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tv   AM Joy  MSNBC  April 22, 2018 7:00am-9:00am PDT

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i want to be someone who helps others ... and teaches them new things. every year, comcast employees and their families come together on comcast cares day to give back. it's a celebration of their year-long commitment to their communities. what do i want to be? i want to be someone who cares. that is it for this hour of "msnbc live." i'll see you at noon eastern. but right now it's time for a.m. joy with my friend joy reed. >> they've been saying, i'm going to get rid of them for the last three months, four months, five months. and they are still here. so we want to get the investigation over with, done with, put it behind us. >> good morning and welcome to
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a.m. joy. on the day that former first lady barbara bush was laid to rest at a memorial where former presidents and the current first lady melania trump were present, melania lighting up the internet with a happy smile, looking happier than we've possibly ever seen her, donald trump golfed for three and a half hours at his course in florida before watching the funeral on the tv from what he very much wants to you call his southern white house. trump apparently took some time to do other things he enjoys. he trashed "new york times" reporter maggie haberman in a twitter tirade. he tweeted that he didn't know who mr. magoo is, and then he went off james comey for revealing explosive details about the run-up to his firing. you know, the usual. which is to say the comey drama, the cohen drama, the failing "new york times," it's all getting to donald trump. and if he's scared, maybe there's a reason why. joining me, co-author of "one nation after trump." clint watts, national security analyst and author of "messing
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with the enemy." thank you all for being here. i'll start here at the table. donald trump, e.j., seems to be particularly irritated. i don't think he's upset he didn't go to the funeral. he and the bushes didn't have the greatest relationship and he said out of respect, he wouldn't go. what did you make of this all over the place agitated trump yesterday? >> we should remark on the fact that the family of the former president did not really want the current president down there. that's a remarkable thing all by itself. but i think the raid on cohen's office has really disturbed, if not unhinged him, because the amount of information that could be there, not only that bears very directly on what his role was, if any, in russian meddling in our election, but also on his whole business empire, on all of these personal relationships, charges of abuse, those were all
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there, and the reason he was so upset with maggie haberman's story, and it was really good for maggie, i love maggie, and i was glad to see trump attack her because it's good for her, is that he's really worried cohen may turn on him. it's been day after day after day of stories that he could start cooperating with mueller. that would be a nightmare for donald trump, and i think that's -- yoi don't know if a nightmare -- i guess that's what's waking him up at night. >> for those who didn't read the story, pulitzer prize-awarded "new york times" reporter maggie haberman wrote about the possibility that cohen may not be there for trump. the two gentlemen who starred on pbs wrote an article about what they speculated could bring down donald trump, and of course they are the ones who hired christopher steele, the former
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fbi agent. they said, the most significant recent development involving the president may be that the special counsel robert mueller has subpoenaed trump organization business records as part of his inquiry into russian interference in the presidential election. those documents and records recently seized by the fbi from the president's personal lawyer might answer a question raised by the president's critics. he came back with lots of foreign money. is that where the real peril lies for him? >> i think that's why you see the president react so strongly and talk about his version of red lines. mostly the president's lines, he focuses on his businesses. he says don't go there because he knows it's a vulnerability. the biggest risk to the president has always been other
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crimes with regard to the investigation. it's these side issues that pop up that can really take him down much more than the collusion and even obstruction angles of this. >> just a little about michael cohen that i thought was interesting. a friend sent this to me this morning. this is a "washington post" piece about when michael cohen ran for the city council in new york, cohen was drawn to politics first as a democrat volunteering for the 1998 presidential campaign of michael do y dukakis, and then losing a 2003 bid for city council. as for the other new york city accomplishments, cohen wrote that among his achievemented, he had hectored a local coffee shop into better managing its trash.
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michael cohen has said he would go to prison for donald trump. what's the state of that relationship? >> since he met michael cohen, he pretty much has treated him like national garbage. michael cohen has been extremely loyal to the president. if you walk into his office on 30 rock, he has a shrine to the president. he has photographs with the president. he very much looks up to and borderlines idolizes trump. he has gotten mainly nothing. the president did not make a place for him in the administration, and whether or not cohen recents thsents that, does, he's hidden that very, very well. now it's a question of whether cohen gets his revenge, so to speak, because he holds all the cords where the president at one point did hold all the leverage over michael cohen because he employed him and cohen was extremely loyal to the
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president. now it's cohen who holds all the business records that were taken in this fbi raid. he knows pretty much everything about the deals that were struck with the trump organization in places like panama, kazakhstan, all these places that could have been corrupt and therefore trump in a lot of legal peril. cohen has everything in his pocket right now, and trump, it's really interesting, seemed to yesterday say if cohen did flip on him, he said he wasn't sure that he would, but if he did, it would be all stories and lies, anything that cohen had to say, because of course the special counsel or the southern district of new york would be placing pressure on him and no one wants to go to prison. he was sort of laying the groundwork to say, if cohen does start talking, none of it will be true. >> the president wanted the prestige of manhattan to respect
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him, and now it does seem like all of trump's new york business associations and just his associations generally are really coming back to haunt him. maggie haberman trolling a little bit. he always said trump has been afraid of roger stone for years. he's about michael cohen who could flip on him. is it does feel like the walls could be closing in. >> definitely, and i think trump was just focused on getting into this office, but he wasn't thinking about all the responsibilities that come with the job of being the president of the united states, and i feel like his presidency so far -- at the end of donald trump's presidency, whenever that might be, we might all be unofficial lawyers. it's all like law school 101. he's not only giving us the legal system but the checks and balances on american political power and how strong they're going to hold up. and one thing i really want to quickly talk about is that if
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the secret, sealed indictment really does exist, i just want to say i have so much anxiety about what trump will do with mueller, but if the secret indictment does really exist, one thing is clear, we don't need to worry about mueller. even if he is fired, this investigation is going to go on. >> for those who are not caught up on that issue, let me read a little bit from a very provocative saturday piece in politico in which they said the following. fortunately, while he retains his position, mueller has a powerful tool at his disposal, the sealed or secret indictment. if mueller indeed determines he has a strong case against trump, a secret indictment returned by a grand jury will help protect the integrity of his investigation, even if he is fired, while also avoiding the risk of provoking trump to try to further impede the probe. one other little piece from that politico article, for those who haven't read it yet, if trump were to fire mueller, the already sealed indictment would
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outlast mueller's tenure. it can only be opened by a judge, which means trump cannot relieve himself of the headache by simply firing mueller. t the idea that you have an fbi open investigation of multiple trump people, but right now we know trump is considered not a target but a subject of the investigation. could you foresee a time when we don't know he shifts to being a target and the grand jury decides, yeah, we see crimes here by the president of the united states, unseal the indictment. >> that could be a problem because you don't know what the other witnesses in the investigation could be saying. the other thing that's interesting, they've asked for interviews with the president. the president hasn't exactly agreed to it yet. if they can't verify certain information or get a counterpoint, they might move in
