tv Morning Joe MSNBC July 15, 2019 3:00am-6:00am PDT
you have the conservative media echo chamber attacking alexandria ocasio-cortez day in and day out. mike allen, our thanks to you. we'll be reading axios a.m. in a little while. you too can sign up for the newsletter. >> all right, that does it for us. i'm yasmin vossoughian with geoff bennett. "morning joe" starts right now. this judge is giving us unfair rulings and i say why? i'm building a wall, okay? it's a wall between mexico, not another country. and he's -- >> he's not from mexico. he's from indiana. >> in my opinion, he's mexican heritage and he's proud of it. >> if you're saying he can't do his job because of his race, is that not the definition of racism? >> i don't think so at all. >> is that a racist statement? >> i couldn't disagree more. >> is it a racist statement? >> i couldn't disagree more with what he had to say. >> the party of lincoln intends to circle the wagons around a
racist. >> i think the party of lincoln wants to win the white house. >> and here we are again. president trump over the weekend told four women of color all u.s. citizens, all duly elected members of congress to go back to the countries they came from. a racist putdown, but so far essentially silence from the republican party. a spokesman for senate leader mitch mcconnell declined to comment yesterday. no comment, joe. how is that possible? >> how is it possible that the president of the united states makes a racist comment. proves once again that he is a racist. and there's no criticism whatsoever from the republican party. i mean, you had paul ryan calling donald trump a racist for the judge curual comments and then two or three days later of course he endorses donald trump. this is -- again, it's very important to remember that this
is donald trump trying to distract. this is donald trump trying to distract from the fact that he was humiliated in the census -- in the census issue. he had to back down there. there weren't many i.c.e. raids over the weekend so obviously that didn't go off as planned. he must have gotten the word that was the case. he obviously read maureen dowd criticizing the four women and so he decided to do what donald trump does. he wants to outrage people and in this case, he wants to further divide the democratic party. >> distract and divide. >> distract and divide. this is a short term gain for the president. it's not going to help him expand his base. it's not going to help him get to 50%. there is a reason he's the only president in american history since the advent of polling to never get to 50%. and this is exactly why. >> this is where we begin this morning. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, july 15th.
with joe and me we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle. white house reporter for the associated press, jonathan lemire. professor at princeton, eddie gaud jr. former u.s. senator, claire mccaskill. and an msnbc contributor. we'll get to the racist trope in a moment and another poll shows that president trump has a lot of ground to gain in order to win re-election. and how poorly he's doing compared to president obama at this point in the 2012 cycle. the nbc news/"wall street journal" poll found the approval rating of 45%. his disapproval is 52%. comparatively in july of 2011, president obama had a 47%
approval rating with a lower 48% disapproval. but in the general election match-ups, trump loses to joe biden by nine points. bernie sanders bests trump by seven points, 50-43. and senator elizabeth warren i thought he wanted to run against her tops trump by five points, 48% to 43%. while senator kamala harris has a one point edge over the president. in the july 2011 nbc news/"wall street journal" poll president obama was leading republican mitt romney by seven points, 48% to 41%, so joe, the president not faring well against candidates he was laughing at at one point. >> well, he was laughing a at. that he's still attacking. again, let's put up the numbers again and what it shows is donald trump getting beaten badly at this point by joe biden. nine points.
by the way, joe biden's beating trump badly after a poor debate performance. we talk about in the past, joe biden has run ineffective campaigns, had bad performances that ended his presidential run. i can't help but think that the age of trump allows joe biden to make mistakes and be unscathed because whatever biden or any other democrat does it pales in comparison not only to the racism but to the poor performances of donald trump. about the same time, mike barnicle, that joe biden was having a terrible debate performance, you know, a day or two later donald trump went on fox news rambled and bumbled his way around suggesting that littering was created two years ago in big cities. >> right. >> so he's set the bar so low i'm not so sure that there's
much a democrat can do not to be hurt. again, you look at these numbers. biden up by nine. bernie up by seven. elizabeth up by five. these are all democrats trump has mocked endlessly and even with the power of the presidency he still trails them and trails biden very badly. >> yeah, joe, what he's done effectively and not for the first time he is the only story in this country. donald j. trump. i mean, this was a truly deeply depressing weekend based upon that tweet that he put out. basically, the president of the united states saying to four women of color, go back where you belong. i mean, who hasn't heard that in the past and in this country? >> well, we'll talk about that for a second, mike, but tell me -- i mean, that's a great example though. that's going to be our next story. but that's a great example.
once again, donald trump dividing up his 42, 43% on one side and on the other side, my gosh, if you're a person of color, if you're in wisconsin, if you're in michigan, if you're in pennsylvania, if you're in florida, you stayed home in record numbers when hillary clinton ran for president. are you going to stay at home to not vote against donald trump? >> well, you would hope not, but you know who knows? i mean, what he's done is though he continually focuses on the third of the population of this country. his base. he has no interest in expanding his base. so whatever joe biden, bernie sanders, elizabeth warren or whatever they say or do or whatever they do in the polls, up, down, whatever, at this stage it's meaningless because everything is focused on trump and his actual -- his mistakes in terms of understanding the country and sort of campaigning as president of the united states. rather than president of one-third of the country. >> yeah. you know, claire, it doesn't make any sense to me.
he'll win alabama and win tennessee and win missouri, but you know i wonder if trump is not making the same mistake every politician makes, every general makes. they fight the last war. he ain't going to have james comey dropping a letter ten days before hand on joe biden. he is not going to have the mistakes made by the next campaign that hillary clinton's team made on the last campaign. i'm even guessing that joe biden or whatever democratic nominee gets the nomination, they'll probably do polling in 2020 unlike hillary clinton's team. and i think, you know, the guy's fighting the campaign that's why this base strategy for winning states republicans hardly ever win is so surprising to me. >> it's interesting because if you look at what he's done as president, he has stayed so focused on the people in those rallies. he loves the rallies. he loves the fact that he can pack people in to these buildings and that they can say
lock her up and all of the inappropriate things he said that they roar to. he is so hooked on that that when he is making policy and when he is typing with his thumbs in his bath robe, he is thinking of them instead of those voters in suburban america that are totally offended by the way he conducts himself in office. he is making no attempt whatsoever to be president of the united states and it is fascinating to me that even in the face of this polling that shows that he is historically deeply unpopular as a sitting president and that somebody who identifies the word socialist in their title is beating him by what, six or seven points. i mean, this is nuts. this is nuts. it's really interesting to me that there is not more of a fire drill going on, but it is who he is. and let's just hope now we stay
united and stay focused on the prize here because if our party doesn't stay focused on the prize, we could make mistakes and could end up throwing this presidency in his lap for what would be a disastrous second term. >> so jonathan lemire, you have been covering the president for quite some time. is claire right? is it all about the rallies? would he rather have cheering at the rallies and move beyond the 42, 43% and is that why he keeps making the inflammatory remarks, these racist remarks that again get bigots stirred up at his rallies, but keeps him below the threshold he needs to get to to win in 2020. >> the president views it this way, that in 2015, 2016 during that campaign, he focused on what is now become his base, a -- the certain people who identify with his anger, with his grievances, with his hard-line policy on immigration.
yes, sometimes the -- >> by the way, jonathan, can i correct you? it's not his anger -- i mean, he's a poser. this is all posing. i mean, i just wanted to throw that in. you don't have to agree with me, but his alleged anger -- he's playing this populist role and playing his supporters as suckers. but go ahead, i'm sorry to interrupt. >> joe, it's your show. what they see it as anger how they interpret it. that was a pretty narrow view of the electorate the last time around and he won anyway. his sense and the people around him are, we're stay with that. there's been no effort to grow his base. he does love the rallies. he tells people all the time that's his favorite thing as a president, to go to the hall, whether it's in north carolina, georgia or wisconsin or wherever it may be and get up there and perform and he feels the energy. it's up enthusiasm. he believes he has people who come to the rallies who aren't being picked up in the polls and he was somewhat right the last
time around and he thinks he can do that again this time. his political strategists think they want him to tone down some of the controversies. they want him to focus on the economy which remains his best argument. they want him to go to the handful of battle ground states that are going to decide his election. he spent friday in wisconsin and he stayed on message. but he seems incapable of staying on message. think of the controversies he's had to deal with. the resignation of secretary acosta, in the wake of the jeffrey epstein scandal on friday. his defeat with the census decision also on friday. and of course, most damning the racist tweet from yesterday which was meant to further divide among democrats, one he had somewhat effectively played to a few days earlier between speaker pelosi and alexandria ocasio-cortez and her cohorts except of course this time he went too far. and he's said given the -- he's
giving a gift to democrats who will reunite in their condemnation of what he said. >> so mika, again, we talked about the signal, the noise. i know we need to talk about this, because this is just pure -- >> we can cover it all. including jeffrey epstein. >> we can talk about that. but let's also again before we talk about these tweets, let's talk about why he did it. well, he -- >> d-squared. >> he told his people -- he told his people that he was going to fight to get his question on the census. and the supreme court said no. then he told his people he was going to hold the press conference. and he was going to actually put it on there and to defy the supreme court. then he weakly and meekly backed down. as he might say, like a little baby. he backed down. that was one thing he did. also, he had to fire acosta. why? because donald trump knows that as long as acosta's there, people are going to say that man called jeffrey epstein a
terrific guy. that man invited 25, 26 calendar girls to mar-a-lago for a vip reception but it was that man and jeffrey epstein alone at that mar-a-lago quote party were those two old men had 26 young calendar girls swirling around them. he doesn't want us to talk about that. he wants our hair to be on fire about the census. what else does he not want us to talk about? you know, jonathan mentioned it. i mean, this has been a very rough weekend for him. these i.c.e. raids that were supposed to materialize they never materialized. we're getting reports that the numbers were far below even what barack obama did. so this has been a disastrous political weekend for donald trump where he's looked weak and meek and in donald trump's words like a little baby.
so what does he do? he says i'm going to fire off some tweets on sunday and the press is going to follow them around and that's all they're going to talk about them. we'll talk about them -- >> we will. i have a point to make, the point you made, you talk about that man and the party he had with epstein and that man, let me just tell you there's also the math that america is doing when he says donald trump hiring someone who a lot of people had seen as completely inappropriate as the labor secretary, interesting. because you just wonder what kind of favor he was doing for alex acosta. like what kind of connection did they have that he thought he needed to hire him as the labor secretary and as you watch on friday, he and alex acosta walking out on to the white house lawn around the press and saying this was his idea for him to quit. very nervous around alex acosta. i don't understand the connection there. which is why we'll cover all of these stories and we'll continue
to. >> well, if you go out to 30,000 feet he hired as a guy -- secretary of labor, he hired a guy who lied to young girls who had been raped. >> is very nervous next to him. >> and lied about young girls who had been raped, about -- that he would stay in touch with them, but he made a plea deal that made justice impossible for them to get. >> what's going on there? >> and standing next to a man who was running buddies with jeffrey epstein for quite some time. so yes, i suspect donald trump has a reason to be nervous. has a reason to send out incendiary tweets on sunday morning so we're not talking about what happened friday afternoon. >> exactly. in the category of distracting, deflecting and dividing in a series of tweets yesterday president trump said that a group of congress women critical
of his policies should go back to the countries they originally came from. so interesting to see progressive congresswomen who originally from countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe now loudly and viciously telling the people of the united states the greatest and most powerful nation on earth how our government is to be run. why don't they go back and fix the crime infested places from which they came? then come back and show us how it is done. need -- these places need your help badly. you can't leave fast enough. i'm sure that nancy pelosi would be very happy to quickly work out free travel arrangements. although he didn't mention anyone by name, the four apparent targets of the president's tweets were congresswoman ocasio-cortez of new york who was born in the bronx to the parents of puerto rican descent.
>> americans. >> the president wouldn't know that. congresswoman rashida tlaib of michigan who was born in detroit to palestinian immigrants. congresswoman presley who was born in cincinnati. >> cincinnati, that's almost canada. i mean, really. >> right. congresswoman ilhan omar of minnesota who was born in somalia, but moved to the united states when she was 12 and is a naturalized u.s. citizen. what an incredible story, the american dream. house speaker nancy pelosi came out in defense of those congresswomen tweeting yesterday when president trump tells four american congresswomen to go back to their countries, he re-affirms his plan to make america great again has always been about making america white again. our diversity is our strength and our unity is our power. she went on to say, i reject president trump's xenophobic comments meant to divide our nation, rather than attack members of congress he should work with us and work for humane
immigration policy that reflects american values, stop the raids. families belong together. the president's tweets were also condemned by other congressional democrats including several presidential candidates. republicans remained largely silent on the matter. president trump later appeared to double down tweeting so sad to see the democrats are sticking up for people who speak so badly of our country and who in addition hate israel with a true and unbridled passion. whenever confronted they call their adversaries including nancy pelosi racist. they're disgusting language and the many terrible things they say about the united states must not be allowed to go unchallenged. if the democratic party wants to continue to condone such disgraceful behavior we look forward to seeing you at the ballot box. distract, deflect, divide.
