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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  January 16, 2019 4:00pm-5:00pm PST

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that does it for our show in washington. i'll be back tomorrow 6:00 p.m. eastern. "hardball" is up next. not in my house. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening. house speaker nancy pelosi is taking the pain directly to president trump. just one week after trump accused the speaker of wasting his time in negotiations to end the shutdown, today the speaker suggest he the president find another time for his state of the union address. pelosi took it the extraordinary step asking him to post pone the address siting security concerns. it's the latest body blow from
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his most formidable foe as he finds himself under a cloud of questions about his relations with russia. pelosi wrote unless government reopens this week i suggest we work together to determine another suitable date after the government has reopened for this address or owill you consider delivering your state of the union address in writing in congress, january 29th. she noted they're hamstrung by the ongoing shutdown and suggested he could find another primetime venue. >> this requires hundreds of people working on the logistics and the security of. most of those people are either furloughed or victims of the president's shutdown. but the point is security. you do it from the oval office. >> the white house has not yet
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responded to pelohse a e's power play. but nielsen reported they're fully preparaed to support. and the president still signaling he's not backing down. the associated press reports conference call yesterday he told supporters we're going to stay out for a long time if we have to. be out for a long time. people are very imprszed of how well government is working with the it circumstances they're under. and his administration is now calling 50,000 furloughed workers back to work to fulfill key government tasks without pay. the ap also notes his own chief economic advisor quote told reporters the white house is doubling its estimate of the strain on the economy. the "wall street journal" reports even the president's
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advisors are concerned he's not internalizing the effects of the shutdown. some senior officials have been aiming to make clear this isn't just a message anymore. he's playing with live ammunition, meaning the econam. former dnc chair. editor and chief of "the bullwork." and an msnbc contributor. we all know nancy pelosi. toughest speaker forever i think. she is now going to the president of the united states and saying okay. game of chicken. you're not invited right now. at least not formally invited yet to give your state of the union. >> you could say she's playing hardball. because donald trump thinks that this is -- that nancy pelosi is going to buckle or her troops are going to dessert her, she's wrong.
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she's been a speaker with george w. bush. as george w bush learned, she's strategic and disciplined and speaks precisely, means what she says and this is different from his experience of the last two years. >> go ahead because i think the funny thing is trump who always has this quick impulsive reactor, here it is 7:00 on the night she made this basically declaration of war. you're not coming there give a state of the union and he's not been able to respond. >> because there's a lot of truth in what she put unwriting. the men and women of the secret service, they're under a lot of stress and not getting paid. they're protecting the president of the united states plus all the other things we know they're responsible for. >> you see the smile on my face? i'm listening to this. it's flackery and you tell me this is a political power play
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that has something to do with security? i understand why she would mask it as security. isn't she saying you're not dancing around to trash us in our own territory, right? i'm going to make you not do it. >> you know. >> you're smiling now. >> yeah. it's a security. i've been up there on capitol hill. i've watched the preparation. they're -- no. bennie thompson who's chair of the homeland security, he understands the security threat for a state of the union. he also understands the magnitude of a bringing people in. i just noticed today they're bringing in people to the agriculture department. this was the right move to make. if the president would like to put it in writing, i'm sure your fact checkers will get an opportunity before it's delivered. it was a shrewd move, the right thing to do. >> it wasn't politics.
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>> of course everything -- >> the second highest ranking republican in the house blasted speaker pelosi for essentially blasting the president. she's in fear of the truth coming out about what the president wants to do to secure the border. adding i'd encourage the president to still come. we'll find a place for him to spook. there's only one joint session of congress. it's an occasion when the congress by resolution of both houses, house and senate, invite the presidents to come in. he could go anywhere. >> mr >> mai trgs a iergs. >> no, this is not about security. it's a very shrewd muf to escalate in this particular way. and at least point the finger at the fact you have members of the
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coast guard, the bord patrol, secret surface not being paid, tsa not being paid. this is border security. donald trump has found himself trapped in the corner of his own mocking. he's basically given himself no exit and i'm guessing the greatest fear he has is what happens if the tsa agents -- >> i worry about an airplane crash. >> exactly. what if government employees who just got that zero, zeer eo, zerochuck, said i'm not working for no pay. that is the kind of thing that is going to force action in a way that political dynamic is not. >> on this game of chicken, if you will, will the president get formally invited to give the state of the union. that's up to her. you have a sense that he sends somebody to talk with her and they try to sweet talk her into -- >> that's not going to work. she loves dark chocolate but that's not going to work.
