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tv   MSNBC Live With Velshi and Ruhle  MSNBC  August 13, 2019 10:00am-11:00am PDT

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thanks very much for being with us. that does it for "andrea mitchell reports" and here is ali velshi and stephanie ruhle. >> thank you. have a great afternoon. hello everyone. it is tuesday, august 13th. we are following a lot of breaking news. moments ago, chaos breaking out at hong kong's international airport. riot police armed with pepper spray clashing with protesters after thousands of demonstrators filled the departure area of the main terminal. the demonstrations shutting down operations at the airport now for two straight days disrupting flights and suspending check-ins. >> joining us from hong kong's airport is our nbc news correspondent and the former deputy assistant secretary of defense. janis, tell us what you're seeing on the ground right now and walk us through the last few hours of escalation. >> reporter: well, this looks relatively calm compared to the scene just a couple hours ago and a changing landscape here.
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throughout the day protesters have occupied both the departures and the arrivals level. prompt pg the authorities around 4:30 this afternoon to cancel all flights out of hong kong yet again, limit the flights that were able to land. 200 flights were canceled yesterday. so bringing what is one of the world's busiest hubs to an effective stop and telling people to avoid the airport. what we saw develop over the course of the evening was a crowd that would surge with energy and then there would be a lull until they turned on at least two individuals who they suspected were under cover chinese police officers. what ensued over the course of a few hours was what some people saw as troubling. the two people were taken,
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stripped of their belongings, held down, treated in a violent manner. and then the crowd also turned on a chinese reporter that they suspected of being a spy, even though he was wearing a vest marked press and the global times his employer issued a plea on social media vouching for him saying that he was in fact a journalist. so we've seen the police move in. there were scuffles. there was violence. people clamoring really a deterioration of what has happened, not just today or yesterday but over the past ten weeks of protests. back in june when there were upwards of 2 million people in the streets a lot of the people were families. in talking to them they told me they were there because there was this strong sense of purpose and a real sense of spirit. what we have seen over the past ten weeks is a deterioration into at times mob violence to
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the point where protesters are now demanding in addition to the chief executive stepping down and the withdrawal of the extradition law a full, independent inquiry to what they say is police brutality. we did see the police move in briefly here tonight to try to get these two individuals out. that reporter i talked about was taken away in an ambulance. there is the sense that beijing and hong kong authorities are not going to let this linger for much longer. they have been telegraphing as much over state media in the last few days portraying the protesters here as rioters. officials using words like terrorism and, of course, those videos that state media has been showing of military forces doing drills just across the border. >> eflivelyn, this has been goi on for weeks and every time we
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see it seems to get a little more serious. you are concerned this is a much bigger deal than we may be thinking it is largely because in 1997 china agreed that hong kong would operate under a system of semiautonomous government until 2047 and about 22 years in china seems to be changing its mind at least about some of these things. you are very concerned about this. >> i am really concerned, ali. first of all, i think, you know, the reporter on the ground is describing a situation which is highlighting -- she is highlighting the tension, the desperation of the demonstrators. the increased violence, according to the u.n., there is a u.n. representative who called out the hong kong police for misuse of nonlethal means to get the demonstrators under control. i think we have to be very careful not to paint the demonstrators the way beijing would like us to.