>> eddie, irony is dead. it died quite some time ago. south park just finally gave up because donald trump was more bizarre of course than anything than they could lampoon. but here we have a tweet from a man whose parents met when the son of german immigrants met a domestic worker who had recently immigrated to america and they met in queens. a borough that aoc represents. using donald trump's logic instead of saying the american dream is dead in 2016 and instead of talking about american carnage, instead of saying that america was quote, crippled, using his own logic he should have gone back to scotland instead of running for president of the united states. >> not thinking -- >> actually, his mother was an immigrant to this country.
>> and joe, so is his wife, so is his father-in-law. mother-in-law. the one thing that's consistent is that they're all white. and for the president of the united states this country is for white people. period. the rest of us should just simply be thankful that we're here. if we decide or deign to criticize the country we suggest to those we are not grateful. for him it's a white nationalist position, we need to understand that for what it is. it's racist position at its core but i want to say something really quickly, joe. i think you're right about the political calculus that he's coming off a week that was pretty bad. but donald trump understand there's a cold civil war going on in this country. that that's some folks out here who are unsettled, uneasy by the demographic shifts that are happening. they're looking at the television and they're seeing these black and white couples,
these racially ambiguous kids selling cereal. they're unsettled by what's happening and donald trump has fed on that anger and angst from day one. from the day he announced his presidency. to how he's governed. there's a cold civil war and as he's playing politics their children who are worried that they're going to have their parents or their father or uncle is going to be taken away from them. they're worried if they go outside their families go outside, they're worried that i.c.e. is going to raid. even if they don't, they're living under terror. there are folks like me -- i receive emails on a regular basis telling me to go back to africa. all right? and so part of what he's doing is exploiting what's happening in the country and that cold civil war, joe, is not just simply the loud racist he's appealing to. it's about all of us who hold these certain understandings of what this country is and how
we're fighting about where we're going -- who we're doing to be. so you're right. it's a short term gain. it's a political calculus. but something is happening. we have only had two moments like this before in our country's history from my vantage point. one was the civil war and reconstructionist, historians called that the second founding. the other was the mid 20th century, joe and that's called the second reconstruction. both of those moments constituted an opportunity for the country to re-imagine itself. here we are in this moment and the president of the united states has announced which side he's on. that's where we are. >> you know, i think we don't know exactly how this plays out in the long run. we do know a couple of things about where we are. this is a nation that elected a black man president two times. in fact, he got elected with 53%
of the vote. i think if i'm not mistaken, that was the largest vote total in 20 years for any percentage wise for any president -- presidential candidate running. and we're also at a place too where i do think -- i think racists and bigots are encouraged by this sort of talk. there have been some studies that we have reported about here that actually donald trump's racism is actually making americans more acutely aware of racism in their own midst and making them more sensitive and actually making america less racist. of course, that's one study. we won't know for another decade perhaps. but still, there is a part of me that wonders if this not only backfires on him politically in the short term but also backfires on white nationalists
from driving them out from underneath the rocks they came and exposing them for the horrific human beings they are. >> let's hope so, joe. donald trump made it very clear to all of us that we're not living in a post racial america and many of us knew that for some time. and what donald trump did yesterday he's very aware, he knows exactly what he's doing. basically what you, joe and mika were saying, he's running a base election. he's just doubling down. he basically traded in his racist dog whistle for a racist bullhorn. and a megaphone. this is what he does. just think about this. in the 1990s, there used to be these blind taste test commercials that were done where they would blindfold someone and they would say to them, what's the difference between a mcdonald's and a burger king burger? what's the difference between a
coke and a pepsi? here you have yesterday a twitter feed. you could not -- if you did a blind test on the twitter feed you could not tell the difference between the twitter feed of the president of the united states and a radical racist white supremacist. you could not tell the difference. >> i mean, seriously -- yeah, you could ask people, did david duke say this or did donald trump say this? >> exactly. that's exactly right, joe. here's the thing. this goes back to the point that i was trying to make at the beginning here which is donald trump is not testing his 2020 strategy. this is his 2020 strategy. it is racism, it is fear. >> that's correct. >> it's bigotry. >> last hope. >> this is his last hope. he's doubling down and tripping down and the scary thing about it joe, what you and mika were saying, that the republican party is silent. they're not saying anything so he's going to continue to do this. because it's only one side that's talking about it.
right? or people who are anti-trumpers like yourself. the republicans who should be helping us keeping him in check are not. because they're getting what they want. and that is the scary part in all of this. >> well, to her point, joe, many would argue that why he's doing in -- doing this for -- note to republicans, it's not to help you out on certain policies that you might be able to squeeze out of him, that you sit there in your fear. you sit there, spineless, incapable of speaking out against racism because you think you might squeeze something out of him. he might stand by you in some way and help you get votes. it's pathetic. many would say he's doing this to bottom feed for his last hope to win the election so he doesn't have to face, for example, the southern district of new york. he's not doing it for you. he's doing it for himself and it's all he's got left. >> right. you look at david french, the
tweet that we put up from david french, quite a few conservative commentators that came out and attacked donald trump. and david french said take the curio comment, put in the "s" hole countries comment and it would be the gop gaslighting, minmallizations of his defense. mike barnicle, i think for me, we all know who donald trump is. for me, the story that is not, you know, ground noise, the story that is the signal is the fact that the major political party in america that is controlled the house and the senate for the better part of two decades, the entire republican party has been mute when donald trump made a statement that every one of them
would have criticized five years ago coming from david duke. they are that frog in the boiling water. i mean, let me call them out. lindsey graham. why isn't graham saying something? this is the sort of thing that graham warned the republican party about before president trump was in power. where is ben sasse? a lot of people thought that ben sasse would take politics to the higher plane. this doesn't look like a higher plain. let's talk about cory gardner in colorado. that's a swing state. cory is in trouble. >> joe, how about lamar alexander who's retiring? i mean, alexander isn't even running again. and he has been a main stay of so many good things that have happened in the republican party. where is lamar alexander? i mean, i can give you examples that just don't make sense that they're not speaking out. it's bizarre. >> why aren't they speaking out?
why hasn't mitt romney spoken out yet? why hasn't thom tillis, where's joni ernst? >> i think he has a shock collar on him. >> where are all these people that should be this is not hard, mike barnicle. this is what all of america used to criticize david duke for saying five years ago and this is why david duke has publicly time and again celebrated the presidency of donald trump. is that where the republican party wants to be? because that's where they are right now. >> they are cowering in the corner. they are a party now that is not only mute as you pointed out, joe, they now have no conscience. they care more about their jobs than they do about the country. they have a president of the united states you can talk about diversion. he did this to deflect this, to get our attention over there instead of here. no. what he did yesterday, that's who he is. that's who he is.
first question that ought to be asked donald trump in any public forum is when you hear the word america, mr. president, tell us what you think it means. what do you see in that word? it won't be what this country really is all about. >> it's also this is far from the first time he's done this. that must be said again. this is not just a political calculus to distract from bad headlines and that may have played a role in the bad timing of the tweet. he said look at the central five park, and mexican immigrants were listed as immigrants. the way he described african nations as bleep hole countries. the fact that his entire political career was based on the racist live birtherism, questioning if the first african-american president of the united states was born in this country. what he got yesterday was complete silence from republicans. he has paid no penalty from his own party for any of these remarks. yesterday, i was there with the
white house when that tweet came out about the democratic congress women. minutes later, he got in his motorcade and went golfing at his golf club in virginia where he spent the entire day. he returned to the white house that evening. i'm told he gauged some reaction. there was no criticism from republicans, it was radio silence. there was nothing that the conservative -- in the conservative media attacking and he doubled down with another tweet. this is who he is. the republican party is going to -- as long as they remain silent, this is who he's going to continue to be. >> and mika, in the poll that we showed that donald trump losing to bernie sanders by seven points, joe biden by nine points, elizabeth warren by five points, nine out of ten republicans approve of donald trump's performance as president. let me say that again. nine out of ten republicans
approve of donald trump's performance of president of the united states, a performance that's included one racist screed after another. so this is not just about donald trump. this is not just about elected leaders in washington, d.c. this is about a political party now that has embraced the racial ideology of david duke. good luck with that in the years to come. because you are going to be left on the dust bin of political history, republicans. >> and we have put this on the proper context this morning. covering this story, looking at the poll numbers where he loses to three top democrats including maureen -- including elizabeth warren. >> and bernie sanders. >> and bernie sanders. and also in the shadows of him having his labor secretary finally step down. the labor secretary who was the u.s. attorney who gave jeffrey epstein donald trump's friend who he had a party with calendar girls with a sweetheart deal. so in the context of all of that, the president distracting,
deflecting and dividing. still ahead on "morning joe," we'll get to that maureen dowd piece that joe referenced at the top of the show. plus, presidential candidate bill de blasio joins the conversation. he's back in new york after a blackout plunged parts of the city into darkness over the weekend. later today, we'll sit down with presidential candidate joe biden in iowa as he unveils more policy proposals and fights to stay the democratic front-runner. we'll bring you that full interview tomorrow on "morning joe." let's bring in bill karins with a check of the impact of the severe weather that hit the gulf coast this weekend. bill? >> good morning to you, mika and barry made landfall over the weekend. we had flooding issues and we had a lot of scenes like this. we did have at least one levee that got breached that did send some floodwater into some homes as you saw right there. a lot of the homes you're looking at right here are meant for the floodwaters. they're up on stilts but still people are going back in now and
seeing what kind of damage was left behind. so here's what we're dealing with this morning. overnight we had a foot of rain north of lake charles so the big huge rain shield heads northwards. everything in maroon is a current flash flood. and here's a look at the thunderstorms this morning, near lake charles and even back into texas. this is a widespread storm. this afternoon, the heaviest rain will be in memphis, little rock and paducah. as far as the forecast goes a heads up for everyone in the northeast and the ohio valley. a significant heat wave, hottest temperatures of the year are coming. d.c. can hit 100 and new york city in the mid 90s. once we get done with barry then the heat is on. new york city, times square, today will be the coolest day of the week. i think new york city you'll be in the upper 90s by saturday. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.
if you have moderate to thsevere rheumatoid arthritis, month after month, the clock is ticking on irreversible joint damage. ongoing pain and stiffness are signs of joint erosion. humira can help stop the clock. prescribed for 15 years, humira targets and blocks a source of inflammation that contributes to joint pain and irreversible damage. humira can lower your ability to fight infections.
serious and sometimes fatal infections including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. help stop the clock on further irreversible joint damage. talk to your rheumatologist. right here. right now. humira. woman: (on phone) discover. hi. do you have a travel card? yep. our miles card. earn unlimited 1.5 miles and we'll match it at the end of your first year. nice! i'm thinking about a scuba diving trip. woman: ooh! (gasp) or not. you okay? yeah, no, i'm good. earn miles. we'll match 'em at the end of your first year. what do all these people have in common, limu?oug [ paper rustling ]
exactly, nothing. they're completely different people, that's why they need customized car insurance from liberty mutual. they'll only pay for what they need! [ gargling ] [ coins hitting the desk ] yes, and they could save a ton. you've done it again, limu. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ but we're also a company that controls hiv, fights cancer, repairs shattered bones, relieves depression, restores heart rhythms, helps you back from strokes, and keeps you healthy your whole life. from the day you're born we never stop taking care of you.
joining us now, a member of the house judiciary committee. democratic congresswoman madeleine dean of pennsylvania. she serves as vice chair of the bipartisan women's caucus. the congresswoman has a new puce in the philadelphia enquirer saying it's time for an impeachment inquiry. you look at the facts, they're there. it's all deeply disturbing but isn't there some political strategy in terms of timing and also getting republicans support? >> absolutely. i'm certain we're going to need republican support and we'll need public persuasion and make sure the american people know
what has happened. that's why i'm pleased that we have special counsel robert mueller coming before our committee on the 24th. >> and what do you hope that robert mueller can accomplish beyond his report that will help push an impeachment inquiry into sort of the public mindset and maybe even rally some republicans? i mean, what can he do that hasn't been done yet? >> what he can do is bring to life the mueller report. i don't care, some people say well, he won't go beyond the four corners of the document. there are so much that the american people don't know that i'll be delighted if he can help us bring to life the report. whether it's the welcoming and wallowing of the foreign interference in our campaign. with russian officials, welcoming and wallowing in it.
