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tv   The Beat With Ari Melber  MSNBC  April 2, 2018 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT

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obit a obituaries call her ruthless. she believed in her people, saying i am the product of the masses and my country and the product of my enemy. winnie mandela, a furious, passionate and unrepentant fighter was 81. that's all for mtp daily, the bite starts now with my friend, stephanie ruhle. >> i'm stephanie ruhle in for my friend ari melber. is president trump rolling out the red carpet for vladimir putin. trump suggested a meeting with putin at the white house when they spoke by phone last month. the white house seeming to confirm the report, saying he and putin discussed having a meeting in the not so distant future. and it could be at a number of venues, one could be the white
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house. but president trump didn't say anything about location. >> i had a call with president putin and congratulated him on the victory, his electoral victory. the call had to do, also, with the fact that we will probably get together in the not too distant future. >> remember, even that congratula congratulatory call raised serious questions. why would president trump want to rewashed vladimir putin with a white house visit after the election hack and the poisoning of a fwormormer spy in england. and why did we first learn about this from russians? even some of the president staunchest defenders can't explain his relationship with putin. >> whatever we're doing is not working and the president for some reason has a hard time
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pushing back against putin directly. >> even if you think there's no money laundering. even if you think there's no collusion, why? why is president trump so intent on being so nice to vladimir putin? we'll have a great panel to weigh in, max boot and my friend bill kristol. max, to you first, why is a putin meeting a big deal? you who really understands this could be losing your mind, but the average person at home could say who cares? they have meetings all the time. >> putin is not a good guy. he has committed aggression against the west on a daily basis. he is committing war crimes in syria he just used a very exotic nerve agent to try to kill two people in great britain, our ally. so the proper policy of the united states is to tell putin
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you can't get away with this. we're going to stand with our allies against this kind of aggression. and there are people who are trying to send that message, for example by pushing for the expulsion of russian diplomats, he loves putin too much. and so his national security council says in big block letters, do not congratulate putin on his rigged reelection, and trump can't help himself, he has to congratulate putin, and it probably didn't occur to them to say, don't invite putin to the white house, because this is a favor you roll out to leaders that you're trying to woo. >> trump has always made the argument, bill kristol, i'm going to try something different. could he make the argument, inviting putin over for a playdate is a good strategy? the playdate is the only way i can think of it. you should not reward a hostile
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power with an invite. but he's saying come on over. >> i think he needs a time out instead of a playdate. >> conservatives and hawks, they were critical of the obama administration for being too soft on putin for not making him pay much of consequence for the things he did, whether it was invading ukraine or tampering with our electoral process and now poisoning someone on uk soil, british soil and a message to others. don't mess with us. it's been underappreciated. if he gets away with that, if they pay no price for that, what russian emigre, what person speaking up against russia, not even a russian will feel safe. the head of the alliance of which britain is such an important part, invites putin to
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the white house in weeks of that happening. it's a shocking weakness in american foreign policy. i'm just reading john bolton attacking the obama administration on being too weak on putin, i agree with some of those attacks, and now a national security visors to someone who's gone how much further than president obama did. >> we can't seem to figure out why the president is so complementary or at least not tough on russia and putin. why does it matter that we keep learning about this stuff from russians? is it that the white house is keeping secrets? or let's be honest. we know this white house is not organized. at very best, the communication team has limited information. john kelly is not on all the calls, and they're playing defense all day long. >> well, steph, it's not just a messaging issue. this is a substantive issue, and it provides a source of leverage to the russians that they have
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consistently provided the official account, the readout of these meetings or phone calls, hours in some cases before the white house has done so. look, in this case, what's important is had this comment not been made, we may not have learned of this invitation. and the timing of this comment from the crekremlin aide is interesting. there's reason to think that it may have been made to embarrass president trump. of course this revelation comes just days after president trump and some of our european allies together expelled 60 russian spies from our country alone, with dozens mosh from europre f. we have been so focixated on th issue of leverage or financialal leverage. but we've forgotten the fact that donald trump routinely has given our allies and adversaries
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alike, additional points of leverage. this is one of those points of leverage. the russians rolled this out according to their schedule in an effort to embarrass him. let's assume that the "washington post" hadn't reported last spring that trump had called comey a nutjob no the oval office. if they had kept that and rolled that out according to their own timing, that, too, would have been a source of leverage. how many other sources, how many other points of leverage are out there that we just don't know about, that president trump has doled out to our friends and i think most worrisome, to our foes. >> how about robert mueller's refrnl? we know that the mueller investigation is getting broader and deeper. could that be motivating donald trump and his action? when i watch allies of the president go after mueller. this is a guy, a republican who is, who ran the fbi. i want to say ran the fbi, has a
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purple heart, is ivy league educated. i scratch my head when they continue to go after this guy. what is it? >> well, it's the old adage that if you can't beat the case in court you have to beat the table. and they're beating the table right now. they're trying to discredit robert mueller, because donald trump is terrified of what mueller is going to come up with, and what mueller is looking at is this very strange relationship between donald trump and vladimir putin and the trump campaign and the kremlin. there there's already a circumstantial case of solution, a more than circumstantial case that trump has committed obstruction of justice. they're trying to beat up the prosecutor and soften him up. what this might be leading to is an attempt by trump to fire mueller or get rid of sessions or rosenstein.
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whatever is going on, donald trump is clearly worried. yet, this is what makes his outreach to putin all the more bizarre, trump's own interest to appear tough on putin. the more that he invites putin for a playdate at the white house the more he gives fodder to this impression that there is something nefarious about his relationship. and yet he keeps on doing it, which makes you wonder, is he afraid of what vladimir putin has on him. >> can you comment on that? they beat mueller up left and center, but it doesn't stick, because the guy has a stellar reputation, and trump continues to do things that make you scratch your head saying, yeah, guess you really do like those russians, huh. >> if where i -- if i were in trump's shoes, he's trying to discredit the investigator. it's the o.j. defense, if you can't beat the rap on the
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merits, you create enough confusion and reasonable doubt that at least the people who want to believe you can stick with you. and that, trump has succeeded in doing. mueller, thank god is still more popular than trump. mueller needs some help and i think some of us will make the case for mueller. we should let the investigation go. but it's not as if republicans on the hill are rising up steadfastly saying that mueller shouldn't be fired. trump has laid the basis for getting rid of mueller. he also has the sense that boldness pays off. if he has putin here and there's no huge reaction, if people from congress coop eat wime and eat putin, it makes us look like the ones who are crying wolf. i think trump, in a way, knows what he's doing. >> that's a great point.
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we can call it buffoonery all day long, but that guy's sitting in the white house. he's got some kind of strategy working. in the mueller probe tonight there's new reports of robert mueller examining former trump adviser roger stone's contacts wi with wikileaks. he wrote an e-mail to sam nunberg, a favorite of this specific pro garagram saying hed with assange last night. he claims it was a joke. if that was a joke, where was the punch line. he's a regular, he said i didn't think stone was joking. >> he'll say, look, i wasn't lying, i was joking. the joke is essentially on me, because that's one of the primary reasons i got called in. >> was it a joke? i don't, that's not the way i recollect it. that's not the way i recall it.
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>> is that a no? >> was it a joke? i didn't think it was a joke. >> and remember, sam nunberg, a massive defender of roger stone. what is mueller's team looking for? >> they have to sort through the complexities that may or may not be true. we saw the e-mail, we don't have it in our possession. roger stone sent an e-mail saying he dined with julian assange. he sent us a flight booking. there's no way for us to verify it. but it showed him being in miami and l.a. dining doesn't physically mean
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being there. mab he caug maybe he caught him on the phone during dinner. prosecutors say there's no fine print there. >> if i had dinner, if i dined with you last night, it means we broke bread, it means salad, soup, advertiseppetizer. are you kidding? >> there has not been any sort of prove. delta, for privacy reasons, won't tell us whether he was on this flight he said he was on. the big picture here, if you look at the timeline, the e-mail came days after president trump called on russia to find clinton's missing e-mails and it also came days after paul manafort's contact with constantine calemnic. and days after this, roger stone praised julian assange on wikileaks and continued to do so, predicting it would be
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podesta's time in the barrel. and for that tweet, he meant showing up in the panama papers which were published earlier in 2016. >> you can't make this up. >> it shows how difficult it might be for the special counsel's office. they obviously know more than we do. but it can be difficult when you're looking at statements. you're not sure if they're true. >> max, what do you make of this? and do you want to dine with me over the phone? >> absolutely, that will be a new experience, virtual dining. it seems to me, and we don't know everything that robert mueller knows and he surprises us time after time. but even based on what we know, it seems there is a pretty compelling case of collusion of which this piece about roger stone is just one of the pieces of the puzzle. we know there were more than 70
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contacts in 2016 between the trump campaign and the kremlin. we know that george papadopoulos, who was a trump foreign policy adviser knew in advance about the stolen russian e-mails from the dnc. it looks like roger stone knew in advance about some of these stolen e-mail that were going to be leaked out. you can argue about who was dining with whom or whatever, but when you look at the whole smorgasbord, it adds up to a pretty damning picture, i would say. it's going to be fascinating to see what robert mueller will make of it. >> a real smorgasbord, not a virtual one. this makes me feel bad for political and crime novelists. because half this, what could you make up? real life is so bizarre. when we come back, president
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trump's bizarre message to 5-year-olds. >> we've never had an economy like we have right now. and we're going to make it big ira bigger and better and stronger. >> i don't know how many kids thinking about $700 billion. but i'm thinking about sinclair. the propaganda machine. we're going to talk to a former sinclair anchor. also mark zuckerberg hating back at his rival or another big tech ceo, tim cook of apple and he gives a timeline for fix being facebook. i am stephanie ruhle in for arimelber. i'm always on call. an insulin that fits my schedule is key. ♪ tresiba® ready ♪ (announcer) tresiba® is used to control high blood sugar in adults with diabetes. don't use tresiba® to treat diabetic ketoacidosis, during episodes of low blood sugar, or if you are allergic to any of its ingredients. don't share needles or insulin pens.
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welcome back. i'm stephanie ruhle. today president trump is making an appearance at the annual white house easter egg roll. and there were a lot of things he didn't cover today. notably, the markets, which tumbled amid a brewing trade war or at least skirmish with china. instead, with an easter bunny standing at his side, he touted the economy and the military. >> we have never had an economy like we have right now. and we're going to make it bigger and better and stronger. our military is now at a level, it will soon be at a level that it's never been before. think of700 billion, because that's all going into our military this year. >> he also responded to a reporter question about
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immigration in front of a group of kids. again, i said at that before, 5-year-olds, kindergartners who are there to see the easter bunny. >> now people are taking advantage of daca, and that's a shame. it should have never happened. >> daca, joining me now, michael steele and msnbc political analyst. what was your take on the president's performance today? >> the man has no time and place awareness. that's clearly it. you know, this is a big festive occasion, like you said, there are a bunch of 4 and 5-year-olds all over the lawn, little easter eggs and bunnies running around. to use that as a messaging point on the military and daca and other things to me is tone-deaf to the occasion. i get it, you want to get your message out there, but leave that for others who can have
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those conversations with the press on the side while you talk about, you know, the joys of the easter season and having these kids here, family and those types of things. so time and place awareness, it does matter. >> how about his message being factually correct? there's this talk with more members of the sort of establishment cabinet gone. gary cohn's living but still in the building. hope hicks is gone. rob porter, no longer in the building. people are saying this is trump unleashed. >> it is. this is probably the freest donald trump has felt as president. period. he's looking around, and he's saying all those folks who were requesti going to be there to block and defend for him have been run out. those who were there to control and manage him have been run out. so, from his perspective, those who are left do not have what it takes to stand up to him and even control the messaging, let
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alone what he's going to do. >> how about, michael, fact checking. how do other republicans -- >> what does that -- >> you talk to establishment republicans all day every day. how can they stand with the president when he goes after daca, blaming democrats, when he ended it. he makes no mention of the stock market, excuse me, he mentions the market and the great economy. >> right. >> and he doesn't reference china putting in place tariffs. and to go after amazon, saying they're not paying their fair share, you could hate the game and want to change the rules, but amazon is working and paying within the confinements of the law. >> right. so what's your point? >> if i'm paul ryan, if i'm mitch mcconnell. >> you think paul ryan's going to respond to this? >> and say right on, brother. >> paul ryan's not going to come out and say the president was factually incorrect on that. he hasn't done that. he won't do that.
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there is no will inside the republican establishment on the hill. >> why? >> to present the counter narrative. because the president's got them by the short of their voter base, and the fact of the matter is, the president's style, his messaging and his impromptu character or nature is something that animates that base. until that changes for a lot of these members, they're not going to take that penalty point. there's no reason to do it. it's unfortunate. we'll see what happens come november. and if they lose the house because of their failure to step up as you're saying, then we'll see how they respond going into 2020. but right now, you know, stephanie, there's no incentive for them to do that, because we haven't seen them do it up to this point. they're not going to start this easter weekend with that. this is just not there. >> trade wars, president trump says they're good, easy to win. we'll see how that plays out. ahead, the largest owner of
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tv stations across the country now under fire after a local anchor, his own anchors push trump's fake news message and some are saying i don't want to do it. also a trump ally, chris christie blasting a trump staffer's ethics. trump is using the power and prestige of his office to line his own pockets. richard painter joins me next. if he'd taken tylenol, he'd be stopping for more pills right now. only aleve has the strength to stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. tylenol can't do that. aleve. all day strong. all day long. and for pain relief and a good night's rest, try aleve pm for a better am.
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welcome back. i'm stephanie ruhle in for ari melber. a conservative television empire under fire accused of parroting donald trump's talking points about the media. sinclair broadcasting. never heard of them? they have almost 200 local tv stations across the country, and they are on the front pages after a video went viral, featuringne
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featuring news anchors reciting this manuscript. in an internal memo, obtained by nbc news, sinclair executives are defending themselves saying the critics are now upset about our well-researched journalistic initiative, focussed on fair and objective reporting. let's break this down. joining me now is curt clieet, dave truedell, and renaldo marriotty. i turn to you, because it was your tweet that said this is the company that is going to take over tribune soon, along with the 42 tv stations it own. if that doesn't concern you, it should. tell us why it should. >> well, what we're seeing is a company that is pushing a far-right agienda that is takin
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over more and more local tv stations across this country, there are many parts of this country that might only have one power two local television stations and people don't always realize that what they're getting is not an objective recitation of the news. these anchors that have local reputations that people have learn to trust over the years are being hijacked by a corporate agenda and will ultimately, what's happening is people are getting fed a one-sided propaganda. and frankly, it's a concern. >> but ronaldo, where could it go? because the average person could look at what those anchors said and say i don't know, taken one at a time, it doesn't sound so bad. and don't tv anchors read scripts? so with the person out there with that response to these videos, what do you say? >> what i think makes this country great is having a diversity of voices, and right
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now we have a presidency that is trying to stifle the free press, trying to stifle the people who can be a check or challenge to the president. and here we have sinclair broadcasting that is very tight with the administration, where frankly, jared kushner and others have said that we've struck deals and we've given favorable treatment to sinclair. what i'm concerned about is that there isn't a diversity of views. let the anchors, if these views are so, have so much merit, let the anchors come to those conclusions on their own instead of feeding them from a corporate headquarters. >> okay, kirk, you worked for sinclair for five years. you were not there after president trump won the election or jared kushner struck this dial. but tell me what it's like inside, the editorial pressures that may exist if they do. >> well, stephanie, this is not the first time sinclair has tried something like this.
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right after 9/11 i was out of the country for fox 45 wbff. but at that time, with great angst in the newsroom, the reporters were compelled to do something very similar. raiding reading a statement on how think supported president bush's war on terrorism. a friend of mine over the weekend contacted me and say what is so bad about this announcement? what they're doing here, everybody knows in propaganda, the most important thing you can do in propaganda is repeat the same message over and over again. what sinclair is doing is says oh, no, we would never do anything to bring you fake news. that's just not going to happen. it's all these other people we are concerned about and worried about, while they are the company that more than any other, with their forced-run
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comment te comment tear ey commentaries. like what is this coming out of my television from a station i used to know and trust. you have these extreme commentaries coming from this station, a very cookie cutter way that is not good for america. we've come so far from the days. when i started in the media, it was 1975. and there used toen be a rule called 7, 7, 7, 7 rule. we had a man named jim rogers who unfortunately passed away, and unfortunately, his station taken over by sinclair broadcasting. this was a man who really did serve the country as a public trustee. say from the filipino community, the hispanics community come on the air and tell what is important in their communities. that has been replaced by these
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forced, must-run, lock-step with the trump administration comment tear eye terries. what stories is that news team going to cover today? >> let's talk about those newsrooms. now dave, you represent the photo journalists at komo which is a sinclair station in see at -- see at. what has been the talk around the station? >> the talk around the station is that this is of a piece of what's been going on ever since sinclair bought that station in 2013. and it is one way rift toward the more control where sip clai -- d sinclair headquarters is and less at home. as you saw in that video that went viral over the weekend,
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where you see all of the stations saying the exact same thing, that is the real threat. political issues come and go, structural changes are forever. and the fcc has allowed this monster that will be the new sinclair after they pick up the tribune stations. they're going to double their audience reach. never before in american history has any station, any owner been allowed to have any more than 39% reach of the country, because of a gimmick passed by the fcc, they will now have 72% reach. and because of another gimmick passed by the fcc, the door is open towards a national broadcast. our moments are far more concerned about a national broadcast supplanting local news all together and getting rid of the services that local news provide th provides. that door has been opened by the fcc, and that is really troubling. >> quickly before we go. ronaldo, the president tweeted
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sinclair is far superior to cnn and even more fake nbc which is a total joke. when the president says something like this, doesn't it make sinclair's claim that it is fair, down the middle and unbiass unbiassed harder? >> what i see is president trump saying nowhere other than him is where you can get truth from. he attacks any independent source of information, that you can only go to him for the truth, and that is really scary. >> jgentlemen, thank you so muc for sharing your thoughts. and i want to make it clear, we invited sinclair executives to come on and speak with us, and as always, i invite members of this administration to join me here on msnbc and are always well co. > -- well, coming up,
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this magazine cover is depicting president trump as a pig. richard painter is back with me, and we're back in 90 seconds. like those from buddy. because stuffed animals are clearly no substitute for real ones. feel the clarity and live claritin clear. i'm your phone,istle text alert. stuck down here between your seat and your console, playing a little hide-n-seek. cold... warmer... warmer... ah boiling. jackpot. and if you've got cut-rate car insurance, you could be picking up these charges yourself. so get allstate, where agents help keep you protected from mayhem... ...like me. mayhem is everywhere. are you in good hands? >> vo: they want more out of life in every way. so they're starting this year's garden with miracle-gro potting mix
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that speech from donald trump on the campaign trail is at the heart of new york magazine's new cover story. and now trump ally, chris christie not holding back on ethics issues in the trump administration. the epa chief reportedly renting a condo for $50 a day. >> this was a brutally unprofessional transaction. it didn't vet people for these types of judgment issue which i think could have been seen very easily in a lot of these people. and the president's been ill served by this. and if mr. pruett's going to go -- >> is he going to go? >> listen, i don't know how you survive this one. if he has to go, it's because he never should have been there in the first place. >> that's a wow. joining me now, richard painter, whose watchdog group is suing the president. and hugh hewitt and the host of
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hugh hewitt, saturdays. mr. painter, to you, first. we have talked a number of times, saying that is unprecedented. this is unethical. we can't believe they're doing this. but now it's chris christie, attack ng trump and/or his cabinet's ethics. does this signal some sort of shift? >> well, i don't know that it's a shift. we've all known that this administration ignores ethics, ignores the law. >> chris christie -- >> well, i think we're finding republican supporters of president trump, one by one, starting to realize that this administration is corrupt and has been corrupt from day one. and our lawsuit is about foreign government money that has been going to the president in violation of the united states constitution. we have the incidents involving cabinet members getting favors and money from lobbyists. we just today had the president
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of the united states making statements that were false, probably knowingly false, about amazon, driving the stock price down. if an investor lost money in that stock, the investor could sue him for securities fraud. and those investors ought to be calling a lawyer. it's every day we have a new violation of either the constitution, the federal statutes or the ethics regulations. it's over and over again. and yes, i think people like chris christie are finally getting fed up. and the voters are getting fed up. i've been fed up with this president ever since he was a candidate. and it was very clear he was going to violate the law if he won the election, and that's what we've had non-stop. >> chris christie was talking there, scott pruett, and this apartment he rented down in washington. hugh, you and i have spoke on twitter about this. you are saying it's much ado about nothing. why? >> scott pruett is a very old friend of mine, and i've had him
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on my show a dozen times, and my son works at epa, so i want to be very transparent, but i've been the designated ethics officer at two agencies, and the key opinion is that of kevin minoli, he's the designated agency ethics officer. he's a lifer. he's been there since 2000. gina mccarthy, president obama's administrator made him the principal attorney general at epa. and mr. minoli reviewed the lease and upheld it. it is not in any shape or form a gift. this is about policy, stephanie, as we've talked about on twitter and the vacancy act. specifically, people on the left are upset with scott pruett over the clean power plan which he repealed. the waters of the united states, the cafe standards which he put up for repeal. he's executing trump's policy on
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wotus and regulatory roll back. they're afraid if for any rhine attorney general jeff sessions leaves, scott pruett is eligible to serve for 120 days. >> there are self-dealing issues that go far beyond scott pruett. let's go back to the magazine cover where they write, to be out for yourself is probably the most disqualifying flaw a politician can have. do you, hugh hewitt, who has a much longer history around politics than i do, do you have ethics concerns with president trumpt or his administration when it comes to self-dealing? >> yes, always. i'm aware of professor painter's 180 different complaints against the agencies across the government. but in every case, stephanie, it's a fact and circumstances inquiry. i think every single case
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against scott pruett has been a nagging, political attack to slow down the agenda. >> excuse me, excuse me, excuse me. can you find me -- >> richard? >> find my a hotel renting for $50 in washington, d.c. and tell me that's not a gift from a lobbyist. no decent ethics lawyer would sign off on that. if that had happened in the bush administration, i would have shut it down in a michblt $nute. $50 a night to get a room in washington, d.c. that is a violation of the gift rules. no ethics can cover that up. it's just flat-out wrong and you know it. >> i don't now mr. minoli, and i doesn't know you. but i wouldn't slander a professional who's been there for 18 years. >> i will. no professional would ever sign off on that. $50 a night in washington, d.c. >> he did. so you're wrong. but -- >> find me that room for $50 a
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night. 180 complaints get me a room for $50 a night in washington. >> when was the last time you stay nad washington, dk? >> a month ago in my own home, which, by the way, i have often given to friends, but mr. pruett could not use it because of the gift rules. when you've got friends in washington who come to town for five months and your wife is at home, you can't stay at a friend's house because of the gift rules, despite pla painter's passion. which is misplaced. >> you can't stay at a lobbyist's house when you're the epa chief and your work could directly impact theirs. >> john boehner stayed at a lobbyist's house for ten years as speaker of the house. it's not owned by steven hart, he's been a friend of mine for 25 years. >> you don't think $50 a night is a gift? you don't think $50 a night is a
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gift? how much do you think hotel rooms cost no washington? >> i will tell you, it was reviewed by the career deputy senior associate general and the ethics official at this agency, for whom i have no knowledge but a great deal of respect. mr. painter doesn't. he's entitled to pass judgment on hover whoever he want, but t a reason he's in minnesota and not washington, d.c. that goes to whether you have regard for other professionals work. >> excuse me, i am tired of be being attacked in my state. we elect people in washington, d.c. we are sick and tired of k-street lobbyists. instead of raking in money in washington, d.c. on k-street and leasing out a room for $50 a night to the epa administrator. this is corruption. this is why the people of minnesota and every other state, you're in a flyover country. we are going to vote these
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people out. it is disgusting what you just said about people in minnesota! that somehow we are here because we don't play by your rules in washington, d.c. we're going to shut it down! we're going to drain the swamp for sure. and this back fill they brought in from new york, we're going to send them back to new york, new jersey, wherever they came from, this is really wrong, and you know! and don't talk down to us in minnesota. >> gentlemen, we're going to leave it thayer. clearly this conversation is to be continued. >> thank you stephanie. >> and no going after jersey, rich around paint irand hugh hewitt. be sure to watch hugh right hire on msnbc on saturdays at 8:00 a.m. for my constipation,
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we could make a ton of money if we monetized our customer. if our customer was our product, we could make a ton of money.
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we've elected not to do that. >> what would you do? >> what would i do? i wouldn't be in this situation. >> ouchie-pooh. apple's tim cook hitting mark zuckerberg where it hurts, and now zuckerberg trying to hurt back. >> i find that argument, that if you're not paying that somehow we can't care about you to be extremely glib and not at all aligned with the truth. i think so it's important that we don't all get stockholm syndrome and let the companies that work hard to charge you more convince that they actually care more about you. because that sounds ridiculous to me. >> hmm. zuckerberg also said it would take years to solve some of facebook's problems. >> i think we will dig through this hole, but it will take a few years. i wish i could solve all these issues in three months or six months. but i just think the reality is that solving some of these questions are just going to take a longer period of time. >> really? that's a funny reality.
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and a big reversal for zuckerberg. in 2010, eight years ago, zuckerberg wrote "there needs to be a simpler way to control your information. in the coming weeks, we will add privacy controls that are much simpler to use." eight years ago said it would just take a few weeks. joining me david kirkpatrick. what is your take on all this? >> i think you were a little unfair in that last comparison. he was talking about a specific set of changes in whatever year that was. and he probably put them in. but they clearly weren't enough. that's the bottom line here. facebook lacks the controls that it needs to governor its system. and he is basically backpedaling furiously in this quite interesting interview he did with ezra klein on vox that came out today in a way that he has never done before. that interview is a breakthrough interview. >> why. >> but there are so many weird things about it. >> what is so breakthrough about it? >> i tell you what is breakthrough about it is he is acknowledging facebook needs
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help to figure out what to do. he has never really had that humility before. he specifically said even for something as minor as if facebook tells you can't put up a piece of content, there should be an external place where you can appeal that. he used a word like a supreme court. not that's run by people that don't work for facebook that is a minor step in a very good direction. because the reality is facebook is now in a position that no company should be in. and he is starting to own that. >> he is owning that, but he is also calling tim cook glib and ridiculous. you know tim cook. would you call tim cook glib or ridiculous? no. but the tim cook argument is not the central issue about this interview. the tim cook argument is interesting because basically, facebook is raking it in with advertising. more than any other company of its size in history. >> and they can't possibly say they're not a media company if what they do is get advertising dollars and they're getting advertising dollars only from places like this.
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>> i agree. if you're a media company, the big argument is they should then therefore bear responsibility for the content on their service. >> like we do here. >> in general, we should agree that is the case. and he is starting to more or less say that but, you know, it's interesting. he is outlying himself more with amazon as a cost cutting company than apple as a cost raising company which is what he basically accused apple of in return. i think the interesting thing is he talks so much about the social responsibility facebook has, but in many parts of the interview, he sounds more like he is the u.n. secretary general or the head of the fbi in responsibilities that he thinks facebook has to keep society functioning normally. he keeps using the word "we" throughout this interview as if he is really capable of making the decisions that will properly guide society towards healthy resolutions, which he says he wants. and it's very idealistic of him.
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but the reality is he is one guy who completely controls a commercial company that cannot be in the position of deciding what is right in the public square. >> well, david, words like we and community are why millions of people believed that facebook was all about posting pictures of your babies and cute babies. david, thank you so much. this conversation, it is not going a way. this friday at 8:00 p.m. eastern for the full msnbc town hal with apple's tim cook. you don't want to miss it. you might take something for your heart... or joints. but do you take something for your brain. with an ingredient originally found in jellyfish,
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that does it for me. i will be back in tomorrow night for mr. ari melber, and you can see me first thing tomorrow at 9:00 a.m. thanks for watching. "hardball" with my friend chris matthews starts right now. welcome vladimir. let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm chris matthews in san francisco tonight. there is talk of a summit between vladimir putin and donald trump at the white house. a kremlin aide today told russian media that president trump made the invitation to president putin during their phone conversation in march. it was in that same call that trump congratulated the russian strongman for his reelection victory, even though trump's staff specifically advised him not to do so. >> i had a call with president putin and conat

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