tv Deadline White House MSNBC July 10, 2019 1:00pm-2:00pm PDT
to make sense of. thank you to the three of you. that wraps up this busy hour for me. i will see you back here tomorrow at 1:00 p.m. eastern with stephanie ruhle and then again at 3:00 p.m. eastern. thank you for watching. "deadline: white house" with nicolle wallace starts right now. tnchs . hi, everyone, it's 4:00 in washington, d.c. where this afternoon at the urging of donald trump, the man who negotiated a lenient sentence for convicted sex offender jeffrey epstein sought to recap that deal in light of new charges of sex trafficking that have been brought against epstein by the southern district of another. acosta fighting for his reputation among human beings with a conscience, news accounts saying donald trump is giving zero consideration for firing acosta at in moment for letting an accused child sex predator off easy in miami. at a news conference a little over an hour ago at the department of labor, acosta claimed without the intervinentn
of his office, epstein would have walked free and suggested a different climate on victims of sexual assault in 2002 was to blame. >> do you make the same agreement today? >> so these questions are always very difficult because we now have 12 years of knowledge and hind sig hindsight and we live in a very different world. today's world treats victims very, very differently. today's world does not allow some of the victim shaming that could have taken place at trial 12 years ago. today's world understands that when interviewing victims when eliciting testimony, that testimony can sometimes be contradictory. that memories are difficult. so i don't think we can say take a case that is this old and fully know how it would play out today.
>> but it wasn't 1910. one of the most egregious aspects of the sweetheart deal negotiated by acosta for epstein was that it kept victims in the dark. asked today if he would apologize to epstein's victims, acosta said he would not and he did not. our colleague savannah guthrie bringing the plight and suffering of epstein's victims into focus on the "today" show this morning, in an interview with a new accuser who says jeffrey epstein raped her when she was 15. >> i was terrified, and i was telling him to stop, please stop. >> did he? >> no, he did not stop. he had no intention of stopping. and that's what he wanted, that's what he got. >> when you left there, you never went back? >> after that day, no, i never went back. i was terrified. because i didn't want that to happen again. >> and you left school. did you leave the school because it was in the same neighborhood?
>> yeah, it was so close. >> in your mind did you use the word rape? did you recognize it then as rape? >> no, no, i don't think i did. i just thought it was my fault, like i was obligated, like that was what you were supposed to do. i really did not know better. >> when did you stop blaming yourself? >> it was a long time really. >> did jeffrey epstein rape you? >> yeah, no, he raped me. forcefully raped me. knew exactly what he was doing. and i don't think cared. what hurts even more so is if i wasn't afraid to come forward sooner, then maybe he wouldn't have done it to other girls.
i feel really guilty. to this day i feel really guilty. >> tragically, the disturbing story shared by that brave young woman is just one of dozens. "the miami herald" reported this back in november. quote, the herald identified 80 women who say they were molested or otherwise sexually abused by epstein between 2001 and '06. about 60 of them were located. now they're scattered around the country and abroad. eight of them agreed to be interviewed on or off the record. four were willing to speak on video. the women are now mothers, wives, nurses, bartenders, realtors, hairdressers and teachers. one a hollywood actress. several have grappled with trauma, depression and addiction. some have served time in prison. a few did not survive. one young woman was found dead last year in a rundown motel in west palm beach. she overdosed on heroin and left behind a young son. the victims of jeffrey epstein and the trump cabinet official accused of betraying them in the face of epstein's high-powered legal defense team are where we
start today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. with us on set in washington, axios national political reporter jonathan swan, national political reporter for "the washington post," robert acosta is here, editor and chief of the bulwark, charlie sykes. we're also joined by former u.s. attorney joyce vance and "the new york times" white house correspondent annie karni. joyce vance, take me through what i understood alex acosta to be trying to say, which is the media didn't report this accurately, that somehow 2008 was an era these crimes were not, i don't know, prosecuted as forcefully as they are now? is that what he was trying to say and is that remotely true? chuck rosenberg, friend of this show and all of ours says not so. >> i agree with chuck pretty firmly. federal prosecutors obligation to protect child victims wasn't any different in 2007 and 2008 than it is today. i'm sorry if acosta felt like the case would have been difficult to prosecute. i know his office. it's a fine office.
