tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC May 17, 2018 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT
machine is now being wheeled out for use. it's not about the truth that works. it's about standing up for donald trump right or wrong. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. >> tonight on "all in" into this russia thing with trump and russia is a madeup story. >> one year of the mueller probe, and everyone now agrees, it's bigger than watergate. >> far bigger than watergate. >> the trump team starts year two with another contorted defense. >> if there was collusion with the russians, they would have used it. >> tonight, the collusion, the obstruction, and why this investigation is only getting bigger. then. >> i'll do anything to protect mr. trump. >> the ongoing fallout from the new yorker's piece on michael cohen's slush fund. plus. >> these aren't people. these are animals. >> the full context and the massive problem with the president's language on immigrants. >> i referred to them as animals and guess what, i always will.
>> and have you ever wondered what it's like to meet donald trump? >> when i walked in, his first sentence kind of tre me off. he said trump hears that you don't like what trump is doing. and i thought wow, that you're trump. >> tonight exclusive video of bill gates describing what happened the two times he met donald trump. >> both times he wanted to know if there was a difference between hiv and hpv. >> when all in starts right now. >> good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. today one year into the mueller probe, donald trump is fund-raising off the fact that he is mired in the worst criminal investigation of a president since watergate. trump e-mailing supporters today with this message on this anniversary of the greatest witch hunt in american history it, i am asking you to renew your sustaining membership for the 2018 year to show the witch hunters that not a single patriot backed down from our fight. fact check. some of the people who were
burned at the stake would probably disagree with you there. take that, witch hunters. keep in mind that the supposed witch hunt has ensnared the president's campaign chairman and his former national security adviser among others while his lawyer/fixer has seen his office raided and appears to be headed towards a serious indictment. that former trump campaign chairman paul manafort is currently wearing two ankle bracelets for his two looming trials and just a few hours ago on the, we learned manafort's former son-in-law has pled guilty and been cooperate with the government. more on that in a moment. on the senate floor this morning, chuck schumer pointed out the obvious. >> it's not a witch hunt when 17 russians have been indicted. it's not a witch hunt when the some of the most senior members of the trump campaign have been indicted. we should all be aghast on this one-year anniversary of mueller's appointment at the smear campaign by the president and his allies.
>> team trump says that one year of mueller is more than enough. rudy guiliani telling poe at this time lit co, come on, they've had a whole year. we're going to try to get this thing over with. for the record, the watergate probe lasted more than two years in and one year in, richard nixon was also getting antsy. >> i believe the time has come to bring na investigation and the other investigations of this matter to an end. one year of watergate is enough. >> trump himself is a big fan of invoking watergate. who can forget when he made his baseless claim that will president obama tapped his phones and added this is a sick guy. this morning after trump tv promoted the latest devin nunes theory to emerge from the swamps, trump said if true it's bigger than watergate. giuliani is making the argument trump couldn't have colluded because he and his campaign never used the russian dirt. >> they never used it is the
main thing. they rejected. if there was collusion with the russians, they would have used it. >> they rejected what now? that is extremely incorrect. the russians are, of course, the ones that hacked the dnc e-mails. according to the center for american progress, wikileaks dropped the podesta e-mails less than an lawyer after the access hollywood tape came out and trump sited them in the final days of his campaign. joining me is congressman jerry nadler, democrat of new york. first, congressman what, do you think of the notion that a year is enough and it's dragged on too long? >> well, a year historically has not been enough. watergate prosecution lasted two years. the benghazi probe lasted three years over nothing. and the fact of the matter is we know that so far, the mueller investigation has been leak proof but what we know is they've gotten 19 or 20 indictments a bunch of guilty pleas.