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>> but she's not going toing invite him? >> no. >> that's the deal. it's just not safe. >> no one is going to miss the state of the union. no one is actually -- but it certainly is a really dramatic escalation and way of saying what's happening now is not normal and we're not going to pretend its normal. >> she's not really a media type. she's a legislative genius and fund raising genius. but maybe she doesn't want to sit there behind the president with mike pence and hisop opus y look of his and he talks about all we have to do is build this wall and she has to go. >> i think this is more of tight thing screws. and he doesn't see an exit but he better find one. >> he can sit in the senate with mitch mcconnell.
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people are looking for mitch mcconnell. >> go to louisiana and give a speech. >> we're waiting for the saints to win a super bowl. we dont need him to throw a party. >> he calways get 10 or 20,000 people. >> this is a reminder that president is a terrible negotiator. when he walked out of that negotiation, he was acting like it was a real estate deal and he's being out maneuvered and losing in public opinion. the question is at what point do republicans in congress look at the numbers and neal kind of pressure? on the other hand we're seeing the republican support for the border wall going up and the dysfunction is really becoming intrenched in all of this. >> he's getting his numbers up. he's up to 41. could it be there's real brilliance behind nancy pelosi not inviting him?
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she could be saying if you're not willing to keep this government rolling, i'm not going to let you play head of state. i'm not going to give you all the excitement of you walk in to the congress and being cheered as the leader of our country if you're not willing to run the government. that comes with the job. >> it's a reminder it's a co equal branch of government. which it hasn't been the last two years. now it is. >> a bipartisan group of senators led by south carolina's lindsey graham planned to send a letter to the presidents to urge him to reopen the government as they work on a national security pack nl. >> i think we need to get people in the room from the democratic side and say we can do more than a dollar for the wall. i think the house position by the speaker is very unreasonable. and the best way for the president in my view to get something done is to talk with
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senate democrats and republicans. >> he's not likely to sign that letter. a aid says the president sees this as a cupitchilation and he's not going to walk away. as long as anne coulter's out there and rush limbaugh is saying if you don't build the wall, your finished. >> you can imagine you sit in a room and you can claim a win? well, rush limbaugh's got to say well, is anne coulter going to say i wimped out? so, agon this is where he's trapped himself and in some ways they've trapped themselves. >> when she said it was an immortality but it means this is where i stand. basically the ocit ocosio corte.
