tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC August 23, 2019 12:00am-1:00am PDT
people in dayton, people in el paso, these are incredible people. and those victims and the survivors and the families, i love those people. >> donald trump on how he was received after the two massacres >> donald trump on how he was received after the two massacres that left a death toll combined of 31. and with that, that is our broadcast for this thursday night. thank you so very much for being here with us. good night from nbc news headquarters here in new york. tonight on "all in". >> i'm not going to be able to stay here long because this fire is spreading. >> as the catastrophic fires in the amazon burn, the unmistakable political roots of the world's climate crisis. and my interview with the latest candidate to unveil a climate plan, senator bernie sanders. then, how the rag tag republican plan to primary trump is getting more serious. >> this is the time where somebody's got to be brave.
>> why the shrinking field for democrats could be a good thing. >> i'm john hickenlooper, candidate for united states senate. and new scrutiny for donald trump's attorney general as we learn more from the jeffrey epstein investigation. >> and i think he made a rational calculated decision. "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes. this year has been the year in which the climate crisis has made itself the most ferociously known. that was true last year and the year before that and 2020 will almost certainly be worse, but this year we've already showed you this footage of greenland melting in front of our eyes. we've shown you the fire in siberia in the arctic where the underlying peat is burning, and these are the images that are capturing people's imaginations right now, rightly. much of the amazon is on fire. here is the smoke hovering over brazil's largest city soa paw low. i almost didn't want to put this
on television because i find it so paralyzing terrible. it gives me the same feeling in the pit of my gut when i'm watching the chernobyl mini series. the reason this is so particularly horrifying is not only are the fires releasing carbon in the atmosphere, they're getting rid of what people have called the lungs of the planet, the single biggest repository of natural life that takes carbon out of the air, that does the thing we need more of is the amazon. it's home to at least 10% of the world's entire biodiversity, and we need it. at no time did we need the amazon more than the period now where we need to be taking carbon out of the air. and instead, what you're watching on your screen is the machinery for taking carbon out of the air being turned into carbon and put into the air. it's as bad as it gets. the important thing to
understand and the reason we're showing you these images, the ones you're seeing on your screen is this is not just some natural thing that happened. it is in many ways the product of politics, of right wing politics, of a right wing movement dedicated to climate denial has meant climate destruction, just like the right wing movement we have in the u.s. in brazil, a man who critics have called a fascist. a man who's joked about he would not deep to rape an opposition member of parliament because she's not worthy of it. he's thrown around anti-gay slurs. who's threatened the revocation of civil liberties and who ran explicitly on a platform of no more of these nam bee pam bee environmental regulations. open up the amazon, let the industry of brazil get into the amazon and start culting. this is what he had to say about brazil's part of the amazon. brazil is a virgin that every pervert from the outside wants, implying brazilians should cut
it down before others have the chance. he actually fired the head of the agency that tracks deforestation, he disputed the data from that agency that shows the rise in deforestation. he has delivered on his promise. he has opened up the amazon. the images you see on your screen are partly a result of that. huge swaths of the amazon are on fire, all of which is to say what is producing the fires is politics, producing the climate crisis is politics and what will produce the solution to the climate crisis is also politics, which brings us to our own country. we are our own right wing movement of denialism that has done everything in its power to make the climate crisis worse. only one of the two parties in this country has committed and now with increasing boldness and vision and urgency to solutions on the scale necessary to reverse the crisis.