and they're going forward. and by the way, this cannot be wrapped up at least the obstruction of justice part of it cannot be wrapped up till after the president is interviewed by mueller and if he wants it wrapped up, he'll submit to an interview and won't make them drag him through a subpoena which would take months and months before he would end up testifying. > rudy jew, the president's lawyer who is working for free has argued because the doj guidance that the president can't be indicted he therefore can't be subpoenaed even, his testimony cannot be compelled, do you agree with that? >> that's frankly nonsense. every man's evidence is available to the courts and to justice. whether the president can be indicted by the way is debatable. there are office of legal council opinions that say he cannot be. there are opinions from ken starr's office and leon jaworski's office that say he can be. i think he can be because to say
he cannot be indicted is to say that he is above the law and that the framers set up another king which they were rebelling against which is unconceivable. he certainly can be subpoenaed and as president clinton was subpoenaed in the paula jones case and as nixon was in his case. >> the tapes were subpoenaed specifically. >> there's no difference between subpoenaing documents and testimony. >> the other argument that i've heard from rudy guiliani is essentially that mueller is running a sort of shadow impeachment campaign because democrats don't have the house and there is what this is all about, that they don't have the house and so this is -- mueller is essentially trying to do what democratic politics can't do. >> well, that's ridiculous. again, there's been no leaks from this investigation. all we know are the people who have been indicted, the people who pled guilty and the court filings.
they don't indicate anything about the investigation other than that it seems to be very thorough and rapid. and the fact of the matter is that three things have to happen. the president has to testify which he will sooner or later. the special prosecutor has to write a report which he will. i assume. and we have to make sure ha that report is given to the public so we know what's going on. based on the evidence that comes out in that report, then congress will have to make decisions about what if any action to take. key is that all of that has to be public. and that we have to insist that that report comes out before the election that our republican colleagues join us in making sure that that report becomes public. if they do not, that will abelection sniper i heard something i've not heard before. insist it happens before the election. >> i didn't say that. i said if the report comes out before the election insists it be made public. >> so the report is completed,
what you're saying is it must be the case that upon completion and transmission to congress, that be made public more or less immediately particularly if there's a question about whether it would be public before or after the election. >> whether he ever the report comes out whether it's before or after the election, it should be made public. what i said if it's before the election, i would hope our republican colleagues would join us on insisting it be made public at that point. >> jerry nadler, thanks for being with me. mueller investigation is one year old. but the fbi investigation into trump dates back to the summer of 2016 and the heart of that campaign season. really fascinating new "new york times" report sheds light on the origins of that investigation known by the code name crossfire hurricane. and just how far the fbi went to keep it quiet, for one thing, agents considered them rejected interviewing key trump associates which might have sped up the investigation but risked revealing the existence of the case. the fbi did have course, we should note, reveal its investigation to hillary clinton
talked quite a bit about it with james comey even announcing shortly before the election he was reopening the case a move many argued cost clinton the election. for more on the investigations, i'm joined by justice analyst matt miller, former spokesperson for the department of justice and national security clinter and ace "new york times" reporter michael schmidt. you have been reporting on there quite a bit. i want to starts with what the president said this morning. because it's based partly on reporting of "the new york times." so the president says this morning, words seem to be coming out obama fbi spied on the trump campaign with an embedded informant. quoting "fox & friends." there's probably no doubt they had at least one confidential informant in the campaign. if so this is bigger than watergate. >> how would you characterize what your reporting found? >> what my colleagues put out was a story on how the fbi went to extreme lengths at the
beginning of its russia investigation looking at trump ties to russia to keep it secret. certain folks at the justice department that normally would have been told weren't. as you were just pointing out held back on taking some investigative measures thinking going overt would cast a shadow on this thing when they didn't know. i think people don't appreciate how early they were on in the investigation how little they knew. and they knew they would not be able to solve this by election day. they knew that counter intelligence investigations especially complex ones like this could take years to figure out. and they were trying to get to the bottom of it but know, trying to do so in a fashion that would not taint the political process. >> in some ways what's relayed in that article and that care they took is proper and admiral because for precisely the reasons they feared, you don't want an fbi investigation to cast a cloud over a person in a way that changes an election. >> that is exactly. >> but i hate to pick at that
scab but you brought it up. that is exactly the way you're supposed to handle an investigation of this sensitivity. when you compare it to the clinton case, everyone talks about the situation comey was in where if they had. the anthony weiner laptop and they had to look at it, then he had to go notify congress. the important comparison is they didn't have to look before the election. they could have made the same decision they made with the trump investigation which is to delay flew overt investigative steps because there was no reason to. evidence is going to be destroyed, witnesses are going to flee, none of that was at stake. >> you can make that prudential decision. you can say look, it's important that we don't taint an american election with our activities and so we'll push something off. the key detail though is this idea that an informant that a government informant talked to two people on the campaign, george papadopoulos and carter page. >> yeah, the stuff on papadopoulos and page that we have doesn't comport with that. >> i want to be clear.