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>> this has become donald trump made this wall symbolic of his approach to governing, his approach to blaming immigration, his approach to all of these things. it really is a praurksy. it is a proxy for everything he has done about -- from the moment he came down that golden escalator. so for both sides it carries so much more weight than dollar amount. >> it was a campaign promise he made and he said mexico would pay for it and mexico is not going to pay for it. i don't think speaker pelosi has to come to donald trump's figure. i think she needs to continue to put those figures back on the table that democrats agree to, the compromise and say it mr. president, we all agreed to -- >> but don't spend it on the wall. >> that's right. spend it on technology, the drones and all the other stuff that they use. in every local media market
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there shows now that features these federal employees who are having bake sales, waiting at the food pantry to feed their kids. people are looking at that and saying this president can get up tomorrow morning, change his mind and go and work with leader pelosi to get this done. >> how does he escape from the rush limbaugh and anne coulter death grip? because they say if he goes to a sophisticated state-of-the-art approach, that he broke. >> one possibility is you end up with a deal fuzzy enough for him to claim victory. >> what about rush limbaugh? >> it's a problem. he agreed previously to the deal that house has once agon passed. >> how much money you need? four months into the fiscal year. >> this is one thing he's successful at. he needs wag the dog or do
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something else that changes the narrative. >> who's the boss on the right? is it limbaugh and coulter or their viewers or trump? >> this experience you saw him respond to limbaugh and coulter. >> no question anne coulter. >> it is the base. in a lot of ways they thought they were leading the base but couldn't control the fire they lit. >> it's right out of the fountain head. a rabl rouser and he was led by the rabbal. >> those are my people. >> i'm glad we have a memory of even the great books. even liberals love it. thank you. kcoming up new reporting tht mueller is interested in
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vladimir putin meetings. they have to rely on russian accounts. do you believe it? we got to go to third parties. let's talk to putin's people. they might tell us. this is "hardball" where the action is. this is "hardball" where the action is. ♪ [friend] i've never seen that before. ♪ ♪ i have... ♪
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welcome back to "hardball." the news is the president concealed his private conversations with vladimir putin from his own government landed like a bomb shell, especially after it was revealed he was investigated as a suspected russian agent. the mystery surrounding the meeting seems to have drawn attention from the special counsel, robert mueller. the president has met with putin a total of five times. in four different countries. the president went as far as to confiscate the notes from his
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own interpreter up in hamburg, germ an. and at dinner that night he had another conversation with putin without an interpreter present. they were able to see him gesturing atpute at an parent attempt to get his attention. his infamous meeting in helsinki, finland that raise the most alarm. the kremlin reported they reached important agreements. but american intelligence agencies were left to gleen details of surveillance of russians who talk about it afterwards. i'm joined by joaquin who sits on the house intelligence committee and a staff writer at "the atlanta. the "new york times" story in last weekend and the "washington post" story and the latest by the "new york times" all about the way in which our president
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has secreted his meetings with putin. >> i think it lends more creed thoons fbi's decision to open a counterintelligence investigation into whether the president is acting as an agent. i think every policy dethat he's made really needs to be examined within the context of his love for vladimir putin, his inability to criticize him unany way. his secretativeness and his desire to keep even his own staff in the dark about those conversations. this is not something that's normel for presidents, especially when you're dealing with a foreign adversary, you want your staff and administration to know what was said in case there's any misunderstandings that arise later. what we're learning intensifying during that oval office meeting he had with kislyak in which he said firing comey took great
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pressure off him. >> why wad president stie a foreign leader, even an adversary i'm glad i got rid of that guy that was looking at our relationship? >> there seems to be only one answer to that which is he now feels freer to communicate with the russians. >> if we had man churrian candidate, they would pull troops out of syria, they would pull out of nato because it took part of eastern europe away including poland and hungary. they hate nato o. it sounds like he matches up with someone working for the russians. >> i mean vladimir putin and the russian government could not have asked for a friend leer american president who has done the things that you mentioned. undermined our relationship with
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long-standing allies, aligned himself with autocrats around the world including vladimir putin, obviously. pulled out of syria, leaving it to one of the countries there, russia, to control. and he's done things substantially departed from democratic and republican presidents and undermined our standing in the world to russia's been if the. it should also be noted that donald trump started going to russia before the break up of the soviet union. of course we're far from having a conclusion or anything definitive. but you got to admit that's exactly the kind of person they would by targeting to make an asset in the united states. so we're a long way from figuring this out i think but it speaks to the urgency of getting that interpreter probably subpoenaing the interpreter and
