tv Kasie DC MSNBC March 31, 2019 4:00pm-6:00pm PDT
ld fix.ed with safelite, you can see exactly when we'll be there. saving you time for what you love most. >> kids: whoa! >> kids vo: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace ♪ welcome to "kasie d.c." i'm kasie hunt. we're live every sunday from washington. tonight, the hangover. washington reels after william barr's report but what's the best way to end a hangover, is it hair of the dog, leaning in to getting the report, or is it never doing that again, moving on to health care and focussing on other issues? later, joe biden isn't even a 2020 candidate yet but former
democratic lawmaker liucy flore accuses him of inappropriate behavior. "breitbarwilliam barr says release a redacted portion of the report by mid april. he also clarified that his summary that up ended the news cycle last sunday was not a summary of the full report but merely a summary of its principle conclusions. where does that leave democrats in congress? some like adam schiff and jerry nadler are still full steam ahead demanding that barr release the report and underlying evidence by tuesday. while house speaker nancy pelosi has demanded the report, she and other top democrats are insisting the party focus on issues like health care. after president trump seemed to
cut his victory lap short by thrusting the affordable care act in the spotlight. >> are you ready to say there was no collusion between the president and russia? >> i'm ready to talk about lowering prescriptions for health care. >> i believe that the mueller report has been done. that's a chapter that's closed. and i think that last night this administration opened a new chapter when it moved to completely invalidate the affordable care act. and that, to me is the number one thing on people's minds. >> and so the stage is set for a split screen tuesday here in washington. when, in all likelihood, we'll see jerry nadler's mueller report deadline come and go as nancy pelosi and chuck schumer
rally support for the health care. i'd like to welcome jonathan swan, marc lotter, and nadeem alshami. thank you for being here. i want to start with you, jonathan, you have so many conversations with people behind the scenes and the white house, this could have been the president's best week in office, bar none the past week but it wasn't. why did he handle the week the way he did? i think one of the misconceptions and i myself fell into this early on, but certainly it was the view on capitol hill that mick mulvaney is this conservative puppet master getting trump to do these aggressive things on health care which people like mitch mcconnell think is insane. the more reporting i did, the more i realized it was trump. trump thinks it's a good idea.
trump believes they can't ignore health care, even though they got crushed on the issue in 2018 midterms. he needs to brand himself and the party as the party of health care, even though there's no chance they'll get any legislation through congress, even though they don't have a plan, they spent eight years trying to get a plan and failed. and trump doesn't think the lawsuit is going to succeed. so even though he is endorsing the justice department's attempts to kill obamacare he doesn't see it as succeeding. >> does he see it as a political loser. >> no. they're going to hammer him on it in 2020 so he has to get in front of him. people who talk to him, who thought this was a mulvaney scheme, found out it's actually coming from him. >> what's the reaction that he
needs to get in front of it. >> let's talk about health care, the affordable care act, we have a lot of new members elected in 2018, from tough districts, districts the president won because they ran on health care and saving the obamacare. then all of a sudden the president provides this gift. this is what he believes, i'll give him credit for that. he wants to get rid of the affordable care act and he feels in his gut he can come up with health care. he has to talk to leader mcconnell because he has no desire to come up with anything on health care. >> my reporting backs up that statement. mark, what's the president's plan for health care? >> to work with congress once the courts find it to be unconstitutional -- >> what does he want to do instead? >> make it affordable, more accessible -- >> how. >> there are many options out there. >> name one. they tried once already. >> and came one vote short. so now there's another way to do
this. the courts can act on the illegality of obamacare if they hold it up, nothing gets done in congress without a deadline, this would be a deadline to bring them together -- >> if i can summarize what i think you're saying. you're saying the president himself does not have a plan yet he wants republicans in congress to come up with a plan. >> the president has outlined the broad parameters what he's looking for. >> what's he looking for? >> more affordable, accessible, lower the price, and protect preexisting conditions. >> with all due respect, all the things you said, democrats would say the same thing. everyone would say we want health care to be more affordable. >> and obamacare does none of that. it's driven up the price. >> it's driven up premium prices i'll give you that, in some cases but it has covered a lot more people. how do you propose to maintain the level of coverage if you get rid of it. >> there are certain states like
my state of indiana, under cover then pence, expanded medicaid. having people pay according to their means so the lowest are protected. >> are you saying you would keep the medicaid expansion? >> no, they're using the money to help deliver free market pli principals to cover more people. >> if you repeal aca, you won't have that money. >> you can come up with a way to cover as many people as possible. this is where the health care experts, the politicians in congress can work together to find something. >> fortunately or unfortunately for you i covered the passage of the aca, as much as you're making it sound an easy answer, it's not. >> it's not an easy answer but won't happen without a deadline. >> i'm not hearing any ideas that would accomplish those
goals. >> i'm not an expert. >> but you're representing the campaign. >> i am. he's asked a number of senators to come together, bring a plan together. >> i would say republicans have not unify around any plan. >> i think a few senators were surprised, they were thrown under the bus when the president said these senators are coming up with an incredible health care plan. so let's talk about we do as you heard having a spirited discussion on health care here. when i head out on the campaign trail that's what i hear from voters. with 2020 approaching, those democrats who are focussed on the mueller report would prefer to focus a couple things. one of the casualties were the interviews with shot with amy klobuchar and john hickenlooper. those happened before the breaking news last sunday night. i travelled to new hampshire to
talk to both of them, throughout the weekend we were focussed on mueller's findings, not everybody up there was. >> my question is about the separation of powers. >> one of the concerns i think many people have is around health care. >> i'm very concerned about the turn we have now in the supreme court and what that means for the rights of all of us. >> i would love to hear from you about what your plans for immigration would be if you become president? >> do you think we need to pass gun safety measures? what policies would you support in that regard? >> my question concerns climate -- >> those are many of the questions from voters at amy klobuchar's town hall. none of them, you will note, were about robert mueller. >> were you surprised you didn't get asked about robert mueller? >> i tried to delicately bring it up on the question of separation of powers, i thought that was a major issue.
