and it is an issue that is fundamental. if everybody got the same paid time off and mothers and fathers were treated the same both at the workplace and the home, it would help to solve a lot of the issues that we have that are so fundamental to us not being totally equal. >> and if men had wombs, the entire history would be -- but they don't. you have a beautiful son and beautiful family. we missed you so much. >> i missed you guys. >> come back and have this conversation. >> anytime. we have a lot of politicians coming on and back ground conversations. it is coming together. >> all right. my thanks to you for watching. that does it for our hour. chuck todd starts now.
if it is thursday, did democrats just take a big step towards impeachment? depends on who you ask. and plus the final count loun line oig to another debate night. we'll talk to the campaigns of the top democratic contenders as they get ready to faceoff on woone stage. and is the just at this time department going after his political enemies? why andrew hk contain omccaibe closer to being indicted. in just a few moments, top contenders will be on the same stage for the first time. and that are marquee match-up pitting moderate wing against the progressive wing. and certainly keeps washington
busy. impeachment. this morning while you were probably either sleeping or getting ready for work, house judiciary committee convened for a vote, not a vote that gives the committee much additional legal authority in its efforts to compel the administration to obey their subpoenas, instead it tweaked some rules in a series of a goiongoing investigations. but here is why it is so important. there is confusion about whether this amounts to a full impeachment guess or a watered down version. nadler said call it whatever you want. >> some call this process an impeachment inquiry. some call it an impeachment investigation. there is no legal difference between these terms. and i knno longer care to argue about the nomenclature.
>> here is the thing. nancy pelosi has been reluctant to call it an impeachment investigation. and here is her response when being pressed by reporters about that issue today. >> do you concede that impeachment inquiry into president trump is under way? >> do i concede now you? have you not paid attention to what we've been talking about? >> is this specific language not important? how should the american people understand 46- 46-. >> you are the only ones that -- >> that is not true, ma'am. >> i travel the entire country. come with me sometime and you will hear what the american people are saying. they understand that impeachment is a very divisive measure. but if we a have to go there, w will. but we will follow the facts and we will follow the obstruction that the president is making at
getting the facts and make the decision when we're ready. that is all i'm going to say about this subject. and there is nothing different from one day to the next. we're still on our same path. >> ultimately nadler is saying they don't need to formalize the investigation as was done in the clinton and nixon proceedings. speaker pelosi's action clearly indicates that she is worried about a very real political down side doing it. and pelosi may be right that impeachment is divisive, but there are some democratic lawmakers who think that it is their moral obligation. democratic voters seem to be saying that they would rather focus on issues like health care, guns and the economy. one of the today's events was scheduled for 8:00 in the morning and the other happening tonight at 8:00 p.m. in primetime. joining me now is my colleague.
nancy pelosi was trying not to say that she was against impeachment or for impeachment. and then fine she said look, impeachment is divisive. so basically saying i'm not for impeachment, but not going to say it, damn it. what is what she sounded like. like we're not doing peech impeachment. >> they don't want to do it unless they have to. >> she has made it clear. jerry nadler is trying to make people think that they are. >> what if they do find the smoking gun, if they find something big. p politics are fairly clear. americans don't want this to go on. and donald trump has a-46 i
think the american people will impeach him on the election. but truth of the matter is if you look back at the polling data from nixon, american people didn't want that to it happen either. so there is a conflict where it is in fact their duty to check the president if he is corrupt and out of control. >> her base wants pooemtd. >> only the base though. democrats are more divided. >> and her caucus has reached a tipping pint. so she is wanting to give those people a sense that they are making proog.oint. so she is wanting to give those people a sense that they are making proog. but we are no closer to filing impeachment articles today than we were last week or the week before that. the one thing that it does do, and they have tried to say this, that this will maybe give them new tools. if you remember when bill barr, they wanted to haul bill barr
