tv MSNBC Live With David Gura MSNBC May 12, 2018 11:00am-12:00pm PDT
the staffer who mocked senator john mccain in a closed door meeting. new reports of the meeting that followed that and sarah huckabee sanders' self-fulfilling prophecy. plus rudy giuliani's marks about a major merger put him at odds with the white house again. an awful house? another violent arrest at the waffle house calls for requests to boycott the restaurant evoking outrage across the country. we begin at the white house where kelly sadler who reportedly made that remark about john mccain still has a job nearly 48 hours after the remark surfaced. colleagues on both sides of the aisle have had a different take. >> on something like this you apologize. something that is this bad, you ought to just apologize and get past it. >> in my lifetime he's one of the most remarkable patriots our
country ever produced. >> the comments by a white house staffer in regard to john mccain were just outrageous, totally out of line. and, frankly, i think it ibt 's incumbent on the white house to apologize. >> jeff, there is noxiaxios, sa sanders convening the meeting. >> reporter: sarah sanders was outraged that what was said in a private media was leaked to the media. and the reporter said he talked to five separate people who gave an accounting of what happened in that meeting. it was in many way as self-fulfilling prophecy. it becoming apparently clear that the white house would rather have us focus on the leak rather than the fact that this
white house staffer made a crude and cruel remark about an american hero u.s. senator john mccain, who is in a fight for his life. i think that's perhaps best illustrated, david, by an interview that white house budget director mick mulvaney gave earlier today saying that, yes, the comment was offensive but the real issue here is that it was made public. take a look. >> i think the remarks are awful. let's look at that in context. that was said in a private meeting inside the white house. you might say something really nasty about me off the air and it doesn't have that much impact. you come on air and say it officially, now that's a problem. >> in that reporting by actionio, white house communication director said in that meeting put it on the record, i stand by kelly sandler. i reached out to mercedes. she did not deny she in fact said that. one of the things she was trying to get across was that white
house staffers have to stop turning on each other. setting aside the leak for a second. the people that confirmed to me that kelly sadler did say that this week made clear when she said it, it was clear in her tone that she thought it would be well received in the room. and they say that's a signal that the president and his own tone and his own attacks on john mccain to be specific about it has set really a standard of what's acceptable among white house staffers. now, to the question of whether or not kelly sadler apologized to the mccains, we know she spoke earlier this week with megan mccain, john mccain's daughter, a source wasn't clear on that point but says the fact that kelly sadler reached out at all is itself an indication she knew she did something wrong. >> we're going to come back to john mccain in a moment here. i want to ask you about the pair of interviews that rudy giuliani
did with huffpo. what's the fallout from those comments been? >> in just five words rudy giuliani undimond months of whi house statements and justice department statements. he said, whatever lobbying was done didn't reach the president. he did drain the swamp. the president denied the merger. they didn't get the result they wanted. now, it appeared that giuliani was trying to defend the president against any suggestion that michael cohen really was improperly influenced or rather improperly influenced the administration given the revelation that cohen accepted large sums of payments from at&t and other companies. but immediately after that interview was published, the president sent out a tweet, david, saying why doesn't the fake news media state that the trump administration's anti-trust division has been and is opposed to the at&t purchase
of time warner in a currently ongoing trial. such a disgrace in reporting. as you said, mr. giuliani is backtracking, making clear that the president told him directly he didn't interfere. it's the latest indication of the former new york mayor's habit of making things more difficult for his client here at the white house. >> my thanks to jeff bennett. jeff bennett at the white house for us. let's go back to the story with john mccain and kelly sadler. you have nick mulvaney doing an interview saying this wasn't a public event it, happened behind closed doors, don't make a big deal out of it. and then you've got this leak, the five people talking about the axios meeting, sarah huckabee sanders not
vociferously apologizing for what was said about john mccain. >> the president says apologies are signs of weakness. we heard that sarah huckabee sanders saying she's not going to talk about a leak. we've seen this from this administration, not focusing on the substantial but on the fact that it became leaked and became a public affairs problem for the white house. it not only sustainable to -- clearly not only allies of the president but opponents of the president said this is beyond the pale, you don't insult a war hero on his death bed and basically has a few more weeks or months to live. it not something you should be doing as a white house official. that's why this administration is really struggling to figure out how to contain the damage and hope it blows over and hopes something else takes over the
