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tv   The Beat With Ari Melber  MSNBC  January 25, 2019 3:00pm-4:00pm PST

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to having government workers. >> guess what, folks? government is complicated. you can't run it like a business. thank you. that's all for tonight. we'll be back with more on monday. we'll see you then. next is ari melber, take it away. >> an historic day in the mueller probe and the trump era. this story began with an early morning raid and arrest of his longest serving aide for obstruction and tampering to get clinton's e-mails. serious charges. unlike every other trump associate indicted by mueller, stone wasn't quiet. he came out to defiantly address the charges against him, claiming his innocence and this scene captivated the nation. donald trump took this day to
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cave on the shutdown, agreeing to reopen the government without a single dollar for the wall. we'll go through it with experts. the stone indictment is not like any, any we have seen thus far. roger stone isn't like any of the other people involved and bob mueller knows it. he has his reasons for pressing forward with what appears to be public. stone posted his bond. channelling his old boss, richard nixon, waving his arms in front of the courthouse. that's the kind of spectacle mueller expects with a confident that tattoos nixon's face on his back. declaring loyalty to trump and fit in an apparent pardon pun for good measure. >> you think the president will pardon you? >> pardon me? >> if you are convicted, do you think the president will pardon
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you? >> the only person i advocated a pardon for is marcus. i am one of his oldest friends. i'm a supporter of the president. >> how much? consider the chair of donald trump's campaign, paul manafort, a former business manager of roger stone, has never spoken after his ensbitment, let alone praise trump on the court steps. manafort was back in court quietly. they tell a different story of anyone else charged by mueller. stone has seven counts on obstruction, lying, and witness tampering. the things he lied about and tried to obstruct and keep other witnesses from talking about tell a very powerful story. it's one that bob mueller wants you to know tonight. unlike any trump associate, the lies relate directly to e-mails that mueller says the russians stole. let me show you why this
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matters. the other indicted and guilty trump aides face charges that are serious, but not related to the leaked e-mails. others were accused of crimes related to stealing and distributing the leaked clinton e-mailless. here, now tonight, mueller charging stone for crimes, this is important, you see it up here, related directly to those leaked e-mails. indictment spells it out. june and july, 2016, stone telling senior trump campaign officials he had official that wikileaks had the documents and the release would be damaging to the clinton campaign. he started stealing dnc e-mails. for the first time i can report this to you, according to bob mueller, a senior official was directed, i repeat, was directed to contact roger stone about
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additional releases and damaging information wikileaks had on clinton. we don't know who that campaign official is. we don't know who was powerful enough to direct them to contact stone. mueller may certainly know, but doesn't say. i can report for you that stone, thereafter, told the trump campaign about potential future releases of damaging material by wikileaks. that looks bad. the narrative there, if you want to understand what we are hearing from bob mueller and what is famously called a speaken indictment is stone lied about efforts to get stolen e-mails from the russians and the trump campaign was in the loop. that's the bad news for them. now, what's the other news you need to know? fairly, mueller is not in this indictment, a former election conspiracy and not acknowledging trump himself. that could ultimately benefit
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donald trump or the campaign officials or the white house. for the first time, bob mueller is alleging, i can't repeat it enough, if you remember one thing from our reporting tonight, bob mueller is alleging today, the trump campaign is in the look to get dirt from hillary clinton on wikileaks that went back to russia. someone is directing officials about staying in that loop. wow! all of this is the kind of thing that a white house which we reported and document lies a lot. the folks who do a lot of lying had to shift today on how they describe this from no collusion to one that involved the president. >> you have the campaign chair who will appear in court today. you have michael cohen, a political adviser and someone who worked in the trump organization, you have gates and roger stone. >> under indictment on businesses that had nothing to
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do with the president. let me make clear, john, the president did nothing wrong. there was no collusion on his part. >> the end of that statement, there was no collusion on his part. not there was no collusion, anymore. apparently, they are done with that. there was no collusion on his part. tonight, i can tell you, that may be the most suspicious denial we have heard, yet, from the trump white house. we have a special panel to get into this. a former associate of roger stone and trump campaign aide saying someone interviewed by the mueller probe, we talked to you on "the beat" what they asked. joe winebanks is here with me. bill kris tocrystal, now the di and seth waxman. jill, very significant indictment, what jumps out to
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you? >> so many things. the first is how detailed the e-mails are on what was said and how foolish it was for roger stone to lie about them. he had to know he created those e-mails and received those e-mails, yet he went and lied to congress saying i have no e-mails that connect me to russia. there are none. he denied all of those thing that is are right in fronlt of our eyes now in this indictment. you can't read it and not conclude he is guilty of those crimes when they lied about them. the most horrible thing to me is a dog lover and his attempt to intimidate the witness by saying, i'm taking your dog. >> we interviewed randy and who was, according to mueller, they look at that as serious tampering to intimidate him out of truthful testimony with regard to criminal exposure to the trump campaign. what passage to you is most significant in this indictment?
