tv MSNBC Live With Velshi and Ruhle MSNBC August 14, 2019 10:00am-11:00am PDT
edition of "andrea mitchell reports." follow the show online and on facebook and twitter @mitchell reports. here is ali velshi and stephanie ruhle. with the dow down, i know you have a lot to talk about. >> you said our names, we'll continue to follow that. have a great afternoon. coming up on "velshi & ruhle," we are watching the markets. traders are responding to a new dark sign of a looming recession. we'll look at where we are headed and why traders think this is happening and the fall-out from president trump's economic policies. >> we also have new details on jeffery epstein's death and what went down in jail. we have the latest reporting on one of his alleged accomplices for maxwell and what can be in store for her. a ground breaking new law in new york state helping survivors of sex abuse. new suits have been filed against the catholic church and the boy scouts and a number of
school. we must start with the breaking news. the stock market taking a huge hit today and it is all part of this idea that there is this monumental warning that a recession could be coming. you and i were arguing before the show. yesterday when the president announced a delay in the tariffs. the mark loet loved it. it is a temporary one. it is a sugar high and that's when the president have given the markets. there is some who are absorbing today. two things that are important to the present. the trade war and the stock market. the president has quickly said you know what, i am going to sideline the trade war to make sure i am propping up the market. he was not bidding against china. wilbur ross admitted this morning it was not -- the president showed his hands and showing us that he does not know how tariffs work. >> or he's lying.
could be one of the other. enough people explained to him that americans are paying for the tariffs. when he keeps on saying americans are paying or the chinese are paying. i give him the benefits of the doubt that he does not understand it. >> he's probably lying. >> how do you get investors and companies to spend their money? they have to have a pact and understand the mission of the administration or the president flip-flopping on trade or not having clear financial policies, suddenly this has both investors and corporate america sitting on their hands say i am going to sit this one out. >> year to date, the dow is up almost 10%. so year to date -- that's a pretty good return verses a year ago if you have been investing for a year, you are up 1.3%. you are about to get all your gains wiped out. let's talk about the technical part of what this is. this is not the emotional part of people worrying about the president's policies. there are something technical
that's happening. it is called the yield curve. the yield curve basically means if i ask you for money and i would pay you interest, the longer i keep your money, the longer i pay you, right? the shorter time you invest your money for the lower the interest rate you get. if you invest your money for five years or further out, you will get a higher interest rate. this is what's called a normal yield curve. this is what happens when the yield curve is flat. you will get the same interest rates of what's called 5% here. this is what's called an inverted yield curve. you get more money to invest your money for a short amount of time. if you invest it for a long amount of time. there is no benefit for you investing for a long time. the yield is the opposite of how much you pay for a bond. people are going out of the stock market and going into the bond market and paying less. when this happens, this is a sign of danger. look at all of these recessions.
these are recessions over here. the green things. before every recession, the yield curve has turned down. look at this one and this one. guess what's happening here? we have turned down again. it is a foreshadowing of a recession. the last time we saw it happening was in late 2007. >> when you see this, when that recession can come is 10 to 18 months out. you think the market is going down today, oh my goodness, the market is going down today, there is a lag. we are due for some level of a correction. markets go like this overtime. one of the reasons we saw jerome powell cut rates two weeks ago of this idea let's keep things a
afloat and keep expansions going long. >> you make an interesting point. the average time between recessions, i think we got a different graphic that shows the time between recessions. >> do we have that? >> bottom line is -- let me get to that. so this is the time between recession, right? you can see that this one is uniquely long. the last time we had such a stretch between recessions was in the '90s. it was a few months longer than this one. recessions come and go. >> without a doubt. >> the distinction is how bad you can make a recession or how you can prevent damage. what's happening now is we are due for a recession sometimes in the next couple of years at least probably and the president is doing things that may make it worse. >> yes. >> joining us now cnbc's john
harwood. let's talk about what the trade wars are doing to corporate america and the market. daughter t during the obama administration, there was a sentiment from corporate america that the regulatory over hang, the fact that they were not living in a very pro-business environment, a lot of companies were not reinvesting. they were sitting in their hands and we don't know what regulations to come so we are not going to invest. enters president trump who says i am going to give you a massive corporate tax cut and deregulate the heck out of everything so the path will be clear so we can reinvest higher and create and flouri flourish. that was a game plan. those companies are paralyzed again. they don't have regulations but they are paralyzed again because of the uncertainty of what the future holds because of the trade wars again they are sitting on their hands. all the goods they got from their corporate tax cut and deregulation is suddenly
beingout wbein being out weighed. th >> the certainty they got on taxes certainly did well for their bottom lines but also the evidence suggests it has not done that well for the economy. there was a brief boost to growth. that was wearing off. jerome powell when he cut interest rates a couple of weeks ago says investment numbers are weak and the trade war makes them weaker. that's the consequences for business for consumers, they are paying higher prices. some of those higher prices got delayed by the president's decisions but make no mistake this trade war hurts china, europe and the united states and the global economy and increasingly our economies are interconnected and therefore a recession one place tends to have a very negative effect on other place. >> john, did somebody say trade wars were easy to win? who was that?
