tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC August 16, 2019 10:00pm-11:00pm PDT
checked was found to have cesium 137. in his or her muscle tisch. they are not saying whether this is a doctors turning up with in their bodies is a very bad sign of what happened last week in russia. how dangerous does it continue to be, have they cleaned up whatever it is that happened, have they cleaned up the blast site itself? we are over a week out now. we still really have no idea. i will tell you, though, that the nation of norway is now saying they've detected radiation on their russian border. this whole story is still unspooling. we will keep you apprised as we learn more. swatch this space. now it's time for "last word" where ari melber is in for lawrence tonight.
tonight donald trump has some troubling poll numbers even he is concerned about. 40% in these potential matchups with democratic opponents. that may not even be the worst of it. check this out, the president finding new ways to create diplomatic crises of his own making around the globe, we're not even just talking about the idea of buying greenland. and then there's this fresh reporting, quote, he's rattled. that is how one republican is now describing president trump's fears, his state of mind, his private anxiety facing these potential economic jitters. according to new reporting fresh tonight from "the washington post." donald trump has long been banking on a strong economy to be his key, his path to some sort of narrow electoral college re-election. now in public and in private the president apparently shaken by these jitters and this market slump this week. "the post" reporting mounting
signs of global economic stress this week have alarmed president trump who's worried a downturn could imperil his re-election. the president has sounded anxious or apprehensive. or take this from "the new york times," in private he's expressed his own anxiety about the economy taking a dive knowing his electoral fortunes are likely tied to it. and that's not all. while those are accounts from rigorous and fact check newspapers, there are other indicators that the president follows as well, like this new polling from fox news. a growing number of americans simply unhappy with the way donald trump deals with the economy. and this is of course any big market adjustment hits, if it does hit. 46% of voters say imposing tariffs on these import products from places like china hurts the economy. so as the president's fears rise how does he respond? well, we're seeing a pattern. it's one you may know about. it's a time of deflection and division attacking political rivals.
here's how "the new york times" described trump's rally last night in new hampshire. quote, his speech was at times a greatest hits album of favorite lines. replaying the 2016 campaign against clinton, bashing the news media, democrats and america's allies in europe. typically rambling on and off scripts seemingly at random for over a hour and a half. "the times" reports the president repeated points he'd made earlier in the evening as if he did not remember already making them. the president also failing to address the recent mass shootings in el paso and dayton, and at one point donald trump apparently always looking for something to attack turned apparently on a supporter, on a fellow maga traveller who the president erroneously thought was a protester. >> that guy's got a serious
weight problem. go home, start exercising. get him out of here, please. got a bigger problem than i do. got a bigger problem than all of us. now he goes home and his mom says what the hell have you just done. >> and while donald trump may be happy to blame old and new enemies for his own problems, he is not addressing his own accountability. and that may explain why he is reportedly uninterested in even exploring policies or steps he could take to deal with these economic problems. turning to that "post" reporting get this, officials in the white house at treasury and throughout the administration planning now new steps to attempt to stave off a recession. so the president is not leading,
if the buck doesn't stop with him. if the great deal maker we heard about so much in 2016 literally hasn't done anything to the degree that "the washington post" can even say there's a plan, then what is the plan? well, if you have followed the news and you're watching the news so maybe you have, you can probably guess this part. apparently the plan is deny there's any problem at all. "the post" reporting donald trump has a conspiratorial view at this point telling confidants he doesn't trust what he sees in the media. this is not the last time we're likely to hear that kind of response from this president about problems independent experts and independent data says he's responsible as we head towards an election that, again, according to the reporting he is now nervous about. we have a lot in tonight's edition of "last word." leading off our discussion former republican congressman david jolly, and christina greer, associate professor at fordham university. good to see both of you.
