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tv   Deadline White House  MSNBC  July 25, 2019 1:00pm-2:00pm PDT

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the words translate to 45 is a puppet. "the washington post" reports the person responsible for what was called a last-minute mistake has been fired. i'm in for ali velshi. "deadline: white house" with nicolle wallace starts right now. hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. message to democrats, this is how you do it. a corrupt leader with miss soj nis tick and intolerant leanings resigned late last night, driven from office by an investigation in the legislature and protests from the people he represented. while many of us were still focused on the takeaways from the mueller hearing, the people of puerto rico took to the streets last night to celebrate. nbc news is reporting crowds in the street which grew almost two weeks calling for the governor to step down immediately erupted cheering puerto rico, puerto
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rico. the island, which was decimated by hurricane maria, and the target of political attacks by donald trump, signaled impeachment could be on the horizon. nbc news has this -- quote, the news came after three attorneys kmised commissioned by the president of puerto rico unanimously found five offenses that constituted grounds for impeachment. of course, an investigation that uncovers offenses that constitute grounds for impeachment has undeniable parallel to calculations being made by washington democrats in the wake of high-profile investigations into donald trump. >> and if we have a case for impeachment, that's the place we have to go. the fact i would like it to be a strong case because it's based on the facts, facts and the law,
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that's what matters. not politics, not partisanship, just patriotism. the stronger our case is, the worse the senate will look for letting the president off the hook. >> rosie perez joins us earlier in the week to talk about puerto rico. >> puerto rico is a mess but the people of port reek aico are no. the government of puerto rico is corrupt. the government of puerto rico is a mess. and to put that on the people makes me so angry. they want things fix. they want justice. this is not a socialist issue. i know that's the hot push-button attack right now. it is not. >> all of this, of course, brings us to ask some uncomfortable questions of the democrats in washington. do you have the stomach for the political fight before you? my colleague joe scarborough weighed in on that. >> i'm dead serious, democrats
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running for the president of the united states, i'm dead serious presidents running the house of representatives, if you want to stop donald trump, it is time to stop fighting by marquess of queensberry rules. it is time to roll up your sleeves and go after him and do whatever it takes to win. if you don't do that, well -- >> you'll see him again. four more years. >> you'll have donald trump four more years. >> i co-sign that, my own two cents. every democrat should travel to puerto rico quickly and insert himself and herself in the political triumph. that is where we start with some of our favorite reporters and friends, with us in washington heidi przybyla. at the stable rick stengel, author of the upcoming book "information wars" and former veteran of the obama administration. and national correspondent for
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"the new york times" magazine and from "the l.a. times" eli stokolses is hit. let me start with you, heather. we have been here for some of the lowest moments of the trump presidency, and some of the human calamities at the border and whatnot. yesterday was a setback for trump but -- and we're going to get to this in this sort of distortion field, they did an end zone dance. i thought the story coming out of puerto rico, it was just as unlikely that corrupt governor would be taken down by a process in the statehouse and protests on the streets. but there is sort of a kernel of that story i wonder if the democrats will try to scale nationally in. >> i think it would be beautiful if they did. i think the scale of the protest was massive. you had one of about every three people on the islands and those are the official counts. others are unreliable. at the same time there's a hole right before the 2018 midterm that showed in fact one out of
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every four americans had protested in some way over the first two years of the trump administration. it's happening here as well, just not in this compressed fashion. also the media climate in puerto rico is much, much different. and i think what happened with the digestion of the mueller report and digestion of the mueller hearing is really -- people could write messages for a long time about media studies. >> what do you mean? let's go there. what are you talking about? >> i just think we have let the terms of the debate, the terms of victory be set by not just television optics and news optics but reality television optics. we let someone who knows more about how to garner attention and make a good moment, which is a reality tnk star marketer, which is the man in the white house right now, we let him decide that if there was not going to be an explosive movement, then mueller was not going doto be successful.