they take on hard cases and get convictions every day. this case should have been no different. this is not a garden variety case. this is not a case where maybe you decide it's not important enough to prosecute. this is dozens of child victims of sex assaults. this case is the reason federal prosecutors exist, to prosecute this exact kind of case. and he frankly stared this case in the eye and blinked and walked away and let these victims down. >> joyce, he also seemed to put out some false binary choices that he and he seemed to make it sound like all u.s. attorneys face a false or i have been told false choice between either taking a lenient sentence or nothing. is it really all or nothing? why couldn't the fbi and federal investigators and prosecutors keep the case open? >> right. that's exactly right. there's no binary choice being made here. if you don't have enough evidence of the face of these sorts of serious credible
allegations, you continue to investigate. so when acosta in the press conference today says how happy he is there's newly discovered evidence that permits the southern district of new york to prosecute epstein, it's just appalling to hear that because that evidence was available, his investigators could have found it, he determined local police investigators, he had the fbi. he simply cut the case off prematurely. >> joyce, he's also making it sound like these are two different points in time. the southern district of new york gathered evidence for the exact same period of time for which labor secretary alex acosta agreed to basically one night a week in prison for jeffrey epstein, right? they investigated the same period of time. >> right. that's i think very close to right. there may be a little new allegation in the new york case but it's primarily an overlap. in other words, the southern district of new york has spoken
pretty loudly here. they say they think former u.s. attorney general acosta got it wrong, should have prosecuted the case as a federal matter and now they're cleaning it up many years later. and as the victim who spoke with savannah so eloquently said, the burden should never have been on the victims here. the burden was on the u.s. attorney and southern district of florida to bring these victims justice. >> annie karni, you had reporting about the long history of donald trump and jeffrey epstein and we will get to that later in the show but i want to get to something your colleagues reported yesterday, essentially jeff berman, the u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york, was rebuking the acosta plea agreement in his announcement yesterday. i wonder what the fallout is now 24 hours from that sort of event? >> well, i mean it was rebuked. and what we saw acosta doing
today was trying to mount a defense and save himself. i think that we saw a performance that in some sense he expressed an outline of his position. he presented it calmly. i don't know if that was what trump was looking for. this was an audience of one presentation here. he conducted the press conference at trump's request. trump basically said it's up to him to save himself, so this was for trump. and he took questions, he tried to get to all of the questions and answer them, and we'll see if trump was convinced by this performance. but he is certainly hanging on the ropes. trump publicly said he's standing with him but behind the scenes it's much more tenuous than his public proclamation of support for acosta. so we can have our fact checks of what he said, but trump is probably watching for the style
he presented, did he look strong? did he look like he could keep fighting? and we'll see. >> robert, you agree with that assessment? >> the president knows congress, house democrats want to call the secretary up to capitol hill to get answers, and it won't be an interview and it won't be a press conference. it will be hostile house democrats taking on him and his record as an attorney. this was his opportunity, as annie said, to set the record straight. i have a few sources around the president i was checking in with text message before this program. one of them texted the world? what they meant was what is the secretary talking about? there is the law and then there is the law. the world is context, what does that even mean? and that is something house democrats would happily peel away, the idea of the world because they live in the world of the law. >> it's a tragedy, and i don't doubt bob's assessment, but it's
a tragedy that only democrats are expected to question a lenient sentence for a convicted and admitted child predator. >> if this press conference was supposed to put an end to that to answer those questions, i think it failed. and whatever the president was hoping for from this press conference, he's going to wait to see what the reviews are, he's going to wait and see how people respond to it, and i don't think the reviews will be very good. the secretary did not apologize. he came off as quite tone deaf. there was a lot of revisionist history there. a lot of excuse making p the longer this goes on, the more trouble it creates for donald trump. we will be focused on alex acosta and how he mishandled this case but it also means we will be talking about this oligarchy of sleaze which involve people like jeffrey epstein and donald trump himself. i think the reviews will be decisive. frankly, i'm having a hard time imagining donald trump watching that presentation and thinking
that's my guy. >> i agree but for different reasons. i think what donald trump looks for defiance, looks for almost a reordering of the facts. he was neither -- what did he today is not going to satisfy democrats, who are not going to buy in 2008 you couldn't prosecute sex crimes, but neither will it satisfy the right wing nuts. >> president trump -- i was talking this morning to somebody who's very close to him who has been talking to him about this, and they were very, very confident, that was the quote i used, they said zero chance -- >> zero chance. >> trump will fry him over this, zero. it was quite interesting because i spoke a few hours later to someone who has been with the president even in the intervening periods, been in touch with him. they said, you know, i wouldn't use the word zero, you know. maybe like put an asterisks on that one. i don't know about zero. i wouldn't dispute that. doesn't look like it at the moment. but president trump made clear he wanted to see -- annie's
