tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC March 21, 2019 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT
justly, to love mercy and to walk humbly with your god. and that's "hardball" for now. or softball. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> threat come out. let people see it. >> as the world awatsz some word from robert mueller. >> the fact they don't respond to one single request begs the question why? >> disturbing new details about the president's top aid. >> she's so formal. >> concerns about how they handle classified information. >> the president had no involvement pertaining to my clearance or my husband's clearance. >> jared's done an outstanding job. >> the investigation into jared kushner and ivanka trump. >> it's always corruption.
>> then what to expect when you're expecting the imminent end of the special counsel investigation. >> president trump is waiting for the mueller report. >> plus a rebuke of attempts to snatch power in wisconsin. and what the heck is going on with brexit? >> order, order. >> when "all in" starts right now. ♪ good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. as the country waits for the mueller report to settle the question as to whether the president of the united states is compromised by russia, new revelations raise further questions of exactly whose interest the most powerful people in the country are serving. elijah cummings disclosed today that senior white house officials including the daughter and son in law have been using personal email accounts and
messaging apps to conduct official business in parent vilaze of the records act. the personal lawyer confirmed in december kushner has used and continues to use whatsapp as part of his official duties in the white house. he keeps track by screen shotting them. when asked if he's ever used whatsapp to communicate with foreign leaders? mr. lowell reports that he had commune kazs with people quote outside the united states. and ivanka with business on her personal account without forwarding them to herself at the white house as required by law. and contending that ivanka does forward official business and he never said jared had messaged with foreign officials. and cummings announced deputy national security advisor and
former strategist, steve bannon communicated about a controversial plan to give the technology to saudi arabia using the personal email. cummings who first started investigating, gave the white house two more weeks to hand over documents he's demanding. he said quote we will be forced to consider alternative means the obtain compliance. they get at one of the most troubling questions about an administration riddled with conflicts of interest. are they serving the interest of the american people or themselves? kushner has been reported to have conducted a rogue shop, leaving his own government out of the loop about his contacts with saudi officials. his contacts cause so much concern they were said to be part of the reason he couldn't get a security clearance.
that is until his fodder in law intervened. although ivanka said that did not happen. >> there were anonymous leaks about there being issues. but the president had no involvement pertaining to my clearance or my husband's clearance. >> what twhur problems early on? >> there weren't any. >> not true. what she said to the camera, that's not true. it turns out jared is not the only kushner involved with saudi arabia. his brother went at about the exact same time jared was there to conduct u.s. foreign policy. he's not the only one who stood to benefit, rather than holding them accountable for a brutal hatchet murder of a journalist for an american newspaper.
the person email 24e78, according to cummings was tom barrack, chair of his now being investigated inaugural and he did business with the saudis as way ways to seek new ways to profit for the trump administration. it's remarkable how many associates put other interests and their own bottom line ahead of the country. and after the lock her up chant, attacking his oponent over and over again, now the president has a burjenning email scandal of his own. join bide a member of the committee, steven lynch of massachusetts who sits on the house oversight committee. why do you think the white house is stone walling and how normal is this? >> this is extraordinarily rare. i think you kw can geback a dozen or more administrations where the white house has
generally been very cooperative with a congress controlled by the opposite party. the thing here is the president on most of these requests, document requests has not articulated any privilege. they haven't produced a single document. we have inquiries with seven different executive departments. none of them have produced a single document. so i think we're rapidly approaching subpoena time for a lot of these vinyls. and that is where chairman cummings is going if we continue to be stone wall said. >> they're not responding to you and saying here's why we can't produce the documents you asked for, for legal reasons. they're just not answering? >> no. it's just crickets. it's silence. they're not giving us any documents. in some cases we have
whistleblowers who reported to us about the attempted sale of nuclear technology to saudi arabia. we know the documents they're lookal for and we know they know because they're so specific and yet still nothing from the administration. >> so when the chair says we'll be forced to consider alternative means to obtain compliance, how enforceable is that or do you just end up in a stand off? >> i think in this case if it went to a court and they had produced no documents, no briefings, no information, i think they would be in a much worse case, as if they were fighting over this document or that document. roit now we're getting nothing. right now a federal judge would look and say wait a minute. there is a role of oversight for congress to get some of these documents. you can't just say no. you can't refuse to offer any
privilege that you're asserting here and completely shut out congress. they have a kaungs tuesdayal responsibility to condubt oversight. i think we will have a strong leg to stand on in terms off going to court and enforcing some of those subpoenas. >> one is into the president's meetings, particularly one on one meetings in which no american translator was present. he einfamously ripped up the notes according to reports and today there was a reply in those inquiries. the white house counsel said since the founding, the executive branch has correctly and successfully asserted that information concerning the conduct of foreign affairs is kaungs tuesdayally within the exclusive control of the executive branch and the congress can't control under the disclosure. >> that's exactly what we're trying to enforce in that case.
