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over security clearances and again jared kushner within the white house. but first, let's go to the nbc news exclusive. nbc news has learned that jared kushner's business discussions are the latest -- target of robert mueller's probe. they are scrutinizing whether any discussions with foreigners during the presidential transition later shaped white house policies in ways that were designed to either benefit or retaliate against those he spoke with. this is according to witnesses and other people familiar with the investigation. nbc's carol lee helped break this story. she joins me now on this. carol, this is crucial because this administration has so many conversations with so many different people, the question here is whether or not those conversations turn into policy. >> correct. and this is significant because it is the first time that we've learned that robert mueller is -- there is a -- seeing if
there is a link between conversations that jared kushner had during the presidential transition with foreigners to policy decisions that have been made in the trump white house. so that's the length. we've also learned that is new is that robert mueller's office has reached out to foreign nationals to see if they would be willing to talk as part of the investigation. we know that he's tried to reach out to turkish nationals through the fbi's office in anchora and we also know that there were qatari government officials who had discussions with kushner companies about potential business dealers who considered turning over what they say is some evidence of wrongdoing that touches on jared kushner to robert mueller's office. so those are -- this is a new development in -- and widens the scope of jared kushner and his business. >> in last few days, once again,
there has been a very bright light on jared kushner and his needs to finance his properties. sometimes through traditional means, through brarvanks and nontraditional means. the qatari government comes up in this conversation because they have sovereign well funds. and you tend to need to cast a net far and wide to get money. where is there overlap between jared kushner's business interests and his white house policy interests. >> so i'll give you one of the biggest examples and it is -- it is discussed because it was so -- it was so much in the news and that is qatar. if you look at qatar, we know that there is a prominent qatari businessman, former prime minister who had discussed with kushner companies possibly investing in this troubled fifth avenue property here in new york. we know that kushner companies discussed with the qatari government about possible business deal ings in investing
in that property. and we know there was a blockade against qatar that the white house supported -- >> led by saudi arabia. >> led by saudi arabia and the uae and others. >> and jared kushner has been rumored to have been spending time with the crown prince of saudi arabia. >> he has developed a close relationship with the crown prince of saudi arabia and the crown prince of the united arab emirates. and there are officials who feel that was retaliation for those business discussions not coming -- resulting in any sort of investment. >> so the u.s. has taken a position when it comes to the middle east that is very supportive of saudi ambitions in the area and one does have to wonder whether anything influences those decisions, or at least that is what robert mueller is trying to figure out. were the decisions taken for the right reasons or taken for some other reasons. and are they influenced. and the key here, carol, is that jared kushner has been put in charge of these portfolios. it is not random.
it is not that jared kushner might or might not be sounding in on something. middle east peace is one of his several things in his -- in his big portfolio. >> he is at tip of the spear when it comes to the president's middle east policies and deeply involved in that. and as you know, he was the go-to person during the transition for any foreign official and they just didn't have the sort of structure and setup that a traditional transition would have had. and so he was the guy. he was the one who dealt with all of the foreign officials. and at the same time, he was trying to distance himself from his company and while still being involved in the family business and trying to get this funding for this property that has more than a billion dollars in debt. >> so the question is, whether this is nefarious or whether it is what stephanie likes to say is another in a series of unforced errors by jared kushner and ivanka. thank you for your reporting. this is new reporting by nbc news. you should go and check it out.
