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tv   MSNBC Live With Velshi and Ruhle  MSNBC  December 4, 2018 10:00am-11:00am PST

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>> the biggest thing is does mike flynn implicate trump? >> select grooup of senators at this hour. h haspell was under fire for failing to join a briefing last thursday. and the saudi government's role in the killing of khashoggi. >> this is the very definition of the deep state. the deep state is that the intelligence agencies do things, conclude things, but then the elected officials are prevented from knowing about this. >> i'm going to ask you about north carolina because there could actually be election fraud in that state. the ninth district has not yet been certified. >> "the washington post" and other reporting that senators around an operative who actually had an entire operation gathering people's absentee ballots and either discarding them or altering them to potentially benefit the republican candidate in this
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race. >> we begin this afternoon with breaking news on wall street. the dow has plummeted 600 points over fears of possible economic slowdowns. also many believing that trade truce between the united states and china is all a bit of a fabrication. i want to take a look at the markets right now. just down 574. essentially that is giving back all the gains. after xi jinping and president trump had dinner in argentina saturday night, president trump came out saying we have a truce, we have 90 days. we're going to get through this. it was very positive. china is going to make great concessions. even since yesterday, we've been scratching our heads saying china was basically agreeing to do something that they said they would do months ago that the white house didn't want to do. we wouldn't accept in general. we're going to -- we're going to
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spend more on agriculture and energy and industry products. again, that's the exact plan they were always going to take. it is china's goal to move up the china and make things like electric cars and airplanes. so it was mind-boggling at best for us to try to interpret what the president said since china didn't mimic any of his statements and the president's own administration did not back the president statement's up as it related to the auto industry. i want to bring in cnbc's bob pisani. i started this morning, this is a trading note from jp morgue than writes, it doesn't seem like anything was agreed on and white house officials are contorting themselves into pretzels to reconcile trump's tweets which seems, if not completely fabricated, then grossly exaggerated with
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reality. is this due to the markets saying maybe the trade truce didn't happen? >> i think there's some of that. the market has indicated it cares about three things right now. number one it cares about the federal reserve and how fast they're raising rates. last week, the head of the federal reserve, j. powell, came out and basically implied maybe not as aggressive as some people thought. now we have the two other things the market cares about, number one, tariffs and trade war and number two is global growth. is china slowing or not independent of the trade wars? every time we get positive news on tariffs, there's going to be fewer tariffs. the market rallies. it tends to go down when we get negative tariff news. we had one of the president's top economic advisers who said, look, these are agreements that's very high levels between the president. now it's up to people like us to interpret what they're trying to
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say and what the meaning is. that is, as you know, the devil in the details. the chinese media has been relatively mum about what exactly the specifics are. the president of china just getting back into china. i think a lot of people over there are waiting as well to get a correct interpretation of this. the market's saying right now we're not quite sure what's been agreed to. >> maybe you can help me understand something else wilbur ross said, when he said the economy is strong, it is the press that seems obsessed with what may lie in the future. i'm very confused. i would think jerome powell, the rest of the fed, economic forecasters, are focused on the future. that's how investors figure out how to invest. that's how businesses figure out how they're going to invest going forward. what in the world is ross talking about? >> this is somewhat disappointing the press is constantly made into a bogey man. we're constantly trying to
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figure out what is going to happen because that's what the stock market does. the stock market is not about today. it's actually a discounting mechanism. it's a method of trying to figure out what are earnings for corporations going to look like six to 12 months in the future so we as financial journalists, we have to figure out what's the economy going to be looking like six months to a year from now. there are some signs that china is slowing down. china is one of the most important countries in the world economically. if that's an issue, the markets are going to be concerned about it. the united states economy frankly looks terrific. we had some numbers yesterday. manufacturing numbers that were terrific overall. confidence is still very good. i don't see any signs of any imminent dramatic slowdown. maybe some but recession that would kill a stock market rally in 2019, i don't see it and frankly most other people don't. i think all of us are in agreement the u.s. economy is in good shape. the global economy is a little slower.