>> yeah, that was balogney. >> we have discussed that on the show. there are a lot of things that people -- economists could see clearly before they are done. they warned them. that does not mean policymakers avoid them. just as you remember the trump white house says tax cuts was not going to increase the deficit. look at it right now. same as true as the trade war. you mention, steph, we got a long expansion, expansions don't go on forever. the question is what tips a weakening long to a done turwnt. this is the kind of thing that accelerate this development. >> this is what you call a lose-lose situation. the chinese economy is hurting and the people in the u.s. are hurting. farmers are stuck with their soybeans.
who does win out of this? the only positive is you benefit from low interest rates. if you are on a fixed income, you don't. who gains from this? if you need a mortgage, it is not bad, i guess. >> lower interest rates are certainly good for borrowers or whether you are buying a house or a car. some countries in southeast asia benefit when supply chain gets moved from china to indonesia or vietnam, that sort of thing. mostly the entire world is a loser. this is what economists have known about trade expansions for a long type. it tends to benefit everyone and although it has concentrated cost on small number of people and similarly when you have a trade conflict, everyone pays a little bit of a price and when you aggregate all those prices it is pretty steep. >> john harwood, cnbc's editor at large.
>> new details of jeffery epstein's death. we'll hear about that case and the accusers' own words. you are watching "velshi & ruhle" right here on msnbc. you & ruhle" right here on msnbc but what i do count on... is boost® delicious boost® high protein nutritional drink has 20 grams of protein, along with 26 essential vitamins and minerals. boost® high protein. be up for life. ♪
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estate and she's also suing ghislaine maxwell. epstein was found dead apparently by suicide in a jail cell last week. i am angry he won't have to personally answer to me in the court of law but my quest for justice is just getting started. the lawsuit is significant on two fronts. it is the first to be filed against the registered sex offendser since ho offender since his death. this law provides people a one year window to file a civil lawsuit regardless of when the alleged sex abuse happens. jennifer araoz spoke with nbc few weeks ago. today her attorney is speaking out about the lawsuit. >> i just thought it is my fault
i was obligated because that's what you are supposed to do. so -- i really didn't know better. >> why did you stop blaming yourself? >> what was a long time really. >> what would justice look like for you? >> justice for me is for him to spend the rest of his life in prison and make sure people like this, you know, are not allowed to harm young kids. >> she's committed until the end. she has a civil lawsuit that'll still permit her to receive a measure of justice both from the epstein and as well as you just remarked of enablers around him and there were a lot of enablers. >> joining us now is stephanie
gauss. >> jennifer araoz was in court at one point jeffery epstein was there. she was able to testify while he was in court? >> no, i don't think that was the case. there were some other victims that were in court with him. i think what you are referring to -- >> yeah. >> and she did not have that change. she wants him to spend the rest of his life in prison. she was looking to have this moment but what she gets is what this lawsuit represents, a civil lawsuit going after his estate to get that kind of accountability that she's looking for but also this entourage of people around him, ghislaine maxwell. jennifer araoz never met maxwell and this lawsuit says maxwell was this grand enabler of what prosecutors have called a sex trafficking ring of children.
