tv The 11th Hour With Brian Williams MSNBC August 1, 2019 8:00pm-9:00pm PDT
mueller that russia is interfering in our elections. so he says he didn't raise it while on the phone with putin. we will go live to louisville tonight as the senate majority leader who has to win election to keep his job title is angrily trying to shake off his nickname. after last night's friendly fire debate where even obama was under attack, impeachment talk is still growing and their hopes are rising in texas of all places with a big name retirement making news tonight. all of it as the 11th hour gets underway on a thursday evening. underway on a thursday evening. good evening once again here in new york. this was day 924 of this trump administration. and it was something the president said this afternoon that got our attention late today. this was in response to a question about the ongoing russian attack on our elections
system, the warning that was just repeated by robert mueller just a few days ago. days ago. >> you don't really believe this. do you believe this? we didn't talk about that. i spoke with president putin of russia yesterday. they're having massive fires in the forests. they have tremendous -- i have never seen anything like it. it's very big. i just offered our assistance because we are very good at putting out forest fires, frankly. i watched mueller. i'm not sure mueller knows what's going on. i know he said no collusion with us. no collusion and ultimately no obstruction because it led to no obstruction by a very smart dprup of people including our attorney general. so no collusion, no obstruction. as far as mueller's performance, you would have to say it was
maybe not so good. >> about their first response by the president, you don't really believe that. never before has our country felt more vulnerable to attack in real time, in this case because we've been told we're under an ongoing attack in real time, while at the same time that view is not shared by the head of our government who took the oath about preserving and protecting our way of life. his view now famously extends to his enforcer in the senate who has now been tagged with the nickname moscow mitch for not allowing election hardening legislation for being brought up for a vote before the senate. it was just last week the senate intelligence committee released a report that concluded, russia targeted elections systems in all of our 50 states. then this past weekend, we learned that the director of
national intelligence dan coats will step down later this month. trump famously sided with putin over coats while he was along side the russian leader there in helsinki. and for good measure, here is how robert mueller summed up the ongoing attack from russia. >> is this in your investigation did you think that this was a single attempt by the russians to get involved in our election or did you find evident to suggest to try to do it again. >> they'll do it as we are sitting here. we expect to do it during the next campaign. >> it was right after that testimony from mueller that mcconnell blocked the election security legislation in the senate. he defended the move in the face of attacks from democrats and the news media. we'll have much more on that later on. after fending off attacks from democrats, former vice president joe biden spoke to reporters today about donald trump's very
narrow path to victory back in 2016. >> if i get the nomination, i will win michigan. i promise you that. i will win pennsylvania. i will win ohio. i will win these states that he got 72 extra thousand votes on to give himself an election. it's not this great migration to him. it didn't occur. we're talking about 72,500 votes in three states and change, otherwise hillary clinton would be a president with a margin of over 3 million votes. >> on the upside, this moment almost got by us tonight, a seemingly monumental update from the president at his rally on our national health. this is from cincinnati tonight. >> the things we're doing in our country today, there is never been anything like it. we will be ending the aids epidemic shortly in america and
curing childhood cancer very shortly. >> we've got that going for us. here for our leadoff discussion on a thursday night, philip rut gr, former u.s. attorney joyce vance who spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor and philip mud for both cia counter terrorist center and the fbi's national security branch. he also happens to be the author of the new book that we'll be talking about later in this hour. it is called black site, the cia in the post 9/11 world. good evening and welcome to all of you. you don't really believe that was kind of a toss off answer by the president to a subject that defines who we are and what we've become now, so much so that on the legal realm on just social media last night in the public domain the bots went to
work with messaging trying to foment racial division just in the hours after the democratic debate. >> this is not some sort of partisan point of view. this is fact according to our intelligence agencies, according to all of our intelligence agencies. it's not just former special counsel robert mueller who testified to it, but the president's own hand picked intelligence chiefs including dan coats, the soon to be former director of national intelligence who had been warning for several years now that russia is continuing to try to interfere in our election, will try to do so again in 2020 and other countries may follow suit. this is a profound serious threat to american democracy and also one that the president does not take seriously. we have seen where he has denied the intelligence that russia has tried to interfere in the election. it is rooted in his own feelings about his own election, his insecurity that by admitting