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europe and china is. but blaming the pression for this is just misguided. >> they seem very positive and confident. one more question, do you think part of the market drop today could be related to an understanding of tariffs? when the president tweeted earlier today on the tariffs, he talked so much about tariffs, you know, i wonder and i thought earlier on cnbc from diane swann, that does the president understand tariffs, those who get hit are the u.s. consumer? >> i think the president does understand that. one of the things that the president's been very consistent now, even going back 20 years, is that he has had a problem with trade. he feels there's a trade imbalance. most economists would say trade is only one aspect of the global economy. and that putting too much emphasis on, for example, trying to balance trade at all costs of everything else, including looking at companies in the u.s. who export and make a significant amount of money
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exporting is probably the wrong approach. i don't want to get into a policy discussion about it. the one thing that everyone agrees on, everyone, is that the history shows imposing more tariffs hurts the global economy and hurts the u.s. economy. i don't think there are many people that would disagree with that on any kind of long-term basis. >> certainly agree with you on tariffs and on trade. we do need to make things smarter and better and help american manufacturers and consumers without a doubt. china, they have some unfair practices. thank you for joining me. we've got to keep our eyes on the market. we're learning of a major hack involving high-level republicans. politico was first to report that thousands of sensitive e-mails from the national republican congressional committee were exposed to an outside intruder. e-mail accounts blo s belonging four senior aides were reportedly surveilled for several months. the intrusion detected in april.
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confirms it was a victim of a cyber intrusion attack but it will not release any more details. nbc news political editor mark murray joins me live. those who truly understand technology and understand national security say these are the real risks of the future. and we're discounting how major they are. >> yes. stephanie, we saw this play out in real time in the 2016 presidential election. i think be given those 2016 memories, many of us were pressing for this in the journalism community as well as the campaign aides who knew something like this could not actually occur again, but we ended up now knowing, nbc's confirmed with two sources, about this hack. again, we don't know what actually was the intruder here. to me that still is the very big story. if you remember, in 2016 it became evident months into the 2016 presidential election that
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russia and its associates were the ones who were able to hack. most importantly, it was how that information was disseminated. on the eve of the democratic convention. and then the last month of the presidential election, wikileaks again ended up sending out john podesta, the campaign chairman of the clinton campaign's, e-mails. it's still unclear how this information gets disseminated. to me that's the other big story going on here. >> including household names, house speaker paul ryan, they were not aware of the hack until politico contacted the nrtc on monday. why the heck weren't more people told? i mean, people that it impacted? >> that's something we're still getting to the bottom. to me it's interesting according to our own reporting this was first detect bead a vendor back in april, yet people are just being contacted now. and then most importantly to me, it is this was a subject that
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the dccc, along with the nrcc, republican house campaigner, where talking about, what is fair game whas, what is not. the parties weren't able to come to an agreement to discuss that. but still this was something i think everyone was cognizant that could end up happening. it ended up happening. we'll have to see what the receipt nenext steps are. >> seems like a one off until it hits you. mark, thank you. next, we're going to dig into new developments in the russia investigation right now. right now, this minute, the special counsel is preparing the sentencing memorandum for michael flynn. what does that mean? what are we going to learn? we'll bring you the details the moment we have them and break down why michael flynn's role matters big time to president trump. so a tree falls on your brand-new car and totals it. and as if that wasn't bad enough,
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welcome back to "velshi and ruehl." shaping up to be a long complicated and very busy december for the president. and his justified obsession with the mueller investigation. today, the special counsel is set to file a sentencing memo on former trump national security adviser michael flynn. a document detailing not just the lie he pleaded guilty to but
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any other uncharged bad act. remember, it's sentencing four times. friday, the mueller team will enter a filing detail iing manafort. and then on former personal attorney cohen. fired fbi director james comey will testify on capitol hill. comey agreed to appear behind closed doors after the committee promised to release a transcript. also coming on friday, former trump campaign aide george papadopoulos will be scheduled to be released from jail. a busy ten days for the mueller team. as the special counsel prepared
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its sentencing memorandum for flynn, i want to do a quick recap of who he is and how he got to this point. he is a career army officer. he rose to lieutenant general and was appointed to head the defense intelligence agency by president obama. he was outed in 2014 and then retired. one year later, he was paid $34,000 by russian state media to give a speech in moscow and he attended a dinner and had a table right near vladimir putin. a trip and payment he neglected to mention we he renewed his security clearance. during the president am caial campaign, flynn was a leading advocate for trump. >> lock her up. that's right.