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if it wasn't good tv, it wasn't accurate presentation of the lies, cheating, scandal and betrayal of our country, which is all of the facts laid out. it reminded me of the kavanaugh hearing where you had donald trump saying and i think everybody feeling the first day after dr. ford's testimony, this is a credible and damning portrayal of what happened. >> including donald trump. >> including donald trump. and then kavanaugh just decided and was coached to basically blow up and like chew the scenery as we say in the theater, right, to just act basically. perform his outrage and that turned everything, as if it changed somehow the truth of what we had seen the day before. it's a very sad moment in our democracy that the media is creating these rules and being played by donald trump in a lot of ways. >> you're an expert in disinformation. russian disinformation. but we're consuming a lot of it. i don't know if everyone even
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knows they are. your thoughts on -- just pick up on where heather took us. >> i mean, he's the master of disinformation, donald trump. the same way putin weaponized greefrance in russia and isis weaponiz weaponize grievance among muslims. i remember a mythical time called "tthe '60s, which not everyone remembers here around the table. and the demonstrations for ford increased it. i would be dismayed if there were not more demonstrations. it reminds me of egypt, where the most populous country in the middle east was overthrown day after day by hundreds of thousands of people protesting. that has a lot of power to the media and everybody to see those pictureses every day.
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>> why are you nodding? >> i completely agree. that is a tool in the arsenal of the left and democratic party that they have not used. min i mean, they have shown on a couple of occasions, one being the women's march -- >> which by the way drove donald trump bat bleep crazy. >> yes, and the gun march after parkland. they have shown they can do this. they have the numbers to do this. i think one very powerful march on washington, i don't know when it is or what the gathering cry would be, could be an extremely powerful thing as we saw in puerto rico. i think there is an analogy here which people forget but in 2010, the single biggest demonstration that the right had during the obama years, remember the glenn beck thing in like 2010. >> middle of the summer. >> like august 28th. i happened to be writing a story on this so i remember exactly. they got probably close to about a million people around the mall. it was a pretty memorable moment. it was the one cohesive moment
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that the resistance to barack obama had and it was a precursor to the midterms, which was a disaster. >> i want to push you on this because i think what joe scarborough was saying, i think the point he was trying to make and he knows donald trump is hit him where it hurts. we're still fighting last century's battles or in politics dog years, the 2008 sort of political fights that used to be had. we're fighting against somebody who cares about the size of their crowds, about being stupid. only someone being afraid to be called stupid tweets i'm a stable genius and his friends confirm there's a lot of -- not self-awareness, that would be going too far, but recognition. the thing that made him the most upset as a primary candidate was being caught without having no idea what the nuclear triad, is
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that from my vcr? and i know that's gross. but it questions his wealth, questioning the size of his report and his intelligence. so joe's point is hit him where the crowd gets under his skin. a crowd bigger than his does that. >> it's true and fairly obvious, maybe when the democrats have one person to gather around, that he or she can knockofocus donald trump and how to do that. right now there's a lot of focus inter-muehrly. but you're right. no democrats from what i can tell -- or not a lot of democrats have gone to like ohio, lordstown, for instance and highlighted the things donald trump supporters were very excited about, him bringing jobs back and highlighting the fact the economy is not helping anyone bring much to the heart of his base. >> the other piece of the port leakio story, and this didn't get as much attention earlier in the week, there was an investigation into the legislature and that investigation found i think five
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offenses that would or could be impeachable. the combination of what you're saying, uprising from the governor's constituents and legislative process that tapped into that. >> think how much bigger the united states is than the island of puerto rico. >> but think how much crappier life was. >> the comparison works in some ways but i think if you step back and look at this, nancy pelosi saying that this has to be about the facts and not the politics. if this were just about the facts, they would be probably already down the road of impeachment. it's all about the politics. it's all about the fact in this country no matter what donald trump does he has 40% of the country and republican in the senate with him. that's the reality nancy pelosi understands. we can all debate and the democrats are debating right now what the best way to go after donald trump and beat him, but there are a lot of people that believe this is the reality in the senate, this is the reality in washington. you talk about a president who values crowds. he measures things in black and white, wins and losses.