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what they really want is the chinese government to stay true to their word, which they gave the united kingdom in 1997 when the united kingdom gave hong kong back to china in effect as you said which meant that hong kong could until 2047 have their own local government. they could have their own economic system. when the chinese tried several months ago to take a heavy hand and take some of the control back, in the form of this extradition law, which i don't need to go into, the hong kong people went to the streets. now, yes, they are concerned that maybe their whole system of government is up for grabs, that the chinese will come in with force. even your reporter said that the government in china sounds impatient, right? so the problem is with china comes in with force, if they take away the semiautonomous status of hong kong that will have huge reverb rations. it will impact taiwan where the u.s. has an agreement to come to taiwan's assistance should china
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attack them. of course it will have a worldwide signal because if it happens and china gets away with it without the international community coming to at least defend the human rights of these people in hong kong and elsewhere then it will really be a defeat for democracy and a win for autocracy. >> john weaver republican strategist said this is not the party of george bush. this is not the party of republicans who have said we are about national security. we are here to defend democracies around the world. the president basically saying i hope this works out. good luck, china. what message does that send around the world? >> it's horrible, stephanie. i mean, look. of course the united states is not going to step in physically in this situation but it is our job as the standard bearer for human rights and democracy worldwide since world war ii certainly, not that we're perfect, to stand up and say,
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you made a deal, china, with the united kingdom. frankly i'm shocked boris johnson is so quiet. you made this deal. you got to hold up your end of the deal. the international community should be doing more. i don't understand where the u.n. is. the u.n. secretary general should be more active on this as well. >> thank you. joining me now on the phone is pro democracy activist from hong kong joshua wong who was in the crowd of protesters at the airport earlier. joshua, talk to me. we've just been discussing what the aspirations are of the protesters. what is your main complaint and what would success look like to you? >> we urge them to stop the extradition bill that still exists and our cause for free election will never stop. we just hope to elect our own government instead of being told by beijing.
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the leaders of hong kong should represent the voice of the people not communist authorities. >> mainland china, beijing is saying the protests are being compared to terrorism. >> state terrorism is what is experienced by hong kong people especially when riot police fire 2,000 tear gas to ordinary citizens, journalists, protesters. one young lady joined the protest, resulted in permanent blindness. she didn't use any kind of force. that's why people gather at the hong kong international airport hoping to let the world know that hong kong is an international finance center and already eroded to a police state. >> you talk about the extradition laws. a lot of people say for regular people extradition laws, something you would extradite somebody charged with something to china, doesn't feel like something the regular population would be all that concerned about. talk to me about why this
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extradition law has gotten millions of people out into the street. a guy like you. what are you worried about with respect to the extradition law? is it just that it is the tip of the iceberg and china will impose other laws? >> in hong kong we believe in rule of law. in china they believe in rule by law. that is the reason to join the strike. in hong kong such a city with only 7 million people. 2 million people, 25% of the population joined this strike already in june and it showed it is time for government to terminate the evil that exists. that's why people peacefully gathered at hong kong international airport but riot police with the chinese spies suddenly stormed into the airport and the clash happened. the fundamental problem is where is carrie lamb, the leader of hong kong, just stayed behind the riot police and kept silent and does nothing. >> josh, you are physically safe
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right now. are you concerned about your personal safety? there are threats that military action could be taken. >> i have been jailed three times, been locked up in prison. we are strongly aware that you never say never. our determination and courage for democracy will never step backward. we are just asking for the fundamental rights to have an election. that is a right enjoyed by you as citizens since last century and that is the basic and fundamental right and we will not put aside our demand for it. that's why. no matter what, we continue our battle. if they send pra economic damage might result. >> joshua wong thank you for joining us, a protester joining us live from hong kong. >> thank you. >> we'll stay on top of that story. it is an interesting fact for westerners who are mostly
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associated with hong kong, finance is a big part of it. they are a headquarters of all the major financial institutions so locking up the airport does actually have a big impact. >> when you think about global financial hubs, it is new york, london, and hong kong. >> correct. >> if you are any sort of person working in hong kong right now you are shut down and thinking about how can i get out? it is also a window into really understanding how the chinese government works. when you don't get to see it like this, people often think, china, the other super power on the other side of the world. they're our counterpart. they're not. >> this is a very different situation. >> watch those videos again. >> over the last two years we've seen some of the financial action move to other centers, singapore, and for a lot of major companies around the world, a lot of british banks there, u.s. banks, banks from everywhere they may start to think about, hey, maybe if hong kong is not stable for the next 25 years, the belief was that it was going to be stable from 1997 to 2047. >> think about what a huge hit that is.