jared kushner is also facing scrutiny over dealings between his family real estate business and companies right here in the united states. "the new york times" is reporting these questions are becoming a source of major frustration for president trump. well kushner and his wife, the president's daughter ivanka are senior advisers at the white house. that is the key sentence by the way. if jared kushner and ivanka trump were just the president's daughter and son-in-law, there may be less scrutiny on the business deals. but the kushner family real estate business has debt troubles. company searched for financing has raised concerns about possible conflict of interest. for more on this, i'm joined by new york times reporter jesse trucker. one of the authors of a piece out titled "kushner family business received loans after white house meetings." good to see you. thank you for being with us. >> thanks for having me. >> what is the implication in the reporting. jared kushner as we were reporting, takes a lot of meeting with people in this
country related to business and unusually related to things that his family business needs in terms of financing. what is your reporting told you? >> well, so back in 2017, just last year, for the first half of the year, jared kushner had a series of meetings, including some at the white house, with a guy named josh harris who is one of the founders of apollo, which is a big private equity firm. and at one point the two of them discussed a possible white house job for mr. harris. and the job never materialized, but by november of last year something else did. which is a $184 million loan from apollo to kushner companies to refinance a building that kushner owns in chicago, the at&t midwest headquarters located there. and this is by apollo standards an enormous loan. this is three times the size of the average loan that apollo gives. so the kind of chronology is jared kushner meets with an official at apollo and discusses
a possible job with him, and then when that is all done, apollo gives kushner companies enormous loan. that is one example we wrote about. the other example we wrote about is jared kushner had a meeting last spring with mike core bath, the head of citi group and shortly after that they gave a $325 million loan to kushner companies. both of these things are as far as we know fairly unpress press dentsed. a high ranking official having meetings in the white house with leaders of companies that very shortly thereafter give his company which he is still invested in sizable loans. and jared kushner stepped down for the kushner companies when he went to the white house but didn't divest his stake. he divested some portions including the stake in the 666 fifth avenue but still heavilyin investigated in the compa
investigat investigate invested in the company. >> and do we know whether any of this would have been discussed and the reason i'm asking is because if one is trying to figure out whether this was a quid quo pro -- we've figured out that jared kushner does things that don't pass ethical smell tests on any level. the idea that some of the meetings would take place don't pass an ethical smell test. that said, do we know any more about whether anything was discussed that would hint that i would like better terms from you or a loan to be closed or figured out? >> no, we don't. and the only thing that we know about the fact of one of those loans that makes it appears to be something more than a plain vanilla loan is the size of the loan with respect to other loans in apollo portfolio. but we don't know the con tents of what the two men discussed. >> we'll continue on with the reporting. thank you. new york times reporter jesse trucker. and now to the other big story
out of the white house. i've lost track and i've been on tv for nine minutes already. other big story out of the white house is the president's move to impose tariffs on steel and aluminum imports. a move that by many accounts including accounts by senior republicans doesn't make a lot of sense. why is this such a big deal? well i want to start with what a tariff like this actually is. tariffs are basically taxes on particular classes of imports or exports. the idea is to discourage companies in your kierncountry g from other countries and it protects industries from competition. sounds like a good idea. generally speaking it is not. in this case the president is focused on steel and aluminum. on steel he's proposing a 25% tariff on imports. so supposedly a business wants to import a million dollars worth of steel it would pay a $250,000 tax and for aluminum a 10% tariff. the million dollars in aluminum would incur a $100,000 tax.
and there is a conception that china is the biggest supplier. but that is not true. america's main source for steel by a very long shot is canada. brazil is number two. south korea is number three. and mexico is number four. anything they have in common. they are major u.s. allies. canada is also america's largest source for aluminum. and it is followed by russia, by the uae and china. but on steel it is none of the countries. why would they tariffs hurt? expect to pay more when you are buying a new car or canned goods orrar any home or apartment. all of the industries rely on steel and aluminum and additional fees that manufacturers will have to pay will likely be passed on to you, the consumer. but that is actually not the big deal. that is not why you should worry about this that you will pay more for a car or something like that. as i mentioned at the top of the
show, my colleague stephanie ruhle has explosive reporting about what was behind the president's surprise decision to impose these tariffs. because it was a surprise. nobody -- president has talked about this on his campaign trail. he's carried on about it but most people think it wouldn't make sense to impose a 25% tariff on steel. so how did it happen? >> he carried on about this on the campaign trail like he did a lot of things. the market doesn't ever respond to that rhetoric. because most -- >> it ignores it. >> most isn't fact-based and doesn't come to fruition. and we would go on and on by china being a currency manipulator and then in office he said here are the fakes. but he's still joined by wilbur ross and peter navarro and they have the fringe views. >> let me stop you. pete ear navarro operates outside of the mainstream of economic hawk but a big hawk on clooin. but wilbur ross is the commerce secretary, a member of the cabinet. >> without a doubt. and now peter navarro, gary
cohn's said you are not here and steve munchin didn't want him and so he is wilbur ross's side kick. and he was on the outs with president trump and there is reporting about his snoozing off on wednesday. he wasn't on wednesday. the president was unhinged. an embarrassing day. the pressure of the russia investigation and the paul manafort indictments and being arraigned coming out this week. but wednesday specifically hope hicks resigns, john kelly downgrades the jared kushner substantial clearance. >> and john kelly said i must have done something bad in my last life why god punished me by making me chief of staff. >> and he doesn't have rob porter blocking him, guarding him from everyone slinking in. >> and john kelly was on the outs so he didn't have john kelly stopping people from getting into his office, guess who got in. wilbur ross. he was looking for a fight and he said i will deliver one to u.
