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tv   Morning Joe  MSNBC  August 16, 2019 3:00am-6:00am PDT

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the danes didn't take the gold then, they won't take it now. i think it was '47, what did we say when we first -- what did we say the show would be built on when we first started it. >> love, joe. >> all you need is love and then of course the beatles stole that 20 years later. we were cool with it because this show is about love. but willie, my question is this. if we were not a show built on love, would we not point out that the guy fat shaming somebody in the audience probably a lot closer to 300 bucks than what dr. ronnie would want the rest of us to think? >> you might say something like that. he does have a weird obsession when he insults people with obviously cosmetic obsession. but particularly with weight. remember he thought perhaps the people hacking into our election system putting facebook ads up was a 400 guy on his bed in new jersey. he's got that -- that seems to
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be top of mind when he's insulting people. >> yeah. i just don't know that that's where i'd go if i were donald. but anyway, good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is friday, august 16th. we're filled with love, willie and i along with republican strategist and msnbc analyst susan del percio. national security expert and columnist of "usa today," and author of the book "the death of expertise and living loving, led zeppelin" tom nichols. also associate editor of "the washington post" and political analyst eugene robinson. hey, willie, so we have got these fox news polls that have come out that are pretty stark in just how badly the president's standing has fallen since all of these controversies regarding, you know, send her home and the racially charged attacks which obviously have
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hurt the president in a way that we would. some breaking news. >> yeah. israel's interior minister says this morning that it will allow congresswoman rashida tlaib a palestinian american to enter the country of israel to visit her grandmother in the west bank. and to do that on humanitarian grounds. this follows yesterday's unprecedented decision from israel to block congresswoman tlaib and ilhan omar based on their movement to boycott israel. it came less than two hours after president trump tweeted that it would show quote great weakness for israel to allow the congresswomen to enter on their planned visit this weekend. we'll have a lot more on this story, developing in a moment. but again, joe, israel now saying rashida tlaib can enter the country on humanitarian grounds to visit her grandmother on the west bank. >> well, the decision yesterday obviously very concerning not just for democratic politicians, but for republican politicians. a real concern for everybody.
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this is -- we just don't want to go down this way. you know, for years republicans were attacked for not -- and other members of congress were not visiting other countries, to get their perspectives. so the last thing we want to do is start pressuring countries to ban elected american lawmakers from going to visit. so israel takes half a step toward the right direction but we'll talk about that a lot more coming up. and get everybody's opinion on it. but let's go now, willie, to the new fox news national polls. >> yeah. fascinating polls showing joe biden continuing as the front-runner. the lead pick for democratic voters with 31% backing his presidential run. but look at elizabeth warren, she's up to 20%. she trails by 11 points but up eight points since july. senator bernie sanders rounding out the top three at 10%.
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but he's down a five points since july. voters were asked who would win in a potential match-up with president trump and some of those democratic candidates. biden came out as the clear winner with 50% saying they would back his run against donald trump. 38% said they would vote for president trump in that hypothetical match-up. voters who had a negative view of both trump and biden still backed biden by 43-10% margin in the head to head match-up and president trump is polling below several other democratic challengers as well. nine points behind bernie sanders and seven behind elizabeth warren and six points behind kamala harris. president trump is steady no matter who he is up against at 38, 39%. >> getting pounded. and gene robinson, it seems to me that if you're inside the white house and you're looking at the numbers, the one that's most concerning is a question of
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who are you going to vote for if you have a negative opinion of both biden and trump? that is of course donald trump won with a 38% approval rating on election day in 2016. but of course it's a lot different being the challenger than being the incumbent. he's the incumbent now and is not getting the benefit of the doubt from hardly anyone. >> no, he's not. and joe biden is not as unpopular among some voters as hillary clinton was. that's how donald trump got elected in large part a lot of voters didn't like hillary clinton for -- you know, for a variety of reasons. whatever reasons and then of course there was the thing about, you know, her infamous emails. but those are awful numbers for president trump. across the board, really. and you look at these new numbers, look at polling from the wisconsin, michigan,
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pennsylvania, the states that he took and he looks bad in those states and you look at what's happening with the economy. and the markets tumbled this week and the fears over recession. and you have got a president and a white house that is justifiably in panic over all of this. and it's unclear whether they're going to respond in any sort of rationale way, but they will have to respond because this is a -- this looks like a campaign going down the tubes right now. >> well, you know, the staffers inside the white house according to multiple reports are saying the president's concerned about the economy. tom, right now, it's hard to say, other than ending the trade wars pretty quickly. how the president could have an immediate impact on the economy, but one thing he can have an immediate impact are on his tweets and what he says at
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rallies. we have been saying it for a long time, you and i have, many others have been saying it for a long time that you just can't boil down your support to 35, 36% and expect to pick up enough voters to win. you know, the send her back chants that were straight out of a fascist playbook, the video that circulated about the president laughing when people were talking about shooting immigrants at the border. the president's reaction to el paso, bizarre reaction to el paso. and, you know, jeffrey goldberg at the atlantic wrote, yes, it's getting even worse. jonathan lemire at the associate press said trump's people inside the white house said he's become even more disconnected and unmoored in his management style. we're seeing this play out in the polls. everybody that thinks that donald trump has this like magic voodoo powder because of what
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happened on one day in 2016 i think they're missing the forest for the trees. >> you know, part of the president's problem is that he thinks the way he won in 2016 was some kind of a genius strategy instead of a perfect form, you know? 2016 was in a lot of ways it was a fluke. you know, it was the -- it was tailor made for somebody like donald trump. there were too many republican candidates, he was running against hillary clinton that was his single ace in the hole. that was a huge advantage. and i think, you know, when people talk about he -- >> james comey? >> yeah, with the comey letter coming as late as it did. the people said he can get this campaign on track, yes, he can get this campaign on track if donald trump weren't donald trump. i mean, that -- it would require him to be something other than he is. this is completely a play to the base because he loves the base. the base energizes -- he's not trying to energize voters. he's letting the voters energize
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him. >> so susan, last night the president was in new hampshire. we played a little of the speech. he was talking about the economy and how much he has riding on it for his re-election. >> the markets have gone through the roof since november 9th. that's that the day after i won the election. so the market went up thousands of points, things started happening. you started doing things that you would have never -- even though i didn't get sworn in until january 20th. but they refused to do that. let me tell you, if for some reason i i wouldn't have won the election, these markets would have crashed. and that'll happen even more so in 2020. see, the bottom line is i know you like me and this room is a love fest, i know that, but you have no choice to vote for me, because your 401(k)s, everything will be down the tubes. whether you love me or hate me, you have got to vote for me.
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>> so susan, the president attempting to project confidence. there's a piece in "the washington post" that describes him as anxious and apprehensive. one republican is saying, quote, he's rattled about the signs he sees in the economy right now. >> he should be because every president before, every politician knows you do not refer to -- go to the stock market every time it's up and say, oh, the economy is good because what happens if it goes down, you're blamed too. so what donald trump was basically saying if you're worried now, it may get worse, but it won't be as bad as you think if you re-elect me. it's bad logic. i think we see no more place than when it comes to women. and in 2016, donald trump was able to win white women without college degrees with 56%. in this poll, it's down to 50%. that's a swing he cannot afford.
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suburban women are at 39%. so a lot of that is based on the tariffs, on his behavior. but then you add in an economy that is so volatile and people don't trust because they're -- right now, that's what we're seeing, a lot of scared investors that's a lot for donald trump to make up. donald trump won because of hillary clinton's numbers were so bad. he's not going to be facing an opponent with negative numbers as high as hillary clinton. >> well, you had that -- din, you had the james comey letter coming ten days before the election and everybody talks about putin trying to influence michigan and wisconsin. i mean, james comey -- james comey influenced all of those states and made a huge difference in it. but, you know, as i have said before, willie, donald said to me before the election i could have -- i could have been -- we could have had this election on ten different days.
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and i probably would have lost nine of those ten days but on that one day everything lined up perfectly and everything came together and i won. maybe he's thinking he's going to draw some sort of cosmic inside straight again this next year. i don't know. i will say though, on the economy, it's so important for anybody in media that plays that clip of what donald trump said about how the economy is so much better just to get a nine-year, ten-year graph out of the economy. and see the lines. unemployment lines going down consistently. seeing all of the lines going down consistently. and the number, willie, that people look at the most in predicting elections are not all the numbers that the president is talking about. it's gdp. and when the president got in to office if i'm not mistaken on that day it was around 2.6, 2.7,
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2.8. i think for the last quarter it was at 2.1. you have paul singer and a lot of the smartest people in finance saying that we are headed for troubled times. i hope not. i certainly hope not. because the pain and the agony that that will cause americans will be absolutely terrible. so i hope the economy continues going as it is. but even if it does, willie, chances are good donald trump's not going to be able to draw that inside straight with the help of somebody like james comey like he did back last year or back in 2016. >> yeah. we have seen this week how he responds to the economy. he lashes out at the fed chair, when it goes back up he takes credit for it. he knows there's rumbling beneath the surface and he talked about some of the people running against him last night at that rally in new hampshire.