or the obstructive behavior that took place that's detailed in volume 2. there's so much there. imagine that this administration wanted to win based on help from a foreign foe. think about what it says about what this president thinks of our democracy. >> congresswoman, as a lawyer, and when you read the mueller report, especially anybody who spent time prosecuting cases it is so clear that there are really indictable and certainly impeachable facts in the four corners and this will bring it to light. how do you reconcile the impeachment inquiry with the polling over the weekend where the support for impeachment among the american people is down to 21%? it's not even 50% among democrats. so how do you reconcile the political reality that the country is not there versus --
which is going to be pretty important if we have any -- if any impeachment inquiry is actually going to capture their attention and hold their attention. how do you reconcile that? >> well, one of the problems that we have had is this confusion, public confusion with ag barr mischaracterizing the report, allowing a mischaracterization to lay out there for a month and all of the obstructive behavior in the meantime. we tried to bring ag barr before us and he ignored the subpoena. and the same thing with mcgahn. when mcgahn failed to come before us that's when i called for the impeachment inquiry. so this administration has been very effective at obstruction, both detailed in the report and of our congress constitutional obligation. we have a patriotic duty so i get that the poll are where they
are and mueller will be a pivotal step to hear his voice come to life and tell us the elements of obstruction. >> so representative dean, i'm convinced by that argument, how do you convince speaker pelosi about that argument? >> i don't think i'm in conflict with speaker pelosi. as a member of the judiciary committee i find myself sort of in the front line. and i have actually had colleagues come to me on the floor and say to me they're on other committees and say, you have come forward with impeachment inquiry why is that? i give them the details of how obstructive this administration has been to our oversight so i believe i'm doing the work of the committee as a worker bee in the front line. and i believe the speaker's job is so much different. she has to shepherd an entire caucus. she has to lead an entire congress. she's somebody who quotes abraham lincoln all the time without public sentiment almost nothing is possible. with it everything is possible.
we have to bring public sentiment along by our patriotic oversight. >> there was a kerfuffle of sorts last week between nancy pelosi and some members of the caucus, specifically freshmen and she asked if they have an issue come to her and don't tweet. and alexandria ocasio-cortez took it very personally, thought it was focused on the four freshmen, specifically her. even said it was racially charged which took it to a whole new level. in her latest column for "the new york times" entitled scaling woke back mountain, maureen dowd writes in part this. the 79-year-old speaker and the 29-year-old freshmen are trapped in a generational and ideological tangle. that poses a real threat to the democrats' ability to beat donald trump next year. aoc should consider the possibility that people who disagree with her do not disagree with her color. congress is not a place where you achieve radical progress
certainly not in divided government. it's a place where you work at it and work at it and don't get everything you want. the progressive acts of anyone who dares to disagree with them is wrong, not bad. guilty of human failing some impurity that's moral evil that justifies their venom in the age of trump there is no more stupid proposition than that nancy pelosi is the problem. if aoc and her pig mailians and acolytes decide that burning down the house is more important than deposing trump they will be left with a racist backward president and the emotional satisfaction of their own purity and i couldn't agree with that more. >> well, what a great line. if nancy pelosi is your problem, i mean what a stupid proposition -- >> last time i've checked she's done this before. >> yeah. claire, i wanted to go to you briefly here. i mean, i would be a complete
hypocrite if i condemned what aoc and other fire brands were doing their first year in congress because i did the same from the right. and i spent the rest of my time trying to build bridges even though i still was taking pretty absolute positions on balancing the budget, taxes, et cetera. et cetera. but it is though after a time you figure out, you can't do anything by yourself there. and you do hope that some freshmen members of this class just like people were hoping that freshmen members of my class would understand that before they did too much damage to their own careers and to the caucus they represent. >> yeah. i think the thing that was really the head scratcher for me and frankly, really made me angry was the notion that aoc's chief of staff -- a staffer, would go after sharice davids.
this congresswoman knows sharice davids. she is history making in congress. he is is the first native american elected to congress and the second lesbian elected to congress and she deposed a republican who had been in office for a long time. she and other freshmen are the face of us taking the majority in congress. it is not the only two people who won primaries. we had dozens of people beat republicans. the notion they would go after her personally and that he would call her by her first name in a tweet, you know really -- what the hell? you know, that is just outrageous. and i think -- i do want to thank donald trump though briefly because were it not for his tweets yesterday morning we would be spending all morning talking about this division. instead, he has done what he only -- only he could do. he has reminded us that our
unity as nancy pelosi said, our unity is our power. and i think that he really backfired what he did because i think it has, you know, glossed over this division and brought us back to what the main goal here which maureen dowd articulated so well and that's deposing donald trump. >> and karine, in 2016 a lot of people -- a lot of young people who are totally devoted to aoc and everything she said legitimately so because she is -- she is breaking new ground for the democratic party. what are the odds that these young people who sat on their hands and did not vote in 2016 can be encouraged by aoc to vote in order to achieve one goal, one goal only, defeat donald trump. >> well, i'll say this, in 2018 we some historical numbers among the millennials, among the young voters. they came out in historical numbers and we saw that just
across the board. but with young people. so i think they are paying attention. and i think they are listening. i have to say that, look, the infighting i wish that it stops. there are kids in cages, families being separated, you have donald trump shredding the constitution and just does not care about the position that he holds. a very incredibly powerful position that he holds. but it is a complicated scenario here because the four women -- the squad as they're called, they also represent a big part of the base that we do need to excite. that we do need to get involved, just like as you're mentioning the young people, barnicle. but i'll go back to this for a second. this is what you're all talking about with the nbc and "wall street journal" polling that came out, the head to head with donald trump and essentially the tier one democrats in the primary. this is my cautionary tale.
yes, donald trump is -- can't go above 42, 43%. on an average the democrats beat between him 45, 48 percentage points. democrats are probably going to win the popular vote because of the way that the demographics are set. but the problem is that donald trump could get 42% and still win with the electoral college votes if we don't get back pennsylvania, wisconsin and michigan. and that's the cautionary tale for folks so we have to stay focused. we have to keep our eye on the ball. which is donald trump, which is winning in 2020. keeping him -- holding him accountable. we have to hold him accountable. and that's the really important thing here. >> a follow-up to karine's points, a prediction that donald trump would still thread the needle in the electoral college and so i think that's true. switching gears about the i.c.e. raids.
they were scheduled for this weekend. i think it's important to note, there are pictures circling around social media in the last day or so like neighborhoods like sunset, brooklyn, where on sundays parks are filled with soccer games and families walking around and they seemed really empty this weekend so i think there's certainly a fear element there. can you tell us about what you have heard in terms of what happened with the raids and what might happen next? >> it's one more example of this president sowing hatred, fear and division in our country. in my own district, we put out information about what people's rights were. when somebody comes to your door with an i.c.e. warrant. that you do not have to open the door unless they have a proper search warrant for your property. so this was the president in a collapsed way saying in advance he was going to do these things. then recognized that was a bad idea. because people are going to stay back and stay home and protect themselves and their families. it's just more of the chaos. i have to tell you i was also at
the border recently. you pair this immigration -- chaos policy with the inhumanity that i saw at the border, women, 56 days held in the elements and came inside the very day that we were there. their lips were cracked open with exposure. they were in a cell -- i counted it, ten cinder blocks by 13 cinder blocks. they had one toilet for 15 women. they had no running water and they were told to drink out of the toilet. that water was clean enough. this is the inhumanity. and the utter incompetence of this administration and then you pair that with this weekend's fear tactic, we're going to come raid and take people away, and i'd love to talk to you about what i saw at homestead. 2,300 children being held for profit at homestead. i went there with john lewis and
many other colleagues and he said we came to bear witness and what we witnessed was warehousing of children for profit. the final thing they showed us which was stunning to me, they showed us a room which was like an air traffic control room and they were bragging frankly about following these travelers very different travelers. little children. they showed us one large screen which was tracking the last 14 days of the children's minority. meaning when they were aging out. and it showed the day that we were standing there one child was aging out was turning 18 that day. we said what happens to that child? they said, oh, they'll be taken by i.c.e. we have been in touch with i.c.e. all along. i said are they taken out in shackles? they tried to say no. and then they said oh, yeah, they are. we had two aging out the next day. $775 a day per head for profit on these children, and they watched them age out of -- >> who does the profit go to? >> to this private company.
>> what's the company? >> burn -- cal auburn. you know the former chief of staff john kelly is on the board there. $775 per head per day and they go out in shackles. >> all right. thank you so much. >> that is what we need to be focused on and thank you so much for bringing it to light. >> thank you very much. >> that's incredible. coming up political sabotage by tweet. >> new reporting shows that president trump hurt someone by his tweet. >> while we hear from some democrats in washington, d.c. referring to u.s. customs and border facilities as concentration camps what we saw today was a facility that is providing care that every american would be proud of. >> wow. vice president mike pence toured two border facilities on friday.
and then defended the conditions inside. we'll be right back. most people think a button is just a button. ♪ that a speaker is just a speaker. ♪ or - that the journey can't be the destination. most people haven't driven a lincoln. discover the lincoln approach to craftsmanship at the lincoln summer invitation. right now, get 0% apr on all 2019 lincoln vehicles
plus no payments for up to 90 days. only at your lincoln dealer. i didn't have to shout out i didn't have to get you a lift. and i didn't have to call your wife to meet you at the doctor. because you didn't have another dvt. not today. we discussed how having one blood clot puts you at risk of having another,... ...so we chose xarelto®, to help keep you protected. xarelto®, is proven to treat and reduce the risk of dvt or pe blood clots from happening again. in clinical trials, almost 98% of people did not have another dvt or pe. don't stop taking xarelto® without talking to your doctor, as this may increase your risk of blood clots. while taking, a spinal injection increases the risk of blood clots, which may cause paralysis- the inability to move. you may bruise more easily or take longer for bleeding to stop.
xarelto® can cause serious, and in rare cases, fatal bleeding. it may increase your risk of bleeding if you take certain medicines. get help right away for unexpected bleeding or unusual bruising. do not take xarelto® if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. before starting, tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures and any kidney or liver problems. enjoy every moment and help protect yourself from an unexpected one, like another dvt or pe. are you doing enough? ask your doctor about xarelto®. to learn more about cost and how janssen can help, visit xarelto.com.
welcome back to "morning joe." monday, july 15th. still with joe and me we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle. white house reporter for the associated press, jonathan lemire. eddie glaude jr. claire mccaskill and karine jean-pierre. the republican party's essential silence unfortunately sets up our next guest very well. president trump tweeted so interesting to see progressive democrat congresswomen who originally came from countries
who are the worst and most corrupt, blah blah blah, something about going back to their countries. it's all pretty disgusting so you can read. if you really want to. but at this point, we're not going to. the president of course is not mentioning anyone by name but the four apparent targets of the president's tweets were congresswoman ocasio-cortez of new york who was born in the bronx to the parents of puerto rican descent. >> americans. >> congress woman rashida tlaib who was born to palestinian immigrants. presley of massachusetts who is black and she was born in cincinnati. >> an american. >> raised in chicago. >> american. >> and congresswoman ilhan omar who was born in somalia but moved to the united states when she was 12 and is a naturalized u.s. citizen. >> an american. >> that would be an american. >> yes. >> republicans have so far
largely remained silent on the matter. a spokesman for senate majority leader mitch mcconnell declined to comment yesterday. one sitting republican member of congress we did find who weighed in is chip roy of texas who tweeted, potus was wrong to say any american citizen whether in congress or not has any home besides the u.s. >> he should have stopped there. >> he then continued, but i just as strongly believe noncitizens who abuse our immigration law should be sent home immediately and reps who refuse to defend america should be sent home. wow. that brings us to the much anticipated new book. "american carnage, on the front lines of the the republican civil war and the rise of president trump." joining us now is the book's author, chief political correspondent for "politico" magazine, tim alberta.
