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tv   MSNBC Live With Hallie Jackson  MSNBC  October 7, 2019 7:00am-8:01am PDT

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are in luck because this friday good news ruhle will be viewers' choice all morning long. this week, tweet me, instagram me if you've got suggestions about a great girl in your life. that wraps us up this hour. i'm stephanie ruhle. coming up right now more news with hallie jackson. >> thank you. and as we come on the air right now, new developments this morning on three different front. first, breaking news that could put americans one step closer to seeing the president's tax returns. with the judge dismissing the president's suit to try to stop them from being revealed. we're live at the white house with the president's next move. and joined by one of the lawmakers in the center of that tax fight. second and more importantly to our allies around the world, the extraordinary overnight shift in u.s. foreign policy and the new fallout this morning, including from one of the president's closest friends, excoriating his announcement to move troops out of syria. >> i'm not making myself clear
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how short-sighted and irresponsible this decision is. >> the furious reaction from the region and republicans in a moment. and as if all that weren't enough on a monday morning, a second whistle-blower has now come forward. this one with firsthand knowledge apparently of the president's controversial call with the leader of ukraine. a top national security official who just signed a letter about the whole thing will join us. we've got a team of reporters ready to go covering every angle of the developing stories and i want to start with hans nichols at the white house. a lot of directions we could go here but let's start with the judge's decision that the president turn over his tax returns. even with that, this is going to be tied up in appeals for a while, right? walk us through that and what the judge had to say. >> reporter: so it was a federal district court judge. the appeal will be in the second court of appeals. trump's attorneys almost immediately after losing this case at the district level indicated they wanted to appeal to the appellate level. we don't know how far it will go beyond this. the basic theory of the administration's case is the president cannot be subject to
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criminal investigations, criminal inquiries while he is president. the thing is that the district attorney in new york doesn't buy that and he's not under the department of justice's control. you have this ruling from the federal district court judge where he was quite firm in rejecting this argument. i'm going to read one of the quotes for you, because this court finds such aspects of such a doctrine repugnant to the nation's governmental structure and constitutional value. it abstains from adjudicating this dispute and dismisses the president's suit. just to give a big overview, hallie, and i know you and i have talked about this a lot, but what the district attorney wants is documents to he can get the tax returns for president donald trump to figure out if any state laws were broken in the payment to stormy daniels, the trump administration eventually admitted they paid. the question is was there any violation at the state law level and that gives jurisdiction to
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look into this and now the white house is still trying on appeal to prevent the eight years of tax returns from becoming public. >> hans nichols watching that and many other stories at the white house, including the stories, more breaking news this morning, an extraordinary shift in u.s. foreign policy. the u.s. planning to pull forces out of northern syria to clear the way for turkey to move in. that bombshell dropping overnight from the white house. it effectively gives turkey the green light to go after kurdish forces who the u.s. has been fighting alongside and have long been considered our reliable partners in syria to beat isis. one of his closest allies is hammering now as being impulsive, even as the president defends himself on twitter saying it's time to get out of endless wars. bill neely is in london. walk us through what we can expect in the next 48 hours. as i understand, we're hearing
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more now from the turkish president about u.s. force movement. >> reporter: as we speak, it appears that u.s. special forces troops are pulling out of observation posts in northeast syria. without question, this is a betrayal, and what it could be is a blood bath and a new phase in this dirty war. it all depends on whether turkey treats this as a full-scale invasion or something more limited. let's say an in kurgz of, say, 20 miles or so. u.s. officials seem to have little or no idea what the imminent turkish offensive will look like. either way, the kurds are not going to lay down their weapons and run. remember, these are mortal enemies. it was only the 1,000 or so u.s. troops in that area that prevented the turks moving in and trying to kill the kurds that they regard as terrorists. and of course the kurds have been america's strongest ally in the fight against isis in that region. but look, whatever happens,
