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tv   MSNBC Live With Stephanie Ruhle  MSNBC  November 2, 2018 6:00am-7:00am PDT

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kill at the border. that's the definition of political incompetence. >> talking about shooting to kill little kids that are throwing rocks at soldiers. that's never going to happen because the troops are never going to be sent down there because it's all a big lie. all right, on that happy news, have a great weekend, everybody. let's pass it on to stephanie ruhle. stephanie will be taking you through the next couple hours. stephanie. >> i don't know, that picture of donny deutsch has sent me reeling. has he just debtdicated the las 20 years to laser hair removal? it is stunning. the final four. not hoops. we're in the homestretch before the election. while the president is trying to make it all about him, our road warriors are spread out across the country, finding the local issues and voter groups poised to make a national impact. but the bully pulpit, that's
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what the president is all about, holding the line on his border plan. >> at this very moment, large well-organized caravans of migrants are marching toward our southern border. some people call it an invasion. it's like an invasion. >> you call it an invasion. and what does he expect the troops stationed at the border to actually do? >> they want to throw rocks -- our military fights back. when they throw being rorocks, say consider it a rifle. >> here's something he should talk about, jobs, jobs, jobs. unemployment staying at a 50, that's five-zero, year low. how about this for draining the swamp. the interior secretary could be in trouble. just one of the ethics investigations into ryan zinke has now been referred to the department of justice. we have got a lot to cover.
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but you know this morning we've got to start with the race to the finish line. just four days before the highly anticipated midterm elections, this is a positive. more than 24 million people have already cast their ballots. our great team of road warriors this morning is on the races and the voters that are going to decide this election. let's head straight to texas. that is where senator cruz and candidate o'rourke are america in neck in the polls. nbc's garrett haake is in ft. wor worth, texas. we'll get the first chance to see what ted cruz is up to. >> ted cruz is campaigning around the dallas-ft. worth metroplex. he'll be on the other side of the city. then heading down to the college station area, home of texas a&m. might find some younger conservative voters down there.
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running essentially a two-prong campaign after last couple of weeks up here. trying to disqualify beto o'rourke, saying he is too liberal for texas. and something that might be surprising to folks who remember the republican primary cam pachb 2016. cruz is running on his good relationship with donald trump and saying he can work with the trump administration, help get texas' economy booming. help get rid of regulations, which is a big issue. we expect them to make those two points. working with the republican president today and saying beto o'rourke is too liberal to do the same. >> let's go with beto o'rourke. his opponent has been out not talking trump. he has had a specific message to voters. what is it? >> yes, o'rourke never talks about the president. i don't think i've heard him mention ted cruz's name on the stum. yesterday, we were down closer to the border. 1 million voters in the rio grande valley. where the immigration issue
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plays differently. we heard o'rourke talk about the idea that the border communities here don't want walls and they certainly don't want troops. they want commerce. the cultural connection that happens. he pushed back pretty hard against the kind of language, the receiptry, the president's been using. >> the lowest levels on the u.s./mexican border since 1971. we're seeing people who are not being am ppprehended, they're turning themselvturn ing themselves in. people trying to lawfully claim asylum. with fear and paranoia. that's not us. that's not our country. if the president doesn't get it the people of texas do. >> today is the last day voters in texas can cast their ballots early.
