tv Morning Joe MSNBC March 26, 2019 3:00am-6:00am PDT
okay. good morning, welcome to "morning joe", with us we have k columnist and associate editor of the "washington post," david ige -- ignacious, jeremy bash, host of andrea mitchell reports, andrea mitchell, former chief of staff to the dccc and former director of strategic communications for hillary clinton's presidential campaign, adrienne elrod, and national political reporter for axios, jonathan swan, and with us, msnbc contributor mike barnicle from new york city. good to have you all on board. >> last night i was watching some news. >> you shouldn't have done that. >> you watched the wrong news. >> after watching, some of the most ridiculous commentary. i had had enough and i turned
over for the first time in two years to american masters and i saw the incredible story, i didn't know it, of sammy davis jr. realize, it was a little lately. i was a little worked up, though. the commentary from people who pushed the rich conspiracy murder, and the people who have said some of the most vile things about immigrants, some of the most vile things about women in defense of donald trump unbelievable. so i pose this question to you, i'd pose this question to everyone watching, either now or later on the internet, what would you have had the media do over the past two years when donald trump lied throughout the 2016 campaign about his contacts
with russia. why would donald trump lie about russia? why would the man who was coming in to have the most powerful foreign policy position, the national security adviser, general flynn, why did he lie to the fbi in december about his contacts with czechoslovakia, swedes? no, no, no, with russia. and that wasn't even a russian accent. why in january would mike pence go on a sunday show, and lie and say, actually, nobody in the trump campaign ever talked to any russians during the campaign. why would he do that when telling the truth would have been so much easier? why would the attorney general of the united states before becoming attorney general lie to members of his own senate about
having contacts with the russian, and let me just stop you right here and ask you a question, what should the media have done when everybody it seems that was close to the president, everybody who i was told were the president's closest adviser in 2016, everybody who i was told flew on the plane with trump all across america, what's the press to report on when all of these lies were tumbling out of the mouths of trump aides? should we have reported on horse farms in kentucky or done investigations into how maybe eating tree bark would lower our cholesterol, what would you have had us do? i don't just say this to people on the right who have found common cause with conspiracy theorists over seth ridge or sandy hook.
i'm saying this to establish journalists who are ringing their hands and saying this is worse than wmd. is it really? is that why george pop dlied to fbi. >> and paul manafort. >> his campaign manager not only got caught lying to the fbi but after he was in talking to the fbi got caught lying again. donald trump's second in command, behind paul manafort, got caught lying to the fbi, and then when he was delivering his prooffer, he got caught lying to the fbi. the man that donald trump knew longer than anybody else in politics, you see him on the lower right-hand corner, yeah, you know, the guy with the nixon tattoo on his back, get caught
lying to the fbi about what? bowling? huh? the best places to get sangria in san diego in no. the russians, they lied about the russians nonstop for two years. oh, let's see, maybe the press, maybe "the new york times," maybe "the washington post," maybe the "wall street journal," maybe they should have just ignored the fact that don jr. met with a bunch of russians who said they were going to give him info, dirt on hillary, and he said i love it. wait a second, i better contact the fbi because that's what everybody else would have done. he said i love it. maybe they should just ignore the fact that the president called everybody around on air force one and concocted a lie, said let's say it's about adoptions. i just ask, what was the media
supposed to do at that point, shrug it off? you know the answer, and just because you're sucking up to donald trump and just because power is all that matters to you, and just because you will justify everything that man does and just because you are corrupt, just because you're not a journalist, just because you have sold your soul to a personality, don't knock reporters at "the new york times" or the "washington post" or the "wall street journal" or the broadcast networks for doing their job right. >> which they'll continue to do. >> which they will continue to do. so you can keep lying, you can keep saying your misogynistic statements, you can see hispanics are breeders and bring diseases to america, and bringing up theories i'm seth rich theory, that was great for his family, way to go. you're lecturing "the washington
post" and "the new york times" on journalism. and by the way, if you write for these papers, and there's some people i respect that write for these papers that have written columns condemning the media's behavior, be ashamed of yourself. be ashamed of yourself. were there bad actors, yeah, and guess what, we know who they are. we won't have them back on our show. but there are bad actors, guess what, i got bad news, there are bad actors in your house, and a lot of you who were bitching and moaning and being self-righteous, you are the bad actor. save your breath, we're not going to divert our eyes. this president lies more than any other president in the united states. he has lied about universal health care, he promised he'd give it. he lied about the wall, he said mexico was going to pay for it.
the mexicans wouldn't pay for it. the republicans wouldn't pay for it when they owned washington. we're going to keep talking about that. tax cuts, he said he was going to help the working nan, and went to mar-a-lago, and talked to robert craft, and whoever the hell was around the table and said, i just made you all a lot of money today. no, we're not going to divert our eyes. damn the torpedos, full speed ahead, follow the story where it leads us. david ignacious, should we talk about tree bark, and what it can do to lower your cholesterol, i'm not going to get into this much more, i don't want us to talk about what the media did and didn't do, and by the way, i don't listen to spear theorists and the hate mongers and i happened to stumble across it last night on pbs.
it was too much for me. i guess what put me over the top is when i saw somebody that i respected that wrote for the "new york times" actually parroting the attacks on the mainstream media for actually covering an administration packed with liars. and again, lying not about sweden, not about their last trip to noeva scotia, lying abot russia. >> i'm glad to hear a full throated defense of our business. people have been trying to serve our readers and viewers, this presidency is unlike any other we have seen. we have to go back to the beginning of this and remember that russia was running a covert action to subvert our political system. we had an adversary literally that wanted to take us around, divide us against each other, and we have been trying to figure out, what are the strand of that. >> footnote, and i'll shut up,
let you finish. footnote for these people, what do we do when kirstjen nielsen, the president's own head of homeland security said vladimir putin was trying to subvert american democracy. trump's fbi director said, cia director said, it trump's military people said it. everybody said it. >> and so does the mueller report. >> and they're acting like there wasn't a russian attempt to subvert american democracy. >> what i found really troubling, i want to say sickening was the russians trying to say that they were exonerated by the mueller report. >> if you watch fox news, you would think they were. >> what mueller told us about russia's campaign to subvert our country is some of the most frightening material that he gathered and to this day, donald trump and members of his administration really having accepted, owned up to how
serious this was. people in my business make mistakes every day, and we made mistakes in some of our coverage, and we're looking at those and thinking about those, but the basic point you made, that we are out there trying to find the truth with an administration that doesn't always respect it is right, and you know, people in my business have to keep going forward as hard as they can with that job. >> andrea, let me ask you this question. i'm a simple country lawyer as you know, i don't understand the ways of you big city people. certainly not somebody as smart as mitch mcconnell. >> oh, my gosh. >> if this was all much adieu about nothing, if this was just a hoax, wouldn't you want america to see just how innocent this president was of all charges? why would you hide the report that donald trump just last week said he wanted everybody to see? >> he repeated that in recent days, yes, let it all be out.
you know, the mueller report as far as we know from the very brief four-page summary that the attorney general forwarded to congress concluded that the russians were attacking our democracy. but they also according to those top lines, he concluded that there is no actionable prosecutable crime. well, we don't know what's in the classified section which will be turned over presumably to the intelligence committees. we don't know about the classified findings of what took place that was not necessarily a crime but what is something that our congress needs to look at which our fbi needs to look at, which our government needs to act on, which is and certainly before the 2020 campaign, my information from very official sources is that there was another attack in 2018 and it was deflected because the
agencies were smart enough to figure out how to go against this cyber attack. >> and i have heard the word several times exonerated. just to be clear, we haven't seen the report, and nothing about barr's interpretation says there was any exoneration and makes a very clear point, the one quote in it that barr did put forward is that he is not exonerated in terms of obstruction. if you listen to the white house, and if you listen to fox, and if you listen over and over and over again, they are branding this as a full exoneration. it is not. >> it's just not. >> it's not even close to an exoneration. it is not an exoneration. does anybody want to argue that? it's not. >> actually, since robert mueller said they couldn't exonerate him, and we only get sentence fragments, i think we should do something really radical. we should wait and read the entire report because we have read with a letter from the man
who applied for his job by sending a memo to donald trump saying i don't think the special counsel should be doing all the terrible things that he's doing to you. that's not a letter i'm going to put a lot of stock in. i'm going to wait for the real report. >> here's david frum, the real reaction is the final collapse of the anti-trump into outright pro-trump, untroubled by putin's intervention in the 2016 election and trump's undisclosed russian business dealings. >> jeremy bash, he lied time and again about his dealings with russia, his lawyer lied time and time again about his dealings with russia, he's going to jail. again, i mean, the lies just stack up. again, the question remains, what does the media do? do they ignore all of it? no, they don't.
my god, you still have republicans saying they want to investigate hillary clinton three years later. >> and if you unpack the conspiracy issue in the barr summary, i think it's very interesting, which is why we need to see the mueller report. here's what we know. we know the president asked for russian assistance. we know he received russian assistance. we know he benefitted from russian assistance, and we know he rewarded russian assistance, so what i think mueller is telling us is that the trump campaign and donald trump did actually participate and assist the russians in their interference and based on that, that does not rise to the level of a crime, although, if you take that story in its totality, analyze from the lens of national security as andrew pointed out and as david has been reporting, this constitutes a grave threat to our democracy. it's not just about what happened before. it's about what will happen in the future, so i think we shouldn't draw the conclusion that if you ask for the assistance of an adversary, you receive it, you benefit from it, and you reward it, you're okay because you know what, it's going to be a green light for
people to do it again. >> and by the way, you lie about it, david, as the president did on air force one. you sit down, get everybody around, and say, okay, this is the lie we're going to tell "the new york times" and the world. >> there is the enduring mystery of why if he was so innocent he has acted so guilty for two years. that's going to take historians to sort out, probably. >> and it matters. >> it matters a lot. but i think that the basic point we're all making is we need to do our jobs unthreading this presidency, trying to help readers and viewers understand what's true and what isn't, trying to help people understand this incredible, you know, full scale assault on our politics by russia, to try to encourage division in the country. we need to keep doing that. if we slow down in that because we're backed off by the aftermath of the mueller report, we will look back on that, really, i think with shame. this is one of those moments you
have to keep doing what you're doing. and kind of just be confident that that's what your readers and viewers want you to do. >> after the election, the media is a great punching bag. this is not like the election at all. jonathan swan, the white house has released a press release or some type of message to news, this is the trump campaign, as to news outlets of who not to book. >> yes, i tweeted it out yesterday, they sent a memo from the trump campaign to -- they told me all networks, i said did that include fox, and they said all networks, but it was basically trying to single out democratic officials and guests who have said that the president colluded with russia on air, and, you know, it was a gimmick, as one official admitted to me, but they're obviously trying to push this. trump has said privately that he wants people fired over this, that he wants people in the
media fired over this, and lindsey graham told me last night that he promised the president at palm beach over the weekend that he would look into the origins of the investigation and investigate the fisa process, so i think we will see lindsey graham do that in his capacity as senate judiciary chair. >> what do democrat ds do now? it's interesting. we have said this on the air. this isn't monday morning quarterback. we have said all along that nobody in america cared about the russia investigation. nobody was asking about collusion, in fact, democrats told us that back in september when we went to a meeting to ask them how they were preparing for 2018, and none other than adam schiff said i've got to conduct the investigation, but i will tell you, nobody in my district is talking about russia. it matters but not to voters.