right. >> no. >> i want to nail down what's -- >> look, there's a lot of different things that have floated out there about this investigation that having -- and some things that the fbi has made mistakes on and has been criticized for, the text messages between the lead agent on the case and the lawyer at the fbi. that's a mistake that exposed has exposed the bureau to accusations of bias in the process and has done damage to them. other accusations about what the fbi did, why they started is the investigation and such have turned out not to be true. there's a lot of different things floated out there because this is a political issue at this point. this is a massive investigation but at the end of the day it, involves the president and it involves politics. >> i want to talk about this quote about the government informant because that has been what the president is sort of building this on, what trump tv talked about. at least one informant met several times with mr. page and olympian papadopoulos. that has become a contentious
point trump's allies questioning whether they were trying to trap campaign officials. >> this is one of the weird things. every once in awhile the president himself will roll out an argument that helps him. they're very damaging. the obama administration tapped my phones at trump tower would have been extremely damaging fact if it were true because it meant a fisa judge approved wiretapping of his phone with serious evidence. this is another example of that. if there was an informant in the campaign who was talking to the fbi, it's because that informant presumably saw evidence of a crime and wanted to report it to law enforcement. you know, they're trying to twist that now and say that it's spying of some sort. but it's a damaging fact. one last thing about weather said about the obama fbi. there's no such thing as the obama fbi. just as there's no such thing as the trump fbi. this week which is police week in washington, the week that law enforcement is being honored, the attorney general two days in
a rowe monday and tuesday said this is the era where we back law enforcement. once again you see the president attacking law enforcement and trying to undermine them. >> this sort of attack on the fbi is escalating right now. it seems to me that this is only going to escalate. rudy guiliani said we're going to bring pressure to bear. it seems there's a plan across the board to try to bringing that pressure to bear. >> i sometimes struggle to understand what giuliani is doing. he's thrown a lot of different things. >> you're not alone, michael. >> i get paid to do it, and i'm struggling with it. he's thrown a lot of different things at the wall about a lot of things from stormy daniels to stuff about the investigation. and it's hard to figure out whether he's trying to confuse folks, he's trying to put stuff out there by putting some of the stormy daniels that took some of the bite out of the disclosure the other day. they are thinking ahead in a way that maybe they weren't before. but it's not -- the president wanted voeskts out there, people
who could go on cable television and push his line. i think giuliani has done that. >> i will leave you with this bit of wisdom from rudy giuliani. he said he would be surprised if trump knew about that trump tower meeting but if the president did know, he said, i would be surprised if he could remember. smart. matt miller, mike willing schmidt, thanks for being with me. ahead, if you've ever wondered what the founder ofmost thinks about donald trump, tonight we have your answer. bill gates dishes an exclusive video obtained by "all in." trust me, you will want to see this. breaking news paul manafort's former son-in-law cut a deal with federal investigators. what that means from the mueller investigation in two minutes. ♪ you can be sure ♪ that it will only get better ♪ you and me together
plea deal with the justice department. reuters breaking the news tonight that jeffrey yohai pled guilty to charges in los angeles stemming from a federal investigation into his real estate dealings requiring him to cooperate with the other criminal probes twoebs people familiar with the matter said. he has not been told how he will be called on to cooperate as part of the plea agreement. the two people say it consider it a possibility he will be asked to assist with the mueller's prosecution of manafort. to put this in context with all the other legal woes of trump world, i'm joined by benjamin wittes from law fair and andrea bernstein, co-host of the trump, inc. podcast. former son gnaw yohai was also a business patient of manafort's, is that right? >> we do know they were involved in financial transactions in relation to paul manafort's brownstone town house in brooklyn. and this town house is at the center of the indictment is, the