china on trade. he doesn't tell anyone else. wilbur ross scheduled a meeting with steel executives at white house at 11:00 a.m. on thursday. he did not alert the white house to who those people were. so there wasn't any vetting, there wasn't secret service clearance. and in retrospect the white house told my colleagues who work the on the story with me, some of these people -- have already been at the white house. it w it was -- it was fine. but wilbur ross pushed forward and the defense and treasury department the state department had no idea and no chance to weigh in. by midnight, just get your head around this, there is no approved remarks for the president to say. there is no diplomatic strategy of how we're going to tell our foreign allies. >> canadians, mexicans and south koreans. >> there is no legislative strategy to inform congress and the white house counsel office was doing a review of how we could look at tariffs and it wasn't going to be done for forge week and a half to two
weeks. >> and you have jeff flake and john mccain come out in opposition. and we have mike lee of utah and orrin hatch who don't come out in opposition to the president and others, a lot of other republicans saying, this makes zero sense. >> zero sense. it is simply isn't combatting -- we've discussed this. there is a problem with china. this doesn't combat it. so by yesterday afternoon when president trump in the oval office was surprised and upset by the market going down, he's then surrounded by the steve mun munchin and the kelly and -- light s lighthizer. >> and we've been telling -- investors, don't get too craze by about volatility. and i want to take a look at the dow. it is down almost 1%. 220 points. this is not the normal volatility. what you are looking at today and the drops you saw yesterday on the stock market are not the
normal volatility in the market. it has nothing to do with bond yields and interest rates going up and this is bad policy from the president of the united states that investors say doesn't make sense. >> and what kind of white house is operating like this. someone in the white house said to me, this is -- since when did the commerce department take over the white house. from wednesday at around 6:00 p.m. until thursday midday, that is what happened. so while wilbur ross turned down an invitation to interview with us today, i saw him on cnbc saying it is no big deal. he picked up a beer can and a can of campbell's soup. >> the idea your beer won't cost more is not the relevant part. the number of people employed by companies that buy and kmum steel that is more expensive in the united states versus the number of people in the steel nurse, it is 45 to 1. so you hurt 45 people for every one you conceivably benefit. it is not clear that you benefit the steel worker.
so you made a comment and said china is an issue. if we are looking at trade issues with china, there are things to look at. mostly it is intellectual property. >> not this. this is the wrong fight. >> welcome to 1982. wilbur ross and donald trump are getting if a fight from the gordon gecko erach a and we says often when he does things off the grid, people could leave the white house over this. we said that before. but in this one, people are very angry. >> thank you very much. see us tomorrow the 12:30. john kelly is releasing a timeline scheduled to address many weeks ago about the handling of staff secretary rob porter. kelly defended himself to reporters saying, he had, quote, absolutely nothing to consider resigning over after several questions about job secret. with me now from the white house is hans nichols. it is a little weird when one is
asked about a time line and it does take weeks to respond because it leads people to wonder whether you are spending that time assembling a time line that makes sense. in the days after rob porter's departure from the white house, the timelines didn't match up. general kelly said something -- sarah huckabee-sanders said other things and other people figured out other things. they were not telling the truth back then. what do we know now. >> reporter: there is intervening time between the initial incident and what kelly is saying now about the time line. namely on whether or not he offered to resign. he is saying today definitively in this briefing with reporters he had no reason to offer his rhis resignation and the new york said he was thinking about it. there is so much in terms of the additional timeline from kelly. here is his version of events. he's trying to explain why he put out a laudtory statement about rob porter after it was publicly known that he potentially physically abused
one -- one of his ex-wives. what kelly's version is on february 6th, he heard about emotional abuse from kelly and that is where the -- excuse me, from porter and that is when porter resigned. and then a couple of hours later based on pre-- press inquiries,t reports, this is kelly's version. that -- and in between then and later on in the evening when he found out there could have been physical abuse, it is that timeline that they are trying to explain. kelly is being somewhat honest in saying we didn't cover ourselves in glory and the way the white house handled this on wednesday. that is february 7th. but at same time, he's not personally accepting any blame. so there is a collective guilt here but no admission of responsibility. >> thank you very much. at the white house. this story continues to unfold. live pictures of the president and first lady landing in palm beach florida, heading to
mar-a-largo where they will spend the weekend. coming up next, he said -- and he said just how tough the president is feeling on guns. it all depends on who you ask. after trump shocked us with an embrace of gun control this week, he had a meeting with the nra last night. he said e seemed to backtrack after the meeting with what else -- a tweet. i'll be joined by the former prime minister of australia, a company that took action following a mass shooting and it worked. you may be at increased risk for pneumococcal pneumonia, that can take you out of the game for weeks,
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less than 24 hours after telling lawmakers not to fear the national rifle association, the president met with the nra top lobbyists in the oval office and apparently that meeting went great. according to the president's tweet. in fact it started by saying it went good and then put great in par an the-- parenthesis. and sarah huckabee-sanders tried to clear things up this morning. >> i don't think the nra has concerns with this president. he is very committed to supporting the second amendment and looking for ways that we can promote school safety and reduce gun viems. this is something that we've been having ongoing conversations and the president made clear he wants to talk to all of the big stakeholders in this process. >> and it has been 16 days since the school shooting in parkland florida that killed 17 students and teachers. so far there hasn't been a concrete bill from congress to put on the floor for a vote or any of the most recent mass shootings in this country.
