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tv   MSNBC Live With Craig Melvin  MSNBC  August 1, 2019 8:00am-9:00am PDT

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her back chants rang out. what will we see tonight? let's begin with a fallout from political attacks or as our team put it, everybody was kung fu fighting. democrats at last night's presidential debate in detroit went after each other it seemed, far more than they went after president trump. senator kamala harris who had such a strong first debate found herself much more in the line of fire this time. but it was front runner joe biden serving as the main target after a seemingly cordial start. >> mr. vice president, there's a saying in my community you're dipping in the kool-aid and you don't even know the flavor. >> in 2007 you became mayor. you had a police department you went out and hired rudy giuliani's guy, you engablinged in stop and terrific. >> in 2019 in america, for a democrat to be running for president with the plan that does not cover everyone, i think
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is without excuse. >> mr. vice president, you want to be president of the united states, you need to be age to answer the tough questions. i guarantee you if you're debating donald trump he's not going to let you off the hook. >> vice president biden you're inaccurate when what you're describing. the reality is our plan will bring healthcare to all americans under a medicare for all system. >> she put over 1500 people in jail for marijuana violations and then laughed about it when she was asked if she ever smoked marijuana. >> and now break it all down, we've got rick tyler, republican stra strategist, and joel beninson, former hillary for america senior campaign strategist. rick, this is where the republicans were four years ago. did the democrats go too much at each other instead of donald trump sore that inevitable when you have a field of this size? >> i think the most disturbing thing is they went after president barack obama more so than they did the president of the united states. and it seemed as though a lot of democrats were very upset about
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that, that they weren't taking on the president. there are a few -- there are a few who did, but they were few and far between. and biden, of course, was vice president under barack obama. it does use barack obama's name quite a bit and cory booker called him out for that. but that put them all in a very awkward position, particularly on immigration. i don't understand why biden didn't answer, is although barack obama did have what they say is a record number of deportations, they changed the way they counted them. they turned turnarounds into deportations that. is people who were caught at the border and immediately turned around, that was never counted as a deportation. and that probable li accouny ac the high numbers. i don't know why he didn't bring that to the audience's attention. >> let's talk about joe biden because the overall sense seems to be that he did what he needed to do but didn't wow anybody.
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dana mill bank called him brilliantly and gloriously adequate. and frank broonny writing in the "new york times" saying while he was better prepared and composed, quote, biden hardly put the doubts about his sturdiness and stamina to rest. there's that way in which he trails off at the end of his sentence or argument. all the little hiccups en route. the messy seams connecting one thought to the until. the demeanor that falls into a maddening gray area between engage and fully animated 'if the booker and deblasio traffic in so many exclamation points, biden traffics in too mr. ellipses. joel, what's your sense of that and is that fair? >> full disclosure for the audience, you mentioned hillary. you know i was president obama's post for his campaigns through. i think what you saw last night was unfortunate. i think if candidate hurt any strategist telling him it was a good idea to attack president obama, my advice is to fire him
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as a strategist. the other thing is the basic rule i've had and i've worked on four presidential campaigns, is they're about big things, not small things, they're about the future not the past, and they're about your lives and not your lives. these folks are relitigating fights, looking like exactly what people don't like about washington. and it's why congress has a far worse approval rating right now even in president trump who's had a historically low approval rating ofr any sitting president. think people have to talk more about people's lives out there. we're talking about -- look, also in full disclosure, i've been advising mayor pete buttigieg, right. but i think we have to talk about the situation that people are facing today. incomes are not keeping up. people are looking at the millennial generation. it will likely be the first generation that earns less than their parents. >> and yet, christina, president trump's biggest repetitive argument is look how great the economy is. look how great the stock market is doing. was there an adequate response to what ultimately whatever else is going on, somewhere in
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voterers' mind when i sit around my kitchen table i can pay my bills? can i afford to send my kid to college? am i going to keep my job? >> that was not articulated. there's a fundamental difference between the economy and your pocketbook issues. far so many americans are struggling and they struggled under obama, bush, clinton, this is generational struggle that so many families across the country are going through. people in inner cities, people in suburbs and people in rural areas. so last night when some of the candidates got into the weeds about medicare and healthcare for all, although incredibly important, that is not a direct pocketbook issue that was made a connection with the voters, per se, or people who were watching. and so they should have talked a lot more about not just the billions and trillions we saw those numbers that, you know, lots of candidates were throwing out. but how would that explicitly affect you as either a single parent or a working person or, you know, certain candidates like to use the term working
