tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC May 15, 2019 10:00pm-11:00pm PDT
>> that does it for us tonight. very happy to have you with us. i'll see you again tomorrow. now it's time for "the last worded with lawrence o'donnell." >> good evening, rachel. the situation in alabama is moving quickly. we'll have joyce vance join us, a former u.s. attorney fra alabama to tell us what the next legal step is. this is clearly a law, an abortion ban law not designed to be implemented but designed to go to court. >> yes. >> so we will hear from joyce what happens next. >> the great thing about having joyce on this issue too is joyce was doing the best national legal analysis about that will bill even before it passed.
>> yes. >> when it finally did get passed and signed into law, joyce has already basically laid the groundwork for how we could understand did. it's interesting, i mean, i don't know if it is a good road test case but that's what they think it is. >> we'll see what joyce says. >> thank you. elizabeth warren went to west virginia to the a place where most of the voters voted for donald trump. county where 60% of the voters voted for donald trump. she talked directly to trump voters. some of those trump voters actually said she did a good job. they were impressed with her. didn't say they were going to switch and vote for her necessarily but at least one of them was thinking about it. elizabeth warren said she really enjoyed talking to those trump voters and is willing to do it again and is going to do it again anytime and anyplace except on fox. later in this hour, we will show you elizabeth warren's explanation for her decision in her own words about why she will not participate in any candidate
town hall on fox. but first tonight, tonight is the deadline that house intelligence committee chairman adam schiff set on his subpoena for attorney general william barr to turn over the full unredacted mueller report to the committee and the foreign intelligence and counter intelligence information collected during robert mueller's investigation. this morning, chairman schiff said it was too early to say as of this morning whether there had been progress in his talks with the department of justice about that. >> any progress in your talks with the doj? >> too early for me to say for sure. but i should know more hopefully later today. >> would you consider contempt. >> we're prepared to doll whatever's necessary to make sure they comply. >> and tonight it is unclear whether the justice department has yet responded to chairman
schiff's subpoena. we don't know any more about that. today the white house counsel sent a 12-page letter to house judiciary committee chairman jerry nadler rejecting all of chairman nadler's requests for documents in the committee's investigation of possible obstruction of justice by the president of the united states. the white house letter to chairman nadler said that the committee's investigation is "not to further a legitimate legislative purpose," and is "outside the constitutional authority of the legislative branch." chairman nadler told reporters his reaction. >> i don't know whether they're trying to taunt us toward impeachment or anything else. all i know is they have made a preposterous claim. taking that position that a president cannot be indicted is saying only congress can hold a president accountable and now they're saying that congress can't which means nobody can which means the president is above the law and that is an un-american frankly un-american
claim. >> chairman nadler and other house democratic leaders are considering whether they should hold administration officials in contempt of congress to highlight the trump administration's unprecedented obstruction of legitimate congressional investigations. today, in what might be the first time since 1934, had the concept of inherent contempt was being discussed on capitol hill. 1934 was the last time we saw inherent contempt used by congress. in 1934, the united states senate issued subpoenas to a washington attorney and that washington attorney refused to comply with those subpoenas whereupon the senate sergeant at arms went out and arrested that private attorney and kept him in custody for inherent contempt of the united states senate. the supreme court upheld the senate's constitutional power to take such action in that case.