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>> the passage that says a senior official pressured roger to do something. that was it. the direction of someone above that senior official that they did it. so, who is that person that is referred to in paragraph 12? that has to have been possibly the president. possibly jared kushner. possibly don jr. they could have been high enough to be above a circle. >> as a prosecutor, not everything is charged as a crime. do you view this as an indictment about activities full stop or obstruction with the implication of attempted collusion. >> i think it's the latter, for certain. this is obviously on its face obstruction and indictment. the mandate is the collusion between the russians and the campaign to influence the election. if we suppose there was a quit
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proquo and dirt on hillary clinton and the promise to reduce sanctions, the way prosecutors look at this is this is additional and furtherance of it. the trump team and others distanced themselves and didn't want their fingerprints on it. that's the way prosecutors look at this. it could be evidence of conscious guilt. they have the ability to send out e-mails and trump or a colleague could have called them and said why not get it out into the public. that could be consciousness of guilt or a con speernsy. >> i wonder what you think of the passage that mueller includes and emphasizes that stone wasn't just gossiping or
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making big, random requests. here on page seven, what struck me as so damming is mueller including that stone was explicitly trying to find certain e-mails on clinton, dating back to 2011, asked for that to be relayed as a question, like a document search to assange, a person to pass that on. it was bccing to make it real. why do you think that is in there? that's not something he needs to prove tampering. >> it doesn't. it shows proactive affirm nation. acts that are taken to facilitate a potential underlying crime. because it's done at the campaign -- >> you are talking conspiracy? >> correct. this is conspiracy law. that's right. under conspiracy law, the action doesn't have to take place to be
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criminal. it may have been but the effort to undertake wrong doing like this is wrong in and of itself. >> bill, i hope you forgive theage gi, but on "the beat," you have been like a father. i ask for those in the audience and those who relied to us in that role, are we there yet? >> no. he needs to see the full scope of the conspiracy. we have come a long way. you put it well in the beginning. the trump campaign was in the loop through stone. that seems to be alleged and pretty well established by the documents. is it plausible donald trump didn't direct this or wasn't knowledgeable about the direction of the effort to get stone to find out more about the documents? that seems implausible to me. i'm going to assert that donald trump is in the loop on the effort to get the russians to
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help his election prospects by releasing the e-mails. whether trump was enough in the loop to be legally liable, i defer. we don't know. i defer the lawyers about exactly what the criminal liability would be. on a political sense, a broader sense of politics, i think we know that donald trump was happy to have russian help and in the campaign and knew that people beneath him, very likely knew that people beneath him were in touch directly or indirectly with agents of russia to help the least, whether to release the illegally obtained e-mails. >> sam? >> it's a difficult day for a lot of us around trump. they are going closer and closer. they have roger, michael cohen, manafort, allen in the southern district not represented by the trump legal counsel.