how do they move forward in 2020? >> i think it's a two-track system. you have to make sure democrats conduct oversight in congress, that is their job, their constitutional ability, you let pelosi, and schiff and chairman of the committees, and when it comes to 2020 candidates, you focus on the issues, because the issues are on the side of the democratic party, health care, the economy, jobs, raising wages, that is how democrats flipped the house in 2018, picked up hundreds of down ballot seats across the country. to the impeachment wing of my party that has been so adamant about taking trump down via impeachment, let this be a warning sign. you have to take him down on the issues, we can do it. the issues are on our side. >> that's something nancy pelosi said weeks ago. >> mike barnicle, you have been waiting patiently, standing by. i'm curious what you think about all the noise from people saying
that the "new york times" and the "washington post" and everybody involved should have never followed this story despite the fact donald trump and all the president's men and women around him were lying for two years about russia. >> you know, joe, this discussion for the past 19 minutes now that's been going on in bits and fragments for months is truly depressing, and truly, i think, proof that vladimir putin won beyond his wildest dreams. he has turned our political, cultural, social systemsi upsid down. he has two political parties hating one another. there's no dialogue. they hate each other. they have the social tools like twitter that they use like bunson burners to torch every idea and every human being involved in this fight. vladimir putin won, and he's still out there on the field taking us on.
and we're folding in our own self-contempt for each other, politically, socially, we are folding and yet out in the larger country, there are people, millions of people, the vast majority of people who depend on institutions like "the washington post," like "the new york times," like their local papers, like us in some component parts to give them the truth. it's our job to do our job. >> well, so mike, let me ask you, did "the washington post," did "the new york times," did everybody do their job? >> you know, joe, we have now such a confusion as to what is the media, and what is not. i mean, i am a strong proponent, advocate of reporters. reporters, not columnists, reporters staying off twitter because people confuse the reporter as an editorialist, and they think the reporters are injecting their own opinions into news stories.
i think the "post" and the "times" and many newspapers did their jobs. you follow the story. donald trump gave us so many kernels to follow. you have to follow the story. you have to do your job. now in retrospect, did we get some component parts of the story wrong, yeah, we did, but how did we get it wrong, we got it wrong from following the story. that happens every day. it happens in local coverage of police departments, it happened here with the president of the united states. on the mueller report, we don't know what's in it. we don't know whether it's 5 pages or 500 pages. we know on the collusion aspect that clearly one thing happened, encouraging the russians to do things is not a crime. you can't indict fanybody for saying, i love it, as donald trump, jr., did, but putting that in the story makes it appear like, oh, they're in bed with the russians. maybe they were, maybe they weren't. i don't know. i'm not apologizing for anything that the news media did.
>> and when you even talk about that language that nobody colluded with the russian government, okay. did they collude with russian oligarchs oligarchs, did they collude with other russians. again, release everything. show the transparency that donald trump wanted shown a couple of weeks ago. and journalists just keep doing your job. jonathan swan, speaking of that, what are you doing today, what are you looking at? >> i'm just chasing trying to get more information about what's on the line. we can't emphasize nuenough tha we only have the barr report. when we're going to find out more, when congress is going to receive it. >> and how aggressive are the democrats right now going to be to get the full transparency that donald trump asked for last week? >> well, very much so. but we're already seeing when we're talking to some democrats in the house, and there is some
recognition privately that they're in an uncomfortable position. some of them have leaned hard into the collusion narrative, and they're in an uncomfortable position. it does underscore nancy pelosi's precedence here. for her, you have to remember, she represents one of the most liberal districts in the country. she had a progressive base, probably everyone in her district wanted to impeach the president and for her to come out before this report was issued to say, no impeachment, let's poor cold water on it. that was politically kind of a risky move for her, and she looks pretty good now, actually. >> yes, she does. >> but she still has to fight off rashida tlaib, and i think it's nancy pelosi's birthday today. >> all right. happy birthday. >> that's amazing. >> she has a lot on her plate. >> yes, she does. >> and look at adam schiff being
targeted by the republicans, including steve scalise and kevin mccarthy saying he should be removed as intelligence chair for citing collusion based on what they were seeing. >> these are the people that did the benghazi report through the entire campaign. how long did they do the benghazi report? >> it was an 11-hour hearing. >> and waited until after the election about dropping it. and now they're talking about going back and investigating hillary clinton. yeah, i don't think any republicans -- >> by the way, how about lindsey graham acknowledging that it was he, not his friend john mccain who got the dossier. nobody is mentioning that. >> good luck with that. >> john mccain turned that dossier over at the suggestion of lindsey graham and it was after the halifax security conference. after they already had it. >> so alex, we're going to alex, just so we get this exactly right. >> we learned per lindsey graham
that mccain showed lindsey what to do with it, and lindsey said you should send that to the fbi. for all the time trump railing against mccain. it was all at the direction of lindsey. >> jonathan swan, thank you very much. >> hold on, i just wanted to say that the good voters of south carolina, i love your state, i don't know whether i love charleston or greenville spart spartansburg. i want you to know that your senator was the one that actually told john mccain to turn the dossier over to the fbi. lots of luck with that, lindsey. >> jonathan swan, thank you very
much. i think we should have an investigation into lindsey graham over doing that. >> we'll be reading axios this morning. mike pence gave rex tillerson a pep talk to keep him from quitting six months into the job. the vice president is now doing a similar thing to keep dan coats from walking away. nbc's carol lee joins us with that. and a member of the foreign relations relations committee. first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> how did we leave out myrtle beach. beautiful. >> the miracle over myrtle beach. >> the miracle over myrtle beach. >> we'll tell you about it later. >> boy, that plane. wow. go ahead. they had a little bit of rain. started to exit east in north carolina. it is a dry day almost everywhere in the country, but it is cold. it doesn't look like the end of march. windchills in the teens in detroit. syracuse at 16. even new york city is at 26. it's the winter coat, gloves and
hats for the kids early today. later on this afternoon will be a little bit better. the big weather story we're going to have this week, the continued flooding problems, the rivers are high. we have another batch of rain that's going to come to the region. the mississippi and the missouri, and around sioux falls, we have had a lot of issues lately, too, and by the end of this week, we're going to get 2 inches of rain, plus additional snow melt from the north. be expecting a lot more flooding stories coming this weekend and even into next week. today's forecast is about as quiet and as nice as it gets from coast to coast, after we get done with the morning chill, the sunshine will feel good throughout much of the country. washington, d.c., it's a cold morning, this afternoon should be enjoyable, around 50 degrees. you're watching morning joe. we'll be right back. you're watching morning joe. we'll be right back.
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you know reliable support when you have it, and that dependability is what we want to give our customers. at comcast, it's my job to constantly monitor our network. prevent problems, and to help provide the most reliable service possible. my name is tanya, i work in the network operations center for comcast. we are working to make things simple, easy and awesome. we have some breaking news, the white house has announced on twitter that vladimir putin is
coming to the white house in the fall. >> say that again. >> vladimir putin coming to the white house. >> did i hear you? >> yeah, yeah. okay. that's going to be special. >> i got to say, he's got great comic timing. >> that was cute, yeah. that was an incredible moment, andrea. >> you know, we shouldn't follow this story. that would be such a waste of time. nbc news has learned from current and former senior trump administration officials that director of national intelligence dan coats was on the verge of resigning at the end of last year due to frustrations for the president on a slew of issues. but he was talked out of it by his closest ally in the white house, vice president mike pence who reportedly convinced him to stay on until at least the summer. joining us now, one of the
authors of that article, national political recorder for nbc news, carol lee, so what were the reasons he wanted to leave and what kept him? >> well, it was really at that point in december, it was over the president's announcement of prompt withdrawal from syria, followed by the resignation of defense secretary mattis who had become a close ally of coats, and the folks that my partner and i talked about was that coats was really torn about what to do, and so he went to pence and had a conversation with him, and said he was really thinking about leaving. he thought it was time. and pence made the case that, you know, he should stay on. that it would look like too much turmoil if he left following mattis and to hang in there until the summer and they could revisit it. and it turns out this is something that pence has done over the course of the time that coats has been dni, and the reason we looked at coats,
because if you take him, he's really the longest serving after secretary pompeo, the longest serving national security official in the trump administration who's regularly been in the president's cross hairs, you know, a lot of it was private. that moment you showed with andrea in aspen is when it really became public and became far more problematic for coats and we wanted to figure out how he managed to survive, when we saw people like tillerson and others who wound up resigning and leaving and being pushed out, and it turns out it was largely pence who his close friend of his from indiana politics. >> david. >> good reporting by carol lee, and nbc. dan coats has been one of the stand up people in this administration. i still remember the afternoon of the helsinki summit where president trump had made such deferential comments standing next to vladimir putin, and dan coats, as head of the intelligence community on his own issued a statement standing
behind u.s. intelligence reporting which the president had seemed to undercut, seemed to be in agreement with putin against his intelligence chiefs, and coats decided that was wrong. he put up a statement that was a lot of talk then that the president might fire him. i think he's somebody who has come over his time in this job to understand and appreciate the importance of our intelligence community, to be its defending at the white house. it's not surprising that he got so disturbing and oppressed, he wanted to walk. i think we're lucky he didn't. >> andrea, there's another example, media has to follow a story, when the president of the united states believes in kgb agent instead of the fbi, the cia, the director of national intelligence, the entire intel community, he says so in helsinki sglr helsinki. >> and also most recently on north korea where dan coats and
the entire intelligence committee stood firm in front of congress and said that kim jong un had no intentions of ever giving up his nuclear weapons and this is months and months after, you know, last june in singapore. this was before the second summit, and this was months after the president said, well, you know, the nuclear threat is over, and that's not the case, and remember, the president has been saying that the intelligence community had to go back to school. so there's been a lot of tensions. coats, of course denied that he ever planned to quit, and one really hopes that he doesn't. it's also that he was a former, not only a former senator and knew from congress, and knew from indiana politics of course mike pence, but also had been the ambassador to germany, and knew very well the importance of nato, and the important of our allies, and one has to think that anyone in the administration who sees the way the president speaks about nato and has from, you know, for two years, as well as our allies has
to be dismayed. >> carol, the reporting says he plans to stay on until this summer. what do we know about his relationship, dan coats, with trump? does trump watch him and gauge his wording and make sure he sticks to the loyalty oath or does he have a certain amount of freedom to do his work? >> one of the things about dan coats is unlike some of the other members of the national security team, he doesn't speak publicly as much, and that moment in aspen was one of the few times when he spoke publicly, and that got under the president's skin, and he's testified before congress. he's got under the president's skin as andrea just laid out. you know, their relationship is -- they're very different people. you know, president trump refers to him as mr. rogers. you know, he just, he's this sort of mild mannered, very serious, former diplomat, former senator, and president trump frankly sees intelligence
officials additional advisers giving him advice that he's free to ignore. there has been tension from early on when coats came in, it was right after president trump had tweeted that president obama was wiretapping him during the campaign. you know, he repeatedly pressed coats to find evidence that that was true, that he believed that that was his job to prove that and coats would go around and around with him and saying that didn't happen. he has accused coats of leaks. so there's this ongoing kind of tension and the folks we spoke with for the story said now it seems to at least kind of stabilized. we are getting close to the summer, so we don't know exactly what coats plans will wind up being, and officials said that no final decision has been made. the relationship at least for now seems stabilized in part because coats is not out there every day speaking publicly. >> nbc's carol lee. thank you very much. we will be reading your reporting on nbcnews.com.
and now beto world, looking to 2020. >> this is one of the biggest hires, one of the most experienced campaigners at this table. many at this table know her as well. she has worked on five presidential campaigns. she will basically take this movement beto has created and turn it into something that is strategically sound, and actually works, right. >> will she get him to stop apologizing? >> i don't know. >> that's what campaign managers do. don't apologize. >> so far in this primary raised over $6 million in 24 hours, and she'll be able to take that energy and enthusiasm and turn it into something effective and a machine that will work. >> that's big news. really quickly, mayor pate is jumping up in the polls, double digits, third place, getting more campaign volunteers. >> two big moments. i'm going to give one of those big moments to the two of you who did a fantastic interview
with him on morning joe a couple weeks ago. those are the moments that matter right now. when you have 18 to 20 people jumping into this primary when you have a breakout moment like that, a lot of people see on television. of course the cnn town hall, he impressed a lot of folks. it's going to be interesting to see where that goes. >> he's impressive. he's really impressive. that's what everybody says when they get a chance to see him. and it's going to be interesting to see how that cuts through. people seem to be looking for a good person who knows what he's doing. or she. >> thank you so much. still ahead, top democrats are demanding that attorney general william barr publicly release robert mueller's report. senator chris murphy is one of them. >> hold on, is he on the enemy's list? >> he might be. >> chris murphy joins the conversation next on "morning joe." . conversation next on "morning joe.
