tv MSNBC Live MSNBC April 13, 2019 3:00am-4:00am PDT
it's hard. >> that's all for now. i'm craig melvin. thanks for watching. good morning. i'm philip mena at msnbc world headquarters in new york. it's 6:00 in the east, 3:00 out west. hears what's happening. doubling down. president trump threat jeopardies to bus migrants to sanctuary cities from "coast to coast" as a federal appeals court makes another big ruling on asylum seekers. where will they say? under fire. one word from bill barr raising the stakes ahead of his release of the mueller report. plus out of the embassy and locked up. what's next for julian assange and could a look at wikileaks and the 2016 election make things uncomfortable for president trump? developing this hour, growing political and legal
backlash as the president gives new life the to a controversial immigration proposal that administration officials had rejected as unworkable and illegal. the president still says he's strongly considering a plan to sake central american immigrants apprehended at the border and bus them to so-called sanctuary cities. president trump making it clear this is in retaliation to democrats. >> we'll bring the illegal, i call them illegals. they came across the border illegally. we'll bring them to sanctuary city areas and let that particular area take care of them. they want more people in their sanctuary cities we'll give them a lot. an unlimited supply. they say they have open arms. let's see if they have open arms. >> democrats condemning the proposal as inhumane and counter
seekers back to mexico pending to appeals. we go to the white house and hans nichols. you're learning new details how the military may get involved? >> reporter: what the administration is considering is have the military build housing along the border. the president has been hinting at this. what's different about this plan you would have some of this ten housing to house these migrants not on military bases which had been the previous old plan but separate from that. now all of this is in the context of the president opening a new front in his immigration wars. he's not looking to open up the border. he's going inland. going to sanctuary cities and putting pressure on his political opponents. you hinted at the top but remember this is initially broken thursday night by "washington post". white house officials were quick to confirm the story this was being considered but firmly rejected in part because it
wasn't legal. one official said it was so illegal and yet the president takes to twitter on friday says that he's for this, considering it. then he owns it on camera as you just heard. said it several different ways. he made it clear he wants to have his wall. >> the wall is going up. it's going up fairly rapidly. we're doing another big section. we start another big section tomorrow. we're building miles and miles of wall. we'll have, i think we'll be close to 400 miles built by the end of next year. we need that. >> do you need more troops on the border? >> he'll put more troops on the border. >> reporter: more troops on the border we'll have to see how many are there. will they be building detention facilities or help process migrants. there are rules, laws that prevent u.s. troops from doing law enforcement activity on u.s. soil. all this is going to land in the middle of the presidential campaign.
you already heard several of the candidates criticizing this proposal. one thing white house officials haven't explained let alone the shift from the president. they haven't explained whether this new potential policy is actually legal. >> a lot of
unanswered questions. hans nichols reporting from the white house this morning. let's discuss this with our reporter from business insider and senior political reporter. how would you explain the mixed messages we're now hearing from the administration? the white house is ainge that plan was floated but then ultimately rejected and now the president said he's still looking at it. why are they at odds here? >> i think that the mixed messages here reflect a lot of the internal strife going on in the white house. president trump has said immigration and border security are his key platforms.
