tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC January 7, 2019 5:00pm-6:00pm PST
the blame. donald trump ironically has taught us how to president should behave or not. the challenge for the democrats is to find the person who can better carry out the high responsibilities of the american presidency in a way that is convincing to the voters next year in november. that's "hardball" for now. all in with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in". >> they say the wall is immoral. then you better to something about the vatican. >> the president paints himself into a corner. >> a barrier to people pouring in. >> the white house doesn't even know what they are asking for as the pain for federal workers grows. then democrats say they will make transcripts available to robert mueller, but what about the public? i'll ask the congressman. plus elizabeth warren kicks off 2020 in iowa. >> i think what our 2020 issue
will be is how we talk about what we stand for. >> why what's happening on the ground is different than what you're hearing. and the aoc effect. >> the only way we are going to get out of this situation is by choosing to be courageous. >> how a new generation of democrats is fundamentally changing the policy debate. >> there was a time in this country where the top marginal tax rate was over 90%. >> "all in" starts right now. >> good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes. day 17 of the government shutdown. the president is just stuck in a corner he's painted himself into as we've watched and he doesn't know what he wants. in fact, here is the thing. no one knows what the government is being shut down over. by this, here is what i mean. we know the money, they want $5.6 billion for depending on which day it is the wall, steel slats or border security generally. here is the actual appropriation
the house passed just before the end of the year to direct public funds for the project we were promised mexico would pay for. there are no details what peak they are asking for, just the top line money. in fact, this weekend when democratic aides pressed vice president pence during negotiations asking what peak do you want to build, he gave no details. aslands graham sa lindsey graha metaphor. a pneumonic device to talk about border security. day 17, no pay to workers, tsa sickouts, federal courts run their money, food stamps for millions of people, all of this over a metaphor or a pneumonic device. the president now needs to turn to some kind of reality and is shutting the government down over. all to hide the fact he spent three jeerlyears selling this c
atrially and rally and the rose garden and now ape coulter called him on it and here we are. using donald trump schtick to make it work. he's threatening a national emergency, charging off to the border and floating the idea the vatican city has a wall so catholics should love it. from the med terms, you saw kitchen sink desperation to sell the american people on a losing argument. acting chief of staff mick mulvaney looking des you will tore and whining, the democrats aren't helping him out with the straight jacket he put himself in. >> the first line, we're not here to agree with anything, which is a stunning way to start a dpoeg a negotiation. it immediately turned to technical requests for the first time ever in these negotiations.
this is going to drag on a lot longer, and i think that's by intention. >> notice he said the democrats were asking exactly what they wanted to build. sarah huckabee on fox news, debunking a statistic about terrorist crossing the border. take a listen. >> we know that roughly nearly 4,000 known or suspected terrorist come into our country illegally, and we know that our most vulnerable point of entry is at the southern border. >> i know this statistic. i didn't know if you were going to use it but i studied up on this. do you know where they are captured? airports. >> not always. >> the state department said there hasn't been any terrorist coming across the southern bordered. >> the reality remains exactly the same. it is donald trump's shutdown. he shut down the government. the house passed a bill that can probably right now get 70 votes in the senate and open up the government. trump is refusing to sign it. he's refusing to allow it to
come to a vote in senate because apparently he's mitch mcconnell's boss. more and more senators are saying they will not vote for any bill until the government is reopened. that strategy, chris van hollen, democrat from maryland. you tweeted about this, you're basically of the opinion the senate should not be doing its normal business, going about other pieces of legislation until the government opens. why and what does that mean for your other colleagues? are they joining you? >> well, chris, we need to make a strong statement this is not business as usual. so tomorrow we should make it clear that the first order of business should be voting on the two house measures that have already been passed that have already been supported in various ways in the senate, including by republican senators, and that would reopen the government. we need to make it clear while this the trump shutdown, it's enabled by the fact mitch mcconnell and senate republicans are trying to hide out.