i thought i'd answer whatever questions people have but i'm not going to start with donald trump. when i announced my candidacy he called me snow woman. so i said i will wait. when i waited i said i'd like to see how your hair fares in a blizzard. so we have to not respond to every single thing every time. and mostly it is staying on our own agenda. that's what we did successfully in the 2018 elections. >> an interesting answer i thought on this question, because while it's true, most of the voters i had conversations were were aware what was going on with mueller in washington, but their top of mind concerns and the things they wanted to ask the candidates, as you could see, were about other things. if you're the white house, what are you hoping democrats focus on in 2020? >> the white house would love
them to talk -- it's no secret the people talking most about impeachment are republicans, the white house would love democrats to rally behind impeachment, that's probably the best turnout for a base energizer. it's the fringe of the party advocating for impeachment. but leadership doesn't want anything to do with it. and to be fair to the 2020 candidates i haven't seen a lot of talk of russia. i don't think they've been out barn stastorming around the cou talking about russia. i think that's a meme in social media but it doesn't match up. >> a couple times. elizabeth warren made a reference to the president perhaps ending up in jail. i have not seen that since the barr letter came out. what's the trump perspective how you would like to see it unfold? >> we would like to talk about the economy.
you heard some of the folks mentioning it in that town hall. we're happy to have the discussion with the nominee when you have paychecks going up, more jobs than unemployed people. manufacturing coming back to the midwest. we'll have that discussion all day long. you saw the president do it thursday in michigan. >> do you think, to bring this full circle back to the house, the folks that jonathan mentioned in the house who are still talking about impeachment, how much of a problem is rashida talib and those using the i word, how big of a problem is it for nancy pelosi as she tries to govern and on the trail? >> would having the full mueller report you can't make any assessment on impeachment. the more democrats talk about the economy, talk about health care, talk about protecting the environment, talk about the issues, talk about infrastructure, the better position they're in. let the investigations, the oversight investigations continue in congress.
that's fine. let us see the mueller report. if there's evidence we move to the next step but the more they talk about kitchen table issues that they ran on and run on that different them from the president and his agenda, the better they are. >> mark, thank you for playing. we're just getting started on "kasie d.c." still ahead, mark's latest reporting on what president trump has planned for ruth bader ginsburg's seat. we'll talk to the governor of wisconsin who ran on health care. i'm joined by lucy flores who said joe biden made unwanted contact with her at a campaign event in 2014. that's next on "kasie d.c." mpain event in 2014. that's next on "kasie d.c. ely street of dreams ♪
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joe biden might be running for president, we still don't know. but this weekend lucy flores up ended discussion of his potential bid. she says during a campaign event in 2014 he touched her inappropriately on her shoulders and kissed her on the head, making her feel uneasy. the vice president saying in part quote i have offered countless hand shakes, hugs, expressions of affection, support and comfort. and not once ever did i believe
i acted inappropriately. if it is suggested i did so, i will listen respectfully. joining me now is lucy flores. thank you for coming on the program tonight. >> it's my pleasure. thanks. >> i want to start by asking you, what happened that day with the vice president? >> well, everything is going as smoothly as a political campaign rally can go. it was kind of coordinated chaos, there was a lot of people, lots of energy, i arrived on site and i was ushered into a holding room with all the speakers. it was just a few days before election day. so there was just a lot of tension, a lot of energy. but it went as normal z a it could be. everyone was chatting and being friendly. i had met vice president joe biden several times before and it was always professional, very normal. brief interactions on the campaign trail. so it was nothing different. and when we were ushered then to
the area on the side of the stage where we were then put in line in order of appearance, eva longoria was in front of me, vice president biden was behind me. i was just kind of preparing myself to address the hundreds of people in the crowd and make my final case for myself in this election and other democrats. and just -- it was just so sudden and unaware and came from nowhere. i felt these hands on my shoulders and i'm thinking, okay. that's odd and the vice president of the united states is touching me. but nothing i guess too out of the ordinary. then i felt him get closer, he leaned in and was right behind me on my body. and he leans down, smells my hair and plants this big, long kiss on the top of my head. it just happened so suddenly i didn't know how to respond. in my brain i kept thinking the vice president of the united states is smelling me, the vice
president of the united states is touching me, he's kissing me, and i just don't know what to do. i just kind of felt frozen. you know, i had been making the point that when these types of things happen, when there's such an imbalance of power, when you're in this situation, frankly you just don't know what to do. so your only choice then is to move on. i did. i was waiting for my name to be called, it finally was. i have no idea how long it took but it felt like an eternity. i go on stage, do my thing, give my remarks, smile for the cameras and shake hands and go about the day. and after the rally was done, i talked to a couple of my senior staffers and told them what happened and we just kind of expressed our shock. and then you just move on. you move on because there's no outlet. who do you complain to?
what do you say? as i said, that's a big reason why, first and foremost, i didn't say anything immediately and didn't say anything for a very long time, but then also -- >> you didn't tell anybody else about what happened, aside from the junior staffers that you mentioned? >> correct. correct. and the big reason why is because there is no structure for that. you know, that's a big problem right now just generally speaking in the political spaces. sexual harassment, assault, invasion of your personal space, you know, everything from the least severe to the most severe, there are almost no protections in place for campaign staffers, certainly not for candidates. and i think that's one of the things that's been coming up recently that needs to be addressed. in addition to, of course, inappropriate behavior by powerful men and really acknowledging that there needs to be an awareness of how that makes women feel. what is it like to be on the receiving end of that.