before the judiciary committee, he bagged out when he fouphe fo that he would have to be questioned by counsel. so no trying say that they will be questioned by lawyers. >> and it feels like -- i talked to one high ranking member in leadership who simply said that we have a lot of good second articles. but not the first article. you need the lead one. need the narrative. and they admit that is the problem. >> and i think at this point they found the worst of able possible worlds. if you want to impeach the president, you have to make the ca
case pun publicly. >> and let me flip it. there is a big push among the base.un publicly. >> and let me flip it. there is a big push among the base.n publicly. >> and let me flip it. there is a big push among the base. publicly. >> and let me flip it. there is a big push among the base.publicly. >> and let me flip it. there is a big push among the base. what if pelosi is more direct and saying look, i get it, but, no. okay? no. if there is -- i'm not closing the door and we're doing this but the answer is no, be clear. as someone said, it is like you are not doing your members a favor. give them the opportunity to be either with you or against you. you are trying to let them have it their own way. >> and i'm actually going to -- this is crazy. but i think that the leader is right on this although it looks messy. because the moment that she comes out on the one side or the other, you alienate someone. so it is messy to stay in the middle, but i have to tell you, she has a whole lot of members in her caucus right now who come
from seats that were pretty republican at one point. >> and we bring up all the people that have come out for impeachment. two in trump districts. that has to be more than two. probably more than five. >> but there is a reason for that. because it puts that in jeopardy. so while it is messy, i do get it. the moment democrats come out for impeachment and those seats have to line up for that, it is politically problematic. >> that makes the case that she should make the decision and tell her members we have an election a year away. the best way to he reelect donald trump is to offer impeachment right now, pass it in the house and run it into a brick wall. >> but boehner was so good at telling husband cauis caucus ex. >> this is there we didn't shut down the government in 2012
because he was able to say you will reelect barack obama if you shut down the government. >> and they did. >> and what happened was mueller was a bust. they were expecting mueller to be conclusive about obstruction and be highly suggestive about collusion. he didn't do either. and they felt like they their hands tied. they have no new information today then they had when mueller testified. so when you talk to them, they say let's wait until we have these new tools and now at the end of the month they are loaning to g-- hoping to get moe information from the pending lawsuits that may give us a window into tpresident trump's
tax returns. >> i know she is worried about the egos of the committee chairs. but it feels like you need a special select committee, one entities. and i'd say john lieu irks you are cha chairing it 37 good luck. and make it one dhitity. because i do feel as if this is the other aspect. >> i like it. but there is in clean pay to do it. they will still be coming after pelosi. and she will have to walk that line regardless. >> and it is too vast. whatever we're talking about when talking about -- >> why they don't have it. i go back to what is your first article of impeachment. they know what numbers two, three, you fou four, five and s. >> and here is the problem that democrats have more broadly, it
is a target rich environment. we have not made one case against trump. we are not just shooting at one target. >> and now the krunks thecorrup narrative. so you are right, it has been all over the place in terms of the argument. >> this is how trump has survived so many inquiries in his professional life and his personal life. >> it is too much. >> too much and the stakes have always felt low even on this. what he has done with the weather national service is an impeachable h impeachable offense. but do we do it over a similar pi? >> certainly things that you can argue that aare impeachable but not worth the trauma. and we don't know the one big thick that he had looks the
effort. >> and let's me ask this. what is your impeachment question for the debate and should there be one? do we care what the ten candidates think about impeachment? >> i think that it is a very important question because the base is very fwrrom us >> if i'll running, the answer is yes. >> i think the question is why.. >> if i'll running, the answer is yes. >> i think the question is why. >> interesting. all right. stick around. coming up, we'll talk to one of the democratic members. and is it biden verse everybody? we're previewing the potential big fight. st weight?"
