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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  September 17, 2019 12:00am-1:00am PDT

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it's available for download now. and with that, that is our broadcast for this monday night, as we start a new week. thank you for being here with us. good night from our nbc news headquarters here in new york.
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he has over the weekend via twitter essentially pledged the entirety of american military mite in the service of a man who he seems devoted to above all other. man, of course, is saudi arabia's crown prince mohamed bin salman known as mbs. in the wake of the news that two major saudi oil facilities were attacked over the weekend, the houthi rebels have claimed responsibility. the saudis saying it was iran.
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president donald trump basically announced on twitter, you tell us what to do, my crown prince, and we shall do it for you. now to be clear, the u.s. has had a close relationship with the saudis for decades upon decades under republicans and democrats, but what has happened under this administration is on a whole other level. let's just review for a second. the very first international trip donald trump took was to saudi arabia breaking with decades of precedent. the first trip is usually canada or mexico. do you remember on that trip, the orb and the sword dance? who else would donald trump be willing to do that with? president trump has issued in his entire time as president, he's issued five vetoes and four of them have been to protect the saudis. he has bumped up weapon sales to the saudis. he has defended the saudis as they have created the worst humanitarian crisis. 10 million yemenis are one step away from famine. members of the trump administration have defended
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them, praised, laughed, smiled with them after they hacked to death a columnist from a new hampshire, a murder the cia said was personally ordered by the crown prince, mohamed bin salman. the two countries the president will bend over backwards for are russia and saudi arabia. why? >> saudi arabia and i get along great with all of them. they buy apartments from me, they spend 40 million, 50 million? am i supposed to dislike them? i like them very much. >> he told you right there. back when he was running for president, he told you what it's about. they give lots and lots of money to donald trump's businesses. there it is. you know, thanks to some great reporting we also know little snapshots about how saudis have helped trump's bottom line since he became president like when they rolled into town and spent enough money at the trump hotel in manhattan to boost the entire quarter or the time they paid for 500 rooms at trump's d.c. hotel. those are little snippets thanks
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to reporting and whistle blowers. we don't know much else. it would be helpful to have the president's tax returns which have been requested under u.s. law but are being blocked in court. today another avenue was open with the manhattan district attorney demanding the tax returns for the last few years. what else is there? what are the financial arrangements with jared kushner. after he visited saudi arabia, the two princes are said to have stayed up until nearly 4 a.m. swapping stories and planning strategy. today the united states, our country, finds itself at the point where the president is threatening war, threatening to put american lives, the lives of american service members, american blood, american treasure on the line for the guy who hacked jamal khashoggi to death for a regime that spends lots of money at his hotels. joining me now, ben rhodes, former deputy national security advisor under president obama. he is now an msnbc political
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contributor. i guess let's start with just where we are right now over the weekend. drone strikes on the saudi oil refineries. the houthis, the rebels in yemen fighting with the saudis in yemen saying it was them. what do you make of the situation? >> well, chris, first of all, we have to be very clear. we would not be at this point were it not for trump's foreign policy. pulling out of the iran deal. piling sanctions on the iranians. giving a blank check on mohamed bin salman to wage war. it is logical it would follow from that and was predicted by many of us that if he followed that the iranians would escalate. whether it was the houthis or it was a weapon coming from the iranians, this is the logical end point from trump's own administration. we have no interests in going to war on behalf of mohamed bin salo med. so we see before our eyes the
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corruption of american foreign policy. we are being asked to do something that is not in our interests, that the american people would not support. >> yeah, there's this -- a while ago there was an onion article, john bolton when those tankers were hit in the gulf that said an attack on two saudi oil tankers is an attack on all-americans, but i feel like i'm losing my mind watching people talk about this. obviously you don't want it to escalate. you don't want a hot war between saudis and iran and there are steps to be taken. what the heck is the u.s. interest in defending the saudi government from drone attacks on their oil facilities? >> first of all, chris, you have to think of this from the perspective of the middle east. there has been a war going on in yemen. >> yes. we haven't seen it. >> exactly. so the way people need to think
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of this, this is not the first strike on the saudi infrastructure. this is part of a war that has been ongoing since mohamed bin salman became prince against the houthis in yemen that has led to the deaths of tens of thousands of people, famine that puts millions of lives at risk. when we were at the end of the obama administration, what were we trying to do? we had an iran deal in effect to provide a foundation of diplomacy with iran. we went to the saudis and urged them to open a channel with the iranians. we said you do not want this proxy war to escalate all across the region, in part because it could draw us in, in part because you can't win that proxy war. nobody can win. everybody will lose. what do they do? they said no, mohamed bin salman had recently become the crown prince. he wanted to show how tough he was. the place he wanted to do that was in yemen. here we are. this is the logical end point of
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trump and mohamed bin salman's point. >> he came out and said his thinking. he made the argument that essentially the saudi -- bin salman keeps oil prices low for me. i can personally adjust the price of oil, ergo, i owe him. this is what he said in the white house. take a listen. >> saudi arabia pays cash, they've helped us out from the standpoint of jobs and all of the other things, and they've actually helped us, i would call and i would say, listen, our oil prices, our gasoline is too high. you know that, i would call the crown prince and i'd say, you've got to help us out. you've got to get some more and all of a sudden the oil starts flowing and the gasoline prices are down. no other president can do that. >> what do you make -- i mean -- >> first of all, chris, the instability that trump is causing in this region by pulling out of the iran deal is a factor in driving up oil prices, right? >> right. >> let's be very clear.