david, what jumps out to you in this picture? >> a lot there to unpack. the president set the national narrative, the nation's priorities, a podium at the microphone. and it's important to see what we didn't hear last night. how to address the violence we saw in texas and california and ohio. we didn't hear a defense of the fundamental liberties of expression and dissent that are being challenged by one of our greatest allies in israel and instead we saw a president trying to sell an economy. the president is focused on the economy because it's his greatest strength. i don't think he's focused on it because the economy is so strong. i think he's focused on selling it because there's a fundamental uncertainty among voters about the economy. consider if you are the 50% that's not in the market, your economic situation is not appreciably different.
there's an objection of uncertainty on a daily basis by this president. so whenever you are in the economy today, you're worried. donald trump is not touting the economy. he's trying to sell it because he knows that the voters are uncertain about it. this is president very worried and also not focused, frankly, on the issues that have the most urgency among the american people this week which are gun violence and this issue with israel. >> christina? >> i agree with the congressman. i think we also didn't hear a link to these tax cuts that he promised would grown be a real boom for regular americans. i agree with the congressman in the sense that we're talking about the overarching economy. when it comes to dollars and cents for actual americans,
they're not seeing their lives improve. and i think that's what's making the president quite nervous. the other piece is this president focuses consistently on the campaigning phase of the job and not really -- isn't really quite interested in the governance phase. and the governance piece is really making sure the tax cuts he and his party pass actually trickle down to regular americans and they have not and will not. we knew before it was pasdsed and when the president was touting it, it would help his cronies and friends and members of congress who were republicans. and now we see as we get closer and closer to 2020 the president will be an ofull-fledged campaigning phase, but he will have to answer some questions hopefully from someone about governance and hopefully lots of democratic candidates will also really link the failure of the tax cuts and his tax plan to what's really happening to americans when they, you know, get a check every two weeks or if they get a check every two weeks. we have to remember the vast majority of americans don't have a savings and don't have a bit
of money in 401 ks and long-term planning. that's unfortunate. that's not a problem that started with donald trump and certainly not a problem that started with barack obama. that's a challenge we're facing as a nation and this president has not made the situation better at all. >> congressman, donald trump's not the first politician to trade on fear and try to buy low and sell high. but i wondered if you have ever seen anything quite like one of the claims he made as he was sort of clearly improvising. "the times" reporting it was 90 minutes of repetition as the economy seeped out on his mind last night. take a look. >> see the bottom line is i know you like me and this room is a love fest. i know that. but you have no choice but to vote for me because your 401ks, down the tubes, everything is going to be down the tubes. so whether you love me or hate me, you've got to vote for me. >> what is that there?
>> he's the master of making hypothetical comparative arguments. his fundamental argument is essentially you'd be worse off with democrats. so if things are good i will make them greater. if they're bad they would be worse under democrats. and that's essentially what he's selling, and his followers will believe him and his critics won't. we often look at the comparative analysis of economic indicators going into an election, and there's a lot of focus on that rightly so. but there's a factor that's not an economic indicator but i think a political one when it comes to the economy, and that is the factor of resentment. i think one thing the economy has contributed to is an acceleration of the welt gap. and so if you are not a beneficiary of this economy, you are looking at a tax plan that benefits the wealthy. you're looking at uncertainty for health care in the obama lawsuit. you're looking at more
challenges to homeownership for lower and middle class income families. and as a result we may be in an economy that's continuing to grow but if you're not on the right side of that economy you're going to get a resentment among voters and i believe strongly that is there. this is not an enthusiastic economy we sometimes see in a bubble. this is simply an economy continuing to steadily grow but it's burdened by an economy we typically don't see in past cycles. >> i wonder just on the policy side of this, things do over time follow the leader. and while the president's own team is worried the federal government is somehow out to get him, deep state, quote-unquote we've heard that more or less lessly, on top -- take a look at more of this reporting. administration officials reportedly not actively planning for a recession because they don't believe one will occur.