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that direction because he's not providing that information. one thing to remember in all of this is we've seen sealed indictments show up there before, we don't know what's happening, and then months later we've seen subjects come out in the open and into the public. it's possible right now there could be many people or many other sources out there that have already been indicted or under seal of indictment and don't know it. >> i think what's important about this is what the massacre under nixon showed us is that the president can try to stop a train like this, but he can't succeed. it's very hard. tl there is a lot of stuff on the record. there are a lot of people investigating this. and i think if he ever did fire mueller or rosenstein, there would first be an extraordinary outpouring, not from republicans who are still trying to protect trump, but from lots of other people and a few republicans, but there is too much that has already gone on for trump to completely stop this in its tracks. >> and natasha, one of the
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outcries might be a quiet one. it might be jeff sessions leaving. he gets to pursue integration policies, doing what he's always wanted to, going after weed, he seems to have an issue with marijuana. he's pursuing all this stuff with gusto, but yet sessions has indicated that if rose stein were fired, it would prompt him to have to leave. that one person who pushes a mop at justice before they find someone to end the mueller probe, how far in your reporting are you hearing this could go? would trump pardon himself? what are they contemplating in the white house at this point? >> i genuinely wonder whether or not sessions would actually resign if rod rosenstein was fired. it was a very easy thing for
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sessions to say in his phone call with don mcgahn, the white house counsel, a couple weeks ago or last week. but sessions has a lot of leverage right now and i've often written about this curious case in which sessions has really provoked the ire of donald trump, arguably more than anyone in the last year, but yet he continues to hold his job. we've seen that trump is very loose when it comes to firing cabinet officials but sessions has managed to stay on, and a big part of that is it's just political. sessions has a lot of support among republicans and firing him would really be to the detriment of trump support among the base. there is also this question of if rod rosenstein is fired, who is going to fire bob mueller, and that is an open question, whether or not anyone is actually going to take the heat like rod did when -- like rosenstein did when he wrote that letter to fire jim comey, that was a very controversial move. whether or not anyone wants to be in that position is really, really unlikely.
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>> tick, tick, tick, tick. this just gets more weird and interesting as time goes on. we even mentioned giuliani joining the team. we'll get to that another day. and my pen broke, that's how exciting it is. i broke my pen writing notes. >> it's giuliani's fault. >> i always blame giuliani. happy sunday to all of you. thank you. coming up on "a.m. joy," one of the world's most tempestuous leaders is about to meet with one of the most notorious people to try to work out a deal. they're handing us more than mail they're handing us their business and while we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, we never forget... that your business is our business the united states postal service.
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and by the way, i'm not afraid of putin. i don't know putin, i've never met putin. i respect putin. he's a strong leader, i can tell you that, unlike what we have. saddam hussain was a bad guy, right? he was a bad guy, really bad guy. but you know what he did well? he killed terrorists. he did that so good. you look at north korea, this guy is like a maniac, okay? and you have to give him credit. how many young guys, he was like 26 or 25 when his father died, takes over these tough generals. it's pretty amazing when you think about it. >> i don't know, dictators and their sons? president trump, as he gets ready to meet with the north
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korean leader in the next few weeks, what could possibly go wrong? glenda blair, the author of "the trumps: the history of the trump family." you wrote a definitive book of the whole family going back to donald trump's grandfather, and he does seem to have a penchant, an affinity, let's say, for strong men. erdogan in turkey, vladimir putin. he seems to be drawn to people like that. he is either talking about them reverentially or mocking them. he used to call kim jong-un rocket man. here is trump talking about a few countries where he thinks somehow his personality will help him get along with people like that. >> i will get along, i think, with putin, and i will get along with others, and we will have a much more stable -- stable --
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world. >> now, at the same time, i want to be able -- because i think it's very important to get along with russia, to get along with china, to get along with vietnam, to get along with lots of countries. >> it's a big country, it's a nuclear country. it's a country we should get along with, and i think we will eventually get along with russia. >> one more cut for you. this is donald trump sort of channelling what he believes is his, i guess, superpower. >> nobody knows the system better than me. which is why i alone can fix it. >> can you explain to me, what is it about donald trump's sort of affinity for the strong man character? >> of the many ways people can describe donald trump, always to me if you have to get one word,
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it's salesman. performer, salesman. he's always looking for what people want to hear. and for his target audience, american voters, what they want to hear is that he can protect them, so he's pushing the idea that there's strong men all over the world and that he's a strong guy, too, that he's as tough as they are. and i think that that's -- that he can stand up to them in any arena. it goes back to, in his own personal history, his father urged the boys in his family to be killers, to always win, to always come out on top, not to stop at anything, and throughout his career, trump has gone for whoever the strongest person was in the room, gone straight to that person and shown that person that he could best that person. >> you know, john mclaughlin, when i talk to friends from outside the united states, one of the things they will say to me a lot, especially if they're from the middle east and that part of the world, donald trump
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is sort of understandable to people in those kinds of countries, autocratic countries, because he in personality is very similar to those autocratic leaders. he's very much like them than he is what the rest of the world sees as the typical american president. do you think that's fair to say? >> i think that's fair to say, joy. of course, the problem is he lives in a democratic society that doesn't quite mirror the societies those authoritarians live in. for me the texts to study are his tweets and what psychologists say about narcissistic personalities. and i see a parallelism there. in all of his tweets, he's eager to take credit for anything that appears to be successful, and when psychologists, and i'm not one but i read what they write, when at the talk about the nine characteristics of a narcissistic personality, very high on that list is a belief that you are special, that you are unique, that you can do
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things that no one else can do. well, that sounds like donald trump to me. that's exactly how he portrays himself. >> and that i alone can fix it is a depiction of that. >> absolutely. >> you mentioned the tweets, john. i want to read a couple of them specifically on north korea. this is on friday about north korea announcing that it had suspended missile testing. and he writes, a message from kim jong-un -- not calling him little rocket man anymore -- north korea will stop nuclear tests and launches of intercontinental ballistic missiles. also will shut down a nuclear test site in the country's northern side to prove the vow to suspend nuclear tests. probable cau progress being made for all. and in another one, north korea has agreed to suspend all nuclear tests and close up the a major test site. he seems to be a conscientious leading, leading all these
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negotiations with the north, and he says, just give me credit for the two of you coming together for the olympics. what do you prognosticate about a meeting with donald trump, who wants credit for everything, and kim jong-un? >> a couple of things beyond the sheer unpredictability of such a meeting. a couple of things, though, i would say i expected the two of them to get along very well for some of the reasons that have been discussed just a moment ago by you and gwenda. they are both authoritarian in their outlook, i think. i think he will see this person he used to call little rocket man as a sort of fascinating character, which he is, of course. i think the president will be drawn to the idea that whatever he does with this fellow will be great television. he loves that. and from the other side, i am quite confident that north korea has been studying him very carefully and that they
