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tv   MSNBC Live  MSNBC  September 8, 2019 3:00am-4:00am PDT

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he still is the one. >> that's all for now. i'm natalie morales. thanks for watching. good morning. i'm jo ling kent in new york at msnbc world headquarters. it's 6:00 in the east, 3:00 out west. here's what's happening right now. a secret meeting canceled. the president announcing a major foreign policy decision in a tweet. the implications ahead. decimation in the bahamas. the search for victims and the rush to help 70,000 people who are now homeless. it's total destruction. >> smell of death. a lot of death. it's badment it's very background. >> the life that we lived was bad enough. but that life that we're going to live is inhuman. in the u.s., what's being done to save residents in the
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bahamas and along the north carolina coast. the airports are responding to a report about a military layover at the president's scotland's golf resort. plus, a new poland new insight about the democrat closing the gap and had the trump camp worried the most. we're starting with breaking news this morning. president trump calling off secret talks with the taliban in a tweet late saturday. that secret meeting was slated to take place today at camp david. nbc's mike viqueira has been following the developments for us. this was a pretty surprising announcement, especially with the administration recently saying it was nearing a peace agreement, right? >> right. it was going to be a surprise on so many levels, jo. everybody expected this announcement coming soon. but to have the taliban today secretly coming to camp david three days before the 9/11 anniversary and nobody needs to be reminded that they harbored osama bin laden and was in afghanistan when they ruled that
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country. only to be called off by the president announcing it in that series of three tweets late last night. citing the fact that there was an attack in kabul late thursday that killed 12 people, including a u.s. serviceman. the president writing in the second of that series of tweets, what kind of people would kill so many in order to seemingly strengthen their bargaining position? so the president calling it off. taking a lot of people by surprise. the afghan president himself was to be on the premises. but from what we can gather from the president's tweets and elsewhere, he was not going to be negotiating directly with the talib taliban. jo, the negotiations have been going on for quite some time between the u.s. and taliban. principally in qatar. they were said to be close to an agreement. mike pompeo was due to make the rounds on all the sunday talk shows today. there was republican opposition, not only from congress, from
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normally stalwart allies of the president, like cheney and -- his own national security adviser, john bolton said to be frozen out of the talks because he opposed what the president was doing. there was going to be a partial drawdown leading to direct talks between the afghan president and the taliban. jo? >> what does this mean for our service members in afghanistan? they continue to lose their lives, sustain injuries on the job there. what does this mean for the u.s. mill tear i? >> the longest war in american history. american servicemen and women in danger are. as a matter of fact, as we just said, one killed last thursday. the taliban stepping up their attacks. there are 12,000 u.s. service people still in afghanistan and the taliban itself facing a threat from a rival terrorist group, isis, now getting a foothold within afghanistan and
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carrying out its on terrorist attacks in kabul and elsewhere in afghanistan. the situation unstable. the u.s. side had been asking the taliban to guarantee that no outside groups would be granted safe harbor within that country. that was said to be a snag in the negotiations, last-minute snag. now the secret talks that the president said were to happen today, nearby here in maryland at camp david are off. jo? >> mike, i wonder what this means for the u.s. allies and their strategy in the region and what happens going forward. >> another great question. in that attack we've been talking about where the u.s. military personnel was killed last thursday, there was romanian military personnel also killed. this is near the u.s. embassy in kabul. i've been there. it's high security all around, you can't go anywhere without a heavily armed armada and motorcade. so the security situation, if anybody needs to be reminded, still very tense in kabul. obviously, after 18 years.
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american service people have been helped in this mission, inherent resolve in afghanistan for years. european allies and military personnel have been there right alongside americans for quite some time. as a matter of fact, when the president snubbed denmark by not going on that scheduled trip to visit there, that state visit, one of the reasons people were upset is because denmark has been a stalwart ally of the united states in afghanistan, as have many european allies. >> mike, thank you very much for that perspective. we appreciate it. also today, the u.s. air force is confirming seven crew members did stay at president trump's turnberry resort in scotland in march. they're discussing whether military spending helped prop up that property. the air force saying no, the layover was, quote, not unusual and staying at trump's resort was the closest available and least expensive accommodation to the airfield within the crew's allowable hotel rates.