and now, 85 years after that, the chairman of the house judiciary committee was asked today about inherent contempt. >> some of your colleagues want to vote for inherent contempt. to fine people who are defying subpoenas. is that something you're seriously considering at this point? >> yes. >> what do you think about terms of dollar amount or fines? >> i don't know. very large amounts. >> would it be for the attorney general? >> it would be for anybody who was held in inherent contempt. >> yesterday, in federal court, a private attorney representing donald trump in a lawsuit trying to block a congressional subpoena of trump financial records from an accounting firm used that very same line of argument that the white house counsel used today in that letter to jerry nadler rejecting the document request. the private attorney
consovoy representing the president said in court yesterday that the congressional subpoenas seeking trump financial records did not have a legislative purpose, a legitimate legislative purpose. the judge was very surprised at that argument since historically, congressional subpoenas have been issued for investigative purposes as well as legislative purposes very broadly defined. the judge said to the president's lawyer, so in your view, congress's investigations in whitewater, for example, and watergate were beyond the scope of its constitutional authority? to which the president's lawyer actually said, i'd have to look at what the basis they were providing. the judge was stunned as surely everyone in the courtroom was that the president's lawyer was not sure whether the congressional investigations of president bill clinton and president richard nixon both of which eventually led to impeachment proceedings were constitutional. and the judge went back and forth with the lawyer at some
length finally getting the lawyer to admit that the trump position is the president simply cannot be investigated by congress. here's the transcript. the court, so congress in your view cannot determine say, for example, a president had a financial interest in a particular piece of legislation that was being considered or an executive action that he was considering in your view, congress could not investigate whether such a conflict of interest, whether the president has such a conflict of interest or the conflict of interest might in some way bear on decision making by the president? >> mrs. consovoy, it would lack legitimate legislative purpose and that is the test. legitimate legislative purpose. that is what that he saying is the reason they're defying all of this, that the congress has no legislative purpose.
the attorney general is treating this passed against him by the house judiciary committee as a joking matter. at a ceremonial event today, the attorney general approached house speaker nancy pelosi, shook her hand, and said loudly enough for people to hear it, madam speaker, did you bring your handcuffs? according to "the washington post," pelosi smiled and responded that the house sergeant at arms was present should it be necessary to arrest anyone a person said adding that barr chuckled and walked away. leading off our discussion tonight, our democratic congresswoman madeleine dean of pennsylvania, a member of the house judiciary committee whose subpoenas are being defied by the white house, lisa graves is with us, a former senate judiciary committee staff member and a former deputy assistant attorney general under president clinton and chris lew, former white house cabinet secretary under president obama and he has also served as the deputy chief counsel of the house oversight
committee. congresswoman dean, has your reaction today to that 12-page letter basically saying that there were just no purposes, no legitimate purposes stated by the judiciary committee for obtaining any of this documentation? >> i think it's a stunning letter by the white house counsel. and i think jerry nadler, chairman nadler's response was exactly right. imagine the letter came to us to the chairman suggesting that we had no business continuing with any more oversight as to the mueller investigation as to obstruction of justice in light of what the mueller report says. what i am constantly stunned by is members of the republican party or this president or the people who work around this president constantly referring to no collusion, no obstruction. of course, if you read the mueller report, you would find something very, very different. you'd find more than 160 contacts between the trump
campaign and russia for the benefit of the trump campaign and they knew it. that russia sweepingly and systematically interfered with our elections and yet we have an administration that seems to care little about that was we go into the future and into 2020. then we have volume 2 which says that this administration, this president showed evidence of obstruction of justice multiple times as many as at least a dozen times and mueller himself said he is giving it to congress, that it is up to congress to go forward. he wanted to preserve evidence even in the face of the fact that the administration destroyed evidence and there were things that the mueller investigation couldn't even get to. but it's just a stunning assertion by this counsel but you saw and you just revealed the stunning ridiculous arguments that were made yesterday before a court. so the truth bears very little on this administration and their legal arguments. >> chris lu, we feel lucky to
get you here tonight because you have experience at both ends of these kinds of subpoenas having worked in the obama administration, receiving these kinds of subpoenas from congress, having worked in the oversight committee in the house sending out subpoenas like this. what is your reaction to these developments where the white house is saying under no circumstances will they will respond to anything? >> yeah, you know, i think the white house counsel would be smart to brush up not only on his law but also his history, as well. this idea, look, certainly congress's investigative powers are not unlimited. but the limits are not to be dictated by the executive branch. and this idea there has to be a legitimate legislative purpose, that's something that this white house has concocted. that being said, any first year law student could come up with a dozen legitimate legislative purposes for every one of these investigations. so it's not only that they're wrong on the law, they're also wrong on the history. if you go back and look at the