so he doesn't have the ability to go rogue and then not record what those abzs are. so we don't have a -- he's not the king. he's the executive branch of a three branchs of government. so we've got to confworm the judiciary requirements and conform with congress. >> when we talk about using whata srbs app, they said hillary clinton shouldby in jail because of it. is there a first-order concern, the hypocrisy or what they are obscuring by using the means you cannot get access to? >> well, look at what they're doing with 24e78 though. if you look at mr. kushner the president on occasion, they're going completely on their own without -- and mr. kushner avoid our own embassy in saudi arabia.
dealing directly with it if crown prince mohammed bin salman, trying to conduct business where he's actually trying to transfer sensitive nuclear technology without the cooperation of congress, which the atomic energy act requires. it's not only the use, which is a real vulnerability to national security. that's a concern to my subcommittee on national security. but he's also -- the things he's doing with that are borderline in terms of leaguingalty. >> thanks for your time. >> thank you, chris. >> framore on what the rev lazes tell us about the conflicts of of interest, i'm joined by msnbc legal analyst. you reported a lot about kushner
and particularly with the saudis, essentially a parallel jared kushner-based foreign policy with the saudis. staying up late, maybe help him plot purges of members of his family. and basically appearing to tell him everything was okay. what is the deal with that relationship? >> we know from his latest trip to riyadh that embassy staffers and embassy were very upset that they were essentially shut out from these meetings between jared kushner and mbs. they said they have concerns about what those conversations, how they went on, did they talk about nuclear technology, did they not? we've got some pushback saying wait a minute, we did have somebody in the state department in those meetings. that was a man named bryan hook, the head of the iran action group. but the embassy itself was esensally shut out from the kanzs.
and they provided a lot of the security for jared. they've been feeling increasingly frustrated that they have no real insight or transparency into those meetess. so that's concerning not only to the embassy but law makers on the hill. >> there's also the fact that the presidential records act seems errored and abstract at some level and how we get enduring record oz of what an administration does and i know from a fangt it was taken ebs tremely seriously under the obaum administration. >> it abtually doesn't stay a penalty for what it's violated. it's unclear what should happen other than congressional democrats will go to court. and if they can get a subpoena to try and enforce it, they can possibly get civil fines. yes, there are always issues. and as you know no president loves congressional oversight.
