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tv   Andrea Mitchell Reports  MSNBC  July 25, 2019 9:00am-10:01am PDT

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introducing an easier way to move with xfinity. it's just another way we're working to make your life simple, easy, awesome. go to xfinity.com/moving to get started. . that discuss it for this hour of msnbc live. i'll see you tomorrow morning on "today." i'm not sure who is in d.c. kristen welker is here. d.c. in new york. >> thank you so much. right now on 80 andrea mitchell reports." the russians are coming. robert mueller's clear warning against an attack on our election, past and future. plus despite resistance and republican in action in
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congress. >> what we see an attempt as they are doing as we sit here. and they expect to do it during the next campaign. >> reporter: but this white house and the ma support leader refuse to allow these bills to come to the floor. >> that to me is not making our country safer. >> pressuring pelosi, facing a divided caucus and pressure from her own judiciary committee chairman. what will nancy pelosi do about impeachment? >> it's about the congress, the constitution and the courts and we are fighting the president on all in the courts. the facts and the law. that's what matters. not politics, not partisanship, just patriotism. and power of the people, puerto ricans celebrating after their massive protests force the embattled governor to resign. >> reporter: these protesters have waited for word of this resignation all day and they just heard it, seconds ago. all that pent-up frustration for the last several weeks is now
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spilling into the streets of san jua juan. >> and good day, everyone, i'm andrea mitchell in new york. the morning after robert mueller's testimony, all eyes are on nancy pelosi, the speaker of the house has complete control over members of her caucus including judiciary jerry nadler can get their way and proceed to impeachment hearings. if only because they say it would strengthen their leverage with the courts to get critical witnesses to testify like white house counsel don mcgahn, president trump and their advisers are saying the mueller testimony as a complete victory for them, confidence the impeachment threat is now over. joining me now, nbc white house correspondent kristen welker in new york. a former fbi against director in the countercombel jens division
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and joyce vance, a former attorney and an assistant attorney general and msnbc analyst phil rucker, white house bureau chief at the new york post. welcome all. the day after mueller, a victory lap at the white house, premature or not, so, rucker, let's take us through where nancy pelosi is right now, where the caucus is the morning after. >> andrea, well, the caucus is divided right now. have you an impatient impeachment caucus within that democratic caucus. they want to begin now with these impeachment proceedings. pelosi is trying to hold off to buy some time. she said yesterday she did not want to go down the impeachment road until she has the best hand possible. >> that requires getting through a couple of court decisions. for example, they want to bring don mcgahn, the former white house counsel to testify publicly before congress about those examples of possible obstruction of justice that were in the mueller report. that's one of many steps that pelosi wants to take before
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making a final decision about whether to proceed with impeachment. >> and kristen welker, the house is about to go out as soon as today. they have to vote on the budget, on the debt ceiling, which is this remarkable agreement that they've achieved. everybody wanted to avoid a fiscal showdown right now, the president for his reasons and the secretary of the treasury, certainly, and the house and senate. they came together. we will not have a fiscal crisis unless something unexpected happens until after the 2020 election. the president, is he premature in celebrating, avoiding impeachment? that is the way he is certainly spinning mueller's testimony? >> i think it's an important question, andrea. it's just not clear now. one thing is certain, he is declaring victory. ki tell you, we were an 94 half into that testimony yesterday and his legal team started texting to essentially start saying democrats are fought delivering that knockout blow that they were looking for. what is clear and phil makes this point so well, is that it doesn't add fuel to the