allegation by bob mueller is that there was money ill gotten gains from the ukraine laundered through this house in brooklyn. and that is one of the charges of money laundering in the indictment. there are court papers. there are loan documents on file in new york that show the two in some kind of financial relationship. there's not a lot of details what that is, but clearly, this is leading very close to what bob mueller is looking at. >> ben, i'm reminded of judge ellis in the eastern district of virginia who sort of gave the government a hard time at a hearing of paul manafort where he says you guys are trying to get paul manafort to roll on the president and trying to squeeze this guy. one thinks indicting his former son-in-law who knows things about his business practices probably bought real pressure on paul manafort. >> look, the indictment, we don't know the contours of the plea agreement. we don't know the nature of the cooperation they're seeking from him. actually according to the
reuters story, he doesn't yet know. right. >> or at least the people who have talked to about it don't yet know. so look, could there be a cooperation, a form of cooperation designed to exert pressure on manafort? yeah, it could be that. it could also be the fact that this is a guy who has independent or quasi independence legal problem. this isn't the -- a family that dots the is and crosses all the ts legally. so you know, you put a bunch of people under this kind of scrutiny, all kinds of things are going to come up. it's kind of worth waiting and seeing what the relationship between this and the manafort case really is. >> one more note on this which is that mueller did send a team of prosecutors to interview yohai last june asking about manafort's ties with trump, borrowing against properties in
new york and so that was in that report we still know ben's point whether this indictment will ultimately relate. i want to ask a question about a story that broke yesterday which was an amazing shocking story about a whistleblower who leaked a suspicious activity report that was the basis for all the reporting on michael cohen's essential consultants and the payments he was getting from various entities and the, what, precipitated him to do that was he said there were suspicious activity reports missing in that database and he was worried someone mucked them. fincen said they will limit access to certain suspicious activity reports when requested by law enforcement authorities in connection with an ongoing investigation. what do you make of that? >> so i make of it that will in the context of a lot of -- first of all, i don't believe that material went missing from this database or that the sars
vanished or anything like that. i do think this is an area where there's intense interest and therefore, the chances of leaks of sars are nontribal and in fact have happened. and my guess is that somebody may have said hey, maybe we should restrict access to this for that reason. i don't know what the reason was but i am very suspicious of the idea that anything went missing here. >> yeah. >> i mean i think that it's such an interesting mirror image of your top story which is about president trump's charges that the fbi was after him and rigging law enforcement. and what we know about the suspicious activity report is it was leaked by a federal official that thought that was happening under the trump administration. >> in the other direction. >> there is other explanations, perhaps prosecutors removed it from view. this official thought maybe
there was some kind of hanky panky. we don't know. >> paranoia has set in among everyone partly because of the times we live in and how all the stuff is bound up. there's the fact that the actual content which was in the report that there are two other suspicious activity reports that have even bigger pools of money that appear to have been flowing through michael cohen's essential consultants. >> right. so if you take both the fincen report and the new yorker story as true, which is to say there are these two other reports that they blocked access to but not the ones that leaked last week, right? that suggests that there is some need to protect these other ones from an investigative point of view that is much stronger than the need to protect the ones that were not protected. and that suggests that there's some really sensitive material in there.
