tv The 11th Hour With Brian Williams MSNBC December 21, 2018 8:00pm-9:00pm PST
the wildest sentence i have now ever heard is justice ginsburg would you like anything to drink? she ordered coffee. that's tonight's last word. the 11th hour with brian williams starts right now. one hour to shutdown at midnight eastern time portions of the federal government will begin to close up shop. half a million americans will be furloughed as trump holds out for funding for 200 miles of steel slats with a pointy top. it caps off a chaotic week right before christmas with markets falling and the nation's defense chief out due to erratic military decisions. "the 11th hour" on a friday night begins now. good evening once again from our nbc news headquarters here in new york, day 701 of this trump administration. we are now less than one hour away from a partial government
shutdown. both the house and senate have adjourned for the night. those whose districts are close enough to washington have already gone home and started their christmas break. no deal was reached after the big three white house officials, that would be son-in-law jared kushner, incoming acting chief of staff mick mulvaney, and vice president mike pence went up to the hill and did some diplomacy trying to hammer out some sort of agreement on the hill with democrats and republicans. well, here's how we got to the brink. wednesday night the senate passed a short-term spending bill. the president said he would not sign because it didn't include any money for his border wall. yesterday the house added in the president's 5 billion in wall funding, sent the measure back over to the senate. today after a five-hour procedural vote delayed to allow senators to get back to washington, including a democrat from hawaii who flew all the way home and all the way back, they finally agreed to open debate.
however, the house version of the spending bill still does not have 60 votes needed to pass in the senate, so it's doa and right now on the darkest day of the calendar year, there is no plan to vote on the bill. the procedural vote narrowly passed 48-47, vice president mike pence had to cast the tie breaking vote. as of this hour, it's not clear what any possible deal to reopen the government might look like or when, but we know both the house and senate plan to reconvene at noon eastern time tomorrow. so the american people can take heart at that. 75% of the government including the pentagon will still be funded after the top of the hour, but this partial shutdown means a number of key agencies will be impacted. they include homeland security, transportation, commerce, interior, agriculture, housing and urban development, the justice department, epa, fda,
and nasa. an estimated 400,000 federal employees will be working without pay, 350,000 are about to be furloughed or sent home. if you are traveling for the holidays, as you see the folks in blue shirts, please know that all those people working for the tsa are going to be working to keep our skies safe. they will not be getting paid. members of the house freedom caucus including chairman mark meadows, congressman jim jordan have been urging the president to veto any bill that comes his way without money in it for his border wall. earlier tonight on fox news, both members of congress tried gamely to shift the blame to democrats. >> the only reason we're going to be headed to a shutdown here in a few hours is because democrats don't want to support something that will actually secure the border. >> indeed in just a few hours when it shuts down, the only person standing between really getting a deal and not getting a deal is chuck schumer.
>> tonight the president posted a video on twitter shot inside the white house trying to put pressure on senate democrats just ahead of the shutdown. >> now it's up to the senate, and it's really up to the democrats because we need their votes. there's no way it can pass without their votes. we're going to have a shutdown. there's nothing we can do about that because we need the democrats to give us their votes. call it a democrat shutdown, call it whatever you want, but we need their help to get this approved. >> this morning president trump warned the shutdown could go on for a while, quote, if the dems vote no, there will be a shutdown that will last for a very long time. people don't want open borders and crime. short time later he added, quote, the democrats now own the shutdown, but this reminder, here was the president ten days ago. >> you know what i'll say? yes. if we don't get what we want one