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there's no doubt the kurds are furious, they've called this a stab in the back by the u.s. their spokesman telling nbc news not only was it shocking, it was unexpected. all the sacrifices we made to defeat isis will be destroyed. and he's predicting that isis will rejuvenate. so real anger, and don't forget the kurds have about 10,000 or so isis fighters in their prisons. what will happen to them? we don't know. but the white house is basically wiping its hands of them. but hallie, i have to say i think the bigger damage here may be to the reputation of the u.s. which allies in the middle east or elsewhere will fully trust the word of president trump in the future. because number one, he didn't even mention the kurds in his statement and earlier this year he said there would be an economic price to pay if turkey touched the kurdish fighters. now he's basically betraying
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them and abandoning them. and he also not only criticized european allies, he appears to have made this move without consulting, for example, brittain, which also has special forces troops there. an extraordinary development. >> bill, i imagine we're going to be getting much more throughout the day on this. please stay close to a camera. i want to bring in the former u.s. ambassador to iraq under president obama, chris hill. ambassador, let's remind people here, this exactly move is why in part former defense secretary jim mattis stepped down last year. it's about brett mcgurk, somebody you know well. muck gurk is tweeting this morning about what a bad decision he thinks it is. he said the president made a similar position. tonight is a sad replay but seems even worse since the u.s. had convinced these kurdish forces we planned to stay. your reaction? >> first of all, i think as
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brett points out and most people know this, that if we're talking about a 20, 30 in kurgz, this is not only where the kurdish forces are, this is where the kurds live. this is their home in northern syria. so it seems that it would behoove the u.s., who is armed and equipped to advise the kurds who have been the main element in the force against isis to figure out how this can work. and there's clearly no effort to coordinate anything. there doesn't seem to be any diplomacy. all we hear about it is from a presidential tweet. where's the secretary of state? where's the state department? where is the explanation for this policy? i don't usually say this, but i think lindsay graham is right here. of course he'll probably be wrong tomorrow. he's right today. >> i want to share with our viewers what senator graham who you just invoked had to say this morning, by the way, calling in to fox news which we know is a network the president likes to look at in the morning.
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here he is. >> is this a policy you can support? >> absolutely not. this is an impulsive decision by the president that has undone all the gains we've made. i hope i'm making myself clear how short-sighted and irresponsible this position is in my view. >> you seem to think that senator graham is correct. we have seen the president just at the end of last year back off of a similarly planned prove. do you think that the pressure from senator graham and others could be enough to change his mind or are those guardrails gone and this is it? >> well, obviously we're missing some guardrails and that's why we get a lot of this impulsiveness. but yeah, he could change his mind tomorrow if enough senators come forward and hold to their positions. i love what senator graham had to say today, but i have no idea what he's going to say tomorrow. and by the way, he was playing golf with the president just a week ago when this was all
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entrained, he knew about it. what did he tell the president at that time? so look, there's so many moving pieces. when you move one element in the syrian equation, a lot of other things move. where does this leave the iranian forces? how are they going to be advising? what is their relationship? does this mean that the turks have decided that asad is there for the duration and they want to kind of do away with the kurds, start bringing back sir yens and go back to normal business? very hard to say. and of course the point about isis, we are a long way from completely finishing up that thing. and that thing could rise up at any time, frankly. >> ambassador chris hill, we really appreciate your expertise on such an important and news making morning. thank you very much. we're going to be talking more about this later in the show. but we want to talk more about the jam-packed week on capitol hill with more deadlines and depositions coming up. a second whistle-blower now comes forward. reportedly with firsthand