they worry making such plans will validate a narrative about the economy and precipitate a crash, according to people involved in internal discussions. i mean, congressman, does that even sound proper to you? isn't their whole job to have a plan a and b, not were yg about having a plan b will make people fear a plan b will be necessary? >> he will not let his closest advisers provide him with the best intelligence or information. if it's matters of national security or economy the president simply doesn't want to hear it because he believes he's the smartest person in the room. it is, ari, why we see such uncertainty. we know that the dow has grown, and if you're in that market, if you're in the equity market, you have more money in your accounts today but you're rattled by the insecurity of a president who by a single tweet can inject volatility into a market. and depending on which industry
you're most closely associated with either through your labor or investment, you're not necessarily seeing the gains of a growing economy. so this is an uncern market, and we're reminded of that every time the president rejects his own advisers council or restricts their ability to do what we typically expect presidential economic advisers. >> christina? >> well, i think the congressman mentioned some voludpoints a while back when he said there's this resentment and anxiety voters feel, but the third animus that plays out on the financial level. we've had candidates in the past play on reswrendment in the economy or anxiety, but we haven't seen in modern day a president ever use the racial animus this particular president has used. and so when we think about the few americans percentage wise who actually are involved in conversations about the dow,
most americans are not. and it's a paycheck to paycheck scenario so many people are living in, but if donald trump can continue to frame his economic policy as you don't have not because i have failed to plan, not because i've ignored my advisers, not because i'm used to going bankrupt and just leaving whatever business i've started and moving on, it's because of uncertainty, you know, whatever racial or ethnic group from latin america, not europe, right? and so this is part of the new equation that i think a lot of democratic strategists are trying to figure out because there are so many americans who are still contemplating voting for this president based on what they're calling economic issues, but we know they're shrouded in a much deeper racial resentment that is being seeded every day by the president.
>> david jolly and christina greer, thanks to both of you for joining us. we have north korea testing missiles and democracy itself being tested in hong kong. later new poll numbers showing trump trailing even including tied in a red state he needs to win. all that ahead tonight. when crabe stronger...strong, with new nicorette coated ice mint. layered with flavor... it's the first and only coated nicotine lozenge.
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them essentially with self-inflicted diplomatic snafus for the united states. it was just the beginning of this week that few would have said, well, this is the time in the middle of the summer the american president should get a public rebuke from of all places greenland. but it all began with a report last night in "the wall street journal" revealing donald trump was using taxpayer dollars to put serious effort into trying to purchase what is basically a semiautonomous region from denmark. and now the governor of greenland issues this response saying, hey, we're not for sale. now this gaffe is the lesser of course of two international up roars trump created this week. and tonight he's continuing to tweet about the u.s. congresswomen that he convinced the governor of israel through prime minister benjamin netanyahu to ban from visiting reversal israel's previous policy because they were going to let them in until donald trump put on the heat. this has been roundly criticized and put the israeli government basically on its heels.