reporting is exactly right. maggie was first to report this, that trump himself urged and in fact demanded that alex acosta do that press conference. the thing about donald trump is people are okay until they're not. and he's always looking up at the television, and when a story becomes a problem, this was the michael flynn situation. he loved michael flynn. but day after day of seeing negative segment on michael flynn, he's going to at some point -- and the real question is, is there enough of a firm footing underneath him when that moment happens, if it does? as we reported and others reported, alex acosta is not the favorite son inside the trump administration. people like mick mulvaney, i thought it was very amusing when alex acosta said, mick mulvaney called me and said we've got a great relationship. i mean, give me a break. i mean, mick mulvaney has been very dissatisfied with the slow
speed of deregulation going on at labor, conservative movement as a whole in terms of many conservative leaders on the outside are very unhappy with him. so he doesn't have a lot of allies and friends inside this administration. it's actually the president who's probably got the best relationship. trump quite like it's, but that could change. >> i want to get the best reporters on the beat in two bright minds in charlie and juice joyce and i want to pin you guys down on something. donald trump watched blasey testify and he was reported by one or all of you to have gone shaky in that intervening period or to have found christine compelling. does acosta, annie, rise to the kavanaugh performance, which in that instance tilted to trump?
>> that's exactly the example i was going to bring up and that is what was in the back of my head as i watched him take the podium today. trump was shaky on kavanaugh. this was another example of you go out there and you defend yourself and we will see how you survive. it's when kavanaugh became angry, started fighting back, that i heard some people in the white house saying he's loving it. this is what he wants to see. this is the demeanor he was hoping for. and completely loved kavanaugh's performance when he became angry and shouting and belligerent. we didn't see that kind of angry performance from acosta. he was measured. he was soft spoken. he laid out an argument. his voice didn't tremble and he seemed confident, but it wasn't the same kind of how dare you challenge me pose kavanaugh
took. so it's not the same style that appealed to trump in the past. >> i guess i only bring this up, i'm not advocating for rage, i am just saying i accept your reporting this is for an audience of one. you shake your head. do you disagree? >> well, i don't think trump was as shaky on kavanaugh as suggested. he was inclined to think the whole thing was a hoax, that was the word he kept using. in fact when trump talks about the kavanaugh situation privately, i'm told he recounts the rally he did -- >> he mocked her. >> he sees that as the saving moment and actually takes credit for it himself. and the except to which president trump was shaky on kavanaugh is really he didn't approve of the fact he was a drinker. that was something he said the sloppiness of the crying and things like that. but i don't think at any point he was that close. >> the counteroffense, it's also after "access hollywood" when he
thinks he turned it around. obviously he did turn it around at the debate when he went back at the clintons. he likes to see people on the offense, not on the defense. if you apply the kavanaugh template to this press conference, no, it would have fallen short. >> secretary acosta is a federal official. there's an ongoing investigation by the federal government. you can't have a federal official, even if he wants to on a personal level, rage against these kind of -- >> i agree with you 100%. i accept what you're all reporting this is a performance ordered up by the president and delivered for an audience of one. we broadcast it because it's news but this was for and by donald trump. i guess my question for you is does he -- he seems to be someone who cares about his reputation. he seems to be kind of the hand that's not family, not son-in-law but someone in his mind alex acosta had a reputation, george w. bush i believe appointed him to that post, just turning to the southern district of california, someone he thinks enjoyed respect from the conservative
legal community. i don't think he wants his career ended by having cover for a president who was credibly accused by sexual assault of 19 women. is that all he's got, is that good news for acosta? >> and his friends also say he doesn't have the capacity to do anything other than what he did today. he's a low-key lawyer. this is not somebody on the campaign. this is not a friend of president trump. this is a lawyer who made decisions over a decade ago that continued to haunt him in his career and they will be part of his legacy. but in terms of responding to president trump, this is who he is. >> joyce, we're covering the world as it exists because everyone here covers donald trump. but the world as it should be, we should be covering a president or white house or secretary of labor who once served as a prosecutor who's saving all of their condemnation and fire for the monster in this story, and that's jeffrey epstein. is it stunning to you as a former federal prosecutor no one is talking about donald trump being repulsed by epstein's alleged conduct? >> you know, it is so hard i think to avoid the comparison between epstein and trump.