>> do you think that the intentions of the vice president at the time count for anything? if he, you know, did not have malicious or ill considered intentions, that's essentially what he's saying in his statement or do you think that doesn't matter? >> that doesn't matter. the intention -- for the record, i don't believe that it was a bad intention. i'm not in any way suggesting that i felt sexually assaulted or sexually harassed. i felt invaded. i felt there was a violation of my personal space. there was no relationship there whatsoever in any setting, whether it's a professional setting, a political setting. if he was the ceo of a company and he went and did that -- a person did that to another female staffer, there would be a complaint lodged. there would be a process for reporting that. and the intent doesn't matter because it's about how the person receiving it feels. that being said, there has to be
at least an awareness on his part that says i might not have intended it in that way, but i understand, because of the power difference there, because of the context, because we have absolutely no relationship that i shouldn't have kissed you in that way. i shouldn't have pressed my body up against you in that way. i should not have done that. >> just to clarify what you just said. you don't consider it to be sexual harassment but rather -- what would you call it? >> it is an invasion of my personal space. it is a -- it is a clear violation of my bodily autonomy to not be touched unless i give you permission to touch it. >> this has come up, of course, in the context of the presidential campaign. i know you were asked this morning about whether this was political or not? you said, of course, it was you wouldn't have brought it up if
joe biden wasn't running for this higher office. i want to show the viewers to expand and clarify, you cut this add for bernie sanders in 2016. >> this is a system that isn't working for the everyday person. it's one of the reasons why i decided to endorse bernie sanders. looking for people who are willing to think big, be bold, and fight for everyday people. and that's exactly what bernie sanders is doing. >> would you say that you've decided to come forward now because you still support bernie sanders and you want to see him beat joe biden in this presidential primary or is there something else going on? >> no. absolutely not. when i said that, of course, it was because it's politics, it's because the conversation around his potential candidacy and the way in which we vet candidates speaks to their entire record, their entire history. what really started to trigger me and make me think seriously
about speaking out was that every single time that joe biden's history was talked about, this very long documented portion of his -- of his record, of his history, was left out. i'm not -- i'm not saying anything new. there are videos, there are photos, there are full on compilations of him being inappropriate with women and you can see the discomfort in their faces. and it's been dismissed as if it's just biden being biden. boys will be boys. no big deal. it is a big deal. that's what i'm saying. this is the first time you have someone that's been at the -- at the -- on the receiving end of that behavior saying, no, that's not okay. and let me tell you how uncomfortable that felt and how it made you feel demeaned and all the other negative effects and terrible things that you
feel as a woman, in a space where you know there's a powerful man doing this and there's nothing you can do about it. so that conversation was not being had. and i believed that it needed to be had. and that's why i decided to speak out. of course, it's because he's potentially running for president but that's because we're having these conversations about their entire -- all of the candidates' backgrounds and i believe this is a very important aspect that's being left out and should be treated seriously. >> would you like joe biden to apologize to you? >> i would like him to at least acknowledge that his behavior has an affect on the women that he is touch because it is an inappropriate touching. you know, there is -- in no other context is this behavior okay. and all it takes is for people to google, you know, i hate to say it, but this is a term
that's out there that describes him, creepy uncle joe or creepy biden and see what comes up in the google search. it feels like endless images of him being inappropriate. ask any man or any person of power in a position if they would go up to a woman that they have no relationship with where they're in a professional setting and go up to them and touch them and smell them and kiss them. ask them if they would do that and if they think that's okay. and their answer is always, no, of course not, it's not okay. >> lucy flores thank you very much for coming on the program. it's great to have you on. >> thank you. when we return, our panel is back, including our pre-eminent reporter on joe biden, mike menially. n joe biden, mike menially i switched to liberty mutual,
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i believe lucy flores. and joe biden needs to give an answer. >> i have no reason not to believe her. >> women have to be heard and we should really, we should start by believing them. >> i have no reason not to believe lucy. i think what this speaks to is the need to fundamentally change the culture of this country and create environments where women
feel comfortable and feel safe. >> joining the conversation now nbc news national political reporter mike menily who has covered biden for many years now. >> just a few. >> we got this joe biden statement that we showed in our last block he said i offered countless hand shakes, hugs, supports of comfort, never did i believe i acted inappropriately. if it is suggested i did so, i will listen respectfully. how are those around him grappling with what lucy flores has to say? >> i think one of the challenges is he's not yet a candidate he's ham strung but not having an campaign apparatus to respond. it's a surprising moment but yet predictable. i've been covering the vice president for ten years i've probably done more diner and
dairy queen visits with the vice president than any other reporter. and now the behavior that lucy flores is saying is a negative, there's uncle joe, this is part of her point. it was contrast to the cool, aloof obama, this was the vice president showing life on the trail. how do you take behavior that was public knowledge and now respond to it as a negative. this is the real challenge for them. >> lucy flores is not wrong, there are plenty of clips out there, to a certain extent whether you view it as uncle joe in the cheerful warm way or as she said the creepy uncle joe. >> there's a struggle here as well because they candidate help but think there's political motivation here. you saw lucy flores try to walk back the idea that perhaps this was her as a surrogate for another candidate making the accusation. but two weeks ago we saw the former vice president almost
announce his candidacy. since then i've heard other campaigns we're in the opposition research of a campaign. so they're trying to take the strekts of a joe biden candidacy and turn it against him, which is the every man kind of appeal. >> we heard joe biden talk about this. let's look at that. >> i'm a tactile politician, i always have been. that's what gets me in trouble as well. but i think i can feel and taste what's going on. everywhere i went -- no kidding, everywhere i went, there was an insatiable desire by republicans and democrats for women and men of high character in public office. look at the polling data. look at the pol seems there, mi be acknowledging that this is something that could potentially get him in trouble but at the same time trying to underscore what he sees he brings to the
table. >> what's interesting is there are a number of biden and on bama staffers that want the best for them, but what you hear is perhaps the best day of his campaign is the first day. >> one thing hovering over this is the me too movement and how our culture has changed and been affected over the course of the past year. while lucy flores supported another candidate in 2016 she's coming forward with this allegation. there are plenty of clips of joe biden interacting with women, very tactile, as he says it, way. is the democratic party at a point where that's what they want in a candidate? is that what this conversation is about? >> let me take a step back here. the way i view this whole issue is this. i have two daughters. my wife and i tell them, look, if there's anything that makes you feel uncomfortable for whatever reason it is, speak
out. and floreflores, she spoke out. she felt uncomfortable, she spoke out. i'm not going to question her motivation whether it's political or not political. it gets us to that point, where's the line for campaigning. if you are a senator or a member of congress or a governor running, and you shake hands, you give hugs, are people going to question that? yes, senator biden, when he was senator and when he was vice president, i've seen him give plenty of hugs from staffers -- >> i remember it, interviewing him on the hill. it happened to me at least once. i would not have said that i had a personally inappropriate experience to joe biden to be clear. >> if you're uncomfortable, speak out. we've had teachable moments over the last couple years. and it seems each teachable moment is severity depending on what it is. from the president in 2018 all the way to where we are now.
we have to take a step back and say, women have a right to say, you know, when they're uncomfortable, when they feel threatened, but also when you hear from vice president biden and see what he has to say as well. >> mike, last word to you. how does the biden campaign think about this in the context if they run against donald trump where he's had so many issues on the sexual harassment and assault front. >> i would say these are different things they would say. prior was his acknowledgement of anita hill as a liability for him. he did that at an event at an organization he himself started on sexual assault. so he has a long track record to lean back on on a policy front, to combat donald trump who has real issues facing him. >> mike, thank you. and nadeam thank you as well.