>> how did this woman go after ghislaine in a civil suit if she never met her. >> the other allegation is ghislaine saw the whole operation and they say they are able to get to that point in their own lawsuit by some of the documents that were released and of the previous lawsuit and stick with me for a moement. we saw some of those documents last week, they specifically named ghislaine maxwell and accused her of recuruiting herself and recruiters to go out. >> virginia was like a lieutenant to ghislaine? >> well, -- no. >> virginia is the victim. >> she, too, had become the sex slave accusiining epstein and ghislaine making her a sex slave and putting her on her men as
well. it talks about ghislaine maxwell running this operation. the reason the defamation suit was filed in the first place is because ghislaine maxwell when this allegation surfaced came out publicly and said this is all a lie. none of this is toerue. she denied all of these things. we have not heard from her publicly since epstein was arrested in july and we have not heard from her publicly when the explosive article came out since the miami harald back in the fall >> how does ghislaine maxwell support herself? where does this luxury style be able to live in hiding and exist? >> her father is a con man and she goes on and lives the life
of riley. it does not make sense >> stephanie gauss. >> one of the high-profile figure swept up into the investigation. the prince was named in an unseal court document related to a 2,015 deaf nation lawsuit. the out line claims of sexual misconduct. prince has denied allegations with my minors. bill neely has the story. >> reporter: prince andrew is being dragged deeper into the epstein's scandal and cutting short his vacation. they have been friends and partied together for years. the prince denying again accusations he had sexual enkoune encounters with girls lured by epstein. bucki the prince denied this before.
>> i want to reiterate and reaffirm statements that are already made. >> reporter: he never explained why he was photographed with virginia at 17. >> being lent out to politicians and academics and people that are royalty. >> reporter: the second woman accusing the prince put his hands-on her breast. the queen showed support for her son this weekend. the headlines that have dogged him for years are back. epstein is tied to the princess former wife, sarah ferguson. lawyers dismissed the possibility of prince andrews facing criminal charges in the u.s. buckingham palace has not explained why andrew and epstein were so close for so many years. we are learning more of the
investigation into jeffery epstein's death. an after action team from the bureau prisons will be at the jail where epstein died today to look at what went wrong. the warden of that jail, the metropolitan in manhattan has been temporarily assigned. >> the guards were responsible for checking in on epstein every 30-minute. sources say there was a gap of several hours before epstein was even discovered then. joining us now the former executive director of the correctional association of new york, robert gange. how could this happen? a prison of this high profile and the guards were sleeping on the job, maybe? >> how do i put it? the whole thing is with mystery and unexplained factors. the fundamental truth and i
think it is hard to understand this is epstein was not notorious and infamous. we would not know any of this and, here is the word. what goes on in prison is they are probably in any institution society unaccountable in dark places. >> you sure this one have fallen outside that? >> yes. >> this one has been super accountable? >> right, right. part of which is mysterious is this make may seem like a statement is fundamentally true. is that me? >> yeah. >> is the president administrator calling and saying what are you talking about? >> no, it is my fans. sorry. >> they came out of three things. if there is a riot or if there is an incident like this that takes place in prison. we have something happens on
tour to a famous person. so that of itself part of the mysteries. you would think superintendent of this prison to make sure entreprene epstein was on suicide watch. the news report where officers responsible for him were asleep for a couple of hours. even if they check him every 30-minute, that's not adequate. someone that's determined to kill himself that's plenty of time. suicide watch, when i visit prisons when i was at the correctional association, a correctional officer sits outside the cell and he's eye balling the incarcerated person 24-hour a day. everything that the incarcerated person could use to haunt him or herself is taken out of the cell. there were no shoe laces or belts and that was not done in this case. it feels like one possible
explanation but then you are getting into really kind of deep thought conspiracy theory. >> he was off suicide watch. >> why would somebody in the position he's in be taken off. >> there is no explanation and understanding of that. the conspiracy theory which are abandoning but they have all the raw materials. maybe somebody wanted him dead. maybe we are not going to put a hit on him ourselves but we'll create circumstances of high probability. >> now that sounds conspirato a conspiratori conspiratori conspiratorial. a lot of factors in this case that someone can build strong arguments for that is the kind of thing that happens. it does not make sense that he would be taken off suicide watch and then they were supposed to
check him every 30 minutes. that's not adequate. >> robert gangi, thanks so much. >> please to be here. >> next, we'll hear from farmers now feeling the pain of president trump's trade wars. their message to the president as they struggle to stay in business. we'll take you live to iowa. you are watching "velshi & ruhle." e to iowa. you are watching "lsvehi & ruhle. pain settle for a restless night's sleep. there's a better choice. aleve pm. the only one to combine a safe sleep aid and the 12-hour pain-relieving strength of aleve that dares to last into the morning. so you feel refreshed. aleve pm. there's a better choice.