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class, or union member. that articulation in connection sort of fell flat. and this is why think we can explain why andrew yang is still on the stage. some people were confused. it's because he presents him self as a washington outsider. >> it's very clear, you're going to get a thousand bucks. but having said that, it sounds like that you think that the democrats have failed to some extent. does that mean that they've handed a victory to president trump because he's giving them -- >> oh, no. i'm sorry. i don't think they're all failing. for example, i mentioned pete buttigieg. think he made a very compelling case that we are running out of time as a country. and if we don't start dealing with the crisis of climate change, that there will be in ten years, you know, 100 million more guns on our streets, how long are we going to wait to deal with these? we can't afford to. i think he's playing olaying ou kind of argument and he's not engaging to what's happened in the last 20 years in washington. he's spending more time on what we need to do in the next 20
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years for the country. >> this is why primaries are important. this is a way for candidates to really articulate a clear vision and not everyone's going to make it to the next debate. >> that's right. >> and some of their ideas from, you know, he certain governors had some interesting ideas like last night governor inslee had some really interesting ideas. i didn't think he's going to make it to the next debate. but his important dialogue about climate change will be adopted by harris or booker or biden or buttigieg or whoever makes it to -- >> that's another thing you hear a lot of complaining about. it doesn't allow for the real exchange with this format. is that the problem or is that the problem that -- look, any politician worth his or her salt knows you can answer a question anyway you want. so if you want to get your information out there, watch inslee do this. you can ask him a question about the price of beef and he's going to talk about climate change. >> first listen to debate prep is every question is an opportunity for you to drive your message. that's number one. but let's talk about the format
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for a second. we're looking at ten candidates on stage who are seeing the minute by minute of how much each candidate spoke. they get to speak 18 minutes if they're at the top of the list. think about what we're take about. we were on hair for 2:20 and the most any candidate gets to speak is 18 minutes. i didn't know how else you could deal with it better when you've got 20 candidates in a field. i think when it slims down in september i think we'll see a little more substance, a little more time given to each candidate. hopefully we don't know what it will slim down to at that point. but the format complicates. and that's not a criticism the networks that have had to handle it. i don't think anybody has had a better solution. >> let me tell you to hang out because i want to go back into the field. our road warriors are out there. mike has been covering the biden campaign, vaughn hilliard is there also. mike, today my guess is that members of the vice president's staff are breathing at least a bit of a sigh of relief this
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morning. >> reporter: yeah, absolutely, chris. we're at a restaurant where we expect the former vice president to arrive here probably in the next ten, 15 minutes. i think that's an independent occasion itself of the mood of campaign compared to a mop ago that he's comfortable with the possibility of taking some questions from reporters. maybe not a victory lap, but showing that he took all those attacks and is still standing tall. the mayor of detroit just arrived a neu few minutes ago and he said i was part of debates where was just one on one. i don't know how the vice president stood there with nine other candidates coming at him from all sides and came out still smiling. that's sort of the message of the campaign today. certainly it wasn't the most flawless performance by any means. you talked about some of the verbal stumbles there. and obviously the candidates were going after him on policy. but the lessons were learned after that miami debate when the whole campaign really boils down to who is the best candidate to take on donald trump, they left the miami debate with the impression that perhaps joe biden wasn't ready to take that on. simply by surviving and advancing after last night, taking all those attacks and
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being able to defend himself but go on the defensive that he can reverse that narrative. obviously the other part of all of this is they want to be able to -- joe biden has the stature with democrats to absorb those attacks in a different way than some of those other candidates and he was able to introduce new information especially about kamala harris and her record as attorney general. >> meantime, let's go over to vaughn because senator harris widely regarded as the big winner in the first set of debates, not so much last night. to be fair, she took a lot more incoming than she did the first time around. what are you hearing there? >> reporter: exactly. and that first debate it was kamala harris was the one that opened up that door to critiquing records, of that former vice president biden. it all came back to her in last night's debate, not only on her criminal justice background over as district attorney out of san francisco and as attorney general of the state of california, but also on her healthcare plan. and this is risk. on monday she decided to put out her own new healthcare plan, a version of medicare for all that
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would allow private insurers to offer plans as part of that medicare for all system. but what you saw was not only incoming fire from joe biden, but you saw it even from the likes of michael bennet that was going toe to toe and critiquing kamala harris's record. when you're up there, the only person that's going to defend your record is yourself. and that's exactly what kamala harris tried to do at about a very nuanced proposal. that was her health care plan. i had the opportunity to go through that white page there, but it was suddenly kamala harris that was trying to describe to the american public what her plan actually was and offer up that context. now it's a matter of how did iowa caucus five months from now, not only going into these debates but going to campaign events and trying to articulate exactly what her plan is and why it is that middle ground between where somebody like joe biden is with the public option and where bernie sanders and elizabeth warren are. a campaign adviser told me earlier that there's no need to be concerned after last night, that, you know, you should