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[ singing in spanish ] please, play for us. is the president going to hold republicans who vote against health care accountable? are they going to pay a price? >> i think they'll probably pay a price at home. >> that prediction from sean spicer came two years ago, just last week, consider the case of if i had to pick a random spot on the map, michigan, where the president visited this week. >> the republican party will become the party of great health care. republicans want you to have an affordable plan that's just right for you. we have a chance of killing obamacare. we almost did it but somebody unfortunately surprised us with thumbs down but we'll do it a different way. i'm speaking now for the
republican party. we will always protect patients with preexisting conditions. always, always. >> the president won the state in 2016 by fewer than 10,000 votes in the 2018 midterms the state lost two republican house seats in districts trump won by close mar shins. elissa slotkin and hailey stevens won. it was clear that trot was going to face a difficult reelection, nearly 20 months earlier, hundreds attended trots' town hall as many more waited outside. >> let's talk about medicaid. under the aca medicaid got expanded significantly and hundreds of thousands have benefitted from it in michigan and millions across the country. what some of you that don't support the american health care act don't want to hear is under
the aca -- under the aca, the funding for medicaid was going to change anyway in a few years. so, so the goal is for our solution through lower premiums, lower health care costs, tax subsidies, health savings account to make insurance more affordable so people on the exchanges can afford it. again, for all of you that are booing unless you agree with the underlying premises that the affordable care act is collapsing you're not going to agree with another word i say. next question. >> trot opted to retire saying trump was a factor, citing charlottesville and his position on health care. and it's not as if there was no warning. at the time rick snyder warned his state's members of congress and spelled it out for them in personal terms. reminding them they had nearly
75,000 people in their districts who either used the state's healthy michigan program or bought insurance from the obamacare exchanges. with all of that, i'm joined by wiscons wisconsin governor tony evers. thanks for being on the program. >> thank you, kasie, good to be here. >> what was the reason why you won your election so narrowly against scott walker, someone who many thought was unbeatable quite frankly at various points in his political career and how much did health care have to do with it? >> it was a huge issue. health care was one of the primary issues in this campaign. people of wisconsin who were saying we want to make sure that those of us, those 2.4 million of us, including me i'm a cancer survivor, had the protections for preexisting conditions. that's one of the reasons i won the race. they also say they wanted to
make sure that wisconsin took the medicaid expansion they hadn't done for eight years of scott walker and cost the state of wisconsin $1.1 billion. so there's no question health care was a huge issue in this case. >> i'm glad you mentioned preexisting conditions because that was one thing that stuck out to me when i was up there covering the race. listen to what scott walker told me when i asked about this. >> the president is it closing out the midterm campaign with an add that featured a mexican who he said killed americans, do you think the tone at the close of this race is going to help you win your election, and do you approve of it. >> our focus in wisconsin is our message to the voters, we've come a long way together, we turned the state around, we put more dollars in the schools than ever before, we tackled the problems with health care, did it while still protecting people with preexisting conditions.
>> i would note i didn't ask him about preexisting conditions, he brought it up by himself. how much do you think this issue of health care should play a role when the 2020 contenders come to your state of wisconsin and campaign there? >> absolutely it's going to be a huge issue. what president trump is essentially saying to the people of wisconsin, you 2.4 million who have a preexisting condition, you might not have them any more. he's also saying to 400,000 people in the state, if i had my way -- donald trump is saying this -- you're not going to have your insurance anymore. i mean, i can't imagine that's a winning combination. by getting rid of the affordable care act, everybody's health insurance premiums are going to go up, other states have found that to be the case. i think it's an absolute loser and i can't believe the
republicans will actually support the president on these issues. >> so in speaking of 2020, there's obviously been a lot of looking back on the 2016 campaign among democrats and hand wringing about what happened in your home state of wisconsin, what did you learn during your race that you think should inform what the candidates do. amy klobuchar made a point of going to wisconsin early, is it possible for the democrats to win the state back in 2020, and if so, how? >> absolutely, we have a good chance. as you can see by the fact that the democratic convention is coming to milwaukee. people across the country believe we have a good chance. i can only speak for myself and my observations here in wisconsin. i think we have to have a candidate that's pragmatic. certainly progressive values are important but at the end of the day, people of wisconsin told me that, you know, health care is important, transportation issues
are important, education is important, but most of all, they want somebody that can solve problems. and so i think pragmatism is a value that the people of wisconsin support. >> and would you say that there are any candidates so far in this race who embody that? >> i won't go there. i believe that the good thing about the democratic party it's a big tent. i understand there's going to be people on the far left, in the center, whatever, but at the end of the day we can't be so entrenched in any position that we're telling people it's my way or the highway. we have to make sure we're able to be in a position to actually accomplish some things. i think this is a great example in the issue of health care. the democrats own this issue, and we should. the obamacare has been working, it's working for the people of wisconsin, and the last thing that we want to do is throw 400,000 people out of health
care, health care insurance, and take away their protections for preexisting conditions. >> governor tony evers thank you so much sir. >> thank you. when we return jonathan swan is back with what president trump has in mind for ruth bader ginsburg's supreme court seat. ginsburg's supreme court seat. you see the crowd, you see the emotion. you know, he has that experience for the first time with me, and that's really important to me. i created a rockstar. (both laughing) (announcer) the best network is even better when you share it. buy the latest iphone for you, and get iphone 10r on us for someone else. and get apple music on us, too. only on verizon.