today here's the update, israel reversing its reversal sort of and offering one of the congresswomen, representative tlaib, conditional entry so that she could see her palestinian grandmother who lives over in the west bank region. the congresswoman under these circumstances after what happened is rejecting that condition invite. and you hop over to asia where china's police force has been holding military style exercises. some see this as an effort to intemidate a pro-democracy movement there. president trump despite inentries from inside america will not lift a finger yet to support pro-democracy protest members but instead saying we'll see if we can work something out. the tests come a week after trump lavished praise on kim jong-un and pledged to meet with the dictator again citing a,
quote, beautiful letter. >> i got a very beautiful letter from kim jong-un yesterday. he really wrote a beautiful three page, num top to bottom a really beautiful letter. >> i'm joined now by a former senior advisor at the state department, and also a former deputy chief of staff to president clinton. thanks to both of you for joining me on a friday night. i wonder how big a problem are these things in the category of things the u.s. doesn't have to do wrong or do at all and is choosing to do under trump at a time when americans are understandably following a lot of different stories. this stuff can get ignored or forgotten and yet it seems to have potential significance. >> right, these are all self-inflicted wounds at a time when the world is already in
crisis, right? you're looking at a worldwide economic downturn. we have 75 million people who were either refugees or displaced. that's a crisis throughout the middle east, europe, and we know about asia as well. and within that donald trump as a leader of the united states, ostensibly as the leader of the free world has the power of words, diplomacy and military strength. unfortunately, he only seems to value the military strength and only values that when other people look strong as well. his words can be powerful in this moment to help just calm the waters. instead the language he uses, the moments he picks really tend to inflame tensions and put our allies at risk. the north korea example is a perfect one. he's platered a dictator. he's not actually signed any negotiating deal other than personal promises and love letters. and now you have these missiles that have been tested that are more accurate, that our military
says are harder to shoot down and that directly threatens south korea and japan. >> maria, what is the fall out or accountability for anything regarding the unusual move with the president asking israel to help retaliate against domestic opponents. is that an abuse of power? >> it certainly seems unprecedented. the reality that he is now signaling to dictators and autocrats across the world that if they have a problem with a u.s. official they can refuse entry. we have for decades developed a reputation for having the high ground. yes, we've made mistakes, no question about it. but we were a beacon of democracy, of process, of facts, of truth. and what this president has done by intimidating israel and then
having this latest reversal by israel is really shown the world what michelle goldberg wrote today, that president trump is playing jenga, you know the game where you pull the pieces of wood and then it becomes unstable and everything falls apart? except it's the world. and what it reflects, every single misstep if you look at north korea, if you look at hong kong, it is a lack of intellectual curiosity, someone who believes so strongly that he knows everything and unfortunately that man controls our department of defense. he's the commander in chief, and was the leader -- is the leader of the free world. i bet many of our allies are extremely concerned about what the president is doing. between the economic concerns and we haven't even talked about kashmir.
what is going on around the planet should give all of us tremendous concern. >> go ahead. >> and the challenge is that it's affecting u.s. interests overseas. so clearly our ideals and the american brand and reputation vaeb degraded under donald trump but when we're looking at american interests in the middle east, you now have people organizing and looking to have movements, for example, the germans discussing what they're going to do in the strait of hormuz and they're not talking about coordinating with the u.s. anymore. you have india as maria mentioned who's violated nuclear accords, moved into kashmir and you have two nuclear countries who could potentially go back to war over an issue they have fought over before. again donald trump and the united states absent from all of
this which will indirectly and directly come back to the harm national security and the american consumer. >> and maria, it's friday night and 2019, so i guess my last question to you is should we buy greenland? >> yeah, i think, you know, as many have written this man makes foreign policy by twitter. it's whatever comes into his head and the fact we're actually talking about this ridiculous idea to me is just -- we need to let people know that the president may be delusional about what can be done, but we are a democracy. we do have congress, and i highly suggest that our members of congress continue to look at what this president and his administration is doing. and i would say what he did with israel and with our two representatives really requires some serious consideration of abuse of power and that is impeachable. >> strong words for a rocky week
for the president abroad. thanks to both of you. coming up there's a new poll showing donald trump tied in a red state and another one him trailing nationwide. why that contributes to him feeling rattled. later in the autopsy results of jeffrey epstein. we'll tell you what you need to know. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