but for one country is only took one tragedy to get the government to act. in april of 1996 australia suffered the worst mass killing in australia. it is important to talk about this again. a 28-year-old man opened fire in port arthur and 25 people were killed and 23 were wounded. within three months the national firearms agreement was introduced and passed by bipartisan support. it outlawed semi-automatic and background checks that require a justifiable reason to own a gun. by buy-back program collected 640,000 firearms and another program last year brought in 26,000 more weapons. and what is more, unlike the second amendment, the law is not frozen in time in australia. it gets a periodic review to see whether changes are needed. what a neat idea. since it took effect, australia
has had zero mass shootings. here in the united states, the ten deadliest shootings have happened in the past five and a half years. i think i have the wrong thing. but when the prime minister of australia mal couple turnbull visited the white house a week ago, it wasn't to send a message about gun control. >> it is a completely different context, historically legally and so forth. we are very satisfied with our laws. we maintain them. they're there and well-known. you've referred to them. but we certainly don't presume to provide policy or political advice on that matter here. >> now while it is not policy that donald trump follows but other world leaders when they are visiting answer in a diplomatic fashion like. >> that they say this is how we do it in our country but we don't presume to tell what you to do. but i have an advantage here. i don't have the current prime
minister of australia who is limited i have kevin rudd, now the president of the policy institute and we talk about matters having to do with asia but i want to bring you in, because you are not constrained by office or a guest of the president of the united states right now. if malcolm turnbull were thought limited by what he wants to say, what would australians say to america about being able to deal with the gun issue and the reason i ask is that australians are outdoorsy and many hunters who take ownership of guns seriously. >> well it is true. i grew up in a farm in rural australia. i state which i remind my president bush at the time was three times the size of texas. lots of wild animals, according to your news programs here in america now that i live in new york, we have some of the wildest, deadliest critters in the world. but you could never convince an australian farmer that he needs
a semi automatic weapon. my father had a single action shotgun that he used once or twice a year. so i think the whole argument that you need to be armed to the hilt to fight the good fight on the front is just nuts, . >> so there is space between confiscating guns which the nra said someone will do when they talk about gun control and imposing restrictions on how and who gets the weapons. new york times has written a great article called how to buy a gun in 15 countries. the interesting part is the united states -- it is basically two steps. it is get an instant background check in many states and buy a gun. in australia, you join a club or you prove collector status and complete a safety course and take an exam and make sure that you establish safe storage and there is a background review, it is more thorough than the one we do here and then apply for a permit and wait 28 or more days and then you buy a gun. so in the end, a hunter or somebody with a reason to have a gun, will get their gun, most
likely if they don't get disqualified for what the australian government thinks is a justifiable reason. >> take me for example. when i was a member of parliament and i represented the labor party i was a paton of my local sporting shooting association. the guys would go out and shoot at targets and they are honest law-abiding folks and belong to the club and get the guns and they can't understand either why you need a semi automatic weapon. it is not about sporting or an olympic sport. that is about something quite different. again, so i think the nra is a great lie in this country of the united states, is to try to confuse this debate about confiscating everyone's weapons on one hand with withdrawing this exceptionally lethal category of weapons, semi-automatic and fully automatic weapons which could blast away and kill a hundred people in 60 seconds. that is the whole point. to take that weapon of mass