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understand he likes to claim credit for success, and they've already given him one thing that is arguably positive. now, one can be very skeptical about it, of course, because everything kim has put on the table now can be withdrawn, and it really isn't a change in his behavior. he had already stopped testing, and i personally think his nuclear program is far enough along that he can comfortably halt it for a while. so he hasn't given a lot, but he's certainly given president trump something that he can crow about. and in a sense that's successful, i think, manipulation of the president. >> and gwenda, that gets to a question i did want to get to you on. a reading on donald trump, a, he's needy. he craves approval. on the other hand he tries to portray himself as a tough guy and is drawn to other tough guys. but then number three, when he
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gets in the presence of a tough guy, he seems to more suck up to vladimir putin than meet him on tough guy to tough guy. he seems now to be sucking up to kim jong-un and sort of admire him. so there is a real concern among a lot of analysts that when he walks into a room with someone like kim jong-un who will have done his studying, he's just going to get rolled. >> well, we'll see, but -- and why he is so sycophantish toward putin, we have a whole special counsel looking into that. as has to do with north korea, his ideas that his own gut is going to tell him what to do. any kind of expertise about north korea, he doesn't have time for any of that. he's going to know what to do when he comes into that room because he's such a powerful guy. and in his own mind, he is incredibly powerful. we ever to always remember the influence of a guy named norman vincent peele on our president
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wrote power of positive thinking in 1952. donald trump's parents went to norman vincent peele's church. don was a minister. his parents were married in that church. very high influence on donald trump and peele's number one guide for powerful thinking was create a successful image for yourself in your mind, stamp it there indelibly, never let failure enter your mind. that's donald trump's way of thinking. if he does it, it is, by definition, successful. >> wow. that sounds pretty accurate to what we've seen so far. john mclaughlin is staying with us. thank you so much, gwenda blair. great to have you on shoethe sh. >> my pleasure. the latest on his
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or a c-anything-o. but i've got an idea sir. get domo. it'll connect us to everything that's going on in the company. get it for jean who's always cold. for the sales team, it and the warehouse crew. give us the data we need. in one place, anywhere we need it. help us do our jobs better. with domo we can run this place together. well that's that's your job i guess. ♪ and i am a senior public safety my namspecialist for pg&e. my job is to help educate our first responders on how to deal with natural gas and electric emergencies. everyday when we go to work we want everyone to work safely and come home safely. i live right here in auburn, i absolutely love this community. once i moved here i didn't want to live anywhere else.
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i love that people in this community are willing to come together to make a difference for other people's lives. together, we're building a better california. new audio emerged this week from donald trump's fore of a
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new publicist. there was an old phone call made by john barron trying to get trump on the forbes 400 list. it may not surprise you that he lied about how much trump was worth. >> okay. what's your first name by the way? >> john. >> john. >> john barron. first of all, most of the assets have been consolidated to mr. trump, you know, because you have down fred trump. and i'd like to talk to you off the record if i can, just to make your thing easier. >> okay, sure. >> is that all right? >> yeah, that's fine. but i think you can really use donald trump now and you can just consolidate it. >> he pretended to be his own publicist named john barron. that's real. coming up, mike pompeo does
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not have the support of the senate relations committee. but he may become secretary of state just the same. we'll explain, next. i'm not a bigwig.
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or a c-anything-o. but i've got an idea sir. get domo. it'll connect us to everything that's going on in the company. get it for jean who's always cold. for the sales team, it and the warehouse crew. give us the data we need. in one place, anywhere we need it. help us do our jobs better. with domo we can run this place together. well that's that's your job i guess.
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♪ i think mike pompeo is extraordinary. he was top at harvard. he is a great gentleman. i think he'll go down as truly a great secretary of state. >> extraordinary? well, that, of course, is in the
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eye of the beholder. but cia director mike pompeo may not have the votes of the senate relations committee. tennessee senator bob corker has vowed to take mike pompeo's vote to the senate relations committee, anyway. back with me now, john mclaughlin, and joining me, is rosa brooks, formerly at the pentagon. the idea that donald trump's nominee for secretary of state may not be able to get out of committee but will still ended up being voted through on the house floor. what do you make of it? >> as you said, it's been a long time since this has happened. i think it speaks to the extraordinary level of concern that both democrats and many republicans have about mike pompeo and whether he is well suited to this job or not. obviously if he does end up getting confirmed by the full senate without that positive
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committee vote, i think it is also going to reduce his ability to function effectively as the nation's top diplomat, because the rest of the world, unfortunately, will know that he doesn't even have the confidence of congress back at home. >> let me read to you first of all who are the no votes right now. there are 19 senators who oppose the pompeo nomination. jim shaheen, tim hane, cory booker. there are a lot of things about him that are controversial, but one of the things is this trip he took to north korea. donald trump tried to demonstrate his fitness to be on the world stage, who knows what it's all about, but it was a secret that then leaked out. this is donald trump talking about that. >> i also have a great deal of coughs in mike pompeo. i think mike pompeo will go down as one of the great secretaries of state. and by the way, he just left
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north korea, had a great meeting with kim jong-un, and got along with him really well, really great. >> and one of the issues, of course, john, is he used to be an advocatadvocater of regime c. what do you make of this trip? >> he has softened on that, and i think it was a good idea for him to talk about kim. we know a lot about north korean capabilities, their missiles and nuclear weapons and so forth, and of course so does the cia. but i suspect even in the intelligence world, i know there is great debate about exactly what kim's intent is. what's in his head? what kind of person is he? how does he operate? how does he think? so it's important to think that someone has gone ahead of the president to get a read on that. and i have no reason to believe, you know, whatever one thinks about mike pompeo, and i think he's done a good job as cia
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director by and large. whatever one thinks, he's capable of coming back with some insight on that question, i think. so it's a net plus. >> what do you make, john, of the objections to it? there are a lot. there is the idea that he is considered to be very problematic on islam, very intoleran intolerant, shall we say, of islam. his wife with responsibility of ethics in washington has tried to find out why his wife has office space and uses resources at the cia, even though she's not an employee. there's also the new reporting that while his bio and a lot of his biographical information put out there tries to indicate he served in the gulf war. he didn't. what do you make of the objections to him? >> i think for someone voting for mike pompeo in the senate, they've got to weigh two things here. one is there are controversies like that, and i think some of them are justified, perhaps some
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aren't. the gulf war issue, i don't know if he personally put that forward. someone else put it forward and i don't hold him responsible for that error. there are those controversies. on the other hand, the state department is in terrible shape. it's a ghost town if you walk through there. positions are left unfilled, ambassadors aren't appointed. so senators have to weigh, on the one hand, whatever their reservations are about mike pompeo against, i think, the certainty that he will staff the state department, he will want an agency that's fully staffed, up to speed, vigorous, active, because that's where he has been at the cia. so those are the things they have to weigh. i think by and large he deserves confirmation, in my view. >> that's a very interesting point, rosa, because you did have rex tillerson who for a lot of people seems to be dismantling the state department in a lot of ways.
