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tv   MSNBC Live With Velshi and Ruhle  MSNBC  August 23, 2018 8:00am-9:00am PDT

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one of the moms in that picture saying, quote, my baby would have died if she had stayed in venezuela. important reminder of the struggles that country is still facing. the photographer here, nachos doche from reuters. you can send me a snapchat or instagram. more news nor from ali vels who only has good things to say. good afternoon. >> i'll probably catch you later this afternoon. thursday august 23rd, let's get smarter. >> michael cohen, tell me about your relationship with him. >> he was a lawyer for me for -- one of many. they would say the lawyer and they would add the fixer. i don't know if he was a fixer. yo i don't know where that term came from. he didn't do big deals. small deals. turned out he wasn't that good,
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frankly. >> did the funds come out of the campaign? >> they didn't come out of the campaign, they came from me. it's not even a campaign violation. if you look at president obama, he had a massive campaign violation, but he had a different attorney general. almost everybody that runs for office has campaign violations, but what michael cohen pled to weren't even campaign-related. they westeren't crimes. >> if thaey're not illegal, why would he use that information for a plea deal? >> because he makes a better deal when he uses me, like everyone else. one of the reasons i respect paul manafort so much is he went through that trial. it's called flipping and it ought to almost be illegal. they make up things and now they go from ten years to they're a national hero. >> are you considering pardoning paul manafort? >> i have great respect in terms of what he's done and what he's gone through, and i would say what he did, some of the charges they threw against him, every
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consultant, every lobbyist in washington probably does. >> jeff sessions, there are rumors you're going to fire him after the midterms and rosenstein. they also want these documents. they're wondering if you will use your power to get these documents released? >> at the right time, i think i'll have to give them the documents. i didn't want to, but i think i'm going to have to. there is such corruption. it's the obama administration. you look at what happened. they surveilled my campaign. it's very simple. the pfizer report, the phony -- >> paul manafort signed the pfizer report. will you fire him, will you fire sessions? >> i wanted to stay uninvolved, but when everyone sees what's going on in the justice department -- i always put justice now in quotes -- it's a very sad day. jeff sessions recused himself, which he shouldn't have done. what kind of man is this? and by the way, he was on the campaign. he knows there was no collusion. what's come out of manafort?
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no collusion. what's come out of michael cohen. no collusion. >> if the democrats take back power, do you believe they'll try to impeach you? >> i guess it's something like high crimes and all. i don't know how you can impeach somebody who has done a great job. i tell you what, if i ever got impeached, i think the market would crash. i think everybody would be very poor. i give myself an a-plus. i don't think any president has ever done what i've done in the short term. >> is the press the enemy? >> no, but the fake news is. and the fake news is a big chunk, okay? somebody said, what's the chunk? i said 80%. it's a lot. >> how close, i want to know, did this jury come to convicting paul manafort on all 18 counts? >> by one. there was one holdout. >> what was their reasoning, if they shared it with you? >> reasonable doubt on the person,
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person. a female juror, we all tried to convince her to look at the paper trail. we laid it out in front of her again and again, and she still said that she had a reasonable doubt. >> wow. the president may have admitted to a federal crime this morning in an otherwise softball interview on fox news. that's the kind he usually has there. it came when mr. trump was asked about hush money. hush money his own attorney arranged to porn stars. hush money paid to keep their alleged affairs with trump quiet. hush money to keep them quiet right before the 2016 presidential election. >> they didn't come out of the campaign, they came from me, and i tweeted about it. i don't know if you know, but i tweeted about the payments. but they didn't come out of campaign. >> but that's exactly the problem. the huffington post points out that if the payments came out of the campaign, there wouldn't be a problem, but they would have