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hong kong is considered a window into the chinese economy. it's how china connects with the rest of the world. >> that's right. >> that hub goes away you got a real problem. >> all right. we got new reporting about jeffrey epstein's private caribbean island after an fbi raid on it yesterday. plus, an insider's account of how some of epstein's accusers reacted when they heard about his death. what happens to their cases now? you're watching "velshi and ruhle" live on msnbc. woman: (on phone) discover. hi. do you have a travel card? yep. our miles card. earn unlimited 1.5 miles
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today we are learning more about an fbi raid on the private island in the caribbean owned by jeffrey epstein that's just miles off the coast of st. thomas. as new reporting reveals, alarming details into how epstein was being monitored while he was in jail on the very day he died. the "new york times" says this. one of the two people guarding jeffrey epstein when he apparently hanged himself in a federal jail cell was not a full fledged correctional officer. nbc news has also confirmed that epstein was not checked on for, quote, several hours. meanwhile, here in new york a new state law is set to go into effect tomorrow that would enable epstein's alleged victims to sue for damages. this morning we heard from the "miami herald" investigative reporter who broke the story on the jeffrey epstein scandal detailing how the registered sex offender's accusers felt after they learned of his apparent suicide. it's julie kay brown.
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>> you've been talking to the victims for years, getting some of them to go on the record and tell their painful stories. >> yes. >> have you spoken to any of them since epstein died? >> yeah. they were the first people that i called actually. they were very distraught. it's been an emotional rollercoaster for them for over a decade, you know. so now to hear that he committed suicide is sort of a feeling that once again they've been betrayed by the criminal justice system. >> joining us now the former federal prosecutor for the southern district of new york barrett burger and tom winter. just the point of one of the guards not being a full fledged guard, this is like a problem with the federal prison system right where they are short staffed so they elevate additional workers. >> i get you. but this specific prisoner -- >> i am with you. >> -- with the exception of maybe el chapo the highest profile prisoner we've got awaiting trial with so many other people he could implicate.
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couldn't find a full-timer? >> from a media attention standpoint he is the highest profile person in the federal system awaiting trial. el chapo has been sentenced and is where he is going to be. it's done. as far as people awaiting trial receiving media attention in the federal system nobody comes close. so i think you both keyed on the key issue. it is one thing to have severe shortages which is probably not acceptable. it is one thing to have people doing tons of mandatory overtime shifts, tons of overtime shifts in general to have a severe shortage within the b.o.p. system of correctional officers. it's another thing to have people that are not full-time correctional officers to, i mean, that is a skill. it is something that isn't just standing there and saying, okay. everything looks locked. there are things these correctional officers are trained to do and they receive a significant amount of training for that. when you look at it you say you have someone who is incredibly high profile, let's not forget
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you already had one incident where he tried to injure himself. now you have a separate incident. he wasn't being checked on for perhaps hours, maybe even more than that. that raises a significant question as far as what was going on here? why wasn't this more of a priority? and i think a lot of people have a lot of explaining to do. >> to whom though? bill barr said he is outraged. it's appalling. >> to the victims. >> what's actually being done? what is the price to pay? >> look, there could be, we know there are the inspector general is doing an investigation. we know the fbi is doing an investigation. i mean, theoretically if the fbi is investigating they're investigating crimes. so if they find that actions related to this reached a criminal threshold or criminal level either because of corruption or because people dropped the ball in such a severe way there theoretically could be criminal charges that come about in addition to whatever sort of civil floodgates are opened up as a result of this. >> let's talk about this new, new york law set to go into
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effect, the child victim's act, gives people a one-year window to sue for sexual abuse damages regardless of when the alleged act happened. it extends the statute of limitations for criminal charges against child sex abusers. it was intended to help victims sue their own catholic church. how will this affect people who were in jeffrey epstein's orbit? >> exactly like you said. i think the sort of design of this law was to help victims who had been abused by individuals associated with the catholic church to bring those cases if they had previously been barred by a statute of limitations but it is certainly not limited to that. so starting tomorrow, one time only, one-year period of time where if you were a victim of a sexual offense as a child either by an individual like jeffrey epstein or by an institution who was negligent in not protecting you, for example the boy scouts or the catholic church, you would now have the opportunity to bring a civil case. so this could be huge for victims. we know that a few of epstein's