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you go down the road of impeachment and he's not removed from office, will he count that as a win and paint it as a loss for democrats going right into the election. there are a lot of people who look at this, i have been on the campaign trail too watching democratic candidates and people who are asking questions are mostly not asking questions about impeachment about donald trump and the investigations. they want to talk about other things, pocketbook issues. maybe that is representative of the whole country or maybe just people who go to democratic events. i don't know. but there is die bait on this and donald trump feels secure because he doesn't believe he will be removed from office as a result of these investigations. he may feel less secure when he looks at 2020 depending on who the matchup is. i think that's the debate democrats are having, pelosi and a lot of other folks, thinking impeachment is just setting us up. there might be principle and right thing to do and enough fact pattern to go after that but at the end of the day if he's not removed from office, we're just sort of wasting our time. let's focus on the election. >> heidi, there's a line in "the
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american president" when annette bening's character screams at her boyfriend, on election day people care about what i tell them to care about. what happened when soeters do nothing but ask questions to the 23 democrats attend town hall events? why are democrats so convinced nothing can change? >> i think they felt defeated, going back to the mueller report the way this rolled out with barr setting the narrative or having their hands tied, or at lowest felt like they were, for several weeks while that narrated and baked into the entire populous. now that we have after all of this testimony only one democrat who came out afterwards and said she's for impeachment. it didn't really move things in terms of the broader public or within her own caucus. that is causing i think a lot of morale problems within the democratic caucus. i know for a fact from speaking with democrats they thought it
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would be their moment with mueller weeks before. and as time went on, kind of that entire crescendo went down to just a murmur. so that i think is one big demoralizing aspect for the democrats. but i don't think they have given up on trying to draw the public's attention to the core issues like health care that democrats want to run on. on the contrary, they actually have the strategy for this. when you talked about lordstown, for instance, i reported a couple of months ago the dnc is actually collecting data on each and every one of these promises trump made in very specific communities like lordstown or like to the harley davidson workers out in missouri. and when he arrives back in those communities to talk about keeping america great again, the democrats will be ready to drop that data with whoever their nominee is, to be able to be use that. the question at hand right now, nicolle, i think for the democrats, the big political
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question for them, is now that the house clearly is not at least emmantly going to move on impeachment, how is the 2020 field going to handle this? because, yes, while eli is right they're not talking about it that much as they are about other issues. when you drill down into the polling data, a majority of democrats did and do want impeachment. what kind of backlash is there going to be now that they feel like there's a bookend here? mueller's testified, nothing's happening. what's the fallout going to be on the campaign trail? how are the democrats going to handle it? we've got a debate next week. may be a good indication. >> so your point, heidi, here's how elizabeth warren has responded around these questions. i read the mueller report the day it came out. three things were clear, hostile foreign government attacked our 2016 election, trump welcomed their help and trump obstructed the investigation into that attack. i agree with the naacp it's time to begin impeachment. julian castro wrote, the president broke the law.
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mueller's testimony underlined what was already clear. the president of the united states broke the law, would be under criminal indictment if he didn't hold that office. he's not above the law. congress should begin prae impeachment proceedings. then we have the divide that dan balls is reporting, we are left with one option, the presidency 2020 election. case closed, we're done. do you think there will still be a dreambeat of stories of division within nancy pelosi's caucus or is the case closed? >> for now the case is closed on impeachment. you heard that from the speaker herself last night when she said they would continue with the investigations and she even outlined the court proceedings they're looking to and new avenues of investigative probing. for instance shed the muell sai mueller report did not dive into the president's financial dealings although mueller said on the stand the president was looking to profit during his campaign. so i think they will try their
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darnedest to push some of these witnesses like don mcgahn to testify. >> to what end? >> betting he will be a better witness but they're not going to get their aha moment, they're not. these numbers have kind of dpeled and solidified and pelosi is not going to move until she's got a number in her caucus she feels comfortable with. right now that number is 95. we know because a couple of democrats forced a resolution a week or two ago. 95 democrats voted in support of the impeachment proceedings. that's not a majority. until she gets there, the members are going to be leading her. >> heather, this feels like a really, really, really smart strategy. every one of the 23 democrats is you polling 15 to 20 points ahead of trump and democrats are sure they got this. they're sure like we got this. going to get him out. statute of limitations won't expire, fdny could still charge
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him and campaign finance case, what is he called, unindicted co-conspirator. and if they wanted to u.s. attorneys out of d.c. could charge him where he's, what, accused of ten acts of obstruction of justice. and anything else that the justice department turns up they can indict on. it's an awesome strategy, if they're 20 points up in every poll, one of 23 candidates could end up being the nominee. >> but they're not. >> so he can win. >> of course he can win. a, robert mueller said yesterday they're still at it today. and it seems like every couple of weeks we learn more and more about the russian disinformation campaign being more effective than we thought. there was a sense of like oh, this happened and some people maybe liked a few things on facebook, no, it had demonstrable effect of suppressing of vote of who? those who worked their tails off, democratic base and even independents ray radicalized
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into the democratic party t will never be republican against because of donald trump. they delivered to the democrats an historic 2018 election. they delivered the biggest protest this country has ever seen not once but twice. the second's women's march was bigger than the first. and this democratic party has done what exactly with their historic caucus in the house? has done what exactly with the historic amount of passion that's being felt in the dpr grassroots? nothing. i worry about the impact pelosi's tight control, not to mention her war against some of the rising stars in her party, is having on the enthusiasm of the voters who are going to be responsible for making calls, putting out yard signs donating, moving people, talking to their neighbors. that's what democracy is about. that's what the democrats need always. and they're really risking it. it's very worsened to me. of course donald trump can win. of course he could.