investigations they conducted of president bill clinton, i was on the house oversight committee during that period of time when congressman dan burton, a republican did investigations of things like travel gate, file gate, we ended up doing whitewater before it went to the special counsel. there was an investigations of president clinton's last-minute pardons of marc rich which this white house counsel has said cannot be investigated by congress. so the history of republican investigations is completely at odds with the arguments they're making here. and it's important to understand if you take their arguments to their logical extreme, this is a president above the law. and so yes, it is odd we're talking about inherent contempt, something that hasn't been used since the 1930s. that tells you we're in a little bit of uncharted territory right now. >> lisa graves i learned about inherent contempt today. you could work for several years in the united states senate as i did and never even hear the phrase come up. that's the kind of rare
territory we've stepped into. >> well, that's right. i think that it's important to understand that those powers go back you know almost two suns basically. there's a lot of black letter law about congress' power. it's just in this statutory era, congress has not used those powers. it's been able to get cooperation from presidents and administrations and been able to use referrals to the justice department. here you have a situation where the president and his lawyers and interestingly and disturbingly the white house counsel and his private counsel are singing the same tune with this argument that the congress does not have the these powers, the powers to investigate the president or to seek these documents. that's in defiance of black letter law. these are settled rules that have been settled for many, many years. and as you point out inherent power has been rarely used because it's been rarely necessary to be used. the fact is the supreme court has commented repeatedly on the breadth of congressional investigatory power and the pour
of congress to seek material and get material including talking about it being penetrating and far reaching, a far reaching power. and so these arguments are really in defiance of the law and in many ways this is like the david frost, nixon interview without it being nixon and david frost in which nixon said infamously if the president does it, it must be legal. that's where we are. so even though there's no like fire physical fire, it's as if the constitution is on fire and the article 1 of the constitution is being blow theed out by these guys. >> congresswoman dean, we just heard your chairman of your committee jerry nadler say that it feels like the president is trying to,ings is taunting you into impeachment. is the president taunting you into impeachment? and what next? >> i wouldn't call it taunting. i would say he may leave us no other alternative. he certainly has shown evidence of impeachable offenses. i'm a lawyer by training. and i'm a member of this
judiciary committee. so i care very much about process and making sure we get the truth before the american public before we do something as grave and as important and possibly very necessary under this administration. so the president may just be leaving us know other alternative. but something i wanted to make sure i make mention of is the fact that as important as all of this is and as extraordinary as it is that we might be talking about inherent contempt and i too had to brush up on what that meant as a member of congress, it's extraordinary we are pushed to that point. and also, what i hope that your listeners your viewers want to know is that while we're doing this, this is a congress that is both walking, chewing gum and flossing at the same time. is what i like to say. we have to do it all. it is important, it is constitutionally our duty to do oversight on an administration that is the most corrupt, did i
divicive, deceitful, cruel administration that i've ever seen in my lifetime. we're passing legislation. this new majority is passing legislation whether it's regarding gun violence which the senate is sitting on its hands, health care, prescription drug pricing, hr1, good governance and anti-corruption and working back in our districts and working on issues like in my district we have an issue of clean water. so this is a congress prepared to do it all, walk, chew gum and floss at the same time. but we will not be shirking our duty of oversight on this had corrupt administration. >> chris lu, if you were still at your old job on the house oversight committee, that would su be advising the house to do. >> exactly what they're doing. the house needs to consider every power it has at this point. it is trying to get both an oversight and judiciary trying to get these documents from other sources. i'm confident that some of these also prevail.
obviously, the court case that was being argued the other day involved the house oversight and financial records. we also have for instance in the house ways and means effort to get the president's tax returns. there may be a way to backdoor way to get that through new york. there are private entities that congress will be able to get this information through. but it is important to understand again history in all of this. if you go back to watergate, article 3 of the nixon impeachment was for the president for president nixon willfully disobeying subpoenas of the house judiciary committee. so i don't know if this is a president who is consciously trying to bait the house into impeachment. >> lisa graves your advice as a former senate staffer to the house and i understand that the house doesn't like to get advice from the senate but go ahead. >> i appreciate that. you know, i think that i have tremendous trust in congressman nadler and the other chairmen to pursue this. i know they've got a great team
on board and looking at all options. i think they have to act. they have to act both morally and for the sake of our constitution. they have to defend the rule of law in the face of this incredible defiance. it's their duty and i know they're up to the task. >> congresswoman madeleine dean, thank you for joining us once again tonight. and lisa graves, chris lu, thank you both for joining us. when we come back, the court challenge to alabama's new abortion ban will begin immediately. former u.s. attorney joyce vance will join us with what happens next. also tonight, at the trump research administration ramps up hostilities with iran, president trump himself is reportedly in conflict with his advisers over what to do next with iran.