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victims' lawyers have already come out and said they will be bringing charges under this new law. >> does the fact that he's already dead impact it at all? >> no. i mean, the way it could impact it is in any civil litigation you then don't have the ability to for example take his deposition so you may lose some information on that front. however, i think there is so much information that is going to be coming out in other forms from discovery in this case that they'll have strong cases. >> what is the fundamental change from what exists today to what exists tomorrow for victims of jeffrey epstein? >> so it is really the statute of limitations issue. for some child victims depending on when the abuse would have occurred and again, this is just new york state, not a national law. it is all tied to allegations here. >> let's talk about these fbi raids. jeffrey epstein's private island between st. thomas and st. john. many people today, yesterday, including julie brown said, where were you over the last few weeks soon after he was
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arrested? people saw computers being taken off the island. wouldn't one easily think as connected as this guy is he already completely cleared out anything? >> as long as he was alive and certainly any time you go get a search warrant you need probable cause. you need a reason to search. this is a new york case being brought by prosecutors here in manhattan and the allegations they've raised have to do with allegations that have a nexus to new york city. or at least to the southern district's geography. so that is the first thing. the second thing is sometimes -- they raided his house immediately here in new york so he was arrested i think approximately 20, 30 minutes later there in his house, the upper east side mansion we've talked so much about here in new york. they're in his house right after that. maybe afterwards you want to see what develops. you want to see what sort of communications occur. what other communications exist. on top of that, just because they don't have his computers and you're looking at several of them in that orange bubble wrap that you see there on the screen on the left-hand side, just
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because they don't have the computers doesn't mean they can't get e-mail. they can serve a subpoena upon an isp, upon g-moyle, upon apple. so they can get the content of your messages. they had all of say paul manafort's communications well before they actually did a search warrant at his house and before they got records from him. just to give you a little sense of what can go on. >> but if you need probable cause and theoretically they didn't have it before, did his death change --? >> i don't think -- is there a death -- i know we get into a little bit of a gray here. >> the short answer is, you don't have anyone really that would challenge it necessarily. >> ah. >> it may make it slightly easier. the short answer is no you still need probable cause. you need to convince a judge and the judge is not going to be convinced just because somebody is dead. the practical implication is the guy who owns the house is not here to put up a fuss so it may make it a little bit easier. >> so, senator ben sass has
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called upon the department of justice to rip up the epstein deal and go after the coconspirators. >> this was the deal from years ago. >> the florida deal. tell me how that works. can that happen? >> we all know i think at this point this was a terrible deal and there are investigations going on about how this deal -- how this happened, right? was this simply a matter of them being out lawyered or was there some sort of corrupt influence? there are cases pending right now related to this crime victims act and essentially saying this deal was illegal from the beginning because victims had to be consulted and they were intentionally taken out of this process. i don't know that the doj can simply say rip up the deal. it's a contract. >> but a court might. >> a court could. and what doj could do in my opinion if they wanted to do the right thing is tell the judge, look. we are not going to contest this motion that the victims are making. we agree this was an illegal
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deal. that things were handled improperly. and we think the right thing is to invalidate it. >> for them to unilaterally tear it up on their own could create major issues for doj going forward because if i do enter into an agreement, you say, well, you didn't keep your word for epstein. you're not going to for me. >> it might be easier for the doj if this is done through the courts. >> a hundred percent. >> thanks to you both. this is a complicated issue. we appreciate you making it clear for us. berit berger a former federal prosecutor and tom winter nbc's reporter. next we'll talk with former south carolina am kra cram mark sanford on why he is considering jumping into the race. so why wouldn't you take something for the most important part of you... your brain. with an ingredient originally discovered in jellyfish,