we're seeing competing factions in the white house, jockeying to, you know, be the dominant voice on immigration. what happens when you have that is that you have story that come out like with "the washington post" reported, some people in the white house saying no we're not considering it, it's, you know, down right illegal and so on and so forth. then the president, of course, tends to tout what he believes is his unilateral authority on immigration to come out and say yeah we're considering this. again whether or not those policies are actually supported by the legal framework in the country. >> what are the chances this plan actually comes to fruition to any degree here. the mayors in seattle and chicago have essentially said all right cool, bring it on. do we know where that money would come from if that does happen, if it actually come out and he implements that policy? >> there are a dozen and one different details that would have to be put in place. legal challenges you could expect all over the map,
different cities will feel different ways. of course very logistics of it doesn't solve tissue of well okay if people are coming over the border illegally and being dropped off in sanctuary cities, those cities are still in the united states. they could leave those cities. the underlying issue here that donald trump seems to take issue with would not be addressed in any material way by this. also too you have the issue of all right donald trump is constantly talking about we'll shut the border. we'll do this. we'll do that. he's flip flopped to different tactics he wants to take. we also have not only internal strife within the trump administration, but also two competing priorities. front and center is the economy. if you shut the border in any meaningful way you'll affect the economy. the trump administration has acknowledged it straight up. trade, trucks that captain come
over. trains that can't come over. this is a corner stone issue for the trump campaign 2020 if he has any policy going forward on immigration. >> what about reports the president told the interim homeland security chief he would pardon
him if he faced any legal trouble for shutting down the border. the president tweeted a denial of this and one official denied it as well but the "new york times" cited three sources. where does the truth lie? >> what happens when we see new reporting like this out specifically reporting that discusses the president repeatedly trying to stretch the legal boundaries of his executive authority there are a lot of denials initially. as we've seen in the immigration issuely the president or his aides will come out and say well, you know, even if he did consider this it wouldn't be illegal for reasons x, y and z. we're seeing these initial denials now.
this is not the first time we've seen reports of a president floating pardons to people who may not be doing what he's asking them to do. >> dave, you mentioned the economic impact it would have. is it clear about any possible legal fallout for shutting down the border? >> you can expect the sun will rise each day there would be myriad legal challenges to it. how it would take place. it would have to depend on what the president decides what to do. the president talks about a lot of different things, different proposals. many never coming to pass. he floats them. he pulls them back. he floats other ones too. if you went by donald trump and what he said in 2015 about muslims coming into the united states we would have a policy right now with no muslims being able to come in to the united states based on this proposal he put forward. expect a lot of lawyers are readying for anything that can happen but we don't know what
that will be. >> speaking of islam phobia, another controversy. he targeted ilhan omar with a graphic video. it showed the burning world trade center towers and other images from 9/11. it included this part of a speech that omar gave last month about civil rights. >> cair was founded after 9/11 because they recognized that some people did something and that all of us were starting lose access to our civil liberties. >> all right. what is the president doing here? is he trying to appeal to his base? >> there is no doubt that representative omar can certainly speak for e eloquentally. because a group of extremists attacked the world trade center that doesn't mean you should
target muslims as a broader group. but, you know, it's not surprising that the president and a lot of his allies, for example in congress and the right wing media are latching on to these comments, taking them out of context. this is something he did during the 2016 campaign and evidently it paid off for him because he won the presidency. so i wouldn't be surprised if he continue to do this going into 2020 and if his base responds positively to it. >> even democrats like alexandria occasio-cortez, elizabeth warren, bernie sanders, they all say the president is inciting violence against represent omar. but congressman max rose did criticize omar's comments. listen to that. >> ilhan's comments touched a nerve and i've openly said i think they were insensitive and defensive and that's honest critique. what we see with this video is a hyper and dangerous and shameful
escalation that divides this country and it is not what a leader is supposed to do. >> dave, what do you make about democrats responding to those comments made by new members of congress. >> sure. you have some people including democrats, moderates, she probably could have said that in a better way but then adjudicatijuxtaposed with the video put out the president and people think it's a bit too far. there's a lot of height and rhetoric talking about terrorism that democrats are the ones who are really the bad guys and likening them with terrorists. we reported at the center for public integrity the ohio college republican federation put out a fundraising email to its supporters calling representative alexandria occasio-cortez a domestic terrorist, something that representative alexandria occasio-cortez immediately lambasted and created quite a
firestorm in and of itself. that's one example of several out there in very recent days where democrats are being labelled by republicans as mass murderer, people who would do great harm to other americans. >> playing off fear and loathing. next, surveillance or spying? why the attorney general's choice of words is the focus as the country waits. as the uncotry waits. s... u... v... these letters used to mean something. letters earned in backwoods, high hills and steep dunes. but somewhere along the way, suvs became pretenders not pioneers. but you never forgot the difference and neither did we. there are many suvs, but there's only one legend. legends aren't born, they're made.