destruction away from a single shooter. >> right. let me just pivot quickly because you have been a prime minister and you've been very involved in global trade. i want to talk about the trade issues going on here. this surprise tariff that we've got that the president is proposing on steel. there is concern and the market are reacting to it. there is concern this could trigger a trade war. tell me how this works. if you are a country trading with the united states and it imposed a tariff on something you send to the united states, how do world leaders react? >> first thing you do is take advice to take the case straightaway to the world trade objection. a team of experts look at it and go through it. that is what i think these american trade partners will do. but after expiring 60 days or 90 days it is within their power to take action, retaliatory against the united states. so i would not underestimate the likelihood of this coming from republic of korea and canada can
speak for itself and i haven't followed the politics and where do we end up with a world trade war on steel that breaks into other categories of trade like boeing. what will china do in the implementation. >> a country growing and required more aircraft and puts in more orders every year. >> to take it one step further, one of the reasons we enjoy the strong trade relationships is because you don't go to war with countries you are trading with. and those countries tend to be allied with you on other fronts. so in looking at north korea and we need an alleyed asia getting no a trade fight with south korea doesn't make a lot of sense right now. >> if you are sitting in the blue house in seoul, you would be scratching your head. the united states wants to work with us closely on dealing with the north koreans, fine. tick. and they are allies and about to declare war on a steel industry. that is a problem. it is the same person in every country's administration who ultimately makes these
decisions. so for maintaining the alliance structure alone, i'll be very careful if i was the white house undertaking such a broad based economic attack against your friends in our part of the world. >> good to talk to you. thank you for being with us. kevin rudd, the former prime minister of australia and the president of the asia society policy institute. and let's look at the dow. now off two-thirds of a percent. and come back quite a bit through the course of the day. maybe as responses coming in to the president's proposal to impose a tax tariff on steel. perhaps investors are realizing it may not come to pass but we'll continue to cover that. coming up, the list grows, more companies are taking gun control in their own hands pushing back against the gun industry. a statement from dick's sporting goods, the first retailer to take a stand by no longer sell ago salt style rifles and restricting sales of guns an high-capacity magazines to buyers 21 and old. and the ceo said, quote, we know that not everyone agrees with our actions and we respect that.
even as strong supporters of the second amendment we feel now is the time to have meaningful discussion about common sense reform with the intent of finding a solution. we'll be right back. thread i see every time i'm in the field. while this was burning, you were saving other homes. neighbors helping neighbors and strangers alike. - this is what america's about. - sometimes it's nice to see all the good that's out there. bringing folks out, we have seen it in community after community. the mountain like i used to. i even accept i have a higher risk of stroke due to afib, a type of irregular heartbeat not caused by a heart valve problem. but whatever trail i take, i go for my best. so if there's something better than warfarin, i'll go for that too. eliquis. eliquis reduced the risk of stroke better than warfarin, plus had less major bleeding than warfarin. eliquis had both. don't stop taking eliquis unless your doctor tells you to, as stopping increases your risk of having a stroke. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding.