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i'm going to tell you, it's unbelievable, unbelievable. >> lock her up. i remember interviewing him in 2016 and i was asking him about vladimir putin and how he's treated at ed aed a ed aed adv. i think he told me to bite my tongue. and the turkish government. it was later revealed his firm had been paid more than half a million bucks by turkey, that is the turkish government. flynn then registered under the foreign agents registration act but it took months. during the transition, michael flynn reached out to russian officials. he spoke with the russian ambassador about blocking a vote backed by the obama administration. a serious breach of protocol and contact he would later be accused of lying about. for his service to the campaign, flynn was hired as national security adviser. he was ousted about a month into the job. the president saying flynn had lied to the vice president about
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meetings he had with russians. then over a year ago, flynn made headlines again, shocking the country as he pleaded guilty to lying to the fbi in the special counsel's investigation, cooperating with the mueller team as part of the plea. that's a lot. see, you forget about that guy. joining me now, nbc news investigative reporter ken dilanian and former special watergate prosecutor nick ackerman. seriously, ken, you're going to have a really busy december. what do you expect to learn from today's filing? >> going to drop in the late afternoon, perhaps as late as 6 p.m. in terms of what we might learn, i've been speaking to legal experts. we're in uncharted territory. normally they're sentenced after the investigation is closed. in this case, the investigation's wide open. there may be some things mueller wants to hold back. at least we can expect to get an accounting of the circumstances
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under which flynn lied about his conversations with the russian ambassador, who told him to do it and we'll see whether that story is consistent with the story told by the president and top aides. >> it's uncharted territory to sentence them while the investigation is still open, why do it? >> i'm not totally convinced he's going to be sentenced. >> really? >> yes, i never have a situation -- >> what do you mean? >> because normally the government wants to keep the sentencing open so they have at least some control over the witness. the witness wants to keep it open because they want to show their cooperation. so i am not convinced that in the end he is not going to be sentenced, particularly in light of michael flynn's guilty plea which to me isnsent a signal there's about to be another indictment. cohen had already been -- had pled guilty to exposure of five to six years in prison.