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impeachment discussion. so, of course, the process continues, nancy pelosi made that very clear. president trump is a bottom line kind of guy. so he sees that yesterday. we saw him do that when the report came out. now, in terms of substance, there were some moments in which mueller did say things that were problematic for the president. he said it was problematic to praise wikileaks, for example, he said his report did not exonerate on issues of obstruction. those are issues democrats will continue to focus on. for his part, president trump will focus on the bottom line. that's what we are seeing from the top leaders at the white house. they were pretty exuberant yesterday. >> you can make the point the democrats failed in a way, they put all their hopes on dramatic presentation on robert mueller and have for months. they let william barr set the table and create a new narrative, a false narrative if you will and the president
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piling on, all these months have gone by, we rarely heard anything to rebut that. >> that brief nine-minute statement from robert mueller. you worked for him, there were plenty of warnings to the democrats that he is not as tough and sharp as he had been six years ago when he last testified. his 89th testimony before congress and they relied too much on robert museum tore dramatize this very dry report you could argue and sell impeachment or sell the narrative you know to the american people that this president needed to be challenged. >> i'm sure many democrats today are questioning whether or not this was the effective way to go. and i wonder how much they truly understood that the aging process for mueller and his delivery as a messenger. but, look, if you look at the facts and the findings, you see some scary things and, yes, the messenger might have not been the best deliverer of that
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message, but it's in some ways, it's almost stronger coming from a man who just relies on the facts and what were the facts we heard yesterday? from a national security perspective alone, both the first session and the intel session had severe warnings for us. we heard about a cast of criminals around this president, a litany of liars that just kept lying during the investigation. why is that a national security issue? because russian and foreign powers as we heard in the second session like that resettivity. they want to feel welcome when they interfere with us. what i heard yesterday is this president and the people around him wouldn't even qualify for a background investigation in security clearance to work at the starbucks at fbi headquarters, yet, these people were running a campaign and running the country. that's what america should be focused on. >> one of the criticisms of the hearing and of, frankly, mueller
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was, first of all, why didn't he push the subpoena? because he acknowledged that there were misstatements in the few questions that the president answered fully, the written questions and that for more than a year, they felt this vital testimony from the president, which was so important to them, for more than a year, it was dangled and basically the president's lawyers, the white house lawyers ran out the clock on them. joyce vance, was that a mistake in the mueller strategy? >> you know, it's interesting how mueller discussed that yesterday, andrea, he talked about the balance between collecting evidence and having sufficient time and it's clear that mueller for reasons that i don't fully understand felt tremendous time pressure, felt that he had to deliver there investigation in what amounted to record time for a special or an independent counsel. many of those investigations linger for years, but mueller told us that he told his folks to exit. what i think i heard yesterday
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is that mueller believed he had sufficient evidence of obstruction without questioning the president. mueller believed that the proof of intent, which is why he wanted the interview, was already there and anyone who reads volume 2 sees it laid out very clearly for multiple occasions. at the end of the day, it sounds like he didn't want to take the time for the court battles, which could have been, frankly, a couple of years and decided to let it go. whether or not that's good judgment, i think we'll see in hindsight as democrats move forward. >> and one of the other weaknesses, joyce, was that he didn't push back against conspiracy theories that a lot of the republicans deposited. the democrats then didn't use their time to rebut and try to fact check, real time fact check some of the false statements that the republican members. let's show a little bit of that. >> in 2016, the fbi did something they probably haven't done before.