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welcome back to "velshi & ruhle." take a look at those markets. it is a weird situation that the market is just down 600 points. we think it is a relief of what we started with half an hour ago. >> a live look at the markets down 600. i want to point something out people were saying on twitter. were you celebrating the tax cut or deregulation? i am not. the argument from the white house was given these corporate tax cuts and deregulating means companies are going to reinvest and hire and recreate these growths. just look at the state of kansas, the argument that the white house have been making
from the get-go of what corporate tax cuts are going to do, everyon that is not working. no company is spending, why? because of the fears they have with concerns of what's in the world is going on with trade wars. >> it is having a negative effect on negative farmers. on monday, the u.s. department of agriculture released two sets of data corn tumbling 10%. now strasburgiuggling farmers a applying for their second rounds. joining us now, msnbc's corresponde correspondent, vaughan hilliards. this is speaking to farmers impacted by the trade war. what are they saying about the trade war and specifically benefiting collecting from this farm a packaging because there
is a lot of stories out there how it is only reaching some of the biggest farmer conglomerates and not individual farmers. >> reporter: we are here at the usda farmer service agency office. where local farmers coming into apply for the farmer's relief payment. the question mark is actually going to make the difference of what they are potentially going to lose. you saw just on monday that usda reports, there is a 6% drop in corn market. this goes to agriculture and commodities, too. the question is to what extent do these relief payments make up the losses they are bounded to face. i want to introduce you to one of those farmers, 78 years old, he's a fourth generation farmer. we met him yesterday. as he walked in the building behind us to apply for those relief payments. this is a little bit of our
conversation. >> reporter: what do you think of the trade war with china? >> i think he's crazy. the president for putting that on. i don't blame him. he's nuts. you hurt farms, you are going to hurt the whole world. >> richahis big concern is the generation and hancock county of just 12,000 people. >> vaughan, this is the first time a number of these farmers you have talked to and you have been out there for a year talking to farmers, this is the first consistent frustration you have heard with the president. a lot of these farmers were willing to back the president of an idea of an even plain field . they feel this would be good for them in the long-term. seems like patience is running
out. >> reporter: for good number of farmers said, if this trade deal does not come to -- now suddenly we are two months away from these corn fields being harvested for a second time in two years of not making any profits as we are hearing from a lot of farmers and one gentleman here we met yesterday. i visited his farm last january and he was one of those individuals that were supportive of president trump's trade efforts but yus tjust two weeks brent went out to china and when news came up that essentially that china would stop byiuying u.s. cultural product. it is easy to hear like somebody like donald trump we are going to take on china or look for a better deal and hold them to
account but more than a year into this, perhaps hindsight, was there another way to go about this. the agriculture industry here in the united states has been the weapon in this. brent, that farmer supported by and large the president's trade efforts said that food is the last thing should be used as a weapon in a battle like this. >> vaughan, thank you for your continued reporting on this and the story of the evolution of the american farmers taking on donald trump and what he's up to. >> ali, there was widespread support for the spirit of going after china. we know they are an unfair counter part. >> absolutely. >> global support for this. >> there is criticism since the get-go that tariffs were the way to go. people said over and over this is not the right tool to use. right spirit, wrong tool. now we are in the throw of it. it was a broad tool for something that could have benefited for specific action. they could have actually had the
desire effect. it was china gave a handshake and said we are going to buy agriculture products. when they did not, the president says i am going to hit you with mort more tariffs. we are still not selling those products. coming up next, we'll look at out now york state's new child victims act. we'll hear from a survivor of abuse within the catholic church. what he had to say about this new opportunity for justice. you are watching "velshi & ruhle" live on msnbc. ice. you are watching "velshi & ruhle" live on msnbc (snoring) what's going on? it's the 3pm slump. should have had a p3. oh yeah. should have had a p3. need energy? get p3. with a mix of meat, cheese and nuts.