news cycle. one controversy start and before you can even really process it, something else comes out. >> ron, it's not lost on me that comity and civility is something that john mccain talked a lot about. how much of his book centers on his prescription for improving the political environment in washington, d.c.? >> there is a specific chapter, david that is correct is devoted to regular order. that is the term for having the senate operate on a broader scale the whole congress, the entire body politic, operate on an assumption of goodwill and bipartisanship, operate under a system in which everyone's view is heard, everyone has an opportunity to participate and that's largely been lost in the current senate. that was one of the reasons that john mccain himself voted against the refael of tpeal of
affordable care act last year because it hadn't followed regular order and bipartisan and given everybody a chance to participate. that's one of the things that john mccain is doing, making a final appeal to restore that regular order. >> in this statement, "far from the senate floor john mccain knows how to seasoned a message." we've been following the nomination for of gina haspel. how is he making his presence known from arizona and how does washington miss his presence? >> there are many who miss his presence, and that includes some
of the republican senators, i would start with lindsey graham, who is closest to john mccain. they have reacted about the statement of gina haspel, they totally respect that point of view but it hasn't changed their votes on gina haspel, at least so far. lindsey graham has agreed to confirm her. we haven't seen any but rand paul saying they're willing to cross over and oppose her as john mccain asked them to do. so rand paul, john mccain. they're still looking for others to follow his example on that. >> i was talking about rudy giuliani being adamant that
they're far away from sitting down for an interview with the special counsel. you've got this legal team saying we're far away from that and at the same time you have associates calling for an end to the investigation. >> i think that rudy giuliani is sort of the buffer between the president, who has said he wants to sit down and the legal team who is encouraging the president not to sit down. they're weird he may say something not true, enter into what's called a perjury trap, not necessarily follow where the facts are. what we know about this mueller investigation is they have done a lot of work talking to so many different people and figuring out the fact pattern that has gotten us to this particular place where we are now. the president may decide to go awry from the facts.
his role is to make a public argument saying this is a witch hunt, they're not necessarily following anything that has to do with the president, talking about the president's personal lawyer and other people who may have committed crimes many years before they met the president. he's doing a public relations campaign trying to make it so that the public does not see the president refusing to sit down with bob mueller as a sign of guilt but that this is a witch hunt that doesn't have anything to do with the president. we heard that the president and giuliani will make a big deal out of may 17th, which is the one year anniversary of the special counsel, saying they haven't come up with anything in this one year and it time to shut down the investigation. >> john kelly, the white house chief of staff, doesn't do a whole lot of intervups but he sat down with your colleague, john burnett. i want to play a little of the interview. >> in retrospect i wish i had
been here from day one. >> how so? >> it terms of staffing or serving the president, that first six months was pretty chaotic. they were people hired that maybe shouldn't have been hired. it not that things were a disaster that first six months, but i believe they could have been better. >> he doesn't do a whole lot of interviews and when he does, it tends to create a stir. what do you make of him talking to your organization, saying what he said? what does it tell you about his position in the trump white house? >> he wanted to respond to certain allegations made about him regarding the president. he wanted to respond to reports that he had called president trump an idiot. he said he thought president trump was super smart. he knew that people had been saying for weeks that he was on the verge of resigning himself as chief of staff. he wanted to say he'd never had any thought of doing that and
had no thought of doing that. so there were a number of points he wanted to make. really this interview has many different parts that lead in many different directions and create a number of different impressions, some of which john kelly has already perhaps regretted that give us a sense of what's really going on in his mind and how frustrated he's really been. >> thank you both for the time. >> did michael jackson put a price tag on access to the oval office? we're going to follow the money trail next.
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president's lawyer today? >> we had an update on michael cohen, president's personal lawyer over time, who it's been made public his business contracts, including one with at&t. mr. giuliani says that the president had no idea about that contract and claims that he was not lobbied by michael cohen. on an issue like the at&t merger with time warner, which the department of justice and the anti-trust division there voted against and denying that merger and that is something that raises the question about a cohen able to broker his proximity to the president for an outcome. giuliani is saying the president did not know about it and was not lobbied. he goes on to talk about the relationship with cohen today, expressing concern from the president for michael cohen because of their personal relationship but saying they are not in contact now because it wouldn't be appropriate given the circumstances.