they have been essentially awol. they haven't been to the white house. they should not be essentially contracting out their votes as senate republicans to donald trump. and they need to join us in voting for measures to open the government. and so tomorrow that's what we will focus on. then the caucus will have to decide how to proceed. overall we're making the clear statement it cannot be business as usual. >> you're only making that statement if you get to 40 votes to block motions to proceed. if you don't have that, mitch mcconnell has about 9,000 judges coming out of every pocket in his suit he's going to try to ram through. are you going to get enough of your colleagues to basically block motions to proceed? because that really means something. >> as you know, motion to proceed on legislation requires 60 votes. you can block it with 40. a motion to proceed on judges does not require 60 votes, it requires 50. we're going to start by saying tomorrow that sb 1, senate bill
1 should be a bill to reopen the government. should be a vote on the house bills, house of representatives, new democratic majority, they made it a priority to first focus on reopening the government. we think that's what we should do. you're right. tomorrow the hope will be, and there's growing support and momentum, i think we can do it, would be to say senate bill 1 needs to be the house bills to reopen the government. let's vote on that first and send a very strong signal it should not be business as usual. the caucus will have to decide how to proceed but a strong consensus we need to accepted that message tomorrow. >> democrat chuck schumer said he will be voting that way, voting on things not reopening the government. i don't know the whip count but what is the status of negotiations? it was totally bizarre to me and tell me if i'm wrong, vice president of the united states was negotiating with democratic staff this weekend. is that weird? >> it's totally weird.
weird in two ways. one, they need to be negotiating with members. secondly, you need to have the republican senate staff there as well. this is the main point, chris. we need to turn up the heat on a lot of these purple state republican senators. a lot of them who are up in 2020. they are sort of hiding out right now just like mcconnell is not showing up at the white house or even sending some staff. >> you can't find them. i haven't seen the guy's face. >> exactly. look, you know what happened, right? he got a strong signal from the white house before christmas that president trump would support the measure to keep the government funded until february 8th. as you indicated, you had all the right wing talk show hosts go the other way and pull the rug out from under the vice president and others. and so that's obviously another huge problem, right? who do you have to negotiate with?
that's a challenge. but i think the main thing is we do need to make sure senator mcconnell and senate republicans have to be part of the solution and they can't just go run away. >> okay. i'm going to give you a sentence with a blank and ask if you can fill in the blank because i can't. the president of the united states wants $5.6 or $5.7 billion appropriated for blank. what is the answer to the question? what is the thing there? >> and that's just it. they have not specified it. look, as you know, long before donald trump was president, we had a broad strategy for border security. the issue here has never been about having secure borders. we need secure borders. we've always achieved border security through a combination of having border patrol agents, technology to detect people coming across the border and a range of other options, including barriers in some places, especially places where there are lots of people.
and what donald trump came in last year, he got his $1.3 million not for a wall, but for some of the border security. and the bill that passed the house just before christmas would have continued that same level of funding. and so they cannot really answer that question at this point in time. and all they are doing is creating a lot of pain for people throughout the country who increasingly are not getting services. i met today with a whole bunch of federal employees who are not getting paid who are now really worried about making ends meet and paying their bills. this is all for, as you've said, a metaphor, this tludelusion president trump has. >> i was hearing from a friend of mine, a u.s. attorney, doing the work every day, two paychecks is one thing, then three paychecks. folks are going to be squeezed here. >> look, we're into 17 days. it looks like it could go on for
a long time, you know, because president trump said he was proud to be shutting down the president. pointing fingers now. this is now very intentional, even as you indicate they really don't know what they want and they don't know the way out. that's why this is scary. that's why we need senate republicans to really be part of the solution and pass those house bills. >> they should get together. thank you very much. joining me senior scholar at american enterprise and democratic strategist. i want to start with you, norm, because you have written for a very long time about congress, congressional dysfunction, particularly republican parties. this strikes me as sort of a new frontier, although a continuation of some other trends. what do you think? >> it's a new low, but it is a continuation of a number of other trends. what we see is that mitch mcconnell, who could bring this to a halt, if it were an independent senate, won't do so. as you mentioned, and as chris