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>> all right, now i have to head to california, where in orange county, some are calling them super moms, have become a key voting bloc. some of those women were not even politically active before the 2016 election. msnbc's senior correspondent chris jansing is in dana point. a lot who were members of the republican party, now they've gone independent. >> they've gone from frustrated. it's two issues. one is they don't recognize these dangerous people that the president describes, these migrants. these are their neighbors. these are their co-workers. the other is an environment in a place where they've had drought, water restrictions, they do not have any patience for anybody who is a climate denier. that include as a 30-year
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incumbent, dana rorbacker here. i talked to two lifelong republicans about why they decided to switch. >> two years ago, when i was 82, i finally decided my party -- party has just left me is what it amounts to. i just stayed the same but the party has left me. i didn't stay totally the same. i did stay pretty much the same. i'm staill a fiscal conservativ but i just don't think this party reflects what i feel these days. >> are you with mom on that one? >> i'm with mom on that one. i'm more socially in the middle. this party is no longer the party it was. i was a registered republican for most of my life. i'm now an independent for the last couple of years. part of that is the people that populate the republican party. i mean, i cannot tolerate the behaviors of the guy at the top. he is so disrespectful to women and is so disrespectful of
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things like since and the democratic processes in the country, disrespectful of the media. this is not what this country is about. >> these educated suburban moms are also realists. they know that democrats can't win just with democratic votes. republicans are still outregistering them here. but here's the thing that's fascinating to watch. these women who have run businesses, who have had successful careers, even though they've never been politically active before, they're taking all those same skills that have made them successful and putting them into the political sphere. so they're feeling optimist fick not complete lly assured that i these four counties that have been republican for virtually ever. that they have a real fighting chance this year, stephanie. >> well, we'll see. let's head straight to arizona. nationwide, young voters are
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making all the difference this year when compared to 2014, voetsers under the age of 30 are outpacing every other group. that say huge positive in terms of democracy. nbc's gaudy schwartz joins me live from phoenix. you've been talking to young voters. one of them is an organizer of a huge walkout planned for election day, designed to get young people to vote. tell us about it. >> yes, you know how they say young people usually don't turn out to the polls? this year could be drastically different. here's why. this is this movement, it's basically asking people to come out on election day, schools to come out on election day and students to walk out of class. not just students in high schools but students at universities and colleges all around the country. this is really geared not just at voters but it's geared at kids.
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reminding people who they are voting for. we just saw a tweet from snoop dogg backing this to his 17 million voters. we've also seen other tweets. alyssa milano tweeted this as well. so far it's expected to be in 500 schools and we caught up with the organizer. >> we want to make sure there are no obstacles in getting young people to the polls. >> what's the plan? >> so walk out to vote, about25a youth organizations have come together to ask high school and college students to walk out and march to the polls and cheer each other on. on november 6, students from across the country at 10:00 a.m. local time will be leaving their classes and marching to the polls to cast their ballots. >> katie says all of this is aimed at bringing the youth together. this is not just a one issue.
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it's not just black lives matter or possibly the parkland movement. they say they look at all issues as how they're going to affect the future. this is the future coalition of about 20 different organizations all coming together on election day. a day they say should be a national holiday. they are going to try to make a national holiday, an impromptu national holiday, if you will. they'll show up to the polls and try to remind people who they are voting for. >> it is awesome to see all those young people impassioned and engaged. let's go to iowa where all eyes are on the house race. you know this guy. he's finding himself in a very tight race. nbc's vaughn hillyard joins me now from a corn and soybean farm. this is a rural area. largely very conservative. it's amazing a guy like steve king who has been in office for as long as he has is actually losing some big donorings.
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>> stephanie, for republicans, this is not the district we should be standing in just four days out. this is a district donald trump won. in just two years, steve king himself won it by 22%. you look at steve king's comments. he's tweeted out that diversity is not our strength, retweeted white supremacist views. he's facing quite a modest 38-year-old democratic who has been going around the district in an rv. also here, the constituents in this district, this is a very rural district here. i want to bring in one farmer here. you voted for steve king in the past. >> yes, i have. >> you consider yourself conservative? >> probably more conservative than liberal. >> how will you vote? >> probably steve king. however, i still have j.d. in my mind. i haven't pulled the plug yet.