it is important to note that the president can, as the head of the government, can intervene on a matter of the department of justice in certain sixes, but giuliani was very clear about the fact that he said that the president did not intervene on the merger issue and pointed out that as a candidate and throughout his presidency had opposed the merger because he thought it was too much power concentrated in those two companies. s so that's on that point. we also talked about looking ahead to what might happen with the special counsel, where we expect that the president is beingin courag iencouraged to d interview. robert mueller and his team want to ask the president questions. giuliani he hoped to have a decision on that wrapped up by next week. that is not happening because there have been a number of big foreign policy issues, the release of the three americans detained in north korea, the announcement about the iran nauk
clear deal and instead they think they have a couple weeks to reach a resolution about whether the president will or will not answer questions and under what circumstances. would it be limited in time, limited in scope, things they would have to negotiate. giuliani also tells me he would request of the special counsel not to hold any such interview until after the summit with north korea's kim jong un. that's a month from today. giuliani telling me that he needs to prepare the president and could not possibly take his concentration away from the important work of the north korea summit. so that gives as you bit of a timeline, david, that if the president were to agree to such an interview and it not certain that he would, it would at least be a month from now from the giuliani side and the president's legal team wanting that additional time. also matters like the anniversary, one year ago next week is the anniversary of the appointment of robert mueller, after the firing of james comey
and the decision by the deputy attorney general to put in place a special counsel. the giuliani side of this says we want to know where they are. is the end near? and to point out at one year that had been the expectation among money that an investigation could be concluded within a year. mr. giuliani says we may make a little fuss about that anniversary next week wanting to get some answers about how close to the end. the special counsel would by the nature of how this investigation came to be would be writing a report that would be submitted to the deputy attorney general. that would be a concluding part of this and mr. giuliani says he hopes that some of this is already drafted in areas where the work has been completed and he believes such a report could be completed without an interview from the president. why? he says they have turned over so many docks and there are so many other answers that have been submitted by people in the president's orbit and others
brought into the investigation that an interview with trump may not be necessary. they do not want to, at the same time, invite a subpoena so they're trying to work on this. he described robert mueller as very professional, even at times when they may disagree about some of the tactics that the president's defense and the special counsel's team would like to deal with, things like when would an interview happen, under what circumstances. he described it as a professional and pleasant relationship thus far. david. >> kelly o'donnell at the white house, thank you very much. now more on the new developments in the financial dealings of president trump's former attorney michael cohen. let's go back to 2014 if we could hear. that's when cohen made $32 million in cash when he sold four manhattan properties. that's what mcclatchy first
reported. that's three times what he paid for those properties a few years early and it was way above what their assessed value was at the time. after making millions, michael cohen for some reason borrowed money to make that hush payment to stormy daniels. and we know know art novartis a paid michael cohen. i'm going to pause here to note that that stormy daniels payment was also denied out of the gate at one point. last year cohen was also paid half a million dollars by columbus nova, a company with ties to viktor vekselberg. josh, let me start with you.
we've seen the role that michael cohen played in washington, d.c., the relationship he developed and fosters with these companies. i want to get a sense how outside the norm that is. there a lot of firms, a lot of people doing the work that michael cohen did. what's different about his? >> well, it's a little bit different in the sense that you have the president's personal attorney still having that attorney/client relationship with president trump as he was pitching these deals to companies. but i think you're quite right, david, that trying to arrange meetings, for example, with your former boss or somebody you know from another walk of life or an earlier career is just par for the course here in washington. there are many fine homes and many who have grown fairly wealthy in the washington area around k street oranging meetings with former colleagues and in some cases former bosses on capitol hill and the executive branch and elsewhere. >> there a lot of people wondering does this constitute a
bribe? what's the legal definition of that. what would change the calculus here? >> there are a number different anti-corruption statutes available to u.s. attorneys. but the two favorites are bribery and extortion. the difference that extortion has a victim. bribery you have a payor and a payee, both of which are committing bribery but at its core you need an official act and a public official involved. michael cohen probably won't count. you will need somebody -- because he's a private scitize citizen -- you will need somebody like president trump and if he is involved or has knowledge, to what degree is he involved? or is michael cohen selling, maybe falsely, the the promise that he can influence donald trump. in the mcdonald case the supreme court realed back in very expansive anti-corruption law
and held that just arranging a meeting and providing mere access and nothing else to a public official does not rise to the level of an official act. that official needs to take some action on that request. it has to influence some official act, a vote or a proceeding or something like that. very specific, very focused to rise to that level. but at the same time justice roberts said in that court opinion that this was some very shady activity. i don't know if he used that word but that's the idea. >> josh gerstein, i know you were at the supreme court, you were at 1 first street when the decision came down. we've seen this play out now. we seen it in new york state for sure. >> you certainly have with that sheldon silver case being overturned pu then him being convicted just yesterday on those similar bribery charges. there was a prediction this would knock a lot of bribery
cases out. as dhabi said, it been sort of a mixed bag since then. there's rarely a videotape or e-mail where somebody says you pay me this much and we'll play. again whether cohen could been doing this from outside the white house, he no way be on the outside and in a position of promising any kind of official act. and on the at&t relationshirela the top official sore under oath he never discussed the matter with president trump or anybody else at the white house. when rudy giuliani suggested maybe that did at that point, it might have been a little loose talk from rudy being a little rusty, if will you.