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it was sort of turned into a ghost town. so there is that on the one hand, there needs to be someone there, for god's sakes. we need that diplomatic court to have a leader. then there are the more specific objections. chris coons, who is one of the democrats, the delaware senator who is not supporting him. this is chris coons voicing his objections. he says, i remain concerned that director pompeo will embolden rather than moderate or restrain president trump's most belligerent and dangerous instincts. what do you think of that? >> he takes seriously his management abilities, and that's okay, we need that. but in terms of his views, it's not particularly clear that he has a spine insofar as he has radically shifted his own views in order to comply with what the trump administration seems to want. this is the guy who previously denounced president obama for
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entering into dialogue over cuba, for entering into dialogue with the iranians who previously suggested doing that with north korea would be a terrible mistake. now he seems to be happy to do it. that's okay with me. i think dialogue is a good idea, but it does raise the questions of, boy, what are your views, actually? if they're as bellicose as they have been in the past, that gets kind of scary. i'm not quite as willing as john is to let him off the hook about the served during the gulf war versus served in the gulf war business. it's certainly true that nobody is responsible for what other people say about them, and if other people misspeak, you're not obligated to correct it every single time. on the other hand, when over a period of many, many years in multiple buy iographies, "new y times" articles, letters backing him by 15 members of congress and so on, a mistruth about your record is repeatedly stated, at
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some point you absolutely do have an obligation to say, by the way, thank you for attributing this to me, but that's actually wrong. and he didn't do that, which does raise some questions. >> i think that's a fair point. before we go, john, i want to raise with you, just shift gears a little bit. gina haspel, who would be mike pompeo's replacement at the cia, senator diane feinstein has really made some objections about what appears to be the agency clearing her and putting forward information favorable to her. diane feinstein says it's completely unacceptable for the cia to declassify only material that's favorable to gina haspel while at the same time stonewaulg our efforts to declassify only material that's favorable to gina haspel. is the cia using undue influence by only releasing information that would clear her on the instance of torture? >> i do have a view on this,
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joy, and i favor gina haspel's confirmation, so i should make that clear right up front. i don't think that's a fair charge by senator feinstein with whom i worked while in government and for whom i have a great respect. so, respectfully, i would differ with her on that. what the cia has to do in the case of miss haspel is to, in the case of a person who has worked undercover as a clandestine employee all her life and about whom very little is known, they ever to make available to the senate and the public what they can make available. i think that's what they're trying to do. also, i get impatient, frankly, with senators who say, all of this has to be declassified. they are entitled to know everything there is to know on a classified basis. nothing is held back behind closed doors. they have all the information they need to make a judgment, and i think what they're sometimes pleading for is give us more so that everyone in the
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public understands so that we can make an excuse for what we do or don't do. so i think they hide a little too much behind that issue. >> we are out of time, but i just want to really quickly with you, john, ask you, should we in the public be concerned? donald trump ran as sort of a dove, almost, saying he doesn't want to fight with the rest of the world. now he has assembled this crew between haspel, pompeo and bolton. should we be worried that president trump will restart torture, something that america vehemently objected to in the bush administration? >> no. that won't happen. for other reasons it is now legislatively prohibited. that's not going to happen. no one at the cia would agree to do that for a number of reasons, among them the fact that when the cia did engage in that practice, it was judged to be legal by the highest legal
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authorities in the united states in an administration. it was briefed to congress over to the leaders of the congress over 30 times in the course of -- 60 times in the course of eight years. and yet when the politics changed, the cia finds itself on the firing line. no one at the ccia wants to experience that again. >> we appreciate that reassurance. thank you both. up next on "a.m. joy," the greatest threat to our democracy and yet it's still hard to tell if our government is doing much about it. ♪ i like it, i love it,
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kyle, we talked about this. there's no monsters. but you said they'd be watching us all the time. no, no. no, honey, we meant that progressive would be protecting us 24/7. we just bundled home and auto and saved money. that's nothing to be afraid of. -but -- -good night, kyle. [ switch clicks, door closes ] ♪ i told you i was just checking the wiring in here, kyle. he's never like this.
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i think something's going on at school. -[ sighs ] -he's not engaging. >> so you would need to be basically directed by the president? >> yes. >> have you been directed to do so given the strategic threat that faces the united states and the significant can't consequences you recognize already? >> no, i have not. there are some things i have the authority and i am acting within that authority right now. >> essentially we have not taken on the russians yet? >> it is fair to say that we have not opted to engage in some
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of the same behaviors that we are seeing. >> the man you just heard is admiral michael rogers, head of the nsa and u.s. cyber command. he recently told the senate that the trump administration has not done enough to stop russian interference ahead of the mid-term elections. joining me is jay johnson, head of homeland security under barack obama. thank you for joining me. >> thanks for having me. >> we know russia interfered in our election. we know there is an investigation about potential collusion with the trump campaign, but we also know that at least 20 states had their voters rolls at least attacked, intervened with. are we doing enough to prevent the stealing of or interference with the 2018 election? >> i'm concerned that we might not be. i've been impressed that recently state election officials have become to take this seriously, have begun to focus on the cyber security
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under the election infrastructure with the help of their current department of homeland security. kind of got a late start, but they seem to be taking it seriously now. there was an excellent report done by the center for american progress, 50 state survey on how states are doing on this issue. nobody got an a. >> yeah. >> but 11 or so got a b and a whole lot got cs. >> we just saw a big switcheroo. i got this interesting tweet by glen thrush where nikki haley announced there would be a third round of sanctions and now there's not. donald trump's posture seems to be so solis si to us that there is rumors that he's leaving the back door open. >> bad behavior by nation states, whether it's a dictatorship, communist regime or democracy, states will respond to deterrence. if you make that behavior cost
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prohibitive, they will stop. i'm concerned that our government has yet to do that, especially with some of the signals and messages that the president is sending. the russians need to be deterred in this type of behavior trying to influence our democracy. >> what could the federal government or trump administration be doing? >> you have to look at the russian threat in three different categories. there's the scanning, probing, attempts to hack into our election infrastructure itself. state election officials are focused on that. there are the hacks, the theft from the dnc that we saw in 2016. third, this is in my judgment perhaps the most difficult problem, the fake news and extreme views that are published and republished on the internet and we now know from the indictment brought by the special counsel that the russian government itself was involved in that effort, too. and that to me is something that is perhaps our most difficult problem and it may be years before we understand the full extent of the influence it had on the 2016 election. >> yeah. and we just saw the head of
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cambridge analytica step down. i want to read things from "higher loyalty" is the book by jim comey getting attention. 191 where he talks about you. he talks about in early october the obama team deciding they wanted to put out some sort of formal statement about the interference with our election. there's a question of whether or not the administration followed through on that or whether they were thwarted by congress. what happened? >> well, the intelligence picture became clear by late summer 2016. by late summer 2016 we were able to see that the russian government at the direction of vladimir putin himself was attempting to intersphere with the ongoing election. the question then became, what are we going to do about it? that was not an easy decision, but a number of us, including the president, felt that we had to tell the american voters, the american people what was going on and we did in the statement that director clapper and i
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issued on october 7th. there were a number of cross considerations. we didn't want to do something that would have the effect of undermining our democracy. >> yeah. did congress stand in your way though? >> no, i don't know that congress stood in our way. this was the responsibility of the executive branch. >> and do you think that the warnings were strong enough so that the american people really understood the threat? >> the warnings were drowned out. the warnings were drowned out by the release the very same day within about an hour of the "access hollywood" video. >> right. >> and as a result, the public and the press's attention over the next several days was all about that video and whether or not donald trump was going to drop out. >> we're out of time. very quickly, you had a conversation with your long-time friend and colleague jim comey about your concerns about him briefing the president. as things have borne out, do you believe that donald trump obstructed justice in firing jim comey? >> i think that is up for the -- up to the special counsel to determine. >> yeah. all right. jeh johnson, thank you very much. appreciate your time.