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expect to be on that campaign stage and to be taking that fire. and it's a matter of holding firm and showing that you're willing to defend yourself and say like for her criminal justice background it's a net positive going ahead towards a general election. >> all right. thank you so much for being out on the trail. we appreciate that. christina, give me your sense of that. because, you know, you have to be able to take a hit. and she certainly got a lot of fire her way. but was she any clearer really on the healthcare issue? did she defend herself well given her background as part of the criminal justice system? >> right. i think the bar for her was much higher. and so her -- >> always right when you're going up on the polls. >> yeah. >> the higher you are the bigger the target. >> exactly. and her showing in miami was quite impressive. >> yeah. >> for a lot of people and introduced her to quite a few people. i think because it was a new proposal her defense of that was probably not as sharp as she normally is, especially as a
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prosecutor. and i do think that, you know, tulsi gabbard's attacks definitely threw her off because she was not -- i don't know if she was anticipating them from that particular candidate. but i think we've seen this time and time again with candidates. the second debate sometimes they falter and then they recover. i don't think that it's too late for her. i don't think that she fell off of the first tier. i do think that this articulation of her healthcare plan and her past will be redirected so when we see the debate in september we'll probably see a very clear and decisive framing of the past, like her past career, the present, what she's doing now and what she wants to do, and thin the future vision, as you said before, for the country if she's chosen as president. >> and we talked about the fact that it did seem like obama was running last night at some points the way they were going after him. having said that, there was some fire aimed at president trump. let me just play a little set of
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clips here. >> folks -- >> mr. president, this is america. and we are stronger and great because of this diversity, mr. president. not -- not in spite of it, mr. president. >> mr. president, kids belong in classrooms, not cages. >> when we look back in history at what happened when a president of the united states started acting more like an authoritarian leader than the leader of the free world, the question is, is what will we have done? >> he needs to be held accountable. i've seen people go to prison for far less. >> we'll say together adios to donald trump. >> the first thing i'm going to do when i'm president is i'm going to clorox the oval office. >> for a lot of people, the other side of the argument is all the democratic primary voters already can't stand donald trump, already are not going to vote for him, have already heard everything that we just heard in those clips.
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so maybe it makes sense to differentiate themselves as oppose go opposed to going against donald trump. or, some of them in being so obvious maybe didn't aim their fire at donald trump in the most effective way? >> look, i think -- you've got to read polls in depth not just for the superficial top line results you get. beating donald trump is the antifor any democrat. he's probably the antifor the majority of independents and a handful of republicans. of course that's going to be an issue. but the way you show people that you beat donald trump is by beating the people that you're running against in the primaries. at this point we had april open seat, it was a little different in 2007. barack obama wasn't leading in a single poll nationally, iowa, or in new hampshire at this point. we've got a long way to go here and what people want to see is can you convince me you are the right person to be president of the united states for what we need that the moment in time? because that's what they care about. they know they're going vote for the democrat, most people,
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right, what are going to vote for a democrat, they're already in line. >> yeah. >> they want to be know, are you really going to make my life better or not? a lot of what we see in these debates in part because of the format isn't showcasing that enough yet. a lot of it is, but it's not enough yet. >> it's the nuance that people really want. it's the details. so lots of people want healthcare and they want to keep the aca. how will you do it as the democratic nominee? will it be for everyone? will my taxes go up? i think these are some of the questions that democratic primary and then ultimately democratic voters want to know. >> for example, bernie sanders has been talking about his medicare for all, no private insurance for two campaigns. he pointed across the river to canada. in capd you can buy private insurance if you wanted. as you can in every other country like france, england, germany that offer a big government-run insurance program. let's have an honest debate about what we really can do to make healthcare better instead of nonsense over whether or not having private insurance and government medicare for all plan works. both can work and that's what
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most democracies do. >> christina greer, thank you so much. great to have you here. joel and rick you'll stick around so you'll be back. but back on the attack, president trump hitting the road this afternoon for his first rally since those shocking moments. his last rally crowd launched in those send her back chants. will we see a replay? plus with round two out of the way, which democratic candidates did enough to ensure they'd make it to the next stage and which ones most likely took their final bow? we'll break it down. but first, as we head to break here's what some viewers we caught up with had to say about last night. >> i think julian castro had another good night i think cory booker had a good night. >> this debate didn't move the ball. everyone went for joe biden tonight. none of it really seemed to lag. >> i don't like it when they start tearing each other down. >> bill deblasio doesn't really impress cy me. ♪ and with bank of america and merrill,
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[ screaming ] look at the two of you. the fate of the world is in your hands and you can't even get along. what do you think i'm stupid? of course i think you're stupid. woo! i got him. no i got him. no i got him.