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>> it is. we can talk about a lot of national things. let's talk about something that happened that you love that we both love and feel a connection to. another tragedy, yet another tragedy coming out of sandy hook. >> yeah, this is absolutely heartbreaking. jeremy richmond, one of the fathers of one of the little girls who was killed in sandy hook killed himself yesterday morning at the town hall in newtown. we don't have any more information than that, except that jeremy and his wife had started a foundation named after their daughter that was dedicated to the specific purpose of understanding the human brain and trying to be able to figure out how to int intercede before somebody does harm to themselves or others. the idea that he would take his life is a reminder that there are still a lot of mysteries inside our brains that we still have not unlocked and it's also just another reminder that the ripples of grief in these communities are never ending.
people ask, you know, how is newtown doing. newtown is fundamentally broken. it's a place that is doing better than it was six years ago, but will never be the same. >> of course it will never be the same. and it feels like, especially after hearing the two parkland students died by suicide in the past two weeks, that we're looking at an epidemic on violence, but i wonder if this ripple effect will be the next one, when we have generations of students and families dealing with gun violence, the ripple effect is this grief that is so overwhelming. >> and by the way, i've got to say, just like a lot of us grew up worrying about a nuclear war and we would go through drills. >> and the anxiety. >> and hide under the desk. and i know in our schools at least, there were fallout shelters in every school and if there was a nuclear attack, you ran down there, and that was the specter, nuclear attack from the
soviet union. now, our children -- >> this is the fear they have. >> our children, especially post newtown have this fear. my first grader when he was in kindergarten came back from school and explained to me that he and 26 other classmates had been shoved into a bathroom, and told to be quiet and standstill for as long as possible because they were practicing for if a bad person got into the building. these ripples of fear and tension and greeief are everywhere. no one can hide from the epidemic. if you want to know why politics are changing in washington, it's because everybody is now face-to-face with this, whether you're in a suburban school district or urban school district, and that's why ultimately this is going to change. it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. >> and there was a heartbreaking interview that kate snow did on nbc nightly news with two young parkland women who have survivors guilt, and they talked about it, and they rely on each other.
they reached out to each other on camera. but they're not always with their friends, and so you now worry about all of these other kids. >> you have to remember what's happening every single day in baltimore, new orleans, hartford, right, every single person in those communities knows someone, a close friend who's been shot. and so, you know, in these very unique places like newtown or aurora, there's a specific kind of grief, but in every single poor neighborhood in this country, it's never ending, and the trauma is never ending, which is why it's just time. >> senator, you know, every time there's one of these tragedies, we think maybe this time there will be enough political momentum to breakthrough, but after newtown, after parkland, those hopes sort of vanish after a few months. i have a daughter who's a schoolteacher who does this training to get ready for attacks, comes on and talks about the trauma for her and her
students. why do we keep putting ourselves through this without taking political action? >> because there's not going to be a before or after moment on the issue of gun violence in this country, this is about political power, the this is about the -- the nra developed a political machine over the course of 20 to 30 years. our movement the anti-gun violence movement is only five years ol. we are building our own machine. i think actually today we are stronger than the gun looby is. we beat 18 a-rated nra a-rated members of congress in 2018. but until we are as mature as they are. there isn't that ee epiphany. it's a matter of us getting bigger and stronger. i was with the parkland kids and the rest yesterday. it's their movement now. i will tell you a lot of politicians in this place are afraid of what they're doing leading up to the 2020 elections. >> mike barna from new york has a question.
>> one of the effects is the the grief blond belief. attacking newtown today. certainly attacked jeremy richmond. i'm not using his name. but one individual promulgated promoted and achieved the almost incomprehensible feat of having some people in this country believe that newtown was staged. as you know better than most people in newtown, some of the parents were forced to move to virtually hide in public in this country. what -- what do we do about not just that one aspect of it what he did? but the fact that, you know, something like that takes a life of it's own? >> well, listen, i'll use his name we're talking about alex jones and the fact of the matter is is that the companies that allow people like him, conspiracy theorists to be able to purvey lies have a responsibility. there is no constitutional duty on an internet company to allow
somebody to troez parents of mass tragedies like alex jones did to so long. the newtown families are proceeding with a court case to try to hold him accountable. but the companies that allow for the non-sense and garbage to be spread over the internet have a responsibility and duty themselves to do something earlier than they did in the case of info wars. i wish that these parents could shut it all out. but any can't. they cannot. and some of them frankly turned to chasing down the conspiracy theorist as a full-time job because they see it as their responsibility to make sure that everyone knows what happened to their child, and think about how that sort of second victimization works when every day you log onto the internet trying to fine the people denying the death of your child. that's something that none of us can comprehend. and whil we can't ever make the
luna a ticks completely disappear there are some big commercial actors like facebook, twitter who can do a better job of policing. >> or like facebook, like twitter, like goingle. >> right. >> internet service providers, they are broadcasting the hate over the care. they are spreading the lies. google on the search engine, something i know way too much about, like conspiracy theorists put garbage there. and google has a responsibility to not publish it at the time top of the lists. >> i know we sometimes -- they sometimes are so big they feel like the government. but any aren't thp they are a private commercial actor that can decide what they spread and what they don't. there are restrictions on government pass to what kind of restrictions we can place and speech. but the big commercial players can make values decisions. they can. >> if it's not on the search
engine people don't go to it. they're the ones basically publishing an index that leads people directly to the hate sites. >> i wanted to ask you because you're in foreign relations and you have access to this stuff what about the russian connection with the nra and maria butina and all the rest? what do we know about russia working through the nra. >> one of the reasons why it's a connected back to your prior conversation we need to see the report is because there may be information inside that report about in connection. >> exactly. >> between russia and the nra. we know that mueller was looking into this question. we know the nra was all of a sudden flush with cash in 2016, cash they all of a sudden don't have any longer. >> $30 million. >> they're hemorrhaging dollars. it's hard for me to know. >> where did the $30 million come from. >> that would be nice to know? a report that right now only one
member of the united states government has access to. >> are we able to get to it. >> we have to get to it. he has it give us the report. what is he redacting from the report? is he taking out all the information regarding russian mona may have been funneled into political interest groups in the united states because it's sensitive and not available to members of congress? there are fights coming oh up not just whether the report is released but what's in it. >> jeremy, the republicans forced the release of the all the 302s for hillary clinton. any did that last year. and that's the same thing basically grand jury tomorrow. >> that's right. i was going to ask the senator, are you asking not only for the report but the underlig investigative material? because if you remember 1998 when ken starr issued his report in the all of 1998 not only did the report go to the hill but boxes and boxes went to the judiciary committee and actually staff members looked through the
material forming the basis for the ultimate judgment. the statutory goem is different now obviously. but it's in the pur have you of the congress to ask for that. will you. >> we will ask. that's which i suggest there are lots and pieces and chapters of the story to come. imagine i'm sure you talked about this before. but imagine if ken starr handed the report to janet reno o instead of congress and the attorney gentle hand add four-page memo to the congress. how do you think that would have gone over in the congressional leadership at the time? and so we need the report. we need the backup. we need to have everything in front of us to do our own due diligence. when were elected not the attorney general. >> what do you think of the statement that the president was not exonerated on obstruction? that seems to be the open ended question. >> the question is why did the attorney general believe there
were difficult questions of law or whatever his turn of phrase was? were those difficult questions of law whether the president can be held to an obstruction of justice charge to begin with? is there clear evidence and it's a question as to whether he has executive privilege? that would be different than there being facts on both sides of the question. all of that is relevant to our own proceedings we have to go. >> senator chris murphy. . thank you a lot on your plate. appreciate your coming on. jeremy bash thank you. >> andrea mitchell we will watch andrea mitchell report at noon eastern right here on msnbc. great to have you on. >> thank you. >> still heyde, mitch mcconnell won't let a vote on robert mueller's report see the light of day. >> why is that? because i thought it was a report vindicating the president. >> right exonerates is the word the president used. >> totally. >> he is incorrect. but any how, mitch mcconnell is eager to send the green new deal
to the floor for a vote this afternoon. we explain the politics behind that move. meanwhile president trump appears to be plotting revenge, acheding critics of treason warning they'll be looked at. plus high-profile attorney michael avenatti arrested and charged with allegedly trying to shakedown nike. we'll have details on the two federal cases against him. "morning joe" is back in two minutes. "morning joe" is back in two minutes. to do whatever it takes, use every possible resource, to fight cancer. and never lose sight of the patients we're fighting for. our cancer treatment specialists share the same vision. experts from all over the world, working closely together to deliver truly personalized cancer care. specialists focused on treating cancer. using advanced technologies. and more precise treatments than before. working as hard as we can- doing all that we can- for everyone who walks through our doors.
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so-called main stream media and journalists should be embarrassed tonight. feeling humiliated tonight. apologizing to the american people. impissed off and so should the country be. >> this should be a restrictry lap but i'd be ticked off off despite the vindication it brings it won't undo the harmful crap from the media pushing the haaslation. they cobbled together a
weightless words. >> you guys on this thrk this rk tor yurred this man with collusion. >> first of all. >> before we talk about obstruction apologize for the overreaction to collusion. >> not a kplans. >> of course not because you're not fair. >> you no know better than into "i" outraged bit behavior of the networks. >> okay. >> collusion, collusion, collusion. collusion. collusion. no collusion. >> here is my into is it no. >> collusion. >> apologize. >> never. >> all right. the president's attorney and media allies. >> he is the one -- rudy giuliani was telling everyone he was afraid the report was going to be devastating. >> in between. >> criticizing the press for doing its job. just moments ago, the president tweted claiming the main stream media is being quote skoernd all over the world as being corrupt and fake. welcome back to "morning joe" it's tuesday march 26th with us columnist and associate editor,
politics editor for the daily beast sam stein. nbc news capitol hill correspondent and host cht casey dc casey hunt. "new york times" bureau chief. professor of international politics test fletcher cool of law and diplomacy. dranl o daniel dress in her msnbc contributor. >> did sean hannity settle his case for seth riches's dras are kwas for destroying their lives. >> well check. >> the attacks on the media by some in the media, in the wake of the attorney general releasing a summary of the report. wasn't limited to fox. "the new york times" said we have made fools of ourselves again. the political media especially on tv now a testimony polite it can apply whenever a scandal looms to hook viewers into the speculative story line they
assume maximum guilt. imaginative pundit it's connect dots to speculations of guilt. i hear the indictments are coming down next we can they whisper to one another process members of the accused party attack others. they get to enjoy a sense of spiritual superiority when it turns out the scandal is smaller than it appears which is almost always the case. it's a wonderful game georgia. blah, blah, blah. i can't believe you're making me read all of this. >> "the new york times" notes, of roehling stone called the apparent lack of new charges resulting from the mueller report, quote, a death blow for the reputation of the american news media. comparing the ee roenz reporting on weapons of mass destruction in the reason yup up to the iraq war. >> really, matt? really, david? really? fox news? what were you -- what would you have the media do? as first reported by our own
david ignatius, national security michael flynn lied to federal agents about discussing election related sanctions with the russian ambassador. the same person who attorney general jeff sessions met with during the campaign. meeting sessions didn't reveal the judiciary committee when he voluntarily said he met with the russians. but he lied about that, just like the national security adviser lied about that. just rick vice president mike pence lied about that when he stated unequivocally that the trump campaign had no contacts with the russians. echos the official lynn that came from top trump aide hope hicks after the election. she lied about. and repeated by donald trump himself in the white house, lying about that. >> and i have no dealing with
russia. i have no deals in russia. i have no deals that could happen in russia because we have stayed away. >> i have nothing to do with russia. to the best of my knowledge no person that i deal with -- >> you know, we knew those were allies because of the testimony of michael cohen. and a letter of intent to develop a tower in moscow that trumped signed in october of 2015. remember, he told us throughout the 2016 campaign he had nothing to do with russia. it was a lie and i'm just wondering at this point, should we have started following, like, seth rich stories? should we do investigations on something else? no. no. bus actually when everybody around the president was lying about contacts with one of our foreign adversaries. >> that's a news story. >> that's a "new york times" job. david, that's rolling stone's jab ejob.