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donald trump is part of the reason why your prices are going up. whatever mohamed bin salman is telling him. the other thing is, people talk about the iranians and they're right. the iranians destabilize and medal in other countries. so do the saudis. they're meddling in yemen, libya, iraq. they are doing the same things that people complain about the iranians doing, all of which could contribute to a rise in prices, risk in conflict, destabilizing the region. we know the saudis spent enormous amounts of money at trump hotel properties. >> they own the 45th floor of trump tower. >> what we also don't know, chris; what is happening in the conversations between jared kushner and the saudi crown prince? what promises are being made about potential investments after the trump presidency? it seems to me that the corruption at the heart of the trump presidency, the trump foreign policy can be seen in saudi arabia. it doesn't get the same attention of the domestic issues because we're all-americans. we should care that we could end up in a war with a saudi crown prince who is a murder remember who killed and brutally chopped
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up a journalist for the washington post in another country who wants us to do his bidding. he wants a return on his investment. >> saudi arabia pays cash, that's what he said in justifying why he would maybe go to war. ben rhodes, thank you very much. >> thank you, chris. >> i think there's real fear about this getting very out of hand. what do you think the meaning of this sort of latest 72 hours is? >> the meaning is very clear. the saudis want to fight the iranians to the last american. >> right. >> america's foreign policy since donald trump was elected is about how much cash i can get so he's selling american's foreign policy like he's selling oil crude, apartments, it's the same thing. same kind of transaction for him except if you are dealing with murderous thugs like mbs and others.
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these people are -- mohamed bin salman's rule has been unmitigated disaster. think of this, four years ago he became defense minister. his signature policy was the war in yemen. he started bombing to oblivion the poorest country in the middle east. extremist element of al qaeda are fighting with mohamed bin salman. so our u.s. allies in yemen are hard core jihadists. if this does not scare you, it should scare you even more than ever because donald trump while inviting the taliban a week before 9/11, he is actually using selling the saudis weapons that actually they are transferring to al qaeda in yemen to fight on their behalf and now he wants america's air power to be basically the air power for al qaeda who's operating on the ground in
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yemen. look at this picture, if that doesn't remind you of afghanistan in the '80s, what does? >> people will say, and i think rightly, that the u.s. has -- the u.s. foreign policy has always sort of bent over backwards for the saudis. the key interest is how much of the world's oil supply do they control. when fdr made his pact through the bush administration to now. as someone who covers this region, what is different about this administration's treatment of the saudis versus previous? >> it's totally different. it's not anymore about america's interests. it's not about -- anymore about oil because america itself has sufficient oil and gas now that it can be independent from the middle eastern market. however, our relationship is about donald trump and jared kushner and how much money personally they are getting from mbs. mbs is very clear, his -- as transactional, as thuggish as it can be. he can butcher jamal khashoggi, get advice from jared kushner. he's dictating america's foreign
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policy. it was the other way around. we were dictating to the saudis what they needed to do before, whether it came -- whether on the issue of the palestinians, whether on the issues of radicals and others. president obama was tough. when they start -- something happened in the middle east where the idea of regime change, it started being exported to the rest of the world. so they imported -- exported regime change, the saudi, to the american system. so now what we are seeing, a sitting president in the white house who is beholden to the saudi crown prince. it was the other way around. they were our client states. now american, the united states of america is a client to the middle east. we are doing what they want. we are doing what the dictator who murdered journalists, activists, who torture people who basically send 15 goons to butcher and dismember a journalist, hang from ceilings women's right activists while pretending to be reformist, we are beholden to this guy.
