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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  November 23, 2018 3:00am-4:00am PST

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off the to the races. >> after the midterm elections, democrats may be feeling the wind at their back. with president trump already campaigning for re-election, there's a host of democratic hopefuls raising money, visiting key states and honing their
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messages. the "new york times" reports that some wins and near losses have raised questions about whose vision of the democratic party will emerge victorious in 2020. and it raises questions about whether democrats can deliver a consistent message to voters. among the crew of possibly familiar contenders, a politico morning consult poll taken in the days following the midterm found joe biden as the early leader. 2016's runner.up, vermont senator bernie sanders came in second. but to underscore the desire for new faces, beto o'rourke, fresh off his loss in the texas senate race came in third. senators elizabeth warren of massachusetts, kamala harris in california, corey brook in new jersey followed closely behind.
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none of the other 14 possible candidates mentioned earned as much as 3%. none of these big name candidates declared the stump, but many seem to be previewing their own 2020 pitches. >> democrats choose hope over fear. democrats choose unity over division. >>ed whys were perceived to be radical and streamist ideas are now ideas supported by the vast majority of the american people. thank you, iowa. >> we are better than this. that's what we're fighting for. so let's think about it in the context of what's at stake. >> this is not a time to curl up.
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it is not a time to shut up. it is a time to get up, to rise up, to speak up. it is time for you not to wait for home, but to be the hope. >> it's our time to fight back. are you ready to fight back? >> joining us right now is heidi psbella, donna brazil is the former chair woman of the dnc and john brabender is a republican strategist. what do you think about now and how we look forward to november 2020. what does it look like to you in terms of the candidates right now? >> i'm excited, chris. this is my 11th presidential season. we're going to have the largest, most diverse group of candidates
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we've ever seen in a democratic party. yes, we will have a basket of elected officials. what really excites me is you're going to see new blood, new energy, and we won't have to count on count dracula to give us fresh blood for the democratic party. >> what do you make of this? we have the top line here, but basically, even the top line, even joe he biden who everybody knows who he is is getting 28%. is it 28? 26. this is diverse in terms of numbers. >> there would have been an unspoken rule for some of the others who practically announced their campaigns and wait on joe biden. but joe biden himself said don't do it. this will be a wide open field.
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there will be a aggressive pragmatic fight we know the between the candidates. they would need their own tough guy to go toe to toe -- >> who would that be -- >> like mark cuban or -- >> how about corey? i shouldn't say this, but i don't think anybody who yells ever wins. people say very interesting, but he's not the next -- bill clinton hardly ever yelled. who is the guy that is going to bloo the doors out? >> you have a 747 full of candidates coming in, right?
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the democratic party is very divided over who they want. undecided is almost as popular as the top candidate in there, joe biden who has universal name recognition. who is the candidate that gets in there and blows the doors off it? i thinkite t i think it's the candidate that knocks the door off. >> do you think he wired this that he would run even if he lost, that he was planning ahead? >> i don't know if he was planning ahead, but the best outcome for him to run as president was to lose by a small margin. >> john, the trump whisperer here. who is he rooting for? i get the feeling when he does things like elizabeth warren who people have mixed views about,
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some think she's a winner, some don't think so. trump keeps doing this nicknaming with her. >> i think he feels elizabeth warren won't play in places like rust belt states. i think he thinks bernie sanders would be a fine opponent. i think he thinks less that joe biden would be. >> do you think he's afraid of joe? >> i don't think donald trump thinks that way. i don't think he's sitting there worried about it. but here is what people don't understand. everybody is saying, who is the front-runner? just as important is who can stay in the race to take votes away from somebody? >> who has the staying power? say iowa goes for elizabeth warren and elizabeth warren wins again in new hampshire. and does it again in nevada where there's a lot of working women and then you go to california and she cleans up. but who else can say -- so it's about war and kamala harris.