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>> what is making you pause? what is making you think about this? because we've been talking over the course of the week and you've been waffling back and forth. >> i guess the last few day, some of the things he said, the inabilities for him to get out and talk to the farmers and give us his views. >> you have 1,500 acres of corn and soybeans. we were talking about the soybean market. you said last week you finished harvesting. before the tarriiffs went into place. are you going to make a profit this year? >> right now, probably not. we'll have to use equities from the previous years to make things, cash flow. >> for steve king here, it's not only the comments, but it's also the agricultural issue and the impact the trade tariffs will have on people like laverne here. >> thank you to all of our road
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warriors doing exactly what we need most, to talk to real voters around the country. i want to bring in my badpanel. a.b. stoddard. my dear friends brett stevens. all right, a.b., we are four days out. what do you make of these real close races? the fact that cruz and o'rourke are this tight, do you think there's a real race here? >> oh, in texas, that's really hard to say. i mean, the texas electorate is republican. for beto o'rourke to win, he needs new and lapsed voters. so far, he has not been showing better numbers or even at par with hillary clinton among latinos in texas. i have no idea how he wins this race without them. so unless there's a surprise in store, that's his hurdle. nationwide, i'm debby downer on the democrats. poll rls are not votes. we learned that in 2016. all the excitement is there.
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all the head winds for republicans is there. this is the first i've heard of that kind of level of excitement and commitment. and intent from young people. if that is going to be true, in large number enough numbers, it is a blue wave. typically in midterms as president obama learned in 2010 and 2014, the democratic coalition doesn't turn out. the voters are older. they're more conservative. they're whiter. they're more affluent. the only hope i think the democrats really have is the college educated white woman. some of them former republicans who are furious. they're better, more frequent committed voters. this whole coalition needs to turn out. that would be a change. >> what do you think, when look at this election, we keep saying, well, donald trump isn't running. but he's had an extraordinary media blitz. you see him everywhere. while we could say his obsession with the caravan makes no sense, it makes great sense to his base. and you look at the job numbers
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today. that makes more sense to wealthy people. that two-pronged approach could be a winner for him. >> i think the story of the 2018 midterms is maybe -- could be wrong, i hope i'm wrong, but it may be how did the democrats blow this? first of all, it's almost always the case in midterm elections, particularly among unpopular incumbent presidents who are at least nine points under water in terms of their personal approval rating. it's almost always the case that the opposition party picks up votes. that's what the republicans did in 2010. that's what the democrats did in 2006. republicans in 1994. this is an historic trend. how is it that the democrats have managed to blow what ought to be a cakewalk for them against an unpopular incumbent when they could have been hitting all kinds of issues about the state of the world, the caliber of the presidency. protectionism which is hitting
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farmers and places where democrats could be keeping seats like indiana and north dakota. it's unbelievable they're not doing better. >> can i just ask one more dumb question? why wouldn't beto o'rourke have enthused more latinos and gotten them out to vote? you would think in the state of texas, that would be a no brainer. >> well, we might be surprised. normally, you do have these indications of new registration. we were looking for those in 2016. new registration of trump voters. it turned out many of them were lapsed voters. they have just not voted in many cycles. many hillary voters stayed home. they were protesting in the street and throwing garbage on november 10th. the problem is that beto has to really -- i mean, i know he's been to every single county. he has $70 million. he has all the excitement. especially out of state. but if he -- >> that doesn't get you a vote. >> if he wins, we will find out
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many ted cruz voters weren't interested. that is very well the case. republicans just can't pull the lea lever for him. >> thank you. we have to leave that there but i'm not letting you two leave. brett, a.b. two of my favorites on this important day. why is it so important? because we're in the homestretch of the most hotly contested midterm elections ever so you better join me tomorrow night, with yours truly, prime time, 8:00 p.m. eastern. part of msnbc's full saturday lineup, featuring my colleagues joy reid, ari melber. a really strong jobs report, 250,000 jobs added in october and wages, wages have gone up. we're going to break that down. yeah, this is bob barnett in chicago. (john foley) i was there when bob barnett made the first commercial wireless phone call. we were both working on that first network that would eventually become verizon's. that call opened the door to the billions of mobile calls that we've all made since.
