trump happens to be retweeting and talking about himself. and if anything, there was a report that also made it clear that russia is sitting and putin is sitting there in the kremlin looking at the 2016 election as a big success for him. >> right. >> and that the chaos in their plan is working. >> yes.
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>> you have speaker ryan now speaking out against it. you have h.r. mcmaster speaking out against russia intervention of meddling but you have a president who is not able to separate this national security issue which he could take leadership on that he could tackle from him and his own campaigns. the irony is if he actually came out against the russian meddling, he would show some leadership that might help the report but he just cannot get the idea that he's being attacked individually. >> fears of illegitimate. and turn to the shooting in parkland. a student, chuck todd was asked whether he would feel safe take a listen. >> i will not feel safe going back to school myself until reasonable health care
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legislation and gun control legislation is passed at this point it's unacceptable. how many more students are going to have to die and have their blood spilt in american classrooms? >> i want to ask the tipping question, because we didn't read the tipping point, columbine happened in 1999. it's been a long time for gnow, at a time, forget the tipping point where younger students could change the tide and marginize the nra? >> and these gun activists that you see, how can you look at these children and say, yes, the time is now. yes, we were at a cross roads which columbine happened. and mass shootings. when you look at the gun activists that have bullets strapped to their chests, in fatigue, they look like cowboys,
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shouting over my dead body at rallies. i think if these were black and brown people in fatigue, favorites in the air, shouting over my dead body, we'd see drastic gun laws across this country like we did when we talked about with the black panther party when they armed themselves. and ronald reagan signed that essentially equalizing it. >> these kids are so articulate. it's like they're at their witt's end, they don't have adults advocating for them. in this country, we will accept dead babies and dead teenagers because that's more important to me than my gun rights? yeah. it's a sad day. >> alex jones going out and saying it's a hoax there was no sandy hook massacre. we had some students tweeting about trump, blaming their shooting on the russian investigation.
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a tweet he sent out this morning. trump, my friends were brutally murdered and you have the nerve to make this about russia. i cannot believe this. another one, oh, my god, 17 of my classmates are gone. you have the audacity to make this about russia. another one, 17 of my classmates were brutally murdered a place where they should have felt safe. you're the president of the united states and you have the audacity to put that in as an excuse. i guess i should expect that from you. donald trump and the white house some a big pr problem that these kids are old enough to get on tv and get on twitter. >> yes, these kids get on television, on twitter. and the president has demonstrated not only that he doesn't care he's actively hostile. joy, i thought this earlier in the week, i saw him speak about the shooting. he spoke for six minutes. that's less time than he spent talking about nfl players,
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defending porter. he spent no time on anything that's important except talking about himself. here's something critical to remember long term. this is not really about mental health. okay. i'm concerned about this idea as using this as a red herring. if a woman buys a gun, because she's suffering depression. this is about guns and that's what need ofs to be addressed. the president doesn't want to talk about it. >> indeed, stigmatizing people about guns is another excuse. 9 survivors of parkland shooting organized a web page. they're organizing a march, march 24th, called the march for our lives. the kids are actually doing something about it. the politicians, not so much, hello, marco rubio, everybody else in florida.
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governor, republicans in washington, kids doing more than you. >> thank you. you guys have a great rest of the day. the teenager sounding more presidential than president trump on the shooting in parkland, florida. she'll be up. up in next, the phenomenon on "black panther" up next.
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. > . ♪ now that i have your attention -- >> we are going to get started. okay, "black panther" is out, spoiler alert, it is amazing. the director is on track to pull in $194 million just this weekend in the u.s. alone. with the success of this movie, will we see more opportunities open up for creator or color.
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my next guest, she's an actress and writer, she is joining me now, it is always so great to have you on. >> it is great to be here. this is a great morning. >> okay, first of all, the movie is amazing. it is amazing not just the visual scope of it. a black director and mostly black casts and they really managed to do something new. >> it is huge. that type of thing had to be fictionalized by a lot of creators. it is created by stanley and jack king kirby. the movie is fictionalized by these types of people who have been doing a lot of great works. i am glad to see it but it is a long time coming. >> you have been in hollywood working as an actress/creator, it is not that easy for a woman of color, led alone from a woman
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of color to get projects from start to finish. >> no, it is not. i got into comic books because i was trying to sell a film in television show and people saw the black and brown faces, we had people said to us, black people don't like science fiction because they don't see themselves in the future. that's a deep thought and it forced us into comics. it gives us another platform where the entry is lower. that's why you have a lot of creator there in those basement comic rooms that you see comic conyer con years after years trying to follow the story. >> lets look at this. this is an amazing feature that you have here. it is beautifully done. >> thank you. >> i am going to show people a few panels in here, it is jur gorgeous. this comic space has really become an open space for
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african-americans. here are some of the other pieces here. our cam guy is going to get a couple of them. they're gorgeous characters. they are a beautiful, brown scape. tell us what "concrete park" is about? >> we were inspired by the movie city of god. we like the ideology and we put that together. at the time my brother, robert alexander, a cocreator to make this world. it is off to another planet where they reproduce the triablism or would they make something new. dark horse took us up on that and we have been doing it ever since. there is a volume one and volume two. and i got a call from josh swed sweeden and i am doing his thing. what we have are sweat equity and that's what we put in. >> we are in this moment where we are talking about poverty and
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sending a box to the poor. >> the next step is literally to send the poor off to another planet. talk about "giles." "dark horse" represents "backup p buffy." >> they did a spin off of "giles," he's the watcher and he teaches buffy of all her moves. he gets -- that's coming out fey 28th. >> you had all this time on your hand. you are also working on this other work. you never take breaks, you will be at power rising. >> vote run lead is an organization, they train women the run and win. their philosophy is run as you
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are. >> yeah. >> you know and come and ready and do it. >> we'll help you do it. >> power rise is february 22nd and 25th. erika alexander will be there. >> more after the break. >> thank you. trails are covered. paths aren't what they used to be. roads nowhere to be found. ( ♪ ) and it's exactly what you're looking for. ( ♪ )
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all right, thanks for watching "am joy." alice whit is up next.
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>> you know we can spend all day talking about "black panther ftpanther." >> bye joy. >> i am alex witt. >> here is what's happening. an epic tweet unfolding today. >> it is clear now we know there is a fact there is no collusion between president trump, candidate trump or the campaign or any russian actor. now we know a fact. it did not affect the outcome of the election. >> yeah, that's the white house's position. some are saying russian meddling could have changed the 2016 outcome. and jill stein is joining me in just a minute. she was referenced in the russian indictment that she thinks she dbenefited.

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