yesterday climate focus candidate jay inslee dropped out of the presidential race, although in some ways he was the victim of his own success. he put out a plan which green peace has called the gold standard for dealing with climate emergency, partly because of his presence, many of the other democratic candidates for president have produced ambitious climate plans like beto o'rourke and senator elizabeth warren and joe biden. today senator bernie sanders unveiled a plan of his own, a green new deal. a $16 trillion plan on how to fight climate change. joining me now senator bernie sanders independent from vermont. it's a long plan. i read it today, and the biggest thing i was taken by is the sheer ambition. it is enormous in scope for what it imagines? >> well, chris, this is the way i look at it. we can approach climate change the way donald trump does. call it a hoax, deny the
reality, and that is obviously an incredible danger for the planet, or you could say, well, you know, climate change is real but we can't do all that much. we can't really disrupt the economy. we can't do that. we can't do that, we've got to look at it from a political point of view, or the third approach, which i have tried to take here, is to say, look, the scientific community tells us we have a handful of years in which we must act boldly and transformatively to move away from fossil fuel and energy sufficiency and sustainable energy or else the planet we will be leaving for our children and future generations will be a plan et that is increasingly unhealthy and uninhabitable. man, i just came from paradise, california, and you remember the tragedy there. >> i do. >> unbelievable. unbelievable. looked like a bomb was dropped in that community, so if we believe, chris, that climate change is real, if we believe what the scientists are telling
us, we have got to be bold. we have got to be comprehensive. we have got to be aggressive. that is what that plan is about. >> one part of the plan that i find fascinating, which is about how power is generated and distributed. you talk about there's public -- there's some federal public administration in this country based on the tennessee valley authority and others and basically you propose essentially a federal takeover of the whole thing, that essentially a tennessee valley authority extension for the whole country, am i understanding that correctly. >> you're in the ballpark, that's right. the tva has done a lot of good work. it produces electricity from hydro power and other sources. we need to have an aggressive federal government saying we are going to produce a massive amount of electricity from solar and from wind and from other sustainable energies, and we will sell it out, and by the
way, we're going to make money doing that. but you can't nibble around the edges anymore. we need to transform our energy system. that means a massive increase in sustainable energy. >> so i think people that watch the program know that i am not a deficit hawk. you know, america's a very wealthy country. it can afford a lot of big investments, but this is really large. the amount of money we're talking about, you're talking about in the plan replacing every old diesel school bus, replacing old mobile homes in the country, right. it's big and comprehensive. when people say to you, how do you pay for it? is this a thing that america can afford? you say what? >> well, the first thing is we cannot not afford it. we are playing for the future of the planet. we have got to do it. and second of all, we pay for this in a number of ways. one of the ways we pay for it is a massive federal project that produces sustainable energy is going to make money as well. further more we do away with the tax breaks and the subsidies that the fossil fuel industry now receives, which in fact is massive.
thirdly we create 20 million new jobs as we transform our energy system and improve our infrastructure and those are going to be good paying union jobs, and those folks are going to be paying taxes, fourthly for a variety of reasons, we've got to cut military spending. fifthly we do away with trump's huge tax breaks for the rich and sixth we have a progressive tax system which demands large corporations and the rich start paying their fair share of the taxes. >> at first i thought this was implausible, but the plan when you're talking about replacing every diesel school bus in america, which is what the plan calls for, that's a lot of jobs. what is your -- to me there's a mismatch between the promises and the reality that makes these things hard, right? there are coal workers right now out of work in wyoming. there are coal workers who are stationed in harlan county, kentucky not getting their pensions not letting that coal move because they've been screwed time and time again. what do you say to them when they say why should i believe that the promise you're making can be a reality? >> well, one of the things that we do, and we put many, many
tens of billions of dollars into a just transition program, which says to those coal miners and the men and women who work on the oil rigs, you are not our enemy. you're working to feed your family. i am programs the strongest pro union, pro worker member of the congress. those people are not my enemy. what is my enemy is climate change, and we have a very, very strong approach to make sure that those workers get trained for new jobs. they get the health care that they need. they get the educational opportunities that they need, but the bottom line of all of this, chris, is either we believe in what the scientists are telling us or we do not. if we believe what they are telling us, we've got fewer than 12 years in order to transform our energy system or else there will be irreparable damage done to our country and the planet. well, if that the reality, and i happen to believe the scientists, then we have to act comprehensively. this is not just an american issue. what is so very dangerous about