that russia did this interference campaign it would somehow delegitimize trump's electoral victory. >> and joyce vance, something that speaks to your line of work, our friend ken vogual tweeted out this. new court filing, rick gates is still cooperating with prosecutors and is a potential witness in the trials of greg craig for lying about ukrainian work, roger stone for lying about wiki leaks and paul manafort. what is the take away here? >> rick gates seems to be one of the most successful cooperators that the mueller investigation produced. i don't think that there is anything very surprising here. we knew that he would cooperate. the beginning work on a report is relatively routine. it has to happen before a
defendant can be sentenced. he has to have access to it sufficiently in advance to review it and make any objections. i think the biggest piece of information we get out of this filing is that apparently gates' cooperation is coming to an end. he won't for instance apparently be a witness in anything to do with the inaugural investigation that is believed to be underway. >> and now phil mud by way of welcoming you here, this is where your life's work intersects with the news today. when you hear the president say you don't really believe that do you? what happens inside you internally? and what's the reality. >> it makes me hurt. i spent 25 years doing this. the president has three responsibilities here. somebody has to confront the russians. clearly the president is not going to do that. if you want to confront this,
somebody has to bring a hammer on the bureiocracy. they don't work together extremely well unless somebody in the oval office says let me tell you what to do. the part we are clearly missing is somebody has to tell the american people here is what to watch out for. there is only one spokesperson for america and that's the president. he's telling people don't worry about it. >> how are your colleagues in the business dealing with this kind of talk? >> i think when you're in the business, you look at the leadership that crow have, most of the colleagues i have don't meet with the president. and that leadership has to represent the truth. i know the cia director. i guarantee you she is saying we have a mission objective that doesn't change regardless of democrat or republican or whether the president tweets. it's demoralizing as someone who spends a career in the service for the president to attack you. he has attacked me personally.
the mission is so compelling. if you are looking at the russians trying to come after an election system, you're going to be motivated. >> among mueller's legacies, i guess it must be said he warned at the start and at the finish of his nine-minute press statement, he warned in print for all to see. and he warned as recently as the questioning with will herd who is in the news tonight, about the ongoing attacks. so his legacy must include the fact that he was loud and he was clear on just this topic. >> this always seemed to be the point that mueller most wanted to emphasize to the american people. it was up front in the report early on in the summary of the report that he issued. he has reiterated it in that
nine-minute statement. i thought that that was the most forceful part of his testimony. i guess it was only last week where he wanted to make certain that people knew that not only had there been attacks -- and that was the conclusion of all 17 of the agencies in the intelligence community that russia had attacked our election. mueller wanted to make sure people knew it was still ongoing and that it would be a threat in 2020. so shame on the president for trying to set that call aside for his own political purposes. >> let's talk about the president's nominee to be director director of national intelligence. a man who was seemingly auditioning for the job on live cable television. it is said that his nomination is in trouble. it is further said for republicans who don't want to cross the president, they could maybe find good reason in his resume to go against this guy.
tell our viewers what you know. >> so there is increasing doubt about his nomination because of the investigation going on into his background by so many news organizations. my colleagues at the "washington post" have a piece out tonight that says his top qualification for this job is his role on the house intelligence committee, but he has effectively been awol in that rolle. he has not gone on the overseas trips. he breezes in and out of meetings. he doesn't spend a lot of time in the classified reading room becoming familiar with documents. he doesn't pay a lot of visits to the u.s. intelligence agencies that he would be directing. he is not known at the cia and other agencies. and the collective feeling within the intelligence community when he was nominated was who? this is according to their
reporting. >> i'm imagining a learning curve to be director of national intelligence is steep. i also want to point out, there is a deputy under dni coats ready to serve day one. she didn't get the nod. >> we're talking about experience. clearly this individual is light on experience. i suppose you can learn on the job. some of the people in the job bring tons of experience. the question i would ask is about judgment. look what the president said today raising questions about russian interference going into an election cycle. you have someone proven to be a cheerleader for the president. is he going to say to the intelligence community i'll speak to you? or is he going to say i know the intel guys are concerned about russia. i would be worried about judgment and whether he will reflect facts or presidential politics.
