tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC October 9, 2019 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT
campaign. i love doing rallies and extraordinary town meetings and we'll get back into that quite soon. but i want to start off slower and build up and build up and build up. but we're looking forward to a very vigorous campaign. we're starting to do some planning for the debate. >> that is "hardball" for now. all in with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> president trump has indicted himself. >> the drum beat for impeachment gets louder. >> donald trump has violated his oath of office, betrayed this nation and committed impeachable acts. >> as the evidence of corruption and a cover up grows. >> you'd have to ask rudy. >> just how many people knew the ukraine aid was being held up for corrupt purposes but officials looked the other way. then as trump world spins. >> this is regicide by another name. >> inside the democratic strategy for executing the
impeachment inquiry. plus the uproar over facebook's decision to let the trump campaign lie in its ad. and as the bombs begin to drop on the kurds in syria. >> they didn't help us in the sen second world war, with normandy. >> out rage at the president's decision. when all in starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. the president's political position is eroding remarkably quickly. and new fox news poll just out today shows 51%, a majority of registered voters believe trump should not only be impeached but removed as well. 51%. and this is happening because the president's misdeeds are clear and the disputable. we already know president trump corruptly uses power to coerce an occupied country to manufacture dirt on his political opponent.
we know that from documents the president himself has released and from things the president has admitted and from things the president has done in front of us. >> mr. president, what did you hope zelensky would do about the bidens in the phone call? >> i would think if they were honest about it they'd start a major investigation into the bidens. it's a very simple answer. they should investigate the bidens. >> but what we continue to learn every day is the sheer scope of the enterprise and the consciousness of dpilt of nearly everyone involved. this whole enterprise was directed by the president. cnn reports that as early as may two months before his now infamous phone call with the ukrainian president president trump told energy secretary rick perry and two senior state department officials including u.s. ambassador to the eu gordon sondland, to deal with trump's private attorney, rudy giuliani, about planning a meeting with ukraine's president.
if they can satisfy rudy, they can satisfy the president a person familiar with the meeting said. rudy was of course running around trying to manufacture dirt on the president's enemies. the president told the cabinet secretary and two senior state department officials to work on the scheme to seek foreign help, undermine his political rival. and two months later he told the president of ukraine in the same thing. remember in the call notes, i will have mr. giuliani give you a call. all this was happening in such a way people involved knew how wrong it was. it's incredibly important to hold onto that simple fact as the president and his allies try to jedi mind trick, wave it all away and convince everyone what the president did was fine. but it wasn't fine and they knew it wasn't fine. "the washington post" reported last month the president ordered his national chief of staff to hold back that military aid to ukraine passed by both houses. and when the trump administration finally released the military aid american
diplomats were ordered to down-play the decision and trump's initial hold up of release of the funds as an administrative matter. one state department official even wrote in an e-mail and i'm quoting here, keep moving people, nothing to see here. now, nothing to see her is just unbelievably inculpatory. you see consciousness of guilt and awareness by many parties what was happening. that continues to be the theme here. quote, white house officials have told me this information were deeply disturbed by what had transpired in the phone call. well, now today cbs has a different memo from that same whistleblower written after speaking to a white house official after hearing the entirety of that phone call. in the official's view the
president had clearly committed a criminal act. a crime. i just witnessed the president commit a crime. what can you say to that? well the president and his defenders are basically trying two arguments. one that what president trump did was totally fine, and another a nonstop fire hose of ridiculous process claims. kangaroo court, none of that matters because the facts are already in the light. we have them. there are documents and texts and admissions by the president. and i say crime advisably. it was a white house official who works for the president who listened to the phone call that led the whistleblower to write the president had committed a clearly criminal act. the whistleblower also puts one question to rest while raising a whole host of new ones. quote, the standard practice to
produce a word for bird transcript that memorializes the call. in this case it had been released and was produced only in hard copy only. there it is a word for word transcript we don't have. the white house can stone wall, fight on privilege grounds. the one thing we have to see before this is all over is that word for word transcript is trump's call with the ukraine president. the president himself says it's a perfect call. the president himself released the call notes. he's waived any privilege. we must see the perfect call in its complete word for word so we can all marvel on just how perfect it is. let me start right there on that. obviously the president has released the call notes.