trump is that we need a president who is leading the world. that's hard. that is really hard. if you think what i'm talking about for our country is difficult, try getting russia and china and india, all these other countries involved, and what i have been saying and i know that this is not going to happen tomorrow, but maybe just maybe in the midst of this crisis, maybe the countries of the world wake up and understand that instead of spending a trillion and a half dollars every year on weapons of destruction designed to kill each other, maybe we pool our resources together and we combat our common enemy which is climate change. >> of course the u.s. is somewhere around 30% of the world's emissions, even if we do everything right and china and india and as africa develops, right, and it begins emitting, we're all in a lot of trouble. i want to ask this question. you gave a speech once about the
rise of sort of the far populist right across the world, and i think brazil is an example of that. do you see a connection essentially with that movement and the climate battle like we are seeing play out in brazil? >> i do. i mean, i think you have right wing extremists, who are appealing to working class people and say see all these wealthy environmentalists? they don't care about you. they're talking about some nonsense which isn't applicable to your lives, and that is why we need a movement that brings working class people into it and says we are on your side, and your kids, and your grandchildren are going to need a planet which is habitable and healthy. you are not going to be punished for what the fossil fuel industry is doing. we're going to protect your jobs. >> all right, senator bernie sanders, a really interesting plan. it is really ambitious in scope and definitely check it out. it's on the website. thank you very much. >> thank you, chris. for more on what is actually happening in the amazon, i'm
joined by mora a finance campaign director for amazon watch, which is an advocacy group trying to protect the rain forest. let me start with just the sort of top line, a group that works to protect the amazon. why are these fires happening? why is it so bad this year? >> well, first of all, thanks so much for having me and for bringing this really important issue to your audience's attention. these fires actually appear to have been started by farmers who farm in areas of previously deforested amazon. they apparently started these fires both to clear more land for agra business but also as a sort of homage or a signal that they were hearing his calls to open the amazon for business. they were hearing his calls that the amazon should be raised for profit making, and so they were answering his calls. >> so this -- i mean, the year-over-year data is crazy on this. this is a huge increase
year-over-year. so what you're saying is like this is -- this is the policy playing out. these are people taking a signal from bolcinaro. there's evidence of that? >> yeah, so several brazilian news outlets have went to this region and interviewed these farmers, and they're quoted as saying that they did this to clear land for agra business and inspired by bolcinaro and his rhetoric. >> what are the stakes for folks that are watching this? i think we all grew up hearing about the amazon and deforestation. the time i was in the amazon and i saw a part that was deforested i was like sort of blown away. >> yeah. >> what is -- how important is this from a climate perspective? >> this is extremely important from a climate perspective. you referenced in your opening remarks the ways that rain forests and really dense tropical rain forests like the amazon served two climate protection purposes. they both absorb carbon when they are standing and so the
destruction whether by logging or fires eliminates that possibility of their carbon absorption, but also when they're cut down or burned, they release more carbon dioxide, all that carbon dioxide they've been storing, they release that into the atmosphere. it's a double whammy. >> there's been a 70 some percent increase in the same period in 2018, almost 40,000 fires. two things from the president of brazil, bolcinaro has blamed the ngos, he hasn't specified which, but i imagine amazon watch is one of them for what's happening. do you have a response to that? >> as i said earlier, there's clear admission from supporters that they're the ones that started this ask i think it's really indicative of the kind of rhetoric that bolcinaro uses. he himself has from day one of his campaign made clear he wants to see the amazon burn down or torn down and opened up for mining and agra business. it's really just preposterous,
and as you mentioned earlier, reminiscent of the kind of flip-flopping that president trump uses to hide the ridiculous remarks that he makes. >> are there things -- final question, are there things the international community or people that are watching this right now and feeling that feeling of sort of like infinite sorrow can do? >> yes, definitely, and i really recognize that feeling of impotent. i'm feeling it myself. our office has been flooded with phone calls and e-mails of people wanting to help and wanting to jump in airplanes and help put out the fires. and that's a really admirable and understandable feeling. unfortunately those of us here in the states and around the world, regular citizens or small ngos we can't hop in a plane and put out a fire. that's the responsibility of the brazilian government, but there is a lot we can do.