tim, congratulations on the book. >> thank you. >> thanks so much, tim. we greatly appreciate you being here. you know, it's so interesting now we just talked about a poll that showed nine out of ten republicans support donald trump and the job he's doing. you can find lindsey graham calling him a racist, disgusting saying he'd destroy the republican party and my son reminded me this weekend of the early debates and i must admit i forgot about it. donald trump would be booed overwhelmingly inside those early republican debates. it was hard to imagine he was anything but the loser of those debates. if you just listened to the audience responses because they would roundly boo him. now, the entire party is falling in line. >> they have. and you know what's actually really interesting to think about the early debates as well is imagine the world we're living in. let's go to an alternate universe for a minute.
imagine the world we're living in if ted cruz and rubio and kasich who finished up two, three and four behind donald trump if they had forcefully gone after donald trump, if they hadn't waited six months to begin their assault to keep him from winning the nomination. they believed he would implode or step aside on his own and it's amazing. i recount with cruz especially in the book how his campaign went through this sort of tortured, strategic thinking about well, we can't afford to alienate some of trump supporters because when he gets out of the race they'll come to us. and what donald trump has figured out better than anybody so many of the republicans are weak, afraid of confrontation. why everyone wonders why there's radio silence in response to the tweets it's for the same reason
that none of them took him on in the primary season because they're afraid of him. they're not oriented toward political confrontation and trump smelled that weakness and went after it. >> they don't know how to fight inside the republican party, you're exactly right. we brought up -- i said to paul ryan in realtime, don't endorse him unless you get something back from him because trump will think you're weak and sure enough, that was the case. but you look at all of the people, lindsey graham, and you brought up -- i would say mitt romney because he hasn't said anything yet. but ted cruz is a perfect example. here is a guy who donald trump attacked, said his father assassinated jfk and called his wife ugly by tweet. now, for most americans if someone did that to you you'd go after that person for the rest of your life politically. i mean, i would not sleep until
that person's political career was destroyed. ted cruz now defends donald trump. >> yeah. and the amazing thing is i have this wonderful scene in the book in which ted cruz's crafting his convention speech. he's under pressure from a lot of the advisers to go ahead and endorse donald trump, look you have a long career in front of you. you're the runner-up for the nomination, let's not do anything rash here. say we have had our differences but i want the party to unite around donald trump in november, et cetera. et cetera. cruz refuses and he looks at the advisers the day before that convention speech in cleveland when they're giving the last ditch appeal and he says, guys, history is not kind to the man who holds mussolini's jacket. and it was this moment that everybody around remembers in this clarifying moment. it's so appropriate now as you move forward and think about not just cruz obviously but really the party writ large.
so many of the folks who voiced their concerns publicly and privately during the campaign who have swallowed them, who have turned a blind eye to this. you do wonder how history will recall them. >> jonathan lemire, picking up on ted cruz's own language, you have a guy who is carrying mussolini's suitcases. he's carrying his water, he's carrying the suitcases, he's carrying everything. how do you go from thinking what lindsey graham thought about donald trump then to now or if you're ted cruz, you think this guy is mussolini and now you're okay with him. you let him come and campaign for you in your state despite the fact that he accused your father of assassinating jfk and called your wife ugly. >> who does that? >> who does that? >> not only that, but senator cruz's advisers were desperate for the president to come to the rally in texas and polls showed
him in the virtual dead heat with beto o'rourke in the senate race. yes, cruz and graham are two basic examples who at one point spoke out against the president and have now held their tongues and endorsed more or less everything he's done. and then paul ryan, the president has given your book some free advertising and focused on the ryan section of it. tell us a little bit about what those conversations you had with the former speaker, and what he thought privately about the president which when he was in governing didn't say publicly. >> well, it's been a heck of a week. if i had to draw up a top ten list of things in the book that would have evoked a tweet storm from the president i'm not sure that ryan's commentary would have made the cut. look, ryan had the very tortured 2 1/2 year stretch from the moment that trump clinched the nomination he told myself i have to pipe down. i have to harness the criticisms i can't speak out every day.
but if you recall, about three weeks after ryan finally endorsed donald trump in late may of 2016 this this was right around the time that the judge curual thing blew up. he basically called trump a racist and so their relationship basely deteriorated over the summer into the fall. ryan was telling everybody who would listen, listen, he won't win the presidency i don't care about playing nice with him. we need to position ourselves for a post trump republican party and on election night, ryan had a speech he was ready to give in wisconsin, i was there, he was ready to give a speech denouncing trumpism and basically using election night to turn the page on the ugly chapter and then trump wins. and then ryan puts the speech back in his pocket, he needs to make the best of a bad situation here. >> good lord. >> look, nobody around ryan will deny the fact this was a really, really tortured experience for him because privately he would say almost every day.
look, this guy is killing us. he's immoral. unethical. he's unfit for office. but ryan felt as though that any day spent wasted tangling with trump was a day not spent advancing the legislative agenda. he said i can't be the speaker of the house and be a critic. they feel like ryan should have done much more to hold the president accountable and when ryan and i sat down after he left office you could see the relief and the liberation just washing over him. he offered me a beer. it was like 1:45 in the afternoon. i thought to myself this is going to be good and he uncorked. he had a lot to say about trump. i asked him, why wait until now? and he said, look, i couldn't do my job if i was sounding off on this guy every day. that was essentially the calculation he made. obviously again a lot of folks disagree with that calculation. >> that's one more story from a deeply, deeply and well reported
book that you have out now. it's incredible. the paul ryan story is deeply depressing. at the risk of setting off claire mccaskill early though, i want to ask you about another republican who seems to be pivotal and i think history might regard this individual, mitch mcconnell, as the critical character in trumpism. >> yeah. you know it's interesting. if you were to use ryan, paul ryan, as one poll of how the republican party was reacting to donald trump throughout his ascent i think mitch mcconnell is the other poll. mcconnell kept his mouth shut. he was very disciplined and careful not to poke the bear. mcconnell who has a finely tuned political antenna, he could see that something was happening in the republican base. he could see there was something brewing and mcconnell knew he himself headed into re-election needed to be on the right side
of this so mcconnell was very careful, very cagey. he made sure he didn't alienate any of his supporters and he said, look, paul is going to handle the policy, i'm going to handle the personnel. that means judges. right, that means confirmation hearings and mcconnell basically took the same tack as ryan at that point, look, any day spent getting into verbal spats with donald trump is a day that it makes it harder for us to confirm any judges or more realistically a day that's harder for us to do push the white house to give us judges to confirm and mcconnell really again going back to the campaign it's interesting. mcconnell made the calculation very early that the presidency was going to hinge not only on donald trump versus hillary clinton but that the presidency was going to hinge on this open supreme court seat. and mcconnell told some of his advisers within a week of
antonin scalia of passing, if we hold this seat open it's not just the presidency in balance but the supreme court. there's no way that donald trump wins the presidency without that supreme court hanging in the balance. >> so -- >> claire mccaskill, i spoke with mitch during the republican national convention in cleveland and he told me at that time that he didn't -- you know, he was like you know what, this guy doesn't know anything about policy, he doesn't care about judge. i don't love what he says but you know what, let him get elected. we'll pass the bills. we'll pass the judges. he'll rubber stamp them and it will be good for the republican party. that was his attitude then and it's still apparently his attitude today. >> yeah, mitch mcconnell took lemons and made it into lemonade. he's the ultimate political opportunist and he saw an opportunity for power. he knew he would be able to have his way in terms of trying to
set the judiciary for a generation, a federal judiciary, lifetime appointments. he saw that as the hidden gem in trump frankly being grossly incompetent. one of the problems they have had is they have not vetted very well at the white house. which has caused problems obviously with the cabinet, but also with the judiciary. i'm interested in when you sat down with paul ryan, when i remember my time in the senate the 12 years i was there, the recurring theme in the republican party was fiscal responsibility. i mean, it was quaint when you think back to the tea party movement. that was all about fiscal responsibility. and, you know, the debt and deficit. how frustrated -- i mean, does paul ryan realize that that part of the republican party has completely exploded and they are now once again the leaders of the most fiscally irresponsible government in american history.
>> i think paul ryan not only realizes it but i think paul ryan has come to terms with the fact that he was the one who probably lit the fuse on the dynamite that exploded it. i talked about to the earlier point, senator, in the book "american carnage" available for preorder on tuesday, that paul ryan was in this really interesting situation because he was in congress before the tea party wave came along and he was at first very, very encouraged in 2010 when he saw all of these insurgent outside conservatives running for congress. of course as we all recall at the time the message from the tea party was all fiscal. it was obama's bankrupting the country and too much spending. too much debt. the deficit's out of control. if we don't get this back within our means, if we don't start spending within our means if woe don't bend down the fiscal trajectory of the country we'll go over the cliff like greece. when you look at the voting records of some of to 2010 republicans and how they have voted since donald trump came into office on any number of
things that have blown up the deficit, ahhed to -- added to the debt, one has to reach the conclusion that maybe just maybe that the tea party wasn't about the fiscal issues. maybe it was a culture issue and i think that that is so important to realize that donald trump more than anybody else in the republican party even more so than ted cruz he identified i think very, very early on that many republicans especially many culturally conservative republicans in the base of the party they don't care that much about policy. they care about culture. that was what he was able to tap into so effectively. >> that's right. >> well, we'll have much more ahead with tim alberta on his new book "american carnage" including a nickname for the vice president that was coined on capitol hill. mike pence often and eagerly nods along as the president speaks. earning him the name bobblehead. we'll get into that relationship next on "morning joe." >> the wall is being built.
the wall is being built. we had a couple of very good decisions. we had one bad decision. it's very tough. again, paul ryan let us down. paul ryan was a terrible speaker. frankly he was a baby. he didn't know what the hell he was doing. the wall let us down. downne of utility vehicles. at the lexus golden opportunity sales event. lease the 2019 rx 350 for $389 a month, for 36 months, and we'll make your first month's payment. experience amazing. but we're also a company that controls hiv, fights cancer, repairs shattered bones, relieves depression, restores heart rhythms, helps you back from strokes, and keeps you healthy your whole life. from the day you're born we never stop taking care of you.
welcome back to "morning joe." we are talking right now to chief political correspondent for "politico" magazine tim alberta. his new book, "american carnage, on the front lines of the republican civil war." preorder today. it will change your life forever. tim, how is that -- >> i'll take that. all right. >> you know, so interesting, mcconnell i was telling you about how he said to me, trump doesn't care about policy. you correctly talked about the hypocrisy in the tea party that came in 2010 and doesn't care about small government.
republicanism -- conservatism anymore. but if you look down the list of policies that i believed in my entire lie, that conservatives like paul ryan supposedly believed in their entire life, they have been thrown out the window with trump. you talked about the deficit. we balanced the budget four years in a row when i was there. now, we have the biggest explosion in deficits during economic good times in the history of the republic. the national debt is higher than it's ever been before. it's exploding at record rates under donald trump. you can talk about free trade. trump is a protectionist along the line of writers at nation magazine. you can go down the list. even immigration. look at ronald reagan's farewell address to america. it's in contrast to what the republicans have done.