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had to have been reported, defeating the purpose. if the payments came from an individual, they would be limited to $2,700 in the 2016 election cycle. anything exceeding that would be a campaign finance violation, which is a federal crime. and a more serious one when it is a willful violation. the president's accidental admission in a tv interview is oddly reminiscent of one last year when he spoke to lester holt linking the russian probe. >> regardless of the violation, i was going to fire comey knowing there was no good time to do it. and in fact, when i decided to just do it, i said to myself, i said, you know, this russia thing with trump and russia is a made-up story. >> wow. joining me right now is msnbc news intelligence ken delaney, and executive director of crew,
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citizens for responsibility and ethics. joyce, let's start with the president's lawyer, rudy giuliani, pushing back on twitter, arguing that it would have been a violation of campaign finance law if the campaign had made the payments, which is why cohen did it instead. make sense of this for me. does that make any sense at all? >> so, again, giuliani, i think his job is not to run a legal strategy, it's to run a public relations strategy. and it's clear that the public relations strategy here will be to take what's already a hypertechnical area of the law, campaign finance violations, and make it seem insignificant and not a crime in the eyes of the public. of course, we all know that michael cohen has pleaded guilty to this violation. this morning the president has, in essence, acknowledged his role in it, but i think the strategy we'll see coming forth from giuliani and the rest of the president's supporters will be trying to make this seem so
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unreal, so unimportant, so mystical that there won't be public outcry. >> noah crew has responded to giuliani's tweet with a threat that ended this way. when giuliani said trump spent the money and nothing illegal happened, are they telling you how nothing illegal happened? >> that's true in two ways. as you already said, the fact the money did not come from the campaign means it was a contribution to the campaign, which makes it that kind of an illegal contribution. and in addition, the fact that the president is essentially saying that michael cohen paid this, and he, the president, knew that he was paying cohen back later, the following year, means that this was a debt for michael cohen -- a debt to michael cohen that the president owed that he need to ed to repon
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his financial disclosure forms in 2017. he did not do that. that is a false statement. that's also a federal crime. and his statements and his lawyer's statements seem to provide a lot of extra evidence of that crime as well. >> all right, ken delaney, i want to ask you about his comments in that interview about paul manafort. he was asked clearly whether he would pardon or he's considering pardoning paul manafort. he didn't actually say no. this is the second time in two daisies been asked. he didn't say no. he does paul manafort is a fine guy and the whole thing is unfair. >> i think it's very clear he's giving serious consideration to pardoning paul manafort. if you think about the law in this country, that interview was a travesty, because the president of the united states basically suggested his own justice prosecutors are routinely putting liars on the stand to convict innocent people. he said, i use the term justice in quotes, to talk about the justice of the united states of america.
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he praised paul manafort for standing strong and not flipping while criticizing michael cohen for cooperating with prosecutors. on this question of the cohen contribution, the issue is was the money given to influence the election? >> yes. it's secondary. >> donald trump can give as much money to his campaign as he wants. there is no individual limit to the campaign, but it had to be accounted for if it was to influence the election. it seems like there was a lot of evidence in this case that that was what it was about. the only defense trump has is it wasn't about the election, it was some other reason, but i think tapes and text messages are going to blow that defense out of the water. >> and the timing of it. joyce, let's talk about the comments the president said about jeff sessions, the attorney general, and rod rosenstein. he was asked specifically if he would fire these two guys. there is talk about firing jeff sessions after the election. again, he didn't say yes but he said what he said in the past.