four zero expense ratio index funds directly to investors. and now we have zero account fees for brokerage accounts. at fidelity, those zeros really add up. ♪ so maybe i'll win, saved by zero ♪ at fidelity, those zeros really add up. woman 1: this is my body of proof. man 1: proof of less joint pain and clearer skin. man 2: proof that i can fight psoriatic arthritis... woman 2: ...with humira. woman 3: humira targets and blocks a specific source of inflammation that contributes to both joint and skin symptoms. it's proven to help relieve pain, stop further irreversible joint damage and clear skin in many adults. humira is the number one prescribed biologic for psoriatic arthritis.
announcer: humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. man 3: ask your rheumatologist about humira. woman 4: go to mypsaproof.com to see proof in action.
did you know comcast business goes beyond fast with a gig-speed network. complete internet reliability. advanced voice solutions. wifi to keep everyone connected. video monitoring. that's huge. did you guys know we did all this stuff? no. i'm not even done yet. wow. business tv. cloud apps and support. comcast business goes beyond at&t. start with internet and voice for just $59.90 a month. it's everything a small business owner needs. comcast business. beyond fast.
new concerns this morning after attorney general bill barr expressed his concerns about potentially unlawful quote spying of the trump campaign. take a listen. >> if i think spying on a political campaign is a big deal and there were a lot of rules put in place to make sure there's an adequate basis before our law enforcement agencies get involved in political surveillance, i'm not suggesting that those rules were violated. i think there was spying that did occur. the question is whether it was predicated, adequately predicated and i'm not suggesting it wasn't but i need to explore that. i think it's my obligation. >> joining me now msnbc legal contributor katie fang. 34 indictments came from this investigation. would it have been more accurate to use the term surveillance. would the attorney general of
the united states used the term spying if he didn't have evidence supporting that. >> what's important to remember that the attorney general is the chief lawyer of the united states government. he's the highest person in office at the department of justice. so it's an exceptionally irresponsible statement for the attorney general of the united states to be so kind of fast and loose when it comes to the choice of words. spying is a colloquial phrase. we would use it while having dinner. strong surveillance is authorized by a court that specifically deals with that type of surveillance. that's a different beast in and of itself. for barr one oath in front congress to make a statement that there was unauthorized or illegal spying going on at a political campaign was like i stated an exyepgs simpleception
irresponsible statement to make. >> what are the legal ramifications. >> there will be no legal fallout to barr. what he's doing is feeding conspiracy theories. if trump really has an interest in wanting to put the anonymity, the divisiveness in the country to bed he shouldn't allow somebody like barr to make statements like that. from a legal standpoint the department of justice has an office of the inspector general. there's a person, there's an inspector general who is conducting his own independent investigation into exactly the allegations that barr is making, which is that there was some type of impropriety when it came to the fisa warrants that were obtained against carter page who was a part of the trump campaign. the inspector general investigation is supposed to wrap up in weeks. barr testified it should to be done in may or june. so for bar to say he has to do
his own investigation i think is pandering to donald trump. >> after barr's testimony a professor, lawrence tribe tweeted barr's comment betray tng rule of law. >> there's a process in place if something was done inappropriately like unauthorized spying on a political campaign the exposure of that will come to light through the inspector general's pros. barr is saying vote of no confidence on the inspector general. barr is saying the guy is not competent enough or barr will have to do it himself. so what's happen like we saw barr's summary of the mueller report which was not necessary for him to do, barr is taking on the mantle right now which no one invited him to do, to do more. >> what would you say the percentage of what he's giving is opinion based or legally
based here? >> he kind of back pedalled a little bit when he said i'm not saying it was wrong, i'm saying it has to be done right. obviously. nobody wants illegal surveillance going on. remember there was an original application to the fisa court. then you had three renewals of that wiretap. so there was four different opportunities for the court to shut it down and say no, it does not rise to the level legally to justify that type of electronic surveillance. but four different times a court said it was okay. so there's a presumption of legal propriety that goes into what happened with these fisa warrants. >> all right, as always, thank you for joining us. getting up early on this saturday. new jersey has become the eighth state in the country to allow terminally ill patients to take their lives. the governor signed the medical aid dying bill. it requires dying patients to receive a diagnosis from two doctors before they can get a
lethal drug. to get a better understanding of death with dignity check out an msnbc news documentary on one patient's decision. a look at the president's seeming amnesia on wikileaks and where is julian assange this morning? what's going to happen to him? but first late night laugh lines with donald trump, steven miller and joe biden in the cross-hairs. >> on a tour of mount vernon donald trump couldn't understand why he didn't name the compound after himself. trump added i guess he was stupid before turning to washington, d.c. >> researchers at the national science foundation revealed the first photo of a black hole. yeah. a cosmic abyss so deep and dense that not even light can escape. that is amazing. okay, let's see it.