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. there is a big crush looming over president trump's rally tonight in cincinnati. will there be those center back chants about sa mol will he born congresswoman ilhan omar? tonight is trump's first rally since then and the ohio campaign will be a crucial test for the president and the crowd. the associated press reports even his closest advisers seem uncertain as to what may transpire. after condemnation from democrats and discomfort from many republicans, the president claimed he tried to stop his supporters from chanting last month. a claim disputed by the
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videotape. here's how it played out. >> if i may, when your supporters last night were chanting send her back, why didn't you stop them? why didn't you ask them to stop saying that? >> well, number one, i think did i. i started speaking very quickly. it really was a -- i disagree with it by the way. but it was quite a chant. and i felt a little bit badly about it. but i will say this, i did -- and i started speaking very quickly. but it start upped rather -- rather fast, as you probably know. >> joining me now is philip rucker, "the washington post" white house bureau chief. republican strategist rick tyler is back. what are you hearing from the president's circle both about his reaction to these chants from his supporters and how far he's likely to push tonight should it come up again? >> well, i think, chris, people in the president's circle would be very surprised if he were to forcefully push back on his own
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supporters. he has not shown a willingness to ever really do that before. in fact, he stopped short of condemning racism and white supremacy and anti-semitism and all sorts of other things in past incidences during the campaign and earlier in the presidency. we'll see what transpires tonight in ohio. i'm not sure that that kind of chant would actually take form. it might be that a lot of these supporters have somehow gotten the message from what the president said there and what others like vice president pence have said in the media about the chant and may not to do it. but if they were do it, i would be really surprised if the president told them to stop it. >> what do you think? what are the chances, rick, you know the base of the party. what are the chances the crowd starts this if he brings up the squad? is it not going to happen? would he stop it? or is this the new lock her up and it's just going to be out there now through the campaign? >> well, the president is, you know, painted himself into a corner and is now, you know, or
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into the cul-de-sac. >> but does he ever really paint himself in the corner? >> well, he's going to do these rallies and they're always going to have chants and the latest chant is send them back or send her back and he means africo, which is a racist thing. if i were a young ambitious democrat operative i'd make sure i was in that crowd and get that chant going. it's not hard to get a chant going. so it's a dangerous thing. and then we'll see if the crowd gets the way they did before and starts chanting, we'll see what his reaction is. because, as phil says, it's hard to imagine that he's going to admonish them. >> and there's another thing that's coming up in the mid of all of this in these attacks on the squad. a north carolina gun shop owner has put up a billboard with the biblical phrase four horsemen also associated with the bible and it's a reference to the end
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of the earth. it has the pictures not of four horsemen but of the four women who are known as the squad. rashida tlaib tweeted last night, how the hell is this not inciting violence? and anna pressley said cherokee guns is in your district and you and i serve on a committee together. here is your chance to finally do the right thing. rick, do you think anybody's going to do the right thing in terms of this? the billboard, the president's rhetoric? we haven't heard a whole lot of it. >> gosh, there's so many issues. >> they're all wrapped up in one. but there is something about being in the president's own party and standing up and saying, this is wrong. mark meadows, tell the people in your district this is wrong. president trump, say this is wrong. >> look, using -- well, look, the president attacked these women in a racist way and now the gun store is using that racism and quoting revelations.