van hollen mentioned, you have a number of republican senators who are up in 2020 who are probably privately asking him to do something about it. but there is driven by ann coulter and "fox & friends" as donald trump is. that's a new reality in some ways that fits on a deterioration of a political party that's been going on for decades. there's another element to this. the term i've used is kakistrocacy. when you look at a shutdown where a white house had no idea what the government did, where ben carson's department of housing and urban development failed to sign a bunch of contracts that may have people evicted from their housing, where we've had people die in national parks because they didn't realize if there were no rangers there, bad things could happen, that the level of ineptitude, and a republican
congress that didn't hold a single hearing on what was going on with problems in government over the last two years and hasn't done anything to this point, this is beyond sad. it's tragic and it's outrageous. >> just to give a citation, "washington post" article about washington being surprised about the bred. the trump administration should not anticipate shutdown, recognized only the week the breadth of the impact. the officials said they were focused on understanding the scope, consequences and determining if there's anything they can do to intervene. the president said he's going to give a prime time address tomorrow night. he's asked for time on all networks, which have granted it to him, including this network. what do you think about that? >> i wish they wouldn't granite. it seems like a nothing burger. a dog and pony show around nothing. >> no new argument. >> no new news. in fact, this is just a manufactured outrage. this border insecurity quote, unquote, is all just fake news
the president and administration have made up. there's no evidence that anything that they suggest is going awry in the way it's going awry. the thing that frustrates me. >> from a security perspective. from a humanitarian perspective there's problems, two people died in custody. >> this administration is causing them. this administration is causing the humanitarian issues, which is the challenging we're not discussing. we have over 800,000 families that will not be paid for however many weeks on end. these are civil servants, people who can't afford to miss a paycheck. trying to pay rent, take care of their family, and now this shutdown in this manufactured crisis, they aren't getting paid. >> in 2014 president obama tried to address the nation on immigration and the major networks did not grant him the time as a historical note. norm, what's interesting to me is this president has a weird set of political skills, and they sometimes -- he uses them
to his benefit in a canny, wiley way. he's been making arguments about the wall for three years and has only exacerbated opposition to it. what do you -- he can't shape public opinion whether he gets a prime time address or not. >> no. we've had presidents before who have tried to exploit their basis for political advantage. richard richard nixon did it with law and order. every president saw the importance to reaching out to the larger public and building a larger coalition. he has not spent a minute trying to do that. there's a cleverness to that in the sense of self-survival. it so intimidates republicans in congress that he has 80 to 90% support from the base that they won't challenge him but it's disastrous for the country. we have to note it's not just the 800,000 federal employees. it's contractors, including people who clean the office
buildings who work by the hour who may never get paid. it's people whose lively hoods depend on having services provided. those who own stores and restaurants and the like. the reverberations are very wide and trump could care less as long as he keeps that base. >> here is the thing. they are not -- this is not an argument -- i've watched them make arguments that felt like they are winning. they are not winning this argument. when they are doing, it's just a destruction strategy. >> right. >> this is going to cause pain and we care about it less than you do. >> at this point it's all about ego. >> it's not even about the policy. >> just ego, bravado at this point. i don't think we've ever seen a president that had this much disregard for the american people, could care less about how people's lives are actually being affected. what we're seeing now is going to be an erosion of the president's base pt a lot of them these affected by the government shutdown, residuals are people who used to support him. >> the question on that, norm,
in terms of erosion is, at what point does it start to take bites out of people. interesting announcement, irs, 12% of its workers not furloughed, has to start processing refunds. people will notice if theyton get refunds. the white house directing they are going to direct irs workers to prioritize that. it's unclear if they can do that. that to me is a sign to them they are not immune from political gravity and understand that will be real bad if that goes south. >> if the airports become a major problem and air traffic controllers with the tsa people and people really begin, including business people, find they can't travel anymore, there will be pushback on that front, too. you know, i've said many times, i don't think donald trump ever read the art of the tedeal, muc less wrote it. i've never seen a president in almost 50 years of watching up close more inept at cutting deals or finding his way into deals.
