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tv   Politics Nation With Al Sharpton  MSNBC  July 27, 2019 2:00pm-3:00pm PDT

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that wraps it up for me. i'm richard lui. i'll see you this hour at 4:00 eastern. now i turn it to reverend al sharpton and "politicsnation." good evening and welcome to "politicsnation." tonight's lead, easy target. i woke up this morning thinking about tonight's show, how legitimately surprised i was that this week where president donald trump dodged any new bullets from robert mueller. the campaigner in chief had not leaned into his emerging
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strategy of telling his nonwhite opponents to go back to their birth places, but this morning the president began his weekend by unloading on the majority-black middle class baltimore district led by elijah cummings, calling the 7th district the most dangerous, dangerous, rat and rodent infested mess. in the midst of it all, calling cummings a bully. this week cummings led the house oversight committee vote to subpoena sensitive white house communications, this after cummings led the grilling of trump's acting homeland security head over conditions facing detained migrants on our southern border. but today's attack marked the latest insistence in which this president failed to do his
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homework and made racialized assumptions about a political opponent again, con flating black and brown, and calling maryland as a place where, quote, no human being wants to live there. joining me now, felipe rays, and susan del percio, republican strategist and msnbc political analyst. susan, let me go to you because i remember when republicans had a different point of view, but the same standards and values. for this president, to over and over and over again use racialized and demeaning and disgusting language, particularly when it comes to blacks and browns, here we go
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again. many felt that he escaped any real hit in the mueller testimony, though i disagree on content i think he suffered. but the th >> he got a favorable ruling from the supreme court last night on allowing funding to go to the border, which it was tied up. >> over $2 billion. >> i thought you were going to say you remember when republicans had a backbone, because i remember that. >> that too. >> because what i find -- i expect this at this point from this president. we know all he wants to do is divide and use race and divisive language to help his -- get his base riled up and hope to suppress a certain amount of the vote, but going after elijah cummings this morning, rev, i mean, to what end? why? for no reason other than he thought that it could benefit
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him in some disturbing way. to that, we keep trying to figure out what the democrats raggle c rallying cry for 2020 should be. we should take it from cummings saying we are better than this. as a republican, i believe we're better than that. as a country i think we're better than this. and i really hope to see that some republicans stand up at least with a fellow member of congress at this point they've worked for decades in some cases to say enough is enough. >> felipe, when you look at these quotes, yeah, we know where some of them come from. some of it comes from his fear of what happened if what cummings subpoenaing and may reveal things trump may know before we do what it could reveal. but he not only attacks cummings, he attacks a well-educated, stable community
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in maryland where the citizens there, mostly of color, are collateral damage to his venom against people in general, and particularly those who would question him. >> what strikes me is he said he has no interest in helping them. even if you were fox or whatever he watches during the day and they had a piece about baltimore and problems in baltimore, baltimore does have a high crime rate no, city in america is perfect. how about, hey, elijah, why don't you stop by the office and we can talk about federal solutions. he has absolutely no interest in doing that. what strikes me is a lot of things. first, everyone always thinks he has a plan. i don't think he has a plan. he sees tv and tweets, not much thought in between. if he has a plan, it's a pretty bad one because these are so self-defeating. now, why would you attack -- if you want to call chairman cummings a bully, remember that he's a bully with a committee >> right with subpoena power.