it only gets better when you switch and save with geico. welcome back to "velshi & ruhle." the new york's child victims act. a new law giving victims one year window to file a lawsuit regardless of when the alleged happened. among those targeted to the largest institutions that have face countless allegations of sexual abuse of kids. the catholic church and the boy scouts of america. >> now this law is significant in cases like these because it extends the statue of limitations for child sex abuse. joining us now is our sex abuse survivor and advocate for other
survivors and jennifer freeman, an attorney representing sex abuse victims ranging from epstein accusers and boy scouts accusers. jennifer, talk to me about this significance of this. >> this is historic legislation and landmark legislation that gives anyone of any age to bring child sex abuse claims. >> what's the difference today than yesterday if you were a victim? >> yesterday if you were 25 years old or 38 years old or 85 years old, you had no claim to bring. >> these are all civil suits. >> criminal suits are no longer available. all we really have are civil actions. that's the only opportunities that we have. >> shawn, you are a victim yourself.
you are an advocate for other victims of the catholic church sexual abuse within the catholic church. what does this law means to you? >> that's an incredible law, incredible step forward. i was thankful to be in albany last year when the assembly and the senate passed the historic on my birthday. i got to witness the joy on my friend's face as it passed. >> when you go on tv, you talk to people it motivates those who had similar experience to yours and actually do something about it. this is bigger than so many instances because now people have a real opportunity to file a real lawsuit and they don't have to jump through the same suits they would have to if the statue of limitations expired. >> the communities within the
state of new york. all the cases being filed will have discovery cases. we'll find out how many jeffery epsteins there are and how many boy scouts or coaches or parents or doctors? this is just the steps in filing of the discovery phase of this suit and law is really what it is going to protect children throughout new york. >> to that point though, jennifer, how difficult will the discovery phase be if these cases are 10 or 20 or 30 years old. the alleged perpetrators may be dead. other witnesses may be. how difficult is discovery? >> discovery includes the victims telling their story and there is nothing more compelling than the truth. in addition to that, there is going to be a lot of discovery of documents. there were secret files at the
catholic church. >> they'll have to put it forward. >> they'll need to put it forward. >> oh boy. >> there will be files from the boy scouts and witness evidence from rocker fella university, since we had over 200 claims from that one institution and e arising from one doctor. >> hold on, one doctor over 200 victims? >> yes. >> let's talk about epstein's victims. you represent some of those as well. >> yes, i do. >> what changes today? you are now able to make a claim? >> yes, that's correct. it is a little tricky with epstein because a lot of things and a lot of moving parts right now and we don't know where this estate is going to be pursued or the virgin islands or he had the residence. >> the fact that he's no longer alive, how much harder is it to
go after his estate? the estate now it could be under the guardianship of someone else. >> it could be. i allows for the u.s. government to pursue proceedings against some of his assets which they may have been hold for the victims. >> would that have been different if he's still alive? >> shaun, the new york arch diocese says it paid for compensation funds and those victims waived their rights to file a suit. how did this change that? >> well, you know they say they paid $65 million. they may have done one or two billion dollars worth of damages. what they paid out and the damages that they did are just the beginning. you know there is no discovery phase that we spoke about in the pay out compensation fund. so there is no transparency on
who the abusers are through the civil courts, we have transparency and like unlike me who's in pennsylvania, i don't have that opportunity, our senate still has not stepped to the plate and has not passed this law. we are hoping this year we are able to get this done in pennsylvania and on top of it, we have an open federal investigation in pennsylvania into the roman catholic church. that bridges our boundaries with new york. we have federal investigations in the jeffery epstein and into the roman catholic church and boy scouts. i think it is way pass time that we start hearing presidential candidates start talking about what their intentions are with these federal investigations. we are hearing new story after new story of child sexually assaults, we would like to see what's going to happen in the future in this election year. >> so there is a lot of these cases that we hear about that
were a long time ago or you mention nasa where an organization that you would have thought protected people or the catholic church for that matter was not doing that. do you think this change and these lawsuits and this media coverage detur people who are abusers or going to be abusers. is there any effect that had on that group of people? >> i don't know if it will affect the eabusers themselves because they are embolden. they wants to act in plain si . slig sight. where it will change is the enablers. the ones who turned their head and kept quiet. they're not going to keep quiet and go to gayjail for abusers n. they're going to speak up. >> it is absolutely right, shaun. it is important to hold those