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knowledge of president trump's phone call with the leader of ukraine. nbc's jeff bennett is on capitol hill. what do we know about the second whistle-blower and where do things go from here? >> reporter: well, i can tell you a number of u.s. diplomats have been called to the hill for their depositions as house democrats continue their impeachment inquiry. there was a scheduled deposition today, but george kent, who is the state department deputy assistant secretary, is not expected to show. so what we expect, what we're tracking really is action on capitol hill tomorrow and friday. tomorrow you've got gordon sond lond, the u.s. ambassador to the european union who was involved in encouraging the ukrainians to open the investigation into the bidens. the orting is that he will show for his deposition tomorrow. and then fry you've got the former ambassador, yo van vich. heading into next week you've got a number of deadlines for document requests that house
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democrats are made of rudy giuliani and the vice president's office and of the white house. a couple of quick things we're watching today. the white house could as early as today send that letter to the house speaker nancy pelosi where they're going to say that they're not going to turn over any documents or cooperate fully unless or until the the house speaker brings a formal impeachment vote to the floor. we've talked about this before. pelosi says the argument is baseless and has no precedent or legal grounding. another thing i'm told is that the nrcc, which is the campaign arm of congressional republicans, they've been out doing a lot of polling, some message testing. they are expecting to hand over the results of that polling to lawmakers today. there's a conference call later this afternoon. so we could see a messaging shift from these members as they try to keep up their defense of president trump. >> kevin mccarthy was just out on fox news and said he doesn't think the second whistle-blower changes the game at all. do you expect that is the line
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we'll be hearing from republicans moving forward at this point? >> yes. because we heard a similar statement from the white house press secretary to that same effect. democrats are already said, though, that the whistle-blower complaint in itself has been deemed credible and that the second whistle-blower, even though he or she reaffirms what the sifrt whistle-blower said, that just having the credible complaint from the first person is ground to move forward on impeachment. having the second person now backing up what the first whistle-blower said works from a political perspective because it dismantles any republican talking point that this is a political hack. >> i want to bring in who served on the department of homeland security under president bush and in the investigation of bill clinton. he is one of 90 former national security officials to sign onto this letter new this morning in support of the anonymous whistle-blower. paul, thank you very much for being on. >> thanks for having me. >> i want to read a bit of an
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excerpt from this letter where you and 89 other people write we applaud the whistle-blower, the one who came out initially, for not only living up to that responsibility but also for using precisely the channels made available by federal for raising such concerns. why sign onto this? >> precisely because the whistle-blower did the right thing and we should reward people with our admiration when they do the right thing. we have lots of people who blow the whistle in the wrong way sometimes. who are leakers, who give aid and comfort to the enemy. this whistle-blower, these two whistle-blowers now, it seems, have done exactly what they should do, follow the procedures that are laid out in the law, which are there not just for their protection, but for our benefit as americans to learn about misconduct within the executive branch. we as american citizens rely on our executive branch to do a lot of things for us and it's important when they do it in
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ways that follow our values to learn about it. >> paul, put on your political hat for me, if you will. because one of the pieces that has been a factor are how other republicans have been responding to this. there are some small cracks in the gop wall of support from people like susan collins, calling the president's china remarks, for example, a big mistake, completely inappropriate to call on the chinese for an investigation of the bidens. you also, though, have other republicans who vigorously defended the president, seeming to struggle a bit to respond. i want to play you some of that. >> we've been going ten minutes and you still can't say whether you think it's right or wrong. >> i don't think it's going to happen. that's why -- i just don't think that's what the president was really saying. >> i doubt if the china comment was serious, to tell you the truth. >> you don't take the president at his words? >> no. >> senator johnson, please, can we please answer the question that i asked you? >> what do you make of the gop response here? >> well, i think that the
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president's defenders are struggling a bit. anybody who is only response is the president didn't mean it, he was just joking, is himself not very seriously addressing the issue. you can watch the president's own words, the tape of him speaking, and there's absolutely no indication at all that he's either joking or trying to wind up the press. he's very seriously requesting china to add itself to ukraine to investigate his major political opponent. and that is fundamentally wrong. >> paul, thank you very much for being on. i appreciate that. we have a lot more show to get to after a lot of show just in these last 16 minutes, including the former vice president saying he was prepared for the president's attacks. so why has joe biden seemed to struggle to respond to the president's onslaught over ukraine? we're talking about a key member of the biden campaign with another 2020 contender, bernie sanders off the trail and recovering from a heart attack. how his health is affecting his