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actually with sean hannity, here's my trade. nice guy. hannity, how good is hannity? >> you notice this. has anyone seen his ratings? what you are doing to your
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competition is incredible, number one, and i'm very proud of you. >> welcome back to "am joy." what if i told you that the president of the united states was really fox news host sean hannity? okay, wait, why are you laughing? case in point, this was hannity friday night. >> comey would leak those very memos to a friend who then leaked them to the "new york times" setting in wheels the motion for comey's best friend robert mueller to be appointed as a special counsel which was his goal. >> a mere two hours later trump would tweet, james comey illegally leaked classified documents to the press in order to generate a special council? therefore, the special council was established based on an illegal act? from twitter to tv, this is not just state tvesque propaganda but the president's policy.
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this week we learned they even share the same lawyer. at a hearing monday it was revealed that trump's personal attorney michael cohen's mystery third client is sean hannity. hannity fired back at his critics with a response that sounded all too trumpy. >> am i surprised by any of this? no, of course not. this is what the media in this country does. i never retained his services, i did have occasional brief conversations with michael cohen. my questions exclusively almost focused on real estate. maybe the media could try and start focusing in on the biggest abuse of power scandal or maybe the forgotten men and women of this country. >> joining me is the editor of the beat gabriel charmin, and eric bowler and msnbc political analyst, jennifer rubin.
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jennifer, you're at a disadvantage for not being at the table here. i'm going to come to you first. the washington post had a piece with the headline he basically has a desk in the place. trump and hannity usually speak several times a week. the fox news host whose show averages more than 3 million viewers daily is one of the few people who gets patched immediately to trump. are we being unfair in saying -- we always say fox news seems to be state media, but nicole wallace this week made a really good point on her show, is it state media or is the media running the state? >> i think this is a parasitic co-dependent relationship. it is obviously to get that out there a completely inappropriate role for anyone who calls themselves a journalist or thinks they're a journalist or who has a logo on their screen news on it. this is entirely inappropriate. he's playing the role of an advisor, speech writer.
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he has not abided by any possible roles of journaljourna. second thing, why is trump taking advice from this guy? get someone smarter. but, gosh, don't take advice from this guy. all his facts are wrong. he really knows nothing about the world. find something else. even at fox there's shepard smith who's actually like a real news person. it's very disturbing as a citizen that this would be the source of information. but you're exactly right, it is a co-dependent relationship. there is no division between fox and the administration and fox has become a joke, i think it was for some time, but i do think that people like shepard smith or people like chris walla wallace, they must be mortified. goodness knows they should find different work. >> jennifer, jennifer, jennifer, donald trump cannot take -- he
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cannot take advise from shep and chris wallace, they're not in primetime. are you kidding me? you only take advice from people in prime. you are a foxologist. here is sean hannity who sometimes seems to take more umbrage on trump's behalf than he takes himself. here he is on the day that his lawyer, his and donald trump's lawyer, michael cohen's office was raided, as you watch this, viewers, nobody yet knew when he's screaming about michael cohen that michael cohen was his own lawyer. take a listen. >> mueller is out to get the president and it appears at any cost. here's what happened. upon referral from special counselor robert mueller the fbi has raided the office, home an hotel room of michael cohn. cohn was never part of the trump administration or trump campaign. this is now officially an all hands on deck effort to totally malign and if possible impeach the president. robert mueller is so far beyond
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his mandate but the media, while they're obsessing over michael cohen, yeah, there are really important stories to bring to you. >> gabe, fox news tolerates essentially him being an advocate for the president. he sort of straddles the line because he's an opinion journalist but back in 2010 "the new york times" warns that he got rebuked for activism. in 2010 he was yanked from a tea party rally after they objected to his appearance. in 2016 he was at a area and they rebuked him there. >> as crazy as this may sound, back when roger ales was running fox he would occasionally make examples of people, not because he fundamentally disagreed with their decisions but he was a smart enough political strategist to know that you needed to have somewhat of the optics if you're going to have the lower bug in the corner of your screen that says news, you've got to give something to
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show that you care about that stuff. now the current management of fox, they're going with whatever rates and putting pro trump rating on the aerates and hannity is the biggest ratings of all. that is -- that's clearly the issue. they don't want to rebuke him because he's basically supporting their primetime lineup. >> tiffany, you sort of have this closed loop that you could say it is across the street at rockefeller plaza at fox but it also sort of includes the west wing. there was this rumor at one point that donald trump wanted to hire victoria tensing and her husband to be on his legal team. they ended up declining to do it. now we find that han knew the at this uses tensing. this connection between fox and the white house, it's unusual. >> it's unusual. it's inappropriate. to jennifer's point, he has no
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politics expert. he perpetuated this ridiculous obama berther movement. in 2010 he was the biggest critic of julian assange. six years later he's their biggest champion. we're looking for fox to come out and punish him. he makes dollars so they don't mind that he doesn't make sense. the scary thing i will say this, he has a hotline to the white house. he also has a hotline to 3 million viewers every night. when you think about the connection between those two things, everything this president does on the domestic and global scale is meant to appease this society. so policy moves that he's making. everything that's coming out is such a small sect of not only his supporters but of the country themselves. they're driving policy across the globe because this is really scary -- look, ignorance is a bipartisan issue. we all need to do a better job.