we can talk about reagan about the republicans pushing back against russian aggression and president trump has kowtowed to an ex-kgb agent. really on some of the biggest policy issues for conservatives through the years, donald trump has taken the party and the complete opposite direction. >> you're right. when you think about the republican party at least the reagan era republican party onward, joe, it had been described as the three legged stool. you had fiscal conservatism and conservatism and the strong national defense. not just military might but sort of your philosophical leader or your projection of american influence and values abroad. if you cut off one of the legs the stool collapses but the two of those legs have been cut off. you still have the social conservatism and you lump it in
with issues like religious liberties and abortion. this republican party spent eight years of the obama presidency warning that we were going over the cliff, that the country was going to become insolvent because -- and frankly not just barack obama. remember, the tea party took down john boehner because they claimed he was spending too much. the only two years of reduced government spending we have seen since the korean war happened because of a deal between barack obama and john boehner. let's not let facts get in the way. the second point, on the national defense, it's very interesting to watch as republicans have remained largely silent not just on the president's rhetoric about muslims or about women of color in the democratic party or about number of other things that we can all agree are beyond the mainstream. but where are the rest of the republicans on nafta, where are the rest of the republicans on that projection of american influence abroad? that's another area that it's stunning to see. remember when mitt romney ran in
2012 his entire foreign policy was oriented around being strong against russia and this idea that geopolitically america needed to be that strong presence in the western hemisphere to keep things in order. and that the post world war ii nato alliance had held the world together. the republican party circa 2019 is basically nowhere to be found on those issues. >> tim, there's a tension here as i think about the claims of the book of particularly that claim. so on the one hand, we see that donald trump in some ways hijacks the party. that is in the sense that the republican party whether it's three legs that we knew -- that we have known since 1990 is no more. kind of turned its back on its own ideas as it were. and then there's this idea that donald trump is a reflection of something. that he isn't, right, this exception figure. that he didn't create the current gop. so on the one hand we have him
displacing something. on the other hand we have him reflecting something. so oftentimes we try to read donald trump as the singular figure but you make a claim in the book he didn't create the current gop. talk about what that means in the details. that's what's underneath this. what the republican party is isn't just simply donald trump's creation. >> i'm glad you asked because look, this is not a book about donald trump nearly as much as about the republican party and a step further, sort of the american culture and what brought us to this point. look, donald trump would not have been able to hijack the republican party unless they were ready to be hijacked. george w. bush late in his second term is seeing some of this brewing and he talks about protectionism and isolationism and he said this is going to eat us alive and trump was prescient
in seeing some of this. the point being, look, we all can see this polarization, this disunity gripping the country right now. if we want to lay all of that at trump's door stem i think it's a big mistake because trump tapped into these things. he weaponized these things but he did not create them. really he's the by-product of this environment. really, donald trump is going to come and go. right, he's not going to be president forever. what do we do with the forces once he's gone? they are still going to be here. they're rearing their ugly heads a little bit on the left and it's not to compare anybody in the democratic party to donald trump. but you're seeing some of the same sort of asymmetrical political warfare, the ideological gamesmanship happening in the democratic party and you wonder where does it go from here and donald trump is not going to be the president forever. he rode in on the wave. it was cresting at the perfect time, he rode it, but it's going to keep going well after he's gone. >> all right. the new book is "american
carnage, on the front lines of the republican civil war and the rise of president trump." tim alberta, thank you very much. >> thank you for having me. coming up, evangelical voters have played a large role in elections throwing their support behind candidates like ronald reagan and george w. bush. now, despite his muslim ban, despite his anti-immigrant policies and despite allegations of a lot of sexual misconduct, evangelicals continue their support of donald trump. we're trying to figure out exactly why, next on "morning joe." ♪ limu emu & doug
mmm, exactly! liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. nice! but uh, what's up with your partner? oh! we just spend all day telling everyone how we customize car insurance because no two people are alike, so... limu gets a little confused when he sees another bird that looks exactly like him. ya... he'll figure it out. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ like.. pnc easy lock,
so you can easily lock your credit card when its maximum limit differs from its vertical limit. and clover flex, for when you need to take credit cards when no one carries cash. or requesting a call to help get a new credit card- one that hasn't followed the family goldfish. pnc - make today the day. did you know congress is working to end surprise medical billing? that's when patients are hit with medical bills they thought would be covered by insurance.
the problem is big insurance companies want a one-size-fits-all approach that lets them decide what they'll pay doctors for yocare. letting insurance companies decide means it could be harder for you to see the best doctors when you need them the most. tell congress, "end surprise billing, and don't let insurance companies put profits over patients. paid for by physicians for fair coverage. here, hello! starts with -hi!mple... how can i help? a data plan for everyone. everyone? everyone. let's send to everyone! [ camera clicking ] wifi up there? -ahhh. sure, why not? how'd he get out?! a camera might figure it out. that was easy! glad i could help. at xfinity, we're here to make life simple. easy. awesome. so come ask, shop, discover at your xfinity store today.
will you appeal to the president to put off the raids? >> i'll going to appeal to the people of faith, the faith based organizations to appeal to the president. i think that they put him in office and they have a better voice for this. >> well played. that was house speaker nancy pelosi on why she had been appealing to president trump's faith based voters to stop yesterday's i.c.e. raids.
white evangelicals make up 15% of the u.s. population but have played a significant role in american politics. after perceived threats to christian culture in the '60s and '70s the religious group was catapulted to fight what jerry falwell called a holy war for the moral soul of america. falwell and fellow televangelist pat robertson mobilized the congregations instructing them to win back america by electing republicans. the gop seized on the group by adopting issues important to the christian right. ever since, white evangelicals have played a large role in electing republican presidents including ronald reagan and george h.w. bush. now, according to pew research center over 77% of evangelicals identify as republican or republican leaning. president trump's approval rating among that key group was at 69% as of january of this
year. down nine points since trump's all-time high of 78%, one month after taking office. joining us now to talk about the influence of evangelicals and their support for president trump is columnist for "time" magazine david french. he's the author of the piece evangelicals are supporting trump out of fear, not faith. in which he writes part, quote, the relentless drum beat of claims against trump combined with the clear moral declarations of the past have caused millions of americans to look at their evangelical fellow citizens and ask simply, why? why have you abandoned your previous commitment to political character, to embrace donald trump? part of the explanation is undeniably basic partisanship and ambition. with us also is pete wehner, the new piece is entitled the
deepening crisis in evangelical christianity. pete explains in part, quote, many evangelical christians are also filled with grievances and resentments because they feel they have been mocked, scorned and dishonored by the elite culture over the years. for them, trump is a man who will not only push their agenda on issues such as the courts and abortion, he will be ruthless against those they view as threats to all they know and love. for a growing number of evangelicals his dehumanizing tactics and cruelty aren't a bug, but a feature. also with us is elizabeth diaz, covering faith and politics for "the new york times" and the author of the piece her evangelical megachurch was her world, then her daughter said she was molested by a minister. and then the host of msnbc's "politicsnation" and president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton is with us.
>> all right. time to go to church with this group. >> we'll learn a lot. >> so david french, i think i'm probably a little older than you are. but you and i grew up i'm sure in the same culture. everything mika was reading about explain -- describes my family. life long democrats who became republicans in the late 1960s and so much of it had to do with, you know, we were southern baptists, first baptists in chamblee, georgia, first baptist -- wherever we went, first baptist church, right? but this happened time and time again. over time, we felt like our beliefs, our culture was not only under attack, but also that we were constantly being mocked and ridiculed by hollywood. by popular culture.
because actually people who believe what we believe were being mocked and ridiculed and people can deny that, but it happened for years. i guess, david, how do we come to terms with the fact that many of the people we went to church with and are friends with -- life long friends with can now turn a blind eye to what's happening to young children at the border? can support a racist president? yesterday, the pastor talked about the story of the good samaritan. that's not a better parallel in all of the bible than the good samaritan and what's happening right now with young children at the border. how do we sort through this and what the heck is going on? >> well, you know, i think one of the things we do is we have to understand motivations here. what has happened is evangelicals have taken legitimate concerns about religious liberty, legitimate concerns about issues like life and then have turned it into
what i would almost call a cultural panic. there's this idea and this fear if they don't vote for donald trump i heard this many, many times, religious liberty is over. america is over. if you have that level of panic, not only are you willing to turn a blind eye to other issues. sometimes in your desperate desire to support someone and to see them win, you're going to deny the existence of the issues in the first place. i talked to evangelicals, i live in tennessee. belt buckle of the bible belt. i talk to evangelicals all the time who in their support for trump simply deny some of the negative aspects about who he is. they just flat out disbelieve the facts and are also overcome with fear. which at its base is not a biblical response to our times. the scripture says god did not give us a spirit of fear, but evangelicals operate out of the deep fear. >> a deep fear, pete wehner, that completely ignores and let
me say this very carefully, the teachings of jesus christ. i'm not talking about the properipheral teachings of jesus christ. i'm talking about the parable of the good samaritan. when the disciples say hey jesus which one of us gets to sit at your right hand? and jesus in matthew 25 says, i'll tell you who. the one who gives, you know, clothes to the naked, who gives food to the hungry. who gives water to the thirsty. who gives hope to the hopeless. it could not be more straight forward and it could not be in greater contrast. what jesus said to the behavior of donald trump. go through every one of the beatitudes. i don't know what donald trump's faith is, but i know this. he said he's never needed jesus to forgive him. i know that that's at the core
of evangelicals -- it wasn't always like this. i don't mean to go on like this, but during katrina i went over to new orleans and mississippi with evangelicals every day for about two months and evangelicals were all over the place, filling a void that caused you and a lot of people a lot of pain. what happened to that church? >> yeah. it's -- look, i think you have laid it out very well. i think david is right. i think there's a lot of fear which is transmuted into anger. and i think you put your finger on it. what has been exchanged is the ethic of jesus for the ethic of nietzsche. the will to power. and there's a brutality and a cruelty and a dishonesty to donald trump that i think at the beginning of the trump era bothered a lot of white evangelicals. that is they were willing to embrace him because he thought he'd advance their agenda and
they were willing to accept the worst features of him. i think that's changed because i think what's happened is trump became the voice of these grievances and these resentments. and in my conversations with evangelicals and i have had a lot of them, i'd say that there is now an excitement and that they're energized by the sense that he'll bring a pistol to a cultural knife fight. that the grievances and resentments are so deep that they want somebody who will wipe out the left. they feel like george w. bush and john mccain and mitt romney were people of better character of donald trump but they didn't understand the existential nature of the struggle. i want to say one other thing, joe. this is the most personally painful thing to me, how discrediting the whole thing is not only for the republican party but for christianity. because the world see the hypocrisy. they see everything you said.
they say this is a game. turns out the arguments about morality during the clinton era didn't matter. morality was a means to an end. it was to be politically weaponized. and what happened -- what's happening i think is what's defining this is political tribalism. that's disfiguring faith. if you're a person of the christian faith which you try perfectly to do is to take faith as the starting point and you try and you mold your life as best you can around those things including as a christian the teachings of jesus, i think that's just gotten flipped on its head and people are being driven by the partisanship. so in the process, they're remaking their faith in a way that's -- that really is discrediting. >> and david, let's again go back to what jesus said about taking care of the least among us. i saw a poll last week that echos what pete says here and that is that people with no
particular religious faith are far more concerned about the treatment of little children being abused at the border than evangelicals. it just -- it reminds you of jesus and the sermon on the mount talking about what good is salt without its flavor? it gets thrown out and trampled under foot. again, where are the pastors? where are the leaders? to say, hey, why don't we focus on what jesus said and then instead of watching news networks or listening to talk radio, let's focus on those red letters and the gospels and you and i try to figure out what we should do in 2019 before jesus's ministry. >> look, there are good faith arguments to be had about how many people come into the united states, about what kind of border security we should have,
but once people are here, there is a nondellable duty to treat people with dignity and humanity. this is something that should unite every single person. when we're in the wealthiest most powerful nation in the history of the earth we have the resources to treat people with dignity and humanity. we absolutely do. not just the government, by the way. you mentioned the evangelical outpouring after hurricane katrina. the american church has immense capacity to do good. immense resources to do good. so this is a nondellable duty if a person is person, an adult male or female is here, they should be treated with dignity and the humanity and what we're seeing on the border are people being treated with less dignity and humanity than we treat prisoners, than we treat felons that's a grievous harm to our country and that's something we
should be able to unite secular and faithful citizens alike around this idea. >> rev, you can do two things at once. like david, i suspect i'm far more conservative on immigration and the stopping of illegal immigration than anybody else on this panel. but at the same time, as david said when people come here legally seeking refugee status, or when parents bring their children up here, we have a duty whether you're a christian or whether you're a jew or a muslim or an agnostic or an atheist, we have a duty as a country to take care of those seeking refugee status. children are brought up here through no fault of their own. >> well, there's no question about that, and that is -- how we both practice asylum laws as well as the moral commitment. but as i looked at what peter
and david wrote, the real phenomenon we're dealing with here is that they are dealing with evangelicals who are culturally born and raised in that and never went through a conversion theologically where they dealt with the teachings and principles of what that meant. so if you grow up in an evangelical background, you go with what is the tribal i think someone said this morning, more than what you really believe because you really don't get down on what jesus taught and his principles and his parables. let's not forget with the evangelical conservatives are today is where they have always been. when martin luther king jr. wrote his letter from a birmingham jail which is now a part of american history, it was write -- he was writing to white evangelical ministers in birmingham that said, slow down, calm down. this is the way things are. it will be all right.
it is always been those that would exploit and demagogue the white evangelical cultural masses and use them for their own means. and what donald trump is is the new tent revival exploiter of people that believes in certain things. that is swept up with the charismatic figure who doesn't live any of what they live, doesn't believe in the tenets but knows how to scam them if you don't follow me, if you don't stand with me they're going the wipe you out. the muslims are coming, the mexicans are coming. the blacks are going to marry your daughter. that we have seen throughout history and we're seeing it personified now in the white house for the first time. but the formula has existed for a long time. >> but you know, pete wehner, i mentioned this years ago, that there was a change in the evangelical church that when i first got elected in 1994 and with the support of the
evangelical church probably 80, 90% -- i mean, it's why i got elected. the young evangelicals that would come to my office and apply for a job would be talking about traditional social issues whether it was abortion, same-sex marriage or other things like that and i always commented that it was so funny. by the end, six years, seven years later when i was leaving, they were coming in birkenstocks and tie-dye t-shirts and do you know what they were talking about? aids in africa. what george w. bush -- i mean george w. bush saved untold number of lives because as an evangelical christian he felt the duty to do everything he could to stamp out aids in africa. but it was -- that's why in katrina in 2004, 2005, that's why there were young evangelicals all over the gulf coast handing out water, handing out diapers. handing out food, doing the sort of things that made me proud.
there was a change and now it seems that's been wiped out. >> yeah, i think that's right. although i do wonder if there's a silver lining in this which is the younger generation. and david and others can give their own anecdotes on this but my sense is the younger generation sees this as more of a freak show conducted by graham and jeffers and all the rest and they're horrified. they are committed to having a different kind of cultural and social engagement and the center of that from what i can tell is justice. you look at a ministry like gary hogan which does fantastic work and that energizes a lot of -- a lot of young evangelicals. you're quite right. there was this enthusiasm and commitment to global aids. you know, sometimes in life viruses create their own antibodies and i think that when
you're seeing what's playing out on the stage in terms of a lot of the white evangelical world and that association with donald trump i think there is a reaction. one other thing is that there is a movement being led by some people at fuller cemetery. an artist and the president of fuller, they refer to something as culture care rather than culture war. it doesn't see the world as a battleground as opponents and enemies but an idea of grace and creativity and leaning toward the alien and the stranger and the enemy and creating bridges of understanding. i hope that that will become the new kind of model. that is something that i want to give more thought to and a lot of christians need to. it is a different paradigm and much more of jesus. in the end, that is what has to
prevail to this movement to get back. when you look at the history of the christian church, when has it been most powerful. not with political power but when it was identified with caring for the sow journer, alien and dispossessioned and caring for the people in the shadows of society. when under persecution when conducted that way is when it won its converts. when it has acted for power for power sake, that's when it has done the most damage to it self-. >> elizabeth, perhaps you can help us sum up with what we've been talking about with your coverage of people of faith in the "new york times." we are talking about a specific group of people, people of faith, evangelicals who seem to have an undue influence on the political party.
they cannot see or understand or refuse to understand the reality of this president's character. what have you found in the coverage of them? >> the main thing i want to throw in here is that this crisis for them is not just about politics. what is driving it is this cultural crisis we've been seeing. after 2016, we decided we really needed to focus on what was the cultural conflict that was happening and for women and for children, we found that their voices are internally in the evangelical community. they are not being heard there. if they are not being heard there, how can they be heard at the border and outside the community at home. one of the main crisis in baptist churches is the sex abuse crisis. that is something the churches have not been talking about.
when we have children and women who are finally starting to come forward and say what's happened to them and we are watching the brotherhood of the leadership immediately clamp down and stick together and push problems under the rug, we are starting to see these internal cracks and divisions and that then plays out on this national trail. that gives insight into why so many evangelical men that support president trump are only listening to one another here. >> so corine, i wonder if there is an opportunity here for democrats to fill a void that really does seem to be created here. we notice pete buttigieg has really impressed many with his deep ability to discuss his own faith but is there more democrats can do?
>> that's such a good question. look, we have a president of the united states donald trump who is literally the antithisis of christian values. he sits behind the desk and he is a racist, a xenophobe. all of these things. democrats need to lean into their values. their relayingon and not be afraid to talk about it. that is one thing that pete buttigieg and one of many things to be fair to him that he's brought to the conversation and his campaign. i think that's what these contenders need to do. lean into it. it is okay. we have a president who does the complete opposite. lean in and highlight those things. that's one way we can bring more people into our big tent. >> rev, we know american
religion has been conflictual. how can we understand the debate, read evangelical with this broad brush as if white evangelicalism defines it? >> there's always been a conflict. there's always been a william sloen for every falwell. we need to identify the debate as we confront it. it is important on the other side as they believe in social justice as a principal to say, no, you do not represent what christ was. dr. king said we cannot allow them to take the flag and cross from us. what we've done wrongly in the last couple of decades is define the flag and crosby right wingers rather than by those who believe in what christ taught
which would not make you right or left but right down the center of what is morally correct. we have to take the flag and cross back particularly with this in the white house. >> this has been a pretty incredible conversation. what we've learned here is that we need to have many more of them. david french, pete wainer, reverend ha reverend sharpton. new pool polling shows president trump is fairing worse than barack obama at this point in the race. plus, an investigation is under way into the cause of the major power outage that left nrkt in the dark. mayor bill de blasio will be with us.
>> and nafta and mike pence. the mayor disagrees. we'll talk about that when "morning joe" returns. most people think a button is just a button. ♪ that a speaker is just a speaker. ♪ or - that the journey can't be the destination. most people haven't driven a lincoln. discover the lincoln approach to craftsmanship at the lincoln summer invitation. right now, get 0% apr on all 2019 lincoln vehicles plus no payments for up to 90 days. only at your lincoln dealer. woman: (on phone) discover. hi. do you have a travel card? yep. our miles card. earn unlimited 1.5 miles and we'll match it at the end of your first year. nice! i'm thinking about a scuba diving trip. woman: ooh! (gasp) or not. you okay? yeah, no, i'm good. earn miles. we'll match 'em at the end of your first year.
but we're also a company that controls hiv, fights cancer, repairs shattered bones, relieves depression, restores heart rhythms, helps you back from strokes, and keeps you healthy your whole life. from the day you're born we never stop taking care of you. and i don't add from thtrup the years.s. but what i do count on... is boost® delicious boost® high protein nutritional drink has 20 grams of protein, along with 26 essential vitamins and minerals. boost® high protein. be up for life. can't imagine doing it any other way. this is caitlin dickerson from the new york times. this isn't the only case. very little documentation. lo que yo quiero estar con mi hijo. i know that's not true. and the shelters really don't know what to do with them. i just got another person at d.h.s. to confirm this.
i have this number. we're going to publish the story. i have this number. and i recently had hi, ia heart attack. it changed my life. but i'm a survivor. after my heart attack, my doctor prescribed brilinta. it's for people who have been hospitalized for a heart attack. brilinta is taken with a low-dose aspirin. no more than 100 milligrams as it affects how well brilinta works. brilinta helps keep platelets from sticking together and forming a clot. in a clinical study, brilinta worked better than plavix. brilinta reduced the chance of having another heart attack... ...or dying from one. don't stop taking brilinta without talking to your doctor, since stopping it too soon increases your risk of clots in your stent, heart attack, stroke, and even death. brilinta may cause bruising or bleeding more easily, or serious, sometimes fatal bleeding. don't take brilinta if you have bleeding, like stomach ulcers, a history of bleeding in the brain, or severe liver problems. slow heart rhythm has been reported. tell your doctor about bleeding
new or unexpected shortness of breath any planned surgery, and all medicines you take. if you recently had a heart attack, ask your doctor if brilinta is right for you. my heart is worth brilinta. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. this judge is giving us unfair rulings. now i say why. well i'm building a wall. it is a wall between mexico not
another country. in my opinion -- >> he's from indiana. >> mexican heritage and proud of it. >> you are saying he can't do his job because of his race, is that not the definition of racism? >> i don't think so at all. >> is that not a racist statement? >> i couldn't disagree more with that statement. >> party of lincoln intends to circle the wagons. >> i think the party of lincoln wants to win the white house. >> and here we are again, president trump over the weekend told four women of color, all u.s. citizens, duly elected member of congress to go back to the countries they came from, a racist put down and so far, silence from the republican party. mitch mcconnell declined to comment. no comment. how is that possible?
>> how is it possible that the president of the united states makes a racist comment, proofs once again he is a racist. there is no criticism whatsoever from the republican party. you had paul ryan calling trump a racist and two or three days later, he endorses donald trump. again, it is very important to remember that this is donald trump trying to distract. this is donald trump trying to distract that he was humiliated in the census issue. he had to back down there. there weren't many i.c.e. raids over the weekend, so that didn't go off as planned. he must have gotten the word that was the case. he read maureen dowd criticisming the four women. he did what donald trump does. he outrages people and he wants to further divide the democratic
party. >> distract and divide. >> this is a short-term gain for the president. it is not going to expand his base and get to 50%. there is a reason he is the only president in american history sinced at vent of polling to never get to 50%. this is exactly why. >> this is where we begin. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, july 15. along with joe and me, we have msnbc contributor, and white house reporter and professor at princeton university. former u.s. senator, now nbc news and msnbc political analyst and contributor. great to have you all on board this morning. we'll get to that racist tro p
everyo e in a moment. how poorly he's doing compared to praesident obama in the 2012 cycle. found his approval at 45%. disapproval at 52%. comparatively in july 2011, obama had 47% approval and 48% disapproval. general election matchups, trump loses handily to biden by nine points. 51 to 42. sanders bests by seven points. 50-43. senator elizabeth warren tops trump by five points. 48 to 43 and harris with a one-point edge over the president. in the july 2011 wall street
journal poll, praum was leading romney by seven points at 48% to 41%. the president not fairing well against candidates he was laughing at at one point. >> laughing at and still attacking. let's put up these numbers again. it shows donald trump getting beaten badly at this point by joe biden. nine points. joe biden is beating donald trump badly after turning in a poor debate performance. we often talk about in the past, biden has run ineffective campaigns. in this presidential run, i can't help but think the age of trump allows joe biden to make mistakes and be unscathed. whatever biden or any other democrat does, it pales in comparison not only to the
racist and general ignorance and poor performances donald trump puts in. about the same time biden was having a terrible debate performance, a day or two later, donald trump went on fox news and rambelled around and suggested littering was created two years ago in big cities. he's set the bar so low. again, you look at these numbers, biden up by nine, bernie up by seven. elizabeth up by five. all democrats trump has mocked endlessly. he still trails them and trails biden very badly. >> what he's done effectively and not for the first time, he is the only story in this
country. donald j. trump. this is a true le depressing weekend after that tweet. basically the president of the united states saying to four women of color, go back to where you belong. who hasn't heard that in the past in this country? >> we are going to talk about that in a second. tell me --s th that's going to our next story. but again, donald trump dividing his 41, 42% on one side. if you are a person of color. if you are in michigan, pennsylvania, florida, you stayed at home in record numbers against hillary. are you going to stay at home again? >> he continually focuses on a
third. population, his base. whatever sanders or warren do in the polls. up, down, whatever. at this stage, it's meaningless because it focuses on trump and his mistakes rather than campaigning as president of the united states rather than president of one-third of the country. >> it doesn't make any sense. with his strategy, he'll win alabama, missouri. i wonder if he's not making the same mistake every politician makes, every general. he fights the last war. he's not going to have comey dropping a letter ten days ahead on biden. he's not going to have the mistakes in the next campaign clinton made on the last campaign. i'm guessing biden or whatever nominee gets, they'll probably do polling in 2020 unlike
clinton's team. the guys fighting the campaign. that's why this base strategy for winning states republicans hardly ever win is so surprising to me. >> it is interesting because if you look at what he's done as president, he has stayed so focused on the people in those rallies. he loves the rallies. the fact that he can pack people in to these buildings and they can say, lock her up and all of the inappropriate things he has said that they roar to. he's so hooked on that. when he is making policy and typing with his thumbs in his bathrobe. he is thinking of them. instead of those voters in suburban america that are totally offended. he's making no attempt whatsoever to be president of the united states. it is fascinating to me that
even in the face of this polling shows that he is historically deeply unpopular as the sitting president and that identifies the word socialist in his title is beating him by six or seven points. this is nuts. this is nuts. it is interesting there is not more of a fire drill going on but he is who he is. let's stay united and focused on the prize here. if our party doesn't stay focused on the prize, we could make mistakes and could end up throwing this presidency in his lap for what would be a disasterous second term. >> still ahead more on all of this. plus the mayor of new york city bill de blasio joins us and we'll sit down with joe biden. that extended interview on
and you never know how your skin will look. because deep within your skin an overly sensitive immune system could be the cause. so help heal your skin from within, with dupixent. dupixent is not a steroid, and it continuously treats your eczema even when you can't see it. at 16 weeks, nearly four times more patients taking dupixent saw clear or almost clear skin compared to those not taking it, and patients saw a significant reduction in itch. do not use if you are allergic to dupixent. serious allergic reactions can occur, including anaphylaxis, a severe reaction. tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems, including eye pain or changes in vision. if you are taking asthma medicines, do not change or stop your asthma medicine without talking to your doctor. help heal your skin from within. ask your eczema specialist about dupixent. governot just the powerful help hand well-connected.within. that's the american promise. but big corporations and special interests are in control. nothing's happening for real people.
our democracy has been purchased. the candidates running for president have great ideas. but we can't get anything done unless we make our democracy serve the people again. i'm tom steyer. i approve this message. i'm running for president because it's time our democracy works for people. high protein. low sugar. tastes great! high protein. low sugar. so good! high protein. low sugar. mmmm, birthday cake! pure protein. the best combination for every fitness routine. but we're also a company that controls hiv, fights cancer, repairs shattered bones, relieves depression, restores heart rhythms, helps you back from strokes, and keeps you healthy your whole life. from the day you're born we never stop taking care of you.
>> here we have a tweet from a man whose parents met when the son of german immigrants met a domestic worker who had recently immigrated to america. they met in queens. aborough that aoc represents. using donald trump's logic, instead of saying the american dream is dead in 2016. instead of talking about american carnage. insaid of saying america is, quote, crippled. he should have gone back to scotland instead of running for the president of the united states because actually his mother was an immigrant to this
country. >> and joe, so is his wife, father-in-law, mother-in-law. the one thing that is consistent is that they are all white. for the president of the united states, this country is for white people, period. the rest of us should simply be thankful we are here. if we decide to criticize the country, we suggest to those we are not grateful. for him, it is a white nationalist position. we need to understand that. it is a racist position at its core. i want to say something really quickly. i think you are right, he's coming off a week that was pretty bad but donald trump knows there is a cold civil war going on this in country. there are folks unsettled by the demographic shifts, they are looking at the television seeing these black and white couples,
racial li racially am big uous kids selling cereal. it is unsettling. president trump has run on that. there is a cold civil war. there are children worried they'll have their parents or father or uncle taken away. they are worried if they go outside, they are worried i.c.e. is going to raid. even if they don't, they are living under terror. there are folks like me. i receive e-mails on a regular basis telling me to go back to africa. all right. so part of what he's doing is exploiting what is happening in the country. that cold war is not simply the loud racist he's appealing to but to all of us who hold the certain understanding about what
this country is and fighting about what this country will be. you are right. it is a short-term gain. something is happening. we've only had two moments like this in our country's history. one was the civil war. historians call that the second founding. the second century, the black freedom struggle. both of those moments constituted an opportunity for the county tore reimagine itself. here we are in this moment and the president of this united states has announced which side he's on. that's where we are. >> you know -- yeah, i think. we don't know exactly how this plays out in the long run. we do know a couple of things about where we also are. this is a nation that elected a black man president two times.
in fact, he got elected with 53% of the vote. if i'm not mistaken, that was the largest vote total in years for any presidential candidate running. we are also in a place where i think racists and bigots are encouraged by this sort of talk. there are studies reported here that actually donald trump's racism is actually making americans more acutely aware of racism and making them more sensitive and making america less racist. of course, that's one study. we won't know for another decade perhaps. but still, there is a part of me that wonders. if this not only backfires on him politically in the short run, it backfires on white nationalists by driving them out
of the rocks from which they came and exposing them for the horrific human beings that they are. >> let's hope so. one thing i would say that degrom made it very clear to all of us is that we are not living in a postera. he's very aware. he knows what they are doing. he's running a base election. he's doubling down. he traded in his racist dog whistle for a bull horn or megaphone. just think about this. in the 1990s, there used to be these blind taste test commercials where they would blind someone sand say what is the difference between mcdonalds and burger king or between coke
and pepsi. here you have a twitter feed, if you did a blind test, you could not tell the difference between the twitter feed of the president of the united states and a radical racist white s supremest. >> david duke. you could ask people, did david duke say this or president trump? >> exactly. donald trump is not testing his 2020 strategy. this is his 2020 straigtegy. >> it is racism. it is fear. his last hope. he is doubling down, tripling down. the scarey thing what you were saying earlier is that the republican party is silent. they are not saying anything. so he's going to continue to do this. it is only one side talking about it or people that are
anti-trumpers like yourself. the republicans who should be helping us are not. they are getting what they want. that is the scary part. coming up, bill de blasio hopped off the campaign trail after that blackout in new york city. we are back in three minutes. when the hot sun hits your ice cream lick fast like a cookie dough ninja. apply that same speed to the ford hurry up and save sales event. for the first time ever get 20% estimated savings on select ford models, plus earn complimentary maintenance through fordpass rewards. it all adds up. don't you love math? so get here asap because tasty deals and summer go fast. get in or lose out
on 20% estimated savings on select ford models, plus earn complimentary maintenance through fordpass rewards. can't imagine doing it any other way. this is caitlin dickerson from the new york times. this isn't the only case. very little documentation. lo que yo quiero estar con mi hijo. i know that's not true. and the shelters really don't know what to do with them. i just got another person at d.h.s. to confirm this. i have this number. we're going to publish the story.
mno kidding.rd. but moving your internet and tv? that's easy. easy?! easy? easy. because now xfinity lets you transfer your service online in just about a minute with a few simple steps. really? really. that was easy. yup. plus, with two-hour appointment windows, it's all on your schedule. awesome. now all you have to do is move...that thing. [ sigh ] introducing an easier way to move with xfinity. it's just another way we're working to make your life simple, easy, awesome. go to xfinity.com/moving to get started.
>> it is not often the two new york tabloids are on the same page in their headlines but neither paper was particularly pleased with mayor de blasio after parts of manhattan were plunged into darkness. and after leaving the campaign trail in iowa to come back to tend to the after effect in new york. mayor, it is quite something how being mayor of new york prepares you to run for the presidency in a way that nothing else quite does. there we have the two headlines.
let me ask you though, a lot of questions about what happened on saturday. can you explain to us in lay men's terms about why midtown went dark on saturday night? >> absolutely, joe. so this is the first serious blackout we've had in about 13 years. it went on about five hours. about 70,000 customers were affected. con-ed repaired it. we are going through a full investigation to make sure it doesn't happen again. to your point, when you are co-executive of one of the largest sits, these things have to be dealt with. i got with my team to make sure all the first responders were there. they did an incredible job. fdny, nypd, people got the help
they needed. new yorkers are resilient. they do right by each other and support each other. people were directing traffic and helping out. i have to tell you, every time there is a challenge or adversity, new yorkers step up. >> they did this time as well. so what do you take of the criticism people have aimed at you. "the new york times" this morning claimed that you, quote, dithered. what more could you have done? you were in iowa. didn't know that this would happen. what more could you have done when you were out of town? is. >> when you are a chief executive, it doesn't matter where you are. you are in charge. obviously the fire and police and emergency prepare for things like this. the important thing was to get
the right people in the right place. that was handled. not a single injury. five hour duration. anyone having a problem, our first responders were reached. i got information, had to make decisions and make sure people were doing the right thing. that's something i have to do wherever i am. if you are a chief executive, you understand the world differently than legislatures. god bless legislatures but i'm responsible every time if there is a crisis, it is responded to. like i said, it has been 13 years. we'll work to make sure it never happens again working with con edison, holding their feet to the fire. they got to people and provided the help people needed. >> mr. mayor, i asked you to come on the show and talk about nafta. i think it will be the center of the debate soon. we'll talk about that in a minute but first go to our new
york daily news alumni who last time asked you about your work out regimen. jonathan. >> my finger is always on the pulse here. let's just say. let me stay on this subject. you were in iowa when this happened. your campaign was already scheduled. once word came out and you were updated to the extent, why did it take for the next morning for you to come back? >> literally, the availability of planes. we drove four hours to chicago. there wasn't a plane until it the next morning. what we need to grade chief executives by is what happens in the administration and what gets done. there was not a single injury. the entire duration was five hours. i was in touch every step of the way making sure things were
happening. put it in context. you know the city well. six years in a row, crime has done down, 500,000 new jobs, much stronger social fabric, much more unity in the city. let's gray the whole picture. i'm very proud of what new york is today and my role in getting it from. some other folks, you can look at their ideas, words, proposals. when you are chief executive, you look at the whole picture. in six years, this is a strong city today with strong actions that knew what to do in a crisis and did it in great fashion. >> to follow up, governor cuomo of new york city state who you've had an uneve enrelationship. >> you need to be in the state department. >> he said you have to be on site. everyone makes their own
political judgement. he's second guessing you. my question is this, unless you are elected president, you are working with the governor several more years. how does this situation work for the benefit of new york? >> we've always managed. we've had terror attacks and very serious situations. we've known each other a long time and worked together. we have differences too. wow, amazing. a governor and mayor with differences but we know how to work together to get things done. i'm proud of the people in new york city and first responders. what you see in new york every day is the finest police and fire department and folks who know what to do in a crisis. my job is to make sure they have what they need and the right leaders at the right time. >> so mr. mayor, we want to talk about the new nafta. there is an op ed this morning
from vice president saying the new nafta must be passed. some democrats who are going along with that. others are remaining quiet. you think that this new nafta must be open oisposed by the democratic party and if they don't, the democrats will pay consequences in the fall of 2020. explain why. >> joe, that's exactly why. some democrats seem to be aligning with president trump and vice president pence and others laying low staying quiet. that's unacceptable. this is a moment of truth. this is the heart and soul of our party and our country. the old nafta was devastating to so many communities especially the midwest. the old nafta is one of the reasons so many americans felt that government wasn't on their side, the democratic party didn't understand them.
and we have folks in washington about to make the same mistake twice. they gave it a nice new name. not calling it nafta 2.0 but it is empowering those companies even more. if you said maybe we'll make sure there are stronger rules, are you going to depend on donald trump to enforce those? no. those should be rejected out of hand. it is a test for democrats. you are either against it or for it. i say reject it out of hand. we are going to have a democratic president in january 2021. i believe that. let's create a fair trade treaty working on working people's needs, fair jobs, improving wages, giving labor unions the same rights multinational
corporations are given. let labor negotiate across boundaries. auto workers in mexico, united states and europe, they have common interests. let them put their ideas together. with that vision, joe. that would excite a lot of everyday americans. working class and business class americans believing the democratic party were on their side again. those people who voted for president trump or stayed home in wisconsin, michigan oro high owe because they weren't hearing anything from democrats about their jobs and families. what if they said, no nafta. but democrats stand for working people. we are the party of working people. we reject it out of hand. if we do that, we have the chance to be the democratic party people care about and are willing to vote for again. >> there are nearly 25 people
running for the democratic nomination. some of them are attuned with you and saying exactly the same thing you just said. you are in iowa over the weekend and getting roasted for it in new york city. why are you running? >> i'm running because our party at this moment is not the party of working people. it has to be again for the good of this country. i'm running because we have a federal government not on the side of the working people. you know it. if you go all over america across the spectrum, ask them. is the federal government on your side? they'll say no. in new york, in six years, i have put the government on the side of people. pre-k for free. guaranteeing health care for anyone who does not have health insurance. passing a law saying if you are a working person, you should be
paid two weeks paid vacation like every other industrialized country on earth. saying they are doing something for you. i'm running because i have ndon it. i've done it in the nation's biggest city. i went down the road in each case and find out how to get it done and talk to new yorkers whose kids have gotten pre-k. used to pay $15,000, $10,000 a year for their kid to get a decent start and now it is free to them. i've done it. i need this country to do that for all the people. >> mayor, let me ask you a question. we've just been grappling with the nonsense of the president,
the recent tweets, threatened i.c.e. raids and the census. how would you -- how will you speak to the fissures he's created. this is related, we've also witnessed a kind of civil war within the democratic party. some are saying the party is pulling too far left and we are going to end up reelecting that guy. >> two big issues. here is what donald trump is doing. he said he was going to make america great again. he's making america hate again. the effort to divide people and not just along racial lines but from day one, from his announcement speech presenting immigrants, all immigrants as the enemy of working and middle
class people. this is a cynical strategy to divide working people so they wouldn't be working under common interest. if you are an american citizen working or middle class and you don't think the american dream is working for you, worried about your kid's future. the immigrants did not put you in that position. they did not have the power to undermine your middle class lifestyle. who did that to you? is wall street, the big corporations did that to you. when the american people get to hear that truth -- they are angry at the elites but being told look over here at the immigrants. when they focus on who did it to them, that hatred will dissipate and folks will understand the changes that need to be made. that is good for the progressive movement and democratic party. to your point about what is
going on in our party. we need to have this battle for the heart and soul of this party. let's go back to nafta. look at this silent effort to pass nafta when no one is looking. i am very blunt that some things are both the faults of democrats and republicans. democrats in the past decades made some of the same mistakes in terms of under cutting working class people. if we are having an honest fight, if we become the party of working people, we are unbeatable. if people say what is the difference between those parties, donald trump wins. >> all right, mayor bill de blasio. thank you for being on the show this morning. >> thank you. >> still ahead, more than three dozen democratic senators have come out in support of legislations that would improve
living situations at border facilities. we'll talk to the senator when we return. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. right now, congress is working to end surprise medical billing. that's when patients are hit with medical bills they thought would be covered by insurance. but what congress is considering would cut money that vulnerabe patients rely on the most. that means seniors, children, and americans relying on medicaid would be hurt. it's already too hard for people to get basic medical care with hospitals closing and a shortage of er doctors. tell congress we can end surprise billing without shredding the safety net. paid for by physicians for fair coverage. that's ensure max protein, with high protein and 1 gram sugar. it's a sit-up, banana!