if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, every day can begin with flakes. it's a reminder of your struggles with psoriasis. but what if your psoriasis symptoms didn't follow you around? that's why there's ilumya. with just 2 doses, a majority of people were clear or almost clear. and over time, even more people were clear or almost clear. all with dosing 4 times a year... after 2 initial doses. plus, ilumya was shown to have similar risks of infections compared to placebo. don't use if you are allergic to ilumya or any of its ingredients. before starting treatment, your doctor should check for tuberculosis and infections. after checking there is no need for routine lab monitoring
unless your doctor advises it. ilumya may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. tell your doctor if you have an infection or have symptoms, or if you plan to or have recently received a vaccine. this could be your chance to leave your psoriasis symptoms behind. ask your doctor for ilumya today, for a clearer tomorrow. did you know comcast business goes beyond fast with a gig-speed network. complete internet reliability. advanced voice solutions. wifi to keep everyone connected. video monitoring. that's huge.
did you guys know we did all this stuff? no. i'm not even done yet. wow. business tv. cloud apps and support. comcast business goes beyond at&t. start with internet and voice for just $59.90 a month. it's everything a small business owner needs. comcast business. beyond fast. >> breaking news tonight. alabama's republican governor kay ivey did sign into law a bill that outlaws abortion except in cases of what the new law calls "a serious health risk to the pregnant woman." cases of rape and incest are not exempt under this bill and doctors who perform an abortion could face up to 99 years in prison. the governor acknowledged that this bill is designed to get the supreme court to reconsider and overturn roe versus wade. the governor said in a statement, the sponsors of this bill believe that it is time once again for the u.s. supreme court to revisit this important
matter and they believe this act may bring about the best opportunity for this to occur. alabama's abortion ban is not slated to take effect for six months but planned parenthood and the aclu have already said they plan to challenge it. today, the groups filed a lawsuit to block ohio's six-week abortion ban, that doesn't allow abortions after six weeks from taking effect in july arguing that it directly conflicts with the precedent and the rules set in roe versus wade. ohio is one of four states just this year to impose some form of a ban abortion after six weeks of pregnancy before most women even know that they are pregnant. courts have already struck down similar laws passed in iowa, kentucky and north dakota. today the democratic presidential candidates reacted to the new alabama law.
>> what they did in alabama, what they did in georgia is unconstitutional. >> they're trying to overturn roe versus wade. that's wrong and we will fight back. >> it's nothing short of an attack on women's basic human rights and civil rights. it's something that women of america are going to have to fight against with everything they've got. >> women's health care is under attack and we will not stand for it! we will not stand for it! >> joining us now is stacey fox, the president and ceo of planned parenthood southeast. also with us joyce vance form her u.s. attorney for the northern district of alabama and professor at is the alabama school of law, an msnbc legal contributor. joyce vance, what happens next? >> well, next we'll see this alabama bill begin to face legal challenges. i suspect we'll also see an outpouring of protests, certainly in alabama where those protests have already been scheduled for this sunday.