he goes into boxed canyons over and over again. ego is a part of it. but ineptitude, fundamental ineptitude running anything. it's amazing, if he didn't have $200 million from his father to begin with and comers people with money that he ever got where he got. >> thank you both for your time. coming up, signs the mueller investigation has a long way to go before it wraps up. what are new house democrats going to do with their investigation? house democrats going to do with their investigation? proven to both reduce the risk of cardiovascular death for adults who have type 2 diabetes and heart disease... ...and lower a1c, with diet and exercise. jardiance can cause serious side effects including dehydration. this may cause you to feel dizzy, faint, or lightheaded, or weak upon standing. ketoacidosis is a serious side effect that may be fatal. symptoms include nausea, vomiting, stomach pain, tiredness, and trouble breathing. stop taking jardiance and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of ketoacidosis or an allergic reaction. symptoms of an allergic reaction include rash, swelling, and difficulty breathing or swallowing.
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i believe the best technology should feel effortless. like magic. at comcast, it's my job to develop, apps and tools that simplify your experience. my name is mike, i'm in product development at comcast. we're working to make things simple, easy and awesome. special counsel robert mueller's investigation looks like it has a long way to go before reaching a conclusion. the grand jury working the mueller probe set to expire over this past weekend but instead federal judge overseeing it just extended its life span by six months. by law grand jurys are conducted in total secrecy. with exception of indictments and filings mueller's work has been carried out almost entirely behind closed doors. when it's all over, there's no requirement for him to release all his findings publicly.
that means the special counsel's probe may not -- we'll see -- be able to deliver what so many have been demanding since 2016, a full, transparent and public accounting of what the president and his associates did or did not do to win office or reward those who may have helped him. with democrats in control of the house and key investigative committees they have the power for the first time to air the facts in public. the congress from california who sits on two of those key committees house intelligence and house judiciary. good evening. >> thank you, chris. >> new chair of intelligence committee had to say about releasing transcripts. take a listen. >> we hope as one of our first acts to make the transcripts of our witnesses fully available to special counsel for any purpose including the bringing of personally charges if necessary against any of the witnesses but also to see the evidence they contain and help flesh out the picture for the special counsel. >> what do you think about releasing them to the public as
well? >> i want that to happen as soon as possible, chris. so our priorities protect mueller, send evidence to mueller, and we've got a lot of evidence that the republicans would not send over to mueller, and then make sure the public understands what mueller did as soon as mueller is done. that's my priority. >> so i want to play you something else someone on my show who worked for president clinton, speechwriter, said that really clicked something into space, the need for public hearings, public investigations. take a listen purchase there has to be take case made to the public and a real tangible, visible dramatic way about what has gone wrong. i do worry about the idea that this silent g man is going to deliver the facts. all the scandals that have made history in the country, there's been a real congressional investigation. they have power and they need to use it. >> do you agree with that? >> absolutely.
we saw that with watergate, the powerful testimony from john dean that opened it to the public, as far as the public is concerned. who is benefiting from the darkness on the house investigation are the witnesses. they are all working together. we saw that in our investigation. some of them are represented -- he's got three or four people represented by the same lawyer. they are sharing stories, getting accounts straight. the only people in the dark are the american people. i think it would be -- it would really help us if we're going to protect the ballot box going forward if the american people understand what russia did, who they worked with, and what we can do to make sure it never happens again. >> i guess the question is, i talked to congressman schiff about this a few days ago, about what the plan is for how much and how in-depth a set of hearings on just these matters you've already sort of investigated, what's the plan for that? >> so there will be public hearings. i know chairmanship talked about
that. i will defer to them on who they are with and when they happen. but we wanted in the past to balance the interest of making sure witnesses weren't sharing accounts with each other and they weren't able to kind of get their stories straight. that's why there was a need to do it under ground. this has been going on for a couple of years now. i don't think you're really protecting against that much knowing mueller probably has interviewed the bulk of the witnesses. now it's time for the public to understand why this matters and what's at stake. >> you're also on house judiciary committee, i talked to the chair there, jerry nadler. about the attorney general of the united states, mr. whittaker. it's unclear whether he's willing to come for your committee. every day goes by and this individual who is being sued in three or four different lawsuits, who has been ruled not an actually principle necessitating senate confirmation is the chief law enforcement officer of the u.s. will he come before your committee? >> yes.