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publicly urged you to retire to or three years ago so that obama could name a replacement? any second thoughts about not doing that? >> i said many times that i will do this job as long as i can do it full steam and when i can't that will be the time i will step down. >> that was supreme court justice ruth bader ginsburg reflecting on how much longer she's going to stay on the bench. according to the scoop tonight from jonathan swan from axios, it's also a subject on president trump's radar, surprise,
surprise. and june, july, he said, this was a direct quote, i'm saving her for ginsberg when the topic of amy coney barrett -- >> remind our viewers who amy is? >> she's 46 years old and she is a circuit court judge on the 7th circuit, and a darling of the social conservative right, and she would be probably one of the most inexperienced in terms of her time on the bench, but she is somebody who would be on the bench potentially for 40, who knows, 50 years. >> she's somebody -- susan collins and murkowski are pro-choice members in the senate, and they were concerned about her, and people were saying to pick a woman but behind the scenes, not her. >> the women wouldn't vote for her and the women were
shorthanded for collins and murkowski. and even though the map was looking in the midterms pretty bad in the house they thought there was a decent chance so they could pick up seats in the senate so they wouldn't need collins and murkowski. >> which could be the case. does the president think this is likely something he will be able to do? >> trump told people in the first term he would be confirming four or five. he thinks a lot of these will open up, and he said sotomayor, and it's what he said privately. trump believed he would have this appointment but i don't know how to what extent that is shared in the white house. >> of course. thank you so much. in the next hour, house
democrats on a collision course with the attorney general. i am joined live by george papadopoulos, out of jail and selling a book. and of course, the kasie dvr, our producers watch the sunday shows so you don't have to. showo it's understanding why that... will get him a body like that... move! ...that. your job isn't doing hard work... here. ...it's making her do hard work... ...and getting paid for it. (vo) snap and sort your expenses to save over $4,600 at tax time. (danny) jody... ...it's time to get yours! (vo) quickbooks. backing you. you wouldn't accept from any one else. why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase relieves your worst symptoms including nasal congestion, which most pills don't. flonase helps block 6 key inflammatory substances. most pills only block one. flonase.
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act back fire, arguing the entire affordable care act or obamacare is unconstitutional. >> we have been working on a plan for a long time. >> you have talked about having a plan to protect pre-existing conditions for ten years. >> pre-existing conditions will be covered. >> obamacare does not work, even the democrats admit that right now. >> the democratic presidential candidates are talking about medicare for all. >> medicare for all will ruin our health care system. >> there are ways to improve. the affordable care act was not brought down the mountainside my moses on white tablets. >> the decision is in, no conspiracy, no collusion, no collaboration and no coordination, no obstruction, and no way he sat down with the russians -- he doesn't include
with his own government. >> nobody has seen what the mueller says because we have not seen it. >> adam schiff is standing by his claim. >> adam schiff is completely compromised. >> people should reserve judgment on what adam schiff knows or doesn't know. >> let's release the entire report. >> mr. barr is going to decide what he releases. >> we have a new species of dinosaur species, it's called the barr redactal. national political reporter also for the esteemed associated press, and co-founder, found restrategies rick tyler. a new msnbc news wall street poll out tonight show 70% of the americans believe the president was not cleared of wrong doing
or unsure as the mueller report concludes for now. just 29% say they believe he has been cleared. so house democrats are on a collision course with attorney general bill barr as it appears unlikely he will comply with the demands to see robert mueller's full report, and barr says lawmakers can expect to see a redacted report by mid april, and jerry nadler is standing by his demand to see it all by tuesday. the staff said barr all but refused to give nadler an unredacted copy of the report. the next step will be a subpoena with one adding, quote, we will have more to say on april 3rd. so jonathan, it seems as though democrats not giving up this
particular bone, especially not after receiving that brief letter from barr, but how does this play out for them, and how does this play out for the white house in the next week? >> the white house is making it clear how they want to proceed. barr released four pages and that's his judgment, and the president said he is not opposed to him releasing more of the report. i was with the president in florida and i was there thursday night with his rally, and he opened up with a ten or 15-minute screed about the mueller report, and we are only seeing the summary, and we don't know everything inside of it and he is taking it as saying, you had your chance, you came at me, i did the interfere, you missed and now he is saying, if the house democrats are going to keep pushing for this on the report, and he is linking it to
other investigations as well, and he is saying this is no longer about justice or an unbiassed investigation, we had one of those, and robert mueller led it, and this is pure bipartisan overreach. >> and julia, what is the justice department strategy here? how dug in is bill barr in saying that i want to distinguish between the public at large and congress, because congress is arguing behind the scenes saying there are cases where we have seen grand jury material before and you need to give it to us. can bill wabarr do that? >> this is not a justice department blind to calls from congress or calls from the public about what they want to see in that, and the attorney general and his third letter out on this, which is a little more transparency than we thought
might have in the process, three, we expected, third is grand jury, and the fourth is what he is talking about after he releases it, anything that could ruin the representation as peripheral third parties, so who is that? will that lead to more redactions? i think the justice department is set up to go ahead and respond to the criticisms, and both sides you can see are very strategically playing how we are going to get this. >> tyler, one point pete wi williams made to me, members of congress is using the watergate hearings and they received grand jury material for that, and pete told me wisely, of course, because he's pete williams, because nixon consented with
that going to the congress, and the president has gone back and forth in recent days whether he would be okay -- >> it shouldn't surprise anybody the president speaking out of both sides of his mouth on this, and his own attorney general is not releasing anything. with a high degree of confidence we can be yassured when mueller wrote the report he would have written a summary that would have been nonclassified and releasable and been careful to delineate what was classified information, things obtained by a grand jury and national security secrets, and what do we call it, the -- >> yeah. >> those three you can't talk about. the idea that they are slow boating this is a sham. >> i will say one thing, though, is because this is a special counsel and not an independent counsel like we would have seen with kenneth starr, the justice
department does have more power. we were never going to get something from robert mueller to the public. the attorney general was always baked into the process. >> they took that away because they felt as though ken starr went too far. >> the american people have spent millions on this investigation and they deserve to have more than 2 1/2 letters of bob barr's -- did i say bob barr? >> i made that mistake before. we are sorry, bob. >> bill barr's interpretation, people need to see it. there's a set of conclusions that they can be released and there's a danger of democratic overreach, but, look, this is a democratic maker's dream this report if it comes out. >> how is this playing out on the trail? >> it's not. you played tape last hour of the kinds of questions democrats are
getting, and they are about infrastructure and health care and how they are going to get broadband access, and this report almost never comes up until i ask a candidate about it, and that's where i think there's a little dissidents about the report and washington. there's still so much that we don't know. the fact of the matter is most voters aren't asking the candidates those questions and most candidates are not coming out themselves and talking about this report on the trail, they are talking about those bread and butter issues. >> can i piggy back on that. that stands in contrast to what the white house wants to do. right now the plan for this white house and their allies is to go hard on this and to say, look, he has been exonerated and they will turn it into a weapon to go after not just the democratic party but members of the media that they feel have been unfair and fueled the
flames of the investigation. >> to say it was a personal vendetta. for more a all of this i want to turn to democratic congressman, mike quigley of illinois. good to have you back on the program. >> good to be here. >> i want to ask you about a man on your committee, adam schiff, who seemed to get emotional after republicans swept up against him and started to argue that he should resign as chairman of the intelligence committee. what is your response to those republicans? >> first of all, i have served in congress ten years now, almost exactly, and i'm not saying this because of what happened this week, about the i think he has this representation, and adam schiff is one of the smartest and hardest working and dedicated congressmen i never met, and the fact that chairman nunes led this show the other day is sad