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>> but the whole point of starting with the puerto rican demonstration -- >> are you playing magazine editor? >> i'm connecting the dots with it. >> i'm glad someone does! the audience -- hence producers -- the audience for the demonstrations is not just donald trump. the audience is nancy pelosi and democratic caucus. if nancy pelosi saw a million people on the mall out every day, that's -- that would change her mind. how many people in the last two days have said, including nancy pelosi in the lincoln line public sentiment is everything. public sentiment is demonstration of hundreds of thousands and millions of people around the country, that would persuade him. >> that would get more local here. when nancy pelosi says we will -- we would proceed with impeachment if we had the facts. the logical followup is you don't feel like you have the facts now. i honestly don't know what she would say. she's making a political calculation but what she really means is we don't have the votes. >> to be fair, that's part of
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her job. everybody knows by position, i will vote for the democratic nominee but i hope it works out. heidi przybyla, thank you for spending time with us. after the break, new polling shows only one -- one democrat running for president beats donald trump in the battleground state of ohio. we will go inside the 2020 primary contest next. also ahead, raur, are you listening? it may be the most impassioned moment about robert mueller's testimony. his stark warning of the ongoing threat posed by russia to our democracy. opinion brand buster from build the wall to drain the swamp, donald trump failed on both of those campaign promises. it's worse than that though, the swamp is actually overflowing on his watch. all of those stories coming up. . ...but you're not, because you have e*trade, whose tech isn't complicated. it helps you understand the risk and reward potential on an options trade. don't get mad. get e*trade. would shakespeare have chosen just "some pens?"s.
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donald trump, can he run? i'm not sure, but he can't hide, no matter what happens on impeachment, he still faces the risk of his presidency, the 2020 election. the democrats fighting to replace him have another debate next week and joe biden maintains his lead atop every poll. but when it comes to beating trump, this has to be the one that matters and has biden beating trump. out of quinnipiac, the state of ohio, and the state that picked every election since 1960 -- heather is grimacing at me, oath biden beat bernie sanders, elizabeth warren and booker. i know the democrats don't need ohio. but it's one of those bellwether
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things as you're saying in short of the shallowness of some of -- i won't blame the media, my hour sort of, of coverage, people look at democrats go with ohio. >> it's not great what happened to the democratic party identity in ohio over the past six years. you lost the manufacturing base, the state has gotten older and whiter and more angry and more attuned to the sort of conservative echo chamber. i have relatives in ohio. it's changed. a lot of people are saying ohio lost us for a long time. that's why you start looking at democratic donors and activists looking at the sun belt states, where you have population that are more democratic. so it doesn't surprise me joe biden in ohio is the only one who is beating trump right now. you look at some other states in arizona, in north carolina, in florida, where you have actually got other people being more competitive, that said the strategy that you were just talking about in terms of, you know, we need to talk about
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2020. we need to bring donald trump's broken promises home, that has to be a part of the democratic story, right. when elizabeth warren talks about pea tatriotism, the probl with 2016 is donald trump took the core message and populism to be upset at corporations and talking about draining the swamp. >> david duke and a little bit from occupied walls and created a political frankenstein. >> that's right and that was working around the world. but it's time for the democrats, if they won't get anywhere near ohio and a lot of the places in the industrial midwest without economic populism. the economic populism for democrats is more true, it's more authentic and they actually have plans and records to back it up, many of them do. i would love to see that phony populist versus real populist go head to head. >> think about it though, joe biden is not an economic poll u
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lift. he would argue there are components of his message that are. but joe biden, for all of the theater critic treatment in a very negative way he's come under in the last few months, he has a reservoir of really great, goodwill among certainly african-american voters and certainly the working class white voters, who voted in pretty big numbers for donald trump. look, that -- >> you keep talking and i will put up a poll, 39% are south carolina democrats. >> absolutely. i think it helps him that these head-to-head numbers are always compelling in his favor, especially compared to the other candidates but as far as getting there, too, big base of african-american voters in a place like ohio will get you a pretty big base of support and they can also get you a long way towards donald trump. >> and he was african-american, by the way, and you need younger african-american voters, not just the people who are off and