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so the only reason that the prosecutor's would have insisted on another guilty plea here is because they plan to use him as a witness with respect to the russian issues. in particular, the conspiracy between the russian government and the trump campaign relating to the same charges that were filed against the 13 russian intelligence operatives in july of 2018. >> almost forgot about them. remember when they say the thing is taking so long, benghazi took four years, no indictments. hillary clinton's e-mail took over two years, no indictments. what do we have, 32? >> it would be faster if people stopped lying. >> clever but true. you have flynn, manafort, the most dangerous? >> it comes down to flynn or cohen. i guess leaning towards cohen only because the president's lawyer and fixer has to know a lot of disturbing secrets. >> assuming there are disturbing
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secrets. >> are you saying that with a straight face, stephanie? >> yes, but in all honesty, cohen wasn't part of the administration. michael flynn had to be ousted. you have him say this guy's compromised. >> if there was a russian conspiracy, flynn should know about it. if it was more money laundering, then cohen. >> the one clue you've got in the flynn guilty plea is the materiality of his lie that he pled guilty to and admitted to in front of the court was his lie about the russian sanctions was material to the coordination between the russian government and the trump campaign. all of that means if he's talking to the russian ambassador about sanctions, this all related to the quid pro quo -- >> why vladimir putin would be
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incentivized to help donald trump win? so many people rise up in this investigation, what does it say to you that it is still ongoing? >> i think it is not unusual. i mean, criminal investigation do not work the same way. it takes a lot of time to cooperate witnesses, to put together documents. this is not an unusually long time. in fact, robert mueller has got an incredible number of indictments in a relatively short period of time. also say, president trump is not out of the woods with manafort yet. he's going to be sentenced. he's looking at a life sentence. then he's got to ask himself, am i finally going to come clean or spend the rest of my life in jail? >> he's looking at a life sentence but he had a hail mary pass to the president after cutting a deal with manafort. he's still back-channeling information to giuliani and
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trump. which is a great gift to trump and giuliani. plus the 32 people total who are fulling information for them. he's put himself out there. even the president does an interview with rupert murdoch's "new york post." >> when he doesn't get the pardon, i've had this happen before, people who first aren't going to get the truth, they the good hammered with a major sentence. what are they going to do? he has a chase. either staying in prison or singing. i think you're going to find him in the choir with everybody else at the end of the day. >> all right. >> i think that ship has sailed. >> mega yacht, not ship. we're talking paul manafort. ken, nick ackerman, thank you. cia director gina haspel finished briefing senators on the killing of "washington post" journalist jamal khashoggi. we'll have more on what they learned and how it stacks up against president trump's story. but first, its 100 most powerful women list. this year german chancellor
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angela merkel holds the top spot again. uk prime minister theresa may number two. christine lagarde, number three. she runs the international monetary fund. the top americans are on the list. gem motors ceo mary berra. i've always looked forward to what's next. and i'm still going for my best even though i live with a higher risk of stroke due to afib not caused by a heart valve problem. so if there's a better treatment than warfarin, i'm up for that. eliquis. eliquis is proven to reduce stroke risk better than warfarin. plus has significantly less major bleeding than warfarin. eliquis is fda-approved and has both. so what's next?
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welcome back to "velshi and ruehl." finished briefing a select group of senators on the agency's assessment of columnist jamal khashoggi and what role the cia believes the saudi crown prince played in that murder. the briefing after congressional leaders from both parties pressed the administration, angry over haspel's absent from an all senators briefing last week. this afternoon, they responded to the conflict between what secrets was secretaries pompeo and mattis said last week and what the senators heard at today's briefing. >> the totality of this murder is beyond my sharing it with
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you. it was one of the most brutal accounts one could imagine. it says a lot about you as a person. if the crown prince went in front of a jury, he would be convicted in 30 minutes. >> of murder? >> yes. >> that was the republican bob corker. he said if the crown prince and senate majority, it would be 30 minutes to a murder conviction. joining us now, msnbc's garrett haake. and former national security spokesperson ned price. what more did you learn about today's briefing? >> none of the senators coming out would talk about the specifics. this was a classified briefing. but stephanie, it was a stinging rebuke from the senators who did stop and talk to us. the republicans even stronger than the democrat saying there is absolutely no way you could look at the evidence that was presented today and not see the fingerprints of mohammed bin salman, the crown prince of saudi arabia, all over the killing of the journalist jamal