way or the other whether it's through you, through a military, through anything you want to call, i will shut down the government. >> fair enough. we disagree. >> and i am proud. i tell you what, i am proud to shut down the government for border security, chuck, because the people of this country don't want criminals and people that have lots of problems and drugs pouring into our country. so i will take the mantle. i will be the one to shut it down. i'm not going to blame you for it. the last time you shut it down, it didn't work. i will take the mantle of shutting down. >> with that, let's begin tonight with the state of play at one axis of this and then the other. hallie jackson covers the white house. garrett haake covers capitol hill. hallie, first to you. i think most americans regardless of party will regard this as a pretty pathetic chapter in our politics. how long is the white house willing to take this out? >> reporter: sounds like, brian, based on my conversations with officials and sources here, the expectation is a lot of
resignation, that this goes through until at least sunday night at that point. now, what happens after that, that's the big question mark given that right now i'm told things are really at this stalemate like we've been talking about for the past 48 hours, despite all that maneuvering you saw over at garrett haake's end of pennsylvania avenue. the president, the white house wants more than $1.6 billion in border funding, border security, democrats want to give less than that. that's just where they are right now. something's got to give in order to get the government back open. i will tell you just in the last couple of minutes here, brian, it's official. the office of management and budget director mick mulvaney who happens to be the incoming chief of staff signed off on a memo that has gone out to government agencies as of about 10:00, 10:30 that says at 11:59 this is a shutdown. mulvaney writes in his memo, he says i hope that this will be of short duration, this lapse in appropriations, although the president said earlier this morning, that he thought as you
point out this could last a very long time. the president has since changed his view in a video that was tweeted out earlier this evening. the president said i hope that this shutdown will not last long, but right now nobody knows how you get to a solution on this. again, somebody's got to back off one of their demands. right now signs point to the president needing to do that given where the leverage points are. we'll see how this goes over the next couple of days. logistically, and you know this, the impact of a weekend shutdown just practically, that has less of a real person impact on those federal workers that you're talking about than, for example, a weekday shutdown. neither is good. nobody likes either but logistically that's the case. what's the difference between a weekend shutdown and a weekend plus two holiday days shutdown? pretty much nothing, right? when you look at christmas eve and christmas if it goes that long, except for one thing. the location of donald trump because normally over christmas eve and christmas he is down in south florida with his friends and with his family because,
remember, the first lady is going to be at mar-a-lago for the holidays regardless of where the president is at that point, and so if the president is getting frustrated that he's not able to travel, that may end up creating some wiggle room here. it may not. i'll tell you, i ran into mick mulvaney a little bit ago and he and jared kushner the vice president were on their way back by happenstance and he said, yeah, we're still talking. the conversation is happening. conversation's not enough to get the government back open. >> absolutely right. garrett haake over to you on capitol hill. i'm told by a reliable source that building is virtually empty. everybody's checked out and gone home? >> reporter: it's pretty much just me and the statues at this hour. compared to the last two shutdowns, there is a noticeable lack of urgency. we're less than an hour away from a shutdown. both houses of congress have gone home. senators were told go ahead and go home. we'll try and give you 24 hours notice. we're only going to bring senators back if there is a big
picture deal to do. right now a couple of things are clear here. there is no plan and no deal in the offing. mulvaney telling hallie there are still conversations may be true, but that's the sum total of where we got in this entire day today. the house passed their cr last night, their continuing resolution, with $5 billion for the wall. the senate today approved only that there are not -- not only are there not 60 votes for that in the senate, there aren't 50 votes for that. we've at least started the process of good faith negotiations here on the senate side of things, but there's no sign that that ends anytime soon. i think hallie's right. if we shut down tonight and we will, the prospects of this getting done saturday or sunday or going into christmas gets much more difficult. and how do we get out of this is still a completely open question. i cannot emphasize this enough. all the posturing done by house republicans in particular earlier in the week and by the president were to prove o'poia . there is no solution on the table right now.