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jeff sessions was in the campaign. what kind of man would recuse himself? i think the point of recusing himself was because jeff sessions was part of the campaign that was being investigated. >> that's right. the president says sessions knew. he was part of the campaign. he knew that there was no collusion. and again, trump displays -- and i frankly don't know, ali, whether it's just an ignorance or disregard for conditioned legal processes in this country. there are standards for not participating in investigations where you either have an actual conflict or where your participation would provide the public with the appearance of impi impropriety. attorney jeff sessions followed those laws very well. i can tell you there are people who worked on those ethical issues and provided it to leaders like attorney general jeff sessions. it would have been appalling had he ignored the advice of
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professionals inside the department who told him he had to recuse in this situation. so the president's suggestion that sessions is not a real man, which i think he says during that interview, because he recused himself, demonstrates that the president is more interested in protecting himself than in protecting the country. because this investigation started as a look into russian interference with the election. and i always go back to this reminder that the president wanted to short-circuit that investigation, the investigation of russian influence over an american election. that's such a difficult thing for all of us still to wrap our minds around. >> noah, let's talk about the president's reference to how can you impeach a guy, and he made a reference to high crimes and misdemeanors. let's go to section 4 of article 2 of the united states constitution where it says the president, vice president and all civil officers of the united states shall be removed from office on impeachment and/or conviction of treason, bribery or other high crimes and misdemeanors. is the bribery part part of this
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at all? if they said it wasn't my funds, it was campaign funds, but he gave those funds to somebody with the aim of not having them disclose things that would affect the outcome of the election. does that come into play? >> it certainly could. i think there is evidence that would have to be developed to get you to that point. but we certainly have seen in the past in this country that things like obstruction of justice can factor into impeachment, which certainly could well end up being an issue here. other kinds of criminal offenses. it doesn't have to be a criminal offense to factor in, but other kinds of criminal offenses can. i don't think we're there yet. i think we have to see what corroborating evidence there is for what michael cohen has pled to, and we have to see how the facts develop on things like obstruction. but we're certainly -- we're certainly starting to see evidence of kinds of offenses
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that put you into that ballpark. >> thanks to all three of you. we have to continue to analyze this because it is that complicated. ken delanian. what markets actually worked for the stocks of bill clinton's impeachment? you're watching ali velshi live on msnbc.
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welcome back. the president and the markets and your money has us scratching our heads this morning. >> i don't know how you can impeach somebody who has done a great job. i tell you what, if i ever got impeached, i think the market would crash. i think everybody would be very poor. because without this thinking, you would see numbers that you wouldn't believe in reverse. >> okay, first of all, if you see numbers you wouldn't believe in reverse, then that would mean it would be numbers you would believe. but leaving that aside for a second, the looming impeachment and the uncertainty can have an effect on markets, there's no doubt about that. but for goodness sakes, would the market crash if the president were impeached? the impeachment of president bill clinton, in the fall of 1988, the market dropped. you can see that right there. it dropped almost 20% ahead of
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the report that was released by the investigatoinvestigator. but the report didn't contain anything groundbreaking the market settled shortly after the release. when the impeachment proceedings began, get this, the s&p 500, which is what we look at, actually began to climb, gaining 28% by the time the senate impeached bill clinton or acquitted bill clinton. they didn't impeach him. market participants would certainty, and in the wake of an impeachment, there is the marketability of selloff, but it doesn't necessarily guarantee a crash. john, the first thing we have to say when comparing things to past examples as it relates to markets in the economy is that the economy in 2018 is not the same as the economy was in 1998. there is actually a reason i didn't use the richard nixon example, because back in the early 1970s, the impact and the significance of the market are very different than they are now. the bottom line is there is no
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basis for president trump to say the markets would crash if he were impeached. >> if the president actually believes that, and he might because his self-absorption is so complete that he seems to think that everything revolves around him. if he actually believes that, he's completely out of touch with reality. we're in, ali, as you know, a nine-year bull market, most of which occurred under president obama. if you take the totality of president obama's eight years in office, the dow is up 149% during that time. the dow is up about 29% during trump's presidency is so far. it is true that in 2017, there was a market boost that i think in part was inspired by the actions he was taking on deregulation, in part of the expectation of tax cuts. and so the market continued to go up deep late into the recovery pretty sharply last year. however, it's basically flat