do you believe there's an actual word for word transcript of more than what we've seen and do you believe congress should have access to it? >> i believe it exists. i don't know for sure that it does and obviously congress should have a right to that. i don't want to get too bogged down with people thinking if you don't have all the details, all the evidence you can't go forward because i think the president will continue to stonewall, continue the obstruction. i believe we have an extraordinary case to move forward with now. we're not going to stop. we're going to be diligent, but i don't the people to think if we don't get every last detail we can't move forward. >> that was going to be my second question. adam schiff's approach here as well as the other oversight committee chairs is if they want to obstruct, obstruct but we're moving forward and we have sufficient evidence already entered into the record to draw up articles of impeachment.
is that your view? >> it is. and i think what we're seeing is further deflection or distraction not just by the president but by colleagues who are talking about process. they are attacking adam schiff and nancy pelosi on process. it's extraordinary pause if anything the intel committee under adam schiff has been extraordinarily involved with the details following the letter of the law. the whistleblower according to the trump appointed inspector general, the trump appointed head of the intelligence community did everything right, followed the letter of the law. the only entity that's not is the white house and they're the ones complaining about process. the crimes have been committed and they're in public view. >> the president has been insulting and criticizing the whistleblower, leveling all sorts of claims along with his allies. are you worried about the whistleblower being protected
through this process as the law requires? >> my first concern is the safety of the whistleblower. the president using terms like treasonous and traitorous and you know what we do with traitors or what we used to do with them. i believe he's put this whistleblower at risk. that's most important. underneath that but as important to a certain extent is the chilling effect it has on the whistle-blower system as a whole. the intelligence community operates in secrecy. it has to keep us safe, but that only works in an open government. if the whistle-blower system works and the oversight of congress works, he has imperilled all that. two bad things can happen when authorize no whistle blowers, a bad deeds go unknown and unpunished and leaks happen. and when leaks happen, that threatens our sources and methods, it puts people at risk and makes us less safe.
>> when you talk about bad deeds going on and unflagged, i want to ask your response to a story just published but it was just published in ploombering and reports president trump then pressed secretary of state rex tillerson to drop the criminal case it had against an iranian turkish trader and three sources saying the president told rex tillerson to lean on the department of justice to drop this case of a guy who rudy giuliani was representing. rudy giuliani in that same article admitting he may have talked about this with the president. do you worry there are other corrupt abuses of power similar to what has been laid bare in ukraine that are there and have not been flagged to report it? >> i think it's obvious the president never commits a crime once and when it comes to the justice department he thinks he has complete control. the long-term impacts by this president, and we just won't know until it's all over, may
well be an extraordinary damage to the independence and integrity of the justice department. it is autocratic to think the president can tell them who they can and can't prosecute. it is obvious, he has said it publicly and openly he believes he has that power. and when you see stories like this, they're indicative of a president who again thinks he's above the law. >> congressman mike quigley of illinois, thank you. joining me now for more of the president's unlawful behavior, the diplomatic correspondent for "the new york times," explaining how diplomats were urged to play down the release of the funds to ukraine. let me start with you. can you explain that e-mail has just really stuck in my mind, the nothing to see here e-mail. and it remind me i reported on the housing crisis, on baseball during the steroids era, all sorts of places people knew
things were going sideways and kind of joked about it. can you explain the context for that e-mail? >> sure. in early august the white house notified the state department that the aid to ukraine from the state department was going to be held. it's about $141 million in security assistance. congress had already approved it and then a notice comes from the white house to the state department saying we are putting a hold on this. the e-mail traffic shows that people at the state department, career diplomats were surprised. there wasn't a reason for why the hold was put on the money, and then about five weeks later a second set of e-mails comes through and they say that the hold has been released. again, no specific explanation. they said there was a review, that the nsc had undergone with the aid to make sure it was being spent properly but the aid is now being released. this is good news for the state