>> and given what we already know that a russian oligarch linked investment fund paid michael cohen which is sort of explosive news on its own, you have to wonder what is in the other reports that somebody wanted to keep under wraps. >> a swathe of obstruction has been behind this. a person lost their job at at&t, novartis fired its general counsel. more information has sort of ripple effects throughout the world. >> they're trying to get ahead of it and probably doing a pretty good job because what they're trying to say is we were duped, we made a mistake. >> thank you both. >> thank you. up next, the president doesn't back down from his animals remark yesterday. hear what he had to say because "all in" exclusive footage of bill gates trying to avoid the president, bizarre questions about vaccines and trump style stunts. >> he went up and talked to jen and was being super nice.
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>> i'm referring and you know i'm refer together ms-13 gangs that are coming in. these are animals. they're coming into our country. we're getting them out. they come in again, we're getting them out. we need strong immigration laws. we have the weakest laws in the entire world. we have laws that are laughed at on immigration. so when the ms-13 comes in when the other gang members come into our country, i refer to them as
animals and guess what, i always will. >> president today attempted to clarify the immigrant animals comments he made arguing he was only referring to ms-13 gang members. if you take a minute to watch the full context of trump's comment yesterday which you should do, what you might discover is the president really likes to conflate all immigration issues and immigrants with violent criminality. it's something he's been doing his entire political career. >> ms-13 gang member i know about, if they don't reach a certain threshold, i cannot tell i.c.e. about them. >> we have people coming into the country or trying to come in. we're stopping a lot of them. but we're taking people out of the country. you wouldn't believe how bad these people are. these aren't people. these are animals. and we're taking them out of the country at a level and at a rate that's never happened before. and because of the weak laws
they come in fast. we get them. we reese them. we get them again. we bring them out. it's crazy. >> talk more about the president's dehupnizing rhetoric, republican strategist matt mackowiak and maria hinojosa. maria, you were shake your head during that clip. your thoughts? >> so chris look, i'm going to remain calm because we're on national television. but seriously, as somebody who was not born in this country and i refuse to allow this president to kind of define good immigrant, bad immigrant because the litmus test at this point is that people who were not born in this country are animals. so i'll remain calm but seriously our hair should be on fire because i was in rwanda and so i spoke to journalists who spoke to me me about what happened there and how the tutsis were referred to as cockroaches. so the terps that people use
really have a connection. i mean, there's such a clear connection to what the president is saying. and then read bth fact that children are now going to be separated from their mothers when they're trying to come to this country to seek refuge. first of all, there are norse canning members that are coming here in droves to seek refuge. these are women and children, second of all, ms-13, dear mr. trump, is an american gang. do you know about american gangs like we've had them? have you watched the movie "gangs of new york" "ms-13 is an american gang. we don't have the aprilgration problem regarding ms-13. we have a criminal problem that has nothing to do with immigration and sadly, chris, we have to then spend our time talking about this and trying to break down something that the president has created. the beauty is that people are taking control of that narrative. you know, now when you see something, say something, when
people see someone being talked to disrespectply because there's an immigrant or being treated like an animal or speaking in spanish and being disrepresented that's when you say something, when you see something like people being treated like animals because that's what the president is calling us, you say something. >> matt, do you understand why the president's rhetoric doesn't give him a huge amount of benefit of the doubt when he talks about ms-13 and such. >> yes. i'm reminded of that brilliant insight throughout the campaign that the mainstream media takes trump literally but not seriously and trump supporters take him seriously and not literally. i admit his vocabulary is not the broadest and widest of previous presidents. he often likes to use specific phrases. they're comfortable for him to use. on the issue of race there have been times when he said things that have created controversy and that some people have seen as ratesist. i understand that. in this case, i don't think that
fighting over whether ms-13 is a scourge in this country that creates real problems, 10,000 ms-13 members in this country, there's famous for machete attacks, their motto rape control. >> oh, please. >> oh please what. >> you deny there's ten,000 of them. >> we're talking about immigration and suddenly we're talking about you're talking about certain gang members who have done horrific acts within the context of immigration? that's what you're trying to do. that's exactly what sadly journalists like i have to confront and say you cannot put the two together. it is absolutely important when we say that ms-13 is a gang that was born in los angeles. i'm not going to allow you to say that this is some kind of immigrant imported gang. it's not true. >> maria, does ms-13 prey on immigrants? yes or no. >> absolutely. let me tell you something, this is not immigration problem. this is a criminal problem. that has nothing to do with one thing or the other.