this was also an issue with the obama administration, the fast and furious investigation. the republicans in congress ended up holding eric holder in contempt. that went to court. three and a half years later it was resolved. congress won no executive privilege. the difference with the trump administration is in a words that donald trump used. war. he said we're not going to comply. it's go took be war. this is what he said after the drms took over the house. again it's unconstitutional because of the congressional power to over see the executive. it's all about checks and balances. >> in the fast and furious case department of justice produced tons of documents. after several rounds of bab and forth that essentially they said we can't give you anymore and congress disagreed. the central underlining thing in the case of jared kushner
repeatedly is this nube leer deal. you reported on this and i feel like we still don't know the root of it, right? as late as march 14 gtd, the trump team is still pushing for this deal to happen. tom barrack maybe stood to gain monetarily from it. what is this deal? what is its origins? >> i thin people get confused about government to government ashes potential one, two, three agreement or some other agreement regarding nuclear technology and separately ip 3 might be doing to gain a contract with saudi arabia. and while there may be overlap in terms of conversation about the nuclear tech naul, in term oz of the ongoing backder conversations what we know is within the department energy there, are conversations about how can we come up with a deal
that the saudis are on boefrd with? and they're still working oen it that deal and constant communications about it and separately we know from recent reporting we've done is also talking to saudi arabia about what they want to do and what that contract would look like with saudi arabia. but i think the contract would look different than people might realize. i think those conversations have developed a lot over the last six or eight months. >> very related to heidi's concerns is chairman cummings subpoena about the security clearance for jared kush nrb. so we know that president trump asked his white house counsel, dawn mcgahn and chief of staff, john kelly to give kushner a clearance. they said no, mr. president. and they were so concerned about being asked that they both wrote contemporary memos, documenting
they refused a president's request. we don't know what's going o on why they refused to give the security clearance. cummings is trying to find out and again they're stone wall. >> that is one part of this thread i would like to get to the bottom to. how is jared kushner conducting foreign policy and in whose interest and under what authority? great to have you both. coming up the frenzied an tis pagsz as the mueller report is ebs pected any day. and what happens when the special counsel is finished. ha special counsel is finished. i get unlimited 1.5% cash back. it's so simple, i don't even have to think about it. so i think about mouthfeel. i don't think about the ink card. i think about nitrogen ice cream in supermarkets all over the world. i think about the details. fine, i obsess over the details. think about every part of your business except the one part that works without a thought. your ink card. chase ink business unlimited. chase ink business unlimited, with unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase.
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speculation about attorney general bill barr even though the president wasn't there. and jake sherman pointed out someone flew a doj jet from london but why? and as of now no mueller report to speak of. national political justice reporter. she's been camped out again. >> i thought i would come bab with it today. it was not the day. and we're told the attorney general really does operate around normal business hours. i don't think it's going to break tonight or in the middle of your show. either we'll be on stand by tomorrow. one thing i wasn't quite sure if we could say right now is we do ebs pect them to know when the attorney general gets this report and when he transmits his briefing to congress.
we do now expebt that i think what's more important -- there's a lot of drama. i could give you all the color about the angst inside the press room and the pressure on all of us. i think what's important is to figure out what this means when it does come. we won't know much more than that. we were able to confirm this today is robert mueller's job is over. his job and funding will end with that report comes. i think that's fundal to remember. >> your understanding from the department of justice is when that is transmitted, that is the end of the splgs counsel's office, not just the investigation? >> yes, we know roger stone -- they could move that over ---ing for example the u.s. attorney of
d.c. could handle that. but esensally the end is the report and that's the end of the funding and the office as we know it. >> final question. it's not a totally some kind of collective mania or delusion that has people thinking it's coming any day now. is it? i'm not convinced i guess. is there some data to suggest this? >> i'm glad you asked. i think people on twitter think we're wrapping ourselves into a frenzy. there might be sthin to that. but whether you're a justice department reporter or justice reporter, there have been strong signals from people where they would need to know to be ready to receive this report and respond to it to tell us to get ready. that we're in a day by day, hour by hour wait. i know people thing this is a crazy fool's errand. as of now we're not told that it is.