he cannot hide from our committee as he would have been able to if democrats hadn't won congress. presidential immunity will be over. we will subpoena him. that subpoena will be upheld in courts. he's going to have to defend his investigation and whether or not he's made promises to president trump. this is the united states. it shouldn't be adversarial for people's attorney general to come to congress and tell the american people what his priorities are and whether he can uphold a lawful investigation. do you anticipate he will try to run out the clock. obviously there's going to try to be confirmation hearings for william barr, whether he's the acting attorney general or not. do you agree? >> we're not going to let that happen. i know chairman adler is determined to get him. he may try. again, we have subpoena power and we are carrying ourselves with the confidence this is what the american people wanted to do, put the balance of power on the abuses of power. >> congressman swalwell was that
your extremely cute baby in the house. >> all credit to my wife. i held her three hours and she does it the rest of the time and get no credit. >> how old? >> ten weeks. >> that was adorable. >> i know you're the dad of young kids, too. >> it's a lot of work. >> yes. >> elizabeth warren's big campaign kickoff in iowa this weekend. what you are not hearing about what democratic voters are saying next. earing about what democratic voters are saying next. i don't keep track of regrets.
who is getting which donsers. and then there's actual honest to god press the flesh campaign that got under way this weekend when elizabeth warren addressed overflow crowds. observing the country to be bitter back and forth between online political junkies, the mood among voters was actually upbeat and enthused. he wrote, iowa voters are giddy at the prospect of a crowded field with candidates across the ideological spectrum. "new york times" columnist michelle goldberg. really good campaign reporting. tell us about the giddiness. i thought it was a good counter point to the idea of who is going to be able to beat trump? is it a new face. people are excited to have an opportunity to kick the tires. >> thank you. that's really what we're seeing from voters right now.
it's early and they understand it's going to be a long process. they want that process to have a robust discussion of ideas. they are frustrated with 2016, two rigid lanes, bitter back and forth. coming out of that, they don't want to rehash that all over again. >> one or the other. >> horror stories of caucus night and how bitter it was. this time, even though it's going to be a lot more people, we want a primary where it's policy focused. they like multiple candidates. even if i support elizabeth warren, i also kind of like cory booker or i like someone else. that makes for a much more pleasant experience. >> it's interesting the way in which this will resonate in terms of having 20 candidates, reducing the kind of acrimony because you don't have this kind of forced choice. >> also you end up having some kind of overlap and unexpected over lap. we were talking in the break about someone you interviewed whose choices are elizabeth warren and michael bloomberg. so you kind of get to see how --
i think there's a lot of people who just want to see who catches fire. >> right. >> there's -- >> they want the phenomenon, the sensation. >> there's an element to politics that's not reducible to demographics. it's not even necessarily reducible to policy or kind of checking any of the boxes. there is some sort of magic that happens when somebody gets in front of a group of people and you see how they interact. >> i thought that one of the things that came through in the clips i saw and coverage i read that warren, her announcement, national narratives about like did she stumble with dna test and was it past her time. she's quite adept at these kinds of rooms. she's good at that. that's a thing she's good at. >> there was a moment this weekend i thought, there's so much conversation about things that weren't her political skill. this weekend was a good reminder of why this was a phenomenon in the first place. this is someone who goes into the room, captures audiences,
has a clear message about how the government should work, has a record of advocating for middle class, working class people that people resonate with. so the second that she was able to get back to, that the second it was done with the washington chitchat and insider stuff she was back on her home turf and that's where she succeeds. >> there's an interesting moment you highlight in a tweet, window into democratic party base. iowa, democratic party base is white because of the demographics. here is a moment she's talking about race and class and economics. take a listen. >> what's happening to working families in this country? why is it getting harder and harder for young people to be able to build some security? why is the path getting rockier, and particularly rockier for people of color?