democrats but el actually to all four offered in the poll. is it just rooting for the resistance? well, it's from fox news has biden up 50 to 38. sanders 48 to 39. warren 46 to 39. and harris by a tighter 45 to 39. this has donald trump's attention, and here's he's saying about his potential challenger last night. >> but we'll see what happens whoever -- you know, whoever it is, i don't know that it matters. but whoever it is, different -- different people. >> well, it didn't matter exactly in the fox poll, which admittedly is very early and may relate to name recognition, but each of those democrats that fox put up would in the hypothetical poll appear to be more popular than trump if the election were held today. and that goes to a bigger problem he's aware of. he did want break 40% against any of them. that's lower than his actual approval rating, which in fairness is low but slightly
higher at 43%. his disapproval a near record 56%, at a time of stress, of division of donald trump's bungled response according to many to these horrific mass shootings. and a new poll of north carolina by a another right leaning group, a conservative think tank, shows trump tied within a marger of error with democrats there. and their headline for the poll, president trump leads top democratic candidates by, quote, by a razor thin margin. the margin of error, though, more than 4 points. david and christina are back. what does that look like to you, david? >> historically terrible numbers for an incumbent president in his first term who is touting a strong economy. i mean, these a bad numbers, ari. as you mentioned not breaking the 40% threshold. he's down 6 to 8 to 10 points by some of these candidates. his disapproval numbers are hitting a historic high. this is president that's in trouble. i think the one thing democrats
can take from this which is fascinating compared to where we were about three or four months ago, you know, when the democratic priinary really started to get legs there was a conversation around elect nlt. was joe biden the only candidate that can beat trump. i think what we're seeing right now is any one of these democratic candidates that emerge can beat the president of the united states. that includes someone who's considered very progressive like elizabeth warren or bernie sanders. and i think if you went to the next tier where we didn't really see matchup, if they were to emerge out of iowa, new hampshire, south carolina as a leading candidate simply because of their introduction to the nation and name recognition they'd be 6 to 8 points ahead of the president as well. this is good poll for democrats but a bad one for the president of the united states. >> you make an interesting point there about the multiple layers of the way this stuff matters. because, christina, on the one
hand predictions far-out of an election are worth about as much as a maga hat in san francisco. very close to zero. but on the other hand david speaks to a political reality in the media kind of internet world we live in. whether it's good or bad it is a reality as he says a lot of people who are in a resistance, who want to defeat trump are following this closely and if one of the political issues is -- and again i don't know if it's provable. but if there was a perception one person was way more electable than others, that might play into this primary. i wonder david's observation if this becomes the premise, that there are multiple candidates who have a good shot and not one of them that is clearly quote-unquote more or less electable, does that actually open up the primary field in a way for democrats to figure out wait a minute, who do they support, not just who is being put on the throne of electability.
>> i agree 100%. i think this does change the conversation buzz far too many democrats are saying i'd really like insert name, elizabeth warren, pete buttigieg, julian castro, but i don't think they can win. so, you know, there's biden and bernie tend to be at the top of the ticket because of name recognition, because of their history serving the nation as public servants. but also there's some demographics that a lot of democrats are interested in because they think that a matchup between an older white male and another white male will win. what this poll has shown us is one, the president is in trouble. but i definitely think we're so far-out we've seen unfortunately when we have catastrophic events that happen as a nation, that obviously gives the president as a bump. so something that happened closer to the election, that would change polling obviously
especially if he was able to deal with the situation in somewhat of a guise of a leadership role. we also know that, you know, as voters learn a lot more about particular candidates they can -- they can be swayed. and so this is helpful for democrats to really have honest conversations with voters beyond just iowa, new hampshire and south carolina to say, you know, in many ways the way barack obama did in 2007. you may not have thought i could win, but i'm clearly building a coalition. i'm togging about policies that are substantive to you, so you don't have to vote are for your second or third choice just because demographically you think they're going to win against the sitting president. you can vote for your first choice. and that is really important conversation for democrats to have. >> the other thing i want to ask you about christina which also comes through in the fox news poll is for people traditionally patriotic, it is painful to deal with the fact the united states is governed by a president who is liar, who traffics in hate, who is so divisive. that is not something to be celebrated even if people think it gives perhaps their side some political edge. it's not a happy state of affairs.