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there's rumors around the middle east that he wants to have an open war with iran. whatever it takes. that kind of open war will destabilize the world, not only the middle east. iraq war will look like a walk in the park. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. thank you, chris. coming up, the whistle-blower within the intelligence community whose complaint of misconduct could involve the president? why is the director of intelligence is doing to get it out.
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protections. intelligence community inspector general said the complaint satisfied the statutory definition of an urgent concern. now under the law the congressional house intelligence committee is entitled to see what the whistle-blower entails. nevertheless, the acting director of national intelligence is withholding the complaint from congress and you can't see it. according to the house intelligence committee they said the complaint, quote, involves confidentially and potentially privileged communications by persons outside the intelligence community. that sent experts on fire this weekend because that only pertains to a very tiny circle of people, including the president and a few folks around him, which would seem to indicate that the misconduct is within that small group. here's how congressman adam schiff, the chairman of the house intelligence committee described it.
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>> no dni, no director of national intelligence has ever refused to turn over a whistle-blower complaint. here, margaret, the inspector general found this to be urgent, found it to be credible. they did some preliminary investigation and found them to be credible, that suggests corroboration, and that it involved serious or flagrant wrongdoing and according to the director of the national intelligence, the reason he's not acting to provide it even though the statute mandates he do so is because he is being instructed not to. this involved a higher authority, someone above the dni. there are only a few people above the dni. >> in response, congressman shiv wrote to the acting director, the committee can only conclude based on this remarkable confluence of factors that this involves the president of the united states and/or other senior or white house administration officials. that letter came with a subpoena for that whistle-blower complaint. here is eric swallow of southern
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california. good to have you here. >> thanks for having me on. >> this is a little complicated. let's start with the basic principle there is in the law legal statutory provisions. how does that work? >> if you see something that is unlawful, you are protected. if you say something. you can't be fired and also after seven days congress will be notified and we'll take our own measures. if it's classified it goes through a review to make sure that it's nothing that is secret or top secret is disseminated and we can take action and still protect our secrets. >> my understanding, post the church committee, their entire structure of intelligence oversight, this is part of that. the idea is that if you have a whistle-blower, you need -- that congress serves this really key role in overseeing the intelligence community because there's someone that isn't in their sort of direct chain of command. >> that's right.
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you had the abuses going on in the nixon administration and part of the cleanup, the reform was the church commission. one of the reforms they put in place was to protect people who would see something. it involves the president or senior people around him. it would have future whistle blowers. if people come forward and see -- future whistle blowers may look at this and say, i don't know if i want to come forward if it's not going to make its way to the people who want to know. >> is it likely from the people who know. privileged communications which is not a big group of people? >> two parts. one that it's outside the intelligence community. it's not someone in the cia, nsa, fbi and then second is
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that, yes, the person who it also involves has or may have a privilege that they could assert. this white house will go to great lengths to assert a privilege. we'll hear from cory lewandowski. they're trying to assert privilege for someone who never worked at the white house. this could be someone in the president's family who doesn't work at the white house. here's the lengths that they'll go. >> they'll issue a subpoena. i have seen this play out a ton of times. congress tries to do its oversight role. the white house says, no, you can't have it. you go to court and lord knows where it ends up in court. >> i think empty chairs should be empty pockets. we should seek fines. the president benefits from this. he tells them not to cooperate, don't go in. they don't go in and there's a public confusion created because we're relying on letters that we send back and forth. we're trying to say this is really bad. he wins because he overwhelms
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us. >> how urgent is this? do you have any inkling what this is about? >> it's almost like a double whistle-blower. you have the inspector general coming forward to say you guys should have heard about this. you didn't. if he was so moved to tell us that, to me that says it's pretty important. >> you have the whistle-blower and the ig is the one sort of flagging this. >> yes. >> this person should be talking to congress. >> we never would have heard about it unless he came forward. >> it's the ig who sort of alerts you to this issue. >> a couple of weeks went by, we should have known. he figures out we don't know so he sends -- you can see in mr. schiff's back and forth, there's a footnote that the ig sent to mr. schiff. >> this is them waiving a red flag saying something untoward, possibly law breaking, is going on here, right? they have a legal requirement to make this person available to you? >> i see the red light is
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flashing for congress to know. now it's how do we find out otherwise. is this whistle-blower in peril? >> how do you find out? what is the answer to that question? >> so we're demanding that the dni come in and produce this information by thursday. he has a couple of days to do this. if he doesn't -- i'll leave it to mr. schiff, but we're going to go through all the means that we have. chris, if we were in the minority we would be so powerless. this shows why it was so important to win the house. >> when you say all the means you have, like a finding of contempt against the dni? some sort of court order? that's the remedy, i guess. >> that's the remedy. we've done that with the attorney general, we've done that with the secretary of commerce and then it just gives you tools when it goes to court. doesn't happen as fast as you would like. a year ago we wouldn't have been able to do anything. >> eric swallow who is on both judiciary and house.
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the largest national strike in over a decade. michael moore is here to talk about the implications. don't go away.
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if you know us, we like to keep ourselves busy. it's climate week. i'm going to be moderating a climate forum with my colleague ali velshi. we'll have two nights of special shows all about climate, "climate in crisis" thursday and friday night.
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we have also just announced the live with pod fall tour starts in austin, texas, with ted cruz making stops in l.a., chicago, back here in new york. more details about that on our website, msnbc.com/withpodtour. i'm back here with eric foner. that will be a great conversation. finally, we keep a lot coming. we have a new podcast episode coming out with samantha power. harsh critic of american foreign policy who became a maker of american foreign policy. ultimately is u.n. ambassador. what it's like to go from the outside to the inside and i think it's particularly relevant without a national security adviser. that episode goes live at 3 a.m.
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today is day one of the biggest nationwide strike in 12 years. at midnight close to 50,000 members of the united auto workers hit picket lines against general motors. the associated press points out workers shut down 33 manufacturing plants in nine states across the u.s. as well as 22 parts distribution warehouses. the last time gm went on strike was back in 2007 before the
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financial crisis and the bailout. this time around the union says a strike could have been avoided had gm made their latest offer sooner. the car maker wants more health care costs while they're pushing for pay raises and to reopen closed plants like the one in wardstown, ohio. as of 5:00 this evening a spokesperson said only 2% of the contract terms had been agreed upon. quote, we have 98% of the agreement to go, it's going to take a while. one of the places affected by the strike is flint, michigan. more than 1200 workers walked off the job. michael moore, academy award winning filmmaker "roger and me" about the plant closing in flint, michigan. welcome. >> thanks for having me here. >> it's a very big strike. labor actions this size is not that common outside of the teacher uprising. what do you think sort of
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americans watching this happen should think about, know about. >> let's give credit to the teachers. couple of years ago, west virginia, they started this. and i think people watched those strikes in other states and thought, yeah, why aren't we using the power that we have? there's all these givebacks, we have to cut our wages, give back our health benefits or we have to pay more. we have the deductibles. when they have the debate, they talk about people want to keep their health insurance. you know, no. which candidate, i forgot who said it, they don't like their private health insurance companies and this is a good example of how you have private insurance until the company decides, yeah, you know what? we don't really want to pay that much. >> or you should pay more. >> or you should pay more. >> right. >> or you've got to work this many extra days or months before you have full benefits, et
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cetera, et cetera. and you see that you are -- the system, if we keep the system we have, we will be beholden to that 1%. that's why it has to change for this election. i'm personally honored and proud that this is happening with general motors and with the uaw. my uncle was in the sitdown strike that founded the uaw. my family has been part of this for a long time. >> you talked about the teachers. in 2018 there were 20 major work stop pages involving 485,000 workers. that's the highest number since 1986, in 22 years. this chart to me tells me a lot you need to know about the balance of power between owners and workers, right? >> right. >> those are strikes of more than 1,000 workers year by year by year. >> yes. >> what you see is this very powerful tool just falls off a cliff and then 2018 a little bit of an uptick.
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>> when it falls off the cliff, that's when people's wages stop going up, inflation. right there. i can see on that chart the various strikes my father was in at general motors. the first tall one is when all health care was covered. the next one was dental, eye care in the next tall one. it just went on and on like that until all of a sudden every factory workers had four weeks' paid vacation just like the people with better jobs, the workers got to have that. it only came about because of those strikes. it only came about because they were willing to fight for it. this is the last thing corporate america and wall street want is to see people right now. the workers are not asking for a lot here. we're talking about a company that made almost $12 billion in profits. >> there's of course the case with gm as there is with the banks. they're in a sort of special category. >> yes, they are.
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why is that? >> americans -- >> you and i -- >> and everybody watching. >> i think rightfully in the case, particularly the automakers, rightfully in the case of the automakers came together with a rescue plan. it was a public activity. >> no, it had to happen. there were tens of thousands of jobs at stake. the mistake i think that was made is that for a short time president obama was essentially the de facto ceo of general motors. he said you have to leave that board, that executive has to go. they were making real decisions, sounded like socialism to me, i don't want to get into that. it was -- i wish he had not returned the company to them because -- >> wish he would have kept it? >> well, not forever. let's face it, the government should not -- one of the jobs of government is not to build cars. >> i don't know -- >> how about this? if i was his advisor i would say to him, mr. obama, barack, hang
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onto the company a little bit longer because you know what we can do here? we can make it a 21st century transportation company. the internal combustion edge begin is not going to be here at the end of the century or the planet will not be here. this has got to end. we could be building mass transit, light rail, bullet trains, buses, things that are less harmful to the planet. could have made this shift. they made the shift with our factories in flint and detroit, they made that shift in world war ii in the matter of a month or two. one day they were building buicks and about 45 days later, i don't know the exact number of days, very quick, they were building b-29s. >> right. >> one of the plants that was building the -- in the car factory plants there was a plane coming off the assembly line every 61 minutes. they built a plane every 61 minutes.
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it was that fast. it was that efficient. they could do that to improve this planet -- >> well -- >> -- but he didn't do that. he gave it back to the company and then they just went about, let's just make more money. let's keep building these cars that are killing the planet and where are we now? >> one of the things that we've seen also is it 2007 gas prices low, suvs go up. gm right now is interestingly on the wrong side of the trump administration and the right side on this climate fight on fuel standards. they've teemed up with the other automakers and california has higher fuel standards. >> yeah. yeah. >> the president, it was interesting to me. i was wondering today if trump would say something about the strike because he's so attuned, understandably, he understands the 77,000 votes made him -- >> wisconsin, pennsylvania. >> i thought to myself, i wonder what he's going to say on this. it's a little bit of a dilemma
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for him. he sort of punted. take a listen. >> do you stand with the auto workers in the strike? >> i have a great relationship. i got a tremendous number of votes. my relationship has been very strong with the auto workers. nobody's ever brought more companies into the united states. i have japan and germany and many countries have been bringing car companies in and opening plants and expanding plants. big things are happening in ohio, including with lordstown. very positive things are happening. >> so he doesn't say he supports the workers in the strike, but i couldn't believe the hubris saying very positive things are happening. >> yeah, it's looking up there. >> they just closed a plant. >> yeah, but of course we don't have to get into this. if he says it, he believes it. he knows maybe 60 million people are going to believe it's true because he said it's true. here's the truth.
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the auto workers in michigan where the gm plant is, in genesee county, wayne, oakland, lancing, all of these counties except for one over on the west side that have a gm factory voted for hillary clinton. they didn't vote for him. >> that's interesting. >> the auto workers did not vote for him. this is a real thing. when you think working class, pundant class and joe biden talk about it. like it's lunch bucket joe and that's who's got to win but the majority of the working class are women of color. they are young. they earn the lowest wages in our economy. when you think working class, every time you hear that term, you need to think it's a 30-year-old black woman. that's what the working class is. >> there's a case that if you spend a lot of time around car country, detroit, flint, what the uaw has built over the course of the years as an
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organization, as a union, as a political force is a fascinating look of how you put together -- stitch together the kind of multi-racial coalition that is the very thing that the democratic party and center left are thinking about. >> right. >> talk to uaw workers, it's a diverse group. >> you've shown that on your video here today. first of all, uaw is one of the first unions that demanded during negotiations and strikes that the assembly line be integrated after they had to work down in the foundry, the worst jobs, hardest jobs, lowest life expectancy. they integrated the line way before we had integration in schools. that was a priority of the ruther brothers. they were socialists. if it weren't for them and those who came from new york to help organize those strikes in the '30s and '40s, we wouldn't have the middle class that we have today and so i know my family, they were grateful for those who held these positions and led the way. but i think this is a really
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important week and people need to get behind this strike. people should be vocal about it on social media. encourage your friends and neighbors to be supportive and think about doing it yourself. that's the scariest thing. if everybody just went out there and said, you know what, i'm done giving back. i'm done for the deductibles going up. quit telling me i love my health care. this whole rotten system sucks and it's time for a change. >> put that on the bumper sticker, yes. still ahead, new polling shows a growing consensus on climate. how to turn that into change ahead. purdue pharma, the makers of oxycontin files for bankruptcy. what that means for the thousands of lawsuits that they face and the family who's behind it all next.
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if you saw the news over the weekend that purdue pharma was declaring bankruptcy, you might think, well, just deserts. here's this company that multiple independent reports, investigations show used a variety of tactics to put on the entire medical system, from hospitals to doctors. not just to ensure that the opioid the company produced for pain got prescribed but that the entirety of american medicine reconceptualized the importance of pain and pumped opioids into its patients. it was extremely lucrative as an undertaking. more than $35 billion in sales launched in 1996 according to
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the wall street journal. the company was extremely successful in pushing prescriptions. opioid sales sharply rising in the critical years from the late '90s onward. it was devastatingly destructive to america. they were involved in more than 47,000 drug deaths according to the cdc. nearly 218,000 people died in the u.s. from overdoses related to prescription opioids between 1989 and 2017. that's just prescription opioids. purdue pharma is not the only manufacturer but it is arguably one of the key precipitating causes of the opioid epidemic. because of this purdue pharma is now facing thousands of lawsuits. the announcement that they are filing for bankruptcy is in response to that. the big settlement would pay out $10 billion over time which sounds like a lot of money, just deserved, but if you scratch the deal it starts to look worse and worse. for one, at least 25 state attorneys general have not signed onto the settlement
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because they think it lets purdue pharma off too easy. number two, members of the sackler family hired luther strange to go around and get republican state attorneys general to sign onto it. number three, by purdue pharma declaring bankruptcy they have put all of the other lawsuits on hold and the sackler family, the ones that own purdue pharma are not claiming bankruptcy. they asked the judge to extend the shields of the assets to the sacklers. right now the assets, that's still theirs. we learned on friday they moved a billion dollar over the course of the country filed by the new york attorney general. so far, this is where it stands. this family basically dealt drugs to america.
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are going to walk away. street dealers rot in jail and everyone else is left to clean up the mess you made.
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this is a week of international attention to the climate crisis. on friday, there will be enormous global student walkout ahead of the u.n. climate action summit. i'll be hosting our climate forum with ali velshi on thursday and friday followed by climate in crisis special programming those nights right here in this hour. on the eve of this big week of international focus on climate change, new polling shows people's opinions are moving and changing. it is happening in front of our eyes. people are noticing. we're used to seeing polls that show an even partisan split on so many issues, similar to polls along the lines of do you like trump or not, basically. and what's interesting about these polls is that they are not that.
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a new cbs/yougov poll finds 71% think human activity contributes a lot or some to climate change. 64% think climate change is either a crisis or a serious problem. and 67% believe humanity can either stop it or slow it. there's more consensus on the climate than there is in other parts of our politics which is somewhat remarkable to imagine. the amount of organizing and attention and movement in public opinion sufficient to mobilize the american public behind the scale of the solution that's probably necessary? joining me now, author naomi klein, whose latest book is on this topic called "on fire: the case for the green new deal." who's been doing a lot of work on this. how are you? >> i'm good. >> let's start with the polling. it's good to start with good news i'm pleasantly surprised to the point i'm not sure i believe it by the polling but the polling has changed considerably recently. >> it's been consistent. i think the biggest shift is the urgency question. >> i agree. >> you have a pretty broad partisan split. that's beginning to shift generationally. so younger republicans do recognize that this is real and happening and they want to do something about it.
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but the biggest difference is that among the people who believe in it, they want to do something about it a lot and are ranking it very high. like right alongside health care as a top priority. and that's the biggest shift, for many years it was, yeah, i care about climate change, if you ask people to rank it, which i personally believe is a bizarre thing to do. >> right. >> do you care more about a job or having a habitable planet? >> right. >> it's a weird question. all issues are inside the planet. but that said, people would reliably rank climate last and now they're ranking it first, second. >> so that's the thing that has been most striking to me about even the last six months and the rate of acceleration of it is this prioritization question. i agree with you that like asking it is weird. >> yeah. >> but it's also the case, like, political movements, like, presidents have to prioritize, legislators, you know, they're going to move some bill first. some bill second. it is really striking to me how effective i think a lot of organizers, grassroots groups,
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all sorts of people -- >> absolutely. >> -- have been in pushing that priority urgency question. >> pushing the priority. also, there is lived experience. there are a lot of americans whose lives have been personally touched by wildfires, by megastorms. droughts. >> flooding. >> yeah. there's the fact that scientists have started speaking in very plain language saying things like you 12 years, now 11, to change everything. that tends to get people's attention. but absolutely, i think, and speaking of ranking, i think the biggest change is that we have a framework with the green new deal on the table that actually says, you don't have to rank, we can -- we can radically lower emissions and create millions of great jobs in the process and we'll even throw health care in there as well because actually it's linked to climate change, it's low carbon work, we can talk about how those are connected, but i think the real shift is that we rather than just carving out climate, as an issue apart from all these other issues, it's now being treated like the framework for the next economy and everything else fits inside of that. >> right. and i keep thinking about this,
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this thing that david wells who wrote a great book on the climate crisis, said to me that, like, similar to what you just said, everything happens in the climate. it's the one totalizing thing there is, almost by definition. >> well, it is -- >> like -- >> it is the big tent. >> right. literally nothing outside of it except for space. like, that's the only issue that doesn't happen. and i think that -- i wonder how much you think that is happening this sort of coalition is also being built globally. i know you spent a lot of time talking to, reporting on folks that aren't here in the u.s., that are involved in these sort of struggles in other countries. it does seem to me like there is a movement that has a sort tremendous global reach as well. >> absolutely. there has been -- >> for a long time. >> for a long time. but greta thunberg arrived by sailboat a couple weeks ago. she's part of a global movement of children. of young people. who are really not interested in, you know, who emitted what in which country.
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they're fighting for each other's futures. they have tremendous sort of international solidarity in the way they're organizing. they've had these mass days of action. in march, there were 1.6 million young people they estimate walking out of school going on strike and saying we're not -- why should we study for a future that our leaders are not -- are betting against when they build new fossil fuel infrastructure. and now on the 20th where there's going to be another wave of climate strikes, which is global, around the world, and, yeah, the green new deal framework is being talked about in the uk. it's being talked about within the european union. it's been talked about in canada. and the idea, itself, actually comes from latin america. you know, in this book, i quote a bolivian climate negotiator ten years ago calling for a marshal plan for planet earth which is a different historical analogy. >> right. >> the same idea of this has to be about technology transfers, this is the next economy. >> do you feel the -- do you
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feel like there's more of a match between public opinion, political will, and political organizing and the scale of the solution than there was before, but how far -- they seem very far apart, still, to me. >> well, i don't foe. i think it's catching up, and i think the more people hear concrete ideas about how we deal with this crisis that fly in the face of the sort of fox news version of it's all about -- >> sacrifice. >> sacrifice. taking away your stuff. right? there are things that are going to change. there are sacrifices, but there are all kinds of things that are going to get better. we're going to have better public services, better transit, better quality of life in all kinds of ways. >> i think replacing the sort of doom vision and navigation vision with an exciting vision of bounty has been an important conceptual turn that's happened in the last six months to a year. naomi klein. "on fire: the burning case for a green new deal."
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>> thank you for having me. >> that is "all in" for this evening. "the rachel maddow show" begins president trump says america is locked and loaded and looking for iran after an attack on a huge oil facility. the president takes aim at "the new york times" after its new reporting, an explosive story about justice brett kavanaugh a year after the senate voted to put him on the court. five years of first meeting edward snowden in moscow, our conversation with him today. we'll hear him talk about life, our politics, our data, who's looking at it, how vulnerable we are, and along the way, he talks about donald trump. >> donald trump strikes me like nothing so much as a man who has never really known a love that he hn'

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