of course, one is under indictment. the other is not. but they are sim ilar and credible allegations of this conduct. and epstein becomes a marcor for trump here. and trump's inability to fire acosta in the face of the way he conducted this investigation is something that i think looked very personal to trump. it's impossible to separate the two. >> go ahead. >> i think we should be clear one of them is an industrial scale pedophile and sex trafficker, just a distinction. but with acosta, the thing that really a lot of people will be horrified about today is sort of like the world has changed almost as if it was like trying to align this with the me too movement. this was sex trafficking and pedophilia at an industrial scale. i just feel like this is sort of being glossed over. the next step for this reporting, "the miami herald" did god's work here bringing this back, because there was a
mischarge of justice under acosta, and the next step for reporters is to carefully and methodically and meticulously unmask every last person who covered for him, who enabled epstein, who allowed this to happen, who knew about it and there should be a lot of people around this country right now in the elite circles who are very scared right now. >> let's start right there. what julie brown does report on and something acosta was asked about is one of epstein's lawyer, my interest of disclosure, my former colleague in the bush white house, he's the individual acosta described meeting with at a hotel 70 miles from the u.s. attorney's office. he played it off as though he had a speech there. he may or may not have. if we're going back to julie brown's heroic reporting and prosecutors in new york cited julie brown's reporting. that's not us. other people in the media landscape holding her up. federal prosecutors have now held her up. why should acosta stand in that room and get any credit, even from trump, for covering for
someone who, as you said, ran an industrial pedophilia ring. >> of course, he shouldn't. >> what does the white house have to say today? >> they've been pretty quiet on this because, of course, there's a complication there because donald trump has a long history of being friends with jeffrey epstein is on the record saying he's a terrific guy in the interview. bill clinton, these flights, i thought it was pretty curious bill clinton used the excuse of his staff being around as if that ever been a barrier. this story has a long way to go. and it's now the concentric circles around epstein that are going to be investigated. >> annie karni has something. go ahead. >> let me guess that would be a reason why this white house would want to distance itself from this story as quickly and decisively as possible. does the white house want to have this be an ongoing story about their administration because as the blast radius of this story expands, donald trump is there, and this will bring
back some of the worst moments of his campaign. it will track with a lot of the concerns about donald trump. as you point out, the me too movement was huge. when you're talking about industrial grade pedophilia, there's not going to be the kind of tribal divide over this. >> are you sure? >> well, we haven't seen it so far. so the question is -- >> robert acosta just said democrats are expected to grill him on capitol hill. >> i will give credit, penny nantz, no one's liberal, conservative movement leader, was one of the first to call for alex acosta's resignation back in december. she called six, seven months before the senate minority leader chuck schumer. yes, it's true republicans are not out calling for resignation but i don't think there's the same tribal divide. >> i want what you have in your cups. hope springs eternal. don't go anywhere. after the break, new reporting
in "the new york times" about the ties of donald trump and accused human trafficker jeffrey epstein. reports from "the times" at a party where the only invited guests were two dozen women, epstein and donald j. trump. we will bring that to you and the reporter who wrote it. and also an nbc news exclusive, migrant kids in an overcrowded border station alleged sexual result in realation from u.s. agents. holding up for a hero, we need one, enter u.s. soccer star megan rapinoe. she's chicken soul for your soul. you won't want to miss it. coming up. and last longer with fewer pills. so why am i still thinking about this? i'll take aleve. aleve. proven better on pain.