and yet to underplay that doesn't help it at all. so i wonder what you think of this other finding in the fox news poll that shows there is actually some bipartisan unity about the fact that the president sows disunity, that this is not a disagreed upon point. again, citing fox news when asked is donald trump drawing the country together, it's only 31%. a smaller portion of perhaps his base that even feels that way. and then there is this larger unity, christina, of 59%. that's a coalition if you ever wanted to get anything passed. that says, no, at this point speaking to fox news pollsters he is, quote, tearing the country apart. christina? >> right, i think, though, there are far too many republicans that know he's a liar and they're not concerned enough about it to do something to get him out of office. so we're looking at say republicans in congress who
consistently cover for him and his lies. my concern is this, when you have people who fill out or answer polls and say, you know, i do think the president is ripping the country apart, i do think the president is a liar, maybe i could be swayed, you know, we saw this many, many years ago with mayor bradley in los angeles when lots of voters said they were going to vote for this african-american for governor of california, and then when they went to the polls they did not. obviously there was a big concern when obama did the same thing when he ran for the presidency. and so here we're seeing people say one thing which is i think he's a liar, i think he's ripping the country apart. but when it comes to going to the voting booth in 2020, did those individuals vote what we know which is we have to change course? we don't know. >> very well laid out and we've called on you for more than one part of the show. thanks so much. hope you guys have a great weekend. coming up we fit in a break
and ethen an update on a story that's really dogged the trump administration. it's responsibility for failures in a prison it was in charge of in the jeffrey effstein investigation with new information from his autopsy results breaking today. just a chair. that a handle is just a handle. or -- that you can't be both inside and outside. most people haven't driven a lincoln. discover the lincoln approach to craftsmanship at the lincoln summer invitation. right now, get 0% apr on all 2019 lincoln vehicles plus no payments for up to 90 days. only at your lincoln dealer. woman 1: i had no symptoms of hepatitis c. man 1: mine... man 1: ...caused liver damage. vo: epclusa treats all main types of chronic hep c. vo: whatever your type, ask your doctor if epclusa is your kind of cure. woman 2: i had the common type. man 2: mine was rare.
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♪ corey is living with metastatic breast cancer, which is breast cancer that has spread to other parts of her body. she's also taking ibrance with an aromatase inhibitor, which is for postmenopausal women or for men with hr+ / her2- metastatic breast cancer as the first hormonal based therapy. ibrance plus letrozole was significantly more effective at delaying disease progression versus letrozole. patients taking ibrance can develop low white blood cell counts, which may cause serious infections that can lead to death. before taking ibrance, tell your doctor if you have fever, chills, or other signs of infection, liver or kidney problems, are pregnant, breastfeeding, or plan to become pregnant. common side effects include low red blood cell and low platelet counts, infections, tiredness, nausea, sore mouth, abnormalities in liver blood tests, diarrhea, hair thinning or loss, vomiting, rash, and loss of appetite.
corey calls it her new normal because a lot has changed, but a lot hasn't. ask your doctor about ibrance. the #1 prescribed fda-approved oral combination treatment for hr+/her2- mbc. that is the bottom line conclusion of the new york medical examiner who determined today the cause of death for jeffrey epstein was suicide by hanging. his autopsy results come following a week of rampant speculation about what happened after epstein was found mysteriously dead in his manhattan jail cell which is under the supervision of the trump administration while awaiting this much publicized trial on sex trafficking charges. tonight epstein's lawyers are casting doubt on the findings. they're saying, quote, they're team intends to conduct it's own independent and complete investigation into circumstances and cause of mr. epstein's death. now other investigations are already under way as lawmakers
demand answers from the trump administration's doj bureau of prisons. these are basic questions like why was epstein suddenly taken off suicide watch when there'd been an apparent previous suicide attempt. and why were procedures intended to deal with exactly this same situation not followed in the case of individuals a, famous, and b publicly linked to officials in the trump administration. as well as linked to several democrats we can add, but when it comes to conflicts of interests it's those trump links that have a lot of questions left unanswered. and then take this quote in "the washington post," epstein was left alone in a cell and guards failed to check on him for several hours after guards gave explicit am instructions to check on him every 30 minutes. there are whole different set of cases proceeding and they are important. this is about epstein's accusers continuing to use the court
process to seek justice. attorney general barr says authorities will continue to investigate two alleged accomplices. >> let me assure you that this case will continue on against anyone who was complicit with epstein. any coconspirators should not rest easy. the victims deserve justice, and they will get it. >> "the new york times" reporting manhattan federal prosecutors have not charged or named anyone as a former coconspirator but in 2007 a non pros cushion agreement between mr. epstein and federal officials in florida including a later trump cabinet member said prosecutors would not charge four women who were identified at the time as, quote, potential coconspearatize. one of those potential coconspirators, and police have