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. the judiciary committee took the first vote on the issue of impeachment. but what they did not do, they did not give themselves much additional legal authority. they did not schedule the committee's work when it would get the biggest audience. and they did not clear up confusion about their strategy. so what did they do? honestly it depends who you ask. joining me now is jamie raskin. i don't want us to go through it round and round again, but let me ask if the nomenclature doesn't matter, then why not open the formal inquiry? >> there is no such thing as a formal inquiry. so we are in an impeachment investigation. there is no ambiguity left.
if anything, the confusion is on the are not sirepublican side. and all really turns 00 what comes out in the investigations. and they are not about congressional process.o00 what comes out in the investigations. and they are not about congressional process.n00 what comes out in the investigations. and they are not about congressional process. what comes out in the investigations. and they are not about congressional process. what comes out in the investigations. and they are not about congressional process. >> you have heard nancy pelosi talk about how divisive this is, the issue of political versus the moral obligation. look, you are in a district, you are safer. you don't have to worry about that d versus r, perhaps you have to worry about a d versus d. how sensitive are you to that when you hear speaker pelosi talk about how much it could maybe cost you the majority? >> well, first of all, the republicans are dropping like flies around here. they are leaving in droves. that is not true of the
testimonies which is democrats which is it a good signal of what people think will be in control. >> that is very true. >> and we see public sentiment shifts in the direction of the democrats. of course there are divisions in what is the end game. nobody wraem knreally knows wha. we wake up daefr with tevery das violating the law. and so it is a very complicated situation. so we will try to focus on this and prioritize the west best that we can. i'm focused on the emoluments clause.
he c i think the public is are the taking to get that he is running the white house as a money making operation for himself and his family. >> politically i think focusing on what he has done in office you would assume perhaps far more resonance. i know you didn't bring up his behavior during mueller or on russia. as much as you may believe there are impeachable offenses, is that an being amethat that is ll in what you are trying to do? >> i don't think so. i think it has been investigated.what you are tryin? >> i don't think so. i think it has been investigated. we still need some witnesses. and what is critical to put it in the context of his whole career.
trump is a business mail man al failed businessman. and i got wrapped up with the russians because no american back would lend to him. hotels and apartments. that is how vladimir putin got his hooks in to him. and so i think that story about the money will make sense to the american people because i think that it corresponds to the reality of the situation. donald trump said about mueller, if he looks at my finances, i will industry tdestroy the inve and that tells you where we need to go. >> i had a fellow member of congress say to me the problem when you talk about everything that you are trying to investigate with the president, the problem that the democrats have, they have a lot of second and third articles. and that politically whether you like it or not, you need your
lead item to have a narrative to it. and i know that is a bit cynical, but i think that i get that. do you say that frustration that whether you like it or not, if you do something like this, you have to have a story to tell? >> well, i guess in donald trump world these are a lot of very good second and third articles. for any other president of the united states, they would be article number one. any of them violating the federal election campaign -- remember, the republicans impeached bill clinton for telling one lie about an affair. just one corollary event in the life of donald trump, covering up two affair, they violated the federal campaign act four or five times by channeling illegal contributions and they didn't report any of them. so you can just match those two with something that the republicans already declared as impeachable and then i think
that we get to the really big stuff that is opening the doors of american to a foreign intervention in our election. and then using the government of the united states as a for-profit business for yourself and your family. >> whether you file articles of impeachment or not, do you imagine that there will be a report that the judiciary committee will submit to the american people of the investigation of the finances of united states? >> well, i think that that is a great question. if we get the materials that we've been trying to obtain in a lot of different committees, if we get the president's taxes which he promised us several years ago, i think that we will have the keys to unlock a lot of the critical questions. look, i think that there will be a report to the american people. some people are saying that we shouldn't go down the road of
impeachment articles just to let it sit on mitch mcconnell's death with 170 bills. we should send a report to the american people and say the senate is not performing its duty but we'll perform ours and we'll let you world know what is taking place. >> if you come up with an a indictment, share it with the public. sir, thank you for coming on. up next, we're talking to members of the tomorrow campaigns, democrats getting ready to hit the stage for the third time in houston. for the third time in houston. it's just the way things are. when you're under pressure to get the job done, it seems you have to accept the fact that some equipment will sit idle, or underutilized. but it doesn't have to be that way. that's why united rentals is combining equipment, data, safety and expertise