>> i'm going to remind you and play back this tape. i'm tell you. thank you. today former fbi director james comey wrote an op-ed arguing americans should not hope for a specific outcome and maximum transparency about the special counsel's work. and he's provided five rules for when news about the mueller report comes out. what are you looking for sn how are you thinking about it? >> the most important thing is transparency and it's what jim comey has written about too. which is this is one of the most sensitive investigations in the history of the united states. parts of it have already implicated president trump in drengt wrong doing. that is said that he orb straighted the commission of campaign finance felonies. so given all of this back drop, given the fact there have been so many guilty pleas by the
president's top inner serbal folks like michael flynn and the like, i think transparency is the most important thing we should be looking for. we need to see what the mueller report says as americans. >> isn't there a lot of latitude in that transparency? >> it's unclear to me what the puramteres or boundaries of most transparent are. >> you're right. the spells counsel regulations were written in general terms because they were written for a variety of investigations, not just of the president but lower level officials and not just crimes of the like. and the variety in which you might want a spells counsel and a conflict of interest or something like that. and i think the regulations themselves don't squarely require the disclosure of every job. it's more the an mitted spear bt
hind them and our rule of law, which is the idea when you're talking about the nation's most powerful man and the person who controls the full prosecution power under our constitution, you've got to be more forthcoming. >> there's a counterintelligence aspect of this and i've dealt with this as a reporter many times, it's the easiest way to throw things underneath a blanket and no one gets to see it and like how much? >> i think it is a challenge. i'm a believe in those redactions for national security reasons. sometimes the sources are important to protect. at the same time i'm worried about this administration which has so abused the national security part it's going to make it hard to have credulity. i very much hope attorney general barr looks very carefully and before he invokes
any sort of privilege because nothing could be worse for the american people but a cover up or a cover up of the cover up. >> i want to ask about points two and three. what the scope of the report is. why are those in thes you're thinking of? >> first all of remember mueller's mandate is a kri78inal mandate and possibly aspect oz of counterintelligence. a whole variety of things that have come out in the course of the investigation and other vezs. aren't necessarily criminal. trump saying i've got no business deals in russia. we know that isn't true. but gosh darn it, it's a a pretty significant thing the american people need to know about. so when we read the mueller report, we've got to know what the limits for and there's all
sorts of investigations mueller has given to other offices, most note thaebl campaign finance investigations in the southern district of new york. the mueller report may not deal with that at all. so even if he were to conclude the president didn't conspire with russia or obstruct justice, that may not get donald trump off the hook when it comes to the very serious crimes in new york. >> i think about this sometimes, right? >> the normal way you think about criminal proscuse you don't say this person is hereby exonerated. you say we don't have sufficient evidence to pursue it. the president can't be indicted according to a lot of the way people think. what are you saying? you can't make -- >> even in sit ways sometimes
you do go further. think about the ferguson report in which there was no indictment and a lot of facts resented. it seems to me the case for disclosure is out a type because we're talking about the president that controls the prosecution power. the only way the public can have confidence in the investigation because the president controls the investigation and he fired one investigator, jim comey so the only way they can have confidence an vez was thoroughly done is by release of the report. there is no substitute. >> thank you very much. >> coming up how the republican power grab was stopped in its tracks. we'll have the lawyer who won today's big victory. today's big victory. bipolar i di sorder can make you feel like you have no limits. but mania, such as unusual changes in your mood, activity or energy levels,
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you might remember in the midterm elections that wisconsin elected a democratic governor and a democratic attorney general and you might also remember the maneuver by the state's legislatures attempting to take power away from those incoming democratb governor and attorney general and more news from carolina. then attorney general elect made it clear there would be a legal challenging and today a judge agree would the groups suing to stop the republican power grab. here with me now jeff mandel, the lead attorney for the plaintiffs in that challenge. let's start with what the changes were made. you've got lame duck section. you just lost two state wide
races and the legislature teaming up with the current governor saying let's take power away from the governor and attorney general. what are those powers they tried to take away? >> there are a whole bunch. there's a tremendous amount within the bills. these bills restricted the authority of the attorney general to litigate, say that he needed permission to do several things. they allowed the lenl slacher to hire its own private attorneys and intervene in litigation involving the state of wisconsin instead of letting the attorney general and department of justice handle that litigation. they changed the way they do rule making and gave more pow vetoes to the lenl slacher. in general they interfered in several different creative and new fangalled ways with
traditional separation of powers and the way government works. >> it was always unclear to me what are you suing under. what's your standing and your injury. how do you show the court that this is a violation? >> well, chris there are number of lawsuits. a couple of other groups as well as several individual challenged the proseenler by which the legislature started these laws. what you're calling the lame duck session, they aptly described as an extraordinary session and it's kind of a funny word. the wisconsin constitution limits when and under what circumstances the legislature can meet. here they violated those limits. and so we sued, explaining it
was invalid and therefore unenforceable and null. >> so this wasn't like there was a pro session. this is a session that was called for a specific purpose and there are rules about how and when, under what conditions you can call it and they violated those and so everything that happened is null and void? >> that's correct. here in wisconsin they can meet in two and only two surbss. first at a time as shall be provided by law and second if the governor calls them to spells session. no one contends he called this session. so the question was was this session at a time that was provided by law? and the answer we believe and the court resoundingly accepted today is not. the lenl slacher's post talk attempts to say the law allowed
this were meritless. >> why is this an important battle from the small democratic standpoint? dollar are two reasons. since amending the constitution was important. that the people retain this power and they only gave so much of it to the legislature. the second thing is that we talk so often about federal constitution and not enough about state kaungs tuesday. at least here in wisconsin differs from how it works and the ruling shows that courts will, if people ask respect and enforce the kaungs tuesdayal limits in state constitutions. >> thank you very much.