but i think also across the country. and therein alabama bill which is soda crohnian may spark nationwide focus on what's going on in this area. >> let's listen to what pat robertson had to say today because stacey fox, this may be the first time you find yourself agreeing with pat robertson, at least in part. let's listen to this. >> i think alabama has gone too far. they've passed a law that would give a 99-year prison sentence to people who commit abortion. there's no exception for rape or incest. it's an extreme law and they want to challenge roe versus wade but my humble view is that this is not the case we want to bring to the supreme court because i think this one will lose. >> stacey fox, how did alabama go farther than pat robertson's willing to go? >> lawrence, i think yesterday alabama went so far as to ignore
the rape survivors that were standing in the gary while the senate was debating this bill. they clearly stated yesterday they don't actually care about the women of bethlehem and this is no more than a political game. we work across georgia, alabama and mississippi. all three states have enacted bans like this and are literally playing games with women's lives in the south. >> joyce vance, what do you make of pat robertson's legal scholarship here saying he actually thinks this is a bad case for abortion opponents to bring to the supreme court, that pat robertson thinks this one will lose. >> >> well, if you believe in traditional legal analysis, a precedent like roe versus wade which is almost 50 years old and certainly well established is a precedent that can't can be challenged by any of these cases. so in that sense, pat robertson is absolutely correct. the serious prospect we face
here, lawrence, is watching this effort not just to the erode, not just to chip away at the protections that roe versus wade established for women but a full frontal assault designed to eradicate it the in legal press didn't not warranted by the alabama bill or any other bill. >> i want to take a look at glamour magazine cover, this is a nonpolitical magazine to say the least. they have put up there the will the 25 men who voted for this alabama bill. these are the 25 who in particular voted against an amendment that would have allowed an exception for victims of rape or incest. and stacey, talk about what the reaction has been in alabama where you are in these last 24 hours. >> well, i think bethlehemians are pore o horrified just in the hours after the vote in the senate last night, thousands of alabamians have signed on to veto petition that we've stood up and i think in a state where
51% of the population of alabama are women and where women are dying from cervical cancer, the state said loud and clear they don't care about women's health. they will care about their own political gains. and lawrence, to be honest, you know, who are on my mind today are our patients. our patients who aren't following the news really closely. they're seeing the headlines and they're worried that abortion is already illegal in alabama. and i want them to know that will abortion is safe and legal and available to them and we will fight this every step of the way. >> good point. joyce vance, this bill does not take effect for six months. can the legal challenge to the bill begin before the bill takes effect? >> you know, it can and this is typically in alabama how we've dealt with unconstitutional state laws like we dealt with the alabama's immigration bill in 2011. the hope here is that folks like the aclu whoever else chooses to challenge this bill will go into court and have it enjoined so it
will never go into effect and impact the lives of alabama women. >> stacey fox and jis vance, thank you very much for joining us on this important story tonight. >> thanks, lawrence, thanks joyce. >> when we come back, the trump administration is ramping up hostilities with iran. president trump himself is reportedly in arguments with his advisers over this. former national security council member richard clarke will join us. drive safely.. . with drivewise. it lets you know when you go too fast... ...and brake too hard. with feedback to help you drive safer. giving you the power to actually lower your cost. unfortunately, it can't do anything about that. now that you know the truth...
are you in good hands? woman: (on phone) discover. hi. do you have a travel card? yep. our miles card. earn unlimited 1.5 miles and we'll match it at the end of your first year. nice! i'm thinking about a scuba diving trip. woman: ooh! (gasp) or not. you okay? yeah, no, i'm good. earn miles. we'll match 'em at the end of your first year. and relief from symptoms caused by over 200 indoor ynon-drowsy claritin and outdoor allergens. like those from buddy. live claritin clear. for one week only, save up to $18
"the washington post" is reporting president trump is frustrated with some of his top advisers who he thinks could rush the united states into a military confrontation with iran. and shatter his long-standing pledge to withdraw from costly foreign wars according to several u.s. officials. yesterday, we saw something at the pentagon we've never seen before. a general publicly disagreeing with the president's position. this time on iran. the general was a british major general who was appearing at the pentagon on video from baghdad in his capacity as deputy commander of the american-led coalition in iraq and syria which includes british troops. >> well, i guess we don't have >> we are aware of their presence clearly.
if the threat level goes up, we will raise our levels accordingly. the trump administration announced an evacuation of the american embassy in baghdad. the pentagon disputed the british major general's comments calling them "counter to the identified credible threats available to intelligence from u.s. and allies regarding iranian-backed forces in the region." but "the new york times" reports that one american official said the new intelligence of an increased iranian threat was "small stuff" and did not merit the military planning being driven by national security adviser john bolton. the "times" reports privately several european officials described bolton and secretary of state mike pompeo as pushing an uninspecting mr. trump through steps that is could push the united states on a coarse to war before the president realizes it." skeptics include one of the
president's most devoted senate allies lindsey graham who asked the state department to explain why the embassy in iraq was evacuated and said "i have no idea what the threat stream is beyond what i read in the paper." democratic congressman john garamendi today compared the trump administration's handling of iran to the incident used to justify american involvement in the vietnam war. >> yes, there are problems in iraq. yes, there are concerns in iraq. do we need an arizona craft carrier to deal with those, do we need b-52 bombers? are we headed for a gulf of tonkin situation? i believe we may very well be in that situation. >> the gulf of tonkin authorized president lyndon johnson's use of force in vietnam. after a u.s. navy confrontation with north vietnamese forces in the gulf of tonkin, the details of that naval encounter in the
gulf of tonkin were later showed to have been wildly exaggerated and falsely portrayed by the johnson administration in order to justify what became an out-of-control american war in vietnam in which the united states lost 5,000 troops and in the end the united states lost the war. next, we'll be joined by a former national security official who saw the george w. bush administration's march to war in the middle east, richard clarke is a former counter-terrorism adviser who became one of the strongest opponents of the iraq war. he'll join us to discuss president trump, john bolton and what happens next with iran. i like to make my life easy.