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figuring out what was said in the meeting in helsinki. >> what do you make of his strange attraction to moscow? he wants a hotel, miss universe contest over there. he's got 100 contss in his campaign with russians. people who's hired like manafort and hangs around people like roger stone. papadopoulos. all these people with russian contacts. i don't know any russians. why does he know so many russians? i dont know howmany you happen to know. we meet mexican cans, people from canada. we don't meet a whole lot of russians. he seems to have an affinity for the east. i don't know. i'd love to know. >> i wish i could give you a more definitive answer. one of the things we try to
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figure out is whether there was any money laundering issues between the trump organization and russian oligarchs who are pumping money into president trump's businesses. but as you know devin nunes didn't issue a bankricereds, travel records, anything to help us get to the bottom of the history of russia and the organization in russia and whether they have leverage over donald trump. that's something i hope bob mueller has figured out. democrats are control of the intelligence community. we'll go about trying to figure it out as well. >> how much are you worried about the dossier given what's in the newspapers this weekend? the fbi began to think he was a mole. do you read the dossier in a new credible light? >> i think the reporting tends
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to strengthen some of the reports made in the dossier, absolutely. yeah. >> back in there g 20 summit, t first time trump met with -- hours after that call, trump and putin held these two meetings in hamburg. the details of which are still shrouded in secrecy and on his flight home the president personal personally drafted a misleading response saying the trump tower meeting was about the adoption of russian children, not promise of russian dirt on hillary clinton. coincidentally, when asked what he discussed privately with putin, trump also said he discussed russian adoption. >> while i was there i said hello to putin.
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really pleasantries more than anything else. not a long conversation. just 15 minutes. we talked about a lot of things. it was actually interesting. i talked about adoption. which is interesting because that was part of the conversation that don had. >> was he usingputen to cover for his son's meeting saying we're just talking adoption just like my son was? >> the white house did not actually confirm that this conversation happened until 10 days latter. this was not something they wanted to come out in the press. the "times" didn't really follow up on the comment he discussed adoption before that misleading statement. but now we know looking back that the timeline is extremely damming and back in august of 2017 i said hey, wait a minute the night beforhe was discussing
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all this with his son, he was talking about it with vladimir putin. this is not about adoption. that's basically code for sanctions. so they were discussing sanctions policy the night before. >> oh, i think this report from robert mueller is going to be like russian novel. all these meetings, subterfuge. it's got it all and it's all bad. anyone joaquin castro of texas. and natasha of "the atlantic." and congress rebukessonter king for some blatantly racist comments, don't you think? everybody thinks. comments, don't you think? everybody thinks and saying, "really?" so capital one is building something completely new. capital one cafes. inviting places with people here to help you, not sell you. and savings and checking accounts with no fees or minimums. because that's how it should be. you can open one from right here or anywhere
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♪ welcome back to "hardball." once a year the president gets a shot at speaking to the largest television audience as possible when he or she delivers the state of the union address. some wanted to use the captive audience to castigate law makers over it the shutdown and press his case for $5.7 billion for building hundreds of mules of border wall. house speaker suggestesting he delay his address due to security concerns due to his shutdown. in heir lettr letter she altern
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suggests he send a written. the last time was in 1912, with taft unwriting. all since have come down. mr. cliburn, i give you chance to talk about the power of your leadership. was she speaking in nonpartisan way or is this a power play to say we're not going to let you act like a head of state and get all the honors along with it? >> i think it's about preserving the institution. it's about trueing to maintain the dignity that gos with both institutions in the house and on the part of theed a min straugz. we are in a very unusual sit waugz security a big issue for
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everybody. traveling through airports, going back home on the weekends, constituents are very, var concerned about this and morale is getting var, very low. and i know this is a but unusual. but it is not unusual for us to get a state of the union in writing. unfa in fact i think roosevelt did it in 1945. he sent a message just before he passed away. so getting it in writing is not all that unusual. >> let me ask you about the ultimate call. the speaker through the joint resolution,s to the decide whether to invite this president to come up and address a joint session.