matt and sean, i know it's not your job. >> definitely not his. >> definitely not your job. >> just. >> your job is to make up stories about seth rich. >> skip over that one. >> jared kushner had hundreds of errors and omissions on his security clearance form. leaving off contacts with who? the frefrm? no, the russians. including a campaign meeting with donald trump junior which president trump later worked to cover up. you remember that? do you remember donald trump on air force one calling everybody together and concocting a lie to send to "the new york times"? what was he lying about? contact with russians and trump tower because any believed -- and don junior said, i love it -- that they were going to get dirt on hillary clinton. i'm not even bringing up all the criminal indictments of the campaign chairman paul manafort. i'm not even bringing up the
indictments of long-term deputy rick gates or the indictments of foreign policy adviser george papadopoulos. >> i had to say his name it's been so long. who lied to investigators seeking information about what? the french? no. the russians. russi russian interference time and time and again. i'm just curious, what was the media supposed to do when donald trump lied about meeting with russians? the vice president lied about campaign meetings with russia? the attorney general lied about meetings with russians? jared kushner lied about meeting with russians. george papadopoulos lied about meeting with russians. i could go on and on. but i won't. i'll just say the media did a pretty damn good job. >> the media did its job.
>> and i understand, donald you're writing your enemy list process, telling people who they can and can't now you tweet again, enemy of the people? is that anything like the witch hunt? how many times did you bring up the witch hunt? and now suddenly robert mueller, he is a good and honorable man. >> until you see his report maybe. >> then you will see his report. >> listen we haven't seen the report. >> he will be a witch again. >> lites not exonerate. >> let's remind everybody there were 27 indictments in the witch hunt, almost 200 charges in this witch hunt. we had the president's own director of homeland security say vladimir putin was trying to influence our election and undermine our democracy in 2016. we had the cia director saying it. we had the director of national intelligence saying the same thing. we had everyone saying the same
thing. so you all can, you know, do whatever you do. but i can tell you "the new york times," the "washington post", the "wall street journal," newspapers also, yes, david brooks, even people on tv are going to keep doing their job and going to keep following the story. and now to defend the media for the next hour et cetera let's bring in elizabeth. you know mistakes are sometimes made by "the new york times" by the "washington post" by this show. i make mistakes every five or ten minutes. it's easier that way. but again, i don't -- i don't, elizabeth, you tell me when you have a president, vice president, national security adviser, attorney general, president's closest aides, longtime political -- all lying about the same thing, about contacts they had with russia during 2016, the president is concontexting a story on air force one.
that's a lie about adoptions what are you supposed to do. >> it's- dsh you've said a lot, show joe. first of all i don't want to make any comments about my colleague david brooks. he is an opinion columnist. >> so i will leave out ut of the truthiness i just said. my question directed to you, as my witness, is very limited. ands it just me and you here and i'm just asking, what were you and members of "the new york times" and the "washington pos"" and the "wall street journal" to do as you saw one administration official after another administration official lie about contacts they had with the russians in the 2016 campaign. >> obviously we wrote many, many stories about it. me journalist would write what we did. as we pointed out there were 27 indictments. early on i remember in february of 2017 right after the president was in office, we were
learning about contacts that his campaign had with russians. of course we wrote that story. that was an explosive story. that was the beginning, as i remember we wrote about contacts that michael flynn had russians. it was -- they were very, very important stories. and we shall not forget that was part of the -- that was a big part of this investigation. i am very proud of our coverage. i have no problems with it. we kept on the ball. and all of these -- all this sort of -- -- all of the attacks now i mean let's see what the mueller says these are attacked about a summary of the mueller report. >> a letter. >> a report that we haven't seen. >> it was explosive because it is david ignatius. you broke the michael flynn angle back then. should you have not done that? gosh you started this whole thing? i mean this is real what happened. >> when you fine out. >> the closest adviser during the campaign. >> and the incoming national
security adviser lied to the fbi about contacts he had with the russians. who in the world is not going to report this. >> it was crucial to report it. but this was back in the beginning of 2017 in january. and i published a column saying at the end of does the incoming national security adviser michael flynn had talked with the russian ambassador kizlyak, perhaps about removing sanctions that had been applied by barack obama to punish russia for hacking of our election. and it subsequently turned out that flynn was -- was being untruthful about that, both publicly and to the vice president. back then my hope was that there would be some kind of investigation to establish the answer to the question i couldn't answer a a journalist. which was what happened here? what was this about? what was the larger plot?
so when robert mueller was appointed special counsel i as a squurnlist i think most of us felt, okay we're going to have a chance here to get answers. and now this last weekend we've begun to get answers. we've had a an initial summary of the report. mueller has found that that incident, flynn talking to kizlyak and a whole bunch of others, while they may have been disturbing. just because something isn't dietable doesn't mean it's not wrong. but mueller has decided that he doesn't see a conspiracy that wraps those things together. i waited for that conclusion as a journalist. >> with the russian government. with the russian government. so i think one thing we see o say as journalists is sometimes we get the ball started rolling. we discover facts. and then people in law enforcement with subpoena power, the ability to see things we can't, follow it up. and here is his conclusion. i want to read it. >> exactly. >> but there is no idea that there is an aposition that there
is a fundamental conflict between mueller's conclusions and what we try to do as journalists i don't buy that. >> it doesn't exist. >> i think it's more per initials than this. i think trump and his people are trying to discredit the entire canon of russia related reporting and discredit -- >> right and if you watched last night you would have heard a lot of the clowns actually suggest that any russian interference with the 2016 campaign. >> right. >> was a scam. >> right. >> ignoring everything that donald trump's intel community told him and the world. >> they were sounding like vladimir putin. >> by the way they were sounding like russian state run television last night. >> think of what they're trying to discredit totally separate from the issue of collusion, for instance trump's business deals with moscow in the pursuit of the tower. that has nothing to do with inclusion. it has to do with compromise. >> right. >> the positions he took during the rnc convention to change the
platform, the inauguration donors, nothing to do with collusion, has to do with whether there was foreign influence money thrown in the trump inauguration committee. but more importantly a second part to the story with nothing to do with trump, which is russia's frts to interfere with the election which are now well established by mueller. those things were produced during the course of journalism around russia's interference in 2016. we got insight into what was happening at the direction of vladimir putin and his team. knows are are not discredited in fact fal validated by the from what we know the bar memo of the report. but because the trump campaign is taking a broad stroke of criticism of the report. they are trying to discredit those stories. i think it's incredibly per initials to allow them to say that is the modern day of equivalent of the iraq wmd story which led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands. >> we know what they are doing. >> they are overreaching which politicians all do.
they think they have a victory. they are overreaching right now. the entire report is going to come out. abthen they're going to be eating the words they are saying right now. this is a cycle that happens time and again in politics. and you just -- you wind chill them on twitter. you watch them on tv overreaching. >> the president hasn't made a secret of the goal of his attacks on the press. the goal of his attacks on the press is to set up a situation where people believe him over the media. and where if there is a negative story -- i mean he essentially told this to journalist leslie stahl and relate tld story. the issue is regardless of the attacks we still have a job to do. reporters still have a job to do. there are a lot of unanswered questions, accepting robert mueller's conclusion david as you point out he found no conspiracy, and what actually happened. >> and the whole -- again i'm sorry -- the lawyer in me has to say every time you say that with the russian government.
>> with the government. >> limited with the russian government. >> but what actually happened? i mean, if he couldn't commit the conspiracy -- or rather if he couldn't have obstructed justice because there was no underlying conspiracy, maybe fine. but what -- why? were they lying all of though lies you laid laid out? will the report answer that question. there has to be a recognize. a kid as young as three years old as a ren for lying. >> not only that, not only were any lying about that, dan, and why did the president, vice president, national security adviser, jared, the attorney general, why did one of the top foreign policy advisers according to donald trump, rick gates, paul manafort why did they lie about russia? >> look, there is an iron law when it comes to talking with politics which is never explain something with male voelens when incompetence is the story. and i think --
>> you are going with my mr. mcgoo splngs that donald trump is mr. mcgoo. >> the entire campaign was -- was a whole collection of mr. mcgoos. i think one virtue you if barr's summary is accurate, is we can step back and remind ourselves that the trump campaign in 2016 was in bizarre collection of, you know -- of hacks and cronies and self-seekers. and so it's not surprising in retrospect. first there are individuals in the campaign who sought to personally profit from what was going on, which oskly explains what michael flynn was doing, for example. but second it's also in the end not surprising that it turns out they lied about russia contacts, because that would imply the campaign knew what it was doing in the first place. or that the right hand knew what
the left-hand was doing. and so i do think in one way, you know, david ignatius trying to find the plot. one of the dangerouses is dumbing that there must be an overarching stories that explains the meerd number of contacts between the trump campaign and russia and the russian government or russian individuals and it might turn out these people didn't know what they were doing. they were actually incompetent half wits who lucked into wins the presidency. and so i do i think it's weather remember zblog by the way, dan, i mean we saw the campaign early on. that is actually what happened. but why was it just russians that they were lying about? which weren't they lying about contacts with chinese? why weren't they lying contacts with saudis? why was it everybody in the administration got caught lying about one country. >> first of all i'm not sure they're correct they haven't
lied about the other governments. information came out you know has come out since the presidency about the degree which jared kushner met with various people from the qatar. i think the russian maybe were more active in reaching out to the trump campaign than any of the other governments. that's one of the important things we learned from the summary was the intelligence community was right, right to warn everybody in october 2016 that the russians from trying to influence the election. they were right in january 2017 saying the russian government clearly wanted to tilt the election playing field in favor of the trump campaign. everything barr said in terms of mueller's report confirms that. >> and so maybe the russians just saw the trump campaign as a bunch of incompetents easy
targets. >> i think dan is absolutely right. i think the trump kban was about division, driving wedges in american society. that's how he campaigned. and that is exactly what the russian covert action campaign threw hacking, internet postings was about, take a country divided and make it worse. >> right. >> that's what they have done consistently from 2016 to today. and i think -- we need to step become and look at in attack on our politics. you know, here we were all waiting for the mueller report. with this idea we'd come together around the mueller report, finally have some answers. and we're as dwoid as ever. >> we don't have the mueller report. >> i'm just -- >> we haven't seen it. >> we do need to understand this is in the context of a adversary trying to weaken us by dividing us. >> by the way, an adversary who saw donald trump come on in show in december of 2015. >> um-hum. >> and actually talk about
vladimir putin in dpleing terms. >> incredible. >> saying he was a strong leader and when we said he kills a lot of journalists. and fast forward to helsinki he behaved in a way no president behaved. >> all of these contexts, the russians reaching out constantly to the trump campaign and associates not once did anybody in the campaign report those contacts to the fbi. >> not once. >> which is what you are supposed to do. >> there have been people that have said sam stein that other campaigns have -- no. i've been around this town 25 years. i have never once not a single person. >> yes. >> that would be -- that's been approached by a foreign government by foreign adversary and didn't immediately report it to -- al gore in 2000 when he got. >> the debate precip tapes.