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they spied on two american citizens associated with the presidential campaign. >> you didn't follow the special counsel regulations. it clearly says, write a confidential report about decisions reached. nowhere in here does it say write a report about decisions that weren't reached. volume 2 of this report was not authorized under the law to be written. >> either steele made this whole thing up and there were never any russians telling him of this vast criminal conspiracy that you didn't find or russians lied to steele. >> so, elliot, you worked on the hill. jim jordan from the very get-go saying that there was spying. spying is a loaded word. these were fisa authorized court ordered searches of someone, carter page, who had previously been cited in previous investigations in criminal trials involving connections to the russians and have visited russia repeatedly and had been
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under under surveillance long before donald trump thought he was going to run for president. >> so i don't know if it would have been a wise strategy for either a witness or the majority in a congressional committee to push back on conspiracy theories that are not rooted. in fact, many of which have been disproven by the independent inspector general of the justice department who looked into a number of these questions. if that had happened what we would have degenerated into is a critical congressional hearing, which is a shouting match and dualing allegations, where no one seems to come out on top. i think the problem with all of this. it stems from the criticism of robert mueller's appearance or tone oh or demeanor is generally this is what happens in the age of instagram and viral videos. this is how people view congressional hearings, where, in fact, we had testimony from a credible witness. you don't have to agree with him. he's a credible witness saying that number 1 hostile foreign
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actors intended to interfere in our system of elections. number two, a presidential campaign was willing to accept that help. number three, a sitting president of the united states sought to obstruct an investigation into these things. now, again, we can disagree as to where to go from here, as to whether it ends in impeachment for falls flat. but that's what the testimony was. i don't think it was worth getting into fighting the conspiracy theories and the evidence is now on the record. it's now up to the congress or the justice department what to do. >> what is the chances of getting mcgahn as the last remaining vehicle for a big star testimony? >> i think they're good. we heard chairman nadler yesterday say they expected the go to court on friday. we've seen the courts previously have a willingness to expedited these sorts of squabbles that have gone on as people have tried to pierce the veil that the white house has attempted to put up over anyone that's ever
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been associated with it. i think we will hear don mcgahn testify in front of congress. the question will be whether it will be public or private. democrats have to push for a public hearing. mcgahn is as you say their last chance to bring to life the facts that are related in the mueller report. >> but the clock is also ticking. kristen, that they're leaving for recess now, the senate last week, articles of impeachment will start in the house. they will come back in september. then you are getting into a series of debates and it's too close to 2020. isn't it? >> the clock matters, andrea. and it is very close to 2020. because once we come back, that's where the focus is going to be on and i think that does complicate any efforts to move forward with an impeachment inquiry. >> kristen welker. so good to see you, thank you very much. >> so good to see you. >> thanks all. and we have breaking news today
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from the justice department. a new directive from attorney general bill barr to reinstate executions of federal death penalties. prisoners for the first time in nearly two decades, pete williams joins me, pete, why now? >> reporter: well, attorney general barr says it's time to restore the death penalty for the state of victims and their families, under both attorneys general have approved seeking the death penalty, no execution have been carried out in the federal system since 2003 for a couple of reasons. one is court fights over the lethal injection protocol, whether it's constitutional. whether it causes unnecessary suffering and then concern about that protocol. you remember president obama in 2014 ordered a review of the lethal injection system after that notoriously botched execution in oklahoma using two relatively untested drugs. so to get around that problem, attorney general barr has directed the bureau of prisons to use, to scrap that three
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judge protocol and use just a single drug, pentobarbitol, a sedative, long used to euthanize animals and three states have used it and strong doses to carry out executions. and it's also been now to be used in the federal system. so what barr has directed st. bureau of prisons to start this protocol and in response, the prison bureau scheduled the execution of five prisoners, begining in december, continuing in january. all of whom carried out particularly brutal crimes that victimize the killed children, four of the five also killed adults. now, of course this goes against the national trend, which has been against the death penalty. the last year, for example, saw a near record lows of seeking the death penalty and carrying out executions. but barr said, this is what the system demands, that this is the way to carry out justice for
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these victims. >> and just briefly, just to avoid any confusion there. our states primarily in the south that still have the death penalty for state convicts for those adjudged guilty of capital crimes in state courts. >> so this is only in the federal system. >> right. >> so, for example, if are you charged in a state. even if the state doesn't have the death penalty but you are convicted in the federal system and you go at the time death penalty, then you go on federal death row. barr says all these five inmate versus exhausted their legal appeals. there are 60 inmates now on federal death row. >> timothy mcvey i believe is the last in the federal system. >> not the last. among those only three. only three that were ever carried out in the modern era of the death penalty of the federal system. >> pete williams, storeer of all knowledge, thank you so much, pete. coming up, did robert mueller's testimony change the
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calculus for those impeachment proceedings that democrats, some democrats want? we will talk to congresswoman jackie speier joining me next. o jackie speier joining me next. whoa. travis in it made it. it's amazing. oh is that travis's app? it's pretty cool, isn't it? there's two of them. they're multiplying. no, guys, its me. see, i'm real. i'm real! he thinks he's real. geico. over 75 years of savings and service.