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a number of high-profile retailers are rethinking the relationship with the firearms industry. rei and ll bean are making changes and joining dick's and kroger on taking action. rei, i like the company, a retailer of out door gear because i'm an out door guy. they don't sell guns. when i saw the headline i thought, what is this all about. let's take a look. all right. they said -- rei said they would halt all orders coming from vista out door. do i know what they have? no. but they own savage arms, a company that manufacturers guns. according to rei they put the dealings on hold until the company outlines a plan of action to deal with firearms. here is why -- let's go back. and pull that back. i haven't finished with that. can we go back. vista outdoor sells camelback. the backpacks with the water in them. bell helmets and bushnell
binoculars and optics. that is why it is interesting. to the next one, ll bean, another large camping and out door goods retailer. under like rei, l.l. bean does sell firearms. they tweeted in the wake of the shooting, we have reviewed our policy of firearms sales and we will no longer be selling guns or ammunition to anyone under the age of 21. now i want to move to the fallout from delta airlines cutting ties with the nra. the company is no longer offering a discount to members traveling to the association's annual meeting. that wasn't that big of a deal. it is become quite a fire storm. but delta hub is in atlanta. the worldwide hub is in atlanta which is the reason why atlanta is the busiest in the world. the gop house in florida voted to kill legislation to give the airlines a tax break of more than $40 million. $50 million almost for delta. today the ceo sent a memo to
employees saying, while delta 's intent was to remain neutral, some elected officials tied our decision to a pending jet fuel tax exception threatening to eliminate unless we reversed course. our decision was not made for check game and our values not for sale and we are in the process of a reviewed group discounts of any group of a politically divisive nature. and i'm joined by greg. good to see you. >> thanks for having me. >> greg, i have been -- i've been sort of saying -- i lived in atlanta for a while. i think georgia needs delta more than delta needs georgia. >> it is a foundational company for georgia. it is been here for decades, since moving from mississippi and it is the largest private employer in the state of georgia with more than 30,000 employees so it is part and parcel. >> that is trivia. it was named after the mississippi delta and it became a major airline. but it became a major airline
and it employs -- i think the biggest in atlanta. about 33,000 employees in the georgia area. delta argues that it brings about $45 billion worth of money into the state every year. >> it is one of the reasons why atlanta airport is the busiest in the world. and lobbiest have been pushing more years to try to get this fuel sales tax exemption back on the books in georgia. they had it in the early 2000s but then lost it after looking for extra money to boost infrastructure and this seems like the year to get that become until the tweet on da where they cut ties with the nra. >> again, this is not that big of a deal. they gave a discount to people who were flying on delta to the nra convention. this isn't even as big as a the other companies that actually have -- have a credit card with the nra or whatever the case is. the reaction almost seems outsized. >> and delta said today that only 13 people actually got that
discount. >> 13 -- >> in the history -- 13. so that shows you this is more symbolic. and once delta made that announcement there was an uproar. delta said they didn't like having their logo on the nra website and looks like they were taking sides in a political debate and they announced they will review all of the discounted rates to make sure they are staying out of a political debate. and georgia lawmakers had a different sense. they said that delta had been trying to interfere for years before this, including with the religious liberty debate that rages for few years and raising taxes for infrastructure projects. >> governor cuomo of new york is joining other governors. he said delta, our offer still stands. ed bastion, give me a call. good to talk to you. greg a reporter at the atlanta journal constitution. up next, a leak of documents from russian election trolls shows while the russians were
trying to affect our legislation we weren't keeping their own affairs secret. we'll have a leak from the troll farms after this break. se, oh! ♪ (shrieks in terror) (heavy breathing and snorting) no, no. the running of the bulldogs? surprising. what's not surprising? how much money aleia saved by switching to geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more.
were using those sites to push out misinformation and propaganda. remember this is the same group that was indicted by robert mueller for intentionally conspiring to defraud the united states. this leak of information shows even more ways that the russians were able to spread disinformation and discord across america. we now know that they used reddit and tumbler on top of youtube, facebook and twitter. which makes me safe because i've never used reddit or tumbler. and joining me ben collins from the daily beast. soon to be an nbc news reporter as long as this interview goes well. good to see you. >> good to see you. >> let's talk about the few things -- a lot of complication. but let's talk about the few things we know. a few more things we know as a result -- this is a leak. they leaked their information. >> right. >> it got leaked? >> this was either a leak or a hack. so they either have a snowden of their own, taking all of the stuff and putting it on the internet, and they tried to auction it off for bitcoin on a russian exchange site. >> whoever hacked it with the
information. >> but no one knew what it was. it was badly labelled and a year ago. so no one literally bid on this. so i think the most important thing to take away is that it is out there. the keys to this investigation, if they colluded with the campaign, it is probably on the server. and it is probably out there. >> so that is one piece of information. piece of information two which is interesting is that we knew that those trolls had been involved in activism in the united states. trying to get people to have rallies and to protest and do things and we now much more detail. a lot revolves around activities in buffalo and stone mountain outside of atlanta. >> the stone mountain is more interesting because there was a protest and proconfederate rally and then the troll farms egged it on both sides here and with -- i would say pretty good precision on tumbler and facebook, created this other thing called a not my heritage rally. which they tied on to other local groups and staging a