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the air force is talking about a struggling airport seen as crucial to the president's golf course. the military has spent $11 million in refueling costs at that airport since october of 2017. as to why the air force did not refuel at a cheaper base nearby, the air force said, quote, we schedule the stopover points based on optimized leg distance and economy. and fuel availability. mi meanwhile, a representative from the trump administration saying that u.s. military personnel had stayed at trump's scottish resort a few times a year at a discounted rate and profits are being paid back to the federal government. this raising major red flags for top democrats investigating the president. >> the president has decided to make -- convert the white house into an atm machine. i hope that there is no
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cooperation between donald trump and the military because if that is the case, then donald trump has achieved something i don't think any president in our history has achieved or even attempted to achieve and that is to corrupt the military. >> also new today, the president refusing to let go of the so-called sharpie controversy and hurricane dorian. tweeting about it three more times yesterday. the "washington post" reports a top official within the national oceanic and atmospheric administration or noaa warned staffers not to contradict the president back when that happened. a noaa meteorologist is telling the "washington post," quote, this is the first time i felt pressure from above not to say what truly is the forecast. let's start this discussion with our reporter with yahoo news. >> good morning. >> good morning. how are you? >> i'm doing well. how significant is it that the air force is confirming a
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layover, the president's -- in scotland what are the implications? >> the implications are they are on to something. literally, this is something for them to go with, run with. they've been going -- abuse of power, corruption. an amazing -- this is an airport, a resort stay but this is millions and millions of taxpayer dollars. if they can go after something as small, seemingly small as where are our troops and servicemen sleeping and staying when traveling abroad, this can lead to a lot more in their investigations. >> "the new york times" is also reporting, quote, for a lobbyist looking for a change in federal regulation for for a republican candidate seeking donors, patronizing the president's properties is a routine part of doing business in the trump era and for some of the president's supporters, it's a way of giving thanks. is this an overstatement? we've seen ceos, lobbyists, all
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kinds of different people stay at various properties, even here in the u.s. >> yes. this may also counter something presidents can't do, which is benefit while in the office. especially folks who may influence them in a particular way. this is a part of the president who has been pushing back against releasing his business information, his documents, even just taking clear separation from his businesses. this only just adds to the conflicts of interest that are coming up, especially while he's been under investigation, his administration has been under investigation for quite some time now. >> we've also been talking about the "washington post" report this morning, that staffers with noaa, the government weather agency, of course, were told not to contradict the president over hurricane dorian. one of things we train on is dispel rumors and ultimately that's what was occurring. cade i can't, what is this story
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really about? why is it continuing to be an issue for the white house? >> one thing to point out, the president even said yesterday he doesn't want to continue this. yet, he has been refreshing the topic as the week had gone along. i think what the larger context to be worried about here and i think that's on a lot of people's, americans minds, he cannot let go of a mistake like this. if he can use this power to not admit to something that is wrong, inaccurate, what else could he possibly do? i think the larger context we need to look at, this is an administration that has cut advisory committees across the board. almost a third since june. this means that a lot of scientific advisory boards were cut themselves and committees were cut. this leans on the fact that this administration might just be moving away from technical experts and disregarding them especially in a situation as this and also moving them at the same time to try to bolster what they want to put out as truth. >> we're also looking at the
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economy here and u.s. tariffs. reporting a lot about that over the past several months here. the a.p. is reporting that customs data show that imports to u.s. goods to china fell 22% in august. exports from china dropped 16%. kadiy, what does this say about the current state of the economy? we're looking at possible weakening factors going forward, possible indicators of a potential recession here and there's a focus on a hurricane information scandal in what does that say? >> it says so much. one thing to consider is the trade war is deeply affecting rural americans and they're coming back and saying we need help. we need this to end. but at the same time, we're having a president who is pushing back against china and saying that it's the best for americans right now. down the line it doesn't look like that at all. we have americans who aren't able to carry out their businesses. just a couple of weeks ago, him
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threatening to actually stop american businesses from working with china and these are very big issues that will fall down to americans, especially if he's been pushing tariffs on to china and might even come more in the next few months before the holiday season. americans will feel it more and more. just about the president paying attention to what they're saying as opposed to pushing this trade war. we know that the u.s. and china are preparing to have talks, again, in october. but there's no indication that this deadlock is actually going to break open. no concessions have been signaled yet. what will it take, do you think for the u.s. and china to strike a deal, especially with trump facing re-election prospects in 2020? >> it's going to take a lot more open-mindedness on both sides of the board. i think there's a lot that trump isn't correct on when it comes to china being "hardball," being able to push american businesses as much as they can. at the same time, there needs to be flexibility on the american side with the president's administration. there has to be a way to break