>> what must be the reaction in a place like russia to a day like today that we have just witnessed in this country? just from the standpoint of cost benefit analysis, they've spent nothing. and they've burrowed firmly into our society in politics. >> you can do it remotely overseas. the cost to the russians has been relatively modest. i think one of the reasons that the special counsel was warning about this is not just today, the future. you're running for congress for the third, fourth term. you have been a heavy proponent of sanctions against russia. the russians hate you. i can see a scenario where the russians start to steal information not just to effect national politics, but about you personally, information from your e-mails just to seed it. i'm worried about the future and how refined the operations get from overseas to attack
politicians individually. we've just seen chapter one. >> that's a heavy subject. for now, to philip mud, philip rut gr, joyce vance, our thanks for starting off our conversation tonight. coming up, pressure on mitch mcconnell building as the democrats see a new opportunity to push him out of the halls of congress or dream about it. they've certainly given him a new nickname. another missile launch from north korea to which the president says in response, no problem. as we call it around here a thursday night, the 11th hour just getting underway. nightth just getting underway. i switched to miralax for my constipation. stimulant laxatives forcefully stimulate the nerves in your colon. miralax works with the water in your body to unblock your system naturally. and it doesn't cause bloating, cramping, gas, or sudden urgency. miralax. look for the pink cap. (door bell rings) it's ohey.
this is amazing. with moderate to severe ulcerative colitis, are you okay? even when i was there, i never knew when my symptoms would keep us apart. so i talked to my doctor about humira. i learned humira can help get, and keep uc under control when other medications haven't worked well enough. and it helps people achieve control that lasts. so you can experience few or no symptoms. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. be there for you, and them. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, control is possible. you wouldn't accept from any one else.
why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase relieves your worst symptoms including nasal congestion, which most pills don't. flonase helps block 6 key inflammatory substances. most pills only block one. flonase. i switched to geico and saved hundreds. that's a win. but it's not the only reason i switched. geico's a company i can trust, with over 75 years of great savings and service. ♪ now that's a win-win. switch to geico. it's a win-win. here, hello! starts switwith -hi!mple...
how can i help? a data plan for everyone. everyone? everyone. let's send to everyone! [ camera clicking ] wifi up there? -ahhh. sure, why not? how'd he get out?! a camera might figure it out. that was easy! glad i could help. at xfinity, we're here to make life simple. easy. awesome. so come ask, shop, discover at your xfinity store today.
moscow mitch, that being mitch mcconnell. moscow mitch blocks two bills. moscow mitch keeps killing any bill that will protect american democracy. moscow mitch is aiding and abetting vladimir putin's ongoing attempts to subvert american democracy. moscow mitch won't even let the senate take a vote on it. that is unamerican. >> that just this past friday left such a mark that it's now possible to say this, if indeed the u.s. senate passes bipartisan legislation to protect and harden our defenses against the russians, it may be thanks to former florida
republican congressman and current msnbc morning joe host joe scarborough. senate must juajority leader mi mcconnell is not happy to have this new nickname. he has to be reelected in kentucky first if he wants to stay must just leajority leader blocked legislation critics say would stop the kind of interference russia carried out hence the moscow mitch nickname. it got air time last night in the democratic debate. >> mitch mcconnell is the one that lets him off the hook they -- his friend mitch mcconnell moscow mitch let him off the hook. >> the "new york times" reports mitch mcconnell is quote incensed by the name and more mythed he has been called a
russian asset. n asset. the kentucky democratic party is capalizing on this dispute selling items including but not limited to this t shirt with the words. this week the majority leader publicly defended himself on a speech on the senate floor. >> i was called unpatriotic, unamerican and essentially treason s. i was accused of aiding and abetting the very man i singled out as an adversary and opposed for nearly 20 years, vladimir putin. welcome to modern day mccarthyism. >> with us philip bailey, political writer for the louisville courier journal and anita kumar of politico. very good to have you both. philip, special thanks for you
for joining us from there. i don't know much, but i know the good people of kentucky don't love russia. with that in mind, how much has this nickname in your view and in your reporting taken hold. >> well, look, senator mitch mcconnell loves a political fight. he brags about how he has 600 cartoons mocking him in his senate office. and don blackingship referred to some cocaine being on a shipping port, he embraced that with cocaine mitch t shirts. the confidence of senator mcconnell i have spoken with tell me this has gotten to him a little bit here. that's because other than perhaps his fight against campaign finance reform and free speech what senator mcconnell holds dear to him are pro democratic views and hawkish views when it comes to the