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is it over then? >> no. >> or is there a guy like biden or beto who stays in there for 10 or 20 contests and finally goes around the the corner. is that still possible? >> yeah. i'm still on the rules committee, chris. and one of the things we try to establish is to not just get the states to spread out a little bit, but to ensure that we have the kind of diversity and the selection of delegates that we have in every other aspect of our party. look, in 2008 and 2016, the democratic party clearly favored the establishment. but the voters wanted an outsider. that's why you saw barack obama come straight up the mill in that very talented field of candidates in 2008. and in 2016, hillary clinton was the odds on favorite and bernie came within a distance of pulling it off. had the election went another month, bernie would have caught up. >> if they hadn't had the debates on nfl nights. >> that's a whole other
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conversation about our debate schedule. but i do believe that the outsider might be able to accrue delegates. >> vice president biden and senator warren have indicated a time frame they're thinking about. let's take a look at this. >> i don't know. i don't know and i still don't know. i have to make my decision what i'm going to do after the first of the year. >> here is what i promise. after november 6th, i will take a hard look at running for president. >> what's the delay? why don't they just get into this thing. >> well, they want to see where the other candidates are. they want to call donors. they've been holding off until the midterms to make all those calls, except for the very few close people to them. now they want to see is the money there, are the staffers there, do the polls look good.? >> you mean they haven't decided in life they want to be
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president? bill clinton and a lot of them -- i'm not knocking bill. these people, you can tell when they ran for student council when they were 13, they've been running ever since. >> they all want to be president, but to donna's point, you've seen it go 50 states. if these guys want to be competitive and play in that, they're going to have to be able to raise serious money, $100 million, $200 million, $400 million. >> heidi, one potential factor in 2020 could be age. president trump will be 74 on election day 2020. by comparison, senator sanders will be 79. former president joe biden will be 77. elizabeth warren will be -- can we say this about a woman? somewhere near that, but much younger. senator harris will be 56 and senator booker of new jersey will be 51. he's the kid in the race. i grew up thinking eisenhower was a thousand years old and reagan was too old to run for
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president. he would be young. it's incredible what's going on here. the people still want somebody sort of 50ish to be president. that's always been the gold standard, around 50. >> i think bernie sanders pretty much blew up that notion in the last election cycle. and age doesn't matter until it does, until there's an alternative that is a new shiny kind of inspiring face, like a beto o'rourke. and i think what's going to be much more important than age in this cycle is who can bring that secret he sauce of appealing to those midwestern industrial states on a pop ewe list appeal, a working class appeal, while keeping this new coalition together of the republicans, the more affluent suburban, you know, moderate swing voters and not alienating them, not going too far to the left. and i don't know what will emerge. >> but when you're courting during the presidential process,
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when you're courting voters, you're looking for somebody who can appeal to your heart, you but also your head. and democrats tend to like candidates who are feisty. people who can wake you up in the morning and yet at nighttime keep you fired you up. so i think they will look for somebody with new ideas. >> as i mentioned earlier in that political poll, the hypothetical field, beto o'rourke placed in that field and this is how he thanked his supporters on election night. >> everyone who allowed themselves to hope and to believe, to be inspired by one another and to turn that into action and into votes, and to do something that no one, no one thought was possible, to build a campaign like this one, solely comprised with people from all
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walks of life, it is the greatness too which we aspire and the work we're willing to put into it to achieve it by which we will be known going forward. >> well, o'rourke's campaign against republican ted cruz may have galvanized democrats in texas, but also nationwide. but as the "new york times" notes buzz around a possible o'rourke 2020 bid has left some party elders skeptical. former iowa governor tom vilsak told the times, we're always looking for rock stars, you but i don't think the cousntry is looking for rock stars. >> whoa. i think he's wrong. he was not a texas candidate. he was a national candidate. make no mistake about it. he will show high enough in the early polls to be involved in any debate there is. he has a national following that's engaged. >> if he runs. >> if he runs. and he meets the progressive check the boxes, pretty much. i think he's a credible candidate. the other thing, too, let's remember, they're not talking a midterm election voters. you're talking to now very progressive voters who are going to determine this nominee.