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khashoggi. the senators were incredibly clearly frustrated that what they saw in that room confirms their suspicious and confirmed frankly that the white house has not been deemed forthcoming and forth right with the american people about this. i asked lindsey graham about, you know, secretary pompeo's answer to the question. i asked him last week, secretary pompeo said there was no direct evidence. lindsey graham said there's no smoking gun, there's a smoking saw. you would have to be willfully blind with his direction. the direct involvement. being a good sport, but that something has to be done to punish mbs, to separate him from the saudi people, because all of these senators said they don't see how they can continue to do business with someone who would operate in this way, so complicit, they all agreed in this murder. >> he works for the american people. tell me this. why was the briefing more
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limited than last week's, garrett? i saw earlier rand paul up in arms he wasn't there. >> partially about the sensitivity about this information. rand paul's complaint here is this was not a situation where one senator was more equal than others. that all 100 senators ought to have access to this same information. he called it an example of the deep state but the argument you have from the intel community side is the information in this briefing was so sensitive that they wanted only a select group of people there. you had the so-called gang of eight, the leaders of the intelligence committees, the leaders of both parties, and then a select few additional senators including grand who had been extremely outspoken about this. they wanted a smaller group to prevent leaks of specific information. you didn't hear that from any of these senators. they only talked about how this briefing changed their opinions or how it didn't. not the specifics of what they were told in that room. >> okay, i need you to walk us
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through. because president trump considers himself a law and order guy, a tough guy, but as it relates to saudi arabia, he's always had a shine for saudi arabia. and the royal family. as has his son-in-law, jared kushner. that's when the back and forth around all of this is confusing. originally, we thought the white house stopped gina haspel from going last week. and then it sounded like no, she wasn't prevented but she wasn't invited. what does all this mean? for people who have never served in government but who clearly would say all of our government leaders should know what happened, walk me through it. i don't get it. >> it's not just president trump, stephanie. it's others within his administration. you mentioned jared kushner. take a look at secretary of state pompeo. what we have heard from president trump, from secretary pompeo and others in recent days have been these strawman arguments. there's no direct reporting we heard from pompeo tying salman to the murder.
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we heard from president trump, maybe they did, maybe they didn't. what this amounts to is strongman arguments from yes, men, yes men like salman. the trump administration even during the transition period in between the obama and the trump administration has ceded our foreign policy to salman. we have followed him into yemen hook, line and sinker. we have followed his ideology in taking on iran in every corner of the globe. even when it's not in our interest. we have done nothing when mohammed bin salman engaged in diplomatic spat with our canadian neighbors to the north and the administration looked the other way when salman essentially kidnapped the lebanese prime minister. what we have here is a foreign policy in the middle east that doesn't make sense, it doesn't make sense from america's national interest. it could, however, make more sense if you think about this in terms of president trump and jared kushner and others personal interest.
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obviously, they have business interests there. >> please stay there for a moment for me. for the average american sitting at home saying why do i care about this, what does this have to do with the united states and me putting food open my tabn my? why should this matter? >> we have a president of the united states who serves concurrently as the commander in chief. he should put our interests first. protecting the american people at home. protecting our citizens who were around the road deployed in the military and other capacities. or our private businesspeople all over the globe. what we have now, at least by one account, you take a look at what this administration has done, it subvert those interests. to place our national collective interest behind their own personal interest. president trump famously bragged about it in 2015, why should i
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dislike the saudis? they spent $40 million on my apartments. he engaged with business dealers with the saudis in the past. you put all of this together and it paints an ominous picture of an administration that isn't looking out for us but is looking to continue to line their pocketbooks while president trump served in office with his hotel in washington, d.c., his tower in new york city, and when he returns to being a private citizen in any number of years. >> pretty complicated situation. next, we're following the drama and this is really, really important for every person in this country who believes in democracy who goes out and votes. there's drama going down in wisconsin. politics there that could impact the 2020 election. you got to pay attention. republicans are trying to strip power from the democratic government elect and limit early voting. how though could affect
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everything from obamacare to gun rights in this swing state. first, another quick markets check. here's a live look at the dow right here. last, we were down 600. then down a few minutes ago 700. inches back to 690. remember, we lost all of the gains we saw earlier this week from the enthusiasm after president trump has said he has such a good dinner, temporary truce with china, with regard to the trade talks. now the market down almost 700. worried about the fed raising rates and of course trade with china. ♪ ignition sequence starts. 10... 9... guidance is internal. 6... 5... 4... 3... 2... 1...