alliance. it's a key point of his philosophical standpoint. i think this issue has gotten to senator mcconnell in a way that previous criticisms have not. >> this is from greg miller's book in which he describes a briefing that then cia director john brennan gave to mcconnell about russian interference before the 2016 election. as brennan moves through his talking points, the kentucky senator expressed no alarm about what russia might be doing in the u.s. election and instead accused the cia director of playing politics. you're trying to screw the republican candidate, mcconnell said. what could be a motive here of being the plauker eblocker bet us and a piece of legislation
designed to help. >> well, people who have reported on this a little bit more have said that it could be a couple different things. one of the things is that he doesn't want to get involved in state issues. but as you've hinted, others have speculated or talked to people who have said that perhaps he is seeing something here that he doesn't want to give democrats the upperhand, that he sees somehow that democrats could be using this as more than an issue as we're talking about it, but could be you know using it as an issue around the country. he's thinking of it as a partisan thing perhaps and doesn't want to get involved in that. but as you have started to see just in the last day, he is starting to hint that perhaps they will take something up. >> let's emphasize one or thing, his value to the president. he approved another 13 judges just before this recess. the count is up now to over 140
in some areas of the federal bench president trump has appointed a record number during his time in office. that in mind, philip, when democrats dream about beating this guy in bright red kentucky, what do you tell them? >> well, i would tell them that senator mcconnell has been u.s. senator since i was born. they put their money against senator mcconnell don't work out. senator mcconnell has always been unpopular. the only poll that matters is the one on election day. retired marine fighter pilot had stumbles. you're seeing different democrats, kentucky farmer who has enters the race, kentucky sports radio host is thinking about it. they're all sort of thinking about it. at the end of the day, senator mcconnell has an argument. when he is at the different
meetings not only at the national level, he'll often say when you look at the president and the four top leaders in congress, all of them are from new york or california except me. so i'm not just representing kentucky, i'm representing middle america. it's a different type of rural politics. so most of us here in kentucky still have mitch mcconnell as the favorite. the kentucky democratic party has noted they have raised about $135,000 off those nyet t shirts. they are seeing a lot of engagement from their party base which could be an early indicator of the importance of the race for the kentucky democrats. i think if anything mcconnell may be worried about that being the early narrative which may explain why he is going up against radio attack ads. >> anita, republicans just aren't going to like this. tonight i note linen grad lindsay has started up towards
senator graham because of his performance in committee today. that will probably get under his skin back home in south carolina. but anita, i don't mean to call for a judgment on your part, what are the chances of what i laid out at the top of this segment being true that this could at the end of the day and at the end of the recess actually result because of the trouble this causes, actually result in the senate taking up and finding 60 votes in favor of bipartisan election hardening legislation? >> as you indicated they left for the recess so a lot of it depends on what they're hearing back in the states back home. i mean, you have mentioned senator graham, depends on the reception they get, what people are really talking about. so often we talk about things here in washington that they are not hearing back home. if the democrats are going to use this and it is resonating in
their states and districts i think you might see that happen when they come back. i think it really just depends on how the democrats are going to look at this issue. is this something they want to push on? and what these republicans think this will do for them next year. will it hurt them in their elections, both senator mcconnell and the rest of the elections. we're talking about his own election. rerp, he's looking at all sorts of other elections around the country. so is president trump. those are things that they want to look at and the presidential election matters. so do their fellow republicans' elections. >> to our viewers, both of these journalists do a great job but have great jobs. anita gets to cover politics in washington these days. philip gets to cover politics in the home of the senate majority leader. to both of you, good luck in your work.
thanks for making our broadcast. trump weighs in on what we covered here last night when the 11th hour continues. t night whe 11th hour continues. there was no hesitation, i went straight to ctca. after my mastectomy, it was maddening because i felt part of my identity was being taken away. when you're able to restore what cancer's taken away, you see that transformation firsthand knowing that she had options that she could choose, helped restore hope. my team made me feel like a whole person again. cancer treatment centers of america. appointments available now. cancer treatment centers of america. if you have moderate or psoriatic arthritis, little things can be a big deal. that's why there's otezla.
otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats differently. for psoriasis, 75% clearer skin is achievable, with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. for psoriatic arthritis, otezla is proven to reduce joint swelling, tenderness, and pain. and the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. otezla is asso or suicidal thoughts or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. tell your doctor about your medicines and if you're pregnant or planning to be. otezla. show more of you. ♪ fill up for the chance to win free fuel for a year. that's one of thousands of prizes in
and the democrats spent more time attacking barack obama than they did attacking me practically. and this morning, that's all the fake news was talking about. >> president's got a couple points there. a bizarre debate last night as a national audience watched the democrats eat their young, attacking each other, attacking the last democratic president while passing up opportunities to attack the incumbent president who was taking a victory lap on it tonight in cincinnati. near the end of the debate, they were asked about robert mueller's testimony last week and the issue of impeachment. >> i believe that we in the united states congress should start impeachment proceedings immediately. >> we all watched his testimony. i read the report. there are ten clear incidents of obstruction of justice by this
president. and he needs to be held accountable. i have seen people go to prison for far less. >> there are ten different instances where this president either obstructed justice or attempted to obstruct justice. i believe they should go forward with impeachment proceedings. >> in the days following the mueller testimony, at least two dozen more democrats have now called for impeachment proceedings of some sort to get underway. according to the nbc news count, almost half of all house democrats now, 117 support an impeachment inkbir inquiry. here to talk about it white house correspondent for "time" magazine and david jolly who happens to be a former republican of congress and has since left the house and his political party. he is with us here in new york. congressman, i'll begin with you. number one, was last night proof that we don't have party boss anymore? because a party boss would
probably say to all of the directors so you're clear y'all have to attack trump. and by the way, you should go home and run for senate and you should run for senate. is that part of what we saw last night? >> i don't know that it's that uncommon in an off year race when a party is out of power. the democrats are fighting for who they are right now. i had a contrar yn take. i think the first night was more concerning for the democrats because it exposed a lack of uninimity on ideology. >> wide gulf. >> the elizabeth warren and bernie sanders progressive lane and then moderates trying to make their case. you left that night saying who are the democrats. compared to last night i know you were worried it was the circular firing squad. i can tell you what i saw as a persuadable voter.
i think you are persuadable. i saw a lot of candidates last night that are ready to go toe to toe with donald trump. they can take some licks, deliver some licks. they had opposition research on each other. they kept it all within the bounds of a typical debate. the cauldron only gets hotter from here. you have to get tested like last night. i think we saw a lot of strength. if you're somebody who maybe voted for democrats and wants reason to vote for democrats again in '20 you saw strength on that stage last night. >> we're glad to have you back on the broadcast. what was the after action reporting from the various camps that you picked up today? >> you know, i dprooe with a lot of what was just said. one thing that was interesting in terms of how the candidates appeared whether they could go toe to toe with trump, it looked at the beginning of the week where we could see a situation where a lot of debates would be dominated of talks of trump's
tweets about baltimore and chairm chairman cummings. on the other hand i think this is something that democrats will have to wrestle with as they head towards the general election is how to come up against trump. do you argue with him on his level and get pulled into the tweet storms and the inflammatory comments. do you keep advancing an affirmative vision for how you would govern as president? for the most part they did criticize trump and did stay away from his rhetoric. we're making a mistake that hillary clinton did with her famous deplorables comment. >> david jolly in the studio last night. claire mccaskill was among our guests. she in rare honesty for someone after a democratic debate especially a prominent democrat admitted she had to mute the debate at times.
i want to play for you congressman debbie dingle who is from michigan. >> so i don't want to be negative. i love all 20 of these candidates. many of them are my friends, but i was disappointed in these two days of debates. i think we had too much practicing of lines to take jabs at people and not enough talking about issues that matter to working men and women. you know, you're in michigan. trade is a big issue. i quite frankly strongly believe that it's an issue hat helped get president trump elected. >> is there a risk that the majority of the 20 over two nights have forgotten or never learned how to talk to an american where the ford f-150 is the best-selling vehicle in our country and not the tesla? >> there is a mistake, i suppose. i would point to senator kamala harris in a moment of about 30 seconds where she took the
entire president's message on the economy, deconstructed it and redelivered it to those who are losing jobs in the ag industry and automotive industry. i liken this to -- i was at this table on election night and the day after in 2018. all my democratic friends were lamenting. it was such a terrible time. maybe it was because they were expecting so much greater. i said you just won the house. what i saw were 20 candidates who each person is a better person than donald trump both in their moral character and their command of public policy. we will naturally see this field. we are seeing each of them rise to the moment. this is a process by which each of them become presidential. i think we saw more of that last night. i understand others didn't. i would just try to reassure my democratic friends i think this was a good week for them. >> tessa, i have something to