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you know, it's such a conundrum, the whole thing. i do think meadows should speak out against it because they're using -- they're using trump's racism in an ad to sell firearms. so, you know, it's -- >> you're at a loss for words. that doesn't happen very often. >> there's about 15 directions you could go on this. >> well, south bend, indiana, mayor pete buttigieg encapsulated the big picture on this at tuesday night's debate. i want to play that. >> if you are watching this at home and you are a republican member of congress, consider the fact that when the sun sets on your career and they are writing your story, of all the good and bad things you did in your life, the thing you will be remembered for is whether in this moment, with this president you found the courage to stand up to him or you continued to put party over country. >> the democrats watching that debate will agree with that, phil ruck, he are but is there
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anybody in the white house or in the president's circle who are worried that that is a message that will be significant enough to stick? >> you know, chris, it may be a message that holds through the course of this long campaign ahead of us. but there's very little concern in trump's orbit that somehow republican members of congress after three years are going to, you know, really stand up to the president. this is donald trump's party right now. and the republicans who were willing to stand up to donald trump have left the party. they're no longer in the senate. some of them are no longer in their elected offices. >> and by the way, quite a few from the house have already said that they're not going to run for re-election, including the woman who was in charge. >> that's right. >> of getting people to run. >> that's right. and so this is trump's party. there have been so many instances over the last two 1/2 years of his presidency where there's been pressure on republican leaders on capitol hill to confront him and condemn him. and they have not done so. and, you know, critics would say they sherked their moral
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obligations and responsibilities. i don't see that changing. >> thank you. still ahead, the great septembered when september whittling. we'll break down who will stay and who is likely to go. and with detroit playing host, it's clear democrats are keenly focused on the rust belt and winning back michigan and the other states that donald trump turned red. did their performances help? t dd trump turned red did their performances help? let's see, aleve is proven better on pain than tylenol extra strength. and last longer with fewer pills. so why am i still thinking about this? i'll take aleve. aleve. proven better on pain.
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right now, two debates down and one big question looming over the democratic candidates for the next 28 days. will they make the cut for the september debate when the criteria is a lot harder to meet? big picture. the dnc rules have two very straightforward qualifications, both must be met. you have to register at least 2% in four qualified polls and have at least 130,000 unique donors. right now, only seven of them are in. former vice president joe biden, senators cory booker, kamala harris, bernie sanders, elizabeth warren, mayor pete buttigieg, and former congressman beto o'rourke. three more are close. amy klobuchar has the polling numbers but not the donors.
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julian castro and andrew yang have the donors but not the polling numbers. that leaves the rest of the candidates, they've been on that stage before, work hard for their money. last night, nine of the ten candidates took another shot at picking up some cash. >> if you believe like i do, please go to cory booker.com and join the mission. >> i hope you will consider going to jay inslee.com. >> i hope you'll go to julian castro.com. >> enter your zip code at yang 2020.com and see what a thousand dollars a month would mean to your community. >> go to tax the hell.com and join us so we can build a country that puts working people first. >> please join me at michael bennet.com. thanks for being here tonight. >> please join me at kamala harris.org and i thank you yore your time. >> if you agree with me, go to joe 30330 and help me in this fight. >> please go to kirsten
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gillibrand.com so i can make the next debate stage. >> please join me at msnbc with political editor mark murray and the former vp for the center of progress who hosts the podcast emily tissue sussman. mark, slets start with the basics. who looks most likely to jump into the candidate make the next debate and who is the most vulnerable? >> basically as you mentioned beyond those throw three who ar likelies and prok probables, amy cob char, andrew yang and julian castro, the person i think who has the best shot of making that debate stage is tom steyer just with the amount of money that he's already dropping in tv tiedmen advertisements, using his email lists to help raise money. i wouldn't be surprised if he gets into the conversation here. but as far as who misses it, i