you and the president want to put the two together. myself as someone who was not born in this country who reports on immigrants will refuse anyone who attempts to make that happen because it's not true. >> understand in this case, he was responding to something that a sheriff in fresno county was saying which is an important point to make. i'm sorry, chris, go ahead. >> finish that. i want to follow up on that. >> i just wanted to say, again, i recognize on immigration he has not always used language that is specific and that is careful. that's part of the reason why i think he is seen as such a bold speaker and able to get the attention of the media and of his supporters. he recognize that. i do. i would also put on the table the fact that he put a path to citizenship on the table for the daca kids farther than any other elected republican has gone. i think if you want to talk about immigration, we can talk about that in the broader sense. this is about ms-13. >> i think that was bad faith. let's put that aside. this was an interesting case.
there's the idea about the criminalization. they're au gang members, gang affiliat affiliated. the specific question of the slayer riff was she's frustrated she cannot deem someone ms-13. she says i know quote they're ms-13. lots of things people know aren't true. this is a federal judge, a bush appointee smacking down i.c.e. in court because they tried to deport a daca kid who they said was gang affiliated who was not. despite providing no evidence specific to mr. ramirez to the immigration court in connection with his administrative proceedings and offering no evidence to the court to support its assertions four months later. this strikes me as precisely the issue. when you say the sheriff was saying i'm frustrated with the process, the due process that is being demanded of me to deem someone a gang member. >> well, i guess the question i would ask back to that, was there no due process before trump was in office? that's the question.
>> in immigration courts, not much. >> well -- >> i don't know how much time you spend around immigration courts but not much. >> i worked at the department of homeland security. there's no example that makes due process look bad. i have no doubt about that. you have to recognize that there criminal gang is a very serious threat particularly in new york and v, throughout the northeast, yes in los angeles. they operate in 40 states. 10,000 members around the country. i'm not saying every single member is an illegal alien. i don't know the numbers. >> did you just say illegal alien on national television. >> i said they're not. >> are you serious? i'm sorry. so you just labeled immigrants aliens and you're calling human beings illegals? remind you illegals is not a noun. we are not illegals and it is not a noun. the thing that you said chris, you said trump likes to use comfortable language for him.
comfortable language. okay. that you is a problem. what is comfortable for this president. what is also comfortable for this president sadly we have to recognize is he lies on multiple occasions which filters down to his parts of his administration. so that i.c.e. is lying? this is not the first time that i.c.e. has lied. latino usa broke the story of the undocumented transimmigrant taken from a courtroom and i.c.e. said they weren't there. the videotape proved they were lying. >> 143,000 arrests of those 796ms-13. less than 1%. whatever you think about ms-13, a lot of people being pulled out of the have nothing to do with it. >> coming up next, a republican congressman revolutionary climate change idea. plus all in exclusive video you don't want to miss. hear one of the richest men on
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his home state to roy moore placing third after spending nearly 1 maryland in the race. congressman brooks endorses moore in the general election and when allegations emerged moore had sexually assaulted underage girls, let's just say he didn't handle it so well. >> . >> i believe that the democrats will do great. >> well, it's been a few months now and it looks like brooks is back to his good old hot takes. today he issued a literal hot take as in a take about heat. that's thing 2 in 60 seconds. tr. even when i travel... for leisure. so i go national, where i can choose any available upgrade in the aisle - without starting any conversations- -or paying any upcharges. what can i say?