the bolsonaro administration right now has more or less carte blanche to continue with these policies of rolling back protections on the rain forest because agrabusiness industry and its financiers are continuing to buy and continuing to invest in amazon mining. amazon lodge did research that traced the financial flows into the agrabusiness industry in the brazilian amazon, and we need to be holding those companies accountable. >> amazon watch is the organization where you can find that information. thank you very much. thank you. >> next in the democratic field about to be cut in half? what we know about the candidate movement as the third debate approaches in two minutes. they don't have time to go to the post office they have businesses to grow customers to care for lives to get home to they use stamps.com print discounted postage for any letter
the cut, although there are a whole bunch approaching the threshold. probably not coincidentally in just the last week two candidates were probably not going to make the debate stage have dropped out of the race entirely. last night washington governor jay inslee told my colleague rachel maddow he's officially out of the race. today he announced he's seeking a third term as the governor of washington. john hickenlooper who dropped out of the presidential race last week announced a senate run. >> i've always said washington was a lousy place for a guy like me who wants to get things done, but this is no time to walk away from the table. i know changing washington is hard, but i want to give it a shot. i'm john hickenlooper, candidate for the united states senate. that's a very good shot, although i wonder how many takes it took. hickenlooper's entrance is bad news for cory gardner who is polling ten points bind a
generic democrat right now. it leaves just 22 candidates vying for the democratic nomination. the question though is how long is the field going to stay that big. to answer that question i'm joined by paula ramos, and staff writer at the new yorker, professor of journalism. i think the hickenlooper news is significant because many people have been jumping up and down and pointing at races to some of the candidates being like maybe you should do this and that's what he did. >> yes, it is significant. it is narrowing down, but i also think there's something else that is happening, which is that people are widening and redefining what electability means. it used to be the case that we thought that electability meant that it was just about beating
donald trump. now it's turning into something else, which is why the race will continue to be this massive fight because it's about who can win and who can beat donald trump the right way, which is what i think we're going to see in the debates, the right way meaning who is centering communities at the center of the conversation. >> what you're saying is you think -- that to me implies that there's a thinking among democrats that more than one candidate can beat donald trump. you think that's the case? >> i do think -- >> you think that's what democrats think? >> i think that's what people think. i know what people are thinking in the streets. i know how young people are thinking, and the thinking is that we want someone that not only uses latinas and black people and women as pawns to beat donald trump, we want someone that uses us and that inserts us in the future of this country, and that's the difference, and that's why i think as you just talked to senator sanders, he is talking about people of color when he
rolls out climate change. >> it's striking to me that in the number of candidates we still have 22, there's going to be this sharp dropoff as we go into this third debate. i think that like there's a little bit of electability, the proof is in the pudding, right, where it's hard to make the argument you can beat donald trump if you've not gotten traction in the race so far. >> i mean, think about this. we have this point of like replication point where people are like oh, we have, i'm the moderate, i can beat donald trump because i'm a moderate. well, i'm more moderate than that moderate. people trying to out-moderate. >> john hickenlooper, bullock. >> exactly, the kind of insert last name here, and it becomes almost like a elevator music version of american politics. and none of that has caught on. i also think if you look back at 2016, there's a reason why bernie sanders did so much better than martin o'malley did,
you know, when there was a clear distinct difference in what bernie sanders was saying versus what hillary clinton was saying, and people understood that there were these distinctions. in a field of 24 people, now 22 people, you're necessarily going to have some kinds of replication. and that's also why there are so many people in that 1%, 2%, kind of spread out. >> and we're talking about 2016, i'm talking and i think immediately about the less than 50% of latinas that did not vote, right when they were given the options, when they were given two ideas -- >> you're saying the general election. >> still these are people in nevada, in texas, in california. these are the real voters. when we gave them that option, 50% of them did not show up. so that's why we need to -- >> passion, and enthusiasm. >> a genuine vision where they see themselves not just as immigrants but as part of all these candidates plans. that is very important that we're underestimating. >> the biden campaign put out their big electability argument,
and it is striking. really it is the case right now that there are three people that are polling at above 15%. joe biden in the lead, and usually sometimes sanders in second and warren close, and then there's everyone else and there's harris and buttigieg and they have respectable numbers. then you're down to 2%. there's a huge field at the bottom, which i think is going to get sheered off. joe biden is like i'm joe biden, i worked with barack obama, you know who i am, and then there's sanders and warren who are quite distinct in their pitches. i don't think the rest at the bottom are going to last long. >> no, they won't. it's going to winnow. >> i'll tell you this. here's the thing that scares me. we had this conversation four years ago and when we talked about hillary clinton, and she had a -- she was a known quantity, you either loved her or hated her, and as it turned out there were people who -- a lot more people who hated her than maybe we even thought, and