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this year because the actions the president is taking on trade are damaging to economic prospects in the future. and so, no, the economy would -- the markets would not crash if the president left. there might be a blip associated with the uncertainty, but the markets ultimately are going to respond to economic fundamentals, corporate profitability if trump left. >> by the way, the evidence of that is the last two years where there have been all sorts of things where traditionally you and me would have said, wow, that's going to affect the markets negatively. because as corporations continue to be profitable, markets continue to go up. that could change. we're well into a period of growth. we're ten years into a bull market, almost. that independently could turn around. >> well, in fact, the fact that the trump tax cuts frontloaded some economic activity but have
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increased budget deficits and the effects of that, the effects of the president's trade policies have a lot of forecasters upgrading the possibility of a recession by 2020. that is because of -- or connected with actions that the president has taken. so, yes, the economy is going to turn down at some point. we haven't repealed the business cycle. there will be a recession. but it's not going to be triggered by donald trump leaving office. you could make an argument that markets would feel a lot more calm and have certainty reduced if mike pence was president rather than donald trump. >> john harwood, thank you very much. joining me now is oscar goolsby, officer of advisers for president trump. let's stay on that for a second. that is a good threat the president is making to a lot of americans, saying, well, look, the one thing you've got going for you is these markets are going well. if i am impeached, it will tank
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the markets. what's your take? >> i think you actually missed the dynamic there. i don't think the president was engaged in an observation, i don't think he was making an economic forecast. i think he was making a threat. i think he was saying, hey, the economy is looking pretty good. it would be a shame if somebody were to burn it down, say somebody who had control over launching trade wars, changing regulations, applying tax rates to different groups. i think everybody should take a step back and ask yourself, do you honestly think that if they move to impeach donald trump, he's not going to try to burn it to the ground? i think that's what he said in that statement. >> so the president made sort of unprecedented comments the other day about disagreeing with the federal reserve in terms of increasing interest rates. a lot of presidents and presidential candidates have said in the rearview mirror, the fed didn't help me out by raising interest rates while i was in office. but the bottom line is the president implied that the fed is what's going to slow this economy down, and i want to get
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your comments on that, because in some ways that's the design. but, really, this increasing trade war with china, we've got new 25% tariffs on $16 billion worth of chinese goods. this is -- in your opinion, is this dangerous? >> there is nothing that could be more dangerous. look, i hope that we sort this out and every day that we don't have a trade war is a good day for the economy. so if we want to bluster, if we want to say we put 200 billion on you, we'll put 500 billion on you, that's fine if it can get someone to change their policies, that would be great. if you actually start a shooting trade war between the two biggest economies on earth, there will be a recession in both of those economies. and that's -- you see the president's own supporters going to win both privately and
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publicly saying, wait, put this off. do not do this now, it's not a good moment. i think it's very dangerous. >> what's the answer to this? donald trump hit on something interesting when he started the discussion on china being unfair. there are a lot of people who will argue that on certain levels, china is unfair to u.s. competition and does things that are not appropriate, that are not becoming of a country as big as china that's in the international trade universe. what would be the right way to handle this? >> look, what i will say is donald trump is not the first person to discover that china engages in taking other countries' intellectual property. we've tried a lot of different actions to change the behavior. the obama administration negotiated a trans-pacific partnership with all the major economies of asia to try to get
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them in a united way with allies confront chinese behavior. that's how you do it. that's how we have succeeded in changing their behavior in the past. what you don't do is you don't simultaneously declare trade wars on all your allies and then turn to china and say, ah, now we want you to change because it leads to what we're saying now. china goes to the people that are our allies and asks them, do you want to join us in filing grievances against the united states, and they do it. that's the mistake. >> austan, good to talk to you as always. the former chairman of the economic adviser to president trump. taking an unprecedented step using your tax dollars meant for books and learning to put weapons inside classrooms. first, a reminder that more than 15,000 students in 217 schools have experienced gun violence in school since the columbine
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shooting in 1999. you're watching velshi and ruhle live on msnbc.
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welcome back to "velshi and ruhle." the hurricane is lashing down on hawaii with torrential rains and already causing landslides. it will spark likely flash flooding with 30 inches of rain in some parts. the hurricane is expected to start tonight and continue into friday night. the president declared an emergency declaration this morning. an unprecedented mover. the "new york times" reports that education secretary betsy devos is debagt ting on letting school districts use federal funds to arm teachers. the education department's press secretary tells nbc news, quote, the department is constantly considering and evaluating policy issues, particularly issues related to school safety.