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it is jobs friday. the last one before the midterms. in october, employers added 250,000 jobs. keeping the unemployment rate at 3.7%. the report comes as stock futures point up after bloomberg reported the president has asked officials to start drafting a potential trade deal with china. joining me now, cnbc contributor, chief economic correspondent for politico and host of politico's money podcast, ben white. first, the jobs report. because this is a positive, positive number. says a lot of good things about our economy and the fact that wages are up, that's good news
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too. >> yes, 3%, year over year. we finally cracked that level which is really great for workers. seeing pay increases. the overall number is very good. i think we probably got some payback this month from last month. i don't know if it's 250 good but it's over 250,000, which is very good. >> but it also means in this fight donald trump has been having with his own fed chair, j. powell, powell is indicated here. with job numbers like this, how can you possibly not raise interest rates? that is 100% the right thing to do. >> yes, absolutely. powell is right, trump is wrong. if you've got joblessness as low as it is. wage growth going over 3%. the felt has absolutely no choice but to slowly and methodically raise interest rates to avoid overheating. if they were to not raise rates, they risk getting behind inflation, then we'd have, you know, a series of rapid rate increases that would kill the
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economy. powell right, trump wrong, surprise, surprise. >> just moments ago, said bloomberg is reporting that trump is looking for a trade deal to be penned with china and of course if the market starts to believe that, that's good news. and i'm now reading from reuters, u.s. official say report that trump is seeking a trade deal, not true. miller tayback says the odds we get an agreement with china in the near term are close to zero. however, p.t. barnum was right, that is a sucker born every minute. if you talk to any actual credible economist, anyone who's been following this, this is garbage that the president is putting out there four days before the midterms. we are nowhere near a trade deal with china. >> no. what we've wanted are these incredibly large structural changes from the chinese on not stealing our intellectual property. we're nowhere near any of that. but president trump loves to cheer lead the stock market. it just came off its worst
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october in 20 years. did not want to see headlines like that. so lo and behold what do we get? the steel's imminented an sto a prices go up. >> it is amazing to me, though, when you think about the third quarter, we have rising unemployment. rising wages. but we also have rising prices. we also have flat stocks. could that be the reason that the economy is not a central focus for the president? i could look at ivanka trump's tweets all day long. but the president is talking about a caravan and shooting people who are throwing rocks. >> he's obviously made the choice that what motivates his base is talk about immigration. this nonexistence invasion at the border. shooting people that throw rocks. building tent cities. look, to get republicans to the
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polls, i need to say this kind of stuff and not focus on the economy. i think he's partially right. >> if the economy, at least in part, a win for him -- >> it's a huge win for him. >> a 50 year low in unemployment. >> he should be talking more about it. he should be talking about it all the time. but i think the caveat to that is this economy is pretty similar to what it's been for last several years and obama's economy. if you look at charts on the drop of the unemployment rate, they're very similar for the last ten years, since the end of the great recession. so people are not going gangbusters. there's a risk in talking about something that we've had for a while. but he would be better served, if you talk more about the economy, less about this crazy immigration stuff. >> remember, that bifurcated economy led to the rise of the trump voter. many, many people do not own stocks. even if they've seen slight wage
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increases, it's still not enough to support their families. just think about that. the president just mentioned the idea of a middle class tax cut. please find me a republican or an economist who can tell us how we're going to pay for it. a huge tax cut to corporations. there's no space left to give it to the middle class. ben, thank you so much. up next, president trump held what was touted as a major policy speech at the white house yesterday. it was about the caravan. unfortunately, there was no policy. we're going to share what we learned. before we go, we told you yesterday oprah winfrey was campaigning. she literally went knocking on doors. we got to show you how some people reacted. pretty much exactly how you think they would. >> hi. >> hi. oh, my god. >> hi, denise. >> hi, oprah. >> how are you? >> i'm wonderful, how are you? >> good. surprise, surprise. >> i am shocked. ♪ at last,