so when we look at joe biden, he has that long track record, and when you look at politicians who have that much time in washington, it is easy for them to get whip sawed by changing value s. we were having a conversation a few weeks ago about buffing. buffing, and you're having to explain that, so i worry that in a general election there can be that kind of whiplash where you're -- >> i will say this about joe biden, i mean, it's early but like there's been a lot of news cycles that maybe the biden team isn't psyched about that have been critical, and joe biden's still the top of the field. like there is a constituency for joe biden that is powerful and strong, and i think what they see and what they have leaned into in a fascinating way is like i'm the obama vice president, and i have a long record and like you know who i am, and that's -- and i think when you talk about like a clarity of message, they now have a very clear message, i think. like, it is a distinguished and clear message that they have. >> i think that becomes trickier, though in a smaller field, it's easy to distinguish yourself against him. >> that's why to me the
september debates where we're sort of maybe down to everyone on the same stage is the end of act one. we're starting to get into act two where you start to have these conversations that are more than. the lingering questions in the death of jeffrey epstein, who knew what after this. - in the last year, there were three victims
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into a trust which almost certainly will make it harder for his victims to sue for damages. we also know the department of justice was in charge of keeping him alive, and the man in charge of that, attorney general william barr said he's angry about epstein's death. he just removed the acting director of the federal bureau of prisons. both the doj and the fbi are investigating epstein's death, but there are jail workers who are refusing to cooperate with those investigators. the "new york times" reports that federal prosecutors have subpoenaed roughly 15 employees of the metropolitan correctional center, and according to "the washington post" there were eight jail officials who knew epstein was not to be left alone in his cell. what do we know about what directions were given and who knew what about the protection of jeffrey epstein inside that facility? >> well what we're told is, you know, there's a key moment in this process where jeffrey epstein is taken off suicide watch. this happens on july 29th. what we're told about that process is that it was very
clear inside the mcc, not just among lower level officials but their supervisors as well, that there were two things that were supposed to happen once he was taken off suicide watch. one that he would be checked on every half hour. that's a standard in the unit he was placed in, and two, that there was an understanding that he would have a cell mate at all times, and the reason for that is you want another pair of eyes on him who could holler out if something's going wrong. >> right. >> that's what was supposed to happen, and part of the concern and frustration by the attorney general and others here is everyone seems to have understood what was supposed to happen and then it just did not happen. >> do we know why it didn't happen? >> well, that's a great question. so, you know, among the union officials, the union officials have argued that, you know, they are so short staffed and so overworked that something like this was bound to happen, not necessarily with jeffrey epstein in particular, but something like this was always bound to happen in that place at this
time with so few people working. frankly, there are folks in the justice department who think that's a poor excuse for letting what's arguably the most high profile defendant in your entire system kill himself, but that is part of the conversation that's going on, and look, someone who talked to me for this story said you can't underestimate the degree of incompetence and far reaching incompetence that may have been involved in this. >> it's interesting you say that because i think there's reasons when this news turned up, right, and i'm sure you've seen people reacting in this way. obviously because of the man's connections because of some sense that perhaps he knew a lot of things about other famous people that he had spent time with, right. >> absolutely. >> that this -- that there's something fishy here. >> sure. >> i guess, what is your reporting indicate about the level of just basic competence in that fail? i've talked to lawyers who said similar to what you said, don't overestimate how well run that facility was.
>> for example, two years ago that jail just let a guy out who had years left to serve skprs that inmate told them, no, no, i'm not supposed to be let out yet. and they said get out of here, you've got to go. >> really? >> oh, yeah, that was in 2017. so he ended up coming back himself. he gets out, he walks around manhattan basically for six hours. calls his lawyer, and his lawyer says you've got to go back. so he returns himself to the jail. so there are issues and problems at this jail no question. i think the secondary question, though, for the investigators and everyone else is, look, this isn't just some, you know, bank robber. this is jeffrey epstein. everyone knows the justice department has, you know, a troubled -- lets say troubled history with this particular defendant, of all the people to not keep an eye on he's the guy. so i think there's layers of going -- of looking a the this and understanding what went wrong, but i do think people who know the system, people who know that jail and people who know the bureau of prisons, frankly
are not surprised that there could be this degree of incompetence. >> the lawyers i've talked to with clients there had that reaction, they were not as surprised as everyone else that this happened. thank you for your great reporting. is donald trump to be the first sitting president to face a primary challenge from his own party? plus, tonight's thing one, thing two starts next. it's time for the biggest sale of the year on the
thing 1 tonight, trivia time, can you name the current white house press secretary? it's hard because she's never held a single press briefing, despite being on the job for nearly two months so really haven't had the opportunity to get to know anything about stephanie grisham, until the "new york times" came out with this profile, as the times describes it grisham's career history contains red flags. she lost a public relations job with aaa in arizona after being accused of cheating on expense reports. lost a subsequent job with an advertising agency following an act of plagiarism. has been arrested twice for driving under the influence, the second while working on the trump campaign in 2015. you might understand why the press secretary might be reticent to do too much press. the question is is that better or worse than what we had before? >> this was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration period, both in person and around the globe.