( ♪ ) romo mode. (beep) (bang) good luck with that one. yes! that's why i wear skechers slip-ons. they're effortless. just slip them right on and off. skechers slip-ons, with air-cooled memory foam. woman 1: this... woman 2: ...this... man 1: ...this is my body of proof. man 2: proof of less joint pain... woman 3: ...and clearer skin. man 3: proof that i can fight psoriatic arthritis... woman 4: ...with humira. woman 5: humira targets and blocks a specific source of inflammation that contributes to both joint and skin symptoms.
it's proven to help relieve pain, stop further irreversible joint damage, and clear skin in many adults. humira is the number one prescribed biologic for psoriatic arthritis. (avo): humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. woman 6: ask your rheumatologist about humira. woman 7: go to mypsaproof.com to see proof in action. woman 7: go to mypsaproof.com we're finally back out in our yard, but so are they. scotts turf builder triple action. it kills weeds, prevents crabgrass and feeds so grass can thrive, guaranteed. our backyard is back. this is a scotts yard.
>> here is that british major general speaking from baghdad on video at the pentagon disagreeing with president trump yesterday. >> no, there's been no increased threat from iranian-backed forces in iraq and syria. we're aware of their presence clearly and we monitor them along with a whole rake of others if the threat level perceives to go up, then we'll raise our protection perks. >> joining us is richard clarke who served three presidents on issues from cyber security to counter-terrorism. he is now chairman of the middle east institute. richard clarke, you've seen all of this before. you saw the ramp up to war in iraq.
does this feel familiar to you and what's your reaction to that moment yesterday at the pentagon where a british general be contradicting the trump administration? >> well, lawrence, it feels very familiar insofar as the united states government is taking an intentional act, series of intentional acts that will likely provoke conflict. that's what happened with iraq and maybe what's about to happen with iran. we are waging economic warfare on iran. we announced last month further economic sanctions on them. we're crippling their economy. they have sent a message, a very clear message to anyone who will listen that they are going to do something. they can't take it anymore. we're waging economic war on them. they have to do something in response. they have said that. so there is intelligence that they're doing things. they're telling us through a
variety of channels that they intend on doing things. including attacking hthe saudis and the emirates. then over the weekend, we saw their houthi allies do precisely that. but let's be clear. we are provoking this iranian action by the economic sanctions. >> the president according to "washington post," they're reporting tonight president trump grew angry last week and over the weekend about what he sees as war-like planning that is getting ahead of his own thinking on iran. one official told "the washington post" he is not comfortable with all this regime change talk which to his ears echoes the discussion of removing iraqi president saddam hussein before the 2003 u.s. invasion. and john bolton is, of course, one of the people who is known for regime change talk about iran. >> well, as much as i'd like to blame all of this on my friend john bolton, this administration has been consistent since the day it came in wanting to rip up
the nuclear agreement, wanting to impose economic sanctions, talking about regime change. it's not just bolton. it's the president is suddenly waking up and realizing what he, the president himself has been saying and doing for the last two years maybe that's a good thing. maybe its not too late. we're getting very close to the edge here. we're in a danger zone and we could have an accidental war where u.s. and iranian ships or aircraft in the gulf could end up fighting each other and it could get out of hand. >> that sounds like the kind of thing that some were referring to in the "washington post" reporting where they're saying this could move at a pace that donald trump himself doesn't understand. >> i think that's absolutely right. i don't think he's ever been been briefs on the hyper war that could occur. how fast it could involve the saudis, israelis, emiratis and us and how major economic
effects could occur. if oil doesn't get out of the gulf, if natural gas doesn't get out of the gulf, the world economy will be very badly damaged very quickly. and that could happen. >> so you're suggesting in a conflict with iran it wouldn't affect just oil supply from iran. >> no, it would stop the flow of natural gas out of qatar on which tokyo depends. there's a one-day shortage of gas flowing out of qatar, they'll probably be brownouts in japan. all of the oil and gas that flow out of the gulf from the five or six countries that export through the gulf would be affected. >> richard clarke, could you stay with us? i'd like to after a break here talk to you about the preparations for cyber defense in our next election which we don't really seem to be mounting. if we can squeeze in a quick break, if you could stay, i'd like to talk to you about that. we'll come right back after the breaking with richard clarke's