>> new poll former vice president joe biden has a double digit lead over bernie sanders in the iowa caucus. it's the most space biden has ever given anyone. mornings were made for better things than rheumatoid arthritis or psoriatic arthritis. when considering another treatment, ask about xeljanz xr a once-daily pill for adults with moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis or active psoriatic arthritis for whom methotrexate did not work well enough. it can reduce pain, swelling, and significantly improve physical function. xeljanz xr can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened.
as have tears in the stomach or intestines, serious allergic reactions, low blood cell counts, higher liver tests and cholesterol levels. don't start xeljanz xr if you have an infection. your doctor should perform blood tests before and while taking xeljanz xr, and monitor certain liver tests. tell your doctor if you've been somewhere fungal infections are common and if you have had tb, hepatitis b or c, or are prone to infections. don't let another morning go by without asking your doctor about xeljanz xr ♪ when you have nausea,
♪ heartburn, ♪ indigestion, ♪ upset stomach, ♪ diarrhea... girl, pepto ultra coating will treat your stomach right. ♪nausea, heartburn, ♪ indigestion, upset stomach, ♪ diarrhea... try pepto with ultra coating. bleech! aww! awww! ♪ it's the easiest because it's the cheesiest. kraft for the win win. it's kind of unfair that safe drivers have to pay as much for insurance... as not safe drivers! ah! that was a stunt driver. that's why esurance has this drivesense® app. the safer you drive, the more you save. don't worry, i'm not using my phone and talking to a camera while driving... i'm being towed. by the way, i'm actually a safe driver. i'm just pretending to be a not safe driver. cool. bye dennis quaid! when insurance is affordable, it's surprisingly painless.
wikileaks founder julian assange is waking up this morning in a small prison cell in london. the prison is known as the british's guantanamo. he was arrested on thursday taken out of the ecuadorian embassy. assange had been indicted in the united states. he's charged with conspiring helping chelsea manning cover her tracks in the hacking of a defense computer and stealing files on afghanistan and iraq wars. joining me now to discuss, opinion editor and columnist at bloomberg. good morning. what is assange's status? is extradition to the united states likely? >> it doesn't seem to be likely. that's one of several things that are hanging over him. what authorities are essentially waiting for if swedish
prosecutors are going to ask for him to be extradited to sweden because of some cases involving rape, molestation, and unlawful coercion from several years ago. remember those were the cases that were being prosecuted against him when he fled to the ecuadorian embassy in london. some of those charges the statute of limitations have expired but with the rape charges those have not expired. swedish prosecutors are looking into whether or not they want to revive that case. if they do, then they might have precedent in british legal tradition. they might have precedence over the american extradition request. >> in term of the charges here in the united states, how do you think they are being perceived by both journalists on one hand and u.s. and uk government on the other. he's clearly a polarizing
figure. >> very polarizing. many of his supporters within the media and outside see him as a martyr in the cause of press freedom, freedom of information. they see him as somebody who hastiha hass is shined a light on government activities. others say he's no journalist. he's somebody who conspired to steal information and then put this information out without any kind of journalistic examination, without any effort of verification and without any effort to give people who are named in all those many, many documents an opportunity to speak their peace. so there's lots of people who feel he's not a journalist, this is not a matter of free speech and it's a fairly straightforward case of whether or not he tried to conspire, steal government information. >> great explanation.