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this deadlock. that's only going to be coming to the table with full perspectives in mind. i don't think that's happening right now as we've seen with these conversations being pushed back, becoming more and more intense. we can only hope that within the next couple of months before they need it, there is an agreement that comes before the end of the year that's going to take both sides coming to the table and being flexible. >> we know that, what, $160 billion of stuff is going to be taxed it things don't continue in a different direction on december 15th. we'll be watching for that -- the impact on the economy for that. i also want to talk about congress. they return from recess tomorrow and the office of the house speaker is saying they're going to focus their investigations on first the president's possible violations of the constitution and second, corruption and self-dealing. third, defending the country's democracy from foreign interference. what do you think? how is this going to play out now that we have 134 democrats and one independent supporting
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its impeachment inquiry? >> it's going to be an interesting year. it's just to start off. we're walking in as the house judiciary committee is going to be placing a vote most likely this upcoming week on defining the terms of an investigation into impeachment proceedings for the president. that only says what they're looking at into the next term. that's going to be the probe which is connected to this scottish resort. it's going to be the fact that there might be corruption that we vbt seen or uncovered in the past couple of months. it's going to mean a lot that the dominant -- democratic house to really push forward and make sure that they're going after what is right and what is true. but at the same time, being held to a standard to their locals. to their constituents and making sure that they're not going after the president for the sake of going after him, but really seek to go investigate what's under the hood in the white house. >> we'll see how it all plays out in washington and also across the campaign trail.
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thank you for being here. >> thank you so much for having me, jo. we continue to follow dorian up north past eastern canada. the storm has been downgraded to a post tropical cyclone. it's packing a punch with winds up to 100 miles per hour. the heavy winds are causing a crane to collapse in nova scotia where dorian made landfall on saturday. we're glad to report there are no injuries reported due to that accident. meanwhile, recovery efforts under way in the bahamas with coast guard choppers flying back and forth and relief agency crews setting up camp. usa i.d. brought 47 tons of supplies to the island. last night, over 1100 people were evacuated from the bahamas on a cruise ship and brought to the u.s. as the search continues for the thousands of residents still missing. at least 43 people have died and that number is expected to rise. our nbc's morgan chesky is on
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the ground in nassau. morgan, tell us more about the rescue efforts. >> reporter: relief agencies and rescue efforts have gotten a foothold in the hard hit areas. the federal agency usa i.d. setting up a camp in abaco island and they will use it as a base to go to the devastated neighborhoods where they'll search door to door through the rubble to make sure no one is left behind in the hard hit areas. >> and today i'm announcing $1 million in additional humanitarian assistance to help people in the bahamas affected by hurricane dorian. >> reporter: coast guard choppers, we can hear them flying nonstop. they'll be rescuing the critically injured, people still trapped and bringing them here where they can receive medical care from doctors in nearby hospitals all across nassau. hundreds, if not thousands, are trying to leave the islands of abaco and grand bahama because
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there's simply nothing left behind for them. hundreds of people were taken to florida where they can start the long process of recovery. >> reporter: this morning, the u.n. says at least 70,000 bahamians are homeless as a result of hurricane dorian. i spoke to the minister of health, he says of that number, at least 6,000 are still unaccounted for or considered missing. jo? >> that is a really tough story. morgan chesky, thank you so much. we are also looking at anxiety in trump world ahead of 2020. we'll talk about this headline and how gop operatives are complaining that nothing is stick to go elizabeth warren. de. i am royalty of racing, raise your steins to the king of speed. at verizon, we're building the most powerful 5g experience for america. that's why the nfl chose verizon. because they need the massive capacity of 5g with ultra wideband,
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we have new details this morning. the air force confirming a report by politico that its crew members did stay at the president's luxury resort in scotland after stopping at a local airport to refuel during a routine trip to kuwait. they said the resort was the closest available and least expensive accommodation to the airfield within the crew's allowable hotel rate. the incident raised the possibility that, quote, the military helped keepd trump's resort afloat after it lost millions of dollars in 2017. joining us now is msnbc's legal contributor, katie feng. good morning. >> good morning. the air force says the resort was the cheapest and closest available. politico pointing out there are
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more than two dozen around that airport. is this a claim for house investigators to easily fact check here? >> well, sure. assuming argue u endothey're not stone walled by the department of defense. jo, they've been asking for documents. the investigation has been going on since june of this year. we're just hearing about it after the story was breaking by politico. yeah, you should be able to fact check it. for example, like you just said, trump turnberry lost 4.5 million in revenue in 2017. then it went up by 3 million in 2018. we're able to see things like the line item financials for trump turnberry, you'd be able to see whether or not it took that more than $17 million that's been coming in since october of 2017 to turn around trump turnberry. >> you mentioned that they have not been able to get a single document in this investigation. what can congress do to actually get that?