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the secretary nor the department issues opinions on hypothetical scenarios. and as the senior administration official says, no decision is imminent. joining me now is frank gut gutenberg, gun reform advocate, and partner of gun advocate jaime gutenberg. what do you think about teachers with guns and about the tax dollars being used to purchase them? >> you know, i think secretary devos suis using the murder of daughter to provide a return on investment for the 80 million gun investors to get this into office. but the money they spent to do this is not necessarily representing good policy, and this would be terrible policy. what betsy devos is saying she wants to do is remove money from a program that was designed to
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support additional education initiatives and mental health, the first thing people like betsy devos or the gun manufacturers or the nra do when there is a shooting like the one who killed my daughter. they say, look at mental health. now they want to take the money from mental health to put guns in schools arming teachers. i have no problem with armed security. >> right. >> but somebody tell me how it's going to work arming a teacher. where is the gun? is it on the person? because that's a problem. or is it locked away? and if it's locked away, how does the teacher get to it when somebody is walking around with an ar-15 like happened with my daughter? are they spending time fumbling nervously with a key to open a lock box, not protecting kids who need them in that critical minute? >> teachers have said many times, a, we're teachers. it's a different set of skills than a security officer or a police officer. b, our instinct is to protect
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our kids first, and c, because we're not well trained at these things, nor do we necessarily wish to be, you know, a teacher -- wii he've had teache say to us, what if it's a fellow citizen with a gun? we are going to think nine times before shooting that person because our instinct is to protect them. what if another student gets injured in the commission of trying to shoot someone? teachers are saying, there is a problem, but we're not equipped to be the people that shoot shooters. >> ali, everything they do is designed around the fact -- listen, she had this conference last week. she looked at parents from parkland and santa fe who were there and looked them in the eye and said, we're taking this seriously. but she would not allow the issue of guns to be discussed at this press conference. in fact, there were several speakers who wanted to mention guns, and they had to wipe it from their prepared remarks.
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so it couldn't be discussed last week as a factor, and it couldn't be discussed as a potential factor going forward, but now they're going to roll this out on us today? it's a terrible idea and they know it. and the problem is, if i don't deal honestly with the issue of guns, you're going to start throwing band-aids at a much bigger problem. so, okay, we do all this stuff now, let's arm teachers and everybody else. what do we now do with the thousands of kids who walk into and out of school every day? they'll now become the new sitting ducks if we don't deal honestly with the issue of guns. arming teachers is a terrible, terrible idea. >> what does it look like? when you say, let's deal honestly with guns, what does that look like to you? >> well, first things first. let me tell you, everyone who says we need to deal with mental health and we need to actually secure schools, i totally
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support and agree with them. the problem is there are those who want to stop the conversation there and i don't. we also need to deal with the issue of guns. it's not an either/or. look what we did in florida. we raised the access to guns to 21. you don't have kids with access to guns that they might otherwise do something with. how about red flag laws? they've already saved lives here in florida. they've been used a lot to remove weapons from someone who intends harm. they are working. how about background check systems that work without the loopholes and without the garbage? how about a real waiting period so that we give emotional factors a chance to dissipate before someone can run out and go buy a gun. there are so many things we can do that just make sense.
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>> so why spend our time on the ones that don't. >> and what this secretary of education, who should care about education, is doing, says let's pull money from educating to buy mill -- to buy all these weapons to throw at teachers who don't want them. listen, my daughter died in school. i still have a son in school. this so enrages me, and what this does is this makes for certain, this november election is critical. and everyone should go to this election making the issue of gun safety in this country the number one issue that they vote on. they should make it an orange wave in november, because it is the number one issue they'll be voting on. this administration is trying to -- while trump throws out a new tweet every hour, i call it the trump dog biscuit, they are doing real policy things that are impacting people, and not in a positive way. >> fred, thanks again for being with us.
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thanks for all the strong work you're doing in the memory of your beautiful daughter. she would be very, very proud of the fact that you and all the others associated with the parkland community will not give this fight up so that other students may live. frank, good to see you again. >> thank you. have a great day. thank you. for the first time as president donald trump is tweeting about africa, he jumped into a racially charged debate underway in south africa and took sides with white farmers. here is how the president is inspiring white nationalists. you're watching "velshi and ruhle" on msnbc. now after booking your flight, you unlock discounts on select hotels right until the day you leave. ‚ô™ add-on advantage. discounted hotel rates when you add on to your trip. only when you book with expedia.