we find ourselves going back to talking about the things that were discussed earlier in the week and last week as possible solutions. you might remember there was this discussion about this $1.6 billion number to fund the department of homeland security as part of a bigger deal that would include money for border security. there's been a noticeable lack of agreement around the definition of a wall here. when i talked to senators and house members. i could almost see a scenario here, the president's been talking about steel slats. he did it again in that video you played here where everybody just agrees to disagree about what makes a wall, and democrats say we're not giving any wall money. we're just giving border security or fencing money. the president says, a ha, this is the wall we're talking about. that's how far off the rails the conversation has gotten here. i think we are a long way from a potential solution here. >> 50 minutes away from the scheduled time partial shutdown of the government. thank you very much. hallie jackson at the white
house, garrett haake as you can hear in the all but empty u.s. capitol. we'll check in again with you both. with that let's bring in our leadoff panel for this friday night before christmas. peter baker, chief white house correspondent for the "new york times" and andy kearney is back with us, white house reporter for the "new york times." annie run through the roughest list of the headlines we are dealing with as this week comes to a close and we note which of those stories the president has chosen to cast his lot with? >> this is a big part of why we're talking about the border wall, i think. first of all we have mattis's resignation that is the secondary story now, but one that roiled the white house, concerned aides, concerned the international order about where the guardrails are now on trump's presidency. there's the mueller investigation hanging over him. that's progressing, and democrats are going to take over in january leading to oversight hearings, and of the options of
what the president has to talk about right now, talking about fighting for funding for the border wall might be his best option. it's knocking out the other headlines out of the news, so that might be -- he doesn't have a lot of good options to choose from. this isn't a great one. it might be the best of the batch right now. >> peter baker, here's the acting chief of staff. here's the vice president and the president's son-in-law going up to capital hiol hill, going office to office. do you think they had the authority to negotiate? do you think they were -- they were confident that their word would hold when it was brought by the president, and b, do you think any strategy is at work here, or is everyone just looking to the boss for the next move? >> yeah, those are two really good questions. i think the problem for any kind of negotiation involving vice president pence or jared kushner or mick mulvaney is exactly that because the people on the other side of the table don't know whether or not a deal cut in that room would hold longer than
the five minutes it took to call the white house and hear what president trump had to say. we've seen just this week alone the president was demanding $5 billion for the border wall. he wasn't going to give in unless he had that. then he was backing up, and said well, we're going to look to other agencies to fund the wall and signaling a bit of a retreat, and then with complaints of the conservatives on the house side, rush limbaugh and so forth, suddenly he was strong against rejecting the very measure that mcconnell, his close alley had just pushed through the senate. it's a real problem if you don't think the other person on the other side of the table can stick to the strategy. you're right, the question is what is the strategy because it doesn't seem like there's an obvious end game at this point. >> annie, you note the president and others have already in this hour as well have changed the definition of what we're talking about already. he tonight offered the wording slat fence, which just rolls off the tongue. let's also talk about his
influences. you've got jordan. you've got meadows. you've got coulter. you've got limbaugh. these are the people, the voices he hears right now that seem to be steering him? >> these are the voices that seem to have been what changed the plan from wednesday and thursday to where we are now where republicans on the hill that hu thought that he would sign the original bill that the senate had come up with. that's another point about jared kushner being one of the people who went down to the hill today to negotiate. he's a trusted adviser of the president, as is ivanka, two of the closest people to him. but the president knows that those two don't represent his base. so for jared kushner to be the one in that room when the president is really concerned right now about him losing the base on this and trying to stay strong doesn't make him necessarily the strongest negotiator for the president on this particular issue when he is being influenced by these hard
right talking heads on television and members of the freedom caucus who are trying to project to him and tell him you've got to keep your base and stay strong for the wall you promised for two years. >> peter, it is difficult, let's all agree for this president to find people to hire who have not uttered a bad thing about him in the past, and proof of that arrived today. this is a recording of the new, again, acting chief of staff, mick mulvaney talking about trump and the border walsh in 2015. >> the fence doesn't solve the problem. is it necessary to have one? sure, would it help? sure, but to just say build the darn fence and have that be the end of an immigration discussion is absurd and almost childish for someone running for president to take that simil simplistic of view. >> that's not going to go over well. >> you're right.