>> yes. >> he immediately reached out to the fbi. >> we also -- >> donald trump did not think he was going to win the election. that's why -- i he developed in ties along the way. >> but there is one major component here which is they knew, the russians knew from history that trump sprused business deals in russia we only know about a us that of dogged good reporting to bring it back. when people sit here and say this was entirely discredited work of reporting that's faresicle. there was immense public interest. there was public service in detailing to extent to which the business ties with russia complicate and continue to complicate his presidency. >> the narrative this was a media miss feeds into the white house lie that this is a total exon ration. and that can't happy with will end this reading from the latest column from the "washington post" sbiemgtsed serious journalists should proud of not bullied over the russia reporting writing there are calls for reckoning on news
coverage. here goes. i reckon that american citizens would have been far worse off if skilled reporters hadn't dug into the connections between trump's associates up to and including his son don junior and russians. that reporting has never been invalidated. i reckon that the fell johannious lie lying to the about the trump tower in moscow remains a scandal. we know this because journalists were doing jobs aggressively. i reckon the hards nosed reporting about reporting about michael t. flynn roundly denied before proved was an early sign of what was to follow. it's important to acknowledge the value of the serious journalism eism because there is a real risk that news organizations take the edges off the coverage of the subject now. serious news organizations should not allow themselves to be bullied about the important work they have done and must
continue to do it. and we will be waiting to see the report. >> everybody stay with us. still ahead with on "morning joe" we hear from two members of congress on all of the senate republican, john kennedien a house democrat ro khanna. they are joining the conversation. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. g "morning " we'll be right back. - [woman] with my shark, i deep clean messes like this. this and even this. but i don't have to clean this, because the self-cleaning brush roll removes hair, while i clean. - [announcer] shark, the vacuum that deep cleans, now cleans itself. ♪ cal: we saved our money and now, we get to spend it - our way. valerie: but we worry if we have enough to last. ♪ cal: ellen, our certified financial planner™ professional, helps us manage our cash flow and plan for the unexpected.
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you know reliable support when you have it, and that dependability is what we want to give our customers. at comcast, it's my job to constantly monitor our network. prevent problems, and to help provide the most reliable service possible. my name is tanya, i work in the network operations center for comcast. we are working to make things simple, easy and awesome. err the fisa warrant application on four different applications, what role did the dossier play? was to it primary source of the information given to the court? was it supplemental? outcome determinative? i want to hear from mr. orr, why he warned people you may not want to rely on christopher steele. i want to know the role comey
played in the process. i want to find out was the only reason you recused yourself was because of the to your mack meeting with loretta lynch? i want to find out the rules about the counterintelligence investigation. whatkind of defensive briefing did you give to the candidate if any at all? those are the kind of questions i want to know about. when it comes to the fiesa warrant, the clinton campaign, the counterintelligence investigation it's pretty much been swept under the rug except by a few republicans in the house. those days are over. going forward, hopefully in a bipartisan fashion, we will begin to unpack the other side of the story. you see this is fascinating. >> i have such a headache. >> this is forfeiting. this is for an audience of one thp this is ground covered. >> do in the oval office. >> you should judge just. >> this barred by everything else. >> donald get distracted you can put up -- like one side of the oval office you can just butt up
that c-span background and a microphone and tell him you are live on television that way you get your audience of one and don't embarrass yourself in trnt of the rest of us because of course lindsey, this ground has been covered pb the fisa warrants have been covered. if you want to do it again and embarrass yourself you can. by the way, you can keep talking about the dossier, you know that wasn't the beginning of the investigation. >> oh. >> you know that. so why would you -- i mean -- listen here is the dole. this is what you should figure out. because this is what americans need to know. and i bet people -- i bet republicans that will vote in your primary next year are going to really want to know this. who was the one that told john mccain he should turn the dossier over to the fbi? that, buddy -- that person has a lot to answer to to the voters
of south carolina. we got to figure that out. >> speak with reporters yesterday graham said his late colleague senator john mccain showed him the document when mccain received it back in 2016. the senator says he recommended to mccain that he give to the fbi. >> hold on. >> hold, wait, what? did you no he this casey? >> did you know that lindsey graham was the one that told mccain to give it to the fbi. >> not until he told us yesterday. >> have you ever heard that graham. >> no. >> was the one telling mccain that he should give the dossier to the fbi. >> no months of trump going after mccain for this we find out that graham was the falter. >> elizabeth, did you or anybody. >> you got to -- let me ask the question and stop interrupting. >> elizabeth, can o did you or anybody at the washington bureau know that lindsey graham was the one that cold could john mccain
he should give the dossier to the fbi. >> we did not. >> thank you so much. >> david you know everything. now this is shocking to me that lindsey graham -- at least he said that he told john mccain that he should give the dossier to the fbi. did you know that? >> i did not know that. but i did know lindsey graham once upon time believed that john mccain was the most principled politician in the country. >> tell lindsey not to worry because donald doesn't watch. >> don't worry donald never watches our show except every day. >> which is why he tweeted about the press and people watching our show. >> it's all good. >> lindsey, let's hope he is not watching right now, because -- and let's hope none of your republican voters in south carolina know that you were actually the one into sat and watched donald trump trash the memory of an american war hero
for weeks and didn't let him know or your voters in south carolina know that you were the one that told john mccain to pass the dossier on to the fbi? and because you didn't, this is what john mccain's family had to watch over the past couple of weeks. >> john mccain received the dsh a fake and phoney dossier. did you hear about the dossier? he didn't call pay. he turned it over to the fbi, hoping to put me in jeopardy. and that's not the nicest thing to do. you know when these people -- because i'm a very loyal person -- >> why did he turn it over to the fbi? i forget. >> because that's what you do cheh -- i mean it seems like the right thing to do because it was so -- it is the right thing. >> no, wrng because lindsey graham told him to turn it over. >> lindsey graham told him it
was the right thing to do. >> i have confidence john mccain would have decided that was the right thing to do. >> mike. >> this is sad when you see lindsey graham standing up there and trying to lead the charge to use institutions of our government, the united states senate, some of the committees in the united states senate and eventually probably the judiciary as instruments of revenge for what they perceive to be a slight that happened to the president of the united states? and it raises the question of who among them? would it be lindsey graham, donald trump? who among them is going to gina haspel and chris wray and apologize to the american intelligence community and the american investigative community and the fbi for the maligning of both institutions over the course of two years? and dan dress ner raised an incredibly important point. these people are looking backward. lindsey graham talking about reopening this and that
investigation. but the idea of competence going forward is going to be a huge issue in the 2020 election. because right now, as dan you aloud lewded aalluded to we have chauncy gardener who became president of the united states. and what are we going to do about it. >> i wish we had chauncy gardener, more benign than the current occupant of the oval office. but it strikes me as ironic for the all the administrations accusations that it was the democrats trying to relitigate the election. going forward it's the republicans going against hillary clinton in 2020. that doesn't make sense. but i think if the report conforms to what barr said, there is a way in which this is a gift to the democrats because it removes two thorny problems for them going forward. the first was if the report had been damning, if the report had
said trump colludewood the russians we would have faced impeachment crisis. and there were questions about whether or not the democrats were that enthusiastic about impeachment, particularly nancy pelosi given we are starting the 2020 election cycle. that's the other way in which this is good news. because if you pay attention to what the 2020 candidates have been talking about, the one thing they haven't been talking about is russia. they haven't been talking about that element of the trump administration. they want to run on their own issues. they want to run on the way in which trump managed or mismanaged the federal government while he has been in office. they'll be able to focus on those things. in some whiches it puts the russia thing at least somewhat to one side, which means by the way you get to run on various aspects in which trump is rcued up running the country for the last two -- two and a half years. >> elizabeth. >> yes, i mean that's a very good point. nancy pelosi today is sbrusing the new health care -- the democrat's health care plan. she is just moving on.
we have found over and over again that out in the country people are not that invested or interested in the russia investigation we focused on the last two years. and look at what happened with the mid-terms. it was health care that was the big issue that drove democrats if the mid-terms. so the markets are moving on as the republicans seem to be going backward and investigating the investigators. >> i was in new hampshire this we could with amy klobuchar and moments after we learned that robert mueller concluded his investigation. and the we'res were on health care, climate change, even middle east peace. it's kerr will i something on the radar of democratic voters. they want to know the answer but that's what they want. they want an answer. and once the question is ens aed then to make the vote on all the other issues. >> every poll that you took before this said that nobody cared about russia. they wanted to know about health care. and we heard this going into the 2018 election. >> well to elizabeth's point with he did a piece yesterday
where we asked the former secretary of the dccc how many tv ads and mail ads running in 2018 that referenced the russia scandal. it was zero. it was a digital ad but the answer was zero. i will caveat this one small -- one element that does need to be addressed while russia may not matter politically, functionally it could have huge impact on the 2020 elections. one thing we have not seen as a by-product the mueller report is any concrete legislative action or the administrative action that could deter future attempts at hacking and publishing this stuff online. there has been better situational awareness. but in terms of resources there hasn't been much commitment. and one thing we got from the reporting there has been no commitment from the trump campaign not to use hacked material in the 2020 campaign. every democratic campaign said they would not knowingly used hacked teerlg in the 200 campaign but not trump's. >> the bottom line is that donald trump would love to run
against the news media. we are his favorite target. and in some ways we're the most successful target. >> beating us up seems to work. we have a lot of enemies. >> it's branding for him. but we need to avoid taking the bait. there some important issues facing the country. he wants to make it a daily circus about how teshlg the press it. okay when we final willy vermont mueller report here are the conclusions let's talk about the country's problems. >> elizabeth, daniel dresner. thank you. and "new york times" columnist liam joins us from ewith his take aways from the barr letter. "morning joe" is back in a moment. letter. "morning joe" is back in a moment - [woman] with my shark, i deep clean messes like this.