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welcome back to "velshi and ruhle." we're in the dog days of summer but the 2020 candidates aren't taking any time off. they are peppered across iowa and new hampshire today courting voters in the early states even unveiling plans focused on rural areas. >> the action isn't just on the democratic side. former south carolina republican congressman and governor mark sanford heads to new hampshire today exploring the potential for a 2020 primary challenge to
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president trump. on monday sanford released a political video explaining why he was looking into a bid and what he sees as the biggest danger facing our nation. >> i'm mark sanford. i come from the coast of south carolina where we get storms that hit in late summer. i'm here to say there is a big storm coming. i say this because our country is in the most precarious financial position we've been at since our founding and the civil war. not dealing with it could crush our economy, wipe out whatever we've saved, it could even destroy our republic. others have suggested running in the republican primary against the president as a way of elevating the issue and changing the debate. i don't know what the answer is but i do know that we have to do something. >> joining us now former congressman mark sanford. congressman, that sure seemed like a presidential campaign ad. would you like to announce that you're running? >> you get me ahead of my skis. no, ma'am. going up to explore a few things
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in new hampshire this afternoon though. >> let's talk about your economic message because president trump and many republicans argue that this is the best economy ever. they argue the trickle down economics would work, the tax cuts would pay for themselves, and the president said he is going to wipe out the deficit. now, today we know the deficit is up 27% from this time last year. i want to share for you how fox news talked about this this morning because that is where the majority of republican voters tune in to get their news. >> the treasury department just released some data that actually bolsters the president's argument. treasury is saying so far this fiscal year china has paid us $59 billion in tariffs and that number is up about 75% year on year. >> okay. congressman, let's start with this. >> the graphic didn't match what the reporter said because they wouldn't make a graphic that says china has paid us $59 million because that would be a lie. >> they might make that graphic but it is untrue.
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the president in the last hour is postponing tariffs because of the christmas shopping season. proving the point we make every day that china doesn't pay the tariffs. >> we do. >> u.s. importers do and then pass it on to consumers. >> correct. but let's also move away from fantasy land which is to say whether they did or they didn't, and they didn't, correctly, to your point, $59 billion is an absolute drop in the bucket compared to the $1 trillion deficit we will run this year. we have the largest accumulated debt we've ever had in our country's history. spending is at a greater level than ever before. deficits are at unprecedented levels in peacetime. to talk about the 59 is just a red herring. it's completely at odds with the economic reality that our country is confronting based on this administration and based on republicans in fairness. i'm a republican walking into what has been traditionally a cornerstone as to what the
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conservative movement and the republican party has been about which is some level of financial sanity. >> can i just ask when you're in south carolina having lunch with lindsey graham or when you call rand paul on the phone and you talk about these things, what do they say back to you? >> well, i haven't had lunch with lindsay. you know, he's up in d.c. and i'm down here in charleston. but i have had lunch and visit and conversation over the course of my 25 years in politics with thousands of different people at the grass roots level and what i do know is that they are still there. and in the same way they cared before in balancing the budget with their small business or balancing the budget of their family as they sat around the kitchen counter those numbers have not evaporated in terms of that being not only numerically important but important as a value in the way that they looked at politics. >> governor, talk to me about why you? you have not had a great deal of electoral luck in the last few years though you had a good career.
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bill weld is running against the president, has actually declared. a lot of people are talking about larry hogan. if republicans are going to move away from donald trump, which would be a heavy lift, why do you think you are the guy they should turn to? >> well, it goes back to those first 25 years. in the 25 years i've been involved in politics and those were some tough races at times in the house or in the governor's races, i didn't get beaten once. i got beat this last go around based on misalignment with where i am and trumpism so to speak is these days in the republican party politics. but i think we need to have a larger conversation on what it means to be a republican. because i would argue trumpism is not it. and, in fact, he is pulling us in a direction that is at odds with the very foundation of what the party's traditionally been about and what so many folks at the grass roots level have worked to advance over the years. >> let me put this a different way.