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would you agree that it was not a hoax that the russians were engaged if trying to impact our election? absolutely. it was not a hoax.
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the indictments we returned against the russians, two different ones, were substantial in their scope. >> robert mueller trying to sound the alarm about russia's continuing threat to our elections. that did not stop the republican senate meters from blocking votes on two security measures wednesday. many democrats now worry mueller's appearance was not the spark they needed to gather support for impeachment inquiry. democratic congresswoman jackie speier joins me right now. thank you so much. i know it's been a long day and night and morning for you. but i want to ask about the caucus yesterday. there are some reports that chairman nadler from judiciary and speaker pelosi disagreed in the caucus last night as to whether to move now to impeachment some sort of frame for impeachment that could create articles of impeachment. can you shed some light on that? >> well, i think what we have here is a chair of a committee that is prepared to take up an
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impeachment inquiry and is going to follow the lead of his speaker as are all of us. now, many of us have come forward, indicating that we want to see an impeachment inquiry started. and i think the leader, frankly, is coming closer to that way of thinking. i mean, these cases of obstruction of justice are horrendous and under any other set of circumstances, the president would be indicted. but for the department's guidelines that requires that no sitting president can be indicted, which is something that is not in statute. it's not something passed by congress. it's just a justice department guideline. >> but is the clock running out? are you going on recess today or tomorrow for six weeks and then you are into the fall, you are into 2020. it's getting awfully close to the election to even start holding these hearings. >> there is no question that the clock is not with us.
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but whether it's the clock or polls, it is not for us to make a determination as to whether to move forward with an inquiry based on those kind of factors. it should be based on the law. it should be based on whether or not these are actions that rise to the level of an impeachable offense. >> do you think that the mueller testimony was somewhat disappointing in that at least in the morning before he became little more animated over the russian issue in the intelligence committee. in the morning he was halting, sometimes couldn't hear. he clearly was diminished from the bob mueller that a lot of us remember and it said the republican narrative that this was you know the trump haters, the staff guys that the fbi and it's doj worn running this thing and said he really wasn't in charge. he didn't seem as familiar as he should have been with his own report? >> so let's point out first and foremost, robert mueller is a
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republican. he is a decorated veteran with a purple heart and a bronze star, that he has served in many administrations, most of which are republican, as fbi director and u.s. attorney and this is at the xenith of his career. he came back in service at the request of rod rosenstein. you know at 74, almost 75, he is not what he was 20 years ago. i don't think yen any of us are. but that doesn't change the document or the veracity or the compelling nature of what is in that document. and that was what we were trying to highlight yesterday. and i think he made a very compelling case that, one, russia is here, they haven't left. and they will be moving with a vengeance in 2020. unless we want our election hijacked by the russians, maybe some in the senate want that. certainly, it sounds like the president wants that, because that's what guaranteed him his election in 2016.
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so i am deeply troubled by our unwillingness to sake seriously the impact this will have on election security. >> understood. and with full acknowledgement of his extraordinary record and i'm one of the big admirers. i do think we tends to focus too much on the optics of it all. the political reality is that you need to light a fire under the american people if you will reach the pelosi standards of having public support and bipartisan support for an impeachment inquiry. finally, do you think it was a mistake not to push for a subpoena and prolong the probe and go after getting the president as a witness since mueller acknowledgeed that he did not fully tell the truth even in the written answers? >> so not only did he not tell the truth in some of the written answers, in many of the answers, in 32 of them, he said he didn't have recollection. then he never answered one question on obstruction of justice. it was a total evasion of what he was asked to do.