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official standing there about what they did wrong. >> we got to take care of the floors. you know the floors of the forest. very important. you look at other countries where they do it differently and it's a whole different story. i was with the president of the finland and he said we have much different. he called it a forest naez and they spernt a lot of time on raking and cleaning and doing things and they don't have any problem. >> raking. >> they should have just rabed the forest floors except the president of finland never said anything about raking. he did tell him that fins take care of the forest, he didn't mention raking. people took to woods to mock president trump meeting their rabing quota and in one case even vacuuming.
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so the democratb presidential hopefuls are staking out their positions and senator bernie sanders making his case on twitter recently writing in the u.s. it costs on average $12,000 to have a a baby. in finland it costs 60. we've get a ga aught to end the disgrace of profit -- it did not sit well with nikki haley. you're not the woman having the baby. so i wouldn't be talking about skimping on a woman when it comes to child birth. trust me. nice try. health care costs are too high but comparing tuse finland is ridiculous. ask them how their health care is, you wouldn't like the answer. people in finland have it and they could see that tweet and reply exactly what they think of their health care. it's great.
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you said it is time for the u.s. to recognize israel's sovereignty. why now? >> i've been thinking about doing it for a long time. it's been a hard decision for every president. >> it's not about netanyahu's election? >> i have no idea. he was doing okay. i don't know if he's doing great but i hear he's doing okay. >> the white house seemingly out of nowhere calling for the u.s. to officially recognize israel. they consider the land occupied territory and previous administrations have not taken the step of officially recognizing sovereignty over it. the move is similar to the way they moved the embassy to jerusalem. a long standing desire that previous presidents hadn't gone for.
and contrary the disingenuousness, it's clear to basically a trance parent attempt to aid the reelection in weeks. netanyahu and trump are bodies. both dem gaugs. netanyahu is widely expebted to be indicted in a probe. and invited into his coalition the projany of the racist party in israel. shocking news and widespread condemnation, particularly here in the american jewish community. donald trump invitinging david duke into the republican party. there's only 25 years ago goldstein went into a mosque in the west bank and fired 29 workers. and now yetten yeah hew brought
political movement into the fold. and coming to the u.s. to talk to ashes pac. along side house speaker, nancy pelosi and hoyer. the progressive group move on the response is urging 2020 democratic candidates to stay away out of protest of netanyahu's racism. and lots of nof candidates are agreeing like kamala harris, bernie sanders as well as beto o'rourke and julian castro, which highlights the bigger problem for all the folks invested in maintaining a pro-israel bipartisan consensus. the netanyahu government has acted for years and continues to act now in ways that american liberals, jewish and nonjewish view as otherly indefensible. and that central fact is getting more and more difficult to
there is breaking brexit news tonight. the european union is agreeing for the exit to the e.u. will happen in may if the british parliament agrees on withdrawal deal or april if they remain deadlocked. if you're like me you've been following the insanity and confused what the hell is going on, allow me to give you a little taste how things are looking now. headline, toilet paper maker stockpiles in case of a no deal. turns out most is manufactured in the e.u. so if things go sideways and the e.u. leau.k. l they could find themselves up a proverbial creek. when i need to know what is going on, i turn to host of the
"deconstructed pod cast." i am confuse d rigd right now. there is a log jam and impasse that can't get it done. what is going on? >> what is going on is embarrassing for the united kingdom and its government and prime minister teresa may who told us for two years that britain would be leaving the european union at 11:00 p.m. next friday, march 29th now not happening. she's had to go back to the e.u. and say please, sir, can i have an extension and they give her an extension, not the extension she wanted. she wanted a three-month extension to try to get this deal. she can't get her deal through parliament, chris. it's beyond embarrassing. it's humiliating. she should be out of a job. they rejected it in january by a record margin of over 200 votes, the biggest defeat in british history. she wants to do it again next week for a third time. >> okay. so she's negotiated a deal she