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here's what the president said. >> is there anything better than a trump rally? what about a sleepy joe biden rally? you've got kamala. kamala is falling. you've got beto, beto is like -- gone. we'll see what happens. whoever -- you know, whoever it is, i don't know that it matters. but whoever it is, different, different people. but i don't know. i think sleepy joe may be able to limp across the finish line. elizabeth warren, i did the pocahontas thing. i hit her really hard. and it looked like she was down and out. but that was too long ago and i should have waited. but don't worry, it can be
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revived. >> playing the hits there last night, joe. to go back -- by the way -- >> playing all the hits, baby. stairway to heaven, go. >> i know. >> a whole lot of love, go. >> tom says he likes led zeppelin better than that. that one number you underlined in the fox poll who had a negative view of both joe biden and donald trump, that was completely flipped in 2016 where people took a flyer on donald trump against hillary clinton. they said i don't like either but i'm going to try trump. if joe biden is the nominee that dynamic is turned on its head, at least according to this poll. >> it is. and of all the things that donald trump said in 2016, the most effective was what do you have to lose? >> right. >> and he was focusing on black voters when he said that. but what do you have to lose is -- you know, what do we have to lose, gene robinson, is also something that i heard new york
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bankers say. something that i heard friends from my old district say. i heard a lot of people across america going, you know what? we have tried the clintons and the bushes for a quarter of a century and look where it's gotten us. what do we have to lose? this guy may be crazy but maybe he'll shake things up. maybe he'll disrupt washington and maybe he'll get the best people around him. at the beginning when he was getting people like james mattis around him, and some others, they had a reason to believe. maybe this guy is going to end up being okay. of course, it's been just the opposite. so that presumption now works against donald trump obviously in these polls and now it's joe biden or elizabeth warren or whoever else that people may end up saying, boy, this is exhausting. i can't take this anymore. what do we have to lose? >> right. because right now, we know -- by now we know exactly what we have
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to lose by re-electing donald trump. being an incumbent is the classic double-edged sword. incumbents have various built-in advantages. on the other hand, incumbents have a record in office and we have seen donald trump. we have heard him. we have read him on twitter. day after exhausting day now for 2 1/2 years and it is -- people know that they don't want that anymore. i think a lot of people do, and so that's why that number has flipped so much. and it is -- you know, somebody said that he pulled an inside straight last time and he certainly did. that is very unlikely this time. i mean, these numbers really are appalling for trump and all the people who think he's playing,
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you know, four dimensional chess and this is all part of some grand strategy aren't really paying attention. he's winning it every day, every hour and it looks like he's flailing because he is flailing. and it's fascinating the way he uses these rallies, really to pump himself up. you know? is there anything like a trump rally? well, not quite. but for him there's nothing like a trump rally because he's surrounded by people who love him and cheer him and he's so desperately needing that. but he doesn't find it outside of that setting. it's not anywhere and then he looks at the economic numbers now and he's got to say, boy, i have to do something. so he brings back the greatest hits, you know? pocahontas and, you know, the
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single he dropped in 2017, i guess or whatever. >> well, and the single that he dropped again would send -- with the send her back chants which again scared the republican party for good reason. they understood that there is a going to be political fallout on this. and, you know, tom, i think that donald trump and a lot of people around him are making the classic mistake that people that get inside the washington bubble make. and they assume that americans are overly ideological and don't understand that the same people that voted for reagan twice, voted for clinton twice, voted for bush twice, voted for obama twice, voted for donald trump, so, you know, i think a lot of people are going to be thinking -- what i believe -- didn't you write a column yesterday that if you talk about if somebody made you wear waffles all day you'd still vote
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for him? i think it was george conway who quoted some things that you said. people are thinking, well if elizabeth warren gets in there and she's too liberal we'll have congress to balance her out, but at least she'll respect constitutional reforms and won't threaten the members of the press, at least she won't inspire mass shootings or inspire coast guard people or people in florida to make hit lists of democratic politicians. >> yeah. i think the bubble that the president's in is partly a reflection of his personality. he needs that energy. this is what keeps him going and it's something that works for him in terms of his need for that constant jolt from the base but it doesn't do very much to build out from that -- looking now like a 38 or 39% ceiling at this point. >> all right. we'll talk more about tom's column. we're just getting started. it's titled "why this never
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trump exrepublican will vote for almost any democratic nominee." but first, bill karins has a look at the weekend forecast. >> good morning. before we get to the weekend forecast, noaa said that the july was the warmest ever recorded and the top five all in the last five years. so no signs of that stopping any time soon. so today's forecast we do have a risk of severe storms, kansas city, isolated tornadoes and wind damage and hail possible. it won't stop raining in florida. heavy rain overnight. this is going to continue on and off and we have flood warnings that are up now in interior sections of florida. so the forecast for today, isolated storms around d.c. and enjoy the coolish type of weather in the northeast because over the weekend the heat dial is turned up. hot and humid in the south. and then by the time we get to
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get to sunday the 90s are in new york and new england and the heat index will feel over 100 degrees. so enjoy today, because we'll be 15 to 20 degrees warmer over the upcoming weekend. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. we'll be right back. i didn't have to call 911.help. and i didn't have to come get you. because you didn't have another heart attack. not today. you took our conversation about your chronic coronary artery disease to heart. even with a stent procedure, your condition can get worse over time, and keep you at risk of blood clots. so you added xarelto®, to help keep you protected. xarelto®, when taken with low-dose aspirin, is proven to further reduce the risk of blood clots that can cause heart attack, stroke, or cardiovascular death in people with chronic cad. that's because while aspirin can help, it may not be enough to manage your risk of blood clots.
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now to the new developments in israel eunprecedented move to bar two congresswomen from the country. the interior ministry says it will allow congresswoman tlaib to visit her grandmother in the west bank on humanitarian grounds. the israeli government yesterday had seemed to bow to pressure
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from trump saying it would block omar and tlaib. and president trump tweeted yesterday, quote, it would show great weakness if israel allowed rep omar and rep tlaib to visit. they hate israel and all jewish people and there's nothing that can be said or done to change their minds. less than two hours later came the announcement from prime minister benjamin netanyahu citing the support for a move to boycott israel and the law that allows israel to deny their entry because of that support. netanyahu called them leading activists in boycotting legislation in the congress and he supports the administration to deny their visit. that is a reversal from last month when israel's ambassador to the united states ron dern her said quote, out of respect for the u.s. congress and the great alliance between israel and america, we would not deny entry to any member of congress into israel.
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the american pro israel lobbying group is aipac is saying that every member of congress should experience our democratic ally israel first hand. so joe, this was a position that israel held, that they would allow anyone in to the country and then the president tweets that out yesterday and then the prime minister flips on that decision. >> i think we need to really just look at this not as a decision by israel. this is all about benjamin netanyahu and it's so shortsighted and nancy pelosi is right, it's beneath the dignity of his office. if donald trump wants to bring down the dignity of the american presidency, that one thing. i know a couple of weeks ago when donald trump attacked "morning joe" called us morning psycho or whatever he did, benjamin netanyahu retweeted it.
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and somebody said wow, this guy either really likes donald trump or really hates an american cable news show. like -- i looked at it and shook my head, dude, you don't have to go down in the mud with him. it's unusual because, you know, in congress, people joked with me and said any time you want a key to the city of tel aviv, you know, feel free to do it. i have given aipac speeches throughout my life. and it's -- as pro israel as anybody gets but, you know, susan del percio, as somebody that loves israel and has always defended israel and understands that they're surrounded by enemies that want to drive them into the sea that hasn't stopped me from being critical of israel, you know? but at the same time, you look at this and if you love israel
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like i love israel, it really does break your heart to see them closing the doors -- because i want representatives that are hostile towards israel to go to israel and maybe get a more nuanced view that will help the debate moving forward. >> and you're absolutely right, joe. and the fact is that this is a play out of donald trump's playbook because benjamin netanyahu who is up for re-election in september knows that donald trump is more popular in israel than he is right now. you know, donald trump is also more popular in israel than he is in this country right now. so this just kind of works for everyone unfortunately on the political front so they think. but this day too break my heart when i heard this, because how is it that the president of the united states says to israel do not let two members of congress in? that is despicable. it shows how weak he is. how insecure this president is. how feeble frankly he is that he has to go after these two women
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because he's afraid of talking about the economy or other issues that are plaguing this country. this is what he does and it's just wrong. as far as israel's response, i mean, we read that quote from the ambassador saying that out of respect to the u.s. congress. does this mean that israel no longer respects the united states congress because that would be equally disturbing. >> well, you know, willie, during the 1980s ronald reagan constantly was seeing democratic lawmakers go to nicaragua and talk to daniel ortega. and some in fact said things that -- a lot of people thought might question their loyalty to the united states. but ronald reagan allowed them to do it and that's just what happens. again, i hope more republican senators and members of congress will speak out today against what's happened because it is so
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important that when -- let's say joe biden gets elected it is so important that there's not this retaliation. we want our members of congress going around the world and not living in a fortress america and understanding that it's a big, complicated, bad world out there. >> well, we have heard members of congress even those who followed president trump on almost everything contradict him on this one. kevin mccarthy for example saying he believes all congress people should be allowed to enter israel. senator rubio said he disagrees with tlaib and omar on israel, but being denied entry is not what wants. let's bring in ayman mohyeldin. you were supposed to go on the trip with congresswoman tlaib. what are you hearing about her reaction? >> a few things about this. this was a fact finding mission and israel's the largest
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recipient of american tax dollars as a foreign country. they were going over there in what so many other congress people do, which is a congressional delegation. last week, you had 70 members of both democrats and republicans go on an israeli approved trip and here is the interesting part. they were going on this trip to try to find out a different perspective on what the reality is on the ground. they were meeting with israeli human rights organizations and meeting with palestinian human rights organizations and they weren't meeting with officials on either side. they were not meeting with members of the government, that's true. but they weren't meeting with any palestinian officials because they wanted to stay away from the politics and try to focus on what the reality is on the ground. you saw the reactions from them both in the statements that they have put out. they have been very critical of this saying that this undermines israel's claim that it is the only democracy in the middle east. and as you have been discussion as well it shows that israel
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particularly in this case has fallen under the president of a presidential tweet and changed course. >> so israel is citing a two-year-old law hoping to boycott israel, it's on the books from two years ago, they can prevent he or she from entering the country. can you see this from the israeli point of view? is this defensibility from where you're sitting? >> i'm like susan is, i'm stunned by this that an ally of the united states, one of the strongest allies is now in a kerfuffle with us about members of congress. members of our elected members of our legislature going to israel. this isn't like a couple of, you know, radicals from somewhere in europe who are leading a boycott movement. you know, you would think that this is exactly the kind of thing that promotes more understanding and i think it goes back to susan's point about how unbelievably insecure this president is. that this is the go to move.
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go after the squad to push this nerve and for netanyahu to go along with it, it's really almost a bizarre other worldly kind of term in politics that you never would have expected to see between the united states and israel and i find it kind of heart breaking as well. i can't believe that we're now in a time where the israeli government is saying members of congress, no matter how odious their views may be on something will be kept away from having a discussion and visiting and seeing life in one of our closest allies. that's just income prehenceable to me. >> it's so incomprehensible. and you look at israel's politics and it seems as dysfunctional or more dysfunctionful than us. you have benjamin netanyahu less
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popular than donald trump. and corruption charges have been swirling around him and have been for quite some time. he can win with a small plurality of the vote. i mean, you have been over, obviously, and done some extraordinary reporting. but you also though have had for quite some time a lot of israelis that have said, hey, come on. let's figure out a way forward. let's find peace. we don't want our children living like we did and like our grandchildren and we don't want to be occupiers. we don't want to live out our existence as occupiers. let's find a way forward. >> yeah. >> and yet, that's drowned out by a prime minister who is again deeply unpopular in israel. >> you are absolutely right on that on so many different levels. there's a certain irony in
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what's happening in the united states with the rise of white nationalism and white supremacy that's come to the forefront because something similar is happening with israel which is the rise of nationalism inside the israeli politics, the israeli politics consistently shifting to the right over the last couple of years. more around more extreme. you're hearing israeli politicians, people that the israeli government could potentially be formed with, calling for the annexation of the west bank. that israel controls an absorbs the 2 million population of palestinians that lives in the occupied territories and that puts israel at a cross roads. it has to decide if it's going to be jewish, democratic or accept the fact that it controls 2 or 3 million palestinians whose lives they control. this is what the incident of rashida tlaib and omar captures. palestinians all across the world who live even in the case of the congresswoman who wants to go back and visit her aging grandmother, this is the reality
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of what occupation is. she has to get the permission of the israeli government to visit her aging grandmother. where else do you think something like that could happen and be at the center of a major conflict? i think understanding that in a very simple level captures for americans something that is rarely seen which is what is life like for palestinians living under occupation that every aspect is controlled by israeli politicians and as that shifts to the right, we are not heading into a peaceful resolution to this conflict. given everything that we're seeing. >> yeah. willie, again, for supporters of israel including myself who have said for years israel is the one democracy in the middle east, it's stable. that's our ally. this undermines all of that. i do think this is going to be temporary. i can't believe that ron dermer
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and others in the government won't pressure netanyahu to tell donald trump that sorry, we're going to move on. because it just -- it's undermining of everybody. the only two people that this may play for are donald trump and benjamin netanyahu but as you said republicans who usually kowtow to trump very concerned by this. and i'd be shocked if you didn't see at the end of the day this reversed for both members of congress. >> yeah. as we reported a minute ago we have seen a bit of a crack there that that i'll allow rashida tlaib in to visit her grandmother. still ahead the immigration debate has become so polarizing under president trump, companies are finding themselves at odds with their own workforces. jonathan swan of axios joins us with his new reporting on that, next.