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oversamples, older african-american voters. >> donald trump thinks joe biden can bite into this part of the trump collision. >> i think of all of the democrats running as plausible nominee, biden is the one he thinks the most about and sees the possible winner of the nomination and someone who would be perhaps tough and challenging for some of the votes, crossover voters he won in 2016. i also think donald trump watches a lot of television, as we all know, he saw the first debate performance even though he was supposedly in bilateral meetings with world leaders. >> they are not necessarily exclusive. in a bilateral meeting. >> watching maybe in a back room where the couches were. and he saw biden's performances as shaky too. while biden may unnerve him to some degree on a superficial aspect, i think he sees somebody who maybe lost a step or he thinks he can go after him. donald trump knows for him to move, he's going to have to take
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the pain off of bhofr the democrats nominate. if you look at a poll on july 2019, it only shows you so much about where voters will be in iowa in november 2020. but it does show with the punderization of the entire 2020 electorate, it does have an impact on who the best person is to beat donald trump and it does help solidify this notion joe biden, even if he looks a little unsteady, maybe not the same as he once was, he might be it. >> the person who wins the democratic primary will run against someone who talks about the oranges of the investigation, who slurs in public. george w. bush like fell on a pretzel and we put out like seven doctors. donald trump is in his jammies watching tweety. if that was my parents even i would have an investigation. he talks about orange is the investigation, he misspeaks all the time. if he want president, someone would do something. but you're right, this is how it
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goes for biden saying crazy uncle joe lost a step. >> but biden -- contrasting biden with trump is one thing but when biden is contrasted with someone older, he seems different. if i'm putting my political consultant on, one point, biden is the only one that's a twofer, attracting working class whites and african-american. there's no candidate that can do both other than biden, unless there's a democratic nominee everybody colesses around. >> let me read some of the reporting about kamala harris. in "vanity fair" they write rattled by her depth vivid section of the last debate, republicans wonned irhow harris would do against a real villain, be the next trump. kamala is a nightmare. this is a blank quote from republicans. she's the opposite of that. and she's electable. how do you translate that to a former republican. >> i think where we started the
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show, this idea that you have to fight fire with fight, someone has to be more melodramatic than trump and eat more scenery than he does, i'm not sure that's the way it is. his kryptonite might be the fact we want to relax a little bit. we want somebody we're not going to be reading about all day long every day. that kamala harris seems very level-headed and she's not going to be out there all day long making news. >> you think he can beat donald trump sbitiitting out the news cycle. >> i don't know. >> i don't know. i wouldn't want to test the theory. >> i would not have to fight him news cycle to news cycle all the time. >> do you think he can be beat any other way? >> i don't know. how can you beat him per news cycle? he's shameless. >> the other thing though, when he dominates a news cycle, it doesn't necessary lip him. >> it doesn't hurt him though. he's static. he had the same approval rating since election day. >> if everyone is arguing whether he's a racist or not and replaying his remarks and
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showing poll numbers showing that the americans overwhelmingly believe this comment is racist, it doesn't help them. >> i guess the only pushback i would give you is we did call him a racist. he is a racist. he didn't ever apologize for being a racist and his numbers are unchanged. do you think he's going to stop being a racist? >> the fact his numbers are unchanged is a problem for him. i mean, it can work both ways. yes, he has a high floor but he has shown again and again he has a pretty low ceiling. elections are about getting to 48%, 49%. >> i feel like low ceilings will be a book you're going to write. >> absolutely, i guarantee you there will be no book i write called "low ceilings." >> fair point. after the break, it was the line of questioning that invoked the most testimony from special counsel robert mueller, the ongoing threat posed by one of donald trump's favorite world leaders, one he admires for his strength, vladimir putin of russia. that's next. utin of russia that's next. w turkey.