because chairman nunes with his infamous trip to the white house at midnight and his memo that was called reckless and dangerous by the intel community and the justice department, the best way to describe his actions were to tank the investigation and to shut it down prematurely. when the russians attacked our democratic process, chairman nunes sprung into action and attacked the intelligence community and the justice department. i think there will be a lasting impact of the work he did. to question adam schiff was extraordinary. >> sir, do you agree with adam schiff that -- do you feel as though you have seen evidence of president trump or the trump campaign colluding with russians? >> let's just look at the public record. let's look at what is in the court filings that mr. mueller gave to the american public, right? mr. manafort meeting with a
russian giving him trump polling data, and the fact that stone knew mr. podesta was next in the barrel and the fact that the president's son met with the russians and asked for dirt on hillary clinton, and the fact that the president knew this, and steve bannon saying the question of whether his father knew about this, that there was absolutely no question that his father would have known before and after this took place. >> have you seen evidence that he did? >> that he did what? >> that the president was aware of that, of that meeting? >> i think it defies anybody's imagination that the president was not aware of what his son was doing and what happened afterwards. >> i understand that. you are a member of the house intel committee, so do you guys have evidence? >> i will leave at what i can say about it in the public record, and the fact is there's a public record of obstruction
and a public record of collusion. the fact that mr. mueller could not exonerate the president on obstruction leaves mr. barr to do exactly what he was hired to do, shut the investigation down and make sure that nobody sees the light of day of the mueller report and the underlying information. if he is exonerated, let's just show us. >> do you think there's any world in which the intelligence committee would get a copy of the unredacted report and the underlying information if it's not released to the public? nancy pelosi said it classified briefing of any kind will not suffice, they want everything to be public. would you be willing to accept receiving that information in a classified way? >> look, we should get the memo in its entirety whether it's classified or not, we get exextraordinary sensitive information that is classified
and that's our job. but for mr. barr to take away the two years of work that the special counsel did and use the theory he already put together in applying for the job, saying that the theory was wrong, that mr. mueller was working on, that makes it all the more essential that the american public get all the information. they had no calms about releasing information about third parties, for example, when it involved hillary clinton. >> congressman of illinois, thank you for coming on the program. good to have you. >> thank you. this one of the this has intrigued me, and democrats have tried to draw the hard line in the stand saying the public needs to see the whole report and all the information and i wonder if at some point that gives, if, for example, the attorney general will brief the
gang of eight. is that something you think he would do? >> i don't think so because of this reason, if he is going to give congress information that stays right there i don't see he sees their need if it only stays within the gang of eight, but he already was in a position where he didn't have to give anything, so everything he gives is what he thinks is in the public interests, and that's why he is giving any of the information away. there are people who are working on this at the justice department and they are coming through and what they are trying to do is find evidence that will back up the conclusions, that there was no coordination or obstruction, and what i understand much of the obstruction evidence is already in the public and they want to say within that sphere so we understand why the attorney general is doing that.
>> they are also known for keeping their mouth shut, too. i shouldn't poke fun. this is a very important conversation, and i will interrupt our broadcast to bring everybody some very, very important breaking news this evening. watch. >> first one, no. up ahead, and nowhere near him, and he's going to come out with it, and michigan state is headed to minneapolis! >> michigan state wins, which is great by itself, and it's even better because they beat duke. >> it's amazing! >> the breast of my bracket is completely busted but i had michigan state beat duke here, and tarhill fans, and duke --
>> my brackets were busted when michigan lost but my family is split, michigan and michigan state so i can get behind this victory. i will have they once made me read things on the teleprompter that said nice things about duke and i made them take it out. and george papadopoulos found himself at the international conspiracy investigation. plus, a dramatic week of changes at the border that could make the humanitarian crisis even more dire. we're back after this. ore dire we're back after this. you. we're working together to do just that. bringing you more great tasting beverages with less sugar or no sugar at all. smaller portion sizes, clear calorie labels and reminders to think balance. because we know mom wants what's best. more beverage choices, smaller portions, less sugar.
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amid a growing migrant crisis president trump is cutting nearly $500 million in funding to el salvador, guatemala and honduras claiming tpher not doing enough to deter migrants from coming to the border. striking images showed migrants as a result of overcrowding at regular processing facilities, at the same time we have an autopsy report for the 7-year-old that died in december while in the custody of customs and border protection, and she died from rapidly progressing infection, as president trump falsely claims her father took
responsibility for her death. >> children died in december in u.s. custody, migrant children. do you believe giving the rising numbers of the families and children your administration is ready. >> we have done a fantastic child. the father admitted -- >> again, not what actually happened. rick tyler, the president is also asserting cutting the foreign aid is something that will help the situation, but evidence has shown when we increase aid to the countries it reduces the flow because it makes life better for people in the other countries. >> what is going at the border is complicated. we have not had comprehensive immigration reform and that's at the fault of both tparties goin
on, and cutting off foreign aid is not going to help. can those three do more to prevent gang violence? yes, and they should. but that's why the families are leaving. you also have this problem which is frankly new, families are coming up as a family unit and not just mostly laborers that might come in illegally or come and work, but now they are coming to claim legitimate asylum because their families are being killed by gangs. trump says we will shut down the border and cut off -- none of his policies are working and they have to work with congress because it can't be politicized any longer because people will die. it has to change. >> when you look at immigration and you have push factors and pull factors, and one of the push factors is violence and
when you cut off aid that makes the pull factor worse, and they said they were going to propose legislation that would cut off a pull factor by deportable children more quickly, and these are children that come without a legal guardian and go into the care of health and human services and they pair them with a relative in the united states, and they have that right if they are a child and they are from anywhere but canada or mexico, and it's to give the child protections. she wants to be able to deport these children. we have pushed dhs on how that would look, where would you cut them off in the system and they don't have the answers to that yet. it shows the strategy is focused
on making it as hard as they can and get rights given to them by international law while not addressing the push factors. when john kelly first came in as dhs secretary everybody had faith maybe he would understand that, and he said they wanted to address that and we have seen a complete dropping of the push factors and a complete focus on the pull. >> the other policy, and it was eluded to, that the president is going to close the border entirely. >> we have right now two big caravans coming up from guatemala, massive caravans, walking right through mexico, so mexico can stop them but they chose not to, and now they are going to stop them and if they don't stop them we're closing the border. we will keep it closed for a long time. i'm not playing games. >> what would actually happen if
the president closed the border and can he? >> there are steps he can take. there are ports of entry he can close. it would not be able to happen in the amount of time he wants to. he said he could move on that in the last week, and people around him that we talked to said that's impossible. >> interstate commerce. >> and trade goes both ways. it seems something he is intent on doing, and even though he cried wolf on this before, and he now seems more serious -- more apt to doing it eventually. >> obviously this is a human issue, and if you are the president and thinking about this in terms of we know he used immigration as a way to fire up his base, but why risk your success on the economy to -- why pick the immigration issue over the economic if you are him.