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>> chairman cummings, maxine waters, adam schiff, the three of them are some of his biggest targets on twitter, and, boy, can the three of them really put the screws to him. i don't know if he just doesn't process that, but there's a much bigger problem with just -- we all think about 2016 and he often said build the wall, make america great again, lock her up. but there was another slogan that he had that got far less attention, that is what do you have to lose? >> right. >> and he said that to an african-american community, i believe, in michigan. and it became a larger cultural issue than that. but people have to ask that question and they have to answer it. the question, what do you have to lose, is exactly what we're looking at. >> he answered that today. >> yeah. >> but i'll go back to your point, susan. why aren't republicans in the senate, in the leadership of the republican party standing up? how disgusting does this president have to get with his rhetoric and his tweets before
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they bide their own self-respect, say wait a minute, i'm not going to identify with this? >> i don't know, rev. it started with the muslim ban, then charlottesville when trump soon after trump was elected president. and even then you see many republicans saying that's wrong. after attacking the squad, i heard nothing. >> right. >> today i heard maybe one or two people say that the chant send them back was wrong but it was limited to one or two people and today i heard nothing. because they are afraid. they have outlived their usefulness to the party and to this government because they don't want to govern. they are afraid to govern. they're afraid of this president because they're afraid of a primary. and it really does boil down to that. how else can you explain lindsey
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graham, for example? there's no way of getting past that. even mitt romney, who was just elected and has five 1/2 years on his term is relatively silent. fear, rev. >> there may be concern about a primary, but it may be concern about a general election because many of them are in very, very serious races and could lose the senate if the president with his disgust in terms of the content of what he's saying, if he keeps this up, he's going to energize a vote that could be something that no one has seen in a long time against him and against those republican senatorial candidates. >> i'm a little fearful. look at 2018. 2018 we always focus on taking the house back. it gave you say veto on his actions. the senate did not, and it is very rare historically for the
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two houses to veer. and they kept the senate and gained in the senate because of this demographic where if there's a rural area in a state, trump has it. even if there are 22 of 34 seats -- >> 2018, the map was so against the democrats. i mean, overwhelmingly. >> it's not that way in 2020. >> that is correct. >> the numbers are good. it's 22 out of 34, and i don't want to be a debbie downer. i hope what you're saying comes out. but the large issue is susan listed the two things. they learned not to touch the hot stove a third, fourth time. there is absolutely nothing to be gained. you should be saying and doing the right thing no matter what the consequences, but they have actually learned there is zero consequences. lindsey graham, the guy -- trump took, you know, gave out his cell phone number on television. he said that ted cruz's wife was
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ugly. these are people that he has -- his father. >> lindsey graham is a perfect example. for lindsey graham in 2018, his approval rating at home was about 57%, something like that, 54%. a year later after he started hugging trump the way he did and not speaking out for what was right, guess what, he's at 74% now. that's what people see. they see what happened to lindsey graham and see it's a way to fend off a primary challenger. the numbers are there in many cases, actually. i don't think he's unique. >> i think also, though, felipe, when you look at this whole picture and you look, you hope they come out, i think it is the responsibility of democratic leadership to energize because one of the things that saddens me as i opened up when i woke up this morning and this is even before the baltimore tweet, is that are the democrats learning
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how to message in a way that would energize? trump knows thousand energize his base, but the democrats don't seem to be able to crystallize. do you understand we're talking about a head of state that's talking about american citizens, comparing them to rodents? this is unthinkable in the whole world. any head of state would not do that to a district in a major city in their country. this is the sitting president comparing citizens saying i don't know why you live there. i mean, this is almost unbelievable. >> it is unbelievable, and it is sad when you see these polls that he goes up. i think there's a structural problem in that it is easier to weaponize hate than it is to mobilize hope. and that's the problem democrats have. now, our primaries we're debating about all sorts of things.
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i don't know where we end up once we have a nominee. but the question is are we trying to outanger them? are we giving a positive package? are we just saying anyone is better than trump? >> plus you also have -- i leave this to the two of you, but are you going to go the way florida and georgia did on a national level to the more progressive candidate to run hoping you increase the base turnout, or are you going to try to put someone more center who can pick up states like pennsylvania and michigan -- not michigan. and wisconsin at least. >> we're going to talk about that later in the show. but let me say, i don't think that the democrats have to learn how to sell hate, but i do think they should -- >> and we're incapable of doing it even if we wanted to. >> my mother used say i love you, that's why i'm going to spank you, get the belt. we'll have more later in the show. coming up, we'll talk to a
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congresswoman who sat on both congressional hearings of special counsel robert mueller this week to hear her take on the testimony. this is "politicsnation." let's be honest, you need insurance. but it's not really something you want to buy. it's not sexy... oh delicious. or delicious... or fun. ♪ but since you need both car and home insurance, why not bundle them with esurance and save up to 10%.