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recently, more than $20 million has been spent in the race for superintendent of public instruction to attack my friend tony thurmond's record. well, i've worked with tony, and no one is more qualified to lead our state's schools. that's why tony thurmond is the only candidate endorsed by classroom teachers and the california democratic party. because tony will stand up to the donald trump-betsy devos agenda and has always protected our local public schools. join me in voting for tony thurmond. let's put our kids first. welcome back. i'm stephanie ruhle. one of the races we are watching on tuesday but might not have an answer on until the end of the
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month is in the state of mississippi. there's a special three-way election being held to replace retired u.s. senator cochran who resigned earlier this year due to health reasons. no clear front-runner. it could be headed for a runoff. let's go straight to nbc's rehema ellis who is with candidate mike espy. >> we're actually at the broad street baking company. this is the place to come for that. you are running and it could be historical for you if you manage to win the senate seat. you'd be the first black man to end up in the senate since reconstruction. >> yes. >> how heavy is that weighing on you? >> well, that does not weigh on me at all. because, rehema, i'm really running to do something and not be something. i've been that before. i was the first black
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congressman since the civil war. so that was historic. what i set my sights on would be -- >> what is it that you want to do? you said you want to do something rather than be something. >> number one, health care. that's without a doubt. in mississippi, we have really, really never health care outcomes. i think that more than any other state in the nation, we have rural hospitals closing. we've had hospitals that have announced bankruptcy. that is really because our leadership in this state did not accept the medicaid money that was offered. then there's always that pre-existing condition situation, which i would have voted for had i been a senator three weeks ago. i know you cover education. mississippi has really negative education outlook. what we want to do is say the first two years of college is free. we can end this brain drain. and end student debt. >> how are you going to convince voters to vote for you? you're in a special election
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this time. for example, there's three of you at the top. >> yes. >> but this is a very difficult election you're in. how are you going to get more votes? >> you know, it's an uphill climb. i'm not that -- the thing is, i've done it before. in 1986, i've won with 85% of the black vote and 11% of the white vote. in 1992, i had 95% of the black vote and 40% of the white vote and it's because of service. >> he's almost lost his voice because he's been campaigning all over the state. thank you very much. >> thank you, rehema ellis. as we speak, u.s. troops have begun arriving on the southern border adding to a military force that would likely overwhelm the group slowly making their way north through mexico. but the president, he is not stopping with a show of force. he is vowing to sign executive orders designed specifically to keep would be immigrants out of the united states, promising to change the way the government
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decides who should come in. >> my administration is finalizing a plan to end the rampant abuse of our asylum system. it's abused. under this plan, the illegal aliens will no longer get a free pass into our country by lodging meritless claims in seeking asylum. instead, migrants seeking asylum will have to present themselves lawfully at a port of entry. >> all right. i want to bring in nbc's hans nichols at the white house. hans, walk us through, is this something the president, a, has the power to do, and b, yesterday, lots of net works televised it. the policy speech the president was set to give. >> well, the policy is they're going to be putting out this executive order that's going to try to change asylum applications. >> that's not a policy announcement. >> that is a tactical move to achieve a policy gold that this
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president wants and that is to seal the border and force migrants to come through the ports of entry. the issue of whether or not it's legal is a question of whether or not you believe in international law. it's clear from this administration they don't believe international law has weight. treaty obligations would require the united states to honor those international commitments and allow anyone who sets foot in the united states to claim asylum. sealing off the border isn't necessarily controversial and asking people to come through points of entry also isn't controversial. what's controversial is trying to use administrative tricks to prevent those migrants from making asylum applications. under international law, if they make that entry, as they come in through a point of entry, make that application, they should be able to go ahead and file that claim. that's very clear. stephanie, it's also clear this white house doesn't believe in international law. i think when we looked an yesterday's comments, the most