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is that with the president ornot? >> safety would not be a concern. we're still operating on a letter of invitation thatent with there again. but the resolution for both the house andsont, that's not been done yet and so i would hope we can negotiate when would be a good time for the resolution to stipulate a time and date for the state of the union to take place. >> early tonight the house moved a motion to censure republican steve king can of iowa back to committee where they will recommend action. he will be the 24th to have the house formally disprove of his conduct. he's had a long hist raory of
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making racist remarks. >> i'm looking at steve king. i want him as my partner in washington d.c. >> iowa needs steve king in congress. i also need steve king in congress. i feel i do a good job representing iowans and have so often found steve king to be an ally. >> we're thrilled to be joined bu a terrific republican leaders. iowa congressman steve king, he may be the world's most conservative human being. thank you. and i supported him long before i became politician.
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>> well, you know i think we have reached a tipping point with him. i think those accolades came in the midst of campaigns, either his on or those speakers, their campaigns. but if you look at over the lit an of things that have take place, the "new york times" just published the stuff that goes all the way back to when he was a state legislator. and for him to speak as he spoke of white spremacy, white nationalism, i think that went a bit too far and that's when i put up the resolution of duis pruvl it got all but one vote because people have reached their, i think, tipping point
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with this gentleman and i thunk rultszer time for us to for him to just find another career. >> thank you somuch. thank you. from south carolina. up next. the latest tell all book where he dishes on everybody from son in law to his former attorney general chris christie's got another book coming. what book with lots of trash talk in it. t book with lots of talk in it
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we're going to deliver. you know we have the greatest business people in the world. we don't use them. we're going to use our smartest and best. woor are rr not using plut political hacks.
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we have to get our absolutebust. >> that was then candidate donald trump declaring he would on only hire the best people. in a new book christie who can was fewered as trump's transition team writes that he was a revolving door of weaklings, convicted and unconvukted felons who were hustled into jobs thaw weren't suited for stums without a background check via google or wikipedia. he said they side checked our best efforts and focuses on
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trump's son in law -- and saying -- it was christie who sent kushner's father to prison. a republican strategist for american progress and white house bureau chief for the "washington post." this is one juicy cant lope or whatever. christie, who is i thought friends with trump, is dishing about the worst attitudes most people have about thissed a mun stragz. not even single a baseball players and of course nepotism. >> it's my understanding is that who's complimentary about trump, it's the people around trump. as you said he was are placed as head of the transition >> by jared kushner. >> actually by mike pence. we don't know if maybe he wasn't using google.
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if he says he wasn't,en the he wasn't. i don't know what the question -- >> there are a lot of third-rate hacks. >> it's not this administration. a lot of qualified people frankly don't want to uproot their family and come to washington d.c. these days where it's an incredibly hostile situation. >> the line of democratic people to get back into power is long. >> i what was interesting was the line unconvicted felons. i think it's fascinating that chris christie who claims to be friends with the president of the united states says that he has unconvicted felons who work for him. >> do you think this was helpful to the president? >> no. >> if he's a friend, why would
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he do something not helpful? >> maybe who's telling the truth. >> do you think mob a this has sthung to do with hawking books for money? >> what's happening here? he does have great people there or -- >> like any administration in recent history you have some really good people and some poor people. a mike pompeo ois fabulous. i'm sure you can find other people. >> so you're saying he'll get to that later. >> i thunk who's decided he's never getting a job in theed a mun stragz. >> i think maybe he's just telling the truth. >> is this just another rats rat out story? >> it would have been a bugger story had he taken the white house chief of staff job when he was talking to president trump about it. >> awkward.