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>> yeah, that woman was every single liberal in the country all weekend long. >> come on. >> all right joining us now reporter for the "washington post", eugene scott and op-ed columnist for "the new york times" david lianhart his top take aways from the letter we haven't seen the report. >> number one this is not the report. we need to see the report. william barr is is not an objective source. he, for donald trump, been skeptical of this, disgain are daneful investigation. number two the critic. >> announcer: i like two tp two is good. >> the president's critics need to accept the possibility the likelihood that there was not any meaningful collusion between the trump campaign and the russians ohhen campaign strategy. >> sure. >> number three the president is unfit for office. when i wrote a piece a few
months ago laying out why he was unfit we talked about it here. i had four reasons, none about russia. about him using the president for personal enrichment. undermining democracy and so we know he is unfit for office. this is not a test of whether he is unfit. >> and read his column in the "washington post" today. goes through a couple of reasons nothing to do with russia. so might also back that up. >> and ewe jeugene. the president talked about evil deeds, talked about critics being, quote, treasonous and said they would be taken care of. what did he say? what was the word? they need to be -- something will happen. >> looked into. >> looked into. they need to be looked into. he is writing an enemy list. now trying to tell people who they can and candidate have on the television show.
this cochems from the same guy that's also talked about looking up fcc licenses and also happily stripped congress of their article i section 8 and 9 pows. >> we are we remember during the campaign there were people aaffiliatewood the kpp that omarosa. and they were keeping an enemy list. and that's been consistent on his side of the aisle. people not supporting him the which he wanted to be supported. we remember after the campaign ended the president during the inauguration promised to be a unifier and uniter and bringing the country together. we know that's difficult when more than 70% of americans views owe you as the most advicive president in history. this could be a time where he says i was done i don't think wrong i've been exonerated which he hasn't. but this would be a great time
to get to together to make america great again. but that's not his focus. >> if i have criticism, sam of anything that the media has done over the past couple of days, it's -- or the past couple years, it's everybody jumped to conclusions. >> right. >> like everybody on the right jumped to conclusions. everybody on the left jumped to conclusions. seeing a summary by a man who got his job by telling donald trump he was hostile to the mueller investigation. >> yes. >> he zided to draw a conclusion on obstruction that robert mueller wanted congress to draw. >> right. >> he used some of the tightest most restrictive language in defending donald trump. he acted like the attorney general donald trump has always wanted. >> yes. >> he has always want add roy cohen. he always wanted an advocate. somebody who would aggressively do everything he could to just represent the president and not the people of the united states. so. >> yes. >> if that's how barr wants to live his life, that's up to
barr. history will judge him. >> yes. >> right? but our job is to wait and to read the damn report first. >> totallyup. there is a rich irony in which the media of accused of jumping to conclusions by collusion. >> by people jumping to conclusions about everything. >> and it's fair to step back and pause. and recognize which we fail to do often, is that things are nuanced. collusion is a tricky legal term in its own rate. but what is collusion is it talking about the committee? sharing polling data with russian intel officers? is it changing the platform because you have a policy objective that you want to benefit russia for? so, again, everything is knew aunsed. and people need to take a deep breath and wait to see the report. what i predict -- what i suspect will come out and see a it's a much more difficult situation to i a certain. you'll see evidence that we
didn't know about that shows a persecution manipulate, a closeness to russian officials. but it won't be in the prosecutorial term a collusion offense. it's something else. >> something else. >> i have two big questions. what was the standard used to determine the collusion question. was it beyond a reasonable doubt? was it a prosecutable standard or was it something else? and second of all, what did robert mueller want the country to do on obstruction? because that is where bill barr stepped in and he said with rod rosenstein, we are going to make a decision about what the country should do on this and it's not clear that robert mueller thought that rosenstein and barr should make that decision. did robert mueller intend for congress to make that decision. >> hold that thought. we also mentioned your column will have some of that as well. we will have that conversation after a break. we will have that conversation after a break. us as people.
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- [narrator] custom ink has hundreds of products and free shipping. upload your logo or start your design today at customink.com. upload your logo or start your design today you know reliable support when you have it, and that dependability is what we want to give our customers. at comcast, it's my job to constantly monitor our network. prevent problems, and to help provide the most reliable service possible. my name is tanya, i work in the network operations center for comcast. we are working to make things simple, easy and awesome. so, kasie, when are we going
to see barr on the hill? when is congress going to get a copy of this investigation? >> that's the big question, joe. they're pushing first to try to see more. they want to see the mueller report. they have sent a letter to the department of justice saying we want this by april the 2nd. i think there really is a sense of urgency around this. the longer it takes to learn more about what happened here, the less the impact of any potential new information we might learn. so i would expect them to press on that. we know that there are negotiations under way for when bill barr might come up to testify. he's the one that they really want to hear from. i think possibly if that testimony went completely awry or something happened that you might see them call bob mueller. there are some liberal democrats who are calling for that. but it's been a very conscious decision on the part of the democratic leadership bill barr is the weak piece of this puzzle. they have spent the last two years building up robert mueller's credibility. >> while the dems do their job on capitol hill, there's also
2020 to think about. i mentioned joe's column for "the washington post." democratic candidates can talk about all the indictments and charges the special counsel's office brought against russian nationals and trump advisers, but most americans will tune them out. better now for trump's antagonists to focus on the stream of lies constantly spewed by the president, about policies that impact americans' lives every day. trump spent his campaign for president lying about the border wall, immigration, health care, medicare, trade, nuclear threats, terrorism, deficits, tax cuts, and countless other things. but unlike his mens today tee related to all things russia, trump's lies about policies actually matter to americans. so yes, democrats, attorney general william p. barr's letter to congress may have ruined your weekend. but if you focus on the present needs of american voters instead of the past misdeeds of russian
actors, you just may keep this unfit commander in chief from serving another four long years. that would make the shock of this weekend a harmless, constant memory. >> david, democrats should be reminding voters every day that donald trump promised universal health care. >> yes. >> he promised they'd get better health care, that their deductibles would be lower, that their premiums would be lower. he's lied on all fronts and now he's going to try to destroy the affordable care act in full. >> and not just lied, but failed, right? >> miserably. >> he hasn't done the things he said he would do. there's an interesting idea that the way you beat a populist like donald trump is treat him like a normal politician. the american people know that donald trump is this outrageous guy. they elected him anyway. so what the democrats need to do is treat him as a normal politician, not say he's outrageous, he's a bad guy, say he's failed. that's the argument that you're making. a lot of democrats not on
twitter basically get this. that's why they ran the midterm campaign they ran. >> and eugene, failed by the only standards that donald trump set for himself in 2016. the trade war. he said obama was a sucker because we had a high trade deficit. we've got the highest trade deficit ever. he promised to balance the budget. we had the highest monthly deficit ever. last month, he said he was going to pay off the national debt. we've got the highest national debt ever. mexico, the wall. they were going to pay for it. please! republicans wouldn't even pay for it when they had a chance. >> when donald trump is fact checked by other republicans he fails. we're in tax season right now and many americans who thought they were going to see big returns in fact will not. the president campaigned saying this would be the case. if we remember during the 2018 elections, we had surveys with democratic voters, but voters across the board talking about the issues that mattered most to them. russia didn't even crack the top
five most of the time. it was immigration, taxes and the economy. >> eugene scott, david, thank you both. still ahead, president trump accuses his critics in the russia investigation of treasonous things. just hours after his press secretary went on national television and reminded everybody that treason is punishable by death. we'll dig into the president's post-mueller messaging. plus, since they don't have the mueller report to read, members of congress have some time on their hands and there's a lot happening. on capitol hill right now, kasie hunt runs through it for us, ahead on "morning joe." we're back in two minutes. this year, we're taking it up a notch. so in this commercial we see two travelers at a comfort inn with a glow around them, so people watching will be like, "wow, maybe i'll glow too if i book direct at choicehotels.com". who glows? just say, badda book. badda boom. nobody glows. he gets it. always the lowest price,
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this and even this.hark, i deep clean messes like this. but i don't have to clean this, because the self-cleaning brush roll removes hair, while i clean. - [announcer] shark, the vacuum that deep cleans, now cleans itself. the media and democrats have called the president an agent of a foreign government. but that is an accusation equal to treason, which is punishable by death in this country. >> okay. so the white house press secretary is shocked, stunned and deeply saddened that anyone would ever be so irresponsible
to raise the prospect -- >> this is america. >> -- of treason. >> this is america. >> when talking about the russia probe. >> you don't do that in america. >> right, boss? >> there are a lot of people out there that have done some very, very evil things, very bad things, i would say treasonous things against our country. >> okay. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, march 26th. with us we have columnist and associate editor for "the washington post" david ignatius. former chief of staff at the cia, national security analyst jeremy bash. nbc chief foreign affairs correspondent and host of "andrea mitchell reports" andrea mitchell just back from jerusalem literally, former chief of staff to the dccc and former director of strategic communications for hillary clinton's campaign, adrian elrod and jonathan swan is with us.
also with us msnbc contributor mike barnicle from new york city. good to have you all on board. >> so, last night i was watching some news. >> you shouldn't have done that. you watched the wrong news. >> after watching some of the most ridiculous commentary -- >> it was. >> -- i had enough and i turned over for the first time in two years to american masters. and i saw the incredible story, i didn't know it, of sammy davis jr. realize, it was a little late. i was a little worked up, though, because the commentary from people who push the seth rich conspiracy murder, the commentary from people on journalism who have said some of the most vile things about women, some of the most vile things about immigrants, some of the most vile things in defense of donald trump at all costs,
unbelievable. so i just pose this question to you. i pose this question to everyone watching, either now or later on the internet, what would you have had the media do over the past two years when donald trump lied throughout the 2016 campaign about his contacts with russia. now, why would donald trump lie about russia? why would the man who was coming in to have the most powerful foreign policy position, the national security advisor, general flynn, why did he lie to the fbi in december about his contacts with swedes? no. no, no, with russians. and that wasn't even a russian accent. somehow the french thing got in there. why in january would mike pence go on a sunday show and lie and say actually nobody in the trump
campaign ever talked to any russians during the campaign. why would he do that? when telling the truth would have been so much easier. why would the attorney general of the united states before becoming attorney general lie to members of his own senate about having contacts with the russians? and let me just stop you right here and ask a question. what should the media have done when everybody it seems that was close to the president, everybody that i was told were the president's closest advisers in 2016, everybody who i was told flew on the plane with trump all across america was the press to report on when all of these lies were tumbling out of the mouths of all of these trump aides? should we have reported on horse farms in kentucky? or done investigations into how
maybe eating tree bark would lower our cholesterol? what would you have had us do? i don't just say this to people on the right who have found common cause with conspiracy theorists over seth rich or sandy hook, i'm saying this to established journalists who are wringing their hands and saying this is worse than wmd. is it really? is that why george papadopoulos lied to the fbi and got sent to jail? is that why the national security advisor lied? >> and paul manafort. >> his campaign manager not only got caught lying to the fbi, but after he was in talking to the fbi got caught lying again. donald trump's second in command behind paul manafort got caught lying to the fbi. and then when he was delivering
his proffer, he got caught lying to the fbi. the man that donald trump knew longer than anybody else in politics, you see him on the lower right-hand corner. yeah, you know, the guy with the nixon tattoo on his back got caught lying to the fbi about what? bowling? huh? the best places to get sangria in san diego? no! the russians. they lied about the russians nonstop for two years. oh, let's see, maybe the press, maybe "the new york times," maybe "the washington post," maybe "the wall street journal," maybe they should have just ignored the fact that don junior met with a bunch of russians who said they were going to give him info, dirt on hillary, and he
said i love it. not no, wait a second, i better contact the fbi, because that's what everybody else would have done. i love it. maybe they should have ignored the fact that the president called everybody around on air force one and concocted a lie. let's say it's about adoptions. now, i just ask, what was the media supposed to do at that point? shrug it off? no. you know the answer. and just because you're sucking up to donald trump an just because power is all that matters to you and just because you will justify everything that man does and just because you are krucorrupt, just because yoe not a journalist, just because you have sold your soul to a personality cult, don't knock reporters at "the new york times" or "the washington post" or "the wall street journal" or the broadcast networks for doing their job right. >> which they'll continue to do. >> which they will continue to
do. so you can keep lying, you can keep saying your misogynistic statements, you can keep saying that hispanics are breeders or they bring diseases to america. you can keep whipping up theories like the seth rich theory. that really -- that was great for him family, wasn't it? way to go. you're lecturing -- you're lecturing "the washington post" and "the new york times" on journalism? and by the way, if you write for these papers, and there's some people i respect that write for these papers that have actually written columns condemning the media's behavior, be ashamed of yourself. be ashamed of yourself. were there bad actors? yeah. and guess what, we know who they are. we won't have them back on our show. but there are bad actors -- guess what, i've got bad news. there are bad actors in your house. and a lot of you that were bitching and moaning last night and being morally self righte s
righteous, you are the bad actor. so save your breath. wee not going to divert our eyes. this president lies more than any other president in the united states. he's lied about universal health care, he promised he'd give it. he didn't give it. he lied about the wall. he said mexico was going to pay for it. the mexicans wouldn't pay for it. hell, the republicans wouldn't even pay for it when they owned washington! we're going to keep talking about that. tax cuts. he said he was going to help the working man, then he went down to mar-a-lago that night and said to robert kraft, i don't know if jeffrey epstein was down there, but whoever the hell was around his table down there, he said i just made you all a lot of money today. no, we're not going to divert our eyes. damn the torpedos, full steam ahead, follow the story where it leads us. david ignatius. >> pow. >> should we talk about tree bark this morning and what it can do to lower your cholesterol? i'm not going to get into this much more.