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it's something where you can see, along with the political, i tell you this as a republican, this deal the president accepted today, pretty powerless situation. it's a situation many of us wanted him to avoid. that's why we were trying to get him to run. >> can i add one thing? >> i'm going to bring you back. one thing while i'm with sam. does it look like the noose is tightening around the key leadership in the trump campaign? >> i had to follow this closely. i discussed with you often. you can see the narrative. every indictment is closer and closer. i assume through that, i don't want to discuss the grand jury testimony, but discuss questioning. they have a narrative. they have a way. we are here with the watergate prosecutor. it looks like you are getting to watergate here. >> did you know roger stone was making such explicit searches
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and seeking assange to try to nail clinton in that way? >> no. no, i did not. >> now that you know that, does it make it look to you like your former mentor was trying to collude? >> i think he was. i don't think he did. as i said, i think he conspired against himself. would he have? look, i can't speak for him. maybe he would have. once again, i don't believe that he did. however, that does not -- >> you believe tonight, this adds to the evidence of attempted collusion? >> i believe when you look at the indictments, yes. we have gone from russians, russian military to campaign people. now we have direct contact. >> bill? >> very close there. >> one point jill made, it makes it crazy for stone to lie to congress on something that was so obviously discoverable and proven that he lied. what if the strategy was, it's a
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delay, then to admit everything early on. if you can delay it out a year and delay in court, you end up dragging it through the first term and get pardoned. i think stone's not a fool. manafort's not a fool. they may get bad legal advice at times. i think they are acting to drag it out as much as they can. they are hoping there isn't an impeachable moment here for president trump and trump makes it through the first term, gets elected or doesn't get re-elected. trump is central to the manafort and stone -- >> your analysis there, you followed closely, bill, goes to the way manafort is accused of continuing to help donald trump after he claimed, under oath, he was going to cooperate and flip. sam, you look at the way the special counsel did that
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dramatic raid, i'm going to explain why they think it was lawfully necessary. the disclosure of the indictment and the public record prior to arrest would have increased the risk the defendant, roger stone, would flee and destroy or tamper with evidence. do you think that was a credible concern of theirs? >> i don't believe so. >> you don't think roger would run? >> i don't think roger -- i don't believe roger would run. i'm f i'm not going to say he would obstruct. what i would say is aaron is the one in the courtroom today in florida. >> mueller prosecutor? >> mueller prosecutor and interviewed the other roger stone associates. i find what they did not include, yet, in this indictment is somebody who is skeptical of a circumstantial message. >> what did they not include that they could have?
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>> who stone spoke to in the campaign. they have not named the names. of course, they have not said whether or not he directly had contact, nor do i know if he did. >> you are not saying you know. you know how it worked. roger stone was your mentor. >> i'm saying -- >> hold on, i'll let you finish. your reading is they may identify and make actions against that small number of potential people in the future? >> i think they are making a case that we haven't got to the transition, yet. we haven't got to trump tower and moscow and meeting with russian bankers and kushner. i think this is coming to a fold. >> jill, you listen to an individual, as i say, linked to stone and trump, saying that. what does it say to you? >> listening to sam, number one, why wasn't conspiracy included? there could have been a general conspiracy included. in terms of the destruction of
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evidence, i think that you needed the fbi to go in unannounced because destruction of evidence. he might not flee. he may enjoy the attention he is getting. but, he's charming. he would not be above destroying the evidence. >> right. >> he knew there was evidence. you have to go in there without saying i'm coming in tomorrow. >> right. we are going to bring in a member of the house intelligence. sam, thank you for coming on "the beat" on this breaking news day. many of the charges stone is facing relate to his testimony before this house intelligence committee in september, 2017. >> i am falsely accused of maki making false statements during my testimony to the house intelligence committee. that is incorrect. any error i made in my testimony would be both immaterial and without intent. >> lock him up! >> i will plead not guilty to
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these charges. i will defeat them in court. i believe this is a politically motivated investigation. >> mueller, though, alleges stone did not make false statements but rather many false statements. this is about the documents he said hoe didn't have, the possession thereof. the source of the claims he made about wikileaks and requests he made for information from julian assange and the way he talked to his self-proclaimed identified immediateary and his communications with the trump campaign about wikileaks. stone maintains everything went well that day. >> we had a very frank exchange. i answered all of the questions. i made the case that the accusation that i knew about john podesta's e-mail hack was false. i think this was productive. >> i'm joined by congresswoman
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jackie spear. what does today's indictment say about the consequences of misleading your committee? >> i think that many of those who testified before our committee while the republicans were in power were under the impression they could say virtually anything and get away with it. we are going to see, in short order that roger stone is not the only one that lied to congress. there are consequences. it's a felony to lie to congress. we are seeing results of that in this indictment. >> your view, based on what we know to be the trigger mueller is willing to use on false statements to congress is that you have knowledge of other individuals that you think, by this standard would be charged? >> yes, i do. >> can you name any of them? >> i'm not going to? >> are there more than two? >> there may be two. >> about two? are any in the president's family?