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right here. right now. humira. welcome back. we're just a couple hours away from tonight's big democratic debate. number three on the docket. joe biden goes in as the frontrunner. his lead is shrinking a bit. elizabeth warren has leapfrogged bernie sanders but basically tied for second place. the first time the top three candidates will all be on stage together. and while all are on the first bid biden/warren update, will sanders and warren be teaming up? all the others are looking to
break through. joining me now, jeff weaver. good to see you you. >> my pleasure, anytime. >> and let me ask the question about debate this is way. have the two first debates had an impact on this campaign and do you expect this one to 1234. >> i think they have. obviously the the field is still very browa broward b broad but narrower than it was. you will have all the qualifying candidates on one stage. so i think this is a great opportunity for the voters to see the candidates on the stage at onwoone time. >> and many in the recent corps are all hoping or asking when are sanders and warren going for
take each other on. let me ask this way. is there a -- do you worry that your supporters are going to force you guys in to a fight a lot soon than you want to be in one? >> no, i don't think so. you follow 9 poth you following the polling. there is not a lot of overlap -- >> that is true and yet i know there is a distinct difference. what is a difference between a sanders supporter and warren supporter? >> bernie's base is a more diverse base. almost every poll that is being done, he leads wilatino voters. and so this is a very different
election. so i think we are seeing it play out. he has a lot of support among working class voters. and so elizabeth warren is much more what we call in politics the wine track crowd, much better educate the crowd. more of a you floriaffluent. >> and so if your job is to get bernie sanders to 50% plus one, who is sitting on more future bernie sanders supporters, joe biden or elizabeth warren? >> that is a good question. a lot of research suggests that joe biden has a lot of working class support. and what we believe is that people become more and more familiar with joe biden's record, that toes working class voters will move to senator sanders. because of the policies that joe biden has supported, the middle
class in this country is a lot smaller than it should be. >> what is your theory as to why it is three he candidates scandd other that dominate the field? >> i think that you have three -- in many bways very strong candidates, they represent different views within the party. and i think there are only so many lanes in the race. and of the three that we've talked about, sanders, warren and biden really occupy most of that space. so leaves less opportunity for lesser known and lesser funded candidates to break through. senator sanders did it in 2015. but that is a very difficult thing to do generally. >> and especially he only had to have four people in this way. a lot tougher with 24. demolition derby. jeff weaver, thank you for coming on him about.
and let's go inside the spin room. let me start with this, i'm curious, earlier there was reporting that indicated that vice president joe biden use have no problem pushing back against somebody who has not enough experience. and a lot of people read it as biden is ready it take on elizabeth warren. is that what we're supposed to take away? >> no, of course not. there will be ten advocates sc the stage tonight and biden has the best record of achieving the pro
progressive change and i think that you will hear him make that case. he will talk about talking about plans and getting things done. he worked get the affordable care act over the finish line, single progressive overall of the health care system in a generation. he wrote the violence against women apct. but he has a track record of getting them done. and i believe it is about making real change for people in everyday lives. you will hear him tonight really make that case for his kacandid. >> and one thing that raised things to me, why telegraph who you may be punching at. >> and i don't think there is any telegraphing. i think that you will see him make the case for his campaign. and there are important policy differences absolutely. i think health care has
obviously been a significant on that top ic as it should be. and you will hear joe biden talk about the reason why he believes his plan of building the success of obamacare is the fastest way to get more help to people who need it now. and you will hear him talk about how expensive medicare for all is. and the fact they believes his plan is achievable andou will h policy differences because those are important. >> how meaningful do you think the debates have been so far, is it having the impact that if you read in the press clippings that you can it, or do you think that they have been overhyped a bit? >> well, look, i think that one interesting thing is that i think it is hard to argue that anybody in this race takes taken more hits than joe biden.
every day he is taking hits. and his number haven't moved. and there have been ours who wanted to use the debates as a moment to try to leverage their own campaigns and so far it hap hasn't worked. because know who joe biden is. and he is evering what the american people want. and they trust him and they believe that he has empathy and character pntd and so this attempt to knock him down so far hasn't yielded any results. twitter is not the entire world. and so when the press derives the majority of their stories and the majority of their thinking from what is going on twitter, they are missing a huge
piece of the democratic electorate. biden has the broadest support across the democratic party. he was leading in 19 of 21 demograph demographics. so our point is simply that if you are only paying attention to what is happening on twitter, you are not getting the full picture of what is going on. and joe biden is speaking to the broadest coalition of democrats and voters frankly across the country. >> i think the stat is over 60% of democratic primary voters are over the age of 45. i believe. anyway, kate, thanks very much. enjoy tonight. >> thanks for having me. still ahead, new president trump's department of justice is seeing if this can indict andrew mccabe. what is going on here?