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. president trump tweeted the word africa for the first time last night. he's obviously spoken about africa before in reference to s countries. the president was hitting back on efforts by soit aftuth afric ruling parties allowing the government to redistribute land without compensation. it's part of racial inequality that existed for a quarter century after the end of apartheid. >> the president of south africa has begun seizing land from his own citizens without compensation because they are the wrong skin color. that is literally the definition of racism. it's totally okay for south africa to steal property for racist reasons because they are, quote, a strong democracy.
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>> after watching that segment, the president tweeted that he's asking his secretary of state to, quote, closely study the south africa land and farm seizures and the large-scale killing of farmers. south africa's government slammed the president in response, tweeting, south africa totally rejects this narrow perception which only seeks to divide our nation and remind us of our colonial past. i want to bring in malcolm naz who worked in public relations in africa. malcolm, this is a nuance issue. what is the actual problem in south africa. >> the actual problem in south africa is an enormous, almost 40%, unemployment rate of the majority of the people in south africa who are the south african blacks. as you know, up until the apartheid, the nation was divided into three classes of people. whites, who are about 80% of the population, coloreds, who are
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about 10% which is -- >> mixed race. >> -- indian subcontinent, people like that, mixed race. and the ethnic population which is the majority there, the blacks of south africa. they have this enormous unemployment rate, as many as 20 million out of 55 million people that are unemployed or living on basic subsistence in south africa. so, really, it's -- crime in south africa is almost exclusively the domain of the poor and unemployed in that country. >> let's go over some of the responses on twitter to the president's tweet. laura lumer says, before we get involved in south africa, i hope the president realizes we have our own battle in america. jihadis are running for office. south africa serves as a warning of european heritage all over the world. if we lose control of our country, things will go poorly for us.
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and the voters -- you know, these are people who the president is kocounting on to sy in his base so it works for him to bring up this idea of south africa, warning people it could happen to us. i think this is part of the context you bring up. >> south africa is not america. its history is very, very different from america. it's got a very long history under apartheid and in the quarter century since of not figuring out how to redistribute wealth and make the majority prosperous. >> right, you're absolutely right. and you have to understand something. just up until 1994 when apartheid ended, that three-tiered system of which some people were less than humans and the rest -- the whites were the majority moved the government. 95% of the land was in the hands of 8% of the people. >> yep. >> and so the other tens of millions of people had absolutely no opportunity even
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to be success sbsistence farmer certain extent. fortunately they had a good, peaceful transition when i was there in capetown which was full of diversity despite the fact there was a very high crime rate there. this nation is a nation of transition. for the president to jump into this without any understanding of the situation, without understanding even the dynamics that are on the ground, he essentially pushed, and not even all right. there was a south african neo-nazi movement there which pushes this white genocide farmer attack meme. they've had 50 farmers killed in the last year. when you consider the size of the country out of 55 million people, we don't even know if they were all white farmers. these were deaths on farms where most people work. so the president has really just jumped right into the middle of a white supremacist meme and has tried to use that as some sort of step stone to inform the
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american public of something that none of us can understand. certainly the people at the cia, africa desk and state department must be pulling their hair out right now. >> malcolm, good to talk to you as always. we're 75 days to the midterm elections. up next, how president trump admitted criminal activity will help or hurt the midterm elections and supreme court nominee brett kavanaugh.