i don't want us to sit here talking about what the media did and didn't do. by the way, i don't listen to the conspiracy theorists and the hatemongerers and misogynists. i just happened to stumble across it on my way to pbs because i'm such a refined redneck. but it was too much for me. what put me over the top is when i saw somebody that i respected that wrote for "the new york times" actually parroting the attacks on the mainstream media for actually covering an administration packed with liars. and again, lying not about sweden, not about their last trip to nova scotia, but lying about russia. >> joe, i'm glad to hear a full-throated defense of our business. people in the news business have been trying to serve our readers and viewers. this presidency is unlike any
other that we've seen. we have to go back to the beginning of this and remember that russia was running a covert action to subvert our political system. we had an adversary literally that wanted to take us down, divide us against each other, and we have been trying to figure out what are the strands of that. >> footnote and i'll shut up and let you finish. but footnote for these people. what do we do when kirstjen nielsen, the president's own head of homeland security said vladimir putin was trying to subvert democracy in 2016. trump's director of intelligence said it, trump's cia director said it, trump's military people said it, everybody said it. >> and so does the mueller report. >> the mueller report says it and they're acting like there wasn't a russian attempt to subvert american democracy. >> what i found really troubling, i want to say sickening, was the russians
trying to say that they were exonerated by the mueller report. >> if you watch fox news, you would think they were. >> what mueller told us about russia's campaign to subvert our country is some of the most frightening material that he gathered. to this day donald trump and members of his administration really haven't accepted, owned up to how serious this was. people in my business make mistakes every day and we made mistakes in some of our coverage or looking at those and thinking about them. but the basic point you made that we are out there trying to find out the truth with an administration that doesn't always respect it is right. you know, people in my business have to keep going forward as hard as they can with that job. coming up on "morning joe," the trump team wants to dictate not only what the media covers but also who covers it. the president's re-election campaign is now pushing producers over which guests the networks should be booking. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.
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xfinity watchathon week. free starting april 8th. boop! welcome back to "morning joe." there's still so much we don't know about the fine print inside the mueller report. in fact we haven't seen the report. so jeremy bash, what do we know right now about where things stand? >> here's what we know. we know the president asked for russian assistance. we know he received russian assistance. we know he benefited from russian assistance. we know he rewarded russian assistance. so what i think mueller is telling us is that the trump campaign and donald trump didn't participate and assist the russians in their interference and based on that, that does not rise to the level of a crime. if you take that story in its totality and analyze it from the lens of national security as andrea pointed out and david has been reporting, this constitutes
a grave threat to our democracy. it's not just what happened, it's what will happen in the future. so we shouldn't draw the conclusion that if you ask for the assistance of an adversary, you receive it, you benefit from it and you reward it, you're okay, because it's going to be a green light for people to do it again. >> by the way, and you lie about it, david, as the president did on air force one. you sit down, get everybody around, and say, okay, this is the lie we're going to tell "the new york times" and the world. >> there is the enduring mystery of why, if he was so innocent, he has acted so guilty for two years. that's going to take historians to sort out probably. >> and it matters. >> it matters a lot. but i think the basic point that we're all making is that we need to do our jobs, unthreading this presidency, trying to help readers and viewers understand what's true and what isn't. trying to help people understand this incredible, you know,
full-scale assault on our politics by russia to try to encourage division in the country. we need to keep doing that. if we slow down on that because we're backed off by the aftermath of the mueller report, we will look back on that really, i think, with shame. so it's just one of those moments where you have to keep doing -- >> what you're doing. >> -- what you're doing and kind of just be confident that that's what your readers and viewers want you to do. >> after the election the media is a great punching bag. this is not like the election at all. jonathan swan, the white house has released a press release or some sort of message to news -- this is the trump campaign, to news outlets as to who not to book. >> yes. i tweeted it out yesterday. they sent a memo from the trump campaign to -- they told me all cable -- sorry, all networks. i said does that include fox? and they said all networks. but it was basically trying to single out democratic officials
and guests who have said that the president colluded with russia on air. you know, it was a gimmick, as one official admitted to me, but they're obviously trying to push this. trump has said privately that he wants people fired over this, that he wants people who are in the media fired over this. and lindsey graham told me last night that he promised the president at palm beach over the weekend that he would look into the origins of the investigation and investigate the fisa process. so i think we have yet to see lindsey graham do that in his capacity as senate judiciary chair. >> so what do democrats do now? because it's interesting, and we've said this on the air so this isn't monday morning quarterbacking. we've said it all along that nobody in america cared about the russia investigation. nobody was asking about collusion. in fact democrats told us that back in september when we went to a meeting to ask them how
they were preparing for 2018. and none other than adam schiff said i've got to conduct the investigation, but i will tell you nobody in my district is talking about russia. it matters, but not to voters. so how do they move forward in 2020? >> well, i think it's a two-track system here. i think number one, you've got to make sure that democrats conduct oversight in congress. that is their job, their constitutional responsibility. you let pelosi, you let schiff, all the chairman and chairwomen conduct the investigations. but on the other side when it comes to 2020 candidates, you focus on the issues because the issues are on the side of the democratic party. health care, the economy, jobs, raising wages. that is how democrats flipped the house in 2018, picked up hundreds of down ballot seats across the country. that is how we can win in 2020. to the impeachment wing of my party that has been so adamant about taking trump down via impeachment, let this be a
warning sign. you've got to take him down on the issues and we can do it. the issues or on our side. coming up on "morning joe" dan coats laughed outloud when he heard the president was inviting putin to the white house. that didn't sit well in the west wing and we have more on the fallout in the white house. "morning joe" will be right back. "morning joe" will be right back i switched to liberty mutual, because they let me customize my insurance. and as a fitness junkie, i customize everything, like my bike, and my calves. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪
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we have some breaking news. the white house has announced on twitter that vladimir putin is coming to the white house in the fall. >> say that again. >> vladimir putin coming -- >> okay. that's going to be special. >> i've got to say he's got great comic timing. >> that was cute, yeah. that was an incredible moment, andrea. we shouldn't follow this story. that would be such a waste of time. nbc news has learned from current and former senior trump administration officials that director of national intelligence dan coats was on the verge of resigning at the
end of last year due to frustrations with the president on a slew of issues. but he was talked out of it by his closest ally in the white house, vice president mike pence, who reportedly convinced him to stay on until at least the summer. joining us now one of the authors of that article, carol lee. so what were the reasons he wanted to leave, and what kept him? >> well, it was really at that point in december, it was over the president's announcement of abrupt withdrawal from syria followed by the resignation of defense secretary mattis who had become a close ally of coats. the folks that my colleague, courtney kube and i talked to said coats was really torn about what to do. he went to pence and had a conversation with him and said he was thinking about leaving, he thought it was time. pence made the case that, you know, he should stay on, that this would look like too much turmoil if he left following
mattis and to hang in there until the summer at least and they could revisit it and see where things are then. it turns out that this is something that pence has done over the course of the time that coats has been dni. the reason why we sort of looked at coats is because if you take him, he's really the longest serving after secretary pompeo, longest serving national security official in the trump administration who's regularly been in the president's crosshairs. a lot of it was private. that moment you just showed with andrea in aspen is when it became public and became far more problematic for coats. so we wanted to figure out how he managed to survive when we saw people like tillerson and others who wound up resigning and leaving and being pushed out. it turned out it was largely pence, a close friend of his from indiana politics. >> david. >> good reporting by carol lee and nbc. dan coats has been one of the
stand-up people in this administration. i still remember the afternoon of the helsinki summit where president trump had made such deferential comments. and dan coats issued a statement in which the president had seemed to be agreeing with putin against his intelligence chiefs. coats decided that's just wrong. he put out this statement that was a lot of talk then that the president might fire him. but i think he's somebody who has come over his time in this job to understand and appreciate the importance of our intelligence community, to be its defender at the white house. it's not surprising that he got so disturbed and oppressed he wanted to walk. but i think we're lucky he didn't. >> andrea, there's another example, the media has to follow a story. when the president of the united states believes an ex-kgb agent
instead of the fbi, the cia, the director of national intelligence, the entire intel community and he says so in helsinki. >> and also most recently on north korea where dan coats and gina haspel and the entire intelligence community stood firm in front of congress and said that kim jong-un had no intentions of ever giving up his nuclear weapons. and this is months and months after last june in singapore. this was before the second summit. and this was months after the president said, you know, the nuclear threat is over. and that's not the case. and remember, the president then saying the intelligence community had to go back to school. so there's been a lot of tensions. coats has denied that he ever planned to quit. one really hopes that he doesn't. it's also that he was a former -- not only a former senator and where he knew from congress and knew from indiana
politics of course mike pence, but also had been an ambassador to germany and knew very well the importance of nato and the por importance of our allies. coming up on "morning joe," a key lawmakers and others come together to deliver an incorporate message. it's time to secure the 2020 election. they'll present their outline on how to get it done next on "morning joe." i'm working to keep the fire going
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it was in the months prior to september 2001 when according to then cia director george tenet, the system was blinking red. here we are nearly two decades later, and i'm here to say the warning lights are blinking red again. the day the digital infrastructure that serves this country is literally under
attack. >> that was the nation's top intelligence officer last summer warning of the persistent danger this country faces from russian cyber attacks. we're back with david ignatius, kasie hunt, sam stein. joining us now, we have a member of both the house armed services and oversight and government reform committees, democratic congressman ro khanna of california. former u.s. ambassador to russia, now the director of the institute for international studies at stanford, michael mcfaul. and the former chief security officer of facebook, alex stamos. the trio is out with a new article in "the washington post" saying it's time to secure the 2020 election. they put forth five actions necessary in order to protect the vote of the american people ahead of the next election. >> so, ambassador mcfaul, i take it that you agree with the director of national
intelligence that the lights are in fact blinking red? >> they are. they have for a long time. we were attacked in 2016. we now know that and we should thank robert mueller and his team, by the way, for helping us to know more about that. the two indictments that he did provided an extreme amount of information. but unlike september 11th, we didn't have a bipartisan commission that looked into what happened and recommended what we should do in the future. i think that was a huge missed opportunity. so my colleagues and i are trying to fill in the gap as we move forward. what can we do prescriptively to make sure this doesn't happen again in 2020. >> congressman, can't republicans and democrats get together after they hear donald trump's own secretary of homeland security say that russia is trying to interfere with american democracy? >> well, i was talking to kevin mccarthy's team and i said this is something we can agree on. i mean who wants the russians to be interfering or some other
country to be interfering with our elections. there's some very simple things we can do. >> by the way, do they agree with you? >> what did he say? >> well, they said, yeah, okay, but they always go back to trump didn't have any involvement. i said here's what we know. we know that the russians wanted trump to win and we know that they hacked our e-mails and they manipulated social media. i mean tomorrow imagine if some foreign power wanted to elect someone on the far left. this is really not a partisan issue. and there's some very, very basic things we can do. let ads be disclosed on the internet. let's have coordination between our intelligence agencies and technology. >> david. >> i want to ask congressman khanna, our u.s. cyber command, our cyber authority, we've reported hacked back against the russians last october before the midterm elections, briefly shut