>> and as we heard from my colleagues, walking that back just a bit. >> the saturday essay in today's wall street journal is by senator john mccain and he's taking aim at vladimir putin. he writes vladimir putin is an evil man. that's just one of many provocative parts in that. >> senator mccain goes on to say he's intent on liberal daeds, that has brought more stability, prosperity and freedom to herman kind. great to have you with me. i want to start by having you react to what senator john
mccain said. the characterization of vladimir putin being evil and his designs as sensely defeating the west, as senator mccain put it. >> senator mccain is right. i agree with his analysis of vladimir putin and his intentions. it wasn't always that way. he it different views earlier in himself presidency but over time they have codified this way and i think he sees his lock-term objective to weaken the united states, to destroy our institutions of the liberal order and first and foremost nato and to push back on what he thinks is the liberal decadent west. he fancies himself as the leader of orthodox christian values. because we're tacking about senator mccain, i met vladimir putin in russia in the spring of 1991 and met senator mccain for the first time in 1996 when he was an election observer when things were much more
democratic, much more democratic and moving in a democratic direction in russia. >> your book is part memoir and par history. let me ask you a question about the history side of things. john mccain talks about 2007 being a very pivotal moment, that the vladimir putin we know changed in 2007. how is that the case? >> well, he's referring to speech he gave at the munich security conference and senator mccain was sitting right in the front row so had some real drama between the two gentlemen. that's when he gave a speech saying we are an imperial power and during that period, president obama and president of
russia at the time, he went back to the original things he outlined in the 2007 speech. >> getting to the memoir part of it. that soured mr. putin to you. how did your relationship to the country and relationship to the government change as a result of that? >> in those early years of the reset, i was mr. reset. i was the guy that was bringing the two countries together. when i would travel to russia, i was quite popular back then and that's why the president, president obama, asked me to continue that as the ambassador. but in between being mr. reset and landing in russia in january 2012 as ambassador two things happened. one, as i already said, putin came back and he was less interested in cooperating with us. he didn't see us as a win-win outcomes in cooperating with the united states. he saw us as more sinister.
two, there were massive demonstrations against putin back then. he blamed us, america, president obama and me and accused me from time to time from supporting these revolutionaries. there's nothing i could do about that. we talk about disinformation and false news today. well, i experienced that firsthand several yooears ago. >> you write, as i conclude this book, my life's work of trying to bring our two countries closer of trying to integrate a democratic russia as a responsible and important stake holder in the international community of states seeps to be -- seems to be a failure." you've got this mix of history and memoir. i ask what it like to be there
in stanford feeling so removed from a country you spent so much time in there. >> i put that in there to be clear i consider the current confrontation between america and russia a tragedy, a missed opportunity. i believed in a democratic russia, a russia that could be closer to the west and at times in my career both as ambassador working at the white house and 20 years earlier working for a nongovernmental organization in moscow believed that could be true and it didn't work out. and the book explains that mostly because of inside russia and what vladimir putin did. i analytically share with senator mccain what happened and that we need to push back and we need a strategy of containment on that. but i don't sign up to that with a lot of joy. i sign up to that with it's just a necessary thing we have to do and i hope that there will be another time for another rapprochement between our countries and another moment of
democratic renewal in russia. i think it will happen in the long run and i think there are reasons to believe it will. i just don't know when the long run begins. >> always a privilege to speak with you. >> thanks for having me. i really appreciate it. >> the author "from cold war to hot peace." >> hours ago israel closed a gaza border crossing damaged in protests by palestinians yesterday. president trump who spearheaded the embassy's relocation will address them with a video. joining me now is an international for npr news with a lot of experience in the middle east. great to have you with me. >> lovely to be here.