how do you see it? >> i don't think that he's a journalist. i think journalism has very specific rules. if you have conspired to steal information, then that's no longer an act of journalism. i have serious issues of taking a vast amount of material and putting it out there without any kind of filters. without verification and without opportunity to say their peace, explain their position and to protect the lives of people who may be in danger. we as journalists follow those rules. julian assange didn't. he's not a journalist. there's not to say there are not major issues about whistle blowers, protection of whistle blowers. i think the case will hinge on whether or not he persuaded and helped chelsea manning to steal information. if he did then he might be on very thin ice. >> can assange provide
information about the role of wikileaks in the 2016 u.s. election? >> i think undoubtedly he might be able to if he's so inclined. i doubt very much he would be inclined to do so. but i imagine prosecutors in the united states are looking forward to an opportunity to grill him or inter rogate him o question him. he might decide to give evidence to make a plea bargaining deal that he might turn over information about what he knows. wikileaks is at the center of the case. the dramatic revelation of the hillary clinton email at a crucial moment and some of the things assange has said and done since then suggests he had close contact with russian authorities or russian agencies and the american prosecutors will want to know how much he knows what
he did, who he talked to and what his motivations were. >> candidate trump famously calling wikileaks several times during the 2016 election cycle but then he distanced himself from assange when he got arrested. what do you make of that discrepancy there? >> this is classic trump behavior. he starts oh, he's fantastic, best lawyer then when cohen he gets in trouble i don't know him that well. he's not that great lawyer. this is classic trump behavior. it's ridiculous for him to suggest he doesn't know who julian assange is when he specifically named wikileaks and asked and said he loves wikileaks. i think that's the quote. there's video. >> we do have the sound bite to that, you were referring to that. >> wikileaks. wikileaks. wikileaks. wikileaks. wikileaks. wikileaks. wikileaks. now from wikileaks. did you see what came out over
wikileaks? >> do you still love wikileaks? >> i know nothing about wikileaks. it's not my thing. and i know there's something having to do with julian assange. >> all right. you made your opinions very clear. we appreciate your help in letting us all figure it out this morning. appreciate it. >> thanks. a redetected mueller report expected no later than tuesday would provide clarity on big question of obstruction as everybody expect? msnbc now live every saturday and sunday at 6:00 eastern. we're back in a moment. ck in a t to be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing it's best to make you everybody else... ♪ ♪ means to fight the hardest battle, which any human being can fight and never stop. does this sound dismal? it isn't. ♪ ♪
it's the most wonderful life on earth. ♪ ♪ so, every day, we put our latest technology and unrivaled network to work. the united states postal service makes more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. e-commerce deliveries to homes guys do whatever it takes to deal with shave irritation. so, we re-imagined the razor with the new gillette skinguard. it has a unique guard between the blades. that's designed to reduce irritation during the shave. because we believe all men deserve a razor just for them. the best a man can get. gillette. that we just hit the motherlode
of soft-serve ice cream? i got cones, anybody wants one! oh, yeah! get ya some! no, i can't believe how easy it was to save hundreds of dollars on my car insurance with geico. ed! ed! we struck sprinkles! [cheers] believe it. geico could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. i couldn't catch my breath. it was the last song of the night. it felt like my heart was skipping beats. they said i had afib. what's afib? i knew that meant i was at a greater risk of stroke. i needed answers. my doctor and i chose xarelto®. to help keep me protected from a stroke. once-daily xarelto®, a latest-generation blood thinner... significantly lowers the risk of stroke in people with afib not caused by a heart valve problem. in a clinical study,
over 96% of people taking xarelto® remained stroke-free. don't stop taking xarelto® without talking to your doctor, as this may increase your risk of stroke. while taking, you may bruise more easily or take longer for bleeding to stop. xarelto® can cause serious, and in rare cases, fatal bleeding. it may increase your risk of bleeding if you take certain medicines. get help right away for unexpected bleeding or unusual bruising. do not take xarelto® if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. before starting, tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures and any kidney or liver problems. learn all you can... ...to help protect yourself from a stroke. ask your doctor about xarelto®. to learn more about cost and how janssen can help, visit xarelto.com.