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president donald trump gives himself an a-plus. it's not the first time he's done it, by the way. >> what grade do you give yourself so far? >> so i give myself an a-plus. i don't think any president has ever done what i've done. i give myself an a-plus. in texas and in florida we get an a-plus. i'll tell you, i think we've done just as good in puerto rico. i would give myself an a-plus. i did it despite the fact that i have a phony cloud over my head
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that doesn't exist. >> rick, do you give him an a-plus? >> the best i'll give him, ali, is a participation trophy. donald trump is a great self promoter but there is a level of self-diluti self-delusion from this guy that defies comedy, even. >> let's talk about the problem with that, though. if we're not able to be in the least self-critical, this is a problem. the world is closing in on donald trump on a million fronts right now, which we've been covering the last few weeks. at some point there might be some redemption in being able to say, all right, i get it, i don't surround myself with the best people, yeah, i did say that, yeah, that was really bad, i shouldn't have done that. but the inability of him to do any of that stuff and then move straight into threats and criticism really does sort of harden the opposition to the president in that this guy can't be trusted with important things because he sort of lies about
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everything and doesn't actually understand where he's getting things wrong. >> sure. look, introspection is not donald trump's strong point. and unfortunately when you're the president the united states, you need to be able to look at the broader picture beyond your self-interest, your own ego, your own needs, and make judgments about your leadership. and if you think you've only gotten gold stars and only gotten a-pluses, you're not going to change anything. i think there are a majority of americans who are certainly concerned about donald trump's leadership on a whole variety of fronts. yes, the folks that support him think he can do no wrong. but the rest of america is worried that this is a guy who is not terribly stable. look, waking up in the middle of the night to tweet in all caps is not a sign of confident leadership. it's a sign of a terrified old man who feels the walls closing in. this is a guy who -- like i said, there's no introspection here and i wouldn't expect any to come.
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he's basically a bluffer and he'll try to double down on this "i'm perfect and the rest of you are lying" theory in regards to the cases. >> your book is called "everything trump touches dies." we're hoping the "everything" is not america. but the republican party, a party of which you have been a member, we are seeing some republicans, very, very few, congressman tom cole told "the new york times" that where there's smoke, there's a lot of smoke, there may well be a fire. but generally speaking we're not seeing republicans break from donald trump in the way that at around this time into the nixon administration when watergate was breaking, we started to see republicans move away because nixon was becoming an albatross. there's something about the politics here that's different. >> sure. look, the future of the republican party is a big gamble right now. it's become this party of trump and it's got a self-reinforcing media silo. it's got the fox news side and
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the breitbart and the online cheer sections for trump that now sort of terrify rank and file republicans from saying anything about this guy. they're afraid of his social media power. so you end up in a situation where the party has become subsumed by trump's fortunes, weath whether they rise or fall. it's a terrible bet, because i think my theory plays out constantly and consistently. i mean, just -- paul manafort and michael cohen on paper should now be masters of the universe but instead they're both admitted if or convicted felons. >> rick, can you ever get your party back? >> it's going to take a shock, it's going to take some serious work and introspection on the part of leaders who collapsed in front of trump because they thought this nationalist populism and statism will be the wave of the future. it's a going to be a tough ride. >> rick wilson is the author of
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"everything trump touches dies." congressman elijah cummings joins andrea mitchell next. you're watching "velshi & ruhle" live on msnbc. little things can be a big deal. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not a cream. it's a pill that treats moderate to severe plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable. don't use if you're allergic to otezla . it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. otezla is associated with... increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have  a history of depression or suicidal thoughts,... ...or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. tell your doctor about your medicines and if you're pregnant or planning to be. otezla. show more of you.
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america. born in 1908 in new york state, she was the first black woman to graduate from yale law school,meschool, the first to join the new york city bar. she was sworn in as a judge in 1939 when just 31 years old. she served in family court for 40 years and advocated for civil rights for children and for education. she served on boards for the naacp, national urban league, and child welfare league. bolin didn't stop serving when she retired at age 70. she volunteered as a reading instructor in public schools. she died in 2007 at the age of 98. if you have a monumental american, tweet us @velshiruhle. thank you for watching. i'm ali velshi. i'll see you back at 3:00 eastern. right now i have the pleasure of introducing andrea mitchell
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right here in studio for reporters. -- for "andrea mitchell reports." >> thank you, ali. and they weren't taken out of campaign finance. that's a big thing. that's a much bigger thing. did they come out of the campaign. they didn't come out of the campaign. they came from me. >> pardon the interruption. the president keeps lavishing praise on paul manafort, just convicted on tax and bank fraud charges. is the president considering a pardon? >> i have great respect for what he's done in terms of what he's gone through. >> umm, it's, uh, certainly premature to be talking about that. and i think it would be a mistake. and the "i" word. are democrats now eyeing impeachment if they win the house? despite the president's unusual warning today. >> i don't know how you can


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