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welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now national political reporter for axios,
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jonathan swan. jonathan, good morning. you have some new reporting about employees at several major companies pushing back against work from agencies that enforce trump administration immigration policies. let's dig in to this a little bit. which companies are we talking about? >> this is a really important trend. captured by my colleague sarah fisher and kourtnei brown. you have google employees who have signed a petition saying they don't want the company to do any work, whether it be infrastructure, engineering, any kind of technical assistance to the trump administration that would help their immigration enforcement. that's important because there's a cloud computing contract up at the moment for one of those agencies. you have got other companies like whole foods which is calling on the parent company amazon to cut ties with palantir which provides the computer software. and you have several big banks
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that will refuse to lend to immigration detention centers. you have another company that one was revolting at the town hall because of the multimillion dollar contract they have with the trump administration, so this a really important trend. it's not restricted to one sector, it is happening in tech and banking and groceries. it's an important new pressure against the trump administration. >> we have seen it from customers, jonathan, but now looks like it's coming from the inside, from employees. >> yeah, absolutely. and look, i'm skeptical that this will actually change his mind because this is one of his central, you know, planks, but we have seen in small ways this affects trump. based on my reporting i believe he would have cracked down much more aggressively on high skilled visas like h-1bs.
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but it was advocacy behind the scenes by apple ceo tim cook that swayed him from that. but there's the companies with the power of google, when you have the employees revolting that could have an impact on their policies. >> jonathan, you have some new reporting that lines up with what we have been discussing already this this morning, that sources close to donald trump are worried about the economic data, specifically polls coming out of certain states he's going to need to be re-elected. >> look, a couple of things there. i reported this yesterday that the early warning signs from those close to the president, he'll say what he'll say with the confident public rhetoric, that's to keep the enthusiasm up and prop the markets up but people around him are very concerned with some of these signs with the yield curve and other early warning signs of a possible recession. their internal polling in michigan, pennsylvania and wisconsin is terrible. i'm just being very, very blunt
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about it. it's terrible. and this economic message is their path to re-election. so very, very worried about what they have seen in the latest economic data. and they realize also that they don't have many tools to get themselves out of it. they have done tax reform. the benefits of tax reform have already worked themselves through the economy. they have the fed which you know he keeps beating up so monetary policy is there. and then there's this sort of possible deal with china. that's the only real stimulative policy that they could affect before the election is some kind of a big deal with china where china promises to purchase a whole bunch of agricultural goods. >> so before we let you go, we want to underline you what you said. the polling in the places that made him president of the united states, michigan and wisconsin
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is quote terrible. how bad is it? >> i don't have the numbers because they have been much tighter about since the last leak of the polling but people who are familiar with it tell me that in those three states it is not good. it's really not good. >> joe? >> yeah, jonathan of course public polls have been showing his re-elect in the low 30s in michigan, wisconsin and pennsylvania for some time. conventional wisdom always wrong, but conventional wisdom over the past several months has been among democrats quietly just beyond themselves say oh, my god, donald trump is going to get re-elected. i'm wondering in the beltway are you still hearing that, that trump is more likely than not to get re-elected or are you starting to get a sense that at least in august of 2019 a lifetime away from 2020, november 2020, that now actually people are starting to think that there's a better than even chance that actually donald trump's going to lose next year? >> so i think some of the
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wobbles in the economy in the last -- particularly in the last 48 hours have caused people to re-evaluate. i think some of that are people who gave trump no chance of winning in 2016 so they're overcompensating to say he's going to are win the re-election and saying that because they would rather be wrong in that direction than be wrong again in the other direction. but certainly the last 48 hours some of these wobbles have caused people to re-evaluate because that was -- the message was certainly people around trump, okay, you can hate him. 47 states last night, it's what they believe. you can hate me, you can think this stuff about me, but your 401(k) is looking great and the economy is doing great, unemployment is low. the minute the cracks start to
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form in the narrative they have real problems. >> jonathan swan of axios, thank you. good to see you. still to come, more on the u.s. trade war with china and why the top money people say it can trigger a recession. "morning joe" is coming right back. johnson & johnson is a baby company. but we're also a company that controls hiv, fights cancer, repairs shattered bones, relieves depression, restores heart rhythms,
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beautiful picture of the white house. it's 6:54 in the morning on a friday. you may be in washington for now, but soon it will be in greenland, because president trump has his eyes set on buying greenland. according to the washington journal, president trump has discussed trying to buy the country from denmark and he's done so on multiple occasions. a source familiar with the matter has confirmed that story with the nbc news. trump told advisers in a meeting last spring he had heard that denmark was having financial
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trouble because of subsidies it pays to green land and wondered if he should buy it. it's unclear what the price would be for the icy island. president trump is scheduled to visit denmark by the way in september. president truman previously tried to buy greenland for $100 million in 1946. but denmark declined the offer. joe, not clear greenland is on the market right now. maybe it's one of those pocket listings you have to know someone off the record and i don't know what the price would be. this is not a fluky thing. reportedly president trump has this on his mind. he wants to buy greenland. >> yeah. t.j. just told me in my ear, century 21 is listing it. maybe he was browsing the internet last night, but yeah, it's -- we probably when we're $22 trillion in debt and facing some of the biggest deficits in the history of the country probably not be looking at buying other countries right now. but tom, it reminds me of --
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maybe trump -- you're the only person that knows as much or more about this than i do. it reminds me of the quip from "a hard day's night" when the beatles had come to america and they asked george, how do you find america and george said, turn left at greenland. maybe they -- trump puts up a huge sign with an arrow pointing left from the air. maybe he wants to brand greenland now. >> i can't believe we're talking about this. first of all, i feel like -- you know, like we have to buy greenland to prevent the communists aversion of the arctic -- it's not going to happen. i mean, european union and the danes won't sell greenland to the united states. this is one of the crazy ideas but the problem is there's a more serious point here. when the president says something it's policy. it's not -- you know, the
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president's idle neurons are firing when he says them publicly or says them to the aides it becomes a thing. it becomes -- so we end up here talking about it and the danes are i'm sure sitting in europe saying i don't know where this came from, but now the president of the united states said it now we have to think about it. it's just crazy. gets everybody running in circles because again the president of the united states doesn't just have stray thoughts. he has thoughts that if he utters them, they become policy. >> 58,000 people who live in green land are waking up wondering if they'll purchased this morning. here it is "the wall street journal," trump has eye on new property. mulls u.s. purchase of greenland. let that rest there like a "south park" episode. coming up, fox may be trump's favorite network but not the polling numbers. israel will allow
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i will not in any scenario run for the united states senate. i'm running for president. i'm running for this country. i'm taking this fight directly to donald trump and that is what i'm exclusively focused on doing right now. corey lewandowski loves your state, loves new hampshire. he was the first one that talked
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about us possibly winning the whole big ball game. and he's tough and he's smart and i'm hearing he's thinking about running for the senate from new hampshire. i think it would be tough to beat. i'll tell you one thing he'll go in to washington and he's going to have you in mind. he's going to do a job if he does do it. they're all saying are you going to support him and i said, i don't know if he's running. so corey, let us know, please. >> from texas to new hampshire, beto o'rourke is not running for the u.s. senate, but corey lewandowski may be. welcome back to "morning joe." friday, august 16th. still with us, willie is with us along with republican strategist and msnbc political analyst susan del percio. columnist of "usa today" and author of the book "the death of
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expertise" tom nichols. associate editor of "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson and joining the conversation associate editor of commentary magazine and msnbc contributor noah rothman and also the co-host of "morning joe" "first look" yasmin vossoughian. willie, there's the president talking about the possibility of corey lewandowski running for the senate in new hampshire. if he does run for the senate in new hampshire, he certainly will not be helped in the general election by donald trump whose poll numbers there are in the tank. >> yeah. corey lewandowski did not take the invitation from the president yesterday to jump in the race but many people are saying he's seriously considering doing that. but there's a new fox news national poll showing joe biden continuing as the front-runner among the democrats with 31% backing his presidential run. senator elizabeth warren trails biden by 11 points. though she's got 20% support up
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eight points from the last poll. senator bernie sanders rounds out the top three at 10%, down five points since july. here's the number you're talking about. voters also asked who would win in the potential 2020 match-up, joe biden came outed at the clear winner with 50% saying he'd back his run against donald trump and 38% said they'd vote for president trump in that hypothetical match-up. voters who had a negative view of both trump and biden still back biden by a 43-10% margin. that in the head to head match-up. trump is polling below several other challengers as well. he's nine points behind bernie sanders. seven points behind senator warren and six points behind kamala harris. interesting data inside this poll including that flip we talked about that people who don't like biden or trump, if they had to vote for somebody,
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they'd choose biden that's a flip from hillary clinton there. and just donald trump is steady at 38, 39% regardless of who he's up against. >> yeah. and you look at the democratic side of things, and boy, elizabeth warren just that is the -- that is the democratic candidate to watch. slow and steady progress, started at five. was stuck at five, six, seven. she's just -- as we said at the time when she was sitting at 4 or 5% she is doing everything right as it pertains to working hard, doing a lot of town hall meetings. having a simple message. and hitting those notes time and time again. you will see elizabeth warren up eight percentage points despite the fact she's yet to be on the main stage in a debate. she's hit her marks time and time again. hit them right. now, this poll has bernie sanders down to 10%. i have seen others that have bernie up a little bit higher.
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kamala harris still around 8%. but it does seem to be locked in with biden, elizabeth, bernie and kamala, all in the top four. and it's going to take quite a radical dynamic or somebody else new entering the race to shake that up. gene robinson, i want to talk about the donald trump polls as a guy that was -- "the washington post" bureau chief for london for some time, i know you're familiar with prime minister wilson's remark that in politics a week is a lifetime. >> yeah. >> but what i find interesting about these polls are not what they say about an election that's still 15 months off, but what it says about how americans have responded to the president's aberrant behavior over the past two or three weeks where he's become even more toxic along racial lines whether
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you want to call him a racist or not. i think everybody agrees that he's become more toxic and more inflammatory on race issues. on immigration issues, on the sort of thing that charges up his 35%, but offends just about everybody else. it seems these numbers -- let's put the numbers up, the head to head match-ups again if we can, alex, just while gene is talking. you look at these head to head match-ups, and donald trump is getting pounded by biden, getting pounded by bernie. a guy -- a guy who's an avowed socialist, beating him by almost double digits. elizabeth warren up by seven and kamala harris up by six in a fox news poll. >> yeah. >> what does this say about the last three weeks of donald trump's very -- let's just say high pitched campaign against people of color? >> well, it says the last few weeks have been awful. they have been awful for him.