next battle 2020. saturday on the stump. beto o'rourke and elizabeth warren are making the most stops today with four events each. all six states will appear in seven states in 16 events. bernie sanders leading the fundraising. the democrats raised $$68 million but still less than what was raised in the first quarter back in 2007. as the attorney general is expected to release a redacted version of the mueller report next week questions continue to
rise over whether the white house may try to influence what's going to be redacted. >> who, if anyone, outside of the justice department has seen portions or all of the special counsel's report? has anyone in the white house seen any of the report? >> i'm not going to -- as i said, i'm landing the plane right now, and, you know, i've been willing to discuss my, my, my letters and the process going forward. but the report will be out next week and i'm just not going to get into the detail profit sees until the plane is on the ground. >> back with us, business insider and dave levinthal. why wouldn't the attorney general say if the white house has seen that report. it an indication the redacted report will raise more questions than answered. >> we already know the report will raise more questions just because the attorney general has been so adamant about the four categories of information that
he intends to redact. some of those koirks for example, information that could affect the reputation or the privacy of peripheral third parties. that's a pretty broad category. we know there are definitely going a lot of questions based on what's redacted. what's interesting to me is that the attorney general has been more forthcoming in the past about, you know, the fact that there was no interference or no discussions with the white house about this report. so that's what made it all the more noteworthy that he didn't say during this hearing that he hadn't discussed it with the white house in recent days. >> the deputy attorney general rod rosenstein says that the attorney general has been quote as forthcoming as he can. and that the notion that he's trying to mislead people is completely bizarre. dave, what's your take on how the redacted report will be playing out here politically? >> it won't work for democrats who have the power at least in congress to subpoena the full
document if they disagree with the notion that this is enough information for them to make decisions about how they conduct their oversight, for example, of the executive branch. to the thornier question of impeachment. democrats internally have been wrestling mightily with some wings of the democratic party saying yes we need 0 to go forward and impeach donald trump. you have others like nancy pelosi saying nope that's not the play we want to make. the mueller report in its unvarnished, unredacted form would help answer questions as to how the democratic caucus should proceed or how they would want to proceed so without having that full information they feel that they don't have enough information to make those determinations. expect a legal battle in a major way if they don't feel like they've gotten what they want. >> on top of all this attorney general suggested the trump campaign was spied on.
here's how this was received. >> this was an attempted coup. this is an attempted take down of a president. we beat them. >> thank god we have an attorney general who calls spying for what is it. >> he hasn't bitten back yet but i wouldn't want to corner him. he's being used as a punching bag. >> president trump evers right all along. we were right all along. >> so, was the attorney general giving the president political cover here or could there be some other explanation as to why he used those exact words the president use, "spying"? >> it is worth noting towards the end of the hearing the attorney general did clarify his comments and said that when he referred to spying he meant unauthorized surveillance which presumably means he's not talking about any surveillance related to fisa warrants. you know related to carter page and so on and so forth. it's not surprising when he worded it that way he was, perhaps, a little bit reckless in echoing the president's exact words and it wasn't surprising that, you know, that would then
lead into a feedback loop where the president and ace allies points to the attorney general's comments this inventory die indicates everything we've been saying. >> the attorney general got up in front of everybody and used the word "spying." >> he sure did. when you use a word like that it's very possible and in a case like this very likely it will create a firestorm in an ideological way had he used another word may not have been the case. >> hard to take that back once it's out there. thank you both for coming back in and speaking with us. from a relative unknown to a popular unstart. what's with the sudden surge of pete buttigieg in the polls. that's next.pstart. what's with the sudden surge of pete buttigieg in the polls.