play for you because part of your reporting was that you were surprised this issue didn't come up. and then tonight before the president's rally in cincinnati, the vice president brought up the issue the democrats hadn't discussed over two nights. here it is. we don't have it. i'm sorry. it was about federal judges. >> right. >> tell us why you think that was not a part of the president's agenda. >> so federal judges and appointing to the bench has become a huge legacy project for president trump. exit polls from 2016 show that 21% of voters said it was the most important issue to them when they cast their vote. and those voters strongly favored trump. so multiple people close to president trump have told me
that they really credit his promise to nominate conservative judges as being one of the key factors that made him win in 2016. the right has historically been more energized by this issue than the left, better funded, better organized. because it has become such a huge success for president trump he has nominated two supreme court justices, almost 150 federal judges elsewhere in the country, i was surprised that democrats never mentioned it. and i think it is a risk for them if they don't tackle this issue head on given how potentially decisive it was in 2016. >> they did not use it as a rallying cry the last two nights. our thanks to our guests. terrific conversation over what it is we have witnessed this week. we greatly appreciate having both of you on. he has been on the front lines of counter terrorism since right after the attacks of 9/11. author and intel veteran phil
mud back with us when we continue. l mud back with us when we continue. e... e... ...and downtime. ...and you time. ...and forgetting what time it is...altogether. modernized comfort inns and suites have been refreshed because when your business is making time, our business is you. get the lowest price guaranteed on all choice hotels when you book direct at choicehotels.com. (vo) vfundraising. giving back. subaru and our retailers have given over one hundred and sixty-five million dollars to charity. we call it our love promise. and it's why you don't even have to own a subaru to love a subaru retailer. subaru. more than a car company.
it's been a long time since andrew dusted off his dancing shoes. luckily denture breath will be the least of his worries. because he uses polident 4 in 1 cleaning system to kill 99.99% of odor causing bacteria. polident. clean. fresh. and confident. you gotta start somewhere. i'm a reporter for the new york times. the when, the where bank statements, tax returns, it's out, dozens of copy records of deeds and reports. 1995 showed that he was bleeding money. go through it all, understand it all holy sh* number by number, brick by brick. that's when we realized. that's fraud. i built this empire and i did it by myself.
back then, we checked ...zero times a day. times change. eyes haven't. that's why there's ocuvite. screen light... sunlight... longer hours... eyes today are stressed! but ocuvite has vital nutrients... ...that help protect them. ocuvite. eye nutrition for today. you don't really talk about your insurance unless you're complaining about it. you go on about how... ...it's so confusing it hurts my brain. ya i hear ya... or say you can't believe... ...how much of a hassle it is! and tell anyone who'll listen... (garbled)....it's so expensive! she said it's so expensive. tell me about it. yes.. well i'm telling the people at home. that's why esurance is making the whole experience surprisingly painless. so, you never have to talk about it, unless you're their spokesperson. esurance. it's surprisingly painless.
this is an uneasy time for the nation's intelligence gathering community. the director of national intelligence leaving in two weeks. the president has been critical of coats. there is already controversy over who might get that job next. phil mudd is back with us. in his new book "black site" phil mudd describes the many changes that agency faces and we quote, after a half-century of chasing the traditional targets of the post world war ii, the agency now hunted an adversary that had no government sponsor,
no clear lines of control or organization chart, no well-defined capital or geographical center, a hazy chain of command and equally fuzzy linkages to affiliated groups across the globe. phil, i don't think it will give too much away to tell the audience you begin with a fire in an elevator shaft at cia, a tiny event in the scope of things. that suffices for a kind of wake up call. that was the wake up call before 9/11. 9/11 arrives, you warn the readers to remember kind of you had to be there, you had to be in the moment. that gets us to black site. describe what they are to viewership of lay people. did they suit their purpose or did they go overboard? >> black site is starting in 2002. you have a simple question. you take down an al qaeda
prisoner. you have to come up with the conclusion. are you going to take them home to the united states and prosecute them even if you don't have enough information? what are you going to do? the cia quickly says we didn't have sort of a game plan for the post 9/11 world. we're going to create our own secret prisons overseas in our own interrogation program. there are problems with the interrogation process. the program matured. simple proposition early on. if you have a prisoner and you can't leave him in his home country, what are you going to do with them? >> tell us why every intelligence and interrogation professional knows the name? >> it was an individual who was taken into custody in afghanistan. that was before the formal black site program began. there was a prison in afghanistan that held individuals managed by the cia.