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no secret the big question ahead of the mueller hearings yesterday was this, would robert mueller move the needle on impeachment? not nearly as much attention was paid to mueller, career prosecutor, head of the fbi after 9/11, and the man appointed to investigate the russian attack on our democracy, might move the needle on the country's degree of alarm over russia's ongoing attacks on our country. but mueller succeeded in breaking donald trump's republican firewall on the question of the russian threat. he's a republican member of congress on that russian threat. >> in your investigation, did you think this was a single attempt by the russians to get involved in our election, or did you find evidence to suggest they would try to do this again? >> it wasn't a single attempt, they're doing it as we sit here and they expect to do it during the next campaign. >> as we sit here. close trump ally and adviser
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chris christie also weighed in on the republicans' shortsightedness on the russia threat. >> it's a big mistake for republicans long term for our credibility, which we always had at least for the last 40 years since ronald reagan as the party of national security, by putting national security first. i think it's very shortsighted strategy. >> big mistake, huge. an fbi director chris wray warned earlier this week the russian effort is indeed ongoing. >> are the russians still trying to interfere in our election system? >> the russians are absolutely intent on trying to interfere with our elections through -- >> is it fair to say -- thank you. everything we've done against russia has not deterred them enough? >> all of the sanctions, all of the talk, they're still at it. >> my view is until they stop, they haven't been deterred enough. >> and they're still doing it? >> yes. >> a lot of warnings from a lot of people, which makes it all the most disturbing the current
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republican position on the legislation is to block it. the hill reporting today, quote, senator majority leader mitch mcconnell blocked two election security measures on thursday, arguing democrats are trying to give themselves a political benefit. what? the table is back. what political benefit? unless you are so politically weak you need russia's help, what political benefit is there for keeping them out of our election elections? >> if vladimir putin was watching the hearings yesterday, and might have been, and meeting the hill and seeing mcconnell quashed these bipartisan bills, he's thinking wow, it's open season for us. we were successful before. we were successful in the uk where the prime minister supported brexit and the people supported brexit, i have the whole transatlantic alliance. there's nothing to stop me. and they just keep doing this.
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st. petersburg is a tremendous opposition. they saw a tremendous effort to subvert the european union elections. part of what they were doing is suppressing the vote, telling people who cares about the european union, it's not important. this kind of governance is not important. that's part of the whole russian idea, this ability to rule ourselves in a democracy is a canard. we shouldn't even be bothered trying to participate. >> and if chris ever sat at this table, and i doubt he ever will, but what i would want to ask him about donald trump's encouraging russian interference. >> no, russia did not help me get elected. who you know who got me elected? i got elected. >> there was a joke. there was obviously never help from the russians. >> we looked at facebook, russians buying some ads, a terrible thing but i think the speculation and all that happened the last two years had a much harder impact on
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democracy than a couple of facebook ads. >> i want to know if chris wray thinks the investigation run by robert mueller, who proceeded him -- i guess comey proceeded him but the fbi director for comey was robert mueller, if robert mueller's into the russian attack had a harsher position on our democracy than what jared described as a couple facebook ads. i'm guessing chris wray doesn't agree with that and i'm guessing chris wray does not like to see the 2020 campaign director calling it a joke and donald trump denying the assessment of the intelligence community. >> i'm certain he almost didn't like it when donald trump a month ago at osaka at the g20 sat next to putin and when a reporter called out tell him not to meddle in the election, trump took it as a joke, performed for the cameras, looked at putin and said, please, don't meddle in the election, with a smirk on
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his face. he's minimizing this in plain sight. that's something -- there's nothing hitten abodden about th. it's all the out in the open. mcconnell blocking the bills. you have to watch what they do. if they're blocking these bills, they don't care about outside interference and inviting it from any country. >> we have been talking about trump's brand. his brand is the opposite of what supporters in ohio think it is. he's so weak, he's so impotent, he can't win without big, bad vladimir putin. i actually think -- and i hear this too from garrett haake, we're not asking about russia because we don't know what russia does. they help donald cheat at politics the way donald trump cheats at golf. it's central to his brand. >> exactly. i think that is part of what could be a larger story the democrats tell, which is really directed to a lot of donald trump's supporters and potential supporters, which is what does this guy actually accomplish on your behalf? is the swamp drained? is obama care gone?