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if there are -- if there is one of you running against donald trump it will be a heavy lift. if there are two or three of you it will be impossible. do you talk to other people planning on or really thinking it's important that somebody runs against donald trump? you know, getting involved to run against donald trump i'm not sure that is going to succeed. >> let's back up. the last time a sitting president did not get their party's nomination was in 1884 and even he was sort of an accident because he got put in place based on garfield's assassination. so the idea of anybody going out and confidently saying i'm going to beat donald trump i think is a mistake. what i do think is we can begin a conversation that has major implications as to our definition of what it means to be a republican and what's important to us. historically it's been every four years in the presidential cycle that we've had a conversation as americans about what it means to be a democrat,
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what it means to be a republican, what it means to be an american. i think that conversation is taking place on the democratic side. it needs to take place with more voices on the republican side. >> then what conversation were republicans having just two years ago? because president trump hasn't delivered us any surprises. he is today the same person he's always been and in 2016 you supported him. >> well, i don't think he would see that as the case. he wouldn't have come out against me. >> but you did, sir. >> with the many things that he said. what's that? >> you did support president trump in 2016. >> again, i am a republican so about 90% of my votes would have aligned with things the republican party was advancing. that is completely true. but what i also believe is that there is a fatigue, a wear and tear that goes with trump. he's got to be the center of the storm at all times. and at some point a hurricane down here on the coast of south carolina exhausts it self based
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on duration in time. there is a weariness i'm hearing at the grass roots level with the daily trump show where everybody is reacting to whatever the latest crazy tweet is and that is not a conversation that leads to discovery or answer on things that really do ail americans here in this country. >> one thing that hardened democrats against this administration if they needed it is the fact that the tax cuts which really benefited corporate america and the wealthy didn't really pan out for americans the way it was supposed to. as a member of the freedom caucus you supported the idea of tax cuts. has your position changed? you look back at those tax cuts and say, that's a success you'd do more or would you reverse them? >> well, let's back up. no. i supported the tax cuts because i am about getting power and authority out of washington, d.c. whenever possible. and if it had been a drastic reduction in revenue to the federal government, i would have said otherwise. you can pull up my facebook posts at the time on the subject. the difference between with or without tax cuts over the ten-year cbo numbers is 2.5%.
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you could be for or against the tax cuts. but what you can't say is that it made the difference in deficits going forward. it's about, without the tax cuts the federal government is expected to take in about $43 trillion. >> sure but have the tax cuts paid for themselves? >> no of course they're not going to pay for themselves and i never said they would. >> but the republican party did. that's what paul ryan did. that's what steve mnuchin did. >> i can't go on somebody else's words. >> you were voting with them and supporting that argument so to say to us of course it didn't pan out, i'm sorry, sir, but of course doesn't seem appropriate. >> wait, wait. it was originally ron wyden's bill. he is the democrat from the west coast. who said we've got to do something about making our corporate environment more inviting for capital and investment. >> sure. that could be 31% or 29% or 27% but we got to 21% which isn't even what corporate america
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asked for with carried interest still in there. ron wyden didn't put those in. >> i wasn't for carried interest. we can go through the sub points but the bigger point is this. i made national news at the time when i said this is fundamentally not a middle class tax cut. it's fundamentally a corporate tax reduction and restructuring bill. it's a bet that by making our corporate environment more inviting we might slightly be able to improve the economic growth trend going forward because if we don't, we're going to be toast with regard to deficits going forward. we have to do something about making our economy more vibrant and sustainable going forward which is why i supported it. you could again argue for or against the 2.5% difference over the ten years but it's not the delta, not what makes the ultimate difference in the deficits going forward over the next ten years. it's, again, something we might be for or against based on our personal political philosophies. >> governor, thank you for joining us. we appreciate that. let us know.
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you can change your mind right now and tell us you're running for president. >> or if you want to call us from new hampshire feel free. >> i'll work on that. yes, ma'am. take care. >> it is interesting because he said i wasn't for carried interest. you remember we asked every republican? >> baby boy, come on now. >> tell me who is behind the carried interest thing. we couldn't find a single republican who said they were for it. >> not just on tv. >> but it's the law now. >> we would leave the set and get on the phone and call every person we knew. >> couldn't find a human. >> both hillary clinton and donald trump and every possible elected official would say over and over we're going to close the carried interest loophole. and alas. >> it didn't get closed. >> it didn't get closed. you know who that serves? private equity giants. >> almost exclusively. >> who was it who ran president trump's ceo council? steve schwartzman, head of blackstone. coming up at 3:00 p.m. i'll talk live with 2020 hopeful tom steyer. tune in for that. coming up next nine democrats have already made the next debate but the others are now facing a tight deadline.