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you have the waves crashing against the shorelines and time and time again you're having the cliffs all into the sae displaces water which forces it to rise, does it not. >> i'm pretty sure on human time scales those are plin skul effects. >> that was a u.s. congressman on the science committee arguing to a respected scientist sea levels are rising because a lot of rocks are falling in the water. but mo brooks wasn't done yet. >> would it surprise you to know as global temperatures rise assuming for the moment that they do, that that actually increases the amount of ice that is collected on antarctica. >> that's not true, sir. we have satellite records clearly documenting a shrinkage of the ice sheet and acceleration of that shrinkage. >> i'm sorry. i don't know where you're getting your information but the data i have seen. >> and data center, international aeronaught ticks and space administration. >> i've got a nas sass base in my district. apparently they're telling you one thing and me a different
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do you ever wonder what people poe ho have met donald trump especially powerful successful people in american business and beyond who have had to try to interact with him because he's the leader of the free world say behind closed doors? "all in" obtained never before seen footage that gives you an idea of what one of the wealthest men in the world bill gates think of the president. he took questions during a recent foundation meeting with staff and talked about meeting donald trump. here's what he had to say. >> yeah, so i've, i never had met donald trump before he was elected. there was a thing during the election where he and i were at the same place and i avoided him. anyway, then he got elected. and so i went to see him in december. he -- he knew my daughter
jennifer because trump has this horse show thing down in florida. in fact, he went up and talked to jen and was being super nice. and then like 20 minutes later, he thr he flew in on a helicopter to the same place. clearly he wanted to make a grand entrance in a helicopter. anyway, so when i first talked to him, it was actually kind of scary how much he knew about my daughter's appearance. but linda didn't like that too well. anyway, so i saw him at trump tower and i said hey, science and innovation is a great thing. you should be a leader who drives -- and that conversation was about a broad set of things in energy, in health, in education. you know, pick things you want
to do that are big, hiv vaccine. you could accelerate that. be associated with innovation. and then the second time i saw him was i saw him was the march after that. so march 2017 in the white house. in both of those two meetings he asked me if vaccines weren't a bad thing because he was considering a commission to look into ill effects of vaccines. and somebody whose name is robert kennedy jr. was advising him that vaccines were causing bad things. and i said no, that's a dead end. that would be a bad thing. don't do that. both times he wanted to know if there was a difference between hiv and hpv. so i was able to explain that those are rarely confused with each other. >> oh, but wait, there's more, including how president trump talks about himself, next.
>> when i walked in, his first sentence kind of threw me off. he said, "trump hears that you don't like what trump is doing." and i thought, wow. but you're trump. there was an m so small no one thought much of it at all. people said it just made a mess until exxonmobil scientists put it to the test. they thought someday it could become fuel and power our cars wouldn't that be cool? and that's why exxonmobil scientists think it's not small at all. energy lives here. at fidelity, our online u.s. equity trades are just $4.95. so no matter what you trade, or where you trade, you'll only pay $4.95. fidelity. open an account today. you'll only pay $4.95.