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is this something that the military, d.o.d., comply with, say, a subpoena? >> normally, you would do the route of the subpoena. it's interestingment we've seen the attempts by congress on several occasions to be able to get documents. they've had the resort to subpoena. brought not only by members of congress but also by states, like maryland for example. they've been citing to the clause saying hey, court system, basically the trump administration has been benefiting. excuse me, trump himself has been benefiting through the trump administration and it's been a financial benefit that's inappropriate and violates the united states constitution. interestingly, there were previously three lawsuits that were brought against trump for this exact concept, two of them actually have been dismissed in federal court. there's only one that currently remains vital and vibrantly going. we'll see whether or not that actually survives because the ruling by the courts has not been supportive of attacks
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against trump and his trump organization and his companies and this administration. >> how much are the grounds for dismissal of those two lawsuits that didn't continue based on the fact that there aren't that many facts available given the opacity of what we're looking at here? >> jo, there's a legal concept that you have to have standing, meaning that you actually have to be a party that has an interest in the litigation because you're looking at potential injury as a result of the actions being taken by the person or the companies that you're suing. in some instances, the federal courts have said that the particular people, like state attorney generals, et cetera, that they don't necessarily have the kind of standing to be able to go against trump and his companies and the administration. but the one remaining lawsuit that does remain is the one that's been brought by the members of congress and that one that still remains alive basically says, look, by benefiting, by trump benefiting by getting this money, it's
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cheating congress's ability to be able to control where money goes and so they've really cited to stay at trump international, that hotel in d.c. when you look at the fact that pence recently stayed in ireland on trump property claiming it was convenient for him, when you look at these united states air force, where it's $17 million. it's frustrating for american taxpayers because you want to ask ourselves, why am i footing the bill for donald trump to make money. they've created things called blind trust. they've basically moved their private financial interests into a realm upon which they don't have any control or they don't know what's going on. we know for a fact that pence himself admitted that trump said to him, why don't you stay at my place? basically, jo, we'll see what happens in court if it makes it there for this particular case. >> katie phang. >> thanks, jo. president trump's canceling
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secret talks with the taliban. how can he trust the group in future talks?
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here's a look at your morning headlines.