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as we've been discussing, "the new york times" out today with new reporting on the ties between donald trump and jeffrey epstein. quote, through a mutt mutual appreciation of wealth and women and years of occupying palm beach and "page six" the lives intersected for decades until the connection turned from a status symbol into a liability. mr. trump made sure to publicize the fact he barred his one-time friend from his club. the falling out was reportedly over as what "the times" describes as, quote, a failed business arrangement. before that falling out, a party was planned in which women were flown in and the only other guests were epstein and trump. from "the times" report, quote, it was supposed to be an exclusive faert at mar-a-lago. donald trump's lodge in mar-a-lago, florida. but known from the women, only
guests for mr. epstein and trump. the year was 1992, and the event a calendar girl competition. something a american businessman who ran american dream enterprise organized at mr. trump's request. he said, quote, i arranged to have contestants fly in, he recalled on monday. at the very first party i said who's coming tonight? i have 28 girls coming. it was him and epstein. everyone's back. annie, it's your reporting. take us through it. >> we tried to take a look back at what really was the connection between jeffrey epstein and donald trump, who he famously praised to "new york magazine" in 2002 as a great guy and now saying i have not talked to him in 15 years. it's true -- trump is probably telling the truth he had not had contact with him in over a decade because they had this serious falling out and epstein was having problems with the police and trump didn't want to have anything to do with him.
but i interviewed george hournay on wednesday who had gone into a business agreementment with trump to host the casinos and calendar girl competitions and the point of the business was to drive people to the casinos, and gamblers would vote on the girls and it was a way to help trump make more money at his casinos. and trump requested they throw the party at mar-a-lago. so george knew partners with trump, rounded up girls, 28 to fly down to mar-a-lago and george said he was shocked to find out the only other guest at this alleged vip party would be epstein. he also said epstein was someone he had known over the years from these events he threw and knew he had problems with younger women and said he warned donald trump about that at the night and at the time saying i can't have him going after younger women. he's a problem. i had to bar him from events and trump just waved it away saying
i'm not going to have a scandal. don't worry about it. so trump was aware of epstein, had seen it, had been to his palm beach mansion, and wasn't really bothered by it until it became a problem, and he publicly made sure to very publicly cut ties with him and saying he banned him from all of his clubs. he was friends with him until it was no longer useful to be friends with him, and then they had this falling out. >> i've read charlie sykes and annie's reporting with my jaw on the floor. i'm still gobsmacked by the culture, and i don't say this in the vain of proudishness but the culture of objectifying women. because it is a through line through the "access hollywood" taken, through calling miss america contestants miss piggy, to calling hillary clinton and kamala harris nasty women. it is an indisputable fact women are objectified in donald
trump's world. >> and we knew all of that before the election. this was a pattern that was well known. the fact he would actually walk in on the contest aeptss of miss teen america, miss teen u.s.a. this is who donald trump is. this is who he embraces. but this is a new element. it links to something that you can't just say boys will be boys. this isn't locker room talk. this is hanging around with one of the most notorious pedophiles and also this intersection of the arrogance, the wealth, the indulgence in whatever you want to describe it as, that i think is going to be problematic for donald trump. look, i understand nothing actually matters. but this is an association that he really cannot afford. but there is that sort of bonding bro-ness between him and jeffrey epstein where i wonder whether people will know everything you just described and think it's even sleazier than we thought. >> and the politics will reveal
themselves in due time but the instinct as charlie is describing are no knowns. the instincts are to defend the accused man. the instincts are to appreciate and say out loud whatever he thinks and feels about a woman's appearance. the instincts have been vetted out and proven and reported out by all three of your news organizations time and time again, whether it's rob porter and alleged physical abuse against his two wives. whether it's a man who likes beautiful women as much as he does. he said that, your colleague reported that in a story you guys had yesterday. and he also reported donald trump's entry in jeffrey epstein's address book had 12 entries for him. so it was probably a period where they were in very close contact. >> we talk about the president's instincts, we should probably focus on the president's knowledge, even as a private citizen, what was the relationship during the early