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is the wall built? and then the question on election security, do they actually welcome elections, some kind of intervention? are they actually relying on that as part of their strategy? we know what donald trump thinks about this. he has said it many times and you can make an assessment about his ego needing to think he won on his own or the strategic goal going forward, but the question has to be put to mitch mcconnell, what are you doing here? are you against election security, yes or no. to me he's up for re-election. he's obviously going to be very sensitive to this. i just don't know what the answer is right now. >> mitch mcconnell in 2016 helped stop the employ of information to the american public about the russian attack in '16. there's inconsistency for mcconnell's part too. >> right. but the way everything is so tribal and partisan now. everything is sort of about allegiance to trump and to the party and it's less about principle. it's less about him poa produc
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this isn't what you did last time. voters don't care about that, the emotional connection they have is stronger than any of that stuff. >> i agree with you and i think it goes even further. i think the rock goes deeper. we saw the republican party basically decide we're going to take an anti-democratic brand basically. we're going to take a brand on things like health care and taxes and public spending in general that just isn't popular and we're going to go against demographic destiny so we're going to break the rules. my organization works on democracy issues and the way that's become republican party gospel from secretary of state to the president of the united states to perpetuate the myth, the lie of voter fraud in order to change the rule that everybody possible turn to make it harder for people to vote, to make it easier for our own billionaires and oligarchs to buy our election, how is that so
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far down the field from saying, you know what, a foreign power can go ahead and try to subvert our democracy. there's just not a belief in democracy from today's republican party and it's because they've taken a strategy that is fundamentally unpopular. >> rick? >> they're subverting democracy themselves even more than vladimir putin is by not allowing people to vote, by not allowing instant voting, by subverting these election security laws, they're single-handedly undermining the democracy in a way that's more pronounceds than what the russians are doing. but they're hand in glove window. >> our friend had a piece in "the washington post" saying mueller didn't fail the country, we did. what mueller did on the level of substance, what mueller did on the level of fact pattern, what mueller did in terms of the credibility of a man who obviously wasn't performing for any camera. he was simply doing what he was asked to do, he was subpoenaed. he didn't volunteer to go up
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there. and render every trump lie about what the report says, completely moot, destroyed. it did not exonerate him. certainly lending credence to the fact if president trump was anyone other than president he would be charged with not just one act but ten acts of criminal its justice and threats. you're thoughts on how we processed that information. >> i think it's the right call it wasn't mueller's fault, it was ours. realistically, 148-page report is hard for people to read, they're working. it's hard for anybody to read. we in the media did not do a good enough job of summarizing in a bite-sized way. it took us too long. the republicans did. why not get everything on a three by five card we just say over and over and over. that's what we have to do. the sorry thing is we put everything on the shoulders of robert mueller and he's obviously not a partisan and didn't want to be part of that.
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>> we also let bob barr olivia pope this whole situation. i'm sorry, bill barr. we let barr come out with a summary that was the three by five card of this information. i remember sitting at a desk when that happened, i was agoing. i can't believe this is happening in realtime. we have not seen the report and i do not trust him. >> define we though. the presidency, donald trump's twitter feed and certainly attorney general of the united states is a massive, massive bully pulpit that quite frankly they know how to use and are going to use. the democrats have not been good or adept at playing catch-up or however you want to play it. even though bob mueller was not hired as a performer and he got pretty hash, reviews yesterday from his performance, there are index cards coming out of yesterday. >> crimes committed, russia still attacking us, would have been charged with crimes if he was president and still could be when he leaves. >> correct. >> when you talk to donald trump
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and ask him about the specifics of the substance to what mueller testified to yesterday and trump lashed out of that reporter and said you're fake news. he has yet to issue any statement, white house, campaign, nobody responded to the substance of what mueller says in the report, what he said yesterday during that hearing and beyond asking the question, at some point, right, where do we go next? when donald trump just brushes it aside, gas lights the whole country. he's president and has the bully pulpit and attorney general goes out and spins it for him, what happens next? >> here's my last point on this, what's problematic for trump is he's so shallow, i thinks the republicans are his friends. not one republican on either committee asked a single question to undermine a single word on a single page or on a single footnote of a report compiled based on interviews with hundreds of people, most of whom worked for donald j. trump. so i guess we're lucky he doesn't read. mark, eli, thank you for
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spending time with us. he claimed he drained the swamp but right now donald trump's washington is swampier than ever. nick zoberoff joins us on their special the dirty stuff. why americans hate it. s hate it. i had a heart problem. i was told to begin my aspirin regimen, and i just didn't listen. until i almost lost my life. my doctors again ordered me to take aspirin, and i do. be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. listen to the doctor. take it seriously.