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>> i'm not going to say. >> it's my job to ask. if you see what is laid out here, there are things they may not want them doing that may not be criminal. mueller is connecting the dots of those things. what is congress' obligation now that we are learning this. say there was attempted collusion that's not chargeable, but involved americans, trying to get foreign help on a campaign. what does congress do about that? >> one of the things we have to do about it is look at 501(c)4s. they are nonprofits that can spend up to 50% of their time and money educating on politics. they can receive untold amounts of money from foreign individuals. it's not reportable. so, i have grave concerns that the russians contributed to the nra. that's something we have to
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explore. certainly, disclosure has got to be a much more intense focus by congress so that we know precisely where money is coming to all these entities. >> i want to ask you another question that is obvious, but blaring in 2019 as we think about the congress. a majority of both houses of congress said let's keep the sanctions on the thing linked to paul manafort. when you look at stone being manafort's business partner, do you think it's time to go back and press or do you think it's a dead issue now? >> i don't think it's a dead issue. certainly, the house, in a bipartisan fashion passed a resolution saying sanctions should remain and we need to now expect the senate to take action. the relationship is
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overwhelming. there is a relationship between mr. mnuchin as well. >> on a very busy day, thank you for coming on "the beat." i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> we are going thank everyone that was here. jill comes back with me in the hour. coming up, what the indictment reveals about what mueller says are stone's crimes versus what he said in public, including what he said to me. >> you haven't had that -- >> there are none. >> and we are going to track key figures from this indictment. most is based on witnesses person one and person two. they have said a lot about roger stone on "the beat." is he trying to tamper with you as a witness? >> i'm not going to get involved in the dispute or debate with roger stone. >> he's afraid i'm going to unload on him. >> unload on him. he says he will never unload on president trump.
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we are going to get it from the film maker. i'm ari melber. you are watching "the beat" on msnbc. lber you are watching "the beat" on msnbc. every day... not just "airline purchases". think about all the double miles you could be earning... (loud) holy moley that's a lot of miles!!! shhhhh! ♪ what's in your wallet? shhhhh! got it.r pickup order? ran out of ink and i have a big meeting today and 2 boxes of twizzlers... yeah, uh...for the team... the team? gooo team.... order online pickup in an hour. hurry in and save on tax software. at office depot officemax
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tonight's bombshell news on the indictment of roger stone starts with back channel dealings in 2016. we can't understand how mueller nailed him for alleged crimes after trump's election without seeing what stone did and said during the election. we have been reporting on this
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wild tale from the start, from stone claiming allies were intermediaries to wikileaks to stone telling me he never contacted russians for trump. we have the denial on the record. you are saying you haven't? >> there are none. i have never been to russia. i have no contacts in russia. i had no contact with the representatives of the russian state or russian intelligence. i had no contacts with people who might have been a go between without my knowledge. >> that's your denial on record? >> flat denial. >> flat denial. stone's associates tell a different story, he was baracking about his access to julian assange. they linked him to a russian backed hacker. a good defense for stone was looking like it would require admitting at least he lied in the past. maybe the only question left for roger stone, if he faces
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mueller's investigators, at this point, is your best defense to tell them i lied about everything? >> there's no record mueller's team brought stone in for questioning. instead indicting him for, yes, lies, alleging he corresponded with associates to get e-mails damaging to clinton. this is key. anyone can criticize stone, but mueller needs evidence. the indictment is built on evidence from two stone associates, person one and person two, who we can identify as the mueller witnesses, jerome and randy. mueller cites the two more dumps. was that collusion? of course he told his side here on "the beat." you wrote to stone, quote, word is friend of the embassy plans two more. word is -- sounds like a reference to the word on the