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and, yes, i think he should have been suspended. >> jackie speier, it's great to see you. thank you very much. >> thank you, andrea. coming up, sealed off. the mystery about the fake presidential seal behind the real president. you are watching andrea mitchell reports. stay with us. tchell reports. stay with us ♪ as your life grows, so do your needs. ♪ and with bank of america and merrill, the benefits you get can grow, too. as a preferred rewards member, you can enjoy priority service and exclusive discounts... so your growing life can be more rewarding, too. ♪ what would you like the power to do? ♪
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president trump says the russian investigation in robert mueller's testimony will ultimately hurt him and help democrats in 2020. yesterday we sue his attempt to spin yesterday's hearing as a political win even if it meant contradicting what mueller said. >> reporter: what do you say to robert mueller -- >> let me say something. you always have a question. >> reporter: a white house aide. >> my white house aide? what about his aides? what about mueller's aides? >> reporter: your answers were generally untruthful. what do you say to that? >> he didn't say that at all. are you untruthful when you edit -- you are untruthful. when you ask that question, you are untruthful. >> well, i am joined now by ruth marcus, deputy editorial page
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editor for "the washington post" and maesha taking on the president for the pbs news hour one of those who has challenged him in the clip you just heard. you were there, he was pushing back against everything and misstating what mueller said in terms of mueller's correction to the question in the afternoon when he came back and said he said is not correct. ei believe misstated what that had all l actually involved. >> exactly. from the very beginning when president trump walked out to the white house lawn, he started misleading what mueller had said and started talking about the fact that there was no defense to the report and wasn't contradicting anything that he said. robert mueller said he did not exonerate the president. they weren't a group of 12 angry democrats. in fact, his people were exemplary and they were not asked about political affiliations. then, of course, eput the question to him that mueller said he was generally untruthful
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in his answers submitted to the team and white house aides and campaign aides lied and that was impeding the mueller investigation. the president pushed back and said that's completely untruthful. we all know that's what robert mueller said. i think what the president is feeling is an exorbitant amount of frustration that people are still talking about the mueller investigation. if he had his way and his personal lawyer had his way, the doj had his way, robert mueller would never have testified at all. >> at the same time "the washington post" brought to our attention, which is the eagle eyes at the washington u washington post noticed at that youth forum, the turning point group, the seal projected on the rear projection behind the president of the united states is not the presidential seal. the one on his podium was. the one behind him was quite a parody. it had an eagle with two heads. instead of what the eagle should have been holding in its mouth that they were golf clubs as well as a batter that translate
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fareed spanish into 45 is a puppet. apparently a spokesperson for this conservative group of teens told the "post" it was a last minute mistake by the audio visual team. how does that happen? >> you can't make this stuff up. it's funny to laugh at and it's hard to know whether the white house is responsible for this gaffe and obviously the presidential seal, itself, was correct or whether it's a failure on the part of the group. but it really does as much as we want to get a chuck him about it and move on, but it does raise a bigger point, which is the general sloppiness of this administration and its allies. not just when it comes to stating fact as the previous discussion with the amaesh exposed but also just in terms of its generalized vetting. we have press releases that go out with words misspelled.
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i'm not even talking about the spelling of presidential tweets. more important than that, a lot of the background vetting that's been done. so this is an amusing piece that is a part of a bigger and maybe more disturbing pattern. >> at the same time, we were obviously in the middle of this democratic primary. where next week will you have the next two debates. well, corey booker has been going after joe biden. they were both in indianapolis today and let's play booker first. going after joe biden, supposedly and biden responding. >> it is not enough to show up in our communities today with a promise of a better tomorrow. what were you doing five, ten, 15 or 20 years ago to fight for racial justice? don't just tell us you are going to be a champion for our communities when you become president if you haven't been a champion already. >> it's clear that corey booker is going to be tougher on that
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stage and perhaps trying to take the spotlight away from where kamela harris had grabbed the spotlight going after biden. they will, of course, both on to the stage this time around. the other thing is that i should have clarified that biden, it's his turn in indianapolis, went after donald trump. let's watch that. >> and last week he launched a vial racist attack against a sitting member of congress and actually four of them. you know, he rips at families, rips them apart at our borders, he puts children in cages. he is actively working to undo every bit of the progress president obama and i and our administration did and we have to defeat donald trump this time out. we have to. >> and this is the national urban league. this is a very important audience and the larger audience of minority voters and others who care so much about the whole, the fight between the president and the so-called squad last week.