department. the career diplomats want to tell people, hey, the money is coming through. this is how the united states shows commitment to the crew yan which as you know has been in a state of conflict since late 2013 and corruption years and years before that. so the ambassador in kiev, bill taylor wants to announce this, he wants to tell the president of ukraine the money has come through, don't worry. and he's told -- hold your horses, put some brakes on it, let's be careful. the nsc has said we don't want to announce this, we don't want to make a big deal of this. and so he didn't say this but he said let's try to move past it, don't make a big deal out of it, and in your words he said nothing to see here, people, let's move on. i don't think he was saying this is matter of wrongdoing. it seemed like more of an e-mail eye roll in the context of the state department e-mails. clearly there was frustration that the state department couldn't do its job and tell the president of ukraine the money
had come through. >> i think it's a fair interpretation, and what strikes me here is the sequence of events the president keeps saying it's fine and there's no quid pro quo, but there's all this sketchiness and dodginess. if you're not doing anything wrong, you can tell the state department. at vaev point in the process they're covering up and being sketchy as hell. >> that's right. and of course the guidance that came from the white house was not to say this was about corruption, not to say this is about ukraine getting its own act, but the guidance that came from the white house is this was a routine review and it's something they hammered to the defense department, and others involved in this that they should stick to that. every time we see this phase there's nothing to see here, of course there is something to see. like laura was saying i don't
suspect and but he also recognized that this presumably has two eyes and two ears and presumably knew this was a big deal and it flew through congress, both houses. it takes an act of god for many more acts to do that. and this is time the white house should have been spiking the football. and instead the guidance that came not from the state department but from the white house was essentially keep this low-key, there's nothing to see here. and i think, chris, we have to think about this in broad strokes as part of that cover-up. this is not just press guidance, a routine matter. this is the white house directing the state department to keep an even keel here because they know this was anything but normal and they want to keep this under wraps. >> it's not just the mid-level state department. the picture that's emerged from your reporting among others is almost everyone, capitol hill
staffers, members of congress of both parties, senators, everyone is going on what the heck is going on with this money. it's this big sort of like mystery sitting there in the middle of a fast community of people invested in the issue. >> well, right. and a lot of people had wanted this money to go through ukraine has made the case it desperately needs it to fight off russian aggression in ukraine's east. the united states has maintained it's going to be a steadfast ally of ukraine and help ukraine fight against russian aggression. that's why it's so surprising when congress signed off, when the administration initially signed off. when this was going to happen as expected and then it got held up. >> final question for you, ned. you worked on the nsc. do you believe there's a word for word transcript of that phone call? >> i'm skeptical, chris. from this contemporaneous memo that was released today, we learned something we didn't know before. mapely that this call was
interpreted, that president zelensky was not speaking english. so there's been a lot made of the fact when you actually read the transcript, it doesn't amount to 30 minutes, it amounts to 15 to 20 minutes and i think that sumulltaneous interpretation explains that. we should actually refer to the document the white house appears to have released. i think there have been some theories out there there's maybe more, there are ellipsies, oddities in this transcript. but i would be skeptical. and now there's an explanation for the relative brevity of this. i think there is so much that's damning in this transcript and so much that speaks to betrayal that we really don't have to look any further. we don't have to be conspiracy theorists to think there has to be something out there. this could well be it. >> thank you both. up next, after enabling
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it's extremely rare in american politics in 2019 to find a front and center policy issue to which there's near total not just bipartisan but transideological support. such is the case with the condemnation of the trump administration's actions. people necons and hawks all view this as a grave mistake. essentially a wink wink, nudge nudge incursion of a crime and betrayal and it is happening as i speak to you right now. turkish air strikes, cross border incursions by turkish troops. civilians, hundreds of thousands of them in the path of this assault fleeing and also the first civilian deaths. and all this after trump withdrew u.s. troops from that
part of syria and allowed turkey to attack. and there's something just truly revolting about watching people who have done everything in their power to facilitate and shore up the strength of this president knowing full well and the way he makes decisions, knowