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tv   Deadline White House  MSNBC  September 30, 2019 1:00pm-2:01pm PDT

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sure that donald trump is held accountable. thats what we have to do. >> we made a promise to talk to you about guns, which is something we think is important to talk about, this breaking news came out. so i'm 23469ing you again to have a conversation meaningful and close to you about guns in this country. beto o'rourke is a 2020 presidential candidate and former congressman from texas. diagnose deadline white house" begins right now. >> it's 4:00 in -- with you blew up our show to bring you some breaking news. i'm here with john holland, tim wilson f. brian, and ashley parker also is standing by. rudy giuliani, president's sidesick, president's personal criminal lawyer in the mueller investigation, seems to be the person pushing donald trump in front of the moving training for
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moving -- has today been subpoenaed. i'll read what was just handed to me -- congressmen ship, engleman and cummings subpoena rudy giuliani. the document deadlines is october 15th. they are seeking documents, noticing deposition with his three of rudy giuliani's business associates. rudy giuliani now on or wherever one like rudy giuliani goes when he needs a good lawyer. he's going to need one. joyce, what does it mean, that he's now in the center of not just donald trump's conservative media shenanigans, not just in the center of donald trump's defense and spin efforts for the mule are probe, now smack-dab in the middle of impeachment investigation that have now risen to 55%, public opinion
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swinging more than ten points in days. it has to at least have something to do with the mayhem and chaos that rudy giuliani brings to all presidential conduct, vis-a-vis donald trump and foreign policy. >> you know, rudy giuliani would have been my first choice for a witness to subpoena right now, too. the reason for that is there's a compelling timeline of conduct involving giuliani and ukraine. i think when it's all put on sort of one level timeline by the intelligence, by the oversight committee staffer for giuliani's testimony, we'll all by surprised by how much of that conduct has been happening in plain sight, and how it all adding up to paint a really compelling picture of this president's culpability for the conduct in ukraine. what we have focused on so far is the whistle-blower complaint, really there's been a lengthy history of giuliani needing --
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of prosecutors being encouraged to take up pointless investigations into the bidens, which is nothing more than political smear. also because giuliani seemed to have an inability to stick to a consistent story over time, having him being questioned and cross-examined by skillful prosecutors, skill of committee staff i think will have a compelling picture of what's been being on here. >> joyce vance addressing the news that broke moments ago, presidential personal attorney rudy giuliani, who's in the middle of what is now an impeachment proceeding against don't jurks trump, cbs news reporting that 55% of people now support an inquirinquiry, up of put in motion by rudy giuliani, who as the whistle-blower rho in a complained made public last week to congress, to the american people, was the person
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that donald trump was looking to for counsel, for advice about what in his mind and really only in his mind was ukrainian corruption that ensnared his potential domestic rival, joe biden. >> did you ask the ukraine to investigate joe biden? >> no, actually i didn't. i asked the ukraine to investigate the allegations that there was interference in the election of 2016 by the ukrainians for the benefit of hillary clinton, for which there already is a -- >> you never asked anything about hunter biden other joe biden. >> all i asked was to get to the bottom of how was yusenko, who was appointed, to -- >> so you did ask ukraine to look into joe biden? >> of course i did. joe biden's son got $1.5 billion
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from china, and you won't to cover it. you want to cover some ridiculous charge that i urged the ukrainian government to investigate corruption. i did, and i'm proud of it. >> that's not a ridiculous allegation. you just admitted it. did the president talk to the ukrainian president about what he wanted done with joe biden and with paul manafort? >> i have no idea. i never asked him that, and i wouldn't care if he did. he had ever right to do it as president of the united states. you know who i did it at the request of? the state department. i never talked to a ukrainian official until the state department called me and asked me to do it, and then i reported every conversation back to them. laura, i'm a pretty good lawyer, just a country lawyer, but it's all here, right here. the first call from the state department. parker, at rudy giuliani held up the phone and incriminated the stapt
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department, ambassador volker resigned. as we were coming on the news, three house committees investigating potentially corruption of the distribution of military aid to ukraine, longstanding u.s. ally at risk from russian aggression. questions now, those committees wanting to see and wanting documents produced by the president's personal lawyer rudy giuliani by october 15th. your reaction. >> well, one this is that's so interesting about this breaking development franksly is for so long, the president and his team have been able to operate with a degree of impunity. the president himself has a sense that he's invincible. this is not the first time we've seen rudy giuliani deliver a series of increasingly erratic performances. he did is during the mueller
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investigation, and the russia probe. there seems to be some actual consequences for him potentially. one of the things they explicitly said as to why they issued subpoenas, is they said you admitted on live television that you dealt with a foreign government and asked them to interfere in our elections. when he waves his phone and says i have the receipts, the texts from the state department, then that's another line of inquiry for these committees to pursue and say, okay, you have these text messages from these people, we believe there may be something improper, we'd like to see thor text messages, those calls, your accounting. so it will be interesting odds to you giuliani handles this. this is the first time he's been called for account to the stuff he's been saying on television, newspapers and such. >> parker, it would seem there's a congressional effort to connect the dots. we know that donald trump held up, delayed, your paper has reported that he had held up the
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military aid to the ukraine. he told mick mulvaney don't give it. we no that donald trump had rudy giuliani dispatched to the ukraine to get the ukrainian government to investigate joe biden and his son. we know it's been reported in your paper, the "wall street journal" and others, that the ukrainians viewed those investigations as investigated and adjudicated. what are the missing pieces? we till need to understand what else was in on -- we have some news that john bolden, three officials close to bolton said he argued against donald trump calling the ukrainian president, because he was concerned that he wasn't coordinating advisers. it seems that bolton is distancing himself from this entire mess. do we know anything about pompeo's exposure or other
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advisers? >> well, those are the questions. for the missing pieces, i think you would want to know what exactly did president trump ask rudy giuliani to do? secondly we snowe this was what group of people who listened in on that call. who were -- we know some people thought the call was inappropriate. who were those people? who flagged those concerns? and who made the people to take that is information that was politically sensitive and put it in a system, a codeword classification system, which is something the democrats are citing as yet another sign of what they believe may be a cover-up. >> john heilman, before this news broke, we were going to start with the news from yesterday about former homeland security adviser tom boss dert who said this -- we don't have
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in yet, but another call from within the house. it seems that the white house posture seems to be, they seems to be trying to get in is to run the same play of the mueller probe, of some sort of deep state, but with bossert, with rudy giuliani, all of the evidence potentially -- is coming from inside the house. here is his former homeland security adviser. >> the whistle-blower's complaint says that white house officials were deeply disturbed by the is that's phone wall with zelensky. what was your reaction? >> this entire mess has my frustrated. it's a bad day for this president, if he's asking for political dirt on an opponent. >> nbc is reporting bolton argued against calling zelensky on july 25th, because he was
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concerned the president wasn't coordinating with advisers. >> just for the sake of history, we should pause for a moment. we feel all witnessed this devolution, he became a castoff, and now tv lawyer, and now he's going to be a witness. it seems like we're on a trajectory of america's co-conspirator or america's defendant. and this is an amazing thing. he was one of the most admired men in america. the fact we are here now watching him unravel, as much as we talked about trump's incoherence and stupidity and anger, giuliani has been a spectacle.
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every time you watch him, you think i can't believe the president encouraging this at the individual. but i do think it's obvious -- we made this point the other day, trump gets away with the mueller stuff, gets away with russia. you're at that moment, and many normal people would look at that and say i did some bad stuff, i barely got away with it, so i better not get anywhere close to that. there but for the grace of god i escaped unscathed, i will never come close to doing this again? and others go i got away with did? i'll do it again. all these people who lived through the mueller investigation with mortal terror thinking it might be unravel to see him making this phone call, can you see wile there were so many people inside the house who were so disturbed at the sight
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of him doing this. obviously it was the wrong thing to do. it was inappropriate in a million ways, abuse of power, but you also have to imagine that even in the closest counsels of trump there was an element of, really? you just got away with this thing and you're going back in and do it again and even worse and more gratuitous way? even foe the loyalists, i think it was a case of, man, we're out of here. >> you think of the addict who is saved at the last minute or the person with the heart attack who gets out of the hospital and has a double baking cheeseburger that is trump's pathologies, but there's something revealed about the enablers, it's a moment of choosing, the battles against jim comey, against andy mccabe, against robert mueller, who was appointed special counsel, you
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know i guess you could imagine him taking on john bolton after his comments today which they'll be in fox news tonight unless they're in censorship today, i really don't know. how long does the old playbook of blaming some strong man -- these are all the calls that have come from inside the house. don mcgahn, the most named witness in the mueller report, john kelly who who memos about kushner's background check, admiral rogers, that he wasn't directed to do anything when it came to russia, mattis who resigned, chris wray, john bolden who today said he disagreed with the policy of disengagement and didn't think donald trump should make the phone call. tom bossert account yesterday
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said he tried over and over and over to say the ukraine thing was b.s., trump just fixated it, ands person giving him the political crack, rudy giuliani, now subpoenaed. >> it's this argument that donald trump has adult supervise in the white house is completely false. there is no adult supervise. no one can reach him. all those folks who are gone now confessing their sins, or the people that are there right now whispering off the record to reporters saying it's terrible, he won't listen. guess what? they all have a responsibility. the ones that are gone have a responsibility to speak he truthfully, the others have an obligation to quit or -- that's because trump is a reqless gambler, and john's point is correct. after you get away with
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something terrible, you skooch out from the allegations, and you ask another foreign power to help you win an election, and using extortion on a foreign power? this is never going to end well. trump isn't magic, he isn't invulnerable. if you cut him, he'll still bleed. we're going to get to the point where these subpoenas will accrete, this evidence will accrete. you'll see a cast of characters that will make american's peo e people's eyes pop out. you'll be shocked. >> one of the things i keep hearing, the counter-narratives, the democrats have to keep this simpler. i don't know how much simpler or
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seedier it can against that. gambling? a casino, hookers in a whorehouse, this is -- >> one of the startling and delicious aspect is how quickly it's unraveling. the mueller investigation was two years long. there were a lot of unknown as, it felt opaque. it felt complicated to voters, journalists, and then suddenly you have the president reaching into the glass box and just hitting the plunger on the tnt box himself -- >> and then releasing the transcript where he does it. it's like, hey, look at me. >> because he's profoundly ignora ignorant. he doesn't understand any of this stuff. he's never had adult supervision his whole life. he sort of had crossing guards who get him from one side of the road to another, and now he's been dumped in the middle of this highway where there are cars zipping past at about 80 miles an hour, he doesn't know where to go.
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if he steps in the wrong direction, he's going to get hurt. it's not just trump who's being pulled into this world. it's giuliani, bill barr has exposure which i don't think everyone ever thought the most artful dodger would be named in a document. >> trump says to zelensky, the ukrainian president, mock up the bidens, and do it with rudy and bill barr. >> not only trump naming him, the justice department was given this information and had to make a prosecution decision. made this very narrow decision around whether it was a campaign finance violation, which i think is going to get examined. it was clearly also extortion and bribery problems here, that bill barr chose to pass on, or the justice department chose to pass on. he will get put on under oath at a minimum and have to explain himself. the other breaking news, rudy giuliani has been subpoenaed by three house committees for documents.
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rudy giuliani at the center of the president's impending impeachment investigation. one of the things that will be different for mueller 2.0 -- is fox seems to have had it with some of the paid liars. here's chris wallace yesterday with stephen miller. >> why did he whether or not three private lawyers to get information on biden from the ukrainian government, rather than go for lull of the agencies of his government. two different points, number one. >> how about answering my question. >> john durham, as you know. >> wait a minute, he's investigating miscompletely different. stephen, i'm asking you a direct question. why did the the president use private attorneys rather than go to the state department. if you don't know, that's acceptable, but let's not talk about john durham -- >> there's two issues -- >> why did he do it? if the argument is corruption,
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why did the president go against his unpentagon and own state department. >> chris, i don't understand how you can ask that question while at the same time cad monthishing the president for wanting to get to the bottom of one of perhaps the biggest corruption scandal in the ukraine -- >> i'm not admonthishing anyone. >> chris, chris -- >> with all due respect, this is an exercise in obfuscation. >> rick wilson, that made my heart happy. >>ively just thinking, shep smith and chris wallace must be angry over there, because the rest of the network is blasting out deep-state propagation. >> but we shouldn't stip over not just the brilliant of the work they're doing, but the courage -- i don't know, but what made it -- >> i think you can see how uncomfortable stephen miller looked. he was being put under heat at what he thought would be a friendly venue.
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he looked like -- he looked he was about to lay an egg, because he was -- he lays an egg every 34 days as a reptile, but there he was so nervous, so unhappy, trying to filibuster think. that's what you'll see from's these guys. they're going to try to scream and yell about this ig error that are completely made up by jay sekulow, and this universe around them. the focus, if congress does their job properly, is to bring out a network of relationships. these ukrainians named in the subpoenas, they're basically unregistered foreign lobbyists is what it looks like. i'm curious how long they will hold up along some very withering fire where they don't have attorney-client privilege. parker, let me get you to weigh in. you and your colleagues have
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done extraordinary reporting and have tracked this faster than anybody. the white house doesn't appear to have caught up with it. i saw the president attacking the whistle-blower in the oval office. the whistle-blower's complaint has now been corroborated by -- i apologize for the shenanigans here, of rudy giuliani's cable news appearances, by donald trump's own disclosures. every time they seem to try to get ahead of something or try to rebut something, and they haven't refuted or put on any evidence to disprove a word or a line of this whistle-blower complaint, the story seems to get away from them again. >> well, this is a white house that is trying to figure out how to handle something they truly thought would never come, which was impeachment. as much as trump challenged the democrats to move forward, our interesting is he's not happy that it has happened and didn't expect it.
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so will there be a war room? the answer is nothing is clear. there's some thought that the campaign might take the lead. one thing i'm hearing is that republicans on capitol hill, republican leadership, is frustrated with this. they are watching the same sunday shows and television interviews we are, and they're saying, you know, leader mccarthy didn't look that great. we need some talking points, some clear direction, they're urging to follow a model more akin to what bill clinton did, but the white house hasn't yet decided on that. there is uncertainly, making people, especially republicans on capitol hill and people outside the president's orbit, increasely frustrated. >> and his aides are among thoughs increase by nervous. i'm sure there's officials hiring criminal defense attorneys, and some names are being retained, maybe upping
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their hourly rate. there are people not just worried about donald trump's political help, but worried about their own exposure. >> i think they're all out hiring lawyers today, if they didn't already have them. it makes me think about a part of the mueller report, where mueller expressed frustration and said, look, here's what we found, but it might be that we would have found something different, we would have viewed this whole situation in a different light if people had been honest with us. he goes on to talk about the different ways that evidence was kept from him. it was destroyed, people shut down their apps or used secret information. some of the evidence was kept offshore. the president of the united states didn't submit for an interview. mueller never did really make any sort of a break, never did get an inside witness who came forward and told him the truth. these people now have a lot greater risk of exposure. there's a whistle-blower, and
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that's really the first time someone has gotten a view from inside this white house. now all of these people have to be rethinking their personal exposure. and sometimes we get so far down in the weeks that we don't ask ourselves the fundamental questions. here's the fundamental question here. why did the president ever send rudy giuliani to ukraine? because when you think about it, the president was complaining about how corrupt prosecutions in ukraine were, and yet he sent a personal lawyer, not a government official, to talk to ukrainian prosecutors, to the ukrainian leader, when if there was really anything to these allegations about joe biden, he could have just had somebody make a phone call to the fbi. these folks inside of the white house know that the entire situation smells really bad from the start. they'll be looking for an off-ramp. i hope that off-ramp will be talking to someone in congress.
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>> thank you. stick around. we have lost ashley parker, because if you've been reading "the washington post" lately, she probably off breaking another story. and congress moving ahead as support for impeachment procedures swells. we'll have the latest from capitol hill. stay with us. ve the latest from capitol hill stay with us ♪ ♪ 'cos i know what it means ♪ to walk along the lonely street of dreams ♪ ♪ here i go again on my--- you realize your vows are a whitesnake song? i do. if you ride, you get it. geico motorcycle. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more. this is the family who wanted to connect... to go where they could explore and experience adventure in unexpected places...
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something about the 4:00 hour. there's more breaking news from "wall street journal." they are reporting that mike pompeo was on the july 25th phone call with the president of
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ukraine and donald trump. that is call at the center of the impeachment inquiry, at the center of the whistle-blower complaint that put that in motion. from the "wall street journal," quote -- mike pompeo was among administration officials who listened in on the july 25th phone call between president trump and ukrainian president zelensky, a senior state department official said monday. the disclosure that ties the state department more closely to the house impeachment inquirinq. mr. pompeo's participation hasn't been previously reported. last week a state department official disputed a contention in a complaint filed under federal whistle-blower laws by a central intelligence agency officer, that another official listened in on the call. joining our call, juanita tolliver, campaign director at the center for america progress action fund.
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it would seem friday's subpoenas for mike pompeo may have shaken loose some disclosures, maybe some recognition from the sittings secretary of state. i mean, let's just hit pause and let this sink in. if we don't get beyond the two breaking developments, that is okay with me. the secretary of state, the personal lawyer subpoenaed just 30 minutes argue for documents and last few minutes "wall street journal" reporting that the phone call at the center of the complaint, the phone call at the center of donald trump's impeachment inquiry was one that mike pompeo listened in a. >> everyone was in on this. if pompeo was on the call and heard that overture to zelensky, i'm now asking the question, did he order the memo toss misclassified? did he take the next steps to cover this up? how far down does this go? we heard giuliani in his
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ramblings saying i only acted at the order of state department. trump offered you have giuliani's services, but now state department is in this. who will come up next? whose names will we see next? we have seen through the indicators of who house intel is subpoenaing, and how they have lined up their depositions, they're expecting to uncover more information. john heilman, you flagged this report that mike pompeo was among the administration officials wholand in on the july 25th phone call between president trump and ukrainian president. let me just read from the whistle-blower complaint about how that call played in. this is from the whistle-blower. in the course of my official duties i received information from multiple u.s. government officials that the president of the united states is using the power of his office to solicit interference from a foreign country in the 2020 election. this interference includes,
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among other things pressuring a foreign country to investigate one of the main political rivals, the president's personal lawyer, rudy giuliani is a center figure, ag barr appears in this effort as well. we know from the notes of the call that the white house released that donald trump said, i need a favor, though. and went on. so the white house has corroborated the part of the whistle-blower complaint that says that trump was solising foreign interference. we now know that the sitting secretary of the state heard the president solicit election interference. >> secretary of state, department of justice, these are like big agencies, the important ones, right? along with the treasury, are the ones -- the pantheon where titans have sat. we are now talking about a scandal that's enveloping the
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president and two of his top cabinet secretaries. it's worth pausing as he head into impeachment land and the story which will subsume everything else over the course much the next three months. when watergate happened, thinking back on it now, part of the epic quality of it is there was this rogues gallery that emerged. trump has had a lot of rogues around him a lot time, but which rogue becomes central? we now see rudy giuliani, mime pompeo in the middle of this los angeles. these are the people who now, it looks like, where the focus will be, these people will all be called up to testify, publicly, privately, they'll all be subpoenaed, asked a lot of questions, and we're going to start to think of them as vice president ago any, in nixon's case, but the gordon liddys, the
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howard hunts, that are retolent of everything that was so tragic and so despicable, we're starting to get a sense of who the dramatis personas are. it goes back to what rick said earlier, this notion that pompeo is among many who have been pointed to as various times as the adult supervision, and then you find out, no, he was actually on the call. it doesn't just speak to bad behavior, but this notion, this idea that there are any adults in the room around this president that have any real effect on him. i'm not even sure they're trying think sometimes mike pompeo was nothing but a cheerleader for president trump. it's one of the fixes that i think will be found bankrupt whether this is all over.
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if the "wall street journal" is reporting this is a source close to pompeo disclosing that mike pompeo listened in while donald trump asked the president of ukraine to investigate joe biden? we not only have a president -- i think some things about trump we have become used to hearing. we're used to hearing him mobbed up, on his cell phone with rudy giuliani asking to cover up the porn star, or slip some, you know, money to michael cohen, or go float this on hannity and sanitize it with the base. we are not used to hearing an american secretary of state listening in on a call where a foreign leader is asked to dirty up a political opponent. what did he do the day after? what has mike pompeo done -- >> contemporaneous news. the other things, in addition to just the personalities knocking down these dominos, is all of them will be sources of evidence. that's why i have people close to pompeo giving him up.
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people are all trying to protect themselves now. the great lesson is you don't get on the trump train and stay clean. if you came into the white house -- >> i'm looking at -- [ laughter ] >> that's right. >> what happens to you? >> everything he touches. >> everything trump touches dies. one of the these to be kept in mind here, these are not staff, they are not grownups. they are not adults in the room. they are not guardrails. they are coconspirators at this point. >> yes. >> that's what mike pompeo is, unless he breaks now, tells the truth and comes out, he's in the same pool. >> but to answer your question directly, you asked the question, what did he do the next day? he kept coming into work propping up donald trump. that's what he's done. every day since this day, since this occurs until today, mike pompeo has been going back to work, with full knowledge of this phone call, having participated, he's been showing
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up doing the work of donald trump. >> let's back up one fact pattern. after we went offer the air on friday, the news broke that kurt colker had resigned. he was an american diplomat working on u.s./ukrainian issues. he resigned. we don't know exactly why, but what is the difference between what volker knew and what pompeo knew and did. >> nothing. they're both involved. they're going to be asked about, any records or e-mails. >> why does one -- the headlines u.s. special envoy resigned. why does one resign because of exposure our shame and the other thing he can run for senate. >> volkers name came up in the complaint. >> who did he work for? >> he worked for trump. he worked for the federal government -- >> and pompeo. >> ding ding ding.
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>> at the time it wasn't the same kind of information. given what we know about pompeo and the actions he didn't take. he should have raised an alarm the second he heard trump talking to zelensky about you trying to kneecap joe biden. >> i know just enough about the law to be dangerous, but i'm also from california, where the wildfire, the wind hitches and they take out entire towns. this wildfire seems to have shifted right over pompeo's head. >> one thing could be volker is signaling himself as available as a witness. once you resign, it's difficult to keep the president from trying to prevent him from testifies. i expect we'll be listening to the former special envoy from ukraine in the future, and the distinction between he and
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pompeo, at least now, is that his lawyers will be taking him to congress in an effort to cooperate. you know, congress has used a very smart strategy here with both pompeo and with giuliani. these initials subpoenas are just for documents. you can't avoid turning over those documents, claiming a fifth amendment privilege to avoid incriminating yourself. you have to turn over the documents. that law is well established. prosecutors will use this sort of a strategy first obtaining the documents, then looking them over before deciding who and how to over, or rather to subpoena for testimony. so i think you're right. the direction of the fire has changed. it is dead set over pompeo's head. he has a lot to explain. the big question is whether he'll try to save himself now. >> let me reset this breaking news from "wall street journal," which has done a lot of incredible reporting on this
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story, reporting just a few moments ago that secretary of state mike pompeo was among the administration officials who listened in on the july 25th phone call from president trump and president zelensky. it's a disclosure that ties the state department more closely to the house impeachment inquiry. mr. pompeo as participation hands been previously reported. last week a state official disputed the contention, but another top state department terrible listened in on the call. so it wasn't the person who was fingered initially. it was america's secretary of state, juanita. >> supposed to handle diplomatic relations, supposed to keep the president in line to not make statements like this, but what we have seen is he, similar to barr and to most people in this administration dedicate their full-time service no to the u.s.
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citizens, about you to protecting trump at all costs. >> let me read a bit more on the phone call that pompeo sat and listened on. make the same disclosure will tell us what he did after he heard the president say this. donald trump initiated or asked the ukrainians to initiate or continue an investigation into the activities of former vice president joe biden and his son hunter biden. on the call he listened in on, he didn't say anything or do anything about, donald trump asked the ukrainians to assist in reportedly uncovering the allegations of russian interference in the 2016 election on this nated in ukraine. mike pompeo, you guys, america's secretary of state, i don't know checking his texting while the american president asked a foreign leader to assist in purportedly uncovering the allegations of russian interference in 2016, originated in ukraine.
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we have tom bossert at the beginning of the show, pleading in an almost emotional way, john heilman, to the presidents who seems to be talking through tv is the only way to do it, to stop it with the ukrainian hoax. we now now our country's secretary of the state listened to trump repeat this conspiracy theory, and to our knowledge, do nothing. >> it's one of the things i think people have learned over time with trump, is that to challenge him with facts, to tell him to stop, to tell him that you have to get off this issue, this obsession, this conspiracy theory, it does not work. b, it impedes your progress towards greater power. one thing we know about pomp on, is he's been an artful, skillful, successful player of the inside game. he was not one of the original coterie of the trump campaign. he wound his way in from congress into the cia, then into
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this job, and has steadily risen. most of the people who gained tracti traction? trump's world has been cut down. pompeo has not put a foot wrong in donald trump's view. we don't know what was going through hi mind. it would be fascinating to find out, but one of the things would be i'm not going to tell this guy to get off this crazy conspiracy theory. you tell this guy that, that's how you find yourself off the train. at a minimum, you know that pompeo is not going to be a truth teller, because a truth teller to donald trump is the way you lose your job. you get your knees cut out from under you. >> and the date of the call i think was within ten days that pompeo was to be rumored to be both secretary of state and -- >> yes. >> so maybe helping the president ask a foreign leader to dirty up joe biden, lie about
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russian interference and meet or speak with two people the president named explicitly as hen personal envoys, rudy giuliani and bill barr is how do you it. we've just been handed more breaking news. we'll tell you all about it on the other side. news. we'll tell you all about it on the other side along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. with chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting. chantix reduces the urge so when the day arrives, you'll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. when you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. stop chantix and get help right away if you have changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions, seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking, or life-threatening allergic and skin reactions. decrease alcohol use.
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i feel like i'm being pinked nbc news ha confirmed what "new york times" reported about 26 minutes ago that president trump has asked another foreign leader, this time the prime minister of australia to help investigate his conspiracy theories around the origins of the now complete over and shuttered mueller investigation. president trump pushed the australian prime minister to help ag barr to gather information that president trump
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hopes will discredit the mueller investigation. the white house restricted access to the call's transcript to a small group of the president's aides, one of the officials said, an unusual decision similar to the handling of a july call with the ukrainian president that's at the heart of the house democrats, impeachment inquiry into mr. trump. like that call with the -- prime minister morris of australia, shows the extent to which mr. trump has for the attorney general in his goal, and that he see it as a potential way to gain leverage over america's closest allies. first of all, the mueller investigation is over. we should point on that donald trump's approval -- he's going to mitt it by the end of impeachment, but this is another example of two threads of trump-ism, willingness to corrupt the entire executive
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branch, to use barr as a human shield, two, more than just a shield from incoming, willingness to weaponize u.s. foreign relations to do political damage to his political opponents. they are attempting to extortopponents. >> they are attempting to extort foreign leaders to give dope on their political opponents, to leverage that relationship. because do me a favor has a meaning. there is a quid pro quo with that line right there. and it didn't have to say the exact words. that is the favor. this pressure on the australians, there are a whole variety of trade negotiations, et cetera, this is obvious thug-like behavior. and the old giuliani from 30 years ago would have been putting these bastards in jail and now he is one of them and that is a disappointment to a lot of people. >> bill barr brought this on himself. when he got out in front of the mueller probe and spun what the mueller report said and ran
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interference, he made this calculation in his mind that bill barr said i can pull out who will get things for me. you fast forward and trump is randomly picking up the phone to call any number of foreign leaders and say bill barr will do this for me. he has done it once before. he will do it once again. bill barr is laying in the bed he made. >> doj has been trying to lay low i think, trying to point to other cabinet officials as having more exposure than they do even though donald trump asked leader of ukraine to work with bill barr, bill barr saying i didn't talk to him. this lays it right at bill barr's feet right at the feet of the bill barr justice department that unlike jeff sessions, who sort of yielded to department norms, recused himself from the russia probe, william barr was happy, happy to put doj into
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service as donald trump's not just political shield, but political weapon. >> you know, he really has been willing to be the weapon. and i have to confess i'm a little bit confused about why the president feels the need to discredit a report that both he and his attorney general told us disprove the notion that there had been any collusion or any obstruction. and yet here they are trying to discredit that. i think for now we've seen the president mention bill barr in these two phone calls that we know of. barr released a statement staying he was angry about the first call, not angry that he has resigned and taken very serious steps to separate himself from the conduct. i suspect it won't be very long before something comes forward and we learn more about this attorney general's involvement because he has been the president's man from the get go. he is in fact using doj resources to engage in this
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ongoing investigation that seeks to discredit the mueller report perhaps to try to refute the unanimous conclusion of the 17 agencies in the u.s. intelligence community that it was russia that was responsible for the interference in the 2016 election. barr is running it through the investigation and he is in the president's hip pocket. >> what is the motive here? you were an investigator. and i can't get to william barr's motive. what is in it for him to participate in the krupg of u.s. foreign policy? what is in it for barr to lay down the once great justice department, service of donald trump by his own statementsinte with foreign leaders? >> this is i think one of the most perplexing part of the issues that surround bill barr. it is vedifficult to understand
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motive. on the one hand prosecutors don't have to prove a motive, that is never an element of a criminal prosecution. but here i think that we really crave an answer to that question. this is a former attorney general, he is a retread, this is his second tour of duty as attorney general. one would have hoped that he would have honored the traditions of doj and instead he seemed willing at every level to fritter away the integrity difference of the justice department and we're left really wondering what any possible reasoning behind that could be. he has long been a staunch supporter of this notion of a powerful executive, a powerful president. it is difficult to contemplate that anyone could think that those ideas are valid when we see the xm x. ample of the excesses of the trump administration. if anything one would hope anyone with integrity and thoughtfulness about our form of government and hopes that it would survive and be strong would be backing off of this notion of a strong executive.
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but that is where barr has been and continues to be. >> and john heilemann, when you look at bill barr's conduct, it is consistent in this tour of duty if you will, but it does not add up in terms of motive. donald trump said in an interview with you during the campaign, i think there was a terrorist attack somewhere and you said where will he turn to and he said me and my big brain. he doesn't give a bleep about the country and he thinks he is smarter than anybody. what is he doing? >> the one thing that we know about him, this is the get in my way. what he needs, he doesn't think needs anybody's intelligence or anybody's knowledge or instincts. those are the things that he thinks are flawless about himself. what he thinks needs is muscle. he liked the idea that bobby
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kennedy because john kennedy's muscle. he likes the idea that eric holder was barack obama's muscle, the idea of having a roy kohn. and he got it with barr. to this moment as we sit here, the most naked gra tee tuesday and successful act of raw thugs political power in the whole span of the frud was what bill barr did over the mueller report. this was a breath taking thing where he just decided i'm going to -- i have no concern for institutional parameters or restraints, i'm going to act as a political actor to cover my boss and i don't care if anybody likes me, i don't care how much criticism i receive, i don't care if my entire reputation is flushed down the toilet with everybody who is a serious person. i don't care. i'm going to win this battle at cost. made is what he did when he lid
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about the mu lied about the mueller report and he won that fight. and trump loves that idea rkt, somebody who doesn't care about thinking but winning. >> let me challenge the idea of winning. sessions took a different view about the department and its norms and don mcgahn who participated in the mueller report that barr trashed. it kept him from being indicted or coming on the other side of the line of obstruction. it will be william barr and whoever replaced don mcgahn who will get him impeached. >> and now it appears that -- you are asking the question before what role did i think bill barr was playing in donald trump's life. it may be that thank god for poetic justice that the best laid plans of mice and men and all of unintended consequences that it turns out that the gooey who saved donald trump in the mueller report turns out to be part of his undoing. >> and the democrats in congress seem to be greatly assisted by the speed with which trump and his administration keep revealing their misconduct. >> every single day.
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as we have been on this show, what, three breaking news moments in an hour. and if it keeps up this pace -- it was such a good show. and if it keeps up this pace, you are doing the job for house democrats already. we'll have more staffers in the white house and the administration at large who recognize that everyone is in on this coming forward if for no other reason than self protection. >> it has been a whirlwind hour. we didn't get to anything that we were going to. but let me recap what we did tell you about. the breaking news just since we sat down, news that trump's personal attorney rudy giulianis has been subpoenaed for documents from the "wall street journal" breaking a few minutes later, news that trump's secretary of state mike pompeo was himself listening on that
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july 25th call with ukraine. the one in which donald trump said do me a favor, ukraine. see if you can investigate and dirty up the bidens. so it is a story every news outlet is now racing to match. finally another blockbuster report in the "new york times," another request to another foreign leader, the australian prime minister this time to investigate trump's conspiracy theories for his own political gain. tim. >> a lot to digest. i'll just say in bill barr's favor is that around the issue of motive, he said about the first call to ukraine, he didn't know anything about it. it may be he knew nothing about australia. but that again is the danger of trump. he pulls you into his muck. and bill barr might have thought he would sit outside of this process. but we still don't know if he is drekts directly culpable for anything trump said. so he should get a bit of a pass
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until further evidence comes along. >> but didn't trump say barr you need to trump to australia? >> and if bill barr is having a grumpy afternoon nap, he can call his friend donald trump, put him in the middle of the ukraine story. >> he did. but that doesn't mean that he will be found culpable. >> and irony is that all these people around trump, sekulow, p will burn them all down. he will accepted them all to jail. >> they mean nothing to him. >> all right. would i o we're out of time. thank you for rolling through that hour with us. "mtp daily" with katy tur in for chuck starts now. ♪


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