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which has been somewhat consumed by the mueller testimony this week. >> the democratic presidential candidates understand that black voters are really the heart of the democratic party and as a result, it's really a street fight to make sure that whatever candidate is going on the campaign trail is really trying to shore up that base. i have been talking to people about corey booker's campaign. they said he was a candidate with a little identity cries, he was either i love everybody and we should be fought beating up on people or i'm a street fighter from newark and people couldn't understand which one he wanted to be. now what we see is corey booker really taking a page out of senator harris's bock. >> this will be a debate for joe biden. they will all be going after him. >> vice president biden comes into this as a weakened candidate and the example from senator horizarris from the pres debate incentivized others to
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try to take him down and simultaneously to try to raise their own profiles. it may be a starts thmart tacit. it also comes with danger. maybe things are different in this new trump world we are living in, going on the attack is view as a benefit. but the history of these things has been the benefit of taking someone down and doing the attack doesn't necessarily inure to the attacker. it just benefits others, so it will be fascinating to watch. >> thank you both so much. coming up, safe passage, the new defense secretary taking steps to protect american ships off the coast of iran. stay with us. you are watching andrea mitchell reports on msnbc. msnbc >> so i only pay for what i need. en ihe lottery, got hair plugs, and started working out. and so can you!
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before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tb. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms or if you had a vaccine or plan to. serious allergic reactions may occur. tremfya®. stay clearer. janssen can help you explore cost support options. . well, after six months without a defense secretary, only an acting secretary, his first week on the job we now have a newly confirmed secretary and he is promising against iranian threats in the gulf a week after iran seized a tanker in the strait of hormuz. iran says he will release the tanker if iran release one off the cape of gibraltar earlier this month. joining me an msnbc senior foreign affairs analyst.
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so much going on. the iran escalating crisis. we had the drone which the u.s. took out i should say, not shot down but took out and disabled a week ago, barely a week ago. where does the go now? the iranians will be in vienna, momenting with all the europeans trying to salvage the iran deal? how can it be salvaged with iran out of it and sanctioning all of our allies? >> you asked a good question, where does the go? from the a key in policy making, be careful where you go, you might not get there. on iran, we don't seem to have a coherent objective. >> they withdrew without the next step. >> they didn't think of the confidence and the risk and the president seemed surprised when this is running into some turbulence, some friction. so what the administration is doing is right. they want to protect naval shipping in the gulf. that's the interest of our
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allies, our partners, our competitors, including china, as the president said. they haven't been successful in signing up allies to do this this is the sort of thing the occupation of america can usually do in its sleep, forming coalitions, forming alliances. so far they're struggling. even the uk, it's their ship that is being taken hostage, and the uk is saying they're prepared to put their ships in place. they want europe to be with them. not as a part of our initiative so this is a problem. i think it's good. we have a fully confirmed secretary of defense that got a handle on this. >> at the same time, the president ignoring a large congressional majority. not a veto proof has gone ahead with the arms sales to the saudis, despite the death of khashoggi and bin salman? >> it's gotten a push back, the behavior and the president, he's vetoed this bipartisan
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resolution from congress. that means the arms sales will go forward. that gives the president quite a bit of leverage with the saudis to pick up the phone and say, i'm doing this for you, i'm using my presidential veto for congress. so here's some things i need from you. >> instead what he is doing is glad handing obama bin salman. >> exactly. there seems to be a lot of checks. what's happening, this is a difficult step. every administration struggles with this in the middle east. you have the gcc has -- it makes it hard to build an alliance against iran. they're not divide. they're in proxy conflicts in africa and else. where it's very dangerous. i would encourage them to use the veto without the leverage. without a initiative on yemen, we are working to ends that war, which the u.n. is calling for, the ally, the uae is pulling out
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of yemen. >> right. >> and the minister state for uae had an important op ed saying this is an important time for a diplomatic initiative. i think they want some american dip local massie as he vetos this, he should be on the phone saying we feed things from you. >> call us. it's great to see you. thank you very much. thanks for being here. coming up, american swamp, nbc's katy tur teaming up with what is wrong with american politics. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports." stay with us on msnbc. stay with us on msnbc. vetops for an amazing clean, get the power of mr. clean magic eraser in new disposable sheets.