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welcome back. pay attention, this is important. republicans appear to have new answers to their major losses in the midterms at least some of them. weaken the incoming democrats. in at least three swing states, wisconsin, michigan and north carolina, they're proposing bills that would strip newly elected democrats of some of their powers. lawmakers in wisconsin are debating their proposals behind closed doors right now. putting lawmakers in charge of litigation which would block the incoming democratic governor and attorney general from withdrawing from a lawsuit to overturn obamacare. curbing the governor's ability to write state rules. allowing lawmakers to replace the attorney general with
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private attorneys at taxpayer expense when the state laws are challenged. requiring the governor to get permission to ban guns. let's think about that. joining me now, bloomberg politics national political reporter. tell me i'm misunderstanding this. i mean this is stunning to me. americans went out and voted. and you could like how they voted or not like how they voted. now, before the newly elected take their positions, suddenly those in power are changing the rules? could that even be true? >> i think you're describing it accurately. there are a couple of layers. the republicans there including governor scott walker in wisconsin who had been defeated argued this is legal, they are elected to four year terms and they still have a month or so. the aspect of this that's most fascinating is the aca lawsuit. these rules of wisconsin republicans succeed in changing them would protect the state's
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participation in a lawsuit that would overturn the aca if successful and that was litigated during the gubernatorial campaign. one of the top issues, wisconsin voters said that was their number one issue. those voters voted for the democrat by a 47 point margin so you can argue this is the reason scott walker lost. and what democrats are arguing is this prevents the new governor elect by fulfilling his mandate. a number of layers to this. why democrats are going so far as to argue these actions are befitting of banana republic dictators. >> unethical, sleazy, you can think of any word you want. is it going to work? >> well, it very well might. there's one word you left out. that is hypocritical. as the hill was talking about governor scott walker, looking back at this issue, the story popped up that eight years ago
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when scott walker was the governor-elect, he called on the outgoing governor to stop negotiating labor contracts because the people of wisconsin that voted, he was coming in as governor and he should have the opportunity to negotiate contracts that would affect wisconsinites when he's governor. eight years later, he's out the door. democrats have retaken the governorship. now he's gone a full 180 -- >> okay, donovan, in response, republicans can say sticks and stones may break my bones but words would never hurt me. what can democrats actually do to stop this? because this will be a major blow to any policies that, you know, governor-elect wants to get done especially as it relates to welfare, health care. these are the main campaign promises. what can they do? >> the problem is, the republicans still control the
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legislator so now, i mean, good luck with this. but appealing to the democratic, small "d" democratic impulses of those elected members of congress. there is no way this should even be allowed. there's a reason why wisconsin voters went down to the capitol and were protesting government officials. saying, you know, this is -- you're taking away my vote. you're swequelching my vote. if the republicans are not going to listen to the people in their state, which they are always so -- sort of ready to say the voice of the american people, the voice of the state of wisconsin, the voice of the state of michigan, the people in the state of michigan have had their say. when people of those states say they want democratic leadership, suddenly republicans go deaf. when you've got republicans with control of the legislature, words aren't going to matter.
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it's going to be being actions. they have shown they couldn't care less about the people in their state who opted for a different direction. >> they're always going to early voting legislation, voting rights. bad things happen in the dark. we're talking about this in the light. take me local to these stituent states know this is happening? >> if you look at wisconsin, there are talks about, you know, they want to curtail early voting from something like six weeks to a maximum of two weeks. you can see some here who vote early is predominantly democrats. >> do voters across the state, are they aware? if they're not watching cable news, do people in their hometowns know this is happening right under their nose? >> i don't know the answer. i think that's what democrats -- they really want accountability, they want, you know, to punish
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republicans for this, then they have to get voters to do it. it's not clear to me what republicans are doing is illegal. they do seem to have the power while they're still in office in the lame duck session to make these changes. at the end of the day, it's only voter accountability for this sort of norm violation that can go the distance in preventing future governors and state legislatures from pursuing a similar path. >> then voters can get out there and say it might not be illegal but it is unacceptable. thank you so much. we've got to stay on this story. but we have to continue to follow markets. on wall street, the dow now down over 700. that's a live look. i want to bring sue vrevivera. you've got the concerns over global growth and those very excited about the trade truce or cease-fire, that's sort of gone out the window. what is all this about?