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the party, i believe, has moved to the left. i think that's the most engaged party of the party. as they move forward, the candidates are going to start moving to the left. i think he fixes a lot of the boxes that others don't. bernie sanders last time was credible because of how progressive he was. now he's four years older and there's other people just as progressive. in fact, my advice to joe biden would be always get seated next to bernie sander. >> why? >> because then he looks younger. >> what do you think, will he do it? >> there was a lot of analysis before he lost that that could be the best thing for him. >> he just said that. >> yeah. but before he lost, as well, that there was foresight that this would be a potential path for him because he does bring all of those -- he's inspiring, but he has the populist appeal. texas, a state that's coming close now for democrats. >> there are a couple big tests for beto o'rourke going forward. number one is how does he look with 20 other democrats in the
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race picking apart his ideology. >> he's the tallest, 6'4". >> number two, how does he do with women in the south and provide delegate after delegate in the democratic nominating process and number three, how does he do with the blue collar working class white voters in pennsylvania, wisconsin and michigan, those general election states that flipped in the governor and senator races this last time from trump to the democrats. >> well, i just gave him my book on bobby kennedy. he wins in all those categories. the round table is sticking with us. coming up, there are dozens of sleeper candidates for 2020. is there a chance for one of those to break through, to pop up and to get to the front of the back to become the top candidate? it's happened before, several times. plus, the democratic party is looking for signs of the life in the midwest, the rust belt it used to be called. we don't say that any more. it went big for trump in 2016. the upper midwest, can trump hold on to those in 2020 or can
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the democrats who did incredibly well do it again in 2020. finally, a history lesson about the position trump may find himself next year. this is hardball, where the action is. i know you want to leave me for schwab, but before you do that, you should meet our newest team member, tecky. i'm tecky. i can do it all.
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simple. easy. awesome. stay connected while you move with the best wifi experience and two-hour appointment windows. click, call or visit a store today. welcome back. we've just gone over the more obvious picks for 2020, but there are dozens of sleeper candidates who could rise in popularity over the next year. no one here has officially announced they're running. some have said they're thinking about it. let's watch them in action. >> i've said that i've been seriously considering running in 2020 for a while. >> i believe that i've been called to fight as hard as i possibly can to restore that
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moral integrity, that moral decency. >> that sounds like a yes. >> i've been thinking about it. >> i think we have to nominate somebody that can bridge some of the divides that we have. >> the short-term thinking isn't resinating. >> we must send a signal to republicans in washington that they have failed to lead. >> it is important for to us make sure that if we are given the responsibility to govern, that we govern in a pragmatic way. >> not just to govern, but to prepare for 2020, a blueprint where the focus is on workers. we need to focus on what matters to people and that is an optimistic -- >> the state of our union hopeful, resilient and enduring. >> are you looking at it? >> absolutely i'm looking at it. >> listen, i say the more the merrier. >> we're back with our panel. heidi, jonathan, donna and john. i want to start with heidi this time. i look at this second round of what we call the kids' table.
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it's pretty impressive. i can see four or five of those people as impressive. mike bloomberg, if you never get past the primaries can be very impressive. >> sharr onsharrod brown, names haven't been talking about. >> it's hard to tell. some have made their mark in the senate on the issue of sexual harassment, both in the military and on capitol hill. it was a tough situation because she had to lead in that moment and democrats did not want to be accused of being hypocritical. >> we will likely have four or five women candidates. this will be the first presidential election in the "me too" movement moment.
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and i think you will see a serious number of women run. we've never had an issue of which woman to choose from, kamala harris, keeirsten gillibrand. >> like men, it's like let's be john wayne. all men want to be john wayne. maybe not barack obama. he's more relaxed than that. but the paradigm, hillary, she came, she won the popular vote. but she lost in the states that matter. we know all this. >> but it's not going to work this way. having done the last three presidential and been involved in some way, these debates are different when they do two tier. if you went last time and looked at all the republican debates, the first tier, the nonprime time debate was much more substantive, much better, but nobody could move any numbers because they only had one-fifth of the audience watching. >> does the cut off come early?