he was put in a cell one night and chained to the floor and died of hypothermia. that was a wakeup call for the cia. they are involved in the fight against al qaeda in the days and months and years after 9/11. all of a sudden you have a dead prisoner on your hands. it led the cia to step back and say we have to figure out how to professionalize. >> explain why the question comes up what would your mother say? >> i talked to 40 former colleagues. i wanted to take the reader back in time and say you should understand what was going on and look at it through the lens we looked at it through. one question i had was if you have to answer a question about whether this is right or wrong, one of the elements is what are the ethics? everything from u.s. law down to what would your mom say? >> what is your short answer on
what you've learned -- we're both in the business of cable television these days where talk is cheap and plentifully. what's the difference between those in the cheap seats and those who are in the game every day? >> i sat at the briefing table every day. 4 1/2 years doing threat brevings with robert mueller. i think what the public doesn't recognize is they might see one 10th of one percent of a threat screen. some kid in atlanta or los angeles that wants to employee something up. the volume of threat below that early on was deafening. there was so much stuff we couldn't keep track. i think we are managing it better today. the day to day volume of the business is overwhelming. >> i'm a huge fan. i hate the fact you work for the competition. this is the book. it is called black site, the cia in the post 9/11 world. just went on sale this week.
coming up for us, the president shrugs off north korea's latest missile launches saying those missiles weren't part of the deal, when we continue. missiles weren't part of the deal, when we continue. it's going ok? great. now i'm spending more time with the kids. i'm introducing them to crab. crab!? they love it. so, you mentioned that that money we set aside. yeah. the kids and i want to build our own crab shack. ♪ ♪ ahhh, you're finally building that outdoor kitchen. yup - with room for the whole gang. ♪ ♪ see how investing with a j.p. morgan advisor can help you. visit your local chase branch. (groans) hmph... . when the food you love doesn't love you back, stay smooth and fight heartburn fast with tums smoothies. ♪ tum tum-tum tum tums
no problem. we will see what happens. >> can you still negotiate the spin. >> these are short range miss sills. >> president is unconcerned by north korea's most recent missile launch. the north has launched two more missiles. shot off wednesday morning, thursday here in the u.s. this is the third launch in
eig eight days. north korean experts say kim yong unover saw this launch. kim is apparently not happy the u.s. and south korea are resuming those joint military exercises later this month. the missile launches may not trouble our president but they deeply worry our friends, the japanese and they violate the u.n. security resolution. coming up after another break, the political world is wondering what's going on in texas. why there is more reason to wonder tonight. e reason to wonder tonight humira patients, you inspire us.
the way you triumph over adversity. and live your lives. that's why we redesigned humira. we wanted to make the experience better for you. now there's less pain immediately following injection. we've reduced the size of the needle and removed the citrate buffers. and it has the same effectiveness you know and trust. humira citrate-free is here. a little change can make a big difference. humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. ask your doctor about humira citrate-free. here's to you. you wouldn't accept from any one else. why accept it from your allergy pills?
flonase relieves your worst symptoms including nasal congestion, which most pills don't. flonase helps block 6 key inflammatory substances. most pills only block one. flonase. if you have moderate or psoriatic arthritis, little things can be a big deal. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats differently. for psoriasis, 75% clearer skin is achievable, with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. for psoriatic arthritis, otezla is proven to reduce joint swelling, tenderness, and pain. and the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. upper respiratory tract infection and headache
may occur. tell your doctor about your medicines and if you're pregnant or planning to be. otezla. show more of you. ♪ there he is, last thing before we go tonight, it is officially time to ask what is going soen in texas, the news from there tonight is big. republican congressman will hurd is retiring. this is meaningful for a number of reasons starting with who he is and where he is from. remember, it was will hurd whose questioni questioning of mueller. something our own president doesn't happen to believe. william hurd, like our guest tonight phil mudd is a cia.
went for hillary and not trump. his district is huge, largest in texas. largely hispanic. 800 miles of border with new mexico. he is the third house republican from texas to bow out. and most say they want to spend more times with their families and for most it is true. now house republicans are losing their only black member two of their 13 women members have decided not to run again. texas republicans have been whispering about seismic political change. and these retirements will be seen as a huge opportunity for democrats but only if democrats
can get out of their own way, flood the zone, and run good candidates with a big assist from demographics that are changing on the fly. that is our broadcast for this thursday night. thank you for being with us. good night from our nbc headquarters here in new york. thanks for joining us this hour, rachel has the night off. our news to do list is very long. we are going to be talking 2020 with democratic candidate cory booker. we just got news of another republican retirement and that is number eight from the house. texas republican congressman will hurd, the