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could you say director mueller that the president was credible? >> i can't answer that question. >> isn't it fair to say that the president's written answers were not only inadequate and incomplete because he didn't
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answer many of your questions, but where he did his answers showed that he wasn't always truthful? >> i would say generally. >> that was a key moment during robert mueller's testimony this week where the special counsel acknowledged that evidence he gathered contradicted the president's written answers provided to him and showed the president was not always truthful. joining me now is congresswoman value demings, democrat of florida. she sat on both committee hearings, judiciary and intelligence. congresswoman, you sat at both hearings. you remember both the intelligence committee and the judiciary committee. some have said what mr. mueller did was a bad performance or less than inspiring performance, but the content of what he said, particularly in the answer to
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you, i think, is alarming to anyone listening. he said the president was not truthful, and he said clearly to your committee, the judiciary committee, that he did not exonerate him from obstruction of justice. as a lawmaker in both committees, what did you take away from mueller's testimony, and what does it mean to the american people? >> hello, reverend sharpton. it's great to be with you again. >> thank you. >> let me say this. you know, we know that the president obviously was not credible. director mueller couldn't even comment on the president's credibility per se, but we certainly know that special counsel mueller was credible. special counsel mueller walked us through very carefully russia's interference with the election, walked us through the president welcoming that interference. the president trying to obstruct justice, and the fact that the
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special counsel could not clear the president of any wrongdoing. that's what we got to and what we found out or was confirmed last week. >> now, when he says these things, some of the president's supporters and some even in the media acts like because he didn't do a performance like he was at a show, that that was less than something we should take notice of. you represent a district in florida where voting is extremely challenged throughout the history of the last few decades. to say that a foreign power was influencing and had influence and continues to influence voting is a big deal. i don't care how he said it, whether he was halting or standing on the table, one of your colleagues said we didn't look for robert de niro. we're talking about a prosecutor. what does that have to do with the content of what he said? >> reverend sharpton, i'm having
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some audio problems, but i believe you were talking about elections interference and preparation. clearly, clearly, as the report that came out from the senate recently indicated that russia targeted all 50 states. we know that the president certainly has taken no steps to do anything about it because he feels it would undermine his win in 2016. but more disappointing is the fact that the senate led by mitch mcconnell has chosen to do absolutely nothing to protect our election systems and really prepare for the 2020 election. >> now, listen to congressman jerry nadler the chair of the judiciary committee. two days after the hearing. listen to this. >> among other things we would
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consider are, obviously, are whether to recommend articles of impeachment. we may not do that, we may do that, but that's the conclusion at the end of the process. >> do you think, congresswoman, that we are at the point now to begin looking to deal with articles of impeachment? >> reverend sharpton, again, i'm having audio problems but i believe you asked the question about impeachment. look, i said four months ago after reading the mueller report without the special counsel coming in to testify that i believe there was enough in that report to begin impeachment proceedings. special counsel mueller came in and confirmed the most damning, if you will, portions of the report, and the president's engagement and really the web of people around him who engaged in lies and deceit and deception. yesterday when the chairman of the judiciary committee announced that he was
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petitioning the court to give the underlying documents as well as to get a key fact witness to come in was really a great day as far as i'm concerned and really a win. and i believe, reverend sharpton, that we are moving directly into the place where we need to be to have the supporting documentation to begin filing articles of impeachment. >> now, the president today called one of your colleagues a well-respected, well-regarded member of congress, elijah cummings, a bully, and desecrated the citizens in his districts judgment saying who would want to live there. as a sitting member of congress, and one i know who respects elijah cummings, how do you react to the president's very, very hateful words about the citizens in the district that congressman elijah cummings
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represents? >> reverend sharpton, let me just say this because the president yet again -- words came as just a shock this morning, especially about such a respected member of congress. but you know, my mother used to say, it's a shame when a person is ignorant and they don't recognize that they are ignorant. it's a shame when a person is the emperor in the room with no clothes on, but they don't recognize or realize they are the emperor in the room with no clothes on. talking about 45 is really, i think, just a waste of time. but let me say this about elijah cummings. i know a few people in congress who are more respected as a member of congress, more respected in his district and more respected around the nation for the work that he has done. >> we see that the president
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somehow always reserves his most vitriolic language with people of color, whether it is the squad as they're called, whether it is african nations that he calls s-hole, now elijah cummings, he attacks everybody but he has particularly graphic language when it comes to people of color, particularly blacks. do you think this indicates the inherent racism of this president? >> reverend sharpton, i said in 2016 as a candidate then, just listen to the president viciousness centered around the birther movement regarding the first african-american president that donald trump was a racist, a bigot, and a hater. now, i really wish after being elected to congress that president trump would have d