down some of the computers that they have used at the internet research agency to hack our elections. do you think that kind of offensive cyber action is a good way to deter future attacks against us? >> i would argue that there are other things -- i mean that's one possibility, but there are other things we can do first defensively. we can have a coordination among tech companies and better coordination with law enforcement so we know if there are russian bots on these platforms and that they can share things. alex stamos, my co-author, can go into more detail. but we can have a technology assist campaigns so no campaign is hacked. so there are some very basic things that aren't going to involve a lot of complexity, but we just haven't been doing it. >> alex, you can add on to that, but also talk about what kinds of risks we're facing right now,
how close our elections are to being infiltrated. >> so one of the things we've got to be concerned about is that the russian play bok book t there. they played us in 2016 and did their multiple strings of attack. it was effective in at least disrupting our conversation about the election. now that that playbook is out there, it's available to many, many other potential american ald ver saers. just this morning about an hour ago my colleagues at facebook announced they took down another 500 fake accounts and pages that look like they belong to the government of iran. so we can't just worry about the russians. we need to act now. what we've telegraphed to the world is that the united states democracy has these weaknesses and that we will not heavily punish those who take advantage of them. >> sam. >> well, i guess i should fully disclose at this point that my wife works for facebook. always embarrassing. isn't twitter really the big problem here? >> no. >> one of the things that has
been broached, and this is a question for you, congressman, as a way to maybe guard against the excesses of this is to have the campaign committees and the candidates themselves make commitments to not use hacked materials. listen, you may not be able to prevent hacking or the publication of it, it could happen on facebook or other sites on the internet, but if the campaigns and the committees say, listen, we're not going to knowingly use that material, maybe that helps lessen the blow of it. would you be supportive of a pact like that between the dccc and the nrcc and would you encourage anyone running for president to make such a commitment? >> i would. a lot of the presidential candidates have made that commitment that they wouldn't use hacked material. i hope the president will and all the committees will. you don't have to be embarrassed for your wife. >> i'm not. >> they have done a lot of good on black lives matter, on parkland, on democracy. all we're saying is don't have
these platforms open to foreign manipulation and have them help democracy not undermine democracy. >> i'm not embarrassed about my wife. >> she's done a lot of great work. ambassador mcfaul, let's go through some of the points. what are some of the five things we need to do. >> well, the one you're just describing is one we outline in the piece. we talk about also greater coordination between the intelligence community and the tech companies. that did not happen in 2016. we endorse the honest ads act as a way to regulate what is allowed there. putin shouldn't be able to advertise and influence our 2020 elections. then we talk about cyber security. as alex just mentioned, both for the campaigns to enhance cyber security for dam -- campaigns. i have way more restrictions on me as a stanford professor to
what i can do than what we allow presidential campaigns to do. and finally cyber security for the electoral infrastructure. we need a paper trail for every vote that is cast. i want to remind everybody that we found, the intelligence community reported, that the russians were cruising around in 21 states on election day. thankfully they didn't use that capacity. but right now we have done next to nothing to deter them or to not allow them to use that capacity in 2020. i just want to echo one thing alex said again. it's not just the russians now. everybody has seen this playbook and it's going to be a lot more complex in 2020. >> and to that point, alex, we always in politics tend to fight the last war. what's the next frontier of this? >> so i think what we should be looking for first is for americans to be manipulated and turned into patsies.
one of the big reactions boy the tech companies here have been to change the rules around the authenticity of people that advertise in the united states. i expect what the response would be, would be for the russians and others to try to support groups that are legitimately made of americans and perhaps don't know they're being used to push russian propaganda. just like mike said, we have to think about the election infrastructure itself. in 2016 the russians dipped their toe in the water here. they penetrated the systems of 21 states. something that we haven't talked too much about. and our election infrastructure is run by 10,000 different local election authorities. so the idea that an i.t. guy in miami-dade or some county in ohio can stand up against a kernel of the gru is just unacceptable. so we have to figure out a way to support and build standards for all 10,000 of those authorities so that if there's an attack against our election, while it would be hard to change the final outcome, it would not
be hard at all to throw the results into chaos and convince many, many americans the election had been stolen perhaps permanently. >> a quick question for the congressman. should our tech companies, which you represent out in california, should they be more willing to work with the u.s. government not just on election security but on new challenges like using a.i. in our national defense systems? what do you think? >> absolutely. if we want to stay ahead of china, we need silicon valley to answer the nation's call to service, to help on a.i., to help how we create jobs in places left behind and help securing the elections. we won't stay ahead of china if we don't have silicon valley's leadership and cooperation with government. >> congressman ro khanna, alex stamos and am mabassador michae mcfaul, thank you all. up next, john kennedy of
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this was especially part in the obstruction of justice part of the case. he was wrong not to say unequivocally, look, we've looked at the evidence and there is no case for obstruction. >> you could call it a cop-out, i call it unprofessional. your job is to decide. >> they're demanding to see the whole report because mueller said i can't -- i can't really clear trump on obstruction. i can't find any evidence, but i'm going to have to leave this up to the attorney -- this is not what prosecutors do. prosecutors don't acknowledge the possibility of criminal behavior if they can't find any. so the media and the democrats now have an open roadway to impeachment on the basis of obstruction. >> where did he make that up. >> where do you begin? >> seriously? get some smelling salts for all of them. all of them. they haven't seen the report. none of us have seen the report. so maybe we should just hold judgment. >> some of president trump
defenders criticizing the special counsel for leaving the obstruction door open and saying this does not not exonerate. not exonerate. should i say it again? >> it was a responsible thing to do and you get the sense actually that there was some more false and misleading information in there. i think actually robert mueller's intention was to leave it for the united states congress to decide. but i think they're going to be able to decide this ultimately because they're going to get this report, and that's why we're going to be talking to a member of the judiciary committee, republican senator john kennedy of louisiana. senator, before we get into all of that mess, i want to talk about our last segment. we had some tech people on and also a congressman on who were concerned about hacking in the 2016 election and what we're doing about the 2020 election. i think the most important point was, yes, it was russians. yes, the russians may have had their preference in 2016. but we don't know what the next attack is going to be. already iranian sites are being
taken down, the chinese obviously very aggressive in this area. what is the united states senate doing? what's the house -- what are you guys together all doing to try to protect us from russian interference, chinese interference, iranian interference in the future? >> in the last budget, joe, the senate and the house gave a substantial amount of money to our states to try to help them beef up their security from being hacked in terms of their elections. my understanding is that the states are spending that money but they haven't spent all of it yet. i would be opposed to having the federal government take over all local elections. >> oh, yeah. >> for two reasons. i don't think that's the role of the federal government. and number two, i think the fact that we have every state and in some cases localities in charge of elections makes them harder
to hack. >> yeah, i'm so glad you said that. i know in the state of florida there's 67 counties. you've got 67 supervisors of elections and, yes, they have different ways that they count ballots. but it is impossible for the russians or somebody else to infiltrate not only all of the florida supervisor of elections offices but in louisiana, across the country. isn't the fact that it is still decentralized one of the greatest safeguards against significant hacking? >> sure, in my judgment. and -- but you make -- or your previous commentator made a very salient point. you don't have to be a senior at cal tech to figure out this is going to continue. i mean the russians have been doing it for 40 years. things seemed to go a little better in the 2018 elections. but it's not just the russians. i fully expect the chinese to become involved, if they haven't already, and others. it's just the world we live in.
>> you know, senator, one of the things that they spoke about that i really did like, and i don't know if you'd be comfortable with the federal government at least putting this bare bone requirement on all the states in exchange for some money, but i love the idea of a paper trail for every vote cast. is that something that you think might be an additional safeguard, an additional requirement? let the states do it the way the states want to do it but say, hey, listen, just make sure you have a paper trail for every vote cast. >> i do. i agree with that. i think most states -- i know my state, louisiana, is moving toward that end. >> that's good. hey, let me -- let's go and turn to the mueller report. you've said like, well, everybody in congress has said and the president said last week that the mueller report should be released in full. that way you knock down all the conspiracy theories, you knock down all the suggestions that the attorney general is not playing it straight. how should that look?
talk about the timeline that you think would work the best for that. >> i think bill barr is a straight shooter. i think he wants to and will release this report at some time. now, my understanding is that he is going through and scrubbing the report to remove grand jury materials, the disclosure of which would be a violation of federal law. to some extent, joe, it's an academic issue because the report is going to leak anyway. the only question is whether it's going leak in part or in toto. but i trust the american people to figure this out. point two, i understand now why it took mr. mueller two years. it was a pretty impressive effort. 500 search warrants, 2800 subpoenas, 40 fbi agents, 500 witnesses. i think it was pretty thorough.
point three, we'll see once the full report comes out, but again, i think bill barr is a straight shooter. mr. mueller found no evidence of collusion. it's clear that the obstruction of justice issue was a closer call for him. he referred that to the attorney general and the deputy attorney general. but what's important to me is he didn't recommend an indictment. i'd like to see us move on. i would say to the president very gently, when you get what you want, leave it alone. it's okay -- it's okay to have an unexpressed thought. >> wow. >> if my mom and daddy had only taught me that, david ignatius, had only taught me that. >> and i said yesterday, and i don't mean any disrespect, but don't be a meathead about this. and i would say this to my democratic colleagues appeas we
and my republican colleagues. imagine, joe and mika, if we focused all of the effort and emotion and passion that we focused on this subject to reducing the cost of health insurance in america. >> oh, yeah. hear hear. >> imagine what we could do. but i'm worried it's going to continue on. >> senator, this is david ignatius. i just want to stick with this same question of the mueller report and what to do. some of your republican colleagues, including president trump, have talked about investigating the investigators and looking back. is that a good idea? would you be in favor of that or is it time to stop that? >> here's what i think, david. i think the fbi is the premiere law enforcement agency in all of human history. i think there were, i hope there still aren't, but i think there were some people, a small minority of people on the fbi who acted on their political
beliefs both against trump and against clinton. i hope they're gone. but if not, they need to be gone. all i want from them is get rid of them. i would like to see the president declassify all of the documents pertaining to the fbi's involvement in the 2016 election both with respect to then candidate trump and secretary clinton and let the american people make up their mind. and once we see the documentation and who did what to whom, then we can talk about more hearings. but to me, that is the short way home. if you want to, you can continue these investigations, but i think the american people see this for what it is. it's just one party trying to score points against another party. meanwhile, their moms and dads lying down in their beds at night, they can't sleep because they're worried about the cost
of health care, they're worried about their kids' education, they're worried about whether there's a level playing field in getting their kids into college and we're not dealing with any of that. and i think we're letting the american people down, but i'm probably in a minority on that. >> all right, senator john kennedy, always great to have your opinion and to have you on the show. thank you very much. >> mika, are you getting any work out of joe? >> no, no. >> just a little bit. he's working hard. you should have heard him this morning. >> i know you have to carry him, but we all have our burdens. >> it could be worse. >> her shoulders are weary. her shoulders are weary. she carries me every day. >> good lord. thank you, senator, appreciate it. >> thank you, senator. >> it's really good to keep some thoughts unexpressed. >> i'll work on that. >> that does it for us this morning. we're done. chris jansing picks up the coverage right now. >> keep some thoughts unexpressed. mika, joe, thank you. hello there, i am chris jansing in for