1990s, mid-1990s, was he ever beware of mr. epstein's behavior. people say character doesn't matter anymore. character does matter. we need to report more what did the president knew as a private businessman? he said epstein was a fixture in palm beach culture, palm beach social circles. everybody knows that he had a relationship. what was the business falling out? what did that entail? he's mentioned it. we deserve to have more answers. it's going to take more reporting on this story. hopefully the president is willing to clarify some of these issues. >> are you trying to get the answer to those questions right now? >> every reporter wants to learn more. the president engaged on the topic so it's not an unusual request for him to make to answer more of these questions. >> what do you think that picture might -- what could come into focus? >> i would be surprised if he deviates at all from what he said so far, which is he set the narrative and what donald trump does is set the narrative and
repeats, repeats, repeats, repeats. so i would be very surprised if we do from him learn anything more. it's going to be reporting like annie and maggie that will shed light on this relationship. >> joyce, can you jump in on this conversation we're having? i strike them as donald trump's instincts. robert costa appropriately corrected that to what did he know and when did he know it. can you speak from the perspective of somebody who investigated criminals like epstein and associates, what are you looking for in the coming days and weeks on this story? >> this sort of ongoing investigation is incredibly important as you pointed out. there's a through line to the president's own conduct. i wish i was optimistic that reporting that lended credibility to the notion that the president was fully aware of epstein's conduct would matter but so much of this was baked in. the president was on videotape talking about a graphic sexual assault prior to the election. there's been very little coverage of recent -- more
recent allegations of a rape that took place in a new york department store. so it's hard to see how this impacts the president personally but there is an interesting legal hook, nicolle, which is the stat sheet epstein was indicted under is a statute that has an internal obstruction of justice position. and why that matters is normally the government only has five years to look back and prosecute people for obstruction of justice. but here there's no statute of limitations and that means that if there was any effort by any of these folks around epstein to cover up at the original time or ongoing, there could be a wide-open federal investigation that might even be why this sits with the public corruption unit in the southern district of new york rather than in the sex crimes unit. >> did you want to jump in? >> also we had to comment on the weird time warp we have fallen in, we're now back to the story that involves donald trump and bill clinton. and take away the optimism
before the tribalism, what you're going to get from the pro-trump media is why are we not talking about bill clinton, why are we talking about donald trump? here we are sort of entrapped in this twilight zone where it's going to be the character of bill clinton and donald trump. but i think it's really important, think about the way some of those other sex scandals played out, that bill clinton lied about consensual sex. or donald trump's behavior was just locker room talk. i want to keep coming back to the point jonathan made, you're dealing with industrial strength pedophilia. this cannot be just brushed off. it is not trivial. there's no possible case. there will be a lot what aboutism that nobody's going to brush it off. >> and underscoring bob's point we will ultimately find out what trump knew and when he knew it. this was a hard story to talk about. i couldn't do it without friends like bob costa, annie karni and joyce vance. thank you for spending so much of this hour with us. after the break, nbc news exclusive reporting on allegations of abuse at the
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1. new and exclusive nbc news reporting exposes allegations of misconduct by border patrol officials at a detention facility this time in yuma, arizona, bringing what we know about the horrific conditions migrant children are facing to a new low. allegations of retaliation and sexual assault were among the dozens of accounts detailed in significant incident reports that nbc news obtained. these reports are ones prepared by government case managers between april and june of this year, which summarize interviews with migrant children after they left that yuma facility. an attorney for an organization that provides legal services to the children said she was horrified by these allegations but unfortunately not surprised. she went on to say, quote, our clients tell us they have seen cdp acts kick other children
awake, that children do not know whether it's day or night because lights are left on all of the time, and they've had food thrown at them like they're wild animals. joining the conversation, former white house communications director for president obama, jen pal mary, and my colleague nbc news correspondent julia ainsley, who broke this story with our colleague jacob soboroff. we're running out of words for horrific, but take me through what you and jacob report. >> it is horrific. what we have here are dozens of accounts of these interviews with government agents who were then to pass that along to the department of homeland security. keep in mind we're just now finding out about this but the government has known about this for some time, about these reports. a lot of this we see some of the same patterns in texas, unsanitary conditions, no place to sleep, children sleeping outside on concrete floors. but there were two incidents that really stood out. one was retaliation. a 15-year-old boy reported there was a cell of boys who protested
because water and food did not taste right and when they brought that up in retaliation they had them leave their cell and took away their soft mats, the only thing separating themselves and the floor sleeping overnight. so that was a retaliation. as a result that little boy didn't bring up other issues he. for example, he needed a clean pair of underwear and he didn't get that for ten days. then the most horrific is a sexual assault allegation. 16-year-old -- she was 15 at the time, honduran girl, is going through what has been a routine pat-down, that's what it was supposed to be. the agent told her to lift her shirt, he put his hands under home run bra and then told her to pull down her pants. when he hesitated, he pulled them down as well as her underwear and groped her in front of many witnesses and other agents who didn't step in. other immigrants who were probably powerless. he laughed and continued to speak in english. she describes him very clearly. the question is why wasn't this man held accountable and fired
if what happened in this account did happen? what we know so far is the department of homeland security inspector general is looking into that one allegation and the other allegation jacob and i mentioned in our report they're now looking into as well. i think what this gets to is the whole talking point from the administration has been it's overcrowding. overcrowding doesn't cause retaliation. it doesn't cause assault. there seems to be a systemic issue and these issues were flagged to the very top. why are we just now hearing about them? >> why? >> that's a great question. they again have been focused on more money. that's what we need. >> more money for what? >> more money for space. it's just an issue of overcrowding. >> people send supplies and they send them back. here's a question for you, i don't mean to put you on the spot, does the trump administration want to take better care of these children? >> from what i understand from interviews with officials at customs and border protection, those on the ground, most of them, really do want to take better care of these children. some are going into early
retirement. they're looking at other agencies. they can't bear the heartbreak of having to deal with these children in these conditions every day and facility that's were not meant for children. but then you read these stories and there's something about the bee hafber th behavior that goes unpunished that permeates the institution. we've seen this in other institutions. the question is why isn't there more about it being done at the top? now we see a enormous reaction from congress and hope to see officials go before congress in the coming weeks and have to answer these very questions. >> i'm not sorry for saying this, but there's a direct line between mexico rapist and murders and border agent sexually assaulting a young girl. >> yes, the border agent model in the white house is someone you believe the people coming across from mexico are rapist and criminals so he's setting that tone.
and all of this is really devastating. you have to live it every day. you have to report on it every day. what just reported on the last to segments was really distressing to hear. but the thread that comes through with both of these story lines with epstein and this young woman who had the courage to say what happened to her -- >> and it took time, as it often does. >> in the time of trump in what i think he's drawn out in women is they're holding men accountable for actions in ways they did not before. and it's a really difficult time to live through. but i do see that as progress and, you know, to be fair, it's not just women that are holding men accountable, men are not tolerating behavior as they have in the past. i do think all of this is reaction to trump being in the white house. i think women have said like if that guy can be the president of the united states, then it's on me now i'm going to hold people
to account. >> jonathan, any reporting on ivanka trump, whose stated mission in the white house is women and girls. this is a girl allegedly sexually assaulted by the employees of the federal government. melania went to the border in a confusing jacket but seemed to care about the plight of the children that were there. any reporting on how melania and ivanka trump feel about what's happening at the boarder? >> i don't have any reporting about how they're responding currently to this situation. i do recall being told by people who were in the room way back during the family separation crisis, ivanka started to attend, they were doing these where it was really crisis point. there were daily at one point meetings and she was attending them saying what are we doing about it? but i have no knowledge of what they're saying or doing behind the scenes right now. >> any sense there's cross pressure? her presence is on the rise and these crises that
disproportionately affect women and children are on the rise? >> no. i don't think you can sort of point to many -- much evidence of ivanka trump having a moderating effect when it comes to immigration. the evidence is not there, because it's one of the issues that donald trump feels to his core. immigration and trade, he doesn't shake off on those two issues. >> it's amazing though because ivanka was able to influence at least in her telling the syria policy for the united states government, department of defense and whatnot ultimately responsive to concerns ivanka raised with her father about the dead syrian children but not the sexually assaulted migrant children. >> this is a president who responds to pictures and images. and they have started to come out. >> there will be pictures. there will be videos. propublica has audio of the children wailing. we will seefrg happening at the border eventually. >> i was struck by ken on msnbc