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meanwhile president's lawyer fixer, cohen, will testify in about three weeks. he's lukely to be restricted regarding ongoing russian investigation but he will face a barrage of kwquestions. he plans to describe his former boss, donald j. trump, as a madman and suggestests his testimony will give you chills. chuls. chills. >> i think we see a madman every daw. so i look forward to the testimony. i think it's important for all of us to see that. >> how many women has he covered for? >> are you asking? >> apparently he's going to ask for names. >> the fact the president's lawyer, his lawyer is in so much
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legal hot water is a terrible find. >> wide open question from committee member. giver give me all the gross things he called you at midnight over about women. >> they can ask about the women, russia, they can ask about any number other things. business dealings, judgment -- >> how about not paying bills? >> other people he paid off. i mean we know of certain things from the investigation. this can be open ended. do you know of any illegal activity by the president at all? where are you getting it's unlimited? >> they're having negotiations about what he can talk about and not. >> anything outside of the
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russia investigation -- >> democrat saying how exuded they are to have him tell the truth because he didn't the first time. >> i'm -- who's an arresting personality. you look at the guy. he does look like tony curtis and who's like this look. most guy dooz the perp walk like this. it's something else. a warning. this video we're about to show is graphic and includes. i've never seen it explode like this on real people. one was a department of defense civilian. the next was contractor supporteding the doj. and an hour after vice president mike pence however gave speech where he discussed isis but
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never mentioned the attack on americans or the fact that four were killed. >> thanks to the leadership of this commander and chief and the courage and sacrifice of our armed forces, we're now actually able to hand off the fight of isis in syria to our coalition partners and year bringing our troops home. the caliphate has crumbled and isis has been defeated. >> sometimes you have to throw away the speech that was acknowledged what happened. a lot of people were killed. isis did it and they clearly did. >> clearly isis has not been defeated as we just saw in the horrible video. but to the vice president's credit, they have issued a statement about those killings. the white house put out some words. so they're not entirely ignoring it, even though the vice president did in his speech.
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>> why would have a guy gave speech saying we won the battle? >> they do pay attention to the news so they probably should have changed their remarks but more important i think the problem we have is this is a terrible, terrible tragedy. but the problem is there's a chaotic policy. he said one thing, his administration walked it back. our allies in the region think our policy is chaotic. >> the president or john bolton? >> at this moment i think we can honestly say we have no yd. >> look, it would be great if all of you had watched the entire video when mike pence said also there's still work to do. >> did he say isis has been defeated? >> well, look. all their land has almost been taken. they have been terribly destroyed. there's still nazi sympathizers.
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loans and that they don't watch regular tv. >> richard burr rr chair of the senate intell committee voted with donald trump against essentially the russia investigation by voting against sanctions. people have said he's not a partisan actor. >> we could be headed towards a tumultuous period in the white house. there's white aid no longer there but he worked in the communications department. he also has a tell-all book. i heard it will be interesting and create tur moil in the administration. >> when we return, let me funnish with the exciting 2020 match up of ideas and courage to take on trump and lead the country. trump and lead the country. innish with the excitin match up of ideas and courage to take on trump and lead the country. s and courage to take on trump and lead the country.
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before discovering nexium 24hr to treat her frequent heartburn, marie could only imagine enjoying freshly squeezed orange juice. now no fruit is forbidden. nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts for all-day, all-night protection. can you imagine 24 hours without heartburn?
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let me finish tonight with a 2020 race. i've just looked at the candidates that are standing at the side wondering what the water temperature is. let's remind us how 2016 left
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the clintons bitter. bernie people were furious about, among upother things, ho the debates with hillary hap be scheduled during football games. the nastiness and bitterness could set in early. competing for a limited number of caucus goers in iowa, they oknow a vote for elizabeth warren may have been lost by brown, and one for o'rourke could have gone to anyone else. this means year going to see a lot of social media, digital noise aimed at terriing down a rival candidate within the community of democratic activists. it probably does no good telling them they fight clean and they keep their shots above the belt.
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but wouldn't it be good to watch an exciting match of ideas, character and courage to see who has the stuff to take on trump and truly lead this country? and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> i am proud to shut down the government. >> 26 days into the shutdown. >> i will be the one to shut it down. >> nancy pelosi tells him he's not welcome in the house. >> this is a house keeping matter. >> he's not in the cloak room, not in the floor of the senate and 800,000 people don't have their paycheck. so where's mitch? >> plus the president's pick for attorney general caught peddling debunked security theories. sont republicans are standing with the president in rolling back russian sanctions.


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