why is that happening in this country? >> you noted that the got -- when she talked about race, the black white race, it got huge applause. that's an important dynamic the way race gets talk about, enthusiasm white primary voters have for that. >> don't you think it has something to do with, again, people being over the two lanes that dominated in 2016 where we were also having this really bitter debate about identity versus class. i think they want somebody who can thread that needle and into to those two things holistically. i've often been really down on biocaucuses and disproportionate attention that iowa gets in this process. >> because it's not particularly representative. >> exactly. it's just like very white, unrepresentative state that everybody sort of focuses all their attention on. there is something about having a relatively small group of people that is going to put in the time to listen to kind of relatively complicated policy
proposals and adjudicate them outside of any dumb narratives coming from d.c. or new york. >> right. last data point, one of the big trends of this era is the increasing racial liberalism of democrat white voters like when they talk about race, think about are black people getting ahead or not getting ahead because of the reasons. we can see it in the data. this is from new hampshire, also a very white state. among democratic primary voters. unions, 64%, black lives matter 72% favorable. 13%. big corporations, 8%, 65 unfavorable. that's a pretty left group. >> you're going to have to see candidates black or white speak to the issues. that's not just from advocates but base -- base white voters. >> base voters who believe this is something, that needle has to be thread between not just economic populism but racial justice. >> i thought that was one of the interesting dynamics. you did a great job chronicling
it. that you for joining us. days in, alexandria ocasio-cortez setting agenda for policy debates. plus mick mulvaney on his hustle. next. n his hustle next to your goals and needs. some only call when they have something to sell. fisher calls regularly so you stay informed. and while some advisors are happy to earn commissions whether you do well or not. fisher investments fees are structured so we do better when you do better. maybe that's why most of our clients come from other money managers. fisher investments. clearly better money management.
the question isn't whether he should be impeached any more. he's the most corrupt president in american history. and we all know it. the question now is, how fast can we move past this president so we can build a more just and prosperous future? please, join the more than 6.5 million americans who are demanding action now. because there's nothing more powerful than the unified voice of the american people. together, we will make this happen. need to impeach is responsible for the content of this ad.
comes up he gives it to mick mulvaney whether he wants it or not. the former common from south carolina came on board as director of management and budget. near the end of 2017 he added a second job as director of the consumer financial protection bureau. late in 2018, mulvaney made the mistake of being in the white house on a day that trump had no one to replace john kelly, so he kept the first job, dropped the second job, and then also became trump's acting chief of staff. mulvaney reportedly insisted on that acting in the title, just in case some other great job opportunity came up, or maybe he already had his eyes on the fifth job in three years. let's do two in 60 seconds. . let's do two in 60 seconds
val, vern... i'm off to college and i'm not gonna be around... i'm worried about my parents' retirement. oh, don't worry. voya helps them to and through retirement... ...dealing with today's expenses... ...like college... ...while helping plan, invest and protect for the future. so they'll be okay... without me? um... and when we knock out this wall... imagine the closet space. yes! oh hey, son. yeah, i think they'll be fine. voya. helping you to and through retirement. >> mick mulvaney, jack-of-all-trades in the trump add manage is reportedly working on an exit plan. according to "new york times" late in 2018, mulvaney became the possibility of becoming the president of the university of south carolina. that was before he got stuck with trump's acting chief of staff job. of course he has that other job
as omb director as well. as of last week a person close to mr. mulvaney said he's still interested in the presidency of his home state university which will become open this summer. the white house is, of course, pushing back. mick mulvaney is faithfully executing the job the president asked him to do. as such he's not interested in any other positions. are you sure about that, hogan? >> i'm the acting chief of staff. i'm retaining my formal position of office of management and budget for now. 100% of my time -- >> what does for now mean? for now, there's a chance you do vacant the position? >> it's a good question. no one asked me about that before, how the president and i talked about doing this. we just decided to try it. i think the president had some ideas about how to run the position that was different than john kelly, a little different than reince priebus. he said let's try that, give it a shot for a while. i said, that's great. if you don't like it, you've