there's already some consternation in the oval office over another comment mick mulvaney made during the 2016 campaign when he said he didn't particularly like donald trump after the access hollywood tape and he was going to vote for him only because he was better than hillary clinton. i think those -- you know, you see how those quotes come back to haunt republicans who are trying their best to work with this president, and yet the president obviously still, you know, holds those against them when they come up. he might not have been aware of this particular recording. he is now i presume, and my guess is mick mulvaney's going to hear something about it. you're right, so many of the republicans who could possibly serve in this white house or administration at one point or another were not for president trump. the pool of people who were for him from the beginning and had the background to help him out in some of these key positions is relatively small, and it's getting smaller. jim mattis out the door, john kelly out the door. jeff sessions out the door. more perhaps to come. >> two of the "new york times"
best, we appreciate it. coming up for us, wall street just wrapped up its worst week since the financial crisis of '08 a decade ago. ron ensana is here in the studio, will tell us why this is happening, and just perhaps where it's going. and later, the struggle to try to keep the government open may be a hint of what's to come. two former members of congress with us tonight to offer up some new year predictions. t "the 11th hour" just getting started on this friday night before christmas. istmas (chime)
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can we call this a chaotic week in washington, fears of a government shutdown about to become real after the top of the hour sent the stock market into something of a free fall. the dow fell another 400 points again today. this is just this week that graphic, and it made it the worst week on wall street in a decade. nasdaq has now officially entered a bear market. with us here to talk about it cnbc senior analyst and commentator, ron ensana. ron, how bad is it? >> bad enough, brian. as you said the nasdaq's in a bear market. the dow and the s&p 500 two other major averages are down 18% from their highs of the year. they're down 8% for the year-to-date, so this is either however you want to characterize it, a serious correction or a bear market in stocks, something we haven't seen for quite a number of years. again, a lot of it's predicated on these concerns about washington, concerns about interest rate policy, trade policy, and a whole host of other things that are really out of the hands of wall street
decision-makers and found squarely in washington. >> that was my next question, any of the triggers, any of what's causing this -- and i'm sure a government shutdown doesn't help -- >> not at all. >> any of it controllable? >> if the federal reserve were to decide not to raise interest rates going into 2019, and john williams was interviewed by my colleague steve liesman this morning, he's the president of the federal reserve. he said interest rates next year are not set in stone. if financial conditions deteriorate, the stock market falls more deeply, credit markets get disrupted or we see signs of serious slowing in the economy, the fed may not raise rates again at all. that boosted the market early this morning by 400 points before we started to sell off in the middle of the day. part of it on the shutdown, part of it peter navarro, the president's top trade adviser said the negotiations with the chinese over trade that will begin in january will not be easy, and that sent us to the lows of the day. >> we have all kinds of folks watching tonight. we've got young folks and old folks and rich folks and not so rich folks.
is there a bit of advice that is convertible no matter who you are in life? >> yeah, time is the element here that's most important if you're an investor. if you have down payment money in the market, it should never have been there in the first place. if you have 10, 20, 30 years to retirement, you ride this out as you did in 2008, in 2000, in 1994 and '95, 1987 other notable periods where we've had big market downdrafts. if you don't need the money and it's put away for retirement, i wouldn't ignore this, but you don't have to worry nearly as much about it. if you're closer to retirement or needing the money, i've been recommending almost all year people raise cash. this has been an environment that's been notably difficult since february. >> you are aware that telling people to ride it out is easier than actually riding it out. >> there's a huge emotional component to investing, and it really depends. for really young people, and you know, my retirement age as a tail end baby boomer is officially 67. they're not going to retire until they're 70.
you're talking to somebody in the their 20s. they've got close to 50 years to sock away money. if you're on the other end of this and you need to pull money out, you make those moves into safer investments. we can be in a bear market, a garden variety bear market down 20% in the major averages, maybe a little more. this could go on for a number of months before the repair work is done. we do need positive catalysts to get the market out of this funk. we need the federal reserve to stop raising rates. my personal bet is they're done. i would bet if we get a compromise of some kind that would relieve pressure on the market. we do need some progress on trade, and we will need to deal with burgeoning federal budget deficits. that's not an immediate problem, but we need to get these other obstacles out of the way. >> always a pleasure, thank you very much for stopping by. donald trump has been more than happy to take credit for the stock market when it's been surging, but "the washington post" reports, the president has complained to aides about how unfair it is he is blamed for the market slide and that,
quote, the lower market drops the more the president is worried he is losing his most potent argument for re-election. for more, let's bring in donna edwards, former democratic member of congress representing the great state of maryland and a former republican member of congress from the state of florida, great state of florida, of course. david jolly who left the gop in october just to make it official. congressman jolly, just for the sake of fun add to this discussion of the markets a shutdown coming up in less than an hour? >> sure, and look, markets don't like uncertainty, and they're going to be looking in the next year where can they find stability, where's the additional juice that was already spent in the tax bill. the uncertainty of a government shutdown always rattles the markets. we know that. the important thing, brian, is to keep the facts straight here. a lot of political arguments are going to be made, most of them only half true. it is not whether we build a wall or not, it is whether there's 5 billion or