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we just heard from the biden and sanders campaigns. so let's bring back the panel. this is your party. i thought it was interesting that we learned from these biden and sanders previews is that the sanders people view biden and not warren in their way. >> yes, and i do think there is a more of a working class kind of guy thing there. but i will also tell you that the data take that i've seen, elizabeth warren is almost everyone's second choice. and that puts her in a really good position to grow. she is second choice of all the sort of top tier candidates. and so at some point i do think
that bernie will have to take her on or someone will have to take her on because i think that she will be the frontrunner. >> one of the things that i've been a little hesitant to at the time as far field -- a lot of people think warren will be the nominee. but she has not taken one shred of incoming. not since donald trump in '18. we don't know how she will look after a month or two of democrats doing a bunch op-eds. let's bring this up. warren didn't seem to have any trouble taking our money in 2018, but suddenly pedal letters in 2019. the year before, we were wonderful. so what is interesting is that two or three months of democrats
saying you are just another politici politician, what will that do? >> a lot of financial firms, and in massachusetts, everybody takes money from the big firms. they all do that. and i think that secondly kate did preview a l that the vice president may be ready to go on the offensive in terms of calling her out on the cost of her plans, on the feasibility of the her plans. and she is rolling out this new social security plan which would cause a big tax increase on the top 2%. we'll watch and see how he parlays that. that is a dangerous, you know, game to play and he has to do it delicately. but there a lot of room there for him to kind of ask practically how her plans would be implemented. >> and you have to be careful. you say you put the wealth tax and this tax and this tax. doesn't always play well.
>> and spending and fiscal resfra restraint hasn't been a big issue recently. but i think that you have to think about the personal brand of these people. i look at these candidates and say who do i trust to have a plan that adds up, i have to say elizabeth warren feels like that candidate rather than joe biden who is often factually challenged even on small things. >> and you have to be careful about attacking just particularly early on. i think snoenator harris had an attack on joe biden. but certainly not assist takenable bounce take sustainable bounce in poll 37. >> are we trying to go hard to make this debate matter?
no disrespect, you wonder if it will drag. >> i think in a we've been waiting for a potential biden collapse. waiting for one of the gaffes to really like cause him to implode and it has not happened even though we're seeing a gradual notching down. >> can i just say though, i do think that the way -- i understand why the would i deny people are frustrated with the press coverage because it is from the premise of when he collapses. and it may not. >> and i wouldn't look for news at the center of this tonight. the three frontrunning candidates are not in danger of following on which the stagoff stage. there are people cheering for the collapse. but it comes from the wings. >> i think buttigieg and hair writes have to figure out some play -- >> why is there more pressure on
those two? >> because like my friend just said, i think that they are the ones to most likely -- i think several will fall off the stage. we don't know if bootigieg and harris will fall off the stage. i think that that campaign has to have some traction. and also say this, do not harm in debates first because i was working for a guy in two2008 an you who lost every dayton ebate hillary clinton. >> and he was the least like joe biden. it is still another ten person debate which i think makes it hard to even though -- >> i think that -- i did mention that the observation is that at some point joe biden may collapse. i'm not saying that the press corps is in any way -- >> i know that. but i understand that that is the premise that everybody is watching. >> that said, the most likely
thing to happen is just because of attrition rates that people like bennett and buttigieg will have to find some creative way without it looking gimmicky to make themselves stand out because it is approaching curtain call. >> all right. thank you very much. be sure to stay with msnbc for debate animalysis throughou the nice. up next, will president trump's department of justice indict the man who opened the investigation into the president? and did they try to and get rejected? we'll be right back with what could be ahead for the former fbi deputy director andrew mccabe. director andrew mccabe from national. because national lets me lose the wait at the counter... ...and choose any car in the aisle. and i don't wait when i return, thanks to drop & go. at national, i can lose the wait...and keep it off.