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joe biden's biggest donors huddled over the weekend to strategize about the relentless attacks on the former vice president, his son, his son's dealings with ukraine. bid biden reportedly assured his top backers that his campaign remains on course and he took his case to the "washington post," writing to trump and those who facilitate his abuses of power and all the special
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interests funding his attacks against me, please know i am not going anywhere. you won't destroy me and you won't destroy my family. and come november 2020, i intend to beat you like a drum. while the former vp was writing, his adversaries were talking and they had plenty to say in the anti-biden media blitz. >> he was dragging his son to the two countries that the vice president had primary responsibility for, ukraine and china. >> why did hunter biden get the special deal? why? because he was an expert in ukraine? because he was an expert in energy? >> joining me now is joe biden 2020 deputy campaign manager and communications directors kate bedding field who is in philadelphia for us. kate, thank you for being back on the show. >> thanks for having me. >> let me start with some reporting from my colleague, who reports that long-time confidants of the former vp say that he was caught off guard by how quickly, how early these
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attacks against joe biden materialized. was the campaign unprepared for this from the president and his allies? >> no, of course not. and i think the campaign and joe biden have been very aggressive in responding. joe biden has given multiple speeches on the magnitude of the crisis and what donald trump is doing to shred our constitution. he's taken questions from reporters. on friday he spoke to reporters and said that donald trump is presiding over the most corrupt administration in modern american history. so i think there's no question that biden has been incredibly aggressive about taking this on. and nobody got into this race making a tougher case against donald trump and taking the case more directly to donald trump than joe biden. and that's what he's continued to do. but one thing i wanted to point out, and we love mike, but there's not a single voter in that story. there's been a lot of process coverage over the weekend and all i see are lobbyists and strategists. no one has talked to the voters. because if you talk to the voters, what you get is yesterday's wisconsin poll, which showed joe biden beating donald trump by 9 points in
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wisconsin, a state that donald trump admittedly has said himself he has to win. so i think there is no question voters know who the person is to take the fight to donald trump, and i think that that's what biden has been successfully doing. >> let me just follow up here, because you talk about how the campaign has been aggressive. that's fair. you talk about how the vice president has taken questions, the former vp, from reporters on the trail. what he arguably has not been is explicit about specifically his son hunter and everything that the president is alleging, the unfounded claims against him. for example, in the "washington post" report he writes, and we read it, he talks about he will not good after my family, he will not take down my family or destroy my family. but he doesn't get explicit about hunter himself. why is that, kate? >> he has. he's been asked and he said, look, every single independent outlet that's looked into this has said there was no issue of wrongdoing here. and you know in 2014 the white house cleared hunter serving on the board. so he has absolutely been asked
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that question and he's answered it many times. but what he's not going to do is play by donald trump's rule book. overnight we saw an ap headline that says that rudy giuliani, while they were trying to dig up dirt, they were also trying to make a buck off of ukrainian natural gas contracts. who was surprised to learn that? so i think what we see is that they are going to continue to try to change the subject and we're not going to let them do that. we're going to hold them accountable and remind voters what kind of administration donald trump is running and how it impacts their day-to-day lives. >> so let's talk about those voters. you invoked them and talked about the poll in wisconsin which does show our candidate on top. there's also new polls in iowa showing elizabeth warren is actually the front-runner there. when you are looking at this landscape of polls, are you concerned from the surge for candidates and the slight slump that we've seen in some states for joe biden is an indication that perhaps the president's attacks are working? >> no, not at all.
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i mean, you talk about polling. so morning consult poll over the weekend, 85% of democratic voters said that this issue was not going to have any impact on their vote. but also, if you look at polling broadly, you have the poll in south carolina this weekend that shows joe biden up 29 points. and he was up 21 points in south carolina the last time that poll was taken. >> we're showing that now on the screen. >> thank you. if you look at who is building -- >> i know you want to talk about building coalitions and we know that the former vice president has put a lot of effort in south carolina. that is a state he is expected to do well. i'm almost out of time but i want to get you on a little bit of debate prep. that's coming up in a week, week and a half or so, how much is the broader landscape often these attacks against the former vp factoring into his debate prep moving forward, if at all? >> i think what you're going to see from him is what you've seen from him on the campaign trail, which is he's not going to hesitate to make the case against donald trump. the number one thing that democratic primary voters are looking for is the person who
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can beat donald trump and they believe that joe biden is the person that can do it. so you're going to see him continue to be tough and continue to make the case and continue to demonstrate where he's the person who is going to beat donald trump like a donald trump in november of 2020. which donald trump himself seems to believe, given his preoccupation with all things biden. >> kate, appreciate you coming back on the show. thank you. coming up here in just a minute, president trump insists he did nothing wrong by looking for the damaging info about joe biden from foreign allies. so we're talking about one former white house chief of staff who served three republican presidents who says the trump administration crossed the line. well i didn't choose metastatic breast cancer. not the exact type. not this specific mutation. but i did pick hope... ...and also clarity... knowing i have a treatment that goes
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back home in vermont after the heart attack last week in vegas. he is resting and so is his campaign as the senator prepares for next week's debates. his only event schedule ed as he recoup rates. he's tweeting he's more determined than ever to fight, starting with a chain finance reform yesterday. voters are wondering how the oldest democrat in the field will fare in the race. >> shack, you've been talking about not just the sanders campaign, but voters as well. tell us what you're hearing on
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both front. >> reporter: that's right, well, we know right now senator sanders is resting and home recovering from the heart attack he sustained. we do know there are no public appearances that he has on his schedule until the october 15 debate. i got to speak to his campaign co chair, neen na turner who is out on the trail for him. listen to what she said on the latest about his condition. >> bernie sanders is fine, we saw what dr. james sanders had to say about her husband when her statement came out with how he was joking with the nurses and doctors, he was directing tweets. he is is raring to go as he always has been. >> reporter: and what you're seeing from his campaign is that while the senator is down, his campaign is trying to show that the operation is still full in force. you saw that this morning with the tweet that senator sanders we leased from his official account. he called the president's announcement extremely
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responsible and likely to result in mois suffering. he also went of the democratic national convention a little bit saying that it will ban all corporate money for that convention. that's something that would have an impact even before he were to become in the white house if he did make it that far, it would impact as soon as he became the nominee. so hallie, it's very clear this campaign trying to show that he's still out there and mobilized, despite him resting and recovering from this heart attack. >> shaq brewster live for us in vermont. i want to bring in former senior adviser to the hillary clinton campaign. adrian, listen, let me talk sort of microand then macro here. this is an important time for bernie sanders campaign. he is sort of trying to to get out with elizabeth warren in some of the crucial states, looking for fundraising, neck in neck with her. how do you think this next week
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and a half plays out for sanders if he's staying at home resting and shows up back at the debate? >> these situations are not ideal when a candidate is not feeling well and they have a health issue because it keeps them off the campaign trail. >> you had that experience with hillary clinton when she had the fainting spell? >> we did and i will also say that i think -- many people, especially on the right were saying, oh, hillary clinton is really sick. we're not seeing that same sort of per son na for bernie sanders. but nits never -- it's never ideal there's no replacing the candidate. but it also underscores the affect the top three leading democratic candidates in the primary are all over the age of 70. i think this may -- i think voters may take a look at this and say maybe there is an opening for somebody who is diverse, who is younger, who can at least come into like the top four or five. because right now we are seeing a solid race between these top three candidates whoever over the age of 70. when it comes to the die namtics
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of the race, i think that is where the most important change could be. >> interesting, so you're actually getting into the macro piece that i wanted to talk to you about. the issue of age for some of the front running candidates who are the top three over 70. senator sanders a little bit ago when he was asked about this, he called it age oicism. i want to play that. >> maybe you and vice president biden are too old for this race. what do you think of that? >> i think that's kind of ageism, to tell you the truth. and i think what we are trying to do, all of us are trying to do is end discrimination in this country against women, against minorities, against the lgbt community and i think ageism as well. >> and listen, this is a sensitive thing to talk about because there are people in this race, people who are over the age of 70 who would say i am just as qualified and can do just as good a job as anybody else younger and argumentably could do better because i have more life experience. these questions coming up about
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health and age, are they ageism or valid? >> i do think bernie sanders has a valid point here when he says i think it's ageism, because he is very energetic on the campaign trail, as is elizabeth warren and joe biden. these are three people over the age of 70 who are rocking the campaign trail in terms of energy and enthusiasm. however, in the minds of voters that's where it really matters. sometimes you don't always see this in the polling, but when voters see a health issue from a candidate they oftentimes think, i'm not sure if this is -- i want to make sure i get somebody in there who is going to be healthy and be able to serve to the fullest extent. that's where the real concern might be, what do voters think about this. >> it's always a pleasure to have you on set in person. >> thank you, hallie. >> president trump says he had the right to try and get info from foreign countries about his political rivals, but perhaps unsurprisingly, that is not holding water with ten former white house chiefs of staff. surveyed by "the new york times" who say this is a first. andy carr, the longest serving chief of staff over the last six
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decades tells the "times," i served three presidents in the white house and don't remember even hearing any speculation to consider asking for such action. andy carr, former chief of staff under president george w. bush and msnbc political analyst joins us now. thanks for being back on the show. >> good to be with you. >> you told the "times" you can't remember any even speculation of this happening. if it had, would you have allowed it under your watch? >> no, secretary jim baker, who was i think the best chief of staff any president, president reagan, he would have done a slam dunk on this if it came to his desk and i hope i would have done the same thing. so no, this wouldn't be something that i would even have permitted people to talk about. >> we earlier in the show talked about the republican response to some of this. on the one hand, people like for example senator susan collins, who are concerned about the president calling on china to investigate the former vp. on the other hand, you have people like senator ron johnson, jim jordan, for example, who are defending the president.
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are republicans cohesive enough in their messaging here? do you think that's going to help or hurt the president? >> well, i think it's the president's duty not to speak in high per bowly. i took his comment about china frivolous, i didn't see that as a serious request. >> i don't know many people who read it the same way, because the president seemed awfully serious when he made those remarks. >> i think the president speaks far too much. he wants you to come in to see the freak show. so i don't always agree with what he says and how he says it. i wish he would be more careful with the language he uses, the tweets he sends out. but i do think that an impeachment inquiry is warranted. clearly lines have been crossed. i don't know if that's an impeachable offense yet. we don't know yet, because most people in congress have already made up their mind when they haven't seen any evidence. i want people to calm down, take a look at it.
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don't call a molehill a mountain. they tend to do that. there's hyperbole on both sides. this is a serious process. i want to help the president do his job because he's our president. i also don't want him to be distracted by others who are trying to undermine him. and i do want the impeach process if it's going to go forward do be done deliberately and see where it leads based on the facts. don't make it about politics. >> well, let's talk about some of those facts because there's now a second whistle-blower who has come forward who can apparently corroborate much of the claims made by the first whistle-blower. do you believe that this bolsters st democrats' concerns about president trump and the controversial call with the ukrainian leader in july? >> without having seen the true evidence of this whistle-blower, yes, i believe that it has justified an investigation. i'm not sure yet that it justifies impeachment, but it does justify an investigation,
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and let the facts take us there. i kind of wish everyone would just step back, stop some of the hot rhetoric that is out there on both sides, and see where this takes us. but i also want the president to have the courage to do the job that he's asked to do right now. look it, he's got some tough decisions to make. i happen to be worried about the decision he just made with regard to syria and turkey. but the world is a dangerous place. i want the president focused on his job and i want everybody around the president to help him do his job and not be distracted. >> andy carr, appreciate you being on the show. thank you. back to the breaking news, by the way, that we were talking about just a minute ago, a judge recording president trump to turn over eight years of tax returns. texas democratic congressman, a member of the ways and means committee joins me next to talk through that and the president's response just a minute ago. a quick check of the markets. let's take a look at the dow. wall street, you can see the dow down about 100. watching a new development from the white house, the announcement that this thursday the president's top trade
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responding. look at this. he's tweeting the radical left democrats have failed on all front, so now they are pushing local new york city and state prosecutors to go get president trump. a thing like this has never happened to any president before, not even close. worth noting that most presidents do release their tax returns of their own accord during their campaign. we're also just getting in now in the last 30 seconds that the second circuit court of appeals has granted a temporary stay. it means that the president's tracks preparer does not have to hand over the tax documentsly 1:00 p.m. today. we are just sifting through this given that the development are happening literally as we speak. i want to bring in somebody who is at the center of the tax fight, who sits on the house ways and means commit. congressman, thank you for being back on the show. >> good to be with you. >> nour commit has been trying to get ahold of these very same tax returns. does this help your case?
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>> well, i'm pleased, given the slow moving nature of the house case, that the authorities in new york city have moved forward and this is an important ruling. keep in mind that the president's claim in this lawsuit that the judge rejected was that disclosure of his tax returns would do him ireperable harm. i'm fwlglad the judge rejected that. the president also claimed that as president, not only can he not be indicted for criminality, he could not even be investigated. and fortunately the ruling here is to reject all of his claims. at the same time as you just pointed out, he's already gotten a stay of the order. that's been the problem with the house action and with other actions in new york state. this president will fight to the finish to be sure that no one can find out what might have
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gone on in his tax returns. >> let me ask you about that fight. because i have been personally asking first candidate trump and then president trump for literally the last four years about when and whether he's going to release his tax returns. he hasn't done so yet. this fight is likely going to be tied up in appeals courts for a protracted amount of time. realistically, when do you think you would have any hope -- and let's get down to brass tax here -- of actually seeing some of these numbers? will president trump be out of office at that point, whether it's two years or six or whatever? >> there's a real danger in that given the delay in initiating the house action. i don't think we'll see them this year. however, there is one new development that you're familiar with, and that is that apparently there is a whistle-blower at the irs who has been going through procedures. that could change things. you know, out at sporting events, football games, in airports and at concerts, we see the if you see something, say something.
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and that's what these courageous patriotic whistle-blowers have been doing about ukraine, and apparently here also. we need to listen to them and what they say, especially about the endangerment the president has caused in his actions concerning ukraine and china. >> you are referencing of course a whistle-blower in the irs sort of treasury field, separate from those now two whistle-blowers that have come forward making allegations about the call, the controversial call with the president and the president of ukraine. in some instances, not allegations, firsthand knowledge of what transpired. let me talk to you about the irs whistle-blower. do you believe that that process is moving forward efficiently and expediently right now or are you concerned that the treasury department is sort of dragging feet on this? >> well, i'm concerned. the treasury department, secretary mnuchin, whose career is starred by having been the campaign finance director for the trump campaign, has done all he can, i think, to suppress
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this. i questioned him about it last march. the internal revenue service had an opinion within the service that shall means shall and these returns should be disclosed. he ignored that. the irs commissioner is the one who is commanded to release these records. he intervened in that. he said that -- when i questioned him, that he would protect the president and that's what he's been doing instead of protecting the public trust and the national interest in getting these returns. >> before i let you go, congressman, i need to ask you very quickly about the very big news this morning that emerged overnight. the president's decision as it relates to u.s. forces in syria. senator lindsay graham calls this a disaster in the making. he says he will introduce a senate resolution opposing and asking for reversal of this decision. congressman, will anybody in the house, have you heard, do the same on this? and where are you about the president's call? >> well, the president's call is alarming, totally abandoning an ally from an autocrat in turkey,
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just as president trump would be autocrat. i think it has another dimension, though i certainly support the kurds, and that is lindsay graham also said that the biggest lie from the white house was that isis has been defeated. i wouldn't agree with him on that. i think it's the latest lie from the white house and there's probably another one by the time we finish this broadcast. it shows that if senator graham or any of these other republicans with these outlandish explanations to defend the president on ukraine and the fact that he's committed impeachable offenses, if they wanted to speak out, they could speak out and should speak out and be patriots first and republicans second. >> congressman, thank you for coming back on the show with all the news today. and more news, the supreme court starts its new term as we speak from immigration to guy rights to guns. we'll tell you why it's expected to be a blockbuster session. that's next