bend at the waist! i'm tryin'! keep it up. you'll get there. whoa-hoa-hoa! 30 grams of protein, and one gram of sugar. ensure max protein. ♪ ♪ award winning interface. award winning design. award winning engine. the volvo xc90. the most awarded luxury suv of the century. high protein. low sugar. tastes great! high protein. low sugar. so good! high protein. low sugar. mmmm, birthday cake! pure protein. the best combination for every fitness routine.
but we're also a company that controls hiv, fights cancer, repairs shattered bones, relieves depression, restores heart rhythms, helps you back from strokes, and keeps you healthy your whole life. from the day you're born we never stop taking care of you. from the day you're born that i won the "best of" i casweepstakes it. and i get to be in this geico commercial? let's do the eyebrows first, just tease it a little. slather it all over, don't hold back. well, the squirrels followed me all the way out to california! and there's a very strange badger staring at me... no, i can't believe how easy it was to save hundreds of dollars on my car insurance with geico. uh-huh, where's the camel?
"mr. big shot's" got his own trailer. ♪ wheeeeeee! believe it! geico could save you 15% or more on car insurance. yeah, i've had some prettyeer. prestigious jobs over the years. news producer, executive transport manager, and a beverage distribution supervisor. now i'm a director at a security software firm. wow, you've been at it a long time. thing is, i like working. what if my retirement plan is i don't want to retire? then let's not create a retirement plan. let's create a plan for what's next. i like that. get a plan that's right for you. td ameritrade. ♪ time now for business before the bell with cnbc's reporter.
we have a lot to talk about. >> karl, china having one of its lowest numbers in decades. >> on the president's mindset. not just making america great but making china weak. this gdp number of 6.2 is down from 6.4 in the first quarter. the president glossed over the fact that factory orders were above expectations. some people believing maybe the central bank is putting stimulus in the pipeline. other stories whether u.s. big changes are moving supplies out of china. we were in vietnam a couple of weeks ago. this is turning into a big story. companies are trying to move supply chains across the border to avoid tariffs. the he request is whether vietnam can handle it.
railways and ports are taxed handling this new business. >> they've had an impact but this is something the communist leadership there has been worried about for years. the ambassador there said they panicked any time the gdp would get under 9%. is this natural for any country whose gdp exploded like china's did. and there's not a western power that wouldn't take 6.2% growth and have a ticker tape parade all over the main streets of america, right? >> absolutely. we talked about seven being sort of their benchmark in growth. it has trickled down from there. you talk to a lot of big companies who manufacture there and say where else can you go where there is a standing army
of ready workers skilled to put together products for the u.s. the number of candidates that can replace that at scale is limited. >> let's turn to your special documentary on e cigarettes. local officials are cracking down on the public use and sale of vape products like in san francisco, the home town of leader juul labs which recently enacted the country's first blanket prohibition of e cigarette sales. you sat down with juul founder. >> juul is a fraction of the use of vapor products by minors. we get a lot of the attention because we are the biggest brand and manufacturer but we are certainly only product out there. >> not the only but the most popular among kids.
>> their own data that argues the percentage of use by minors is a small fraction. your reaction is -- >> look, we have other data that suggests something different. it is not a trivial portion. >> um, i know a lot of teenagers. all i hear about is the juul. >> it is a big deal. any parent who is a parent of say, a kid over 10 knows this is an issue. 3.5 million kids vaping now. growing among high schoolers. juul argues, look, we need to tackle this and part of that involves an apology. i'm sorry to parents dealing with addiction. this is a big story not just here but around the world. there are a billion smokers in
india and china. that is where they want to crack but they have to run the gauntlet policy wide. >> maybe don't make flavors for kids. common now. for more on the vaping vee nom none. vaporized, america's e cigarette addition airing tonight on cnbc. thank you so much. >> thanks, guys. >> we appreciate this work. a man has been fatally shot by police after attacking an immigrant jail in washington state over the weekend. the 69-year-old man was armed with a rifle around 4:00 a.m. on saturday and throwing devices at the tacoma detention center causing a vehicle to ignite, set
buildings on fire. when officers arrived to the scene, they called out to him and then opened fire. it is unclear if he was flares. a friend of the suspect says she believes he wanted to end his life. the shooting took place the same day vice president mike pence visited migrant detention centers in texas and just hours after a peaceful rally in front of the washington facility. joining us now, member of the intelligence and armed services committees, independent senator angus king of maine. senator, thank you so much for being on the show this morning. i know you are behind legislation that should try and help especially the migrant children who are suffering in some of these facilities. >> this bill should actually be called this is a bill that should never even have been necessary. >> right. >> it basically calls for humane treatment of children at the border. one of your earlier guests said
we can argue about what the policy should be for the border but once people are here, particularly children, we have a fundamental obligation to treat them humanely. it drives me nuts that we have to pass legislation saying, give kids tooth brushes. don't separate them from their family. it's all of those kind of things, setting minimum standards. it's a sign of the times i guess that we have to pass a bill like this. >> specifically, what does your bill do? >> it is a whole series of things. the first is there has to be some kind of official finding that a child is with a trafficker as opposed to their family before families can be separated so the basic principle is families stay together. children stay with their parents. it sets minimum standards for things like size of the space, humanitarian treatment, the kinds of things i mentioned.
diapers, tooth brushes. those kinds of things. it also restricts for profit facilities being the ones that handle children. there are others. it's basically treat kids right. like i say, it is the kind of thing you should never have to pass legislation for. we passed a major bill a couple weeks ago with the funding and then people in maine said how do you know they'll use this in the proper way? this bill is really the answer to that question. >> secretary acosta resigned on friday due to his handling of the jeffrey epstein matter. you called for his resignation but you also voted to confirm him despite there being discussion at the hearings about epstein and news reports as well and acosta's handling of the case. why did you vote to confirm him? >> because at the time i thought his qualities as secretary of labor outweighed the questions. and they weren't -- this is 2020
hindsight. we didn't have anything like the detailed reporting we have now. you know, i'm always hesitant to make a decision when i don't have all of the facts. we have a lot more facts today about that decision, particularly that it was kept secret from the victims in violation of federal law. the judge just ruled on that this past february, not two years ago. ironically, mr. acosta was a pretty decent secretary of labor. i found him responsive and thoughtful. this incident, when we found out all the details, i thought, how can he possibly lead this department, particularly because the department has jurisdiction over trafficking issues? >> senator, your state has a considerable number of recently arrived immigrants now living in maine and places like portland and auburn, maine. over the weekend, the president of the united states, i'm sure you're familiar with the tweet, basically said to people like
those people i just mentioned, get the hell out of our country. go back to where you belong. i'm wondering, in your mind what do you think that does to the dialogue, the every day dialogue and feelings of people in maine, people in america, actually, about this issue? >> well, it inflames the worst of our instincts. you know, this is a dark cloud that goes through the united states history and heretofore we've had presidents that tried to tamp down racism and prejudice and bias and anti-immigrant bias. now we've got a president that is throwing a match on the flame that really is unfortunate. the first thought i had when i saw that was robert m. welsh in the army mccarthy hearings. at long last, have you no decency, sir? i mean, it just is sort of, you keep saying this is the end of the line, but it never is.
particularly a guy whose mother was an immigrant, his grandparents were immigrant, his wife is an immigrant. his first wife was an immigrant, i think first or second. i'm not sure which one ie ivanka was. but to say go back to your country, everyone in america is from somewhere else except the native americans. come on. these people, go back to your country, one born in cincinnati, born in detroit. it's just, you know, i guess i go back to robert m. welsh, have you no decency, sir? >> senator king, i really appreciate your legislation, your proposed legislation, stop cruelty to migrant children act. but it seems to me the trump administration is trying to leverage the crisis at the border in order to change laws that are on the books. how do you -- how do we tackle the question of immigration in the united states, kind of distangle it from the stuff that we're dealing with with the trump administration and grapple with the true issues in front of us? >> well, having been on the
front lines of this particular discussion a year ago on immigration, i can tell you that one of the problems is the administration never quite tells you what they want. and when they do, it's always a list that's impossible. if they would sit down and negotiate in good faith, i think everybody agrees that we need to revise and update our immigration laws. in 2013 the senate passed a comprehensive immigration bill with 67 votes. two-thirds. who would have ever thought it? we can do something like that today, i think, but the administration always moves the goal post. mike rounds and i had a bipartisan bill last year that dealt with dreamers and the wall. we were heading for over 60 votes, and the white house pulled the plug the night before. so it can be done, but it means the white house has to actually negotiate in good faith, which so far they haven't been willing to do. like i said, everybody agrees, a, we need to do something about borders. b, we need to talk about the
whole comprehensive immigration. we need to talk about the 11 million people who are here, who are dreamers, all of those issues. but there has to be an honest give and take. >> senator, you are on the intelligence committee. there's been reporting in recent days the president is looking to oust the director of intelligence, dan coates. i want to get your reaction to that. do you think the president is being well served by his intelligence and military advisers? >> the answer to your second question is, yes. i think he is getting straight advice, because i know these people. i just asked that question of the nominee to be the head of the joint chiefs of staff last week. he answered as i knew he would. he is going to give his best professional military advice. he's not going to be intimidated. i think something to be emphasized here is if you push people out for telling you what you don't want to hear, you're the one that ultimately is going to suffer from that decision. i know dan coates well. i served on the intelligence committee with him. he's a man of integrity. he retired from the senate. he took this job as a public
service and he has rendered a public service with integrity and honor and i hope he continues to do so. it would be a mistake for the president to let somebody go who has such a serious commitment to the public interest and a commitment to telling the truth, which is what the intelligence agencies are assigned to do. >> all right. senator angus king, thank you very much. good luck with the legislation. we appreciate your being on this morning. >> thank you. it is time now for final thoughts of the morning. ten seconds or less. sum up the day. mike? >> well, it's -- i'm sorry to inject this note of depression i guess but it's depressing to realize we have a president of the united states who literally wakes up every day seemingly with the intent to further divide this country on racial lines. >> you know we have to choose sides. you can't play the middle. it's either you're for a new america or you're going to
double down on the old. you have to choose. which side are you on? answer that question today. >> president trump has clearly had second thoughts about his racist tweets and tweeted a few more times today defending them. lindsey graham on fox this morning did encourage him to aim higher and said they are american citizens. we'll see if any other republicans have a stronger response. >> all right. i have to say, mika, i'm going to be looking today at mitt romney, ben sass, other republicans in the past who have had the courage to speak out. these are not the words of an american president we heard over the weekend. these are the words of david duke, klans members, and white nationalists, neo nazis. they know it. they know it. they need to condemn it today. >> and i'm heading out to iowa today. i'll be talking to vice president joe biden about the focus of his campaign, how he stays at the top of the polls, what he plans to do for the next debate, and what issues he is focusing on. i look forward to my
conversation with joe biden today. we will bring you the full interview tomorrow on "morning joe." and that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. thanks so much, mika and joe. good morning. this morning democrats on all sides from speaker pelosi on down are officially calling out president trump for a string of tweets that appear to single out four democratic congresswomen of color. you know who he is not calling out or you know who is not calling him out, his fellows in the republican party. in these tweets, the president criticized the women, saying they were telling the people of the united states how to run their government. he then told them to go back to the, quote, crime-infested places they came from. this morning president trump went one step further, tweeting that lawmakers should apologize to the country and to him instead of the other way around. by the way, even though the president suggested the