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dispelled by greatest fears but he has done nothing but proven that he is exactly a racist. to use the language of rodent and rat-infested and despicable things about people of color proves who he is. >> congresswoman demings, thank you so much for being with us. >> thank you so much. coming up, we've seen today and i've said before, race will take center stage in the 2020 election, and i have a message to president trump next. man: i've been diagnosed with
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. this is normally the time for my weekly memo to president trump, but i already told our racist president what i feel about his obnoxious tweets and his targeting of minorities to rally his base. so let me tell you something about that targeting this week. this week we found this photo showing a memorial sign for murdered black teenager emmett till, and posing next to it, three white students from the
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university of mississippi armed with guns. the sign was placed near the spot where till's body was pulled because theal hatchy river in 1955, and as you can see, it's riddled with bullets. of course it's not the first time it's been vandalized over the years, but a very loaded solution is now being employed to prevent future defacement. the sign will be replaced yet again, but this time, it will be bullet proof, 600 pounds, made of reinforced steel. that's where we are in 2019, not where we should be. while it's unclear whether the three ole miss shot up the sign, they were suspended by their fraternity and the justice department has launched an investigation. but even as the executive branch does its job, i do not expect to hear anything from our chief executive, if nothing, because i doubt he knows who emmett till
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was. but if president trump can fall on the sword for the confederacy, then he should do the same for a child whose brutal death breathed life into america's greatest movement. rest in peace, emmett till. check your base, mr. president. we'll be right back. since my dvt blood clot
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. in just three days, 20 democratic presidential candidates will face off for the second debate of the 2020 election season. the candidates will be on stage in detroit, michigan, with two big matchups to watch. on the first night, senators bernie sanders and elizabeth warren will aim to set themselves apart on policy agendas as they both go after the progressive base. and on the second night, senators kamala harris and cory booker will share the stage with former vice president joe biden. the three have been calling each other out on racial issues in the past week. back with me are two political strategist, democratic felipe reynas and susan del percio. i said i hope the democrats don't engage in political
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cannibalism, though they must distinguish themselves, they must also deal with the fact that the objective is to unseat the sitting president. what are you hopeful for, and what are you afraid of in the debate? i know you're the man of hope, not hate for the last segment. but what are you hopeful for and what are you afraid of? >> i'm not afraid of us eating our own for the simple reason we can never be as vicious to ourselves as republicans will be to us next year. if someone got up on the debate stage and said i have photos and i hired a private detective to take, that's not a nice thing to do. but if it's about medicare for all, policy. and i think, you know, what these guys have to worry about is overcompensating. if you're joe biden's team, you don't want joe biden going out there and trying to relitigate
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the debate that didn't go well for him by being overly aggressive. the clip you showed about cory booker and the dynamic with biden, if you remember right before the second debate, it was cory booker that was going after joe biden. they had this phone call that apparently was tense and didn't go well. but it was kamala who took advantage of it in the debate. and i think people might be overdoing it because there's a weird desperation with these debates. the entire goal is to get into the next debate. there's seven weeks until the next one, but folks are desperate. >> some are very low in the polls. >> but some of them don't want to stand out. beto o'rourke stood out font wrong reasons. to me, elizabeth warren was the prototype of what to do. she did what she does every day, she talked about policies, belief, and if you're doing something else on the debate night on the debate stage that you didn't do a week before in
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iowa or in an interview with you, then you've got a bigger problem than not debating well. >> susan, let me show you the latest polls because they are instructive, a snapshot. we see that the fox news polls has joe biden at 33%. he actually went up a point. bernie sanders at less than half, he went up two points. elizabeth warren, 12%. pete buttigieg, 5%. and then when you go with the polls of all of them against president trump, joe biden beats president trump double digits. bernie sanders -- this is a fox poll -- beats him six points. elizabeth warren is a point under him, which is really a dead heat, and the same with kamala harris. who do the republicans fear? i mean, you are a lincoln/reagan republican. i can say you are my favorite republican. i'll say it on television.
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they are very rare and unique these days. i don't know what happened, and i never thought i would like a reagan republican. >> i seem moderate. >> absolutely. but who do the republicans in your opinion -- let me rephrase that. who do the trump republicans fear would give them the contest that they most fear? >> right now it's joe biden. the trump campaign has done nothing to expand its base, so that means there's a lot of people who may have gone with trump who said, oh, gosh, people said, what do you have to lose? a lot apparently and they're worried about losing them again. senator harris is also very interesting, though, because i don't know if donald trump will know exactly how to run against a woman of color. >> and a prosecutor. >> and a prosecutor.