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now if verizon 5g can do this for the nfl... imagine what it can do for you. welcome back. we learned today that the department of justice is rejecting fbi deputy director andrew mccabe's appeal that he would be charged criminally. the rejection could pave the way to indict mccabe for allegedly misleading federal investigators about his role in the fbi, providing information to a journalist about the bureau's investigation into the clinton foundation in 2016. mccabe authorized the fbi to investigate president trump and has long been a party personally of president trump's derision. before we get to the legal
process here the rejection, he was trying to avoid a criminal charge and whether the department of justice is trying to indict him. what he is being charged with what is the charge being used to indict law enforcement officers over the years? >> there is nothing unusual about charging someone with false statements. there is something highly unusual about charging someone criminally with false statements in the context of an internal disciplinary investigation. that sort of thing is almost always dealt with as an internal discipline matter and andy mccabe was fired for it. an i.g. report report and the fbi fired him. that would be the end of it. there is a very, very long history of internal investigations, gross misconduct where people lie and don't end
up in criminal cases. >> there was all sorts of speculation when the morning began and perhaps it is justice department gossip that an andy mccabe indictment was coming. here is what the "washington post" reported this afternoon because nothing came about, but the grand jury did meet. the notification comes as the grand jury was recalled after a month-long hiatus. the panel was let go with no immediate signs of an indictment, a sign they might have balked, return later or filed a determination under seal. it was surprise to someone else i spoke to that they met and returned with nothing. the immediate speculation is oh, my god. did they reject d.o.j.? >> there are only three possibilities and you read them from the "washington post." one, that there was a snag and a are going to come back and do it later. the second, they did something
under seal. third possibility is the most improbable, they actually refused the justice department's request for an indictment. there is one reason to believe that may be what happened here. normally when you tell a high profile criminal defendant we are rejecting your appeal and taking you to the grand jury, you do it the same day. >> you have it all. done deal. >> you are done. the next phone call, you call their lawyer and say let's arrange your client's surrender. that is the normal thing. if you tell andy mccabe's lawyer it is on a wednesday you are going to the grand jury. the grand jury meets on thursday and disappears without an indictment, there is something weird happening there. that said there are other possibilities. one possibility is that there was something done under seal.
another possibility there is a hiccup that will require a little bit more time. >> one of the supposed bars, no pun intended, that justice is supposed to clear is that they try to -- like we read in the mueller report, can you get a conviction. this seems impossible to get a conviction given the president's behavior and the way the justice department decides to charge someone or not. this is obviously done for retribution. is it possible that bar was not met and that could be the reason it was rejected? a grand jury only requires a majority. there are 23 members of a grand jury. only 12 have to agree. they don't have to agree there is proof beyond a reasonable
doubt. they only need to agree that there is probable cause. if what happened is that the grand jury balked at the indictment. the old saying the grand jury will indict a ham sandwich. if andy mccabe is the guy for the grand jury in the district of columbia not even a ham sandwich, that is a lot of egg on the face of the justice department. >> obviously a kosher justice department. all right. we will be right back. department all right. we will be right back. just scan the sensor with your reader, iphone or android and manage your diabetes. with the freestyle libre 14 day system, a continuous glucose monitor, you can check your glucose levels any time, without fingersticks. ask your doctor to write a prescription for the freestyle libre 14 day system. you can do it without fingersticks. learn more at freestylelibre.us you can do it without fingersticks. know what more shrimp!ith steak and shrimp? and you know what goes great with that shrimp? steak and unlimited shrimp! and this year, with two freshly made sides,
tonight. we will be back tomorrow with more meet the press daily. msnbc will have post debate analysis as soon as the debate wraps up. the beat with ari melber starts right now. >> thank you, chuck. we have a lot in tonight's show. house democrats taking the first steps towards impeachment, or are they? we will explain. donald trump's justice department may indict a major famous and formally powerful critic, the man that literally ran the russia probe. if it sounds like there is something wrong with that it is. we have that brand-new. and joe biden, elizabeth warren will share the debate stage for the first time. we