always liked omb, i can always go back to that. >> 90 day trial, 180. >> we didn't talk about that. >> your goal is to make it full time. >> make the president successful. we had a pretty good week. a couple more months, it would be great. le more months, it woud be great metastatic breast cancer is relentless, but i'm relentless too. mbc doesn't take a day off, and neither will i. i treat my mbc with everyday verzenio, the only one of its kind that can be taken every day. verzenio is the only cdk4 & 6 inhibitor approved with hormonal therapy that can be taken every day for post menopausal women with hr+, her2 negative mbc. verzenio plus an ai helped women have significantly more time without disease progression, and more than half of women saw their tumors shrink vs an ai. diarrhea is common, may be severe, or cause dehydration or infection. before taking verzenio, tell your doctor if you have fever, chills, or other signs of infection. verzenio may cause low white blood cell counts,
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our because of smoking.ital. but we still had to have a cigarette. had to. but then, we were like. what are we doing? the nicodermcq patch helps prevent your urge to smoke all day. nicodermcq. you know why, we know how. democrats tonight are demanding air time equal to what president trump receives tomorrow for his oval office
address. democratic chuck schumer and speaker nancy pelosi saying if the president's past statements are any indication, tomorrow will be full of malice and misinformation. democrats will put forward a schumer spokesperson, quote, we await the response from the networks. meanwhile republicans are tying in knots responding themselves to new freshman lawmakers democratic lawmakers alexandria ocasio-cortez. herable to command the conversation is something to behold putting policy conversations in an interesting direction. in her "60 minutes" interview, she mentioned 70 tax rate on income exceeding $10 million. somehow now there's a boisterous debate about the possibility of 70% tax rate for income exceeding $10 million. conservative hawk freaking out,
steve scalise doesn't understand how it works. nobel prize winning economist taking to the "new york times" to defend ocasio-cortez's proposal. respected economists advocating 70% tax rate. a policy no one has done except united states after world war ii, the most successful period of economic growth in history. for most of my life democrats have been in a weird defensive crouch about policy ideas unless doing things like medicare or social security which they knew were super popular. it's wild to watch this generation, ocasio-cortez, but not just her, stakes claims to ideas and set the table for debate. the aoc effect next. debate the aoc effect next. coaching means making tough choices.
>> it's a warmed over slogan. >> these policies are not only unconstitutionalalexis, you mov policy circles particularly around things like in the spear of financial reform and regulation. what is different now? it seems to me that not just the way that occortez talks about ts but how they have pushing the agenda setting stakes the way we haven't seen before. >> it's past nating representing ocasio-cortez before she was a congresswoman in may of last year that rolled back rules on wall street and basically said we don't need all of automatic monitoring on the really big banks and she called out democrats in a big way and said this is a bad idea, and she was on the same side as every single 2020 democratic primary contender, not just the elizabeth warren and bernie sanders of the world but camilla harris, all of them voted
against this package. i feel like the split in the democratic party, the workers and families or choosing the wealthy and tax breaks has been in the works for awhile and ocasio-cortez has been in the works for awhile but not the only one. those vying for a top of the ticket seen this is the way to go for awhile. >> there is politics of whose side are you on and this sort of left, right spectrum but what i find fascinating is this idea of the overton window and seem not crazy so like in the beginning, getting rid of the estate tax is crazy. why would you get rid of that going back to andrew for inherited wealth to be taxed and it worked its way into the middle of the conversation. i haven't seen democrats do that in reverse in the same way and you've been on the inside and outside in politicians fl tiiti time. what do you think? >> i haven't seen democrats do that except for last week and so