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>> that's what happens. and it's almost impossible to move out of there because nobody is seeing you in prime time. so unless you have a huge national following that gives you money but doesn't tell posters they're votinger for you or you're a self-funder, it is virtually impossible to start low and move on. >> how large can that fist tier be? cuff more than seven candidates up on the platform? >> we've seen some tv networks try to put 20 candidates on there at once. i think you could legitimately have ten people. >> i agree. i think ten is the starting point. >> but if you have ten, you have to figure out what's in the lower one. they're not going to do 10-2. if you have 12, they're more inclined to do 6-6. >> can they mix it and have different tens? >> that's up to the networks. but i'm just saying -- >> three or four debates, it might be the fairest. the biggest election right now
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for most of these candidates is that election to be on the prime time candidates. >> they have made trip toes iowa and, of course, new hampshire. but long shot possible candidates have taken multiple trips out to iowa for the caucuses. stormy daniels lawyer, we have to put him on the list, michael avenatti. and tom steyer. my hunches don't work any more. i always thought trump had a supporter among the angry white guy. we all knew that. i didn't think there were that many to win those early key states. i'm not ready to write off outsiders. are you? >> not at all.
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the rules are out the window. >> it's the candidates -- it's going to be the candidate who excites the voters. this is democracy in action. we've seen a break-up of the strength of the party system over the course of the last dozener or so years doing part two, but at the moment, what you've got is voters deciding and to some extent donors. >> but to john's point, is there going to be a chance for voters to see them? and i think in this uber crowded field what may be a key determinant is who gets in there the earliest and gobbles ul ap of the best talent and makes the connection and all of the money. there are so much people going to there and starting to recruit. >> new york. i've been in this business 30 or 40 years. longer than you, even. >> okay. >> the yankees, they get all the
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publicity, everybody knows about them. if you've got that new york media thing behind you like mike bloomberg, like hillary clinton, if you've got it like gillibrand, i think there's power behind that. so i would think one of those candidates will be a new york candidate. do you notice this? >> there could be three new york candidates. >> who is the other? >> andrew? >> yes. i'm just saying. >> so if you have three, all of a sudden, the non-new york candidates are in the race for new york. so it's -- it changes the ball game. >> that's the new york media market. >> for a few days, oprah's name was, you know, bandered about. and while they didn't take the bite, there's an appetite for somebody totally different. >> michelle. >> well, look, i like michelle. >> after this tour is over.
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>> after this tour, after selling out, what, 12 arenas. she's a rock star even without running. >> but don't i think a lot of that type now -- and, again, donald trump changed and created the model for doing that. but don't you think a lot of them say why do i need this? i mean, if you look at things like followerers, engage followerers on facebook, oprah is in a different stratosphere. she has more followers than all of the rest of the candidates behind. >> because she's not running. >> the minute he comes out on guns, he loses half the people. by the time you're done, how big your soda pop can be, you've lost almost everybody. >> rudy giuliani learned that in 2008. >> i love this. it will matter soon. >>.up nex up next, signs of life in the next election.
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how good do things looking for somebody in the midwest? sherrod brown just got reelectsed handily in ohio, the toughest of those states for democrats. (music throughout) my mom washes the dishes...
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the top in states that couldn't embrace his party. two years later, democrats in those same states swept contests for governor and senator. the path to the white house is drawn directly through those states now, the upper midwest. can trump hold on or will democrats take back those 46 electoral votes in 2020? i'm back with heidi, jonathan, donna and john. john, you're the expert on that part of the country. pennsylvania now, ever since penn state joined the big ten, it's a midwest state. coming from philly, i know i'm not really in pennsylvania. it he starts around redding. but here is the question. has trump got a hold on that like he has on on the south and the plain states out west? >> i don't think anybody does. but first, you have to throw ohio out of this. ohio is not going to vote the same way as michigan, wisconsin and pennsylvania. i think he won it by ten points where he barely won those states last time. the second thing that people don't understand, i've seen this
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in all the states where they said donald trump did x in 2016 and the republican candidates did y much lower in 2018. therefore, it was a referendum on trump and they don't like trump any more. trump was a third party candidate to many of those voters. they're the sons and daughters of reagan democrats. just because they voted for trump didn't mean they were a republican voter. and many ofs those voters, i believe, will come back to donald trump. you know, they will also -- >> if they get the the right kind of democrat. >> that's right. >> many of those supporters of barack obama in 2008 and 2012. i do believe the message and the messenger will mary. >> so you're saying the same thing. they're on the fence. >> and i think it matters who we select as our nominee if the democrats can regain those states and rebuild that blue wall. >> and our recommendation is hillary clinton. if you could choose dodd that for us, we would be much appreciated. >> i'm going to force you to do this. >> go ahead. >> this is on the table right
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now. why do republicans hate hillary? those that say they do. >> i want to be clear. hillary lost pennsylvania, ohio, wisconsin and michigan. how.? democrats voted for donald trump. not that -- the republicans didn't put him over. it was democrats that put him of. >> wait, wait, i have some street cred here, too. i happen to be from michigan and in michigan, we saw democrats previous, you know, like reagan democrats voting, but we also saw real democrats, the base, not turn out. and this is to donna's point. everything you choose, this is a midterm election. you can't say trump necessarily lost. detake the rural vote. but what can democrats do? they can get their people out, depending on who the nominee is. if, for instance, let's say you choose someone like sherr od -- >> does it have to be someone who drama advertises itizes it.
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>> no, but it has to be someone that unites the working class. >> i wouldn't rule out amy clobishar and some of the other democrats as being able to reach those democrats, as well. >> your thoughts? >> midwestern. >> midwestern appeal. >> to down's point, ohio went about 10 points for trump and sherrod brown just won it comfortably, six points or so. he has that feel. i've long thought that hillary clinton's best running mate in 2016 would have been sherrod brown. >> absolutely. he went to yale, but doesn't let it show. and i think he has the message. be solid on the social issues, choice and lgbt issues, but put economics out front.
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and in those states that will be risk prone when it comes to the economy want to know their president is on their side. only 25% report president trump's trade policies have helped their local economies. according to an nbc exit poll, when you look at voters' opinions by region, one the-thif those report their economies have been hurt by trump's trade policies. john, on this, your point, working guys like bobby casey in in pennsylvania who you worked against and sherrod and debbie stavanaug h are the same. they are actually sing crynchro. do democrats have to be synchronized to win those states away from trump? >> possibly. but that will not be a primary issue for the democrats. what you're talking about are here are the issues.
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like sherrod brown could talk into. whatever candidate comes out of the democrat nomination is not going to -- because of issues like trade. >> trade could. it's tied to the economy. >> in 2016. >> it could be one of those issues that will galvanize -- >> jonk ityou don't think it's o be health care? >> it depends on the state. there were just a punbunch of layoffs in michigan. >> up next, will president trump have a fighter inside his party to topple him?
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welcome back to "hardball." widespread concern about the direction this president has taken the country has weakened prospects in 2020. a serious primary challenge from trump's own party could further complicate his chances of
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becoming a two-termer. recently, jeff flake of arizona who has been a critic of the president left open the possibility of challenging trump income time, telling politico, i'm not ruling it out, i'm not ruling it in. just somebody needs to run on the republican side. by encouraging a primary challenge and considering a bit of his own, flake has changed his tune dramatically since he ruled out that possibility of a presidential run on this show last year. >> are you going to run for president? >> no. >> never? >> i'm -- i'm -- >> this is "hardball." i have to do this. >> how far can you go with it? >> with the last name flake, how far can you go? the senate is probably it. >> what do you mean, with a name like schmuckers, it has to be good? flake is already. >> chief among them is john kasich who ran against trump four years ago. let's listen to the governor.
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>> are you going to primary donald trump? >> well, you know, i don't -- right now, how do you think the primary could go? not great. >> so are you going to run as an independent? >> all options are on the table. >> we're back with heidi, donna, john and phil. let me ask you, donna, it's always been said when you're challenged within your party for a presidential reknoll nation for a second term, look out, you're probably not going to be re-elected. your thoughts? >> i think jerald ford would have some thoughts on that and jimmy carter would have some thoughts on that. you're right. it's a bad news -- >> george sr., too. >> george sr. had a problem with it, as well. i think the biggest danger for donald trump is not necessarily a primary from his own party, but a independent run by somebody in his own party that takes votes away, that basically dbs him the presidency by pulling votes away in big states and prevents him from winning those in the electoral college. >> i've never seen a political
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party as united as yours as ever. i don't know if it's healthy. 91% of your rank and file voters say they're with trump, for example. i've never seen anything like that. does that mean probably, no matter had how bad things get or how difficult things get for the economy in the world events and personality problems, he's still going to end up with no challenge? >> if he ran against john kasich today in ohio for governor, trump would win by 30 points. >> he would win the governorship. >> in ohio against john kasich, no doubt about it. pennsylvania, you know well and i know well, is a good example. you had lubar letter run as donald trump is in the senate, right? he got 88% of the republican vote. 88%. there is no buyer remorse among republicans. where there is an achilles heel are the swing republican voters often found in be it illinois, philadelphia, wherever. donald trump loses some of those
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votes and has to make them up among conservative -- >> how does he get the well educated women back after they decide they don't like him? >> you'll hear a lot of candidates talk about i don't want to make this about donald trump the person. i want to make this about donald trump the agenda, which we can get behind. >> what do you think, heidi? >> i think john is right. this is not about a primary challenge. it's about a potential independent candidacy. and that will all depend on who the democrats are veering towards. it's just like with mike bloomberg in 2016. he waited to see who the democrats were veering towards. since it was hillary clinton and not bernie sanders, he held back. and i think it will be the same thing as this process plays out. >> who is this person, independent? i don't know anybody right now. the pat buchans, who are the people that might run on the right or the center hard right? >> there's a reason to be worried about something like
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nikki haley who might be appealing to the middle. she wouldn't run as an independent, but who knows, he might throw mike pence off the ticket. >> i say what about nikki haley as the new paradigm for the women presidential candidate? >> i think she has a lot of appeal. she's a woman of color from a southern state. i think she can appeal to the middle. >> well, actually, nikki haley specifically ruled out the possibility of running for president when she resigned from the trump administration as ambassador at the u.n. let's watch. >> i will say this. for all of you that are going to ask about 2020, no, i am not running for 2020. i can promise you what i'll be doing is campaigning for this one. so i look forward to supporting the president in the next election. >> that is not only tough, but cute. this with one here. i mean, this one. i'm sorry, i've never seen anyone do that before, pointing to the president. this one here. >> she'll be a force to be reckoned with in 2024 if she
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runs. she's got now the foreign policy portfolio to add to her state level experiences and executive, as donna point out, a woman of color on the republican side. she could be this nation's next woman president. >> she pulled down that flag and when somebody said she was confused she stopped and said, i don't get confused. she gets on the galloping horse of history. does she have a shot if trump quits? >> if trump get knocked off his feet after the mueller report comes out, who knows what will happen to donald trump. >> john? >> there's no doubt -- >> and michael pence or nikki, who wins? >> first of all, they're very close friends so i don't know where that would go. >> oh, come on. break my heart. who wins? >> i would like to think they would be running together as
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maybe a pence/haley ticket. she is a rising star in the republican party. she certainly did a great job and did it with grace. and we don't see that often these days. >> well, maybe she'll get an even bigger job in this administration. we'll see. there's been some pressure on republican senator ben sass of nebraska to mount a primary challenge to trump. while he hasn't ruled it out completely, he has said the prospect is pretty unlikely. >> what are the odds that you will launch a primary challenge to president trump or run as an independent and run for president yourself in 2020? >> i think the odds are a lot higher than i run for the noxious weed control board of dodge county, nebraska, than that. i lived on a campaign bus about 16 months five years ago and in my mind i still have flashbacks of a lot of kid puke on the floor of a bus. for me, i don't think about what job i have. i'm pretty happy living in nebraska and going to d.c. five days a week trying to serve the best i can. >> that was a nice image. >> yeah. >> actually, i'm --
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>> flashbacks from the noxious weed. >> i don't see it. i think there's a void right in and out in the senate with the death of john mccain for the type of voice that he provided. and he's a young guy. >> mitt romney stepped up and played that role of challenger or doppelganger to this president? >> only if they let him. it's not that easy to say you're going to play that role in the republican party. but one thing he said when he talked about the bus and everything, running for president in a primary is actually a lot of fun. he debate, everybody is cheering for you. there's no opposition. it really isn't as disk as he makes it. running for president in primaries is kind of fun as long as you can afford it. >> it's fun covering them. it's a resort. >> but it's growing. getting to know people.