institutions responsible. that's what's going to change the situation and help protect the children which is what's most pornimportant. >> jennifer, this is massive in new york. to shaun's point, he's in pennsylvania, he cannot do anything about it. do you think we'll see this law put in place. >> new york developed the gold standard. after new york passes its laws, 17 additional state have passed some kind -- pennsylvania is not there but we hope that pennsylvania will come along as well. >> shaun, what's your message to other survivors will see this live or on social media? >> you are not alone. my message is the same. reach out to family, friends, people who are listening, reach out to your state attorney general's office. shapiro have said 46 states,
attorney generals have reached out to his office to ask how he came about his report. they are listening. pick up the phone and make that call. >> shaun, we are glad to talk to you, not with a revelation of something that is universally horrible. the fact that we got some progress here. >> shawn, good to see you. >> entrujust celebrate. >> jennifer freedman, thanks to both of you. >> the trump administration has a new rule. banning immigrants coming to the united states. most immigrants currently are not either eligible for public assistance. we'll break down the false claims, next. sistance we'll break down the false claims, next when you shop for your home at wayfair,
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acting citizenship and immigration services director ken cuccinelli referred to 140 years of expectations that people who i emigrate to this country would not be a burden on taxpayers and the government. well, for gosh sake, let's take a look at history. they passed the first immigration law in 1882. that law said any lunatic, idiot or any person unable to take care of himself or herself without becoming a public charge was prohibited from emigrating to the united states. but here's the thing. the very definition of a public charge has changed so much in the last 100-plus years. the law was written decades before the rise of our current welfare state. there was no social security or food stamps until the 1930s. no medicaid or medicare until the 1960s and certainly no earned income tax credit, not until 1975.
but that's not all. currently, today, in 2019, the vast majority of new immigrants are not eligible at all for the welfare programs. >> what? >> undocumented immigrants, dhaka immigrants or d.r.e.a.m.ers, those with hv1 visas paid $18 million into welfare programs that they're not even eligible for. ali, it is so important to go through this, because this false narrative out there that these immigrants are coming into this country, and they walk in and go on welfare. that wasn't the case back in the days of ellis island which ken cuccinelli was talking about. the programs didn't even exist. and today while we have those public assistance programs, d.r.e.a.m.ers, h grksb1 visas a visitors can't. >> so what's the goal, then? if you're not stopping people
from coming into this country and abusing our public welfare systems, is that just for the base to say, yeah, good, you're stopping them? >> yes, because it's more than the base. your average person out there, ali, does not know the ins and outs of our immigration system -- >> i emigrated to this country. i don't know the rules. >> that's why i'm saying, did we have public assistance rules when they first emigrated here from europe? the answer is no. they can say, i'm not doing very well and these immigrants are on public assistance. come on now. the recession is doing better than when we started the show. we'll tell you about that. we're live on msnbc. e live on m. (dad) i think it's here. (mom vo) especially at this age. (big sister) where are we going? (mom vo) it's a big, beautiful world out there.
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breathing a sigh of relief looking at this market. it's only down 2%. an hour ago it was 740 points. we were more than 100 points than we are right now. this is really volatility. we see where we're gaining 3 and 400 points and losing 6 and 700 points. there is a bed of uncertainty that's bothering investors. >> but i think that's an important thing. it's neither good news nor bad news. two days ago it was bad news, yesterday it was good news, and now that we're in a state of
uncertainty, people are saying, i don't know what to do. >> we'll talk about that in just a little bit. thank you for watching velshi & ruhle. we'll be back here at 3:00. >> open a window and start talking extra loud and then you can just get us walking by. >> i want to pick your brains really quickly. you were talking about volatility in the last hour. i started watching the show when you started. it was down 700 points, now it's down 600 points. how much of this is purely economic driven as opposed to some of the events we're seeing in places like hong kong and elsewhere? >> that's part of t right. geopolitical risk is always a massive factor in the markets, and while you still see investors say, the united states is still safer than the rest of the world. look at the rest of the world. t