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for the person in power, this is a scary thing. the people who watch him do not have intellectual curiosity to get information other than other places other than the echo chamber that is fox news. this room of people may drive us into a war or an area we don't want to go. >> because it's such a closed loop, to your point, there may not be a sufficient cognizance of the danger that is lurking outside of them. michael abanati was on bill maher's show. this is what he had to say about sean hannity. >> there's no doubt that there were documents with sean hannity's name on it. >> are they in such a closed system that sean hannity may not understand that if trump is in trouble, lawyer is in trouble, cohen gets raided, he only has
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three clients, one is trump, one is hannity. if there are tapes -- >> right. >> -- could hannity's name be coming up? there is more danger here than they understand? >> yeah. he's trying to dismiss this as a nonstory. he wanted to hire famed real estate attorney michael -- >> everything he said was so important. we all laf at him. we took it off for more insights in the middle east. hannity operates in the gutter with these conspiracies. it's the power of personal destruction. ask andrew mccabe and his wife to be on the receiving end of a multi-million dollar year long campaign smear campaign. that is a widely dangerous area.
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if they were around today it would be everything they embody. hannity doesn't care about immigrants. it's able to take over democracy slowly but surely. >> one be thing i want to point out about hannity that's unique to fox is that he will blow with whatever way the republican winds blow. factor in the 2000s he was george w. bush's biggest cheerleaders railroading us into the iraq war. now he's for the syrian strikes. if you look at tucker carlson or other pro trump voices they were pro syria because they care about certain ideological previews. hannity lock stock and barrel will never break from donald trump because he's pledged his
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fuelity to him. >> there were stories in washington post, aides will turn to fox, they'd rather get it to the president through fox news. it becomes a question of what it is that's being fed to donald trump. if they are sort of following the old ales playbook, racial grievance, grievance against minorities and immigrants, grievance against muslims, these policy ideas are in a very minor scope. if they're listening to that and have a feedback loop that extends back to sinclair broadcasting, what is the danger to democracy in that, i guess? >> absolutely. i think you can't look at donald trump without seeing the role that fox played on the right. they really popularized dumbing down the right. they popularized, as you said, this white sense of grievance that they were losing something. they popularized the notion that
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hispanic immigrants were criminals, patently false. they started for him a lot of the same themes that he actually ran on. so there's a complete compatibility. at some point you have to deal with the real facts on the ground, the real world and the country as it is. it's interesting he's been hiring from fox now, too. we have john bolt continue. where did he learn of john boltin? by watching him on fox news. he's not only listening to them, he's hiring personnel. that's where he almost hired one of his lawyers. >> which gives fox news incredible power over our country? >> yes, which is a very scary thing. when you were saying a dopey guy on the television, i was wondering are you talking about the president or sean hannity? when you think of the irony of
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donald trump and sean hannity being the voice of people, these are two new york guys who spent their time in the major city. this is the voice of the bible sfwhelt. >> doesn't hannity own -- >> he has his own jet. he makes about $20 million a year, i mean, this is a guy who clearly doesn't want in the shoes of donald trump's base. >> yeah. tiffany, thank you for staying with us. have a happy sunday. coming up, virginia, then alabama, then pennsylvania. the dominoes are falling for republicans in places donald trump won by huge march begins. in arizona, phoenix.
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it's very disappointing and doesn't fit our district that hero is totally opposed to the wall. she would be a better fit for t tuks son, something like that. >> please spond to the question. >> i'm going to have to take a little offense at that. i'm a 21 year residence of the west valley. i know my communities. it makes people feel safer. it doesn't make people feel safer. instead of fear-mongering, let's talk about the facts. >> those two women are facing off this week in a special election in arizona's eighth congressional district, a district trump won in 2016 by 21 points, a reliably safe
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republican district. why has the republican party poured more than $1 million into the race? debby lesko is one point behind deb krat hiral teparanini. we'll get to you in a moment, andrew. i've got to talk to my friends here about this race in arizona. here are some of the features of it. this district went 21 points in favor of trump. the connor lamb district in pennsylvania by contrast went 21 points in favor, plus 21 district. both of the two districts involved sex scandals. both tim murphy in pa and trent franks went down in sex scandals. rick scicone and debby lynn.
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both of the democrats are moderates. is this a race that democrats should -- are right to view as the next connor/lamb race? >> absolutely. it's kind of put the wind at the back of some of these unlikely democratic candidates in districts like this. in this district, this is the home of joe arpaio. she has an uphill battle. it's not insurmountable. given the things we've seen coming out of this administration and this white house, there are some sinking feelings of republicans who are starting to question their party. some elected republicans aren't endorsing him for the 2020 race. this is the district that's overwhelmingly white. they have a pretty high level of college educated voters. the fact that they're spending millions of dollars trying to win what used to be a safe district, they call it a solid republican district, it says a
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lot to democrats. i would challenge the democrats on the ground to not take anything for granted and even though it's a small percentage of people of color in this district, reach out to them. that could be the narrow margin that puts her over the top. i think she's done a great job of getting her message out there and this is a district that wins if you deal in fear-mongering. if you point out the old facts, point out the ridiculous insignificant border wall. i think she does have a shot. >> so i love to have kateon on to talk republican strategy. he is the best in the business. i want to get from you your take on whether or not this is a race that your party could lose in this district. let's play the ads. >> i support president trump's plan to build the wall. i'm debby lesko.
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>> debby lesko is everything you hate about congress. she promised to oppose tax increases. >> what do you think, kateon, which of those two messages is stronger? >> both messages are targeting an electorate that will be 20% of the available voters. these special elections are really, really different. i made a call in to arizona yesterday and found out a couple of things that i think will surprise us. we've got john mccain, a very popular senator there in arizona who's been upside down with the white house at times. i move away the president's popularity. i watched that in the obama election and we won seat after seat after seat and we weren't supposed to win. the wind is always at the democratic backs. what you have to spend to get them to go to the polls is much less than we have to spend when
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we have a democrat in the white house. i see the 15% electorate. i think the republicans have got a good chance to keep that seat. other plays in effect here. i'm watching what the democrats are doing, which is very similar to what the republicans did when obama was elected. they've got 1400 more to go but those are numbers that would tell you that republicans are going to have to act differently in these seats. most of them are involving scandals in people who have left. i know we've got the nunes seat and ted cruz race. if we do lose that seat, the cost of fund raising for us goes up nationally. >> yeah. >> my nod is to the republican who already has a base of voters in that district. as the democrats put up a very credible candidate. that always helps when that
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process is. so that's how i see that rates. those ads targeted at that 15% who are going to vote, they're pretty good messages but, again, it's arizona and it's a john mccain factor there. she was correct in representing that the sheriff's division is in there. >> let's go to one of those candidates. andrew james, you are running against devin nunes who definitely energizes democratic voters. how do you go about winning a district like the one that nunes represents? >> joy, thank you for having me on this morning. >> sure. >> this is a district that went to trump. he won by 52%. this is definitely a seat that's in play. we're out there every day. i've been on the grouped crisscrossing this district for the last year and we're out there talking about issues,
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bread and butter issues that the voters care about. these are issues like health care, education, jobs and the economy and locally for us water. >> it's interesting that you mention that because you what you didn't mention that list is that you are out there talking about donald trump and nunez's dye hard support. >> look, the russia investigation is an example of everything that's wrong with devin nunez and these republicans in washington today. they're focused on this investigation instead of the issues that matter to the voters back at home. i can tell you there is no person that stands closer to trump than devin nunes. if you stant with donald trump, you're going to lose your seat, we want to send that message. >> kateon, is this a seat that you as a strategist are concerned about? >> i'm not that concerned about this seat. andrew's a good candidate and i
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applaud him for running. he has a $3.8 million project. to think nunez is going to lay down and give up that seat is improbable. the donald trump numbers, remember, i still don't hang my hat on the numbers because i watched president obama's numbers. donald trump is not on the ballot and that -- the russian stuff doesn't matter. it's going to be the hard work and amount of mean that was spent and i saw he had 3.5 million, i'm going to lay my odds on that one. >> donald trump is not on the ballot but when barack obama wasn't on the ballot and going out to vote against obama no matter hofs on the r side. what you did. >> joy, can i jump in? >> we're out of time. if you can be fast.