>> you want overwhelmingly with 306 electoral votes. you had a -- you know, somebody as despicable as hitler who didn't even sink to using chemical weapons. >> the president in no way, form, or fashion has ever promoted or encouraged violence. . president trump in his first year and a half has already tripled what president obama did in eight years, not only did he do that for african-americans, but for hispanics, 1.7 million more hispanics are working now. the separation of families is the product of the same legal loopholes that democrats refuse to close and these laws are the same that have been on the books for over a decade. we haven't had a chance to see the new press secretary lie to us like that. they both have new jobs. that's thing 2 in 60 seconds. >> okay.
>> okay. more trivia. can you name the place that just decided to hire sarah huckabee sanders to be a contributor despite the mountain of lies that is her resume? you know, it's fox news. sanders has been hired to do political commentary, will make her debut on trump tv and friends, basically doing exactly for trump tv what she did for trump from the podium, only paychecks will come from a different place, probably. wait, there's more, sarah sanders predecessor sean spicer has an exciting new gig. he's going on "dancing with the stars" where he'll try to fox trot his reputation out of the gutter. spicer is no stranger to entertainment gigs. you may recall him as the white house easter bunny. the reality show guy who fired him from the white house thinks spicer will do a great job. >> this is all i got right now, a good old fox step. >> what do you do? >> go back, over, back. >> is this the fox trot?
>> no. >> isn't it the same thing? >> oh, no. >> i know, right? >> if that's the dance, i'm going to win that one. >> okay. so what are we doing here? >> yeah, okay, can you dip me? there you go. the first survivor of alzheimer's disease is out there. and the alzheimer's association is going to make it happen. but we won't get there without you. join the fight with the alzheimer's association.
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i said before on the show the way that i think about the president's mind is that it's like a stream that little bit of refuse get thrown or dropped into. most of the time when there's some idea, you can be sure it didn't o'original nate with the president. when he tweets something nuts there's a good chance he saw it on fox and friends. where did that greenland idea come from? and now we have a solution to that mystery. it turns out it was a little candy wrapper, tom cotton. wednesday cotton said quote,
you're joking but i can reveal to you several months ago i met with the danish ambassador and proposed they sell greenland to us. cotton believes he may have caught the ambassador a little offguard by raising the idea. i think that's probably true. now that tom cotton has taken this garbage idea and thrown it into the president's brain and the president turned around and got mad and the whole thing is now an international incident, someone has to get back to the work of repairing the torn relationship between the u.s. and denmark. hopefully there's someone in the position of ambassador with the tenacity and deft touch, someone with years of diplomatic experience, meet the u.s. ambassador to denmark. >> what exactly are you anyway? >> that's none of your business. >> you're right. you're absolutely right. >> i am the princess, ella zaina.
i'm on my way to marry a very important man. >> the princess ella zaina is played by ambassador carla stans. she stars in the 1988 classic movie death stalker and the warriors from hell before she became an international diplomat, she had what could generously be called a movie career. i should say and be very clear here that the underqualified major party donor ambassador is a long-standing and embarrassing bipartisan tradition. today the daily beast did a profile of the ambassador and thanks to their reporting, we know that after a brief career as an actress she went on to be a chiropractor. the report reveals she has combined an active social media account with an active imagination re-tweeting conspiracy theories and wild ideas. among them are tweets about how humans are not responsible for
global warming because humanity lived through the medieval warm period. she tweeted kevin ssorbo calling for prager university to be taught in all schools. it's not accredited. it's the name for a bunch of far right videos. while carla sands is our reputation to a country to which we just canceled a state visit, at least she is not our ambassador to the united nations. >> do yourself believe in climate change? >> i believe there are sciences on both sides that are accurate. >> you feel that there's science that proves that there is -- man is not causing climate change? >> i think that both sides have, you know, they have their own results from their studies and i appreciate and i respect both sides of the science. president donald trump's approval rating among from the couldn't be prouders
to the wait did we just win-ners. everyone uses their phone differently. that's why xfinity mobile let's you design your own data. now you can share it between lines. mix with unlimited, and switch it up at anytime so you only pay for what you need. it's a different kind of wireless network designed to save you money. save up to $400 a year on your wireless bill. plus get $250 back when you buy a new samsung note. click, call or visit a store today. president donald trump's approval rating among republicans sits between 80% or 90%. trump has driven people away from identifying as republicans. here is the problem. there are a number of self-described conservatives who