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do think that the rest of field, if you aren't that top ten or top 11, it's going to be really difficult to make that debate stage. and, chris, you know, we heard the candidates talk about please give me money. but there's only one part of the equation. cracking that 2% in the polls has been very difficult just given the size of the field. even after the last debate when he in miami with people who had good performances, julian castro, cory booker, it was hard to go beyond 1%, 2% in the polls given the size of the field. >> and the debate's in september but the deadline is august 28th, is that right, mark? >> yes. >> emily, i've heard various, you know, estimates of the 20 people who have been on the debate stage, as many as six, eight, even ten could be gone. what's your expectation? what are you watching for and who do you think is in real trouble here? >> look, it's not that much fun to run for president when you have no money do it. your staff -- >> the first presidential
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campaign i ever covered i was like why would anyone put themselves through this. but running for office in general. >> it's brutal and grueling. but if you're going out there and trying to raise the funds just to get even on the ballot in some of the states, it's very expensive to get on the ballot in south carolina, nevada. so if your campaign doesn't have the money to buy the voter file and do serious campaign work, your staff's getting demoralized, but you can't raise the non keep going. candidates that need breakout performances that didn't have them, didn't perform well, i think we'll start to see them drop pritty quickly. >> who would you put in that category? >> i'd probably put de blasio in that category. i think tim ryan struggled. i think michael bennet made good points but didn't come off well especially on a stage where there were stars breaking out. i wouldn't be surprised to see if their fundraising numbers plummet. >> the other thing is that for some of these folks, it may be their staff who is saying to them, you know, this might not be your year.
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there are alternatives, right? who is sort of got something out there, mark, that looks like, all right, this is the next best thing? >> yeah, and, chris, we have seen people who have missed the debate stage and keep their candidacies steve bullock missed that first debate performance, hung and got into last night's debate. but more likely than nout not, you end up becoming kind of like sixth sense movie where you end up seeing dead men walking where you have a candidacy but you're not hitting that debate stage. and as emily was pointing out, it's hard to raise money and it's hard to keep staff. >> i just had this vision of watching the debates and thinking i see dead people. >> it is. and so, chris, this whittling is very real. to me, the whittling occurs on if you make the debate stage or not, if you don't make it it's hard to keep your candidacy
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afloat. >> emily, 28 days, which is what we're looking at here, is a really compressed period of time if you're one of those people that's on the cusp. are there things that people can really do? is there sort of an accepted strategy for getting there? and obviously i think for all -- for most of them you're probably doing better in one area than the other, right? >> yes and no. i think that we -- >> i'm thinking about say a pete buttigieg who's got plenty of money but it hasn't seemed to help him move significantly in the polls. >> well, he has moved significantly in the polls i think because he's raised a lot of money. look, voters in the early states are looking at the same things a lot of us are looking at. yes, they spend more face time with the candidate. but they're look at polls as well. i was in iowa last week speaking with progressives on the ground and undecided and meeting with a lot of candidates and a lot of what they told me is they are very open to a couple of different candidates and they are watching the national polls as well. so what we saw in the first debate is harris had a spike
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because she did well. i do expect after this debate we'll see booker having a spike as well. focus groups of undecided voters last night were saying they thought that he won the debate and are taking a second look at him. so if he has that spike in the numbers -- >> castro maybe? >> i thought did he incredibly well after the first debate and equally well in this one. he's kind of my dark horse here. but if he has that moment i think there's a real opportunity for it, especially given people with the front runners going into the second night, harris and biden, did not to do as well. >> i heard a lot of buzz about castro when i was in iowa i think a month or so ago. but then again your second and third choices don't don't necessarily matter when somebody calls you and says who's your top pick. >> and that's why it's a real question how the good polling is and how much value we can put into it right now. >> emily tish sussman, mark murray, interesting stuff that we'll be watching closely over the next month. we mentioned billionaire tom steyer is a candidate to watch. he'll be on with me tomorrow during this hour here on msnbc 11:00 eastern. we'll talk to him about who he
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plans to make the next debate because we know, we've been saying it, the criteria is awfully tough. up next, reaching the rust belt. which democrats did the best job of convincing voters they can win back the states that swung from obama to trump? we're going to ask someone who knows better than most how to reach voters in those areas. th reach voters in those areas.