1.6 billion. the senate's provided 1.6 for physical pedestrian barriers 65 miles of a wall. it's the president that moved the ball during the summer to say make it $5 billion. we've got to keep him honest on that going into this. who knows how this ends. i think it could go just a few days, but the question is how long do they punt for. is it really february? you don't do anything if you punt until february. i think eventually they give in and punt for the full year. >> donna edwards i think for a lot of people, the notion of federal employees is ephemeral, it's distant. it doesn't include them or their families. your congressional district on the other hand, you know from federal employees. let's take a single mom, two kids works for the commerce department. she's going to be told not to show up for work monday on top of that she's going to be told she's been furloughed. this has a real personal cruelty to it. they always do. >> well, that's true, and
actually, i remember the shutdown in 2013, and it was over a period of a couple of weeks, and i remember constituents calling my congressional office who weren't able to continue to make payments to their child care center to keep their spots. there were small businesses that were really struggling because now there was nobody to buy coffee in the coffee shop or to take their clothes to the dry cleaners. this really does have a real world effect, and even if you can then, you know, at the end of the day make federal workers whole, it doesn't erase what happens in those couple of weeks when mortgage payments are due, when tuition right now is coming due for the spring semester. and, you know, when you think about the 700,000 federal employees who were impacted, even though 350,000 of them are going to be working without pay, the others are going to be furloughed, and it damages the
economy. back in 2013 the damage was almost $25 billion to the economy, and so this really does have a significant impact. >> with our thanks again to ron ensana, both of our guests have agreed to stay with us over the break. when we come back, we're going to show you how the president is changing the terms of the argument on the fly. again, our shutdown is about 32 minutes away. 'tand in your garage,son a brand new john deere.
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we are back. our guests remain with us, donna edwards and david jolly both former members of congress, and i wanted to share with our audience what we have seen and heard from our president today and tonight. first on twitter he put out this imagery of what it is he's actually thinking of opt border along with a customs and border patrol vehicle there in the foreground, and you see the picture of the pointy things at the top of those slats or posts in the fence. then tonight the white house issued this video. it is in effect a propaganda video. the president was not available to reporters or questions today, but increasingly they're putting out these videos often from the rose garden. this one was recorded indoors, though he is speaking in a semi shout, and in addition to the menacing looking video of menacing looking people looking
like they're trying to break into our country, you'll hear the changing definition of this barrier he's fighting for on our southern border. >> it's very dangerous out there, drugs are pouring in. human trafficking, so many different problems including gangs like ms-13. we don't want them in the united states. we don't want them in our country. the only thing that's going to stop that is great border security. with a wall or a slat fence or whatever you want to call it. >> so david jolly, build that slat fence i guess not as effective a chant at rallies and wait until you see the blooper people of various people in my line of work trying to say slat fence quickly this weekend into next. what do you make of it? >> here's what he's doing, the definition matters because what the senate agreed to with the additional 1.6 billion says the wall has to be consistent with the historical designs of a pedestrian barrier.
in other words, these fantasy walls that the president likes to showcase don't qualify under the senate language, so he's actually pivoting and giving in to the senate definition. the opportunity that's being missed right now and frankly for republicans to show they can stand up to the president is this. the only dispute right now is over the homeland security budget. what you read at the top of the hour is correct, they've already reached an agreement on agriculture, on commerce, on state, on justice, on transportation, on housing and urban development. the house and senate could pass those by voice vote right now, give them to the president. this partial shutdown would drop to less than 5% of the government. all of donna's former constituents could keep going to work, but the president is using this just to play a game over a wall that he promised, but the facts aren't there to support what the argument he's making. >> of course donna, people were already tweeting tonight just asking how wide are drugs and the implication being that a slat fence, of course, is not
the impenetrable wall he campaigned on. >> that's true. look, i'm just so tired i think as many americans are of the president and this fantasy of a wall. i mean, the fact is that the president's party, the republican party controls the white house, the house, and the senate. the president has been offered $1.6 billion to use for his slat fence or wall or whatever it is that he wants to call it. he's refused to take that, and the reality is that he is not going to get any more today than he's going to get in january, than he's going to get in february, and so he may as well just take the deal that's on the table, pass the senate bill, sign it into law, keep the government open because otherwise it's just as he said. he owns the shutdown. he's proud of owning this shutdown, and it's going to carry, you know, federal workers and others who rely on federal services, put them in a lunrch right at the holiday season.