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significant is appearing to authorize lethal force for a caravan that may be throwing rocks. and getting hit with a bullet. realistically, that is not true. you hear that throughout the military. you saw strong pushback from former military officers. you had the former chairman of joint chiefs of staff. let me read you what he said. a waistful deployment of overstretched soldiers and marines would be made much worse if they used force disproportional to the threat they face. the rhetoric from the white house, specifically from the president, hasn't matched the actual planning taking place at the pentagon, at the pentagon they insist that these troops, whether it's 7,000, 8,000, how high it goes. that they will be here in a supportive role. they won't be arresting anyone. yes, some of them will be armed but they'll be following long-standing rules of engagement. what the white house keeps
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saying and the president himself is that they'll be there preventing this caravan from coming in and they'll be building tents for migrants. that's an entirely different thing. somewhere along the line, these two need to harmonize. >> here's the issue, we don't know the truth. remember, this is donald trump's pentagon. my panel back with me. a.b. stoddard and brett stevens. help me understand this, brett. is the goal to punish all people for trying to come here or is it to actually weed out bad actors from good ones? >> no, i mean, the goal is twofold. the best possible reading is this is the ugliest conceivable form of deterrence against other migrants traveling in caravans. traveling in caravans for their own safety, not for the sake of invading the united states. so the good -- the more positive gloss is a show of force deters future migrants from coming. the reality, as i think you and
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i know, is this is purely for domestic political consumption and it's being done in the ugliest way in which the commander in chief is suggesting a shoot to kill policy against civilians which violates basic norms that the pentagon and american soldiers have observed for decades. you have a president essentially suggesting unlawful orders to his own troops. i think it's a low moment in american history. >> i want to share a little bit more about what the president said. take a listen. >> once i arrived, the democrat party's vision is to offer them free health care, free welfare, free education and even the right to vote. you and the hard-working taxpayers of our country will be asked to pick up the entire tab. >> okay, let's stay on this. because there are plenty of people out there who would say i don't think the people in the
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migrant caravan are dang russiarussia dangerous. they're not here to hurt us. but there are people worried about the financial impact. is that a fair fear? >> yes, president obama -- i mean, president trump is speaking to everyone on the right fringe to stoke fear about immigration. >> there's people not on the right fringe, there's people in the middle who say i don't want -- >> -- an argument that we're at capacity, the system cannot absorb this anymore, we don't have -- we have to built tent cities, we can't afford it. this is, you know, we saw the migrant -- the summer of two201e saw this, we saw this summesumm and this is an important message to people who say i don't want to separate families, i don't want to shoot people, i don't want to be cruel, i don't even want to deploy the military for hundreds of millions of dollars but at the same time, we have to seal the border because we can't
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absorb this. >> this is pure demagoguery. you talk to employers across a range of industries and the first thing they'll tell you is the problem is labor shortages at the lower end of the skill set. you go through the united states, places like nebraska and kansas, what's the biggest problem? counties emptying out. terrible demographics. go to a place like storm lake, iowa, in the northwest corner of the state. that's a town that has been made new once again, thanks to the arrival of immigrants. so the suggestion -- yes, sure, there are criminals among immigrants. always have been. they are going to cost the system in some ways. that's always been true. but human beings are also assets. they're human capital. they are dreamers. they're doers. everyone here has some grandfather who arrived in a similar way. >> i'm with you. i'm trying to get a sense of who president trump is playing to besides his base. is there any fact around this
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idea they're going to overrun our schools and our hospitals? because we talk so much about that suburban voter. when president trump says this and does this, they're come hearing and they're going to fill our schools and our hospitals, does that play to anyone outside the fringe? >> if he had stuck with that message, more moderate measured message that was kind and humane that said we simply can no longer absorb this. that would resonate with a lot more people. the problem for republican candidates in the last four days is that they are facing precipitous sort of drop in the polls in some places because of the violence, the domestic violence terrorism here last week. trump's response to it and this kind of doom and gloom dark seenphobseen f zenophobic rhetoric. it is really to much to counter with the invasion, with birth