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for his standing with the american public. it has shaved some points off his support clearly in this poll. disapproval of the president was at a record in terms of, you know, measurements over time by the fox poll. there's nothing good in here for president trump and it's -- you know, the difference between 2020 and 2016 is that in 2016 people knew donald trump, the television personality. the real estate developer, the, what. and they decided to take a flyer on him. now, people know donald trump the president and they have seen especially these past few weeks they have seen kind of the worst of donald trump as the president and i think people are exhausted and tired and frankly a lot of
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people are disgusted by donald trump, donald trump's performance in the last few weeks. and then you add to that the economic uncertainty. all the economic analysts who are all of a sudden talking about the possibility of a recession, all the uncertainty on the trade war. you know, in a funny way the master negotiator, donald trump, has managed to give enormous leverage to xi jinping, the leader of china, because he desperately needs a china trade deal and now xi holds all the cards and he can -- he can sort of put his demands on the table. and trump is going to meekly go along. trump was practically begging him in a tweet the other day for a meeting. >> right. it certainly sounds that way. you even had some analysts on fox news last night saying that
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donald trump has shown weakness and now it's giving china an advantage. yasmin, another disadvantage that donald trump has is in 2016 there wasn't a single person inside of hillary clinton's campaign that believed donald trump could get elected president of the united states even on election day. there were very few people in the mainstream media who believed it. if you suggested he could even sneak over 270, you got ridiculed, mocked and abused. and so in politics, just like everything else, you only get one chance to sneak up on people. donald trump got that chance in 2016. now everybody is going to see him coming a mile away. that's yet another disadvantage that the man has going in to 2020. >> yeah, it seems like voters know him, joe, for who he is at this point. the question is will he be able to reinvent himself going into
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the next election. tom nichols has a new op-ed out in "usa today" called this why this never trump ex-republican will vote for almost any 2020 democratic nominee. i don't care if senator elizabeth warren is a mendacious massachusetts liberal, she could tell me that she's going to make me wear waffles as underpants and i'll vote for her. that would be quite a sight i have to say. i don't care if senator kamala harris is an opportunistic california prosecutor who wants to relegate it -- relitigate busing, thanks for that. she can tell me that i have to drive to work in a go-cart covered with barbie decals and i'll vote for her. i don't care if bernie sanders is a muddle headed socialist from a rural class warfare state that i once lived as one of his constituents. he cold tell me he's going to tax used kitty litter and i'll vote for him. tom, you then write i have only two requirements from the
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democratic nominee. first he or she must not be mentally unstable about not be sympathetic or behold on the a hostile foreign power. this rules out gab bart and new york city mayor bill de blasio. although in his case it's hard to tell if he's unstable or just a terrible person. as for the rest of them, i'm willing to live who ever is the democratic candidate. you're one of the 50% in the poll. >> i decided to be more nuanced and leave -- leave people grasping for my meaning. partly that was my frustration with some of my old comrades on the right, and i said, never trump means never trump. but what about warren's treatment, what about bernie sanders, what about kamala
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harris' attacks -- look, if we really believe that this is an existential crisis of government, if we really believe that donald trump is a threat to our constitutional order, you know, that the only remedy to this is voting then, you know, you put policy aside. you don't say it's an existential crisis but i can only treat it that way if i get universal health care or a lower tax rate, that is stuff we can fight about all of that stuff a year from now, two years from now when in is all over. i've had it with the what aboutism arguments they were mostly coming from the right. i'm one of the people that has basically said -- i do think the president has gotten worse. i mean to some extent all kidding aside i'm kind of concerned about the president. because he seems like he has become, you know, that this is getting to him in some way. he's becoming unstable.
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>> what do you mean by this, this is getting to him? >> just the pressure of governing and running and keeping up. i think i have always proceeded from the assumption that he never thought he'd win the election and he's treading water, no matter what he's saying. i have said for three years i think he's in fear of the russians, i think the russians hold a lot of his financial secrets and he's very worried about that. so i think, you know, we're really in an unprecedented moment where, you know, i am -- again, as long as we have a person that i don't think has any issues with the constitution, or with a hostile foreign power, you know, that's my exit ramp until we can normalize and stabilize our national politics. >> basically he went from -- you know, not necessarily being capable of running the government to being a flatout like destructor of it. and that's i think the most
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dangerous thing right now what what we're facing. >> i'm sympathetic toward this argument because i share your concern about this president, his capacity to governor. his mental state. it weighs heavily on me. however, there's a note of permissiveness in the op-ed that suggests that there's a level of policing of democratic candidates that we're just going to not do for the sake of a broader political argument against this president. but you did mention just there that there is some constitutional issues that you would serve as some sort of a preclusion. well, elizabeth warren's wealth tax is probably constitutional. and kamala harris says oh, you know, i'll give you a hundred days to elect late and then do it anyway and see what the courts say. we're obliged if we're not rather advocates or pundits to say this is unacceptable and do some policing of our own, lest we accept this from a democratic president. >> this conflates two things.
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kamala harris and her love of executive orders, elizabeth warren some of her plans that i think will never survive any senate, much less a republican senate, or constitutional review, these are bad politics and we know how to fight with bad politics. we -- a lot of us at this table have had fights about bad policy and bad politics over the years. i would argue that donald trump is a thousand light years away from this. this is not the same order of problem to say, well, elizabeth warren wants to do something that's probably unconstitutional on trade. that -- look, i will deal with that when she's in office because if that gets rid of donald trump and william barr and other people that i think are outright threats to our constitutional order, i'll live with that. >> would you advocate voting democrats down ballot? >> i said that the republican party has become a cult of personality it acts like a parliamentary party that's governed in lock step from the
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top by the party leadership and i have consistently argued for voting right down the line to take down people like -- to get people like devin nunes out, to make sure that kevin mccarthy never becomes the speaker. until the republican party recovers its sanity if it ever does and stops enabling donald trump, then yes, the entire party has to play that price and i'm glad to see will hurd and others that we would have thought as good, sensible republicans saying i can't do this within the party, i'm out. >> noah rothman, i'm curious to know what your thoughts are. i know you share many of tom's concerns as you just said, many of my concerns. we all of course have voted for republican presidents our entire life. i hope i'm not assuming something incorrect there. but i am wondering what -- how you respond to tom's argument
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and also i certainly agree with him, yes, i may disagree with the majority of elizabeth warren's positions, certainly the ones that she's outspoken on. i may as a deficit hawk and as a small government conservative not support bernie sanders' economic policies. and think that they're utopian. but at the same time, i -- my concerns with donald trump have to do with as tom said constitutional order. the breaching daily of political norms that we have -- this country, american democracy has built up over 240 years. societal instability that donald trump seems to be promoting now. with words that seem to be inspiring white supremacists and certainly lines up with what we see in mass shooters' manifestos. i'm wondering do you not take
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his argument that elizabeth warren is in there, we may not like her executive orders any more than we liked barack obama's executive orders but unlike donald trump they at least understand constitutional norms. somebody like kamala harris that grew up in the legal system would respect constitutional norms and would not be breaching political norms daily. >> i'd certainly have more concerns -- my concerns would be assuaged if they displayed more deference to the constitution, i don't see that. my concern here is that we're going from a frying pan into the fire. my biggest problem as you say with donald trump is the extent to which he agitates, the extent to which he uses the power of the presidency to execute vengeance against his political adversaries. the people he surrounded himself
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with, the interaction with the house and the legislative priorities which are nonexistent, it's all about comportment. when you see elizabeth warren say things on twitter, the police officer in ferguson murdered michael brown and that's simply not true. it's just factually untrue. the justice department under obama said that's not threw. >> come on. you're going to take one of her lies and say, boy, she's just as bad as donald trump and donald trump -- >> no, no argument here. the scope and sail, no argument here. i'm with you. but in the presidency when she's given four years to operate in that way, will she behave in that sense we have an obligation not to look past this for the sake of advocacy. >> sure. >> we have to call it as we see it. >> tom, you're not suggesting
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that we look past if elizabeth warren and kamala harris say things factually inaccurate when it comes to ferguson. that's not your suggestion? >> i say in the piece i'm going to hate their policies. >> that's not policy though. >> i'm going to hate the people that -- i'm going to hate the way they conduct politics because their politics are my politics but they fall within the normal range of awful. but you keep wanting to put the democrats that are running into the same category as donald trump and say they're kind of a less bad version of the same thing. no. this is a difference in quality. this is a difference in kind. this is not the same thing. this isn't like donald trump is an 11 and that, you know, elizabeth warren is a 9. we have to make sure that we're keeping her feet to the fire. elizabeth warren, you know, is a far left on many issues a far left liberal and she's going to
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drive us crazy by the things she says like murder in ferguson. on the other hand, i think she understands the constitution. i think she would understood her role as the president of the united states. i don't think trump understands that stuff and that makes him dangerous in a way that joe biden and kamala harris and elizabeth warren are not dangerous. >> i agree with that. but the -- >> you're worried about warren's rank -- >> but they're not the same thing. >> i mean, willie, let's move on. but i mean, i'm sorry. it is the false equivalency there is breathtaking. we can get back to it. but tom's argument that is most compelling to me is the fact that whoever we get in there, if it's elizabeth warren, and of course we're arguing -- we're
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arguing that it may not be joe biden because that makes it much easier for a lot of americans and their voting but if it's elizabeth warren who is a law professor, if it's kamala harris, who is a prosecutor and an attorney general, you have two people that have an understanding of the system. and donald trump, yes, there is a lot of mendacity involved there. there's a lot of -- just a lot of disturbing instincts involved there, but there's also an ignorance. he is ignorant of america's history. he is ignorant of america's constitution. he is ignorant of political norms. because this is just something that he thought was a neat idea. and he jumped in to politics thinking he was smarter than everybody else and he proves every day that he knows less
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about politics, he knows less about negotiating, he knows less about the constitution than anyone else. so if we have somebody in there that will be checked by congress, then you will have madisonian government working and whatever their proposals are if they respect the constitutional norms, then we will have a political dispute instead of a constitutional crisis. >> we have a lot of people who want to jump in on this but we have a united states congressman standing by. we have breaking news overnight. the interior minister of israel says it will allow congresswoman rashida tlaib a palestinian american to visit her grandmother in the west bank on the humanitarian grounds. this follows yesterday's decision from israel to block congresswoman talib and omar of entering the country based on their support on the movement to boycott israel. it came less than two hours
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after president trump tweeted it would show great weakness of israel to allow the congresswomen to enter for their planned visit this week. let's bring in the member of the house committee, representative gottheimer. thank you for being with us this morning. >> thanks. >> you've made the point you don't a lot of the things that tlaib and omar said but you support their rights and their decision to allow them into the country initially and you condemn the reversal by israel's government there. do you think there will be a flip on this? >> i hope so. the reaction was swift and clear from all corners from senator rubio to kevin mccarthy, to lots of the leadership saying this makes no sense and i think israel should reverse themselves. i'm glad they overnight made that decision. i think it's the right decision and i'm hope today they go further and all members of congress to spend time in israel
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and to see the importance of the relationship. >> as someone who supports israel, again, you have been critical of congresswomen tlaib and omar, but why do you think it's important for them to travel there? >> obviously you spend time with people in the knesset and their government, and visit with generals, understand why it's -- why the relationship is key to america's national security, to fighting hezbollah and hamas and terror. the only way to go to the holocaust memorial, you can understand the depths of the relationship and why it's so a volatile region to have a relationship with a strong democracy like israel. i think you only get to have that understanding by spending time there and of course they're members of congress. they should always be welcome. you build bridges, you don't put up walls and block people and i think it was the wrong move.
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yes, i disagree with my colleagues on things and their position on bds and boycotting israel, but hopefully you can build more bridges and understanding. >> you said you spoke yesterday to ambassador dermer. israeli ambassador to the united states. what did he tell you about the way that that decision came about because it looks out in the open like president trump tweeted and prime minister netanyahu reacted by blocking the entry of the two congresswomen. >> i asked him specifically about that and of course he said that was not the reason they made their decision. they made their decision because of the boycott law, the bds law and the members of congress' position on this. this is counterproductive, it undermines the strength of the relationship and i urged him to pass along that i really believe they should make a different decision here. i'm hoping in the coming days they do go further than they did overnight. >> gene robinson has a question for you.
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>> hi, how are you doing, congressman. so whether this sort of lock step political closeness and relationship between donald trump and bebe netanyahu is damaging relations between israel and the democratic party, israel is traditionally has been a bipartisan issue on capitol hill. but all of a sudden, we have israel -- or the israeli government tilting so far to the republican side in the form of donald trump i'm wondering what it's doing to that relationship. >> well, i'm hoping -- i really believe the relationship goes beyond any individual. i think it's a very important historical issue that goes on for decades now. and, you know, i think playing politics at all from either side is a huge mistake to your point it's always been a bipartisan relationship because it's a strategic and vital ally in the region and key to our national security. when we lose sight of that or when the white house plays
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politics with it, it's a mistake. i think you're seeing many people not just here but in israel had that same reaction, if we're going to long term make sure that this issue stays bipartisan we can't play the political games. i think what you're hearing from many of us, including those who believe in the relationship this is unacceptable. we need to continue to speak out strongly against it. >> congressman josh gottheimer, thanks so much. >> thanks for having me. now to president trump trying to calm fears over the recession. he touted the success of walmart's quarterly earnings as evidence that the u.s. economy is strong. walmart raised the outlook for the year. following the release of those figures trump tweeted, walmart a great indicator as to how the u.s. is doing just released outstanding numbers. our country unlike others is
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doing great. don't let the fake news convince you otherwise the president wrote. joining us now is soumaya keynes. she has a new article out "the trade war is leading some to crimp investments." how much of the sort of the fears of recession that we're seeing right now, not just in the united states, but around the world, come from the institution of tariffs from the united states? >> yeah, so my piece looked into that question and i think the first point to make is that these tariffs are affecting a large, large fraction of trade between the u.s. and china. but when you put them in the context of the u.s. economy, they're just not that big. so mechanically they shouldn't be enough to tip the u.s. economy into recession. however, i think more important than that mechanical effect is it will be uncertainty that the tariff announcements are creating.
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businesses don't know what's about to happen. that could encourage them to put off investment and there -- there is evidence that suggest that companies are holding back on investment. the fear is if they hold back on investment perhaps later down the line they'll hold back on hiring and that means if american shoppers have less money in the wallets, maybe they'll spend less and maybe there could be a downward spiral in confidence and that means that things could start to go wrong. >> soumaya, this is yasmin vossoughian. we talked about the economy is the calling card for the president ahead of 2020. if this economy begins to tank as predicted and we could see a recession in 17 months or so after the general election in november, if you were advising 2020 democratic candidates leading up to the elections, what would be your advice in going after the president when it comes to this economy? >> i think -- i think for a lot
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of democrats the president's fight with china, they agree with that. they would agree there are problems with chinese behavior. i think it's -- i think it's the unpredictability of the president's behavior that's been generating a lot of the problems and so i would suggest that they really hammer him on that. i would suggest that, you know, at the moment it's not clear, you know, one day it's on, one day it's off. no one knows what's happening. part of the problem is that america has really gone off to china pretty much on its own so i would encourage them to essentially hammer the president for doing that. and suggest that perhaps america should work with the traditional allies. if we start to see tariffs on europe or even japan, then that just adds more fuel to this small fire that is going on right now. >> this is susan del percio.
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we know that michigan is hurting, president trump's poll numbers are hurting there and it could have to do with the fact that gm is closing plants there and can you talk about how that's hurting the economy there? >> yeah. so the cars sector isn't doing particularly well right now. there has kind of been a bit of some topping out in demand. there was a post recession recovery of autos demand. that seems to be ending and we have a big shift towards electric vehicles. so there's a lot of -- things are changing, right? then you have this new trade deal that the trump administration agreed. and i know that the car companies are planning on how to respond to that and rejigging things. so there's also disruption. i think it's related to the trade war. the tariffs are certainly not helping. if you -- you know, if you're a carmaker, you're importing some continue points from china.
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those are being hit by tariffs and that's not making you happy. we saw in the last election that people who were, you know, more affected by the china shock swan towards trump so he triggered that and they blame him for making that situation worse. >> thank you very much, soumaya keynes. joe, some breaking news on the most important story of the morning. greenland's foreign minister has spoken to reuters this morning with a simple message for president trump. we are not for sale. i guess that closes the chapter on that. open for business, but not for sale. >> greenland, we hardly knew you. so sad. >> as jonathan lemire tweets this morning and so the dream has died. it was a brief dream. all right, coming up next, a book that caught our attention.
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david epstein argues you could be more successful in life if you learn different things and don't try to be an expert. he joins the conversation next on "morning joe." mothat a handle is just a is jushandle.ir. or -- that you can't be both inside and outside. most people haven't driven a lincoln. discover the lincoln approach to craftsmanship at the lincoln summer invitation. right now, get 0% apr on all 2019 lincoln vehicles plus no payments for up to 90 days. only at your lincoln dealer.
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learn more. do more. share more. at home, with internet essentials. anybody who wants to develop a skill, play an instrument or lead their field, should start early, focus and rack up as many hours of deliberate practice as possible. but our next guest argues and boy he's got the science to back him up that early specialization may be the exception and not the rule. let's bring in science writer and best selling author david epstein. "range why generalists triumph in a specialized world." i have given this book for my birthday, from my son. i finally had some time to slow down and read it this week and
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wow, i mean, it changes -- i mean as a parent, it's important but also as you explain in the book for anybody that's in business it's an -- and education, it's extraordinarily important to understand that everything we thought we knew about learning may be wrong. let's start at the very beginning. and talk about how you used tiger woods and roger federer to kick the book off and talk about specialization versus generalization. >> so -- well, happy belated birthday. >> thank you. >> i think tiger woods is sort of probably the most powerful modern development story. even if you don't know the details you have probably absorbed the gist which is his father gave him a putter at 7 months old, at 10 months he's imitating the swing. at 2 years old you can see him showing off the swing in front of bob hope and by 3 years old he said i'm going to be the next jack nicklaus and then he's the greatest golfer in the world.
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that's sort of the quintessential 10,000 hour story. roger federer every bit of prominent as an adult and he played some basketball, soccer, hand ball, volleyball, skiing, swimming. he -- his mother was a tennis coach but declined to coach him because he wouldn't return balls normally. he kept dabbling in more sports, you know, badminton, all these skateboarding, and when his coaches wanted to move him up to the higher level with older players, he declined because he wanted to talk about pro wrestling with his friends after practice. and he ended up continuing to dabble in multiple sports and delaying specialization until later than those who peers who plateau at lower levels. if you look at scientific research, which one is the norm? the roger or the tiger? it turns out it's absolutely the roger, even though we never really hear that story. >> and you also say that -- this
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applies to so many things how it applies to education, how it applies to music. the more range you have at an earlier age, the more adaptable you are to challenges and the better you become and you actually take us to 17th century venice to explain how what applies to roger federer also applied to some of the greatest musicians. >> yeah. the finding you're describing is what psychologists call breadth of training predicts breadth of transfer. you can transfer your skills and your knowledge to new scenarios and i was writing about a group of 17th and 18th century orphans, in venice. at the time they had a vibrant sex industry and hayed that a problem with -- they had a problem with baby girls being dropped into canals. if you brought one of the baby girls, seeing if your carry-on luggage fit in a plane, if they fit in a box the institution would take them in and raise them for the rest of their life,
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and make them self-sufficient and well rounded adults they tried to teach them different skills. when people donated instruments to the institutions, the girls were encouraged to learn how to play every one of them. at least a little bit. pretty soon the governors of the institutions noticed that when they would play for the public, donations would start pouring in. so then they encouraged them even more to do this and they became the greatest performers in the world and this was at a time when venice was ground zero for a musical revolution, the modern piano was being invented. and world famous composures were vying for the right to exclusively use this incredible musical laboratory. vivaldi won the right to compose for these daughters of the choir and what was unusual early on in the training they were told to learn every single instrument that the institution could get its hands on. >> tar different from a tiger --
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far different from a tiger mom teaching a child to learn the violin at the age of 2. let me show some range here. to make your point, you talk about how nobel prize winners and other scientists who are sculptures, painters, print makers, electronics, a tinkerers, glass blowers or writers of both fiction and nonfiction and this reminds me of walter isaacson on our showing -- show saying that albert einstein was the most important person of the 20th century but not the most brilliant scientist of his mind. but he thought creatively. he envisioned like himself jumping off of trains and trying to figure out how certain things lined up. and he didn't sit there reading books and at chalkboards. he would use his imagination and
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that of course led to the theory of relativitrelativity. >> you're right. it looks like nobel laureates are 22 times more than typical scientists to have the serious aesthetic avocations basically. and as i write, a lot of those who study it noticed it. one scientist calls it a net work of enterprise, that the really creative people tend to have. where they have different things going on. and from the outside those can look like distractions but they usually end up in forming their thinking so one of the quotes i loved is from the spanish nobel laureate and he said about all of the pursuits that the creative thinkers would have, he said to him who observes them from afar, it looks as though they're dissipating their energies when in fact they're channeling and strengthening them. this turns out to be typical of people who make creative break throughs. >> one other thing for employers who are thinking about who to
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hire. fascinating statistic that you bring up. that 50-year-old -- people who start up tech companies at 50 years of age are twice as likely to start a huge massive successful company as those who do it at 30 because of their range. let's talk about on the other side really quickly and talk about the dangers of overspecialization. you say highly credentialed experts often become so narrow minded in their trenches that they actually become worse and more self-assured which of course is a dangerous combination. you talked about how this overspecialization actually means that you may want to get a heart procedure done when your cardiologist is at a cardiology convention but you also talk about the banking crisis, talked about it was caused by a lot of specialists that were in their
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own trenches and never bothered to stick their head up to see what was happening in the trench next to them. >> yeah. that was really interesting. this is one of the few cases that a high ranking s.e.c. official heard i was writing about specialization and said i want to connect you with other people to make sure you know that excessive specialization played a role in the financial crisis and it's not being talked about and what the officials and other industry people said, look, we had a system of specialized action and regulation. consumer regulators regulated consumers. securities regulators regulated securities but the fact was the provision of credit ran across this entire system and nobody was looking at that. right? so nobody had their eye on the system so you can have narrow experts who are very good at doing what they do, but if they're optimizing just the small piece of the puzzle in front of them, everyone doing that separately can still lead to massive catastrophe when you look at the entire system.
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>> all right. the book is "range, why generalists triumph in a specialized world." david epstein, thank you so much for being on. i certainly hope that people -- that educators who are watching and business leaders who are watching and government officials who are watching will pick up a copy of the book. very important. thank you for being with us. >> thank you for having me. >> incredible -- incrediblying especially for a parent too. when you think of -- >> exactly. that's exactly what i was thinking. >> if you want them to be great, they have to be tiger woods putting on the mike douglas show at 3 years old but perhaps that's not the way. >> i have to figure out how to get my son from doing scooting into a professional sport and into a career. >> some college students are saying, my plan for a triple major of, you know, wood working and calculus and art history is -- at some point you have to become good at something. >> right. >> i think that -- i hope that message doesn't get lost.
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>> but by the way, that's the message. i'm sorry. that is the message which is before you focus in on the one thing you want to do, don't specialize at an early age. he talked about the head start program which said the head start program was great, but the effects of that dissipated over time. and other people caught up. do a lot of different things because what you need to do is you need to make sure that your mind is flexible because the 21st century -- you know, it will present so many new challenges. you need -- it's more important to understand how to think and how to be flexible in your thinking than it is to just -- you know, have one block or another block of a specialty. >> there are the anomalies out there i feel like. that being serena williams who was a tennis player from the get-go. and venus williams as well, her
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sister, every single way. look at how far along she is from her sister. there are anomalies but nonetheless, -- >> there are many cases where that backfires. where your kid is so tightly wound that they blow up a little bit later in later in life. >> i love the roger federer story where roger's mother actually was a really good tennis instructor, but every time she took him out, he would be like -- she's like, no, no, you're not hitting it back normal. your doing trick shots and everything at an early age and finally she gave up and was like, go skateboard. >> he still does that, though. >> but he still did does that and you look at how he plays tennis and he is an artist playing tennis. there are -- you know, and there are certain things, like chess and golf where there are hard, fast rules and you follow those hard, fast rules. and you can get much better. >> and i would point out, roger federer is a relatively normal
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guy who has life in perspective and is pretty well adjusted for someone as talented and famous as he is playing late into his life. the book, again, is range. you can see the conversations are interesting. still ahead, our next guest is exposing so-called deep fake videos like this one that's been rocketing across the internet the last few days. bill hater swapping faces with tom cruise. the dangers of this latest digital trend, ahead on "morning joe." s latest digital trend, ahead on "morning joe. any differently? listerine® completes the job by preventing plaque, early gum disease, and killing up to 99.9% of germs. try listerine® and for on-the-go, try listerine® ready! tabs™ my car insurance, so i only pay for what i need. and this is me now! any physical changes to this man's appearance are purely coincidental. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪
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hello. today, i'm going to be talking to you about a new technology that's affecting famous people. remember when obama called trump a -- or the time kim kardashian rapped? or when arnold schwarzenegger impersonated himself? defake, defake, defake. >> you've got to be kidding. >> this is a deep fake, too. i'm not adele, but i am an expert in online manipulation. >> claire, you got us. that's our next guest, exposing the growing use of deep fake online videos. claire joins us now, co-founder of first draft, fighting global misinformation. she's out with her latest "new york times" op ed revealing this video may not be real. which reveals what we should be concerned about when it comes to
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deep fake. and i think one of the reasons people were focused on it this week is because of that bill hater video. he was on letterman years ago and he was doing a tom cruise impersonation and he almost subtly turns into tom cruise and goes back into bill hater as we're watching here. that was a fun, viral thing. but what's the danger, really, of a deep fake? you could have a world leader saying something inflammatory and catching fire before anyone knows it's fake. >> absolutely. the examples we've had so far, many of them have been viral and joking and funny and a little bit of them shocking. but you don't have to go very far until you think what would a video look like or the speaker of the house three days before an election comes out and says something like this. >> so how are you defining deep fake? you said shallow fake. >> deep fake is the use of artificial intelligence which would take existing material of
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somebody and then manipulating it into a completely different new video of something. so when there are famous people with lots of existing video of them out there, you can take bits of that and the computer turns it into something brand new. >> so this is rather chilling, but you note that the extent to which we're beginning to panic about this might be self-defeating and could be as dangerous as the valid panic around these videos themselves. what do you mean by that? >> that's exactly right. it's easy to have these panel discussions and say oh, my goodness, we're not going to be able to believe anything. but by doing that, people start to lose trust in everything and that's what we need to be really panicked about. so we need to be careful. yes, this is a new technology. and photo shop was a new technology. >> doesn't this really reaffirm the importance of the written word? you know, part of the problem is that we've become such a visual society, that we've become such a media oriented society, you
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know, you can't fake -- i mean, you can forge, i suppose, but you can't fake the written word. you can hold up a piece of paper and say did you fake this, did you write this. but i guess i'm trying to put in, you know, two cheers here for going back to reading instead of watching. >> but if we remember the 2017 french presidential election 48 hours before the election, there was a so-called leak when there was a data dump of materials. lots of those pdfs were forged, had been faked, so unfortunately, all of this can be manipulated. >> so how do you decipher what's real? are there ways of doing it? >> yes. this is a great question. technology will get us so far. we have to be skeptical of everything we see and we unfortunately have to look and find context in everything, most of the time through a google search or a reverse image search. doing some digging, you can find out pretty quickly whether something is real. unfortunately again in our
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culture, we're standing in line without even thinking, without letting our brains get into gear. that's the thing i'm worried about which is really why this is about us, about taking responsibility for what we share. >> claire, as you're speaking, all i can see is adele. it's such an interesting conversation. thank you for bringing it to us. claire, great to see you. still ahead, president trump continues to tie his re-election to the economy despite the real possibility he could be seeking an election during a recession. plus, trump is seek to go revive the pohok pokahontus any nake for elizabeth warren. s any nake for elizabeth warren. by pr, early gum disease, and killing up to 99.9% of germs. by pr, try listerine® and for on-the-go, try listerine® ready! tabs™ it's easy to move forward when you're ready for what comes next.
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pocahontas. that guy has a serious weight problem. go home, start exercising. there's never been a movement like this, never. our movement is built on love and it is -- >> when a movement built on love involves shaming other people over their weight.
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i don't really know what to say other than, of course, as you know, because you've been watching this show now for -- willie, what is it, 1947, did we come in on '47 or '48? >> yeah, uh-huh. >> right after truman wanted somebody to spread the good news across europe -- >> for greenland, yep. >> yeah, yeah, exactly. they did -- the dans didn't take the gold then, they're not going to take it now. but, yeah, i think it was '47. what did we say the show would be built on when we first started it? >> love, joe, love. >> all you need is love. and then, of course, the beatles stole that 20 years later. we were cool with it because the show is about love. but, willie, my question is this. if we were not a show built on love, would we not point out that the guy fat shaming somebody in the audience probably a lot closer to 300
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bucks than what dr. ronnie would want the rest of us to think? >> you might say something like that. he does have a weird obsession when he insults people with obviously cosmetic obsession, but particularly with weight. remember, he thought perhaps the people hacking into our election system putting facebook ads up was a 400 pound guy on his bed in new jersey. he's got that -- that seems to be top of mind when he's insulting people. >> yeah. i just don't know that that is where i'd go if i were donald. but anyway, good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is friday, august 16th. and we're filled with love. willie and i along with republican strategist and msnbc analyst susan dell percento, national security expert and columnist of usa today and author of the book "the death of expertise and living, loving led
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zeppelin, tom nichols. also, msnbc political analyst eugene robinson. willie, we've got these fox news polls that have come out that are pretty stark and just how badly the president's standing has fallen since all of these controversies regarding send her home and the racially charged attacks, which obviously have hurt the president in the way we predicted it would. but first, some breaking news. israel has said it will allow congresswoman talib to enter the west bank and to do that on humanitarian grounds. this follows yesterday's unprecedented decision to block talib and omar of minnesota to visit. the move came less than two
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hours after president trump tweeted that it would show great weakness for israel to allow the congress women to enter on their planned visit this weekend. we'll have more on this story developing in a moment. but israel now saying talib can enter the country to visit her grandmother on the west bank. >> the decision yesterday, obviously, very concerning, not just for democratic politicians, but for republican politicians. a real concern for everybody. this is -- we just don't want to go down this way. for years, members of congress were attacked for not visiting other countries to get their perspective. so the last thing we want to do is start pressuring countries to ban elected american lawmakers from going to visit. so israel takes half a step toward the right direction, but we'll talk about that a lot more coming up and get everybody's
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opinion on it. let's go now, willie, to the new fox news national polls. >> fascinating poll showing joe biden continuing as the front-runner, the lead picked for democratic voters with 31% backing his presidential run. you look at elizabeth warren. she's up to 20%. she trails by 11 points, but up 8 points since july. senator bernie sanders rounding out the top three at 10%, but he's down 5 points since july. voters also were asked who would win in a potential 2020 matchup between president trump and some of those democratic candidates. biden came out as the clear winner with 50% saying they would back his run against donald trump. 38% said they would vote for president trump in that hypothetical matchup. voters who had a negative view of both trump and biden still backed biden by a 43% to 10% margin in the head to head matchup. and president trump is polling below several other democratic challengers, as well.
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he's 9 points behind bernie sanders in a head to head. 7 points behind elizabeth warren and 6 points wind kamala harris. what's interesting as you look at that graphic, president trump is steady, no matter who he's up against, at 38%, 39%. >> getting pounded. gene robinson, it seems to me that if you're inside the white house and you're looking at the numbers, the one that's most concerning is a question of who were you going to vote for if you have a negative opinion of both biden and trump? that is, of course, donald trump won with a 38% approval rating on election day in 2016. but, of course, it's a lot different being the challenger than being the incumbent. he's the incumbent now and is not getting the benefit of the doubt from hardly anyone. >> no, he's not. and joe biden is not as unpopular among some voters as hillary clinton was. that is how donald trump got
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elected because a lot of voters didn't like hillary clinton for what -- you know, for a variety of reasons, for whatever reasons, and then, of course, there is the thing about her infamous emails. but those are awful numbers. he looks bad in all those states. and you look at what's happening with the economy. and the markets tumble this week and the fears over recession and you've got a president and a white house that is justifiably in panic over all of this. and it's unclear whether they're
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going to respond in any rational way. they're going to have to respond. this looks like a campaign going down the tubes right now. >> staffers are saying the president is concerned about the economy. tom, right now it's hard to say other than ending these trade wars how quickly the president can have an immediate impact on the economy. one thing he can have an immediate impact on is the tweets and what he says at rallies. many other people have been saying it for a long time, that you can't boil down your support to 35%, 36%, and expect to pick up enough voters to win. the center back chance that it was straight out of a fashist play book, the video that circulated about the president talking about shooting immigrants at the border, the president's reaction to el paso, a bizarre reaction to el paso.
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and, you know, jeffrey goldberg at the atlantic wrote yes, it's getting even worse. jonathan lamere said trump's people inside the white house are worried that he -- if it's even possible, it's actually become even more disconnected and unmored in his management style. we're seeing this play out in the polls. everybody that thinks donald trump has this magic voodoo powder because of what happened in one day in 2016, i think they're missing the forest for the trees. >> part of the president's problems is that he thinks the way he won in 2016 was a genius strategy instead of a perfect storm. 2016 was in a lot of ways a fluke. it was taylor made for somebody like donald trump. he was running against hillary clinton which was his single ace in the hole.
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when people talk about -- >> james comey. with the comey letter coming as late as it did. he can get this campaign on track if donald trump weren't donald trump. it would require him to inte something other than he is. this is completely a play to the base because he loves the base. the base energizes -- he's not trying to energize voters. he's letting the voters energize him. >> so susan, last night, the president was in new hampshire. he was talking about the economy and we saw just how much he has riding on it for his re-election. >> the markets have gone through the roof since november 9th. that's the day after i won the election. so i won the election. the markets went up thousands of points. things started happening. you started doing things that you would have never -- even though i didn't get sworn in until january 20th. but they refused to do that. and let me tell you, if for some reason i wouldn't have won the election, these markets would
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have crashed. the that will happen even more so in 2020. you see, the bottom line is i know you like me and this room is a love fest. i know that. but you have no choice but to vote for me because your 401(k)s, down the tubes. everybody will be down the tubes. whether you love me or hate me, you have to vote for me. >> susan, the president attempt to go project confidence. there's a piece in "the washington post" this morning that describes the president as anxious and apprehensive. one republican who knows the president saying, quote, he's rattled about the signs he sees in the economy right now. >> and he should be. every president before, every politician knows you do not refer to the stock market every time it's up and say oh, the economy is good. because guess what happens? when it goes down, you're blamed, too. what donald trump was basically saying there was if you're worried now, it may get worse,
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but it won't be as bad as you think if you re-elect me. it's very bad logic. and just to go back to the fox polls where we could see everything coming together, i think we see no more when it comes to women. and in 2016, donald trump was able to win white women without college degrees with 56%. in this poll, it's down to 50%. that's a swing he cannot afford. suburban women are at 39. so most of that -- a lot of that is based on the tariffs, on his behavior. but then you add an economy that is so volatile and people don't trust because they're not -- right now, that's what we're seeing, a lot of scared investors. that's a lot for donald trump to make up. and i happen to agree with tom. donald trump won because of hillary clinton's numbers were so bad. he's not going to be facing an opponent with negative numbers as high as hillary clinton. still ahead on "morning joe," we showed you the poll putting joe biden and elizabeth warren at the top of the field.
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and president trump took time last night to attack both of them. more from his new hampshire rally next on "morning joe." johnson & johnson is a baby company. but we're also a cancer fighting, hiv controlling, joint replacing, and depression relieving company. from the day you're born we never stop taking care of you. woman: (on phone) discover. hi. do you have a travel card? yep. our miles card. earn unlimited 1.5 miles and we'll match it at the end of your first year. nice! i'm thinking about a scuba diving trip. woman: ooh! (gasp) or not. you okay? yeah, no, i'm good. earn miles. we'll match 'em at the end of your first year.
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welcome back to "morning joe." president trump talked about the presidential candidates at his rally in new hampshire last night. >> is there anything better than a trump rally? what about a sleepy joe biden rally? you've got kamala. kamala is falling. we'll see what happened. whoever it is. i don't know what it matters.
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i did it really hard. but that was too long ago. we will revive it. right? >> playing the hits there last night, joe. to go back -- >> that was completely flipped in 20126 where people took a flyer on donald trump against hillary clinton. they said i don't like them, but i'm going on try trump. if joe biden is the nominee, that dynamic is turned
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completely on its head, at least according to this poll. >> it is. and of all the things that donald trump said in 2016, the most effective was what do you have to lose? and he was focussing on black voters when he said that, but what do you have to lose is, you know, what do we have to lose, gene robinson, is also something that i heard new york bankers say, something that i heard friends from my old district say. i heard a lot of people across america going, you know what? we've tried the clintons and the bushes for a quarter of a century and look where it's gotten us. this guy may be crazy, but maybe he'll shake things up and maybe he'll get the best people around him. but at the beginning, when he was getting people like james mattis around him and some
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others, they had that reason. that presumption, now it's joe biden or whoever elsewhere people end up saying, boy, this is exhausting. i can't take this any more. what do we have to lose? >> right. because right now, we know -- by now, we know exactly what we have to lose by re-electing donald trump. it is the classic double edge sword. we've heard him day after day now and people know that they don't want that any more.
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a lot of people do. that is very unlikely this time. these numbers really are appalling for trump. and all the people who think that he's playing four dimensional chess and this is all part of some grand strategy aren't really paying attention. he's winging it every day, every hour, and he looks like he's flailing because he is flailing. it's fascinating the way he uses these rallies, really, to pump himself up. you know, is there anything like a trump rally. well, not quite. but for him, there is nothing like a trump rally because he's surrounded by people who actually love him and cheer him.
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and he so desperately needs that. but he doesn't find he it outside of that setting. eats not anywhere. and he brings back the greatest hits, pocahontas and the single he dropped in 2017 i guess or whatever. >> coming up on "morning joe," he's under cutting the president's political opponents here at home. we'll discuss prime minister netanyahu's latest moves, next. netanyahu's latest moves, next you wouldn't do only half
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donald trump saying it would block congress women omar and talib who planned to visit vaem and the west bank this weekend. president trump tweeted it would show great weakness if they allowed the congress women to visit. there is nothing that can be said or done to change their minds. and less than two hours later came the announcement from prime minister netanyahu citing the move to boycott israel and a move that allows israel to bar the women because of that support. that is a reversal from just last month when ron durmer said out of respect for the u.s. congress and the great alliance between israel and america we
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would not deny entry to any members of congress into israel. the lobbying group is sweeting in part, every member of congress should be able to visit and experience our democratic ally israel firsthand. so this was clear a position israel held where they said they were going to let any congressman or woman into the country, the president tweets that out and the prime minister of israel flip owes that decision. >> and i was going to say, i think we need to look at this not as a decision by israel, this is all about benjamin netanyahu. it is so short sided and it is beneath the dignity of his office. if president trump wants to bring down the dignity of the american people, that's one thing. benjamin netanyahu shouldn't follow along. a couple of week ago when donald trump attacked "morning joe,"
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netanyahu retweeted it. and somebody said, wow, this guy either really likes donald trump or really hates an american news show. i just looked at it and shook my head and i'm like, dude, you don't have to go down in the mud with him. in congress, people joked with me. i have given apec speeches throughout my life and am as pro israel as anybody gets. but susan dell percento, this is somebody that loves israel and has always defended israel and understands that they are surrounded by enemies. that hasn't stopped me from being critical of israel. but at the same time, you look
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at this and if you love israel like i love israel, it really does break your heart to see them closing the doors to -- because i want representatives that are hostile towards israel to go to israel and maybe get a more nuanced view to help the debate moving forward. >> you are absolutely right. this is a play out of donald trump's play book because netanyahu, who is up for re-election in september, knows that donald trump is more popular in israel than he is right now. donald trump is also more popular in israel than he is right now. so this works for everyone on the political front, so they think. but this day, too, broke my heart when i hard this because how is it the president of the united states says to israel, do not let two members of congress in. that is despicable.
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it shows how weak and feeble this president is that he has to go after these two women because he's afraid of talking about the economy or other issues that are playinging this country. this is what he does and it's just wrong. and as far as israel's response, we read that woet from the ambassador saying out of respect for the u.s. congress. does that mean israel no longer respects the united states congress? that would be equally disturbing. coming up, actress america ferrea is no stranger to politics or activism. she joins us next to talk about her latest initiative. next to her latest initiative. johnson & johnson is a baby company.
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welcome back to "morning joe." we're following breaking news here in new york city. nypd officers are responding to the fulton street subway complex
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over reports of two suspicious devices. the area has been evacuated, trains are bypassing the stalgz, but moments ago now, the official twitter account of the nypd counter terrorism bureau posted, quote, our bomb squad has cleared the devices inside fulton street subway station lower manhattan. they are not explosive devices. out of an abundance of caution, officers are searching nearby stations. good news there, though. now to the federal government apparently using a new tactic to track and arrest undocumented workers, one that involves gps technology. in some instances, migrants who cross the border are outfitted with devices and officials use that gps data to keep tabs on the migrants as they head to work. ultimately, officials raided a half dozen food processing plants in the south resulting in hundreds of address.
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this month's sweep was the largest single day immigration operation in more than a decade. so far none of the companies that employ the migrants have been hit with fines or arrests. joining us now, america ferrea. america has joined forces with more than 150 actors and filmmakers to draft a letter of support. thank you for taking the time. i know you're up early in los angeles. the names on the list, including your, eva langoria, jennifer lopez, ricky martin, rosario dawson, the list goes on and on. it's an amazing collection of stars from your business. what do you hope to achieve with the letter? >> good morning and thank you. it's not just a coalition of artists. it's also a coalition of civil rights artists and activists
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within our community who have sent this letter acknowledging the real fair and the real pain that is understandably sweeping through our community right now in light of the most recent attacks on our community. >> and what do you hope the message will get across to america? what do you want to say to the people who are, as you say, living in fear given what we've seen in the news in the last couple of weeks? >> this is a letter of love and solidarity. it's a reminder of how much power we have within our xhuvent, how much strength there is in spite of how dark these times are at the moment for our community. and it's -- the message is that we're not going anywhere. we will continue to fight for our community to organize for our lives, four our dignity and our humanity and we did it from a place of love. we organize to fight because we love our community and we love our country. fighting for our dignity and our humanity is fighting for this nation. >> talk about the process of deciding to put this letter
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together and how that went on. >> well, there just have been so many conversations i've had with activists, organizers, artists, leaders who are feeling heavy hearted and hard broken and devastated by the many and frequent attacks that our community is witnessing. as a latina, my heart breaks every single time i see another attack on my community, but as an american, i have a deep concern for what is happening in our country, for how low the conversation has gotten, for how inhumane the treatment of mothers and fathers and childrens and human beings has gotten in this country. and i think every and any american witnessing should be concerned for what it means for our country. >> good morning. it's susan delpercio here. i'm looking for something positive to end the week on basically, and i'm going to ask you, what, if anything, are we
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seeing that's coming out of the community, maybe it's more united now than ever or something. is there any positive message we can take, especially to the young people out there who are living in fear, who see what is happening around the country. where with can he move this message in a positive way? >> i think the positive message is there are so many americans that feel the pain that is happening within our community. we are seeing americans standing up holding their workplaces responsible for who and what they support. and the positive messages, stand with us, fight for us to our allies who are sitting at home watching these images thinking, god, this is awful. we need you to stand up with us. our national dialogue is where the light is. and things change when americans
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show up. you look at last year and it was the most diverse group of americans who ever went to vote in an election. and now we have the most diverse house of representatives we've ever had. so things can change and that's the positivity. we're all responsible for what's happening in our time on our clock and our country. and we can shine light by having the most basic capacity and decency for one another. >> may we turn this time of despair into a time of action is the second to the last line in your letter. what do you recommend? going to the polls, going to the streets? >> there are so many ways that we can turn to action. we can turn to this community that is suffering who has been organizing for years and years and years, generations, for their dignity and their
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humanity. national domestic workers alliance, vote latino that have been leading the charge. and support these organizations. show up for these organizations. yes, we can always protest, pigsz and take to the streets, but we can hold our workplaces accountable. you can donate money. i think the number one message for me in this time is that it is so easy to be overwhelmed with the bad news, to be so heart broken, so devastated, and even numbed to what is happening to human beings in our country at this moment that it paralyzes us. and we can't be paralyzed. we have to fight through that and we have to continue to show up because it matters when we show up. >> america ferrea, one of the 230 names of latino leaders on that letter. thanks so much for being here. thanks for the letter and talking us through. good to see you. >> thanks so much. some other news in the wake
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of mass shootings in texas and ohio. republican senator lindsey graham says he has spoken with president trump about gun reform. he says the president is determined to do something about it. >> we talked today about the red flag laws and the background checks. and i said i said tthe time has do more and we will find hopefully some bipartisan space here. my view is that there are some people out there that need help buying a gun. and i'm tired of trying to explain to parents that come to washington why we didn't do something. >> so we heard senator graham saying it's time to do more than pray. democrats are probably, you know, once bitten, twice shy. should thenl donald trump and
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lindsey graham are ready to make these moves on gun reform? >> donald trump, yes. lindsey graham, no. donald trump has throughout his career exhibited interest in gun control measures, in part because he's a new york city style republican. i mean, this is the kind of policy that appeals to him. my concern is that universal background checks wouldn't have captured these two shooters. you have to commit some criminal act in order to be captured and that doesn't capture private sellers selling to other individuals. red flag laws can infringe on civil liberties in a way that is troubling. and it wouldn't necessarily capture people who don't have people around them who are personally responsible. red flag laws work in a place where there are people around
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with sensibility, doesn't know what to do about their troubled person in their life. without that culture of personal responsibility that both imposes on people as their responsibility pore people around them and stigmatizes people who abuse those laws, they're not going to work. >> we all know that and they wouldn't capture everyone. but the argument is if they capture one person who might be thinking about doing this, then it's worth it. do you believe, tom, that lindsey graham is ready to move on gun reform? >> no. i just -- >> so what is he doing that? >> when he says the time has come, i agree, i think the time has come that we can do something symbolic and say we passed some law. and it could be -- i think for example one thing that would be useful, i have the same concern. i think what's going to happen and my concern about what's going to happen is that a red flag law or a weak good ka mayor tan exception or something would be passed and then we'll say,
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you see, we finally did something when, in fact, that does nothing. >> that is precisely what chuck schumer has said. that gives the appearance of something when democrats want more. >> both are important and i would support both, but i don't think we'll not only pin the president down to how far is he willing to get on each of those issues, but can you trust him at the end of the day to make a deal with him? and that's where i think it's lucy and the football. i think you're going to go in there and every single time he has changed his position on it. but the real solution right now, and i think actually the most viable one even as the election year comes closer, is banning those high capacity magazines. it's similar to the bump stock argument. >> but if you can't get background checks and red flag laws passed -- >> but certainly -- >> but the democrats i've been speaking to, they're not optimistic about something like that getting passed, let alone
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the assault weapons ban. >> not an assault weapons ban because you can't run in a campaign year someone is taking your guns away. but because of all the issues surrounding background checks and red flags, a piece of hardware, when you show that capacity of the magazine itself, like a bump stock that can cause 41 shots in 24 seconds, that is what is causing this and that would make a dramatic different and save lives immediately. civil liberties do not apply to a piece of hardware. >> but here is the question we keep asking. if things weren't necessarily done after newtown where children lost their lives, if things weren't done after parkland where you have the president saying i'm supporting red flag laws and background checks and had a conversation and walked that back, why now? >> part of the issue is after florida, we actually saw change. 23 days after parkland, we saw legislative change. why? because as parents and children gave it all.
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they gave up their bare essence to get that by sheer force. and, unfortunately, more and more of these mass shootings are happening. they're starting to effect more and more people. it's coming to a critical mass where everyone in this country sadly will soon enough be with one or two steps from someone involved in a mass shooting. >> congress comes back in a couple of weeks. we'll see if they're serious about doing something about guns. coming up next, jacob joins us with a look at his series, "american swamp." plus, not long ago, president trump argued american immigrant children were not necessarily entitled to soap and toothpaste. that's next on "morning joe." sod toothpaste that's next on "morning joe. you wouldn't do only half of your daily routine. so why treat your mouth any differently? listerine® completes the job by preventing plaque, early gum disease, and killing up to 99.9% of germs.
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plus no payments for up to 90 days. only at your lincoln dealer. a panel of judges ruled yesterday that immigrant children detained by the united states government should receive clean water, soap, and toothpaste under a long standing agreement over detention conditions. the ruling followed a june hearing where a u.s. government lawyer said the agreement was vague and might not mandate that basic hygiene supplies like tooth brush and soap must be provided to children during stints in custody. the u.s. government argued that
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facilities had to be safe and sanitary. the court dismissed the government's appeal. joining us now msnbc correspondent jacob soboroff. good morning. good to see you, man. "american swamp" series finale this weekend. what can we expect? >> i want to say katy tur wanted to be here but is still technically on maternity leave so dealing with the business of new motherhood. >> as she should. >> sends her regards to everybody. we set out to figure out what is the swamp? has donald trump drained it? what can all of us do about it? we've gone over the course of the series, the four episodes from looking at money in politics to the president's shady business dealings and over and over again what we keep hearing is people don't believe that washington, d.c. is looking out for them. so last we move to the election system and this week looking at infrastructure. this is actually the long, desired infrastructure week that president trump never actually got to complete.
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we're doing it on "american swamp" and looking at it through the lens of why washington cannot get it done. here is a little clip. we're driving under 5 miles an hour on an interstate highway. honestly, literally every member of congress should have to sit in los angeles bumper-to-bumper traffic as punishment for not passing infrastructure. then i think infrastructure would pass. >> i think that would be defined as cruel and unusual punishment. we're crawling along the 10 freeway west of downtown los angeles. the problem here isn't crumbling roads. it's that there are just too many cars, a fact jacob and i are painfully aware of having both grown up here. >> i will say i'm somewhat optimistic because l.a. is trying to expand the subways and light rail. have you ever been on the train in l.a.? >> i have never been on the train in l.a. >> they are getting it done. having grown up here i think when you see it for the first
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time it lets you change your whole outlook on infrastructure. >> viewers can expect a full hour of jacob and katy sitting in traffic. >> just sitting in the car. correspondents in the car talking to each other. >> going to be great. i suspect there is more over the course of the hour. >> it is actually just that, willy, unfortunately. >> i would watch the two of you sitting in traffic an hour. >> thank you. >> this is obviously a problem not just about l.a. we talk about new york city and the subways and all the problems we have with that here. it is sort of an age-old question. is there any impetus to get moving on infrastructure? it is always held up as the one thing maybe democrats and republicans in washington could agree on. >> we thought it was going to happen and president trump walked out of a very important infrastructure meeting with nancy pelosi and chuck schumer and democratic leadership to an impromptu news conference in the rose garden where he had a sign set up saying no collusion and no obstruction. frankly, it doesn't look good. l.a. happens to be, pardon the pun, the light at the end of the tunnel where infrastructure has happened. we built light rail out here in
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l.a. and subways with a partnership between federal and local authorities but new york city is perhaps the greatest example of how catastrophic an infrastructure could be. we go down into the gateway tunnel that connects penn station with new jersey and the rest of the eastern seaboard, the northeastern corridor for amtrak, 200,000 people take that tunnel every single day. when i went down there, water is leaking from the hudson river into the tunnel. you see icicles in the winter hanging down from the top. electricity is blowing out. if that thing goes down not only do 200,000 people not have a way to get in and out of new york city but you could have a substantial number of deaths if there is a catastrophic, systemic failure in that tunnel. it is absurd because both republicans and democrats agree that we have to do something about this. people's lives literally hang in the balance. but ken buck the congressman from colorado i think said it best to katy tur. you do not get punished for doing nothing in washington, d.c. so instead of putting themselves out there politically, they just decide to sit back on their
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hands and ultimately let the american people potential suffer. >> one of the things that i find striking about this is the way that we think the president, you know, i love making fun of the president about the endless infrastructure week just like everybody else but i used to work in state government and i felt a secertain amount of my j in state government was trying to figure out how to offload our problems on to the federal government. what is the responsibility for state and local governments in participating in this problem in infrastructure? it seems like we really do now elect presidents to say, you know, the president's job is to fix a bridge in missouri. when in fact missouri has a governor and a legislature, and a lot of people meant to take care of missouri. how do we think about this balance between executive power and local and state power? that is really an important partnership. >> that is exactly where the dysfunction lies. it is a disagreement between how much as you know localities will pony up and the federal government will either match or
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complement those funds. if gateway project and the tunnel under the hudson river is infrastructure project number one, number two is the brent spence bridge that connects ohio and kentucky. we went there, too. i drove over it in an 18 wheeler that is literally not a shoulder on the highway. it was built decades ago and is another thing if there is a catastrophic failure this will cripple not only commerce but also stop people from getting where they need to go. the brent spence bridge where the trump administration wants the localities to be is something like 80% local money. they just simply don't have the tax base. here in los angeles we were able, the government, and voters, people like myself voted ourselves to tax ourselves to pay for the subway system because of how horrendous the traffic is. the reality is when you hear politicians in washington talking about we need localities to pick up a great deal of this, sometimes there just simply isn't the tax base for that to happen so you are faced with a
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stand-off, a situation where people are sitting around saying where is this money going to come from and president trump says he'll fix it but he is not ponying up the money. >> so early in this presidency the fear among conventional republicans was donald trump was going to jump ship and do some sort of gigantic infrastructure bill with democrats without republicans maybe a couple votes but really just abandoning republican orthodoxy about fiscal conservativism. didn't happen. in the interim there's been a lot more bad blood between democrats in congress and donald trump. we do see these meetings but they don't amount to much. is there any political will among democrats to sign something with donald trump in terms of infrastructure? >> the irony is president trump allegedly in that closed door meeting and we get sort of behind the scenes of that meeting in the show suggested that he would be open to raising the gas tax. it's sort of this long talked about never increased or not for quite sometime proposal that could very well raise a bunch of
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the money to do this. democrats are proposing a very small increase in the gas tax. donald trump walked in allegedly and said let's just raise it a quarter cent in order to pay for some of this stuff. obviously behind the scenes republicans freaked out about that. that was a place where the democrats and president trump thought they might be able to find common ground but republicans in washington, d.c. obviously talked president trump down from that and now here we are back at infrastructure week on "american swamp" only not in washington, d.c. >> jacob, it's been a great series and the finale of "american swamp" airs this sunday at 9:00 p.m. only on msnbc. katy and jacob in traffic for an hour. it's going to be great. great to see you. thanks so much. as we wrap up this morning live pictures from manhattan where officials are responding now to an unconfirmed report of a suspicious device in a separate location from the other two devices we told you about located in a downtown subway station. we'll certainly be keeping an eye on this throughout the
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morning. that does it for us. enjoy the weekend. chris jansing picks up our coverage right now. thank you so much. hello there. i am chris jansing in for stephanie ruhle. it is friday, august 16th, and here's what's happening. the pressure is building for 2020 and it appears nobody is feeling that pressure more than president trump. trump's frustration and fear on full display last night at a new hampshire rally. 90 minutes of rambling often repetitive attacks on his political enemies, the press, china, nato. even insulting a protester for his looks. and then trump hung his 2020 prospects on the economy. >> is there anything better than a trump rally? >> no! >> what about a sleepy joe biden rally? you got kamala, kamala is falling. you got beto. beto is, like -- gone.

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