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we'll tell you what they have to do to make the cut and who still has a chance of making it on to the debate stage. "velshi and ruhle" live on msnbc. ♪ goin' down the only road i've ever known ♪ ♪ like a drifter i was-- ♪ born to walk alone! ...barb! you left me hangin' on the high harmony there. if you ride, you get it. geico motorcycle. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more.
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the first person to survive alzis out there.ase and the alzheimer's association is going to make it happen by funding scientific breakthroughs, advancing public policy, and providing local support to those living with the disease and their caregivers. but we won't get there without you.
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join the fight with the alzheimer's association. iand i don't add up the years. but what i do count on... is staying happy and healthy. so, i add protein, vitamins and minerals to my diet with boost®. boost® high protein nutritional drink has 20 grams of protein, along with 26 essential vitamins and minerals your body needs. all with guaranteed great taste. and now try new boost® peaches and creme natural flavor. with 27 vitamins and minerals and 10 grams of protein. boost®. be up for life™. welcome back to "velshi and ruhle." nine democratic presidential candidates currently qualify for the september debate stage and there are only two weeks left for anyone else to meet the new criteria, essentially double the requirements for the last two debates. joining us now is "the
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washington post's" own jonathan capehart. jonathan, who do you see joining this debate stage? >> we've got two weeks left, nine people. i know secretary castro is trying to push, get his way in there. senator gillibrand. so look. we've got how many people left? 22, 23? they've got two weeks to do it. i'm not going to guess because i can't guess who is going to be on that debate stage. this much we do know. half the people who we've seen in the previous two debates will be on the stage. >> jonathan, you recently wrote a remarkable op-ed. it was really good. about spending extended time with extended family in north carolina and you were sort of polling them about the democratic field. tell me why you thought that was going to work as a focus group and whether what they told you surprised you? >> well, it worked as a focus group because i looked at a yard filled with african americans who are the base of the democratic party and one of my
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relatives, actually close family, long-time family friend came up and wanted to talk to me and said he liked elizabeth warren. that's when it clicked. i've got a built-in focus group. let me talk to them and i'll work my way over and to aunt gloria, and my mother and other folks. >> what is aunt gloria doing? i'd like to know who she is voting for and what she brought to the picnic. >> aunt gloria is the one who told me she likes joe biden and thinks he should be the nominee. she thinks joe biden could stand up to president trump but was also the one who said that it's going to take an old white man to beat an old white man, quote, old school against old school. but as she said that, let me tell you, 20 of the 26 people i talked to were all for joe biden as their first choice. but my aunt gloria also said she liked kamala harris. but she wasn't, senator harris, but she didn't think she could
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win, one, because she is not an old white person. but, also, she thought, and some other people thought kamala senator harris couldn't win because she is a woman. as another relative said, the country is not going to vote for a woman. hillary clinton, they didn't vote for hillary clinton. if hillary clinton had been a man she would have won. the other thing, the other surprise in my conversations at the family barbecue in north carolina is how many times mayor pete's name came up. keep in mind that the -- i'm 52 years old and i still felt like the youngest person in the yard. >> 52? let me tell you. you look excellent. >> why thank you. i'll give you my skin regimen when we're done. but we're talking about african-americans who are in their 50s, 60s, but pushing up there 70s, 80s, and aunt lucille who is 91.