when i walked in, his first sentence threw me off. he said, "trump hears you that you don't like what trump is doing." and i thought, wow. but you're trump. i don't know if the third-party form was what was expected. you know, gates says. [ laughter ] but gates knows that you're not doing things right. >> that was microsoft founder
bill gates at a recent gates foundation meeting describing a meeting with president trump in video obtained exclusively by us at "all in." we reached out to the foundation of course for comment but have not yet received a response. joining me now to talk about, it democratic strategist tara nidell and msnbc contributor josh barrow, senior editor at business insider. you wonder what those meetings are like. because obviously all these people have to go into the room with him and i think a lot of these people don't respect him, don't think very highly of him and have to pretend to. what do you make of it? >> he said gates knows you're wrong. we're looking at a president that doesn't know the difference between hiv and hpv but he has memorized bill gates' daughter's appearance. so if he spent more time actually learning policy, if he devoted just a quarter of the time that he devotes to harassing women and gawking at women to actual policy, memorizing and learning policy, i think the country would be a lot better off. so this is what we have. we have a president that spends more time -- >> that's where the mental
energy is. >> -- gawking at women and memorizing their appearances than we do actually doing policy briefings or actual work. >> although i think one thing i learned from this is in this instance it's a good thing he wasn't spending the time on policy because this question he asks gates about should i have a commission about these vaccine conspiracy theories, this was a thing that had been in the news at the time. there had been a meeting in january at trump tower before trump took office. robert f. kennedy jr. who's a leading proponent of vaccine conspiracy theories and spreads this nonsense about vaccines cause autism, whatever, he took a meeting at trump tower and came down and said the president has asked me to chair a commission on vaccines. people freaked out. why is he going to do that? at the time the transition team said no decision has been made yet. then robert kennedy comes out and says i've had a bunch of meetings. and it seems there weren't just bill gates, there were other people around the president who said to him no, don't do that and the inertia in the white house where a lot of things don't get done i think it's a good thing that thing didn't get done. >> this is the thing, though,
that he doesn't -- i want to distinguish between two things, being not a smart person, which i don't think is true of him, and not caring about details of anything. and just the latter is so evident this all of the accounts of him. it's very evident here. and very evident from bill gates, which whatever you think about bill gates, he does care about the details. >> that's right. first of all, he's arrogant. donald trump, as insecure as he is, it drives this arrogance that he has as well. so you're right, he doesn't care about the details and on top of it you add to the fact that he thinks he knows more than people like bill gates. he is the first president in 50 years that has not nominated a science adviser. in 50 years in the united states. multiple republicans and democrats. >> let me play one more clip. gates sort of -- it's very interesting because you get to see a little bit also about how people like gates think of the president. here's him describing him as a good salesman. take a listen. >> so at one point in the
conversation we were talking about all this scientific possibility, and you know, he -- he actually in a conversation like that wants to be friendly, wants to -- you know, he's a good salesman. he's mostly sold real estate historically. >> i mean, you often hear from people who come out of his meetings and they say he's very charming. >> yeah. >> edition a good salesman. and in terms of him not caring about the details of things, he's convinced that he just has a fantastic gut intuition about all sorts of things, writes in "the all art of the deal" about this is how he does real estate, you stand on the corner, ask people if this is a good neighborhood or not, market research studies are crap. and it served him well at certain points in his career p he made a big bet in manhattanish. >> people thought he was krazy. >> when people thought the city was going to hell and he said this is going to be luxurious and wonderful as well. it doesn't work so well on
vaccine policy to say i'm just going to go by my gut. >> there's a way of conducting yourself here -- i mean, the detail about talking about his daughter and how it like skeeves out melinda gates, there's also a lack of self-awareness that i find so fascinating. >> oh, clearly. the fact that you would say that in front of both bill gates and melinda gates given first of all even if you were that shady, which we know trump is, the fact you that would feel so comfortable as to say that in front of this couple, this global icon couple and feel comfortable saying that and in detail -- >> let me tell but the nizical appearan appearance of your daughter -- >> the president does things that make him sound creepy all the time. he's talked on national television about how he might date his daughter. >> tara oud'll and josh barrow. thank you very much. don't forget you can get this show "all in" as a podcast. you can get it straight into your ear holes.
and make sure you check out all three of the episodes of our brand new podcast, supplementary special for you. it's called "why is this happening?" and you can subscribe away. three episodes waiting for you right now. that's "all in" for this evening. "the rachel maddow show" starts right now. good evening, rachel. >> chris hayes, i very rarely, if ever, tweet public ly to let people know they have to see something that's coming up on your show. but that tape of bill gates -- >> wild, right? >> -- is absolutely right. the one part of this i don't think you addressed this on your show but i'm curious as to what you think about it. what do you think -- how do you think the president will react to this tape of bill gates talking about him this way? >> i think it is almost like engineered in a lab to touch the most intense insecurities he has, which is being laughed at and mocked by people who view him as kind of nouveau riche and that his entire life has been driven