thank you. >> let me ask you what you'll be watching for on monday. the embassy has to be constructed, i should say. these are small steps. >> it not so much what happens monday. it what happens afterwards. this is happening on a very fraught date. for the israelis, it's the 70th anniversary of their declaration of independence, for palestinian, it's the anniversary of the period called disaster. we could see demonstrations in gaza, palestinian leaders have called for demonstrations but really i'm going to be watching is what happens in the rest of the middle east. when the announcement was first made, there was surprisingly little reaction. the rest of the region is
looking at other things, looking at iran, looking at syria, looking at yemen. and so it could be this passes with demonstrations in palestine and israel and very little reaction in the middle east. that's what i'm going to be watching for. >> i want to read a little bit about comments that the u.s. ambassador from israel. "the analysis is what is in the best interest of of the united states." as you put all this together, this move, the iran deal and negotiations with saudi arabia, do you see a cohesive strategy there? >> what you didn't mention is north korea. in some ways, that sets the tone of everything else that's happening. tough guy, little diplomacy actually brought something to happen in north korea. it's unlikely to have the same
effect in the middle east but it's the same strategy. and that is the danger in this. let me give you an example. so for since oslo, the american consulate has almost acted as an independent place where american officials talk to the plo palestinian officials. now this is an official embassy for israelis and palestinians. it shuts off this diplomatic line to palestinians. that is not good. and it not that these two communities won't have to negotiate jerusalem at some poem in the peace process, but you're not going to be talking very much to palestinians. i think they are going to sit this out. is that in the best interest of the united states? that's not clear. >> last question about the iran deal. the foreign minister of iran will be in brussels talking to counterparts there. how difficult is that going to
be? when it comes to u.s. strategy toward iran, what are the next steps as you see them? i've seen countless op-eds saying there hasn't been yet to what might happen. >> what next, what next, that's what everybody wants to do. >> the iranians are showing a little humor on all of this. on the instagram feed, the ayatollah khomeini is shown reading the book. for them, they have some big business projects on the line. for the french, it's $5 billion to come in and work on iran's energy sector. you see norway going the same
way. all these countries are at risk. does it put in blocking legislation or does it try to negotiate one on one as it did with the steel sanctions. and iran will be looking closely because if the europeans can stay in the deal, that's what iran wants. but if they can't, if they met the calculation that they risk american business by dealing with iran, that's a whole new ball game. >> we'll keep watching. thank you. >> and delivering a controversial dossier to the fbi. namic lighting elevated comfort powerfully efficient and one more thing
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if your cousin's wife's sister's husband isn't a lawyer, call legalzoom and we'll connect you with an attorney. legalzoom. where life meets legal. [ drum roll ] ...emily lapier from ames, iowa. this is emily's third nomination and first win. um...so, just...wow! um, first of all, to my fellow nominees, it is an honor sharing the road with you. and of course, to the progressive snapshot app for giving good drivers the discounts -- no, i have to say it -- for giving good drivers the discounts they deserve. safe driving! i want to return to the saturday essay by senator john mccain in the wall street journal. the arizona senior senator defends his decision to hand over the now infamous steele
dossier to the fbi . i discharged that obligation, and i would do it again. anyone who doesn't like it can go to hell. john mccain sets the scene in that expert, he's at the halifax international security forum. he talks about an improve mptu meeting, we spoke in lowered voices, the room was dimly lit and the atmosphere was eerie. what do you make of what senator john mccain has recounted here in this excerpt from his book? >> he did the right thing. this has always been the p
perplexing thing, if you have the russians reaching out to you, if you receive communication from wikileaks, the right response is to take it to the fbi and say i think you should assess it. even christopher steele would say this is what i gathered, i'm a collector, now it needs to be analyzed. that's what we would do through a deliberate process. it's interesting to watch, he did all the right things and from his own political party, he's often seen as a villain. it amazing this person who has served so long in this country is in a bad state of health having to fight off against the party that was essentially his. >> put it in his safe in his office and calls james comey at the fbi to talk about it. i want to talk about a report
that senators are talking about a plan b. lawmakers are considering a plan b to protect mueller's work. it would essentially protect the report, protect the work regardless of what happens. is that enough to protect what's been done so far or are you worried about bob mueller's ability to conduct the investigation fully? >> i think it's smart to preserve everything that's been done. i think senator mcconnell was write that the president would be insanely dumb to fire inspector mueller because he's already done a year of investigation. ultimately the investigation is only going to continue until the president sits down. when i hear the white house say you need to hurry this up, yeah, i think you need to get in a