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we're carvana, and we want to give you the car buying experience you deserve. if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, every day can begin with flakes. it's a reminder of your struggles with psoriasis. but what if your psoriasis symptoms didn't follow you around? that's why there's ilumya. with just 2 doses, a majority of people were clear or almost clear. and over time, even more people were clear or almost clear. all with dosing 4 times a year... after 2 initial doses. plus, ilumya was shown to have similar risks of infections compared to placebo. don't use if you are allergic to ilumya or any of its ingredients. before starting treatment, your doctor should check for tuberculosis and infections. after checking there is no need for routine lab monitoring unless your doctor advises it. ilumya may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. tell your doctor if you have an infection or have symptoms, or if you plan to or have recently received a vaccine. this could be your chance
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to leave your psoriasis symptoms behind. ask your doctor for ilumya today, for a clearer tomorrow. and we do have an update on that story first broken by "the washington post" that we brought to you earlier this hour. the "post" is reporting turning point usa, the conservative group that hosted president trump and showed him in front of a doctored presidential seal has fired the person responsible for displaying that with the double eagles and the golf clubs and everything else. meanwhile, on a more serious note, starting this sunday, no one is getting fired, msnbc is kicking off a four-part
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docu-series, teaming up katy tur and jacob soberoff traveling across the country examining why our american politics is broken and searching for solutions, take a look. >> the of wealth between people has gotten larger and larger and larger over the years. >> sure. >> so the people who truly have the money and the power is a smaller group of people compared to everybody else. >> i am not sure that is true at all. beyond that let's think again. we're also not comparing the system to some pie in the sky ideal. we understand democracy is a messy business and we understand that the best way to hear is a lot of voices. nobody should be shut down. >> you watch any sitcom or news program or turn on your television, period, during an election every ad you see is from an outside group talking about a candidate. >> these ads, in fact, increase voter knowledge of elections, helps them know more about the candidates, how to place them on a scale. >> a lot are completely untrue. >> i don't know that you can say
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that. the question is do you want government making that decision? do you want government making a decision on what is fake news? >> msnbc's katy tur and jacob soboroff joining us now. just talk to us about the idea. i love the title. and the whole idea of the two of you teaming up and going across country. >> i'm in the show, too. i swear to god. >> she edited the clip. >> i know she did. >> insidious. what we wanted to do was figure out, you know, everybody says washington doesn't work. i don't trust lawmakers. the majority of americans don't trust that washington will do the right thing, which is wild. but we wanted to find out why. why aren't they working in americans' best interests? why does it seem like you elect an official who makes big promises and they go there and suddenly those promises evaporate and they don't do anything. >> does it have anything to do with campaign finance? >> it has a ton to do with campaign finance. >> money, money. >> you know how it is.