>> his advisers are conflicted because it could affect the economy, and he is coming off a pretty significant win off of the barr and mueller report, and he's kicking up a lot here where it would drown out the victory he has. the immigration is the backbone of what he has been day one, and it's a frustration for him the wall has not been completed, although he is going to the border later this week in california to talk about more. but this is another way where he, i think, is trying to double down, again, appealing to the base, those who really bought into him because of his immigration tactics and he is going to a stronger move which could have a blowback. >> we are hearing from voters on the trail, and unlike perhaps the mueller report in terms of awareness, i did hear particularly from suburban women about child separations and some of what they see as inhumane
policies at the border. you have heard that as well? >> i have. i think this is exactly the conversation that democrats want to be having because they can draw a clear distinction if they were in office and what this president is doing. beto o'rourke had a rally in el paso and talks about this miles away from where a lot of those children are being kept under that bridge, and for having unity and compassion for these people trying to come into this country and treating them well and tphhere's a clear attempt t draw a distinction, and they do not believe this white house has heart. >> thank you so much for your reporting and insights. we appreciate it. when we come back, george papadopoulos. poulos (danny) let me get this straight.
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incredibly hurt by this whole scam, it's just a scam. it's a very sad thing. i don't want to talk about pardons now, but i can say it's so sad on so many levels. >> both national security adviser, michael flynn and campaign adviser, george papadopoulos pleaded guilty to lying to the fbi during the mueller probe. papadopoulos was the first trump aide to plead guilty and be sentenced and that was conversations about russia having dirt on hillary clinton that sparked the fbi's investigation into collusion between russia and the trump campaign. he spent 11 nights in prison and now his lawyers are formerly requesting a pardon from president trump. joining me now from los angeles is george papadopoulos, and he's the author of a new book, and thank you for being here.
thanks for being here. >> thank you for having me, kasie. >> i want to start with the initial conversation, where you were informed by a lawyer there was possibly dirt on hillary clinton. were you aware you were engaging in illegal activity or helping a foreign government interfere in the election? >> that's a great question. this man was falsely characterized by mueller as a russian, and he was an operative who was operating under the guidance of the fbi when he was interacting with me, and that's why i had to write my book to explain to the world what happened in my story and why my lawyers believe a pardon might be necessary. >> why not go to the fbi if you are on the receiving end of that
information? >> i did go to the fbi, when they interviewed -- >> they came to you. you didn't go to them. >> in retrospect it's probably the best thing i did was not telling, and he was not a russian and he was sent to entrap me and by doing that trying to hurt the rest of the campaign. >> you would have avoided the entire thing if you would have gone straight to the fbi assuming this is how this unfolded. if you have this encounter with a person such as that you take it to the authorities and then there's no case against you, so why not do it? >> like i said, i did tell the fbi i volunteered this guy to them and then i got indicted for talking about when i met him. when the fbi and mueller were after me for really were my ties to israel, and they were going
to charge me for working with the israeli government, and this information is new and shocking to most of your viewers, but i thought it was my duty to write the book and set the record straight. >> why didn't you talk to anybody in the trump campaign about the conversation with this dirt on hillary? >> why would i talk to the campaign about somebody that i didn't find the person credible at all. the fbi agent told me to go and meet him in rome before i go back to the united states so i meet this person in rome at a spy school that trains fbi assets, and then three weeks after he falsely introduces me to a young lady he decides to drop this bizarre information in my lap that was already being
speculated all around the world, and he couldn't introduce me to anybody in the russian government, and he never introduced me to anybody, and then he drops the information in my lap and i did nothing with it, and there was a report i told the australian diplomat this information and that story was debunked, and congressman mark meadows a couple weeks ago were talking about ambassadors were conspiring with the fbi during the election, and he was revealed to be an asset sent to spy on me. the entire saga, my story, it was completely -- i don't want to say fake news because i don't like that term, but there was so much misinformation and misunderstanding about my involvement with the trump campaign and my involvement and the russians that i was forced to write this book to clarify
things. >> that's not my understanding of the australian ambassadors role in all of this, but setting that aside and focus on your sentencing last year, your lawyers heard, the president trump of the united states hindered this investigation more than george papadopoulos ever could. do you agree with what your lawyers said? >> my lawyers had their own opinion and there's a reason i fired them and i don't agree with that opinion at all. >> how would you describe your role in the trump campaign? >> i was a foreign policy adviser. i had joined the trump campaign officer i was a foreign adviser on the ben carson campaign, and basically i had responsibilities that entailed helping write president trump's foreign policy speeches, and i introduced hip to the egyptian president, and
advised him on strategic issues around the world. >> was it a major or minor role. >> everything is all relative. if introducing president trump to the egyptian president and it's a minor role, then that's all i can say. >> you were at the putin meeting, and we are showing our viewers a photo there, and that's you, and jeff sessions sitting at the table. jeff sessions has pushed back or said that he pushed back on you when you made this suggestion. was jeff sessions telling the truth? >> look, all i can say about this is that my recollection differs from his and there's a reason i continued to press on this meeting with trump and putin, and people like cory
lewandowski, so if i felt jeff sessions was pushing back against me the last thing i would be doing after that meeting you just referenced was continuing to arrange that meeting. >> more on "kasie d.c." in just a moment. most pills only block one. flonase. look limu. a civilian buying a new car.ug let's go. limu's right. liberty mutual can save you money by customizing your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh... yeah, i've been a customer for years. huh... only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪
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rapper nipsy hustle was shot and killed in los angeles outside his own clothing store. he was rushed to the hospital where he was pronounced dead. two other people were involved in the attack and are in serious condition. the suspect or suspects remain at large. he and the actor lauren london are the parents of a 1-year-old child. his debut album was grammy nominated. he was just 33 years old. we will talk more politics up next.