you're absolutely right this is a remarkably quick transformation and one that's been such a long time coming and by the way, it's one of the wherei reasons and i agree it's not only ocasio-cortez but a reason a lot of us are down right excited about the possibilities of opening the window and having conservations we haven't been able to have for decades. that doesn't mean anything will be legislated tomorrow or perhaps over the next couple years, but that's no reason not to open the window, set the table, and start having a conversation we should have been having a long time ago. >> do you have a theory of this? someone worked on that campaign about like big, simple, grand policy propels as opposed to sort of, you know, the high point of the clinton '90s with divided government and cards inside tvs to block bad parenting, bad content and
school uniforms. this is the opposite of that. is this a realized theory how to talk about politics? >> totally. the clinton-style democrats of that era are out of touch where democratic party voters are in 2020. a lot of the people at the top of the democratic party who are wealthier or more male than the bottom of the party, they grew up at a time of richard nixon and ronald reagan and made to be afraid of the strong democratic party ideas like the new deal on the great society and new deal l liberal and cortez, they are not part of the generation. >> i think there is something generational. part of it is the hard, it was hard, it's battle scars from getting their butts kicked. there is lots of democrats who have whether it was the mcgovern loss or bill clinton kicked out of the governor's seat of one term. there is battle scars. >> say what you want
-- millennials, the deal is catching on and people want these bold exciting new ideas and they don't want reduce the deficit balance the budget. >> chris, if i may break in there. i think part of the phenomenon of ocasico-cortez, we can't tax the wealthy because the economy will crash. the people telling you that are the people that crashed the economy the last time, right? these are folks that have come of age in crisis after crisis after crisis and so. >> right. >> but there is. >> sorry, go ahead. >> you go. >> there is something else going on here. you know, i'm old enough to remember a time when actually a lot of members of congress believed in an amply funded functional government sector that actually addressed and tried to solve the problems we
faced. it's only over the last ten, 15 years that you have a major party that feels completely and acts in completely the opposite direction. send me to washington and i'll make sure it stays broken and unfunded. interestingly, i see members hark eving back to a tax code in earlier period but to a form of government that potentially works better and what's particularly exciting is it's such a diverse crowd they are bringing to the table. >> here is the deal for example, you just mentioned it, it's great because it's simple and bold and the new deal is great and green and everyone loves green. put them together and it's sort of unclear what it means but that can be politicaled a venn dayo ---ed ed the wall was useful. the wall was useful like everyone could project their image but you have to govern and make it happen. do you think about that? >> totally. we're not at the point where we
can pass legislation on it but right now she's in the tradition of the new dealers and zifrl rig civil rights leaders trying to put together an again to to solve the economic and social crisis in the country. at the end of the day, she wants to deliver for working people and her district. >> my point, alexis and jared, you're both policy wonks. the devil is in the details. people that govern have to work out the detail the or you end up with a shutdown over a wall. >> we just made a huge investment this time last year, right? now there is a new generation saying instead of investing in millionaires and billionaires, let's invest the money to trillion dollar tax scram in a green deal. i'm as excited about jared about the new creativity. >> jared? >> look, it matter as great deal
whether your abstractive is evil. the green new deal is a progressive environmentally progressive abstraction. >> see how they get colored in. thank you-all for being here. all right. fun news tonight, i'll be on "late night" with seth myers. it's always a treat. we talked from the origin of trump's wall to what tactics democrats might deploy in 2020. fun discussion. stay up and check it out at 12:35 a.m. eastern on nbc. that's "all in" for this evening. "the rachel maddow show" starts right now. thank you for joining us. for a few weeks the local headlines have described it as a murder for hire case. in part it is. that is one very, very serious part of this case. here is how prosecutors in the eastern district of north carolina spelled out that part
of the case in just one of the criminal complaints that has been filed in association with it. they say quote, while living in the united states leonid teyf employed a live in housekeeper who came from russia. the housekeeper, her husband and their son resided with the teyfs. at some point the employment ended and likewise their son left, as well. however, in february of