been scrambling to find her because she faces a new lawsuit from one victim who alleges that socialite gave quote organization to epstein's sex trafficking ring procuring underage girls for his pleasure, end quote. and other staffers referred to as quote, recruiter, secretary and maid. we're going to fit in a break and then turn to some of the important discussions tonight around what happens next in these investigations into epstein's death, the hunt for the potential coconspirator and what it means for the trump administration with so many questions swirling around their conduct. all of that with one of our experts. so i can buy from
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since jeffrey epstein killed himself she will never have the closure of confronting him in a court of law. however, she's still going to go forward and go after his accomplices. >> that was one of the attorneys for jeffrey epstein's accuser who filed a lawsuit this week against epstein's estate and several associates. we interviewed her on "the beat." they alleged there was a wider coordination of epstein's sex trafficking operation. i want to turn now to glen kirschner. a lot of the attention lately is understandably around the mysterious death of mr. epstein. as we've been reporting, some of
these suits are moving forward not in connection to his death, regardless of his death, but because of these laws that allow accusers to come forward, and some have allowed for more time for that. so our viewers understand walk us through how this works and what more we may learn and what more accountability they occur even though mr. epstein is deceased. >> there are a still a number of moving parts to this. i think more importantly because the southern district of new york had already brought a conspiracy charge against jeffrey epstein for the sex trafficking, it's hard to -- it's hard to conceive there will not be additional people brought in and charged as being part of this conspiracy. we've already heard about ms. maxwell. we've already seen other co-conspirators named in that nonprosecution agreement down in florida involving epstein's earlier sex trafficking. so i fully expect that we will
see in the coming weeks additional charges brought by the southern district of new york prosecutors against some of epstein's co-conspirators. then the other moving piece, as you mentioned, is some of jeffrey epstein's victims will be allowed to bring suit against epstein's estate. now, that gets a little tricky when you have potentially civil litigation sort of going on at the same time criminal litigation is proceeding in the event they make arrests of co-conspirators. what i can tell you -- and i've encountered that as a prosecutor -- what ordinarily will happen is the civil proceedings will be stayed. they'll be paused while the criminal proceedings move forward, and at the conclusion of the criminal proceedings, that's when the civil cases will move forward. so i would expect there's going to be a lot to sort out and a lot of litigants involved, but that's the likely path these two cases will take.
>> how do you think the barr justice department has handled this? >> well, bill barr jumped out and announced what seemed a bit premature, that this was a suicide. now, we have a ruling. we have a summary conclusion in essence from dr. barbara sampson, who is the chief medical examiner for the city of new york. and, you know, i hope she'll forgive me, but i'm a little bit skeptical when i hear a government official giving us a summary conclusion. her conclusion, as has been reported out today, is that the cause of death was hanging, and the manner of death was suicide. it's all well and good to hear that conclusion. of course if we accepted conclusions from government officials these days, we would still be believing that there was no obstruction, no collusion because that was the summary conclusion bill barr gave the
american people until we saw the mueller report for itself. so, ari, here's what i'd like to see as a former homicide prosecutor. i want the medical examiner's office for the city of new york to be transparent with the american people. we need to see the autopsy report, and we need to see the supporting investigation. for example, we know that jeffrey epstein's hyoid bone was broken. i can tell you that is more consistent with homicide by manual strangulation than it is with a suicide hanging. now, it's not completely inconsistent with a suicide hanging, particularly a hanging where there has been some velocity involved. but this was a low-velocity hanging because of the nature of setting, in a cell where gravity has to do the work. i've dealt with multiple manual strangulation cases, and, you know, i want to see the toxicology report. i want to see the results of dna
testing from underneath jeffrey epstein's fingernail scrapings to see if he perhaps scratched somebody and transferred dna under his fingernails. we need transparency, and we need to see more than just a summary conclusion. >> glenn kirschner, thank you very much as always. >> thanks, ari. a final break, and we will be right back. just a chair. that a handle is just a handle. or -- that you can't be both inside and outside. most people haven't driven a lincoln. discover the lincoln approach to craftsmanship at the lincoln summer invitation. right now, get 0% apr on all 2019 lincoln vehicles plus no payments for up to 90 days. only at your lincoln dealer.