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right citizenship being revoked, all this stuff about shoot to kill. if lost in there is a message that would appeal to the middle, it's been overpowered by the fact the president is trying to scare the pants off everyone and it's making things much harder. >> the president said we have to detain people that are crowding the border. no parole, no bond. here's the reasoning. >> the overwhelming majority of claims are rejected by the courts but by that time, the alien is usually long since disappeared into our country. so they never get to see the judge. they never get to have a ruling. they don't care because they're in the country and nobody knows where they are. >> the alien. that makes a scary statement. here's the thing. let's actually look at the data. the data collected says 86% of individuals who are released from detention did come to court for their hearing. >> right, because what they
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really want to do is be in this country and it's worth noting that the incarceration rate of even undocumented immigrants is anywhere between half and a quarter of the incarceration rate of americans. they're not coming here to be criminals. they're coming here to be part of the country. >> but the majority of the country is not at the border. when the president put forth lies just like that, the aliens get released and they never come back to court, does a majority of america believe that nonsense? >> what i'm wondering is whether this lost minute -- i give tricks where each day he's ratcheting up the intensity. the troops are going to go up to 15,000. it would be 16,000. the birth right citizenship, shoot to kill orders, whatever it is he's trying to add a new layer every eight hours. if you're a trump vote they're had a fear, you know, built and built by president trump these last few weeks about the caravan, do you feel assuaged?
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is this i alone can fix it president, basically has he convinced you, the military, sealing the border. has he convinced you? birth right citizenship is going to end. and that executive order is real. has he convinced you asylum will be made so very few people can claim it. are you going to vote for congressman snodgrass? i don't know if this is effective. >> remember, his big bad zero tolerance policy was inhumane and he had to reverse it. that wall he said mexico was going to pay for, mexico isn't willing to pay for it and his own republican government won't support it. up next, an ethics investigation into interior secretary ryan zinke. reportedly it's getting referred to the justice department to see if a criminal investigation is warranted. ♪
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let's do the thing that you do. let's clear a path. let's put down roots. let's build something. let's do the thing that you do. let's do the thing that changes the shape of everything... that pushes us forward and keeps us going. let's do the work. today, money, power, politics, another member of president trump's cabinet has come under scrutiny from the justice department. this time, it's the interior secretary ryan zinke. the department of justice is looking into allegations of misconduct concerning zinke's apparent involvement in a land development deal in white fish, montana, backed by the chairman of halliburton. while zinke is denying he did
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anything wrong, the president is not taking it lightly. he's told aides he was afraid zinke has broken rules, although he's not indicated whether it's going to cost him his job. ben, walk us through that. "washington post" reports, quote, zinke stepped down as the foundation's president after joining trump's cabinet and his wife took over in that capacity. but records show the interior secretary continued to discuss the project. so walk us through -- first of all, if you step down from a project and give it to your wife, you didn't really step down. >> no, and i should say, you know, politico first reported on this land deal in montana a while ago and now the investigations have increased. i think what's really interesting about this is the trump administration, senior officials are making it clear that they're really concerned about this. it seemed to me that story was a signal to zinke that, you know, you're in some hot water here and maybe put some pressure on him to step aside before this thing gets really bad. but it's clear that, you know,
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the justice department is going to look at what contact zinke had with the chair of halliburton, whether interior did anything to benefit halliburton in return return for positive, you know, implications for this land deal. whether he was enriching himself using his office, that's the big question here. generally trump has stood behind his cabinet officials when they came under this scrutiny. this is a very different message. >> well, he did initially. scott pruitt doesn't have his job anymore. tom price doesn't have his job anymore. president trump could have learned his lesson. president trump could have said, yes, maybe i chose this guy and maybe he isn't so hot. >> right. generally people like pruitt are ousted after ages and ages of bad headlines and they become such an intolerable headache, they have to go.