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when you're out across the country you talk to people and say what is your every day life like it is nothing like what the politicians in washington describe every day life to be. what is the reason for that chasm between the every day american life and how politicians perceive it in washington? you hit the nail on the head. the amount of money spent in politics, and this is the subject of our first episode, is obscene. we're trying to take it out of d.c. and look at it in real life to have a better understanding. we go to arizona, sunniest state in the union, no place sunnier and hotter on an every day basis but virtually nobody relatively speaking has solar power on their homes and the reason is a per verse amount of dark money dumped into the system in arizona, looking at some of that right there, that has prevented solar power from proliferating across the state. we dive deep into it. >> the money goes not only to policies but elected officials. i was talking to ken buck from colorado, famous from yesterday's hearing where he asked robert mueller if the president could be indicted when he leaves office and mueller said yes. he had a very frank conversation
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with me and told me he, personally, was very frustrated in congress because gridlock is welcomed for a lot of lawmakers. a lot of lawmakers say i'd rather be sitting here fighting and wringing our hands and not doing anything because if i do something, if i pass a bill, guess what? special interests are going to spend against me. big donors are going to spend against me. i won't be able to run successfully for re-election. >> from my experience money is time. they spend inordinate amounts of time raising money. >> they don't even like it. it's an open secret that is what they have to do but it's the only way they're able to stay in office. it is also tied to another episode we do on elections. the amount of money spent in politics makes people feel so disconnected from the system. we are the most famous democracy yet nobody participates in our process. we dive into why that is as well and how it is connected to money. >> sunday night at 9:00 eastern here on -- >> msnbc. >> you have a great feed-in. all my friends. >> we've been friends forever. it is much looser than you see
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regularly on our network and we hope you like it. >> i know we'll love it. we never get sick of you, jacob. thank you very much. coming up, forced out. celebrations in the streets of puerto rico after the governor announces he will resign next week. a report from san juan next right here. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports." from the floor plan... free wi-fi... ...and the price match guarantee. so with hilton there is no catch. yeah the only catch is i'm never leaving. no i'm serious, i live here now. book at hilton.com and get the hilton price match guarantee. wake up! there's a lot that needs to get done today. small things. big things. too hard to do alone things. day after day, you need to get it all done. and here to listen and help you through it all is bank of america. with the expertise and know-how you need to reach that blissful state of done-ness. so let's get after it.
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puerto ricans were dancing in the streets early this morning after their embattled governor finally gave in to pressure and agreed to resign effective the end of next week. thousands of protesters were celebrating when the news broke that governor ricardo rossello was stepping down. nbc's gabe gutierrez covered it overnight and joins us from san juan. a lot of excitement there. >> reporter: yes, andrea. good afternoon. this was supposed to be a protest and it has turned into a celebration. there really is a sense of jubilation here after governor ricardo rossello announced his resignation. this had been something that the people here had wanted for nearly two weeks ever since the controversial chat messages have been published. this has been more than a political scandal. i'm joined here by joyce perez. we met just a few minutes ago. >> yes. >> reporter: when we were marching. as the music gets a little louder, perfect timing i guess. why are you here today and why are the events of last night so important for this island? >> the events of last night
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brought everything that was in the dark to light. it gave the people of puerto rico an opportunity to express themselves, for the world to hear us. we believe we were heard. we believe we have the results that we need to turn this island around. and i am here for every victim in hurricane maria. i am here for those that passed away due to hurricane maria. i am here for my family. >> reporter: you were telling me your husband's grandmother, virginia hernandez, if we can put a picture up on the screen. she passed away several months after hurricane maria. she had no electricity and no water. >> that is correct. >> reporter: how difficult was it to go through that? you lost your home during the hurricane. >> we lost our entire home. we slept outdoors for three months in a tent. we got up every single day at 4:00 in the morning to look for gasoline, to look for diesel, to run a generator only for oxygen machines. one day the electricity was not
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working so oxygen machine needed something and everything faulted all at once, the generator, we went out to get gas, and when we returned she had passed away. >> so sorry to hear. >> thank you. >> reporter: thank you for sharing that with us. >> thank you for being here. >> reporter: her story is one of many we have heard. this is an island that finally feels heard. andrea? >> gabe, thank you so much. i hate to end on such a tragic note but it is important. here is stephanie ruhle of course for "velshi and ruhle." >> thank you so much. tragic but people are standing up and demanding more. >> and they're getting it. hello everyone. it is thursday, july 25th. coming up this hour on "velshi and ruhle" new details on specifically how russia is attacking america's elections and what is being done or not done about it. we'll be speaking with congressman jim himes from the

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