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do you have concerns about mild memory loss related to aging? prevagen is the number one pharmacist-recommended memory support brand. you can find it in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. democrats face a big challenge with a key group of voters they've counted on for years but lost in 2016. so far, cook political report
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calls arizona, florida, michigan, pennsylvania, and wisconsin the swing states for 2020. but three of them specifically, michigan, pennsylvania, wisconsin, represent the code they have to crack if they want to win the white house back. rust belt states that obama won. clinton did not. how did they do it? joining me now is michigan congresswoman debbie dingell. it's always good to see you. and these candidates stood on the stage in your states and so i'm really really curious, did r them make a strong case to voters who abandon the democrats two 1/2 years ago to folks who are losing their plants at the gm plant in warren, michigan, because that's closing, do you think that they were won over last night? >> i don't want to be negative, i love all 20 of these candidates, many of them are my friends, but i was disappointed in these two days of debates. i think we had too much
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practicing of lines to take jabs at people and not enough talking about issues that matter to working men and women. you know, you're in michigan, trade is a big issue. i quite frankly strongly believe that it's an issue that helped get president trump elected. vice president -- >> and won voters -- one voterst part of the country understand. >> and shutter plants. and by the way, vice president pence is coming to michigan next wednesday. they waited and announced it today because they didn't want to interfere or the group that's hosting them didn't want to interfere with the democratic debates. and, you know, it's -- like the fact of the matter is, i want a new nafta. but the new nafta we're looking at right now still lets mexico pay general motors plant that they announced they were putting there last august. so it hasn't been a year yet, they're paying $1.50 an hour.
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our workers understand that they're not competing on a level playing field. and until we do something that gives our workers a level playing field, they're frustrated. but we've got to tell our workers why that's a bad deal for them and how we're fight doing something for them. >> i know it's hard to do sometimes in a minute or even 30 seconds, but let me just show you an example and get your reaction. senator bernie sanders who has spent his entire career fighting for the little guy, fighting for the working men, that's the case he makes. but i want to play for you a little exchange from "morning joe" today. >> how do you, how do the democrats win those working-class union members back in 2020? >> well, that say great question, joe, and i think the future of america depends upon us coming up with that answer. i think the first thing that i hope many of the people who voted for trump understand, is that he is a pathological liar. and it gives me no pleasure to say that. but that's what he is.
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he says anything that comes to his mind that he thinks will get votes. but he has no intention of carrying through on his promises. >> but is that to your point that we've got come up with a plan? this isn't new, you know, you're from michigan, i'm from ohio, the plant in my town closed where i grew up. so is it that they don't actually have an answer or just the debate format didn't give them the right opportunity? >> i suspect that, you know, it would have been good if people had tried to get to some of those issues and people spent a lot of time on healthcare and immigration in the questions. but i think they should have been prepared and if you wanted to make a point, you had the opportunity to make a point. i want to say something to everybody. we're not going to win this election by being anti-trump. you know, i'm out there, i'm at farmer's markets and union halls every week. and they get it. they know exactly who he is on
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his rhetoric. they don't approve of the negative tone of some of his tweets. but they want to hear -- they feel like their jobs are better off, that somebody cares about them. in 2016, they didn't think democrats cared about them. they didn't think that they were going to go fight for their job, for their pensions, or fight to keep their jobs here. and we got to learn to be for something and how to talk about how we care about working men and women. that they make enough money to live in a safe neighborhood, that they can afford to put food on their table. if they're sick not have to think about whether they can go to the doctor but be able to go to the doctor, afford their medicine. and when it comes time to retire, that they're going to have a safe and secure retirement. it's really basic and the we're not doing a good job of talking about basics. put education in there too. educate the young kids and they want to get on education without staggering student debt. >> good to have you on the program. thank you so much. ahead, the new report shedding more light on the relationship between president trump and accused sexual
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predator and financier jeffrey epstein. one of the reporters looking into their falling out will join me next. their falling out willn me next. that needs to get done today. small things. big things. too hard to do alone things. day after day, you need to get it all done. and here to listen and help you through it all is bank of america. with the expertise and know-how you need to reach that blissful state of done-ness. so let's get after it. ♪ everything is all right what would you like the power to do?® ♪ all right what would you like the power to do?® this is not just a headache. this is not just a fever. this is not just the flu. it's meningitis b... and you're not there to help. while meningitis b is uncommon... once symptoms appear, they can progress quickly and can be fatal... sometimes within 24 hours. before you send your teen to college... make sure you help protect them.