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you today in my hometown, in my home state, to announce that i am running to serve you as the next president of the united states of america. >> beto o'rourke in his hometown of el paso, texas, yesterday, formerly kicking off his presidential campaign, and notable on this cycle is the number of women running and how male candidates are becoming more cognizant of gender on the
campaign trail. >> my name is elizabeth and i am running for the senate because that's what girls do. won't that be fun for president? >> they are running and in force. >> i stand here today. >> to announce my candidacy -- >> for president of the united states. >> female hopefuls building on the momentum of the pink wave, and -- >> i am excited about the women. >> for the men in the field their gender is suddenly a question in need of an explanation. >> why would somebody vote for you over a woman candidate? >> as a white man i clearly had advantages over the course of my life. >> what is your experience of becoming aware of your own privilege? >> this nuance mass cue lculine
>> my wife is raising, sometimes with my help -- not only will i not say that again, but i will be much more thoughtful going forward. >> it's not just about maleness, but it's about the best man winning. >> if you got the nomination would you choose to commit a woman for your vice president. >> i would not box myself in. >> would you commit to having a woman as your vice president? >> i would consider the importance of diversity in all aspects. >> how come we are not asking a woman would you be willing to put a man on the ticket? >> the more things change, the more they stay the same. >> suddenly twitter blows up
because kamala harris tries to a jacket -- >> even as candidates lean into gender as a rallying cry, but the men democrats let the best woman win. >> i cherish women. i do. >> the great maxine waters, that's a beauty. >> consistent in his affinity for being a man's man. >> and their nine children. you are very busy. wow. i always knew i liked him. >> with the males i set records, but i'd like to switch it. >> this was locker room talk. >> any guy that you do a body slam, he's my guy. >> an election of stark contrasts and not just on the poli policy. >> and allie joins me here onset. you had me making faces. >> this is such an interesting
kind of way of -- that things have changed. you know, i thought what you said about the fact that how candidates are approaching masculinity differently is really interesting because over the course of history we have all told female candidates they have to be more masculine if they want to win. >> that's exactly right. the women are doing something for interesting in that people like kirsten gillibrand are leaning into themselves as mom or cam pa harris are leaning into the first senators or attorneys general of their states. so there is that. but i'm interested in seeing how this plays out among voters. democratic voters say they are excited to vote for women and diverse candidates. but beto, bernie are the ones leading right now. secondly, once you get to a general election, how does this play out with someone like trump who consistently voters for the past several years have said to me, yeah, i still like him but i wish he would do less by the way of offensive tweeting or thins
he was saying. >> it's really interesting that you bring up voters. i spoke with amy klobuchar a little bit about this topic. take a look at how she answered the question about what it's like to be a woman running. >> i do think it is interesting we have a number of women candidates that have what could be described as tough jobs, right? i just come to mind are people that i work with every day. that's myself, yes, i was the former prosecutor, ran the office of over 400 people. camera harris was the attorney general of california, elizabeth warren ran the consumer financial protection bureau. sometimes when you are in those positions tough make tough decisions and people don't always agree with everything that you do. and so i think that over time when voters and citizens look at this, they're going to look at what is the overall record of this person. maybe it's good that they had to take some daggers and have a
tough job and make some tough decisions. traditionally we have respected that in american politics. and i don't think we should treat men different from women simply because they both have had responsible jobs. >> are you suggesting that perhaps, say, betoe o'rourke hasn't had as tough a job as you have. >> that will be for the voters to decide. >> it is interesting. beto took a lot of criticism when he said he was born to be in this setting. >> yeah. it's really difficult when i heard those comments. i find it difficult to imagine what the reaction would have been if a woman had said, you know, i was born to be the president of the united states. what's been really interesting about this selection cycle so far is the fact that voters are seeing so many different versions of what female leadership looks line and what leadership looks like in these more than a dozen candidates that are running. in 2016 we have the case of shes
running. now she's running and she's running and she's running. what that elicits and what i hear from women voters in particular is they are excited they have these choices and they get to kick the tires and see women who are embracing that and talking about it in so many different ways. to someone like an amy klobuchar or kamala harris who are running on that record of strength and the careers they have built and those establishments. >> quickly, and there is whispers that they need, the democrats need a white man to beat donald trump. do you buy that? >> no, no. and i'm looking forward to all the different leadership styles that women have. i work for women. there is a lot of disadvantages and frankly a lot of advantages to being a woman that many women carry a lot of the skill sets required to legislate, to actually get compromise and actually get things done. so let's move forward with it. >> fair enough. when we return, what to watch
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pg&e wants you to plan ahead by mapping out escape routes and preparing a go kit, in case you need to get out quickly. for more information on how to be prepared and keep your family safe, visit pge.com/safety. mr. president, i rise today to consider the green new deal. this is of course a picture of former president donald reagan, naturally firing a machine gun while riding on the back of a dinosaur. this is a beloved species of mammals native to the ice planet of hauf.
this is the real solution to climate change. >> so that was a veen joke. it premiers tonight. i'm looking forward to it. but i have to say first because this came up earlier in the week as we talked about mike lee and that tonton. he was saying he doesn't take it seriously. i said i always take star wars seriously. and mark hammel wrote back and said that he takes our show seriously. so, sir, mr. hammel, please, we would love to have you join us here on kcdc at your convenience. before we go, let's talk about what you are watching in the week ahead. >> hours away from the first fund-raising deadline, a lot of crowds on the campaign. i'm interesting to see what the dollar signs show us. >> i'm looking forward to donald trump coming back to rescuing obamacare. >> unfortunately, we will have to give this up because that does it tonight for us.
we will be right back with you next week from 7:00 to 9:00 p.m. eastern. coming up next, the aoc effect. freshman representative alexandria ocasio-cortez. for now good night from washington. are you all ready to make a ruckus? >> this is a size mick uprising and took the capital by storm. >> he's not in the capital. he's not in the floor of the senate and 800,000 people don't have their paychecks so, where's mitch? >> they're confused. they're bewildered by her. >> alexandria ocasio-cortez has riled critics on both sides of the aisle. >> sometimes we call