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>> basically, it's a convergence of all three of those factors you just outlined. the analysts are very concerned about the so-called china trade deal. many people feel as though not much really was accomplished. the president putting mr mr. lighthizer in as the lead negotiator with beijing, with china, has the market a little worried. because he is a china hard-liner and as a result of that, they're a little bit worried this trade truce basically is not a truce and we may actually get an escalation of trade tensions between the u.s. and china. in addition to that, as we see the dow down 710 points right now, we're seeing the difference between really short-term interest rates and really long-term interest rates. tighten up. and that has the market worried that that is signaling a big slowdown in the economy. and that's why we're seeing the financial stocks sell-off. the transportation stocks are selling off. and big companies that do
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business with china like boeing and caterpillar, they're really getting hit hard today. also, apple. it was downgraded because of course it's a global company. a lot of global companies are under extreme pressure in today's trading session, steph. >> all right, sue, thank you so much. we're going to stay on markets. and always, i invite a member of the administration, larry kudlow, steve mnuchin, ivanka trump, i'm just thinking of anyone in the administration that likes to tweet and talk about the economy and markets on a regular basis. please, i invite you all to come join me on ear. i hear often from eric and don jr. on social media. they think we don't cover markets. we absolutely do. in fact, if she wants to talk about the yield curve, flattening inversion, come on over, the water's warm. we're digging back into politics as well, this time in the swing state of north carolina. a statehouse race is now being held up over allegations of
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welcome back. do you hear my voice? ali, can you please come home? i'm sauuffering here. exactly four weeks since election day. a key congressional race in the swing state of north carolina is still undecided. our election expert steve kornacki joins me live. steve, it's been twice now that they will not certify this race. i need you to really walk us through what happened. >> yeah, ninth district in north carolina. look, the declarerd winner, it looked like, was marek harris, the republican in this race. you can see the margin we're talking about here, 905 votes. that's his advantage over mccready. it the reason this hasn't been certified, they involve absentee ballots. they involve absentee ballots in two particular places, these two counties out here. these are pretty big geographically. they're small, rural counties in terms of population, but we're
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talking 905 votes. so everything makes a difference. let's take a closer look inside these counties and show you what we're talking about. you see overall this is a mark harris county. however, what catches people's eyes, this is the only county in the district where harris won the absentee vote. >> so what exactly happened, or what do they suspect happened with these absentee ballots? >> look at it this way. 19% -- you can tell by registration. 19% of the ballots returned in this county for absentee, 19% were from republicans. and yet, harris won by their account 61% of the absentee total. that is out of whack with what he's doing in every other county in this district. >> so what do they do? did they reach out to everyone who they sent a ballot to? >> you have affidavits now that have come in from some voters saying, hey, i received an absentee ballot at my house. in some cases, i don't remember requesting it, but it came. i had the absentee ballot, and
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somebody came to my house, and i'm not sure exactly who this -- >> okay, time out. does that ever happen? if i request an absentee ballot, i fill it out and mail it back. is there ever a scenario where an election official knocks on my door and retrieves it? >> no, that is not supposed to happen. north carolina does have rules in terms of not making the person themself, not making a direct family member return the ballot. so there are looser rules here. >> but a stranger ringing your doorbell is different from me saying, yo, steve, are you swinging by? can you mail that for me? >> of course. so the suspicion here -- and i want to stress this is a suspicion. in terms of holding this open, having a hearing, is to find out if there's evidence there was fraudulent activity here on the part of people coming to these houses, taking these ballots. are they changing the ballot and turning it in? are they discarding the ballot if they think it's a democratic ballot? part of this has been linked
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back. the suspicion has been linked back to a political operative who was paid by a vendor for the harris campaign who has a reputation as a specialist when it comes to absentee ballots. >> what's a specialist when it comes to an absentee ballot? you're talking consultants, vendors. none of this sounds like americans just going out to vote. >> i'm trying to be careful how i phrase this. it's suspicious. when you see every county in this district, no matter what, a republican county, a democratic county, every county mccready won the absentee vote except for one. that's an anomaly. >> are there 905 votes that could change the outcome of this election? >> right. so there's two different categories. the margin is 905 district wide. the number of absentee votes that harris received here, the exact number, is 679.