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street or things you are hearing. do you typically say word is before you share a thought? >> over my entire life, when i was a child, my father said when you come up with the deductions, which are often right. you are going to have trouble getting people to believe them. >> you have him helping stone's defense, arguing it was not collusion, just attempted collusion. then corsi hurt stone, backing up what mueller charged today, allegedly that stone intended to obstruct and mislead congress. and, why did roger stone want you to lie? >> you will have to ask roger stone. i was given immunity by prosecutors to make this testimony because my lawyer did not want me held for perjury because roger used that memo in his testimony, the house intelligence committee sworn testimony. >> that's corsi saying his
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friend is doing perjury. then you have person two who stone touted about in assange. in one of his tv interviews, randy, person two, denies stone's depiction of him sharing information. the allegation for mr. stone is that you are the intermediary for assange and him. >> i had no idea things i may have said to him, but certainly did not pass information from assange to roger stone. >> today, mueller reveals e-mails that show him discussing what wikileaks might release. taking stone's request and passing it on for specific e-mails. it doesn't state if the request was acted on. mueller shows these people, the two men's relationship began to fray, charging stone threatened him to prevent him from cooperation and threatened his
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pet, stone writing he would, quote, take that dog away from you. stone is denying the charges today. the evidence was emerging in realtime. we asked him about stone's motivation for the threats. roger stone allegedly said to you, quote, i'm going to take that dog away from you. nothing you can do about it, paraphrasing. is stone trying to threaten you to change your accounts of 2016? >> he's afraid i'm going to unload on him. >> wow. we have been watching all of this. it may sound like a movie. it's deliberate. roger stone is a self-proclaims dirty trickster. stone citing the "godfather." because this is 2019, it's the second time that reference came up this week. when pundits talk about the
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"godfather," it's an analogy. when mueller puts it in an indictment, it's a crime. shoot at you actors like movie directors. this ain't a movie, dog. no. it's not. anyone still acting should know all of that by now from stone to the witness he threatened to, yes, that witness' dog. which brings us to the roger stone associates we heard from this week. russia witnesses. that includes person one and many angry with stone for the conduct charged in mueller's indictment. >> i think you are putting your old friend in danger. >> he put us all in danger. >> the fact of the matter is, the reason we are in there is because of stone. >> i get that. >> number two, roger is not donald trump. okay? he's not going to get away with
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witness tampering. he should shut up. >> he's not going to get away with witness tampering. that was a former stone associate. today, they charge stone. as for person one, i spoke to him as well today. i'll explain when we are back in 30 seconds. l datoy. i'll explain when we are back in 30 seconds ls. they work together doing important stuff. the hitch? like you, your cells get hungry. feed them... with centrum® micronutrients. restoring your awesome... daily. feed your cells with centrum® micronutrients today. every day, visionaries are creating the future. so, every day, we put our latest technology and vast expertise to work. ( ♪ ) the united states postal service makes more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. today, i talked to jerome corsi. he is indeed person one in the
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roger stone indictment. i asked about the evidence mueller has about stone in the indictment. corsi, a one-time ally of stone said if i was going into a casino and mueller said he had the evidence, i'd bet on mueller. i'm joined by morgan who was embedded by stone and jason johnson from back with us, jill winebanks. jill, what do you think when you look at the stone associates and person one and person two and how much we learned in realtime now that mueller is charging. >> i believe mueller completely. the indictment is detailed and specific. it quotes from e-mails that make a very clear and compelling case there was coordination. there was a conspiracy to get these documents. we don't know that they originally stole the documents. there's no evidence of that. there's no allegation of that. they used them.