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>> i love getting to know those people. up next, a history lesson about the position trump may find himself in next year. you're watching "hardball." what started with one job spread all around. because each job in energy creates many more in this town. ♪ the greatest wish of all... is one that brings us together. the lincoln wish list event is here. sign and drive off in a new lincoln with $0 down, $0 due at signing, and a complimentary first month's payment. only at your lincoln dealer. every road in the world is now an information superhighway. (phone ringing) and the car has become an accessory to the smartphone. ride hailing, car sharing,
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to take care of yourself. but nature's bounty has innovative ways to help you maintain balance and help keep you active and well-rested. because hey, tomorrow's coming up fast. nature's bounty. because you're better off healthy. . welcome back. even if president trump man national to defeat a republican candidate vying for the republican nomination against him in 20 this can still be consequences. that's because history shows incumbent presidents who faced primary challenges from within
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their own party don't fare very well in the general election come november. in 1992 george herbert walker bush had to defend himself against patrick buchanan and later lost to bill clinton. . jimmy carter was dogged by senator ted kennedy. he lost to ronald reagan that november. four years earlier in 1976, president gerald ford faced a tough challenge from ronald reagan and lost to carter. in 1968 lyndon johnson was weakened by the candidacy of eugene mccarthy and dropped out of the race. let's talk about the president and his own party, how does he stand. is this all over? no matter what happens is trump the republican nominee if he chooses so? >> yes. if you see a narrowing in the republican party but they are very excited about him to the point john was making earlier.
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90% of republicans are with donald trump. that's not going to change. he's got them. nobody will pull that away from him. the danger to him is independent candidacy that is aimed as a cam okay -- kamikaze mission. >> it's conservative republicans that matter when it comes to this, that's the base. number one, he gave them tax cuts. number two he got them two supreme court justices. number three, mike pence there as his vice president. conservatives are saying for us this president has been fabulous. they won't look among their ranks and say who can we get behind. >> there's nor regulation. >> he's extremely popular. loved among these groups. therefore, there is not another candidate against donald trump. i would suggest everybody get that out of their minds now.
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>> the democratic happy hunting ground is not republican votes. >> it's independents. >> get democrats to votes. >> independents and expanding the electorate. get more young people out there to vote and make sure we choose a candidate that cannot just unite the democratic party but inspire the rest of the country. >> that's a hell of a standard. >> we have no other choice. donald trump -- i was surprised looking at some of the exit polls and he is popular. i thought he was doomed after several of his missteps. but he's not. he's popular among the republican base. democrats have to unify the party but the candidate must also inspire independents, millennials and others. >> what allows this candidate, the president of the united states to get through these daily things that people say oh, my gosh, he's finished now. he's gone. he's gone.
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he just said something racial. he's gone. >> in a word tribalism, maybe. to donna's point whoever emerges has to you night the working class because that was the one thread we saw between berniecrats and trumpsters. they believed in this message of the forgotten man and economic advancement. >> american people are not greedy they just want what they have. that's what people want in scranton and in oshkosh. that's all they want. give it to them. this is "hardball" where the action is.
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>> that's "hardball" for now. all in with chris hayes starts right now. welcome to a special taped hour of "morning joe" for the morning after thanksgiving, hope you had a wonderful one. an amazing holiday. and more still ahead of us. with us we have national affairs analyst for nbc news john heilemann. he's the co-host and executive producer of showtime's "the circus." associate editor of commentary magazine, noah rothman is with us. columnist and deputy editorialal page editor at the "washington post," ruth marcus is with us as well. thank you all for being with us. hope you had a great holiday. looking ahead to the lame duck

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