now home to the uk's most watched detective. "dci vera stanhope" streaming same day as the uk. "well, well, well" escape to britbox. start your free trial today at britbox.com you get the freedom of what a 7-day return policy. this isn't some dealership test drive around the block. it's better. this is seven days to put your carvana car to the test and see if it fits your life. load it up with a week's worth of groceries. take the kiddos out for ice cream. check that it has enough wiggle room in your garage. you get the time to make sure you love it. and on the 6th day, we'll reach out and make sure everything's amazing. if so... excellent. if not, swap it out for another or return it for a refund. it's that simple. because at carvana, your car happiness is what makes us happy.
- when you're volunteering, "it's not my job."r that's because right where you live, there's a need for your time and skills and effort and talent. please consider volunteering and feeling that feeling that you helped someone today. in politics, power and paychecks while the arrest of julian assange raised questions about the freedom of the press, a new study says weakened press can affect elections. in cities where newspapers have suffered sharp declines insurance newsroom staffing voter declines and fewer people run for mayor because of less coverage of local government.
my refund of half of what it normally is. >> tax refund disappointment. the average refund this season of just over $2800 is about 30 bucks than last year's. with just two days to go before the deadline the rirs has received 300,000 fewer returns compared to a year ago. now to the 2020 race and a new poll out of iowa showing pete buttigieg surging in third place. joe biden and bernie sanders holding on to the top two spots at 27 and 16% respectively. then pete buttigieg, elizabeth warren and kamala harris round out the top five. joining me now to talk about this, democratic strategist, former senior adviser to hillary clinton's campaign and nationally syndicated columnist and also a "boston herald" radio host. good morning to you most. a lot of buzz around pete buttigieg. the "l.a. times" recently calling him the hottest thing in
politics. how significant is this ride at third place at this stage of the race? >> it's measurable. there's potential for mayor pete fever to break out in the democratic primary. however, i always caution people about polls. they are simply a snapshot of the time. depending on who is asking the question, how it's being asked and when determines the response you get. i commend pete because he was quite frankly a not known candidate up to this point. now he's making headway and that's a prime example of what happens when you're able to effectively communicate a message that resonates with people. >> you're watching this. how do you explain his rise? >> well, you know, i agree. he's an appealing candidate. he speaks very well. mayor pete is very articulate. there's lightning in the bottle for the lgbtq community. we saw that in the mid-terms. there's a surge of lgbtq candidates that have been elected nationwide and now we
just saw the mayor of chicago part of that community. she won every county. she was widely received and elected in that major city so there is a movement. there's definitely a welcoming atmosphere out there for lgbtq candidates and that's something our country should applaud. >> i want to caution my friend for one second. i don't know we should put mayor pete in a box that's the reason why he's having success. ehaving success because he's talking about bread and butter issues. if you live in south carolina, barbecue issues. those are things voters are excited about even those who don't align themselves with the democratic party but tend to fall in line with the independent thinking category. he's generating excitement, generating money and generating momentum. the key to this race is sustainability. >> we have this back and forth
between pete buttigieg and mike pence. let's listen to the latest on that. >> we had a great working relationship, and he said some things that are critical of my christian faith and about me personally. he knows better. he knows me. >> i'm not critical of his faith. i'm critical of bad policies. i have a problem with religion used as a justification to harm people. especially in the lgbtq community. it shouldn't be legal to discriminate against anyone in the country for who they are. >> is that a fair criticism, adriana? >> i want to reiterate first that vice president pence has supported mayor pete. when he came out in 2015, vice president pence applauded him. called him a patriot. that needs to be said. the trump administration is right now engaged in a global
push to decriminalize homosexuality around the world. when democrats accuse republicans of being anti-lgbt, that's simply false. i want to make it clear that was probably the most perhaps under reported story this global push by the trump administration to decriminalize homosexuality. >> slow down for a second. i think it is malpractice for you to say this administration, particularly this vice president doesn't have a record of being anti-lgbtq on the issues. i think the proof is in the pudding. in this case, mayor pete represents what indiana is and going to be. mike pence represents what indiana used to be. that is where the divide is. you can translate that to this country. i think this administration, if you look at the policy positions they have taken as it relates to the lgbt community and the mood of the country, they are out of