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decades of failure in washington and decades of special interest dealing must and will come to an end. and we are going to drain the swamp. we are going to washington, d.c., and we are going to drain the swamp. >> nothing matters. far from fighting lobbyists, and special interests, trump has ushered in the swampiest season
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ever. it's awesome to see you back. we miss you every day. >> i am moonlighting today so i'll be back in a little while. but today it's been nice to be back. >> and if you want to see her pregnancy, go buy her episodes because it happens very fast. >> has msnbc ever done a docuseries? >> this was much looser. nothing is in a studio. there's no talking heads screaming at each other, no offense to anybody. and we go out on the field and we have longer conversations with democrats, republicans, independents, and just a lot of regular people to figure out what is wrong and how can we fix it. >> and not just that but what is the swamp and has donald trump done what he said he was going to do? and spoiler alert, he has not. the way they describe what is important to them and what happens in their day-to-day lives is so different from the way the lives americans are
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talked about by politicians in washington. what are the big forces that are influencing what is happening. >> there are a handful of fundamental issues that if we address them as a nation we'll start to fix the problems all the way up the ladder. that's campaign finance reform. voter apathy is also a big deal. if you look at those things, and gerrymandering, and say how do we get to the heart of this, you will be able to fix the problems we see all the way up at the top. lawmakers don't want dollar for dollar. american people do the fixing. >> in certain places the fixing is already happening. we go to montana, for instance. they have something called the disclose act where there visitlessly no dark money in their elections because of this bill that was passed. >> 90 days before an election, you have to say who you are if you want to spend on the election. you've got to say who you are, even if you're a 501(c)4. were trying to get him out of office.
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they didn't want him re-elected. then 90 days before the election they stopped because the people behind it didn't want to say who they were. >> i follow your friendship largely on social media. how far back do you guys go? >> 20 years. unfortunately for katie. >> we're high school rivals. jacob went to harvard west lake, and he was kind of a heartthrob, but the girls at my school had -- >> the biggest loser of all time. >> had a big crush on him. we became closer when we were in college. we had some really close mutual friends. >> our dads ran against each other for mayor and they both lost. >> we had a really great time, and that's why this series works. it is two friends trying to figure it out. >> make sense of it. >> as we go along. it's not uptight. often times -- >> and neither of you are uptight. >> we are sitting on a bench going through open secrets.org and explaining to you what
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matters. and it's really fun. we had a great time. >> we go out to arizona where we look at the proliferation, virtually nobody has solar panels on their homes because of the proliferation of dark money. and we want people to understand how they can contribute to fixing it. >> i can't wait to watch it. >> i'm going to watch it sunday night. always happy to see you. thank you, guys. >> you'll see me long-term very soon. >> that was a tease. i'll take it. their documentary series "american swamp" kicks off this sunday this sunday on msnbc. we will be right back. der mike'. but super poligrip gives him a tight seal. to help block out food particles. so he can enjoy the game. super poligrip. great riches will find you when liberty mutual customizes your car insurance,
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my thanks to rick, heather, katie, and jacob. most of all to you for watching. that does it for our hour. i am nicole. "mtp daily" with chuck todd starts now. ♪ if it's thursday, the pressure now is on pelosi as democrats must decide impeach or don't impeach. and mueller could not have been more clear about the ongoing threat to our democracy. russia is targeting us right now. and a new bipartisan senate report shows just how unprepared we are. plus, is joe biden ready for a fight? well, apparently he is now because he's taking his gloves off with the 2020 race coming to another head next week.

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