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there's such a thing in the law as an accessory after the fact. that makes you part and guilty for having stolen them. >> jason, when you look at how much is spilling out in public view, at the very same time that stone was taking what mueller alleged are illegal, extreme measures with people he had history with. they started out together. i want to play something that was cited, basically, in today's indictment, stone urging -- well, if nothing else, plead the fifth and you don't have to say anything bad about me. that spilled out. we asked him at the time. take a look. >> you know i took the fifth. >> hold on. why take the fifth when you are a self-identified member of the media. why not say you don't want to disclose journalist sources? >> my lawyers said take the fifth. >> you did it on advice of counsel? >> yes. >> he said his lawyers told him
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to. mueller says today, stone threatened him into doing it. >> yeah, stone threatened him into it. stone is like proctor from power. he's been coordinating all of these illegal activities telling this person to lie, finding this bit of information and this contact here and there and talking to the people at the top. at some point, you are going to get busted. there's no way you can have this many deals going on and not have a written record of it. that's going to catch stone. he can beat his chest and say i'm no snitch, et cetera. when looking at manafort time or worse, he's going to flip on the president. >> stay with me. morgan is here because of the new territory we are in in the mueller investigation. it is undeniable the roger stone circus has now begun. not like any of mueller's prior
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defendants. mueller and stone have known about each other for a long time. the dirty trickster, he says he's not going down without a fight today. look at the scene after being arrested, charged and let go on bond. he swaggered to the cameras and denied it all. >> roger, did anyone tell you to contact wikileaks? >> no, i have addressed that before. ha is incorrect. >> did you, in anyway work with the russians to help president trump? >> categorically not, no. absolutely not. >> stone addressed questions about his relationship with trump. >> i am one of his oldest friends. i think he is doing a great job of making america great again. there is no circumstance, whatsoever, under which i will bear false witness against the president. >> if you are convicted, the president will pardon you?
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>> the only person is marcus. >> to get a sense of where we are heading, this whole thing kicked off with roger stone's signature catch phrase. >> the only thing i can think of worse than being talked about is not being talked about. i have always said, the only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about. >> roger stone. doesn't look like he is planning to flip on trump. look at the newest post on stone's instagram. a nice photo of him with donald trump. proud of my president #maga. someone authorized a photo of stone and who framed roger stone, not rabbit. another one saying, quote, roger stone did nothing wrong shirts. they will be used to fund his defense. back with my guest, we showed
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stone in your documentary. did you see this day coming? who is the roger stone we saw on the courthouse steps and will he fold? >> i think roger has such a reputation as a scoundrel. i think that roger has a genuine affection for trump, i have seen it many times. already bordering on true love for trump. i asked him one time if he considered trump to be one of his closest friends. he said he wasn't worthy of being trump's closest friend. he's a subordinate. >> you think his loyalty to trump is built on a type of insecurity? >> it's built on decades of friendship. the fact that trump has been a dream he had and making him into
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a president. over these many years, they fashioned a true and sincere friendship. >> on a scale of 1-10, how clear is roger in getting his message out? >> he is very astute in messaging. >> is that an eight? >> compared to whom? >> compared to trump. compared to the people on this program. compared to paul manafort. i ask you because i'm going to play more of son. bob mueller has chosen to pick a fight with someone who knows how to fight big, loud and clearly rough. that's part of the allegation. the question is, is this the end of the probe or the middle? this is quite a risk, even for as talented of a prosecution team as mueller. look at him turning it around on them today. >> at the crack of dawn, 29 fbi agents arrived at my home with
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17 vehicles with their lights flashing when they could simply have contacted my attorneys and i would have been more than willing to surrender voluntarily. they terrorized my wife, my dogs. >> that's the message, like i said, the only one to come out and speak on the steps. look at it echoing in this brawl as we take a look. >> the most embarrassingly, excessive raid on a person's house i have seen. >> roger stone is asleep. armed agents stormed into his home. >> heavily armed long guns for someone like roger stone. >> much like the predawn rage that captured elian gonzalez. >> he knows how to get a narrative. he said to always be the winner, however it plays out. he is paving the groundwork for
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whatever is the outcome to be favorable to roger. >> lightning rod. the odds roger stone ultimately flips on donald trump. >> i think it's unlikely. >> unlikely? under 30%? >> under 30%. >> 50%. >> 50/50? >> i can't see him in an orange jump suit. >> jason? >> 80% he flips on jared or don jr., but not trump. >> very interesting for people who followed this and doing the analysis. not withstanding what one might think of mr. stone's record. thank you all for being part of our special coverage. coming up, what will roger stone do next? i have a long-time friend of his, a witness in the russia probe, interviewed by mueller's team. he's back on "the beat" next. s team he's back on "the beat" next oh, hey jeff, i'm a car thief... what?! i'm here to steal your car because, well, that's my job.