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rescuers trying to reach people in the bahamas. at least 43 people have been killed, with the death toll expected to rise significantly. u.s. coast guard helicopters and even several cruise ships have helped evacuate more than a thousand people from the bahamas. new he escalation in iran taking a step back from the nuclear deal. the country says it can enrich uranium to weapons grade material. iran sending a warning to europe saying european countries don't have much time left to offer new turns on that deal. a 29-year-old hiker has died after falling 500 feet off the iconic half -- in yosemite national park. he fell during a -- requiring hikers to cling to cables while they scale that area. it's the latest deadly accident at the summit which has seen nearly 3 mun accidents over the
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last 15 years. breaking news. president trump announcing on twitter he has called off a secret meeting on u.s. soil with the leader of the taliban. he said the meeting had been planned for today at camp david. then he called it off thursday after a u.s. soldier was killed in an attack near the u.s. embassy in afghanistan. he added, if they cannot agree to a cease-fire during the peace talks, they probably don't have the power to negotiate a meaningful agreement anyway. joining me now is bobby ghosh, member of the editorial board at bloomberg. bobby, good morning. mike vicor a reported a meeting three days before the 9/11 anniversary is very significant. can you ix pannexpand on that ws that? >> you have two different pictures that could have emerged from such a meeting. one is a reminder of why the united states is in afghanistan. 9/11, 3,000 americans killed by al qaeda. sheltered by the taliban which
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at the time was running afghanistan. that's why the united states and its allies went to war in that country. but that was 18, coming on 19 years ago. it's one of those forever wars. president trump, we have to remind ourselves, during the election campaign constantly promised that he would bring american soldiers back and a signing ceremony or a photo-op in camp david would be, i think, the first step in his mind to fulfilling that promise. it would be a year ahead of his re-election campaign. it would remind his voters that he's a president trying to keep his word. those are the two conflicting narratives that might have emerged. but now will not. >> oftentimes before these talks there's a lot of diplomacy that happens behind the scenes. do you think the cancellation indicates that at the second or third level beneath a photo
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opportunity just failed? >> under normal white house, normal presidency and this is far from that, under a normal presidency, we would not reach the stage of a president even agreeing to meet in camp david without all the paperwork done and pretty much the only thing that should remain to be done is for a meet and greet in front of cameras and the signing of documents. this is not a normal presidency. there has been an effort by the president's envoy to -- to several months now to make a deal with the taliban. that's constantly running into difficulties. the taliban keep changing their -- we're not clear that they want a deal on the terms that would be acceptable to the united states. the primary sticking point is the taliban refuses to accept the afghan government, elected afghan government as a legitimate government. it's hard to imagine a deal might have been struck without
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the afghan government agreeing to t i think what president trump, if we're reading between the lines is trying to achieve is to have the taliban, figuratively speaking in one room and the afghan president in another and he shuffling between the two and trying to pull off the last-minute, almost impossible task of getting these two sides to agree to something. >> it's a very tall order to do that. as you mentioned, the u.s. started negotiating directly with taliban last year. the group never stopped carrying out bombings at the same time, right? so more than a dozen u.s. soldiers have been killed there this year. why was a cease-fire not achieved? was it not achievable or was it not negotiated properly here? >> well, i think the taliban wants to keep reminding everybody, including afghans, first and foremost, but also that it has the leverage and by continuing these attacks on
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civilian targets and sometimes military targets and killing american soldiers, it is reminding everybody why it is we're negotiating with them rather than trying to defeat them in the battlefield. we've failed at doing that. we're negotiating with them because we want to -- the trump administration wants americans to stop dying in a far away country. the taliban is constantly -- and the president alluded to this in one of his tweets where he talked about the taliban trying to create leverage. and i think, to that extent, he's not wrong. the taliban is trying to remind the americans, the american negotiators, we're the ones inflicting harm to your people, to your soldiers. we'll keep doing that until such time as a deal. that's the message from the taliban. >> bobby, one last question for you. do you think there's a possibility that talks return to the table and it becomes a possibility again? >> well, the question is, we have not yet seen how the taliban is going to respond to
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this. the taliban didn't say they were about to go to camp david. there's no indication that they were excited about that. the taliban might take the view that this is all a sideshow, this is trump being trump. we continue the basic nuts and bolts of the negotiations or they could decide, what is the point if his boss, the president can change his mind about something as important as a meeting in camp david on the turn of a dime? we'll wait. in a few hours, i should think we'll get a response from the taliban and we'll also hear more about the administration's point of view, of course in all the sunday shows. i'm keen to hear what secretary of state pompeo says. >> same here. bobby ghosh, thank you so much. any time. now, more from the bahamas. with temporary relief for over 1100 bahamians evacuated from their island by the grand celebration cruise ship. evacuees were brought to florida
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yesterday nearly one week after hurricane dorian made landfall. megan mcroberts has the details. >> lined up in cars and for blocks, down the streets, bahamians flocking to the grand celebration cruise ship all day and all night. >> i was here from 9:00 this morning. >> knowing that right now this is their best chance of getting out of the misery they've been living through for days. >> it's been exhausting. >> i want to get on the ship today because i was getting away -- i really wanted to get away from home. it's not a happy place right now because everybody is stressed from the storm. >> long weeks after having something as simple as a safe place to sleep. >> i'm not sure where i was going to sleep tonight. >> this is the view from this freeport man's grand bahama home so badly flooded during hurricane dorian he can't live
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there. >> a chance to escape doesn't come without sacrifice. many leaving family behind as others stay back, waiting for their return with more help and more supplies. >> so it's an opportunity to have some of those basic -- and at the same time, trying to assist persons back home. >> and despite all their struggles, there is one thing they say they are all still grateful for. >> i am still alive. thank god. i'm still alive. >> as you can see, very difficult images there. people going through a lot. if you want to help, you're able to help, you can donate through the bahamas red cross website or the salvation army. meanwhile, elizabeth warren served in the polls. it's one reason for rising anxiety and so-called trump world. could she become the president's biggest obstacle to re-election? that's next. >> this is our moment in history. this is our moment to dream big
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raise your steins to the king of speed. in the battle for the white house, criminal justice reform is a major issue on the campaign trail. it's a subject of a town hall with nbc's lester holt tonight at 10:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. one of the issues, why innocent people make false confessions.