do not like donald trump but most don't really have any political base or power. that's the problem facing anyone who wants to mount a primary challenge to the president in the gop. interestingly enough, there are people who want to give it a shot. william weld is in. he is running. mark sandford and joe walsh appears close to joining the race. scaramucci says he will take the president on. ultimately, it may be on donald trump's psyche. he is going to trounce any republican who challenges him. there's reporting that suggests his team is obsessed with staving off primary challenges. here to discuss is linda chavez
here to discuss is linda chavez and ben howe, who is an author about evangelicals and trump. linda, i don't know. i'm skeptical. i'm seeing this. it looks like some will get in. is there anything here? >> well, i mean, if you look back at what happened to president george herbert walker bush in 1992, he did get challenged by pat buchanan. i think buchanan's challenge was stronger than any of the people we are talking about against trump did harm him. it set him up for ultimately failure in the general election. i think that's what this is about. none of these guys that we're talking about likely to defeat donald trump unless trump goes even farther off the rails than we have seen him so far.
being able to damage him, being able to come at him as walsh might, from the right, could have some impact and might dampen the support. after all, a lot of this is about getting people to the polls in the general election. if you diminish support during the primaries, that's going to make it harder for trump come the general election. >> ben, your new book is about a devil's bargain, i suppose, between a lot of conservative ee van gel cals. is there any undoing of that? is that the truth against which any of the challenges would play out? >> i think that in the 2020 election, the thing we have to remember, we look back at 2016 and it was -- we look at it like it was the big dumpster fire year. it was insane. there was so much unhinged
rhetoric coming out of trump and his supporters. everybody was at each other's throats. they thought he would lose, even people who supported him. now we're going into 2020. he has two supreme court justices that he has been able to get on the court. the promised land of more conservative justices on the supreme court is around the corner if he can win re-election. now they know he can win. they're going to come out in my opinion, evangelicals will come out in record numbers. >> do you think the point about the president's psyche -- i think this is an interesting story if only because i think it will obsess donald trump. if you have, for instance, three contenders, someone might give them a platform for debate. i can only imagine what it will do to the president to watch a primary debate for the republican party. >> well, i doubt that donald
trump would participate in such a debate. you remember he didn't participate in all of the debates last time. i think ben is right about the vangelical support. he cannot win the general election solely with his base. that's the important point. it's some of those people you might peel off who voted last time who thought, well, he sounds a little crazy but he is not going to govern that crazy. with all that he has done and particularly the effects of the trade war and possibly coming up to a mild recession again, something george bush faced in '92, could harm him. >> ben, there's to me -- it's a question about making a statement. i think it's very clear that governor weld of massachusetts, who is a throwback republican to a kind of sort of northeastern waspy, almost -- almost liberal sensibility. he is making a statement about what the republican party is and what conservative values are. that seems a losing cause insofar as trumpism is conservatism right now.
>> this is the thing. i don't think that the statements that they're trying to make are necessarily about this coming election. perhaps they would like to prevent him from winning. perhaps they would like to harm him. i think there are a lot of people that would like to start setting up life after trump. there were a lot of big figures in the gop that we don't hear from much anymore that don't seem like they're as insanely devoted to trump, like scott walker who i don't see as much as i used to. i feel like if he wins re-election or if he doesn't, there's a move towards life after trump. this is kind of the opening salvo or freshman team. >> i think that's right. i think that it is possible to beat trump. i think there are people like me
who -- i have not voted for a democrat for president since lyndon johnson. if you can believe that. so there are people like me who have been republicans for a long time but who may pull the lever this time for a democrat just in order to keep this president, who i believe is a real threat, an existential threat to democracy, out of the white house. >> thank you both for being with me. tonight the president set to head to france for the g-7 where the white house says he will push for russia to regain its seat at the table. but an important ally says not so fast. new polling shows the drum beat of crisis and outrage has kept the president's poll numbers remarkably consistent and consistently low for this period in his presidency. and our live interview here tonight with new jersey governor