this is so reprehensible. let's get on with the semantics and get this done for the american people. again, they controlled the house, the senate, and the white house. they should put the votes together, put the bill on the floor, and get it done so that people can enjoy their holidays. >> on the friday night before christmas, our thanks to both former members of congress, donna edwards, david jolly. we really appreciate you coming on tonight. coming up for us, it's been another one of those weeks when it's tough to follow all the new legal twists involving the trump family and things like the mueller investigation. we'll get you back up to speed when we come back. to speed when we come back. began to appear. these techs in a lab. this builder in a hardhat... ...the welders and electricians who do all of that. the diner staffed up 'cause they all needed lunch. teachers... doctors... jobs grew a bunch.
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charges against roger stone who, as you mentioned, is such a significant figure in the history of donald trump. >> matt whitaker today stands on a conflict of interest cliff. he has a choice to make. >> just a reminder all the things you just saw were from this week, a pivotal week for the many legal challenges involving and facing this president, his family, and associates. there were major developments on a number of fronts. michael flynn, he was supposed to be sentenced but instead, a federal judge went after him for what he's done, urged him to cooperate further with the feds, and now flynn has to hope he doesn't get jail time at his now postponed sentencing in march. the president was forced to shut down the charitable foundation in his name, which is being sued by new york's attorney general. the house intel committee this week voted to turn roger stone's official testimony over to the special counsel's investigation.
we learned that last summer trump's nominee for attorney general, william barr wrote an unsolicited and an unusual memo to the justice department criticizing mueller's investigation. another mueller critic, the acting attorney general matt whitaker has decided not to take hills out of the investigation. and nbc news has reported mueller is nearing the end of his inquiry and may submit his report by mid-february. here with us tonight to talk about all of it josh gerstein, senior legal affairs contributor for "politico" and glenn kirschner, a former federal prosecutor who has worked with among others one robert mueller. all right, josh. is it too soon, do you have any perspective to be able to give us a damage assessment thus far this week? we've got after all, 20 minutes left in it. >> well, it was a sort of head spinning series of developments that came fast and furious
throughout the week and really seemed to drive the president into a tweeting frenzy and certainly coupled with all these other things going on involving the government shutdown and the reaction to his comments on syria, you can only imagine why we started hearing these phrases about the president being in a tail spin. i think it wasn't just one issue, it was this put together with all of these other things. and i think, you know, in terms of going forward in the next couple of months, what you mentioned about bill barr's memo i think could be very problematic for his nomination to be attorney general. i mean, it leaves me wondering are there 53 votes next year in the senate to confirm this man given the, you know, extreme skepticism and this sort of jihad if you will he seemed to go on against mueller's investigation. will republicans just line up and vote for this man despite that, and how do you address
that at hearings? i really have my doubts about what his prospects are for confirmation in the wake of this memo being released. >> i'm told further it's just very unusual to receive an unsolicited memo if you're the justice department. glen, i want to read you this reporting. this is by cnn tonight citing multiple sources. we at nbc have not confirmed this, but i'll read it to you. trump has at least twice in the past few weeks vented to his acting attorney general angered by federal prosecutors who referenced the president's actions in crimes, his former lawyer michael cohen pleaded guilty to, pointing to articles he said supported his position, trump pressed whitaker on why more wasn't being done to control prosecutors in new york suggesting they were going rogue. giuliani could not confirm the conversations with whitaker but says the president views the southern district of new york prosecutors as out of control. glen, a reminder for our