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>> would you believe me if i told you i would never ever confess to something i wouldn't do. >> i believe you believe you would do that. that's what everybody says. >> it's not what everybody does. he has researched false confessions for over 30 yearsment he calls confessions the gold standard of criminal evidence. >> legal -- have recognized when you have a confession you're basically going to get a conviction at trial. people assumed confession evidence to be not quite infallible but potent. and close to infallible. >> among the most memorable false confessions, the 1989 central park five case. >> this is my first -- >> teens who after hours of interrogation by police confessed on videotape to the beating and rape of a female jogger. >> what was she -- >> stop. >> when you're in that position in those four walls in that room and you're with seasoned
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detectives poised, celebrated, been working for 10 to 25 years. >> their convictions were vacated in 2002 based on dna evidence and the confession of a previously convicted rapist. the innocence project says 28% of exonerations achieved through dna evidence involve defendants who made false confessions and almost half of them were under 21 years old. >> when you start looking at false confession cases, you're looking at interrogations that last six hours, eight hours, 10, 12, 20 hours. people have a breaking point. >> they kept repeating the same questions over and over again. now, they did wear me down. >> in 1989 jeffrey did he say coe vic was 16 when he was questioned by police about the murder and rape of a classmate, hungry and alone for hours with detectives, he made what he says were false promises of freedom, then he cracked. >> he added if i did as they
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wanted, they would stop what they're doing, i could go home afterwards and made up a story. >> he was convicted and spent 16 years in prison before he was exonerated in 2006 based on a re-examination of dna evidence. >> oh, by the way, the officer, the detective can lie to a defendant? >> in the united states, a detective can legally lie about the evidence to a suspect. >> a 2007 report on the case commissioned by the westchester county, new york, d.a.'s office pointed out that adolescents are at a higher risk for confessing to a crime they did not commit and also called out detectives for selective recording of his statements. his interrogation and confession were not videotaped. >> basic psychology and research suggests that if there is a camera present in the room, detectives will likely dial down the use of certain tactics that
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they know judges and juries won't like when they see it. >> today, he fights for the wrongfully convicted through his foundation and he's on his way to becoming a lawyer. his story, a reminder that not all confessions are what they seem. >> i just wanted to go home. i wanted them to stop. i just wanted to get out of there. >> lester holt will moderate a justice for all town hall on criminal justice reform tonight at 10:00 eastern right here on msnbc. next up, biden believers and why some of his supporters don't think he's the best candidate for the country.