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republicans will say, well, that's not enough to overcome the 905. but the other issue is this -- i say it's two counties because the other thing you had was extremely high numbers of unreturned absentee ballots. so people who would get absentee ballots, they were sent out -- >> here's the good news. the election has not been certified, and the election board is investigating and doing their homework. that's all we can ask for. >> so december 21st, sometime in that period they'll hold an evidentiary hearing. they can say, there's a taint here, we'll have a new election. >> we'll stay on this. steve kornacki, thank you so much. right now we've got to talk about washington because former president george h.w. bush is now lying in state in the capitol rotunda. just moments ago, former republican senator bob dole paid his respects. the 95-year-old was helped to his feet so he could salute the
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casket. the public can visit there until 8:45 p.m. eastern time -- excuse me, 8:45 a.m. eastern time tomorrow morning. then at 11:00 a.m. tomorrow, a state funeral will be held at the washington national cathedral. tomorrow afternoon, the casket will be flown to houston where the former president will lie at st. martin's episcopal church. you can watch it all live here on msnbc. on thursday at 11:00 a.m. eastern, a funeral service will be held at st. martin's at 1:30 p.m. eastern. the casket will leave by train in a funeral procession to the bush library and museum in college station, texas. president bush will be buried thursday in a family plot behind the bush library complex beside his wife and former first lady barbara and their daughter robin. it is time now for our monumental americans. today, we honor four american heroes. the u.s. troops killed by an ied in afghanistan last week. listen to how young they were.
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29-year-old army captain andrew patrick ross of lexington, virginia, 25-year-old air force staff sergeant, dylan elchin of pennsylvania, 39-year-old army sergeant first class eric michael emond of brush prairie, washington, and 24-year-old army sergeant jason mcclary of export, pennsylvania. captain ross had served more than seven years in the army and was on his second tour when he was killed. he's survived by his wife and his mom and dad. staff sergeant elchin was on his first deployment. his mom says he was planning to marry his fiance when he came home in january. sergeant emond, just a 21-year veteran of the army and marine corps, was on his seventh tour overseas. he helped start massachusetts' fallen heroes, a nonprofit that helps gold star families. he leaves behind his wife and three young daughters. and sergeant jason mcclary
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served since 2014 and also served in iraq. in just four years, this man received not one, but two purple hearts, among many other awards. he leaves behind his wife and their two baby boys. a heartfelt thank you to these men for making the ultimate sacrifice. thank you for watching this hour of "velshi & ruhle." i'll see you tomorrow morning at 9:00 a.m. eastern. check us out on social media. connect to our show @velshi&ruhle. right now chris jansing is here to pick up coverage. >> thank you for honoring those heroes, especially on a day when we honor a hero, george h.w. bush. i want to ask you to stay. i came in here looking at what the markets were doing. they have plunged more than 700 points. can we put up the latest boards? of course, i went to our sister network, cnbc.com, where it says markets plunge. two other headlines. bank stocks fall the most in more than a year, enter a bear

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