earlier he took a mild approach to these revelations but then he tried to link it to congress's failure to appropriate more money. and as julia points out, there's legitimate concern about funding for overcrowding but then you get conduct like this, which has nothing to do with overcrowding. this is just cruelty. and you have to go back to the fact that the cruelty was really the point of much of these policies, right? going back to when jeff sessions was describing the policy of family separation. it was intended to be a deterrent. so this cruelty, this is insensitivity i think has been baked into the culture unfortunately. >> cruelty, a tragedy. and ultimately will be all of our legacy. julia, congrats on another devastating but amazing scoop. thank you for being with us. after the break, a real-life superhero, an icon in her own time standing up for equal pay, speaking to our better angels and calling out donald trump. megan rapinoe and u.s. women's
everyone. we have to be better. we have to love more, hate less. we got to listen more and talk less. we got to know that this is everybody's responsibility, every single person here, every single person who's not here, every single person who doesn't want to be here, every single person who agrees and doesn't agreement it's our responsibility to make this world a better place. >> a powerful call to action today at the world cup victory parade in new york courtesy of the legend herself, megan rapinoe. she's been the team's unquestioned leader. no one scored more goals that ed in the tournament. but perhaps her most enduring legacy will be the way she stood up for social change when the light shined the brightest. she's a huge advocate for equal
pay, something she spoke with her colleague rachel maddow last night. >> i think everyone realizes it's time for the next step. it's time to work together to get this to a better place, be collaborative. the conversation is not about equal pay anymore. it's everybody. it's like if you're not down with equal pay at this point or equality or whatever it is, you're so far out of reality and the conversation that we can't even go there. i think it's time to move to the next phase. i think everybody wants that. nobody wants this contentious fight all of the time. >> as for her feud with donald trump, rapinoe had a message for him last night, too. >> i think that i would say that your message is excluding people. you're excluding me, you're excluding people that look like me. you're excluding people of color. you're excluding, you know, americans that maybe support you. and i think that we have a responsibility each and every one of us, you have an
incredible responsibility as, you know, the chief of this country to take care of every single person. and you need to do better for everyone. >> jen. >> there's so much here, right? there is these amazing athletes who understood that, you know, i read i think it was alex morgan a few weeks ago said i watched the girls in 1999 and i watched the u.s. women's soccer team win then. and remember brandy took her shirt off, and that was like the big controversy. but she weathered it and she, like -- she had a sports bra. and they were like i saw what it can look like, and i always wanted to be her. i always granted a career in professional soccer. that's progress in and of itself. but i didn't understand at the time that it was going to come with these responsibilities because we had the opportunity to not just make progress for women in sports but to have that sort of spread to other parts of
society. and, you know, just as the 1999 team inspired these women, they are inspiring millions and millions of girls and boys and women and making the argument about equality and proving their worth. i tweet a lot about them, and i remember somebody said, well, you know, if the problem for the women athletes is they don't draw in as big of crowds and so the market forces that say they don't make as much money, their team doesn't make as much money as men's teams. i'm, like, yes, i'm aware that we built the market that way. i'm aware that we don't value women's efforts as much as men. but that's changing and they are showing us they are fun to watch in addition to just being great athletes. >> also, she's just a born leader. you cover washington, you've been around -- i mean, there are just people that have it. and she just has it. >> i was watching that rally. you could see her with a
political future. >> you can see her at the democratic convention. >> speaker. >> it wouldn't surprise me actually. >> me neither. she doesn't have that flinchy thing when asked if she will get involved in political causes. you go to washington, i saw her on one of the shows last night, absolutely, i'll go to washington. >> maga world does not want to pick a fight with this woman. you shouldn't be talking about not going to the white house before you win it all. well, she put that pressure on herself and then she delivers. she just stands there and she strokes the ball in. that's something -- i mean, she's a remarkable woman. she's probably the coolest woman in america right now. >> megan rapinoe, you make us believe. god bless you and all your teammates, congratulations. we are going to sneak in our last break. and i didn't have to call your wife to meet you at the doctor. because you didn't have another dvt. not today. we discussed how having one blood clot puts you at risk of having another,... ...so we chose xarelto®, to help keep you protected.
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a special shoutout today on a tough day news to my two wingmen for the hour. also to my friend jennifer palmieri but most of all to you for watching. that does it for us with my friend chuck todd starts now. ♪ if it's wednesday, labor secretary alex acosta resisting calls for his resignation defends his handling of the jeffrey epstein case. plus, exclusive new nbc news reporting showing the horrific conditions in border detention is much more widespread and a lot more disturbing. and pelosi versus progressives? the behind closed doors democratic divisions are