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i think it will make him very, very uncomfortable. so i would say those are the two. the other thing i would like to mention is there's something about elizabeth warren that also gets under donald trump's skin and i think it's because she's the only one out there who looks like she's having a good time. she likes doing these debates. i think the matchup with her and bernie sanders, bernie with that scowl on him and her going out there, is really quite interesting. >> and i think he thinks that he took his shot and missed that pocahontas didn't do what he thought it would do. >> right. and she is now becoming -- >> she's actually gone up. >> which is a positive historic cal figure. >> she's the best progressive we can have. >> and those numbers are a little deceiving on the warren point because warren has really taken the full brunt of the donald trump treatment over the last year. if she's still up on him by two
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points, that's pretty impressive. it shows that she can take on the machine. >> the other thing, felipe, i want you to weigh in on this as well, susan. we must remember trump also won in the electoral college. he lost the popular vote, with independents going for him, some that voted for obama that voted for him because they wanted change. and that is dwindling. and you had jill stein, third-party candidates that took a chunk out and we're not hearing that this time. so you don't have that block of voters that went to the third parties that will help trump this time. >> this brings up an interesting point. i don't think any of us still fully understand what happened in 2016, so it's a little bit tough to figure out how to solve this. >> you might have to go to moscow. >> exactly. to me, people oversimplified 2016 by saying wisconsin, michigan, and pennsylvania. those were three very different states or at least two different
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categories. trump underperformed romney in wisconsin. he didn't terribly outperform romney in michigan. he completely blew away romney by hundreds of thousands of votes in pennsylvania as did secretary clinton over obama. if they can't figure out pennsylvania, if there's still a problem in pennsylvania, that's what i find nerve-wracking. the other thing is, yes, you can win the election without ohio, boy, have they been right over the years. i mean, they haven't been on the wrong side of an election since 1964. they've gotten 13 in a row right. they've only been on the wrong side twice since 1896. why are we still losing ohio? that's not to say we can't win without the numbers, but it's a huge warning sign. >> what happens to the republican party if he wins or if he loses? how do you put humpty dumpty back together?
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>> you see a real fracture. you see a breakout to some kind of third party or a real independent movement. the republican party gets just divided in half. and i think that is a very strong possibility. >> it's a dead party walking. it's not bouncing back to pretrump. >> trump can happen once. >> revert to go pre-trump days is not that great. it's post-tea party. >> we don't forget new voters. no millennial wants to come in or people of color want to come in under trump. >> the generation will be better off. >> or independents. >> there's the one black defy at the rallies holding up the sign. thank you, felipe and susan. coming up next, my guests were told to go back to africa. instead, he's running for senate. be right back. i don't keep track of regrets. and i don't add up the years. but what i do count on... is boost®
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joining us now is the mayor of helena, montana, will not collins, the state's first black mayor and is a former refugee from liberia, a u.s. navy veteran, and is now running for the u.s. senate seat held by republican steve daines. thank you for being with us, mr. mayor. you are a refugee for liberia. you heard the statements by president trump and you've heard silence from the incumbent republican senator from your state of montana. your reacting by running. why? >> thanks for having me, reverend al. the people of montana deserve two senators, and we've come to realize that the junior senator from montana belongs to the executive branch. and when the president made those remarks, he was the only
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one that made comments. it tells me that, you know, the dog whistle continues. he was also referring to me because he knows where i'm from originally, and so part of the reason here also is the fact that the people of montana are craving for someone to bring about change, climate change. let's talk about the catastrophic wildfire. let's talk about health care. instead we have our junior senator talking about you know what. >> the senator agreed with the president or defended president in these comments? >> yes, he did. he said he 100% agreed with the president. >> and by agreeing with the president, how do you, despite the fact you served in the u.s. navy, you were elected mayor in a state that does not have an overwhelming amount of people of
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color, and you were able to be elected mayor. how did you feel when the junior senator in your state said he agreed 100% with what this president said? >> i was taken what the people montana is about. look, when i fled lie bacterber went to helena, montana, i had write on my wall people telling me to go back. that's the kind of people i'm interacting with. and unlike the senator, he does not know the values of montana. he does not -- the people don't know him. he doesn't know them. he spends more time in washington, d.c. with the big lobbyists and billionaires than looking out for the people of montana. so right now, the people of montana have one senator, and they're looking for another one who will represent them well. >> now, let me go back to that. that's interesting.