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republican strategist joseph pinion. thank you for being here. >> good morning. >> rashad, we are looking at a 3% race at this point. i mean, how much of an indicator is is this poll? >> the poll is a great indicator but you are looking at a three-person race, possibly a four-person race when it starts to actually roll into votes. the numbers don't tell the full story. while joe biden is at 29%, look at the background of the numbers, 45% of democratic responders are saying they're voting for joe and they support joe because he is the most electable. when it comes to bernie sanders only 14% of democrats say they're supporting him. >> right. >> and believe he is the most electable and only 12% think elizabeth warren is the most ele electable against president trump. >> i wonder, joeself, based off of those numbers that rashad was talking about here, no other candidates saw a significant increase, so how do you rate t how do you take this as a republican? >> look, i still maintain that the greatest threat to a second term for president trump is joe
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biden. i think that's someone who puts pennsylvania back in play, who puts the states that republicans were able to flip, you are talking about wisconsin, you are talking about michigan, you are talking about obviously florida. so you're talking about all these places where i think joe biden is strong. i think also, i mean, realistically you had this last past week with people from the biden campaign off the record leaking that he might not have to win new hampshire or iowa, which to me is ludicrous because i think as we saw in 2008 with hillary clinton that, yes, he might have an overwhelming majority of african-american support in the first majority african-american primary in south carolina but i do believe if he doesn't find a way to get across the finish line first in iowa, similar to hillary clinton in 2008, you will see black voters starting to think that that veil of front runner status starts to go away. >> so they will think twice, look to iowa. iowa always -- or sometimes an indicator, right, for south carolina. i wonder, too, if you look at the numbers here there's actually a 21-point difference between those hong biden has the
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best shot at winning and those hong he would be best for the country. rashad, what do you make of that? >> that's people in opposition to president donald trump. and donald trump basically self-inflicts a lot of the wounds that carry into this voter psychology. it is because they feel that anyone is better than donald trump. that's why they're willing to gamble on a joe biden even though joe biden does not represent fully their ideology. so the background of the numbers tell the full story, they are promoting this idea that anybody but trump and they believe that joe biden given the fact that he's relational to the politics of now, that he's also part of that gateway spectrum of democratic politics that he's probably best fit to win a general election and also gain momentum with independent voters. >> just as the daily beast has a new article out as we talk about elizabeth warren an an option, alternative to biden, trump world anxiety growing over a
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riser elizabeth warren. we have the numbers here. what are you hearing from your fellow republicans? is she the biggest worry right now for trump administration? >> look, i honestly think that democrats would be making a huge mistake if they think that somehow they're going to be able to build a winning coalition behind elizabeth warren. i think what people are not talking about is the fact that you have people who are firmly never trumpers, people who termly do not necessarily think that donald trump is the best person to vote for the second time around who will be first in line at the polls to vote for a second term for president trump if the choice is between donald trump and socialism. i think that in many ways to go with somebody like elizabeth warren is basically doing the work that president trump is struggling to do himself which is to rebuild that fractured coalition that is starting to suffer from a little bit of trump fatigue. >> rashad, i also want to talk about that exact point. in new hampshire yesterday we saw a bunch of candidates out on the campaign trail at the state convention, they're trying to chip away at biden's numbers here and they're warning against
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picking a conventional challenger to trump, and some want to accept forward. bloomberg reported tim ryan is saying biden is declining, in quotes, and doesn't have the energy. he also said, also told me on the air he didn't realize he was speaking to a reporter when he made these comments. he tried to justify and walk around them with me yesterday. how problematic is it for biden when fellow democrats even though it's tim ryan who is very low in the polls are saying these things. >> yeah, this was a mistake for tim ryan and not for joe biden. i know that tim thinks somehow adopting the political narrative of the republican opponent is the way to win a democratic primary. it simply is not. and beyond that while the term gaffe master has been attributed to joe biden during this election cycle, let's remember the number 12,019 that's how many lies and misleading statements president trump has made as of august 2019.
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so while we are talking about the three or four gaffes of joe biden and saying that he's in mental decline because of them, i would prefer a guy who makes gaffes than a guy who lies more than i wash my hands per day. >> i want to ask one last question about the economy to you, joe. you are a small businessperson, you know this well. the economy right now showing a few cracks around the edges, still strong numbers overall. how important is the economy for trump quickly? >> i mean, the economy is the perch upon which donald trump's reelection hopes are perched upon. you are talking about 6 million americans that have jobs today that didn't have jobs when donald trump got elected. i think, again, democrats need to stop trying to pretend that those jobs are imaginary, that the money in people's 401(k)s are imaginary. they need to come up with a strong compelling argument, but if the economy starts to slide i think it will take donald trump with it. >> joseph and rashad, thank you both for being here. >> thank you so much. something has happened for the first time during the trump
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presidency that might greatly jeopardize his hopes for reelection. that is coming up. i am the twisting thundercloud. i am royalty of racing, raise your steins to the king of speed.
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good morning, i'm jo ling kent at msnbc headquarters in new york. it's 7:00 in the east, 4:00 out west. here is what's happening right now. breaking late in a tweet the president calling off a secret meeting with the taliban. it was supposed to happen today. we will tell you why there's a sudden change.

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