counter protest any way. at that protest, things got violent with police. not that violent but a little violent. and r.t. was there with a video to take this in stone mountain, georgia of all places. >> people in atlanta don't -- you have to go to stone mountain for a weekend but not think it is a thing that you cover. >> i would assume if you are leaving in st. petersburg or mosq moscow is important. >> and they identify specific people who are likely to be activist and got into conversations with them. >> one of martin luther king's deputies or ancestors was targeted as one of the people. and they are random people. the 80-year-olds that are on facebook. a woman who worked at tim horton's, regular people mixed in with activists and that is how we found out. we called the people and said do they dates line up and people talk to you in this leak? and they did. >> i'm assuming the tim hortan was in the buffalo area. >> yes, it was. in buffalo. >> let me tell you as a
canadian. let's talk about reddit and tumble err. and it is one of the places sited as a very interesting, sometimes is infiltrated by a lot of the trolls. >> and this is the first confirmation that the actual troll farm used it. it is a trolling platform i would say. it has good and bad. but this is the first time -- this leak advertising american proxies that were able to check out that used reddit. they would not talk to us about this. this is a big thing. they sort of cut off communication after we sent them documents. which is a little weird. and there was a meme they were using. and on reddit, it is mostly young men and that is --s that donald trump's base. >> and good to have you here. thank you. >> absolutely. >> good interview and you dropped tim horton so you could stay. ben collins from the daily beast soon to join us here at nbc. up next, president trump tweeted that a trade war could
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losing many billions of dollars on trade with with virtually every country is does business with, trade wars are good and easy to win. example, when we are down 100 billion with a certain country and they get cute, don't trade any more. we win big. it's easy. yeah, that was actually a tweet by the president of the united states. trade wars are anything but easy, and they always cause more harm than good. i'm joined by edwin alden, senior fellow at the council on foreign relations. i can't sort of believe i'm having a serious conversation with a serious scholar like you, edward, on a ridiculous tweet like that. let's take it at face value because the president did tweet it they're good and easy to win. give me a little context here. >> i don't know of anyone who thinks a trade war is good and easy to win. i mean, the last time the world had genuine trade wars was in the 1930s and that did not end well. i mean, i suppose what the president is thinking is because the united states is the world's largest market and we buy more
from the world than we sell to the world, that we would be relatively better off in a trade war than other countries, and that might be true. but the world and the united states would all be a lot worse off. >> what of the president's argument that america buys more from everywhere else than itself? is that valid? >> oh, yeah, no question. i mean, not everywhere else, but certainly a fair number of countries. china, japan, mexico, germany. we run large trade deficits with all of those countries. some of that's self-inflicted because of the large budget deficits we run and because we are just a consumption heavy country. we love imported stuff. but some of it almost certainly has to do with trading range. that's the legitimate part of the president's complaint. but as a means for going after it, these steel tariffs are utterly self-defeating. >> my producer was mentioning
bethlehem steel which provided metal for a lot of the building of the northeast is now a casino. do we really believe that these things are going to bring steel back in the way the president talks about, coal coming back because of energy policies he wants to put into place? >> well, i mean, steel is not coming back anything like it used to be. the united states still produces a lot of steel, to be -- we just do it with a lot fewer workers because it's heavily mechanized. the united states imports about 30% of its steel. even if you cut that figure significantly, you've got 87,000 jobs in the steel industry. you know, maybe you could add 5 or 10,000 jobs, but that would be far more than offset by the job losses in all the industries that rely on reasonably priced steel. auto industry or construction equipment, things like caterpillar and deere. this is a net jobs loss. >> the market seems to agree
with you. after being off we're almost going to close flat people seem to realize lots of people are against us and it doesn't seem like a smart idea. edward, thank you for being with us. >> good to be with you. >> senior fellow on the council of foreign relations. we'll be right back. so that's the idea. what do you think? i don't like it. oh. nuh uh. yeah. ahhhhh. mm-mm. oh. yeah. ah. agh. d-d-d... no. hmmm. uh... huh. yeah. uh... huh. in business, there are a lot of ways to say no. thank you so much. thank you.
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this, thank you, is donald trump saying trade wars are good and trade wars are easy. that brings the week to an end for me. thank you for watching. deadline with nicolle wallace starts right now. >> hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. the white house war within, which was once largely waged through proxies and guerrilla leaks to reporters is now playing out in full view. the president's son-in-law under a seemingly ceaseless barrage of devastating headlines like this brand-new one from nbc's investigative unit. breaking news this afternoon, special counsel robert mueller's team has asked witnesses about kushner's efforts to secure financing for his family's real estate properties. focusing specifically on his discussions during the transition with individuals from qatar and turkey as well as russia, china and the uae. according to witnesses who have been interviewed as part of the investigation into possible collusion between russia and the trump campaig