viewers, we have an attorney general who has not been confirmed but the u.s. senate. isn't reading this sort of thing going to get whitaker -- i know he is a fed -- but a visit from the feds? >> you know, brian, on the one hand this is really a remarkable development, and on the other hand it is par for the course. when you look at the long list of potentially obstructionist acts by the president starting with him asking comey to lay off flynn, arguably an obstructionist act, then firing comey for not laying off flynn, arguably another obstructionist act. then his incessant complaints about attorney general sessions not sufficiently shielding him from these investigations. if not an obstructionist act, certainly a look inside the mind of donald trump as to what his intent is when he's taking all these other acts self-preservation. then you have him firing attorney general sessions and installing what can only be called a lackey in matthew
whitaker as you say not confirmed, and now as if all of that isn't enough, he's lashing out at whitaker for not reining in the southern district of new york prosecutors with respect to letting michael cohen plead guilty to campaign finance violations that implicate. the president. you know, nobody can accuse the president of learning from his mistakes. it is -- you know, i think you can describe this as sort of an obstruction jamboree by president trump, and all of this, i think, is going to be of keen interest to robert mueller who it sounds like is anxious to issue his report and perhaps drop additional indictments, but he needs to catch his breath and catch up with the ongoing potentially criminal activities of this president. >> josh, i've heard a lot of lawyers on television trying to be polite saying of whitaker his
legal pedigree would not have landed this job in an organic search for the next attorney general. so in plain english, is this kind of story that cnn is running tonight the reason whittaker is in the job to kind of complete glen's point? >> yeah, i think it is. i mean, clearly sills were sent behind the scenes that he was going to be very amenable and potentially malleable to the interests of this president, and it dovetails with the issue of the memo to barr. a memo from barr. the president's lawyers had that memo, so people in the president's inner circle were well aware that barr had these views and had not just had the views and mentioned it to somebody over coffee or something like that, but had gone out of his way to express them to folks at the justice department. so it does appear that there's some kind of litmus at the time test the president is using here for people he's going to select for these roles at the justice department. it does seem, though, to me
that, you know, what he's looking for in these officials may be the opposite of what at least some folks in the senate would be looking for in these officials, and i do think that that will come to a head sometime in the next few months. >> glen, this nbc news reporting came out yesterday. saying that mueller was likely to have a report ready by february. we had someone you know on the broadcast last night, cynthia oxney who said no way, no how. recipient ya she said there's way too much work to be done. a, do you believe the reporting, do you concur? and b, is there a possibility -- i guess nothing constrains him from writing some sort of interim report? >> brian, having prosecuted with cynthia back in the '90s i'm loathe to disagree with anything she says. here's my take on that. i know that ken dilanian and pete williams and some others had reported that all of a
sudden gofvernment officials ar being told to brace for a possible mueller report being issued as early as mid-february. i think if there is a report that's going to drop in february, let's not confuse that with additional indictments that are also likely to drop. the two are not mutually exclusive. i think we have been awaiting a roger stone, jerome corsi indictment for quite some time, and you know, the more i see of bob mueller's investigation, it's sort of the classic bottom up investigation where he's building that pyramid, and he has had the -- you know, the flynns and the manaforts, the papadopoulos es and the van der swans, and others cohen plead guilty as he worked his way up the pyramid. there is still the top of the pyramid, the president himself, his son, his son-in-law, kushner. so i think if mueller is preparing to issue a report, it may coincide with additional
indictments that he drops. and you know, the big ticket question is does the president become an indicted co-conspirator in a conspiracy indictment, an unindicted co-conspirator, does he not make an appearance at all and is only the assumption subject of a rep ultimately will be released to congress. it really is anybody's guess. i think we were all so surprised by this mid-february prediction. if the reporting is accurate, you know, we could see something sooner rather than later. >> those are some potent possibilities you mention there. gentlemen, we needed updating on all of this tonight, and you succeeded. our thanks to josh gerstein, to glenn kirschner. really appreciate it. another break for us. the clock says we're just about ten minutes away from the latest abject failure of political leadership as we count down to this partial shutdown. we'll go back live to capitol hill and the latest from the white house on what is transpiring or what's not happening at this hour.