assessment of the cyber threat during our next election. staying at hampton for a work trip. oh no. your new boss seems cool, but she might not be sweatpants cool. not quite ready to face the day? that's why we're here with free hot breakfast. book at hampton.com for our price match guarantee. hampton by hilton. book at hampton.com for our they're america'sntee. biopharmaceutical researchers. pursuing life-changing cures
wow, you've outdone yourself this time. hey, what're neighbors for? it's beautiful. run with us. search "john deere x300" for more. when you rent from national... it's kind of like playing your own version of best ball. because here, you can choose any car in the aisle, even if it's a better car class than the one you reserved. so no matter what, you're guaranteed to have a perfect drive. [laughter] (vo) go national. go like a pro. see what i did there?
at comcast, we didn't build the nation's largest gig-speed network just to make businesses run faster. we built it to help them go beyond. because beyond risk... welcome to the neighborhood, guys. there is reward. ♪ ♪ beyond work and life... who else could he be? there is the moment. beyond technology... there is human ingenuity. ♪ ♪ every day, comcast business is helping businesses go beyond the expected, to do the extraordinary. take your business beyond. the mueller report volume 1, page 51. in august, 2016, russian officers targeted employees of a voting technology company that developed software used by numerous u.s. counties to manage voter rolls. and installed malware on the company network.
yesterday, florida's governor said that the fbi has told him of two florida counties where russian hackers have tapped into their voter file. back with us is richard clarke, counter-terrorism expert. richard clarke, your reaction to both of those things. first that notation in the mueller report and then possibly its linkage to what we're learning in. >> well, they are linked. and the remarkable thing about that event yesterday was the governor of florida is saying he had been forced by the fbi to sign a secrecy oath before they would tell him anything. and they told him he couldn't tell the two the counties involved the citizens of those counties ortsds public what counties had been hacked. that's just ridiculous. the russians know what they did. there's no reason why the american people can't know. but the larger issue here, lawrence, is there are 4,000
counties in the united states. and they are not equipped to protect themselves against nation state attacks from russian gru hackers. my day job is cyber security. and i know major corporations can't figure out when they've been hacked. despite a lot of investment. for these counties to say we know we weren't hacked, they don't know. the fbi doesn't know. it's likely that the russian hacking was far more extensive than we're aware of. if the russians wanted to hide their tracks they're pretty good at doing that. >> the president has issued no orders within the administration to augment our defenses against a russian attack in 2020. how much do you expect the bureaucracies within the administration are doing that anyway even without a specific presidential directive, and what do you expect in 2020?
>> i expect the russians to be more sophisticated next time because we're on to themn. the real power of the u.s. government doesn't get played out. it needs white house leadership. dhs is doing what it can. i know senator widen is about to introduce legislation, the federal cybersecurity election act will give more authority and direction but it unlikely to get pasted. we may very well go into the next election without a adequate defense against what will be a more sophisticated russian program. >> and if the russians really are going after voting machines or voter roles, they would presumably be using the electoral college map to do that. they wouldn't waste their time on anything in new york or california or alabama or example
or utah where those are very heavily either democrat or republican states, they couldn't affect the outcome. they would not go into those states that swung it for the president, wisconsin, pennsylvania, places like that? >> not only that, lawrence. they will go into the swing counties and precincts and know where they are. i wouldn't be surprised when we do learn what counties were hacked in florida if one of them wasn't broward. >> richard clark, thanks for joining us. when we come back, you'll be able to hear elizabeth warren's reasons for refusing to appear in a town hall on fox. that the next. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable.