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but they talked about mayor pete. now, they couldn't remember his name. couldn't pronounce it. one relative said that other little fella. i think he's a governor. i showed the picture to her and she said, yeah. that's him. she was excited. and what people in the yard loved about mayor pete was that he's young, intelligent, stands strong as one relative said, they liked the fact that when mayor pete was hit with the question about what went down with the police involved shooting in south bend that he didn't equivocate. he hit -- went at the issue head on, quote, he didn't lie. he didn't make things up. other people talked about the fact that he was in essence true to himself. that he was upfront and straight forward. when i asked what do you mean by straight forward? the response was, he's been open about who he is and therefore no one can use it to embarrass him or hurt his candidacy. so there is a lot of respect for mayor pete. and, yet, another relative said that while biden is her first
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choice, mayor pete could end up being her primary choice. >> okay. then here's what i'm hearing, which to me is stunning because in newsrooms across new york and washington and op-eds we hear over and over the democrats need to choose someone, a person of color or a woman to truly represent the party. you're talking about 26 african-americans from north carolina who said, hum, a woman not going to get elected and you need an old white guy to beat an old white guy. so are we wrong or are they wrong? >> well, that's what the election is all about. >> we'll find out. >> right. that is what the election is all about. but also here is the other thing about the woman piece. particularly as it pertains to senator harris. even though they said, you know, it's got to be a white person, old white dude or, you know, they're not going to vote for a woman, the position senator harris was in amongst my relatives reminded me of where
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then senator barack obama was with african-americans around this time in 2007. african americans were by and large in supporting hillary clinton. why? because they didn't think that they, meaning meaning white peo america, were going to vote for a black man, black person, to be president of the united states. but the thunder clap moment came when barack obama won the iowa caucuses. it was a thunder clap moment. so my wonder is, is senator harris a thunder clap moment away from getting the attention and the support of the african-american community? and when i look at her poll numbers and her stump speeches, looking at c span and stuff like that, i think the potential is there for it to happen. it's just a matter of whether it will happen. >> jonathan, thanks very much. do not please forget to send us your skin care regimen. >> 52 years old. everybody, time to feel bad about ourselves. >> jonathan capehart from "the washington post." the markets have been
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swinging this week, partly over president trump's economic policies. we'll break down what is going on down 400 yesterday. up almost 400 today. come right back. this is "velshi & ruhle." ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ new crest gum and sensitivity. and then i jump on the trampoline ahh
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let's take a look at the markets this hour. strong day. another 1.5% gain. the president has said he's delaying some tariffs on chinese imports. things like phones, 10% that were going to go on that until december so it doesn't impact christmas shopping. >> this is why this matters. the president has said all along, china, china is paying the tariffs. if that were true -- >> then what does it matter? >> why on earth would the president be delaying these tariffs because of the christmas shopping season? >> if china is paying for it y does it matter? >> the president is proving a point that it's the u.s. importers that pay the tariffs. >> and us, ultimately. >> they ultimately pass that down to the consumer. so while the president can help farmers and give them a farm aid package when they have to face the brunt of the tariffs, he can't exactly do that for all u.s. importers or consumers. so you're seeing the market respond positively. and the other thing to point out, china didn't ask him to do
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it. china has a worse hand than a ever have today given the conflict in hong kong and donald trump just bid against himself, but we'll take it. we're going back to hong kong. violence erupted as security -- as protesters and security forces clashed again. china lines up armed vehicles now just outside the city. you're watching "velshi & ruhle" on msnbc. pharmacist-recommended memory support brand. you can find it in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. prevagen. healthier brain. better life.
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that's it for us. thank you for watching
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"velshi & ruhle." i'll see you back here at 3:00 p.m. eastern and 8:00 p.m. >> i'll be watching him at 3:00 and 8:00 and back here at 9:00 a.m. eastern. i know what i'll be doing for the next hour. watching our dear friend chris jansing. she is so done with us. >> if people knew what was going on in the commercial break -- >> it was awesome. >> some of it is about dentures. >> we apologize. >> good afternoon. i'm chris jansing in for ka katy tur. breaking news this hour. we've been following this escalating violence at the hong kong airport as police clash with protesters. law enforcement equipped with riot gear storming the main terminal after thousands of protesters shut down the airport for the second day in a row. they're upset with what they see as an increasingly overbearing chinese government stepping on hong kong's autonomy. and what is president trump's statement of support for the democratic protests? i hope it works out for ever


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