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we're back with minutes to go until this partial government shutdown. you see the clock in the corner of the screen. let's go back to capitol hill. garrett, about lawmakers over the next 24, 48, 90 hours, it's always been true, it's not fair. if you're a senator from maryland, you can be home every night. brian shatz, he had flown home already for the christmas break, posted a picture of his 17-minute visit with his wife and two children, got back on a plane to come to washington. are they all now in suspended animation? can they leave? >> consider that the ultimate end of the year mileage run, going home to hawaii, then turning back to d.c.
the senators were told they could hit the road tonight, they would get as much as 24 hours' notice before they come back. and tomorrow, we expect attendance to be light. but especially in the senate, they felt a little bit burned by the president. they had passed this continuing resolution by a voice vote. they had been assured by the vice president that it would be backed, but now i'm told they will not be brought back unless there's deal the president will back, that everything is assured, and there will be a vote. there's just no trust left, and a lot of miles for some of these western senators. we broke the record for the longest vote ever in the united states senate, just by a couple of minutes. in parts of some of these
western state senators, they could get back just in time to give the thumbs-down and vote this thing down. >> unbelievable, your democracy at work. garrett, thank you. for some historical perspective, our nation turns its lonely eyes to author and historian, john meachum. books will be written about this period. it's been a couple of weeks since your last one. write me the first paragraph on what we're witnessing now. >> well, i think, to go high dork, since it's friday, walter bad bad badgett wrote a very important on the english constitution, defined government in two ways. he said there are two functions, the dignified element, and the efficient element.
dignity is the monarchy in britain, and efficiency is the parliament. and here, we have the presidency and the system as madison and the framers put it together. where we are at the moment, we're at a remarkably chaotic five, six-day period, we know the dignified part is not there in this era. in this point, the efficiency part is also collapsing. between the stock market, the wi wi withdrawal from syria, we have a confluence of forces that i think are going to create enduring political problems for the president. because he has been propped up, in many ways, by this odd combination of conservative populism and the enabling of
prosperity-minded upper middle class and middle class americans whom i sometimes think of 401(k) trump supporters. as they begin to look at those numbers at the end of the year, they begin to see a falloff, they're going to reassess the support for this remarkably unconventional man and his remarkably inefficient era. >> what has this week done to the study of the presidency and presidential leadership, specifically? >> character is destiny, we know that. we know that lyndon johnson was able to do things because of who he was, franklin roosevelt, ronald reagan, the same thing. president trump, when we talk about the presidency, we'll talk about the role of the personal on the political. what you've seen here, in about two minutes or less at this
point, the government of the united states is going to partially shut down because we have a president of the united states who has a personal ideological commitment to a border wall, and he's unable or unwilling to use that as traditional bargaining leverage to get some kind of a traditional immigration deal. this is driving the rest of the system into the ditch. and so, when we talk about the presidency, when we talk about the nature of political power in the country, we always have to go back to the character of the person we send to the pinnacle of power. and this is another exhibit of how his character is not commensurate with the challenges of the office. >> in 30 seconds of brilliance, anything to compare these videos to that he's issuing from inside
the white house, containing kind of a propaganda video within them? >> no, not really. we had an office of war information during world war ii, we have certainly trafficked in telling the national story. but that's the difference. we have told the national story before. this is not about the nation, this is about him. he doesn't see us as a country. he sees us as an audience, and sees himself as the entertainer in chief. and i think the show is wearing incredibly thin. >> john, with us tonight to offer some historical perspective. we've been watching the clock in the corner of the screen. john, thank you for letting us now your view of exactly where this leaves us in terms of history. to our audience for this hour, thank you for being here with us. we are live here at nbc news
headquarte headquarters, and our coverage will span over the top of the hour, because the top of the hour brings us the partial government shutdown, both sides of the leadership unable to reach a solution earlier today. so, we'll be back in just a moment with that. and thank you for being here with us. we're live from nbc news headquarters in new york. we'll join the rachel maddow program shortly. we're just past midnight on the east coast, we're at the start of the third government shutdown of this presidency. with nothing to stop it, it's now official, a partial shutdown of the federal government, a memo came out of the federal government warning this. hundreds of thousands of federal government workers are now officially facing