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we are back with our special coverage of the bob mueller indictment of roger stone. i'm joined by another trump supporter. michael kaputo, thank you for being on "the beat" tonight. >> my pleasure. thanks for inviting me. >> you have spoken with the mueller team and been a long-time friend and ally of roger stone. first of all, what do you think of the charges against mr. stone tonight? >> well, i know when i sat in front of the mueller team may 2nd, 2018, they were very focused on collusion and conspiracy when it came to the questions regarding roger stone. it was clear they wanted to make a case of collusion against the president. what i see in this indictment today is, there's no collusion, no conspiracy, really, to my mind. >> you see attempted collusion?
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>> he's got two guys -- >> do you see attempted collusion? do you see attempted collusion, sir? >> i don't know. nowhere, anyone has said or believed that jerry had any contact with wikileaks and, you know, if roger was attempting to get e-mails that every reporter in the country was trying to get their hands on, i understand that. it makes sense that roger was trying to track the story down. >> then, of course, you mentioned person one jerry corsi and randy. roger was looking for specific e-mails to hurt clinton from a specific time. that request was submitted to a lawyer, blind copying him trying to get to assange. does that look like attempted collusion? >> it looks like attempted contact and foiled contact. we also don't know if the request for specific e-mails had
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anything to do with the trump campaign or something to do with the info wars. we are going to find this out. i understand what you are talking about. when you look at roger stone on the courthouse steps, very defiant. do you believe that the pressure would get to him and he would ever flip, cooperate or plea? >> no, i always wondered about the limitations when it comes to what he can take and the pressure he can bear under. i see no end to his boundaries. i mean, i have seen no boundaries. it seems to me like he can take a lot. every thursday night, people were calling roger and saying, is he okay? cnn is trying to get in the bushes. we are there more than once, by the way. every friday morning, roger woke up and pinched himself.
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here we are. he's had six months to prepare for this. i think he's in a good position. >> very interesting. thanks for coming on. >>
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bob mueller revealed a lot about wheres he's headed today. monday night we may learn even
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more because person one for mueller today will be on "the beat" live. ome corsi. stone called him judas two, right after corsi spoke to me earlier this weeb. we're going to get into everything, nothing off limits. jerome corsi right here. me cors. you should be mad at forced camaraderie. and you should be mad at tech that makes things worse. but you're not mad, because you have e*trade, who's tech makes life easier by automatically adding technical patterns on charts and helping you understand what they mean. don't get mad. get e*trade's simplified technical analysis. yeah right. iand the earth is flat. ahhh!! treat your cough seriously with robitussin cf max.
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on this busy news night. we're going to show the entire discussi discussion corsi was join on "the beat. "find it sunday wherever you get your pod cast. the beat is done but what a night to be watching msnbc. "hardball" starts right now. caveman. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening. i'm crus rr matthews in new york. we're covering two smashing news stories tonight. the arrest of his long-time dirty trickster in the russia probe, raunler stone. and trump's big cave in the shutdown. reopening the federal government without getting a single


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