touch and out of bounds. >> antjuan. >> president trump says he is fine with same-sex marriage. let's not forget president obama was not. when he ran for office -- >> that i read about recently? if you read that and if you heard about that, you understand the position i a this morning. >> go ahead. >> i want to say people's positions evolve. president obama ran in 2008 being against same-sex marriage. same with hillary clinton. bill clinton supported don't ask don't tell. their positions have evolved. maybe vice president pence will as well in the future. that being said, president trump said he is fine with same-sex marriage. his administration is engaged in a global push to decriminalize homosexuality. that should be commended. >> you are playing political dodgeball. have you heard or seen the
recent military ban i mplemente by this administration. you can't have it both ways. you have to call things the way they are. call balls and strikes like you see them. we are doing a disservice by coming on the program by trying to bojangle the american people. >> just because he doesn't support transgender in the military doesn't mean he is anti-lgbt. >> how does that work? >> adriana, there are now 18 democrats running against donald trump. in an early clip from "face the nation" we got a hold of it. here is what they are saying about the large field we see here. >> i'm not really worried about any of them right now. i think they will beat up each other so much. i'm expecting another 15 by next weekend it seems. >> beto o'rourke, bernie sanders. they have been given credit for building out in the digital space. connecting with people. >> none have touched one.
nobody in the republican po politics has been this excited. >> what do you think? does trump benefit from more democrats running or is he downplaying the threat? >> i think brad is right. all these candidates, you know, they will have to battle it out and fight for money and fight for name recognition. none of them can touch president trump right now in 2020. the democrat party has swung so far to the left. they disconnected with every day voters. you know, this is a party that supports the green new deal which is estimated to cost $93 trillion. it is simply not going to happen. they support medicare for all which costs $33 trillion. the policies democrats are presenting will bankrupt america. destroy millions of jobs. this will not appeal to every day americans. >> antjuan, should democrats be concerned about the vote being
fractured because there are so many candidates out there right now? >> does it make it true? i think we will have a robust and intense primary just like the republicans in 2016. it gives the marketplace of ideas to take place. that's okay. i do believe if we communicate a message as we did in 2018 that connected with democrats, republicans and independent thinkers alike, we will not only see what we saw in 2018, but we expand those numbers and take back that temporary public housing unit at 1600 pennsylvania avenue. to my party, if we do not come together whoever we nominate and support the ticket, we will be back in the same box now as would not have failed this party, but failed this country. for us, stronger together means everything. >> adriana, you have to give me one. who do you fear most out of the
democratic field. >> i don't fear anyone. no one is a threat right now. >> she's had too much of the kool-aid this morning. >> a strong economy. it is the economy, stupid. robust economy. at the end of the day, americans care about more money in their paycheck. >> they care about health care as they did in 2018. it did not work. we will see the same results in 2020 if you run on that. run, please run. >> i appreciate the spirited debate. thank you for joining us. solving a problem or getting even? what's behind the president's threat to send immigrants away from the border and into sanctuary cities and a closer look if he can make that happen. .
as the one who is always trapped beneath the duvet i'm begging you... take gas-x. your tossing and turning isn't restlessness, it's gas! gas-x relieves pressure, bloating and discomfort... fast! so we can all sleep easier tonight. not this john smith. or this john smith. or any of the other hundreds of john smiths that are humana medicare advantage members. no, it's this john smith.
all right. that wraps up this hour of msnbc live. i'm phillip mena. it is now time for "weekends with alex witt." >> great to start the weekend with you, phillip. good morning. good morning to all of you from msnbc headquarters in new york. 7:00 a.m. in the east. welcome to "weekends with alex witt." a new flash point in the fight over immigration. >> more people in the sanctiuar cities. >> stepping on the traditional norms and rights. he never seems