seat. it begs the question if a subpoena will land at the white house someday and compel the president to come and do this. they may be at the end of the investigation or closing in and until they talk to the president can't close. i think it's good they're trying to preserve those records. if director mueller was removed from the special counsel spot, that information is there and will go on. >> why is it so pivotal for bob mueller to finish what he's doing? >> because it happened in response of the firing of james comey. what we have in the investigation is based solely on the fact that director comey was fired by the president. and those questions that leaked out, whether they're the exact questions asked or not are quite relevant. whether it obstruction or
collusion, if the president wants to be cleared, he should want to go and answer those questions. until he answers those questions, this will continue to be a cloud over his head. if he doesn't show up, he'll always have this cloud over his head. >> clint, great to see you. and waffle house outrage calls for a boycott after a video of a prom date and a police choke hold, the second incident at that chain in recent days. you wouldn't accept an incomplete job from any one else. why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase relieves your worst symptoms
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the restaurant chain waffle house is facing growing outrage after new footage with a cell phone shows a black customer taken in a choke hold and slammed into the ground. he reportedly got into an argument with staff inside the restaurant and that's when the cops were called. he's been charged with disorderly conduct and joining me is the co-organizer of the black lives matter movement. family, she writes, let's stay out of waffle house until the corporate office legitimately and seriously commits to, one, discussion on racism, two, employee training, and, three, other plans to change and until
they start to implement changes. what are you going to be watching for in these coming days? >> i support bernese king's call to stay out of waffle house. we've seen incidences in alabama, a woman getting slammed down by police officers and a second where a black man was asked to stay outside while they serve white customers and then this third video. what's going on that causes them to treat black people the way they are.
>> how do you react to the waffle house statement? we see starbucks will be closing their stores at the end of the month for training. how apartme how optimistic are you that it can change in. >> a one-day training, i don't know how much that will change but at least they acknowledge it. and in the waffle house, shakisha was asking for the corporate phone number. that doesn't make sense to me. in the latest video, even if he was asking question, or whatever the police were told about him, it doesn't make sense. three incidents are a pattern.
i'm hopeful that people not going to waffle house will cause them to change. >> in georgia there is that traffic stop in georgia where a 65-year-old woman was pulled over by police. i think what happened in the yale common room a few days ago, a graduate student fell asleep while studying, a white student called the police saying she wasn't allowed to sleep there. on the issue of discomfort, what does that mean to you? >> i think people are using the term because there's not good public discourse around some of the conversations around race and certainly not by police. in sacramento the police union contract literally says police officer disciplinary records get destroyed after one year. that is uncomfortable for people to talk about because there's this idea the police can do whatever they want, as long as it's in the public safety, public interest. but we should start to have
honest conversation about what does it mean that the police play by a different set of rules. in this last incident this young man is being charged with resisting arrest. what kind of world do you live in where anything where you don't comply with the police officer immediately becomes a crime. that's not a world that's just and not equity. >> i'm struck about the yale officer saying it was not something he was supposed to engage in. >> no reports of a flair-up following the leak of a white house staffer's crude comments about senator mccain. >> r kelly, what's behind a new movement causing companies to cut ties with the artist?
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let's look at the outrage about a staffer's remark about senator john mccain. the anger not directed at the aide herself but rather that the remark was leaked. jonathan swan is reporting that white house press secretary sarah huckabee sanders was furious about the leaks, even predicting the very conversation she was having at that moment would be leaked. and it was. as for kelly sadler, the aide who sparked this whole controversy, she still has a job at the trump administration. >> we all said things in private that you would never say publicly. i think she's handled it appropriately. >> jeff, i want you to walk us through what the white house is saying publicly compared to what we've been finding out has been happening behind closed doors with