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that's what i do is i build. i was always very good at building. it was always my best thing, i think better than being president, i was maybe good at building. >> june 2017, the trump white house began infrastructure week, promising a trillion dollars revamp. if you haven't seen the results, that's because there really aren't any. on sunday night, there's the finale of nbc docu-series american swamp, looking at why. even with potential bipartisan backing, there's very little getting done on trump's claims that he would fix america's crumbling roads and bridges and tunnels. and guess what? it's friday night, and msnbc correspondent jacob soboroff is right here on the last word. what did you find, and what will people see in the finale? >> in my home library here, ari, it's good to see you on this friday night. we found that donald trump did not follow through with infrastructure week. so we're going to have one of our own as a matter of fact.
he said he's the best builder. politicians on both sides of the aisle obviously have been talking about how critical this all is for quite some time, but it never gets done. at the end of the day, what we found is that surprise, surprise, politicians put themselves and their political fortunes ahead of the american people, who really desperately need infrastructure. so this is a bit of a spoiler alert, but we end the episode in los angeles, my hometown, and katy's hometown. this is what we came up with. take a look at this. >> we're driving under 5 miles an hour on an interstate highway. literally every member of congress should have to sit in bumper to bumper traffic as punishment. >> i think that would be defined as cruel and unusual punishment. we're crawling along the 10 freeway west of downtown los angeles. the problem here isn't crumbling roads. it's that there are just too
many cars, a fact that jacob and i are painfully aware of, having both grown up here. >> i will say i'm somewhat optimistic because l.a. is trying to expand the subways and the light rail. have you ever been on the train in l.a.? >> i've never been on the train in l.a. >> they're getting it done. >> i don't think of trains in l.a. >> they're getting it done. having grown up here, i think when you see it for the first time, it will actually change your whole outlook on infrastructure. >> so we're not going to get all the members of congress into a car and put them on the 10 freeway, but one thing that remarkably was very candid from ken buck, the congressman from colorado, you'll hear the full thing in the episode. but he told katy, it doesn't pay to actually stick your neck out and get anything done here. your fortunes will be better ultimately if you don't pass anything and sit on your hands. it's disappointing because literally lives are on the line with infrastructure, ari, and we're going to get into all of it on sunday night. >> jacob, you've also answered the question what happens if you combine investigative reporting with comedians in cars getting coffee.
>> i don't want to get sued by seinfeld, ari. don't do me like that. >> it looks like a great series. thanks for telling us about it. everyone should check it out. american swamp, the finale this sunday night at 9 p. that's tonight's last word. this sunday night at 9:00 p.m. that's tonight's last word. you can always find me on "the beat," 6:00 p.m. eastern. don't go anywhere because "the 11th hour" with brian williams starts now. tonight after a week's worth of political and some diplomatic damage, the president continues to go after two members of congress in particular against a backdrop of real concern on foreign policy and real fear that the economy may be in for a turn. michael moore is here with us tonight to talk about the people of a big american city who have been failed by their government. michael beschloss is with us tonight as well to remind us where we all are right about now as "the 11th hour" gets under way on a summer friday night.