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you yourself were attacked by people saying, writing on the walls, go back to africa, and citizens in new york city, in your town, came out and washed the walls and i'm assuming many of them if not all were white, so there are people that are willing to stand up to this kind of bigotry and bias. >> yes, indeed. especially citizens of helena, montana. i've experienced, look, you will experience racism all over the place, reverend al, but how your community reacts to what happens makes the difference. and not in our town. you are part of us. >> where are the democratic leadership, you have a democratic governor who's running for president, how is he reacting to your announcing you're running. >> well, you know, he's got his own election to run, so i mean, he's running for president himself so i think he's more focussed on that, but, you know, the people, unlike my opponent,
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the junior senator deans who has all the billionaires and millionaires and corporate interests with him, i have the people. i'm proud to say i have the people of montana with me. >> what are the critical issues that people in montana are concerned about that you really want to go to washington and deal with and representation them on? >> reverend al, i have been touring this state. when i went to fort benton in montana, they were concerned about the tariffs. they spoke to me about how the tariffs are hurting the farmers and ranchers. when i went to boazman, they're talking about the student loans and health care, and in helena, we're talking about health care, so the issues are there. but they don't have a representative. they don't have another senator that would take those issues to washington, d.c. i am going to make the people of montana's issues my issues and that's what i'm going to take
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with me to washington. >> how has the reaction been since you announced you're running. what have people been saying to you as you tour the state? >> you know, surprisingly well. i am so happy i'm in montana because i thought it was going to be a difficult journey, but it's becoming easier and easier. i've been well received everywhere, even in montana where people first initially told me, hey, you've got to be careful, but it's going very well, reverend. >> that's a fantastic story. thank you for being with us mayor collins. >> it is my pleasure to be here reverend al. >> all right. up next, my final thoughts, stay with us. ay next, my final thoughtt with us. this is the couple who wanted to get away who used expedia to book the vacation rental that led to the ride ♪ which took them to the place where they discovered that sometimes a little down time can lift you right up.
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now, for my final thoughts. we all know this president is never shy about insulting cities and countries that disagree with him politically, but as i and others have pointed out today, he reserves particular insult for black and brown cities, voting districts, and countries. some of those cities, our finest, some of those nations our partners, and that insult is infested, whether it's congressman john lewis atlanta district or where he thinks the members of the so called squad are originally from, even the one guy running against trump for the republican ticket had this to say.
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>> donald trump is a raging racist. okay. he's a complete and thorough going racist. unless the republican party in washington expressly, expressly rejects the racism of donald trump, they're going to come to be universally viewed as the party of racism in america. and a lot of them like to think that it's a political choice, but it's not a political choice. it's a moral choice. >> you see, president trump attacks a lot of people, attacks a lot of city, attacks a lot of countries, but he uses dehumanizing terms when it comes to black and brown and yellow and red people. nonwhites. they're infested, they're insects, they're like rodents, they should be smashed or stepped on because they're not
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human, and that particular level of rhetoric is what we need to understand since the conditioning of a nation that feels that inequality and unfairness is appropriate and understandable. but we're not infested, mr. trump. we're the people that helped build the country. you talk about make america great, well, it was blacks that built this country into being the strongest economy in the western world and in the world. it was brown and asians and yellow people, red people, that came here believing that if the huddled masses yearning to be free could get here they could have a better life, and they contributed to this country. they're not infested. they're not insects. they are the foundation of this country, and america will never be great unless we can deal with all of us equally, and not look at some of us like we're less
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than human or insects that are infested pieces and parts of this country. that does it for me. thanks for watching. i'll see you back here tomorrow at 5:00 p.m. eastern for a new live edition of politics nation. up next, deadline white house with my friend and colleague, nico nicole wallace. >> aloha, and i apologize to disappoint you, i am not nicolle wall la wallace. a top democrat venturing where no top democrat has gone before. house judiciary chairman jerry nadler suggesting his committee is already in effect conducting an impeachment inquiry against donald trump. >> you're saying there's no difference between what you're doing now and an impeachment inquiry, right? >> in effect. >> it's a

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