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newest supreme court justice put a new spin on long standing precedent. justice correspondent pete williams has a look at what we can expect. >> reporter: in one of the term's most important cases the supreme court will decide what's to become of daca. >> the dreamers united will never be defeated. >> the obama era program that lets children of undocumented migrants stay in the u.s. if they were under 16 when their parents brought them here. it now covers more than 700,000 young people, including claudia quinones, a college student who came as a young girl with her mother from bolivia. >> daca traininged my life. i have a social security number, the ability to work and contribute and pay taxes. >> reporter: president trump tried to shut daca down but lower courts blocked the move. in another high profile case the justices will decide whether existing federal law makes it illegal to fire employees because they're gay, lesbian or transgender. gerald lost his county job after
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joining a gay softball league. >> i was fired for being gay. i lost everything. i lost my livelihood. i lost my source of income. i lost my medical insurance. >> reporter: the question, does the civil rights law that bans sex discrimination also apply to sexual orientation? the court will also decide whether states can block religiously affiliated schools from scholarship programs funded with taxpayer money? whether to issue its first ruling on gun rights in nearly a decade and whether to approve new restrictions on the right of access to abortion. the court might take up a battle how the lower college -- a big uncertainty is the health of justice ruth bader ginsburg after recent battles with lung and pancreatic cancers. >> at my age, 86, you have to take it year by year. so i know i'm okay. i was okay this last term. i expect to be okay next term. >> reporter: justice ginsburg says she intends to serve as long as she can devote full
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steam to the job. pete williams, nbc news at the supreme court. coming up in our next hour we'll hear from a key member from the nixon impeachment who thinks democrats should rethink their strategy and widen out their approach to the impeachment inquiry instead of just focusing on ukraine. i was diagnosed with parkinson's. i had to retire from law enforcement. it was devastating. one of my medications is three thousand dollars per month. prescription drugs do not work if you cannot afford them. for sixty years, aarp has been fighting for people like larry. and we won't stop. join us in fighting for what's right. the amazing new iphone has arrived. so has t-mobile's newest signal, now reaching farther than ever before. right now, switch at a t-mobile store and get the new iphone on us! only at t-mobile.
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time now to get a look at what sources are saying, nbc news political reporter alex sidewell joins me.
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you've been digging into susan collins and what this whole impeachment inquiry means for her, right? >> hallie, yes, she's a top target for democrats as they try to win back the senate. successful over four terms as a moderate republican who can win independents and some democrats. that's becoming an increasingly difficult position for her to maintain. my reporting on the ground in maine showed especially with an impeachment battle looming. there's a gop base on one side that wants her more vocal in defending trump and democrats on the other who say she's lost her way and is too cowed by trump, especially after she voted to confirm supreme court justice brett kavanaugh. she's going to have to vote on removing the president, choose one way or another between the two options, danger on both sides for her. >> thanks for that, alex. msnbc live, aimen -- >> it's incredible on the
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domestic front and overseas as well. reactions coming in after developments with the u.s. pulling troops out of syria. i'm in more craig melvin here at msnbc headquarters here in new york but we begin with impeachment battle lines having been drawn. the white house digs in as another whistle-blower comes forward with hints others are waiting in the wings and a growing list of the president's cabinet members getting caught up now in this feimpeachment inquiry. plus growing alarm, and condemnation, republicans, democrats and former members of the trump administration all speaking out forcefully this morning against the decision to pull u.s. troops from syria's northern border with turkey. and uncertainty takes over, that's how "the washington post" describes the growing concern over the state of the 2020 democratic field as the top candidates are facing their own unique struggles. we'll tell you about that. we want to begin this hour as the impeachment inquiry into president trump intensifies, heading into its third week the web of the investigation is now


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