don't use if you're allergic to otezla. it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. tell your doctor about your medicines and if you're pregnant or planning to be. ready to treat differently with a pill? otezla. show more of you.
if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, every day can begin with flakes. it's a reminder of your struggles with psoriasis. but what if your psoriasis symptoms didn't follow you around? that's why there's ilumya. with just 2 doses, a majority of people were clear or almost clear. and over time, even more people were clear or almost clear. all with dosing 4 times a year... after 2 initial doses. plus, ilumya was shown to have similar risks of infections compared to placebo. don't use if you are allergic to ilumya or any of its ingredients. before starting treatment, your doctor should check for tuberculosis and infections. after checking there is no need for routine lab monitoring unless your doctor advises it. ilumya may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. tell your doctor if you have an infection or have symptoms, or if you plan to or have recently received a vaccine. this could be your chance to leave your psoriasis symptoms behind. ask your doctor for ilumya today, for a clearer tomorrow.
my name is j.w. and this is my hometown that i love dearly and these are wonderful people. i think you're only the second presidential candidate to come. jfk in 1960 came here and so thank you for coming. >> thank you. >> both massachusetts senators and presidential candidates, democrats who visited kermit. that was elizabeth warren in kermit, west virginia in a
county where more than 80% of the voters voted for donald trump. one trump voter said she done good after her appearance at the fire station in kermit. that voter did not say he was going to vote for elizabeth warren but at least one trump voter said she was thinking about voting for elizabeth warren after listening to her. senator elizabeth warren is not afraid of talking to trump voters. she just doesn't want to do it on fox. yesterday on twitter, she explained why she will not participate in a town hall on fox. fox news is a hate for profit racket that gives a megaphone to racists and conspirconspiraciest risking life and death consequences to provide cover for the corruption rotting our government and hollowing out our middle class. hate for profit works only if there is profit so fox news
balances a mix of bigotry, racism and out right lies with enough legit journalism to make the claim to advertisers that it's a reputable news outlet. it all about dragging in ad money, big ad money. a democratic town hall gives the fox news sales team a way to tell potential sponsors it's safe to buy ads on fox. no harm to their brand or reputation. here is one place we can fight back. i won't ask millions of democratic primary voters to tune into an outlet that profits from racism and hate in order to see our candidates especially when fox will make even more money adding our valuable audience to their ratings numbers. i'm running a campaign to reach all americans, i take questions from the press and voters
everywhere i go. fox news is welcome to come to my events just like any other outlet, but a fox news town hall adds money to the hate for profit machine to which i say hard pass. tommy christopher in an article on media i said that he has been unsure whether democrats should participate. elizabeth warren's tweets won him over. he wrote any democrat who agrees to appear at a fox news town hall after warren's stand is either saying that they don't believe fox news is an enterprise fueled by racism or bigotry or they think there is something more important than denying it aid and comfort. neither should be acceptable to democratic voters and senator kamala harris has also decided not to appear on fox for a town
hall. presidential candidate and california senator kamala harris will not appear on fox news for a moderated town hall according to two sources familiar with the matter. harris campaign has not informed fox news executives. she will appear here on a town hall i host tuesday may 28th in spartanburg south carolina in a county that voted 63% for donald trump. kamala harris will go to trump country to speak to voters there directly in our msnbc town hall. that is tonight's last word. "the 11th hour" with brian williams starts now. >> a 12-page refusal let there
says the white house won't turnover documents to house judiciary so the committee chair likens the president to a king and accuses the white house as if trump were a tyrant or dictator and our elements of our own government trying to get us elements of our own government trying to get us into a war with iran? they claim incoming threats from iran but members of congress have at least one british general don't seem to know what they are talking about and the alabama governor signs a bill effectively banning abortion and violates the law of the land and reproductive rights are now in something of a ground war across our country as "the 11th hour" gets underway on a wednesday night. well, good evening. once again in nbc headquarters here in new york. day 846 of this trump administration. the state of alabama has now