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and this is me now! i got liberty mutual. they customized my car insurance, so i only pay for what i need. then i won the lottery, got hair plugs, and started working out. and so can you! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ >> so what you're looking at is a live picture of joe biden fresh off his debate performance, which got decent reviews. he is at the detroit one coney restaurant. that is a place where you can get everything from foot-long all-beef hot dogs to wraps,
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lunch, dinner. it's part of a renovation, kind of a coney island from new york style area of detroit. there he is meeting with all the folks and he's with the mayor, by the way, of detroit who has endorsed him. we're going to keep our eye on that. in the meantime, there's been some new and disturbing reporting on accused sex trafficking jeffrey epstein. he believed he could improve the population of the world by seeding with his dna and that he court famous and highly esteemed scientists into his circle, although there's no evidence anything ever came of it. and then there's the "washington post" with one answer to the question president trump wouldn't answer himself. what happened between him and epstein? they were once wealthy neighbors in palm beach, florida da. here you see him partying at the president's mar-a-lago club.
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>> i did have a fallout a long time ago. the reason doesn't make any difference, frankly, but i haven't spoken to him in probably 15 years or more. i wasn't a big fan of jeffrey epstein. that i can tell you. he was very well known in palm beach. his island, whatever his island was, wherever it is, i was never there. find out the people that went to the island. but jeffrey epstein was not somebody that i respected. i threw him out. >> the president there declining to say what led to their falling out, but the "washington post" reports a competition to buy a prime ocean front palm beach mansion with a view of the atlantic ultimately led to the parting of the ways. so good to see you. walk us through, in what way, how did that mansion lead to these two guys who seemed to be pretty chummy, having this falling out?
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>> i don't know if we can say for sure that that is what led to the falling out, but we know that they did compete for this house, as the president said, that he hadn't spoken to jeffrey epstein in 15 years. this was in 2004, 15 years ago. they both participated in this bankruptcy auction in which at stake was this very majestic ocean front six-acre estate. trump said that he would turn it into the second most amazing house after mar-a-lago. jeffrey epstein source told us was interested in actually living there and tried to get the upper hand before the auction by putting in a bid and terms that were considered favorable. but once the bidding got started, donald trump's attorney was extremely aggressive and, you know, matching or one-upping every bid that came in. trump himself was on the phone,
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over speaker phone and chimed in a couple of times. and trump walked way the winner with a $31.45 million high bid. four years later, he flipped that property for $95 million. >> so basically doubled his money. but as you report it, and we know that the president doesn't take kindly to people who speak ill of him. there was some, for lack of a better term, kind of trash talking between the two guys as part of the business of trying to convince the person who was selling you don't want to sell it to the other guy, right? >> right. the trusty in the case said that before the auction both camps came to him and said we just want to know that that other guy, he doesn't have the money. you should really work with us. that other guy can't close the deal. so there was sort of an attempt to disparage the other before the auction got started. >> anything in your reporting that would suggest why the
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president has been hesitant to say specifically why there was this breach in their relationship, however close it may or may not have been? >> i don't know that i can answer that. i mean, we know that they -- you know, they went head-to-head in this auction. we know shortly after that the criminal investigation began into jeffrey epstein. as news of that leaked out, he obviously became sort of a toxic figure. he and trump were not spotted socializing together after that auction in 2004. >> beth, it's a great story. people can read it in the "washington post." thank you so much. and ahead in the next hour, one of the men on stage last night, colorado senator michael bennet will join my colleague, andrea mitchell. i think it's here. (mom vo) especially at this age. (big sister) where are we going? (mom vo) it's a big, beautiful world out there. (little sister) woah... (big sister) wow. see that? (mom vo) sometimes you just need a little help seeing it. (avo) the three-row subaru ascent.
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that wraps up this hour of "msnbc live." "andrea mitchell reports" starts right now. hi, andrea. >> hi, thank you. right now on "andrea mitchell reports," family feud. joe biden under fire from all sides and this time not just from kamala harris. >> tonight i think democrats are expecting some engagement here, and i expect they'll get it. >> under your plan, status quo, you do nothing to hold the insurance companies to task. >> mr. vice president, it looks like one of us has learned the lessons of the past and one of us hasn't. >> vice president biden, i didn't hear your responses when the issue came up of all the deportations. >> there's a saying in my
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