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that hasn't happened with zinke. and it's not clear that there's a quid pro quo. maybe there's something the white house hasn't seen and that has them ousted. he hasn't become an intoll probably headache yet. maybe there's something we don't know. >> well, we'll soon find out. long live the free press. coming up, "time" magazine explores how we can move past the hate we saw displayed in violence last week. ♪ ♪ ♪
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close-knit squirrel hill community. the new time magazine cover, and i urge you to pick it up, challenges the rest of the country to move beyond hate. we talk about it here, the illustration shows the tree of life covered by the american tag, with 13 stars on the
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ground, one where to the victims of the synagogue attack and two for the attack in the kroger store. eddie, you wrote in this issue that politicians cannot stop hate, we must change america ourselves. explain that. >> right. i mean, you know, politicians have been exploiting hate and fear, ever since politics have come into being. it's really left up to us to really imagine a different future for the country. what we see is the violence, stephanie. this violence is just simply an exaggerated suppression of what politicians have been doing for decades. so we have to imagine america differently. and that's going to require us to look at the ugliness of who we are, square in the face. >> hasn't it long been the case that in the face of tragedy, it is our leaders who lift us up?
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>> well, yes. but in this instance i think we can't look towards our leaders. donald trump makes jesse helms -- remember jesse helms in the race against harvey gant in 1990 and how ugly it is, or george h.w. bush with willie horton or ronald reagan seven miles outside philadelphia where people were killed? people have always engaged in dog whistles and racially coded speech. donald trump is just appealing explicitly to the ugliness. our leaders aren't going to do this. tone is not enough. that's just trying to put the genie back in the bottle. we have to imagine america differently. we have to be different if we're actually going to be open up the future to our children and our children's children. >> it's not just imagining it, we can be different every single day by opening our hearts and minds and caring about our neighbors, even those who don't share our views. i want to play a bit of what the
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president had to say in missouri last night. >> i will tell you, we have gotten tremendous numbers, tremendous numbers of republicans are going out to vote. now, we did have two maniacs stop our momentum that was incredible, because for seven days nobody talked about the elections. it stopped the tremendous momentum. more importantly, we have to take care of our people. and we don't care about momentum when it comes to a disgrace like just happened to our country. but it did nevertheless stop a certain momentum. and now the momentum is picking up. >> okay. so we lost 13 people in the most hideous way. there were at least 13 people who received bombs that fortunately did not detonate. can we really think that -- do you really believe we can rise up from the bottom locally when our own president is saying, those crazies were despicable but the real problem is it
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slowed my momentum going into the midterms? >> but you know, stephanie, i have to believe it. it's our only hope. donald trump is a narcissist. he's a narcissist whose moral capacity has been in so many ways blunted. you can't empathize with suffering outside of his own self, outside of his own concerns. we're our only hope. mass movements have changing this country. everyday, ordinary people have changed this country. and if we don't understand that we have the capacity, the power, right, to demand otherwise, then we might as well close of coffin ourselves. if american is going to be different, if we're going to achieve our country, if we're going to get off this hamster wheel where people can exploit our hatreds and fears, every single day we have to be decent, we have to be loving, we have to be caring, and we have to be
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willing to engage in a kind of self critical exception, so we can see the darkness in our own souls. if we don't do it, it's a wrap. >> amen to that, eddie glaude. that wraps us up this hour. i'm stephanie ruhle. i'll see you tomorrow night 8:00 p.m. for special election coverage. coming up right now, more news withny friend ha nmy friend ja . we're lining up for president trump's rally in the afternoon. the buzzword today, it's not necessarily republican or democrat, but persuadable. yep, there are people out there who have not totally made up their mind. we'll bring you our new polling about the tightest of senate races. plus how both parties are hoping to persuade those

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