goes to parliament and says here is a deal. here is now the toilet paper will get back and forth and buses will go. there is a lot of stuff. >> on a serious note, toilet paper is an important part of your daily life and northern island, a big log jam that could return to violence if we don't get a proper deal there with the border. >> right. there is a border there that will be a hard border or some kind. she has a deal and goes to parliament, that's why she's the leader of england and yet, she can't get them to vote for it. that's the fundamental problem, right. >> of course, she doesn't have a majority in parliament by a hard-line right wing who she has to keep bribing. she lost the majority in 2017 when she went to the polls to say i'll have an election and they said we'll lose you, your majority. she's been losing a lot, chris. that's why people are wondering she going to survive beyond next
week. people are talking about her as the worst prime minister in history. if next week she tries to go for a third time lucky and fails, she has to go her own party is saying she has to go. she's getting desperate. on wednesday night she gave a speech that sounded trump. she told the public i'm on your side, the politicians aren't. it's dangerous rhetoric. >> here is the thing, seems like this breakdown of how the system works is that generally if you lose, if you cannot deliver the votes, the government collapses and there is new elections but nobody wants to be prime minister because you have the leave thing to deal with. >> nobody wants to be the prime minister because nobody knows what to do. >> that's the problem. you can rag on her all you want but anyone that would be prime minister would sort of be screwed. >> here is the problem. if she loses her job next week, you have a new prime minister but you don't get a new deal. and if you get this extension
when she's got, what does that do? move the cliff head. you'll invite me back in a month or two and we'll have this conversation again and say what will happen next week? who knows this is a mad decision. they should never have done it in this way with the referendum campaign based on lies and misinformation and weird question. then invoking article 50 saying we got to get out with no plan. the donald tusk, the european leader said there is a special place in hell for the people that decided to do brix exit wi no plan. >> i feel like i'm watching a roomba that don't stop and bumps up against articles and there is no public for what to do and how to handle the thing they voted for two years ago. >> indeed. we see today 2 million people signed a petition saying revoke article 50 and get rid of it. but teresa may said no. she wants to have a third vote. the speaker in parliament said no. according to protocol going back
to 1604, she said you can't do it again. i don't think it will happen but there is talk golfiof going to queen to shut down parliament for a day and open it and it will be a new session and we can vote again, which is of course nonsen nonsense. i don't think the queen who is a savvy player will do that but look, serious point, chris, many there is no deal and the britain crashes out of the e.u. without a deal in april or may, there will be chaos. there is talk today of the ministry of defense setting up a special military team in a nuclear bunker to discuss what happens on the streets of britain. shortages of med son or food d and. >> there is no constitution. it's governed -- >> protocols. >> president, right? the queen come in and make a new one so she could get her vote but what is so wild about this is we've watched back and forth here on the boarder wall. but with all this stuff there is
no hard deadline. there was and there is a hard deadline this is a deadline that controls the entire economy of the u.k. it's coming back and forth and can just happen. >> it's already been damaged. we had two years of brexit related problems and companies relocating abroad, banks heading for the exit door and people leaving. there is economic problems but everyone agrees if there is a no deal brexit, the british economy tanks. would they have been obsessed for so long? there is all sorts of other problems and one conservative m.p. said look, i support brexit and we can talk about something else. >> thank you for ieliminating u. while brexit is not happening on march 29th, you know what is? our hour-long prime time special on the most important issue of our time with the freshman congresswoman behind one of the most controversial policy propels to fix it. i'll be meeting alexandria
cortez with the green new deal, a fascinating discussion and you can come watch it in person. we'll be taping in the afternoon on friday, march 29th. it will air here that night, march 29th. we'll put details on how to register to attend on our website and facebook page. check that out. we hope to see you in the bronx in eight days. that's "all in" for this evening. >> a convo in the bog gogie dow. i love it. i want to go. >> we'll get you a ticket. >> sounds like fun. thank you, appreciate it. thanks to you at home for watching us. rachel has the night off but we promise she will be back soon. everybody all together take a deep cleansing breath. we get it. we're all stressed out. not just because rachel is off but mueller tc