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>> i can say this, look, in the first 90 days of this year we raised $1.1 million. any time a first person raises that kind of money, the seat is in play. >> i want to say quickly before we go, the interesting thing about this district is it's a majority minority district. the hispanic population is 30%. andrew, i hope you're reaching out to the communities of color. they're driving election results the same way trump supporters do. >> i love this debate. >> i do it every day. >> we're going to have you back. thank you very much, tiffany cross. kateon dawson. don't hire him just because i love him. he is great. i'm just being objective. andrew janz, up next, first time a president is not a castro.
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i we worked with pg&eof to save energy because wenie. wanted to help the school. they would put these signs on the door to let the teacher know you didn't cut off the light. the teachers, they would call us the energy patrol. so they would be like, here they come, turn off your lights! those three young ladies were teaching the whole school about energy efficiency. we actually saved $50,000. and that's just one school, two semesters, three girls. together, we're building a better california. so donald trump just found out who jack johnson is from sylvester stallone. yesterday he tweeted, quote, sylvester stallone called me with the story of heavy weight
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boxing champion jack johnson. his trials and tribulations were great. his life complex and controversi controversial. yes, i am considering a full pardon exclamation point. johnson, of course, was the first african-american to win the heavy weight title. a black boxer in the jim crow era who fought and defeated white opponents. his relationship with white women made him a target. in 1913 johnson was convicted by an all white jury to transport white women across state lines for, kw0quote, immoral purposes. they've been advocating for a pardon for him. up next, changing cuba. stay with us. captivating exteriors dynamic lighting elevated comfort
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57-year-old miguel diaz ka fell in is making history. >> miguel diaz-canel is going to stay the course. >> it's expected to mark the first time in decades that a castro will not hold that title. >> it's the beginning of the end of the castro era. raul castro remains the head. there is a new president in miguel diaz-canel. people are wondering if there could be a change in cuba's relationship with the united
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states. joining us is mariana atencio. you're in miami where castro's cuba is top of mind. what's the read? do people feel that maryo migue diaz-canel is a change? >> joy, first of all, i want to congratulate you for being honored by the national keepers of the dream award. >> thank you. >> you keep our community's dreams alive down here. and in talking about our communities down here in miami, it's the talk of the town, this new face, new leadership in cuba. and there are things about him that point to changing of the guard, of course. this is a man, get this, that was born after the revolution. 58 years old. electrical engineer. he's not a member of the military and he has been seen as a reformer at some points,
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especially a big proponent of the internet. also a change in guard with the vice president as well, mike pence equivalent for the first time will be an afro-cuban. the first black man ever to hold such a high post in government in cuba. so we are seeing some new faces. there's a lot of skepticism on the ground in cuba as well as in miami. especially here in the streets of miami that this will signify any change. most people say it's the same old castro pulling the strings of the regime because as you mentioned, he will stay on as president of the communist party until 2021. so really not very many things point to change. in fact, i was talking to a friend of mine who was in cuba for business this week and he tells me there's a running joke in the streets. if you ask people, do you know there's a new president that just stepped in and then people will reply, do we know who the
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candidates are? can we vote for them directly? i mean, people can't even vote for president directly. they have to vote for their representatives and then it is they will step in. it's moore of what we call in span anything a vero gracia. it is castro just pointing his finger and hand picking his successor to make sure that the revolution is institutionalized when he leaves because he is, after all, 86 years old. >> yeah. i was intrigued that you mentioned that he is a proponent of the internet. anybody who's been to cuba to havana is aware of the little clusters of people gathered around a hot spot. people make $31 a month and using them to try to get on the internet or tourists trying to get on the internet. a lot of people have believed
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that the outside world could get into cuba and protest by having more openness to the internet. is there any sign that there will be more access for people to get online to speak to the outside world? >> i think because the escanelle has been such a promoter of the internet and they do believe they need to open up to the outside world, at least when it comes to the internet, you will start to see, i believe, some change in that regard judging from their background solely. he is 58 years old. a day after he took hold of power. he does represent a change from these 89-year-old men in government who believe the internet is evil. i think that ideology will no longer withstand, but if we are to see some significant change beyond the internet, that is still to be seen in cuba. >> so great to have you in the
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msnbc family, my friend. thank you very much. enjoy the nice, warm weather. we're up here in chillical icay in new york. >> come on over. >> don't tempt me! we've talked about this a lot. beyond cuba being a repressive regime for the people there, you know, the more pointed thing, the thing when i visited cuba, the thing that is sort of the most in your face is the poverty. >> yes. >> is the fact that people have nothing, really make no money. cuba's command economy according to the associated press still employs three out of four people, the state salary is $31. workers live on stolen goods and handouts from relatives overseas. does that change things for the people? >> it looks like a cosmetic
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change for now for many of the reasons that mariana just touched on, joy. cuba is a totalitarian dictatorship run by one family. it is the castro family where even diaz-canel mentions in his opening remarks to the world. the person making those decisions is raul castro. that's why i think any sign of change for this regime. that's i think the wisdom that we saw in the obama approach of engaging them, trying to have whether it be american tourists, cuban american tourists travel with greater frequency, to make anything of the people, the populus less dependent. even something with greater internet access means the threat of change. i think you're going to see the same old same old. if anything, i think you might see diaz-canel be some sort of a
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figure head place holder until the true sec sesor comes noor cuba which is a relative of the castro family. >> i was going to say to you maybe when raul castro dies they'll put in somebody younger. it doesn't sound like you think so. you know, rosa, when i talked about this change that the obama administration put in which allowed cuban americans, tourists to have more access to the island, there's been nobody more for reversing that and prompted the trump administration to reverse that. here he was on monday on what john boltin's appointment needs for cuba. >> whether it's on cuba or venezuela, the united states has led the way on fighting for freedom.
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i want to thank you. the day he was hired -- >> really quickly. here's donald trump on univision on monday talking about his change of policy. just to note for our viewers, it was dubbed into spanish for univision. that's why there are subtitles. >> he said president obama gave everything away. i've gotten it back. what do you make of that? >> i think unfortunately it's the opposite. i mean, i think it's absolutely right to say that this is a cosmetic change, that there's no sign whatsoever that this shift indicates a real change in policy. the tragedy is that during the obama administration by re-opening the u.s. embassy, by dramatically loosening things,
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that was the moment of real hope for some significant change in cuba, greater engagement giving inspiration to the pro democracy people. it scared the hard liners when they denounced it, that's how you know they're successful. when they say, no, no, this is no good, we don't need this. we had a few years where it looked like we were on a trajectory that would be the single best thing for the cuban people. president trump has essentially ended that. we now have fewer staff in the u.s. embassy in cuba than we had prior to lifting some of the sanctions in the u.s. intrasection because we need to be influencing how this comes out. as has been the case in so many other parts of the world where the u.s. retreats, russia and china have stepped in -- >> have come in.
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>> they've become the actors. ferdinand, are you hopeful? >> none whatsoever. what comes to meend is the incoherence of the trump policy. russia, who attacked us, trump is talking about having a state visit, putin coming to the white house. he's literally sent mike pompeo to meet with them? >> they're a big patron. russia, trump is cuddling up to them. appreciate it. coming up in the next hour, former ambassador to russia, michael mcfall. first, an update on flint, michigan. (vo) make her day with
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#1 awarded it's got to be tide. and for a plant-based clean, try tide purclean don't talk to us like we're stupid. we understand the law. this is a moral issue. it's an ethical issue, and the people deserve to be comfortable and have that kind of peace of mind and continue with bottled water and filter water while we get through this process. >> this week the mayor of flint said her city will sue the state of michigan after she said governor rick snyder rejected her plea to continue free bottled water distribution. he said it continued longer than
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they believe it needed to noting lead levels are below the action level. mayor weaver calls it a moral issue. >> they gave us their word they would see us through this lead and galvanized service line replacement and that we would have pods stay open until then. they backed out on what they said. >> mayor karen weaver joins me now. it's hard to believe it's been four years since the flint water crisis began. the government's office is saying they are disputing your characterization of them cutting off the free bottled water distribution early. a federal judge has denied an emergency injunction to keep those, what you call pods, in flint. why is it a federal judge is siding with the state if you're saying you still need the bottled water? >> i will tell you, joy, one of the things that i've heard about that case, because i haven't been involved in it that much, but it was one person who made the claim.
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i think it needed to be bigger than one person. maybe it would have been different had it been a class-action lawsuit. i'm not sure. that's why i'm still meeting with our attorneys to continue our conversation about suing the state because one of the things i've always said it's a bigger issue than just bottled water. the people of flint still need and deserve more resources and support. >> and are the pipes going into the homes and the houses in flint, michigan, fully replaced at this point? >> no. and that's the issue. the governor has said and tests have shown the water is testing better. we haven't denied that. our issue is we are almost halfway through this lead and galvanized service replacement. while you have this amount of construction going on we know lead particulates can break off and get into the system. and so that's why it's still a public health issue and we have to protect ourselves. that's what we were saying people in flint still need and deserve bottled and filtered water. our schools are still testing, not at the level we'd like to
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see them. it's a big issue and a big concern. like i said as i was listening, this is what we were told. you told the people that the pods would stay open indefinitely until we got through this process. and while you're trying to re-establish trust and back out on your word, it's a bad thing. it's a really bad thing. >> and flint has continued to attract national attention. my colleague rachel maddow spoke with you earlier this week. here's michael moore who was in town with a film crew. we're not sure what it was for, what he was filming, but here he is confronting the governor. >> drink the water! governor snyder, drink the water! >> of course he was calling on the governor to try drinking the water. the governor's office had their own special water. they weren't drinking flint water. you have said that in a meeting with the governor himself, he said the people of flint should, quote, get over it. >> that is correct. >> can you explain it?
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>> that is correct. i was laying out the reasons i believe it's important to continue with the bottled water, and i was willing to prcompromi. we've started with the replacement back up this year and we don't need as much. you can go from eight case as day to four cases a day, from four pods to two pods but let's compromise as we continue to move forward. and that is what i was told was to get over it. and, you know, when that was said, i just -- you know, i had some of my executive staff with me and the president of the staet council with me and i leaned over to one of my staff and closed my book and said this meeting is over. i shook the governor's hand and we left. >> how long do you anticipate it will be before the citizens of flint have clean water coming out of their taps, all of the citizens? >> and that's what we were talking about. we're ahead of schedule with the service line replacement. we have this year and next year to complete the process, but we
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have replaced over 6,000 of those lead service lines and we've looked at in addition 3,000 that are copper to copper. so that's 9,000. so we're ahead of schedule and that's why we said we believe we will finish before schedule, but since this was the way we were pushed there are bigger things in flint and there are bigger things than bottled water we're asking for. we're asking for bottled water, but we're also talking about when people have water that comes back with high lead levels in their home, we know the in-home plumbing has been damaged. we know the fixtures have been damaged. hot water heaters have been damaged. we have civil liability. property values have gone down. we've talked loss of population and the tax revenue that will go with that. >> and let's never forget it was not the leadership of flint that made the decision to switch the water. mayor, thank you for being here.
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and with free access to tv's hottest shows from netflix, showtime, starz, hbo and more, you'll want to tap out of your regular life and go binge. for you. go binge. i got this. thank you. call back next week. amy are these timesheets still... you're not amy. i am now. [snaps] don't miss the greatest week in tv. show me watchathon. binge now with on demand or the xfinity stream app until april 22nd. that's our show for today. "a.m. joy" will be back next weekend. right now alex witt joins us with the latest and the greatest. what's going on today? >> you covered a lot of it. we're just going to pick up. i'm alex witt here in new york. it's just about high noon here in the east. 9:00 a.m. out west. new tweets from president trump
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saying north korea has agreed to denuclearization while kim jong-un says they're just hitting pause on nuclear testing. does trump know something we don't? and how much damage could michael cohen do? >> it's a very serious threat. this is an epic battle for the cooperation of michael cohen. >> a report suggests trump's lawyer dedicated his career to him and may become the president's undoing. plus, one reporter suggesting president trump is afraid after longtime political objeperative. a key republican on capitol hill voicing skepticism over north korea's decision to suspend nuclear testing and close a test site. here is what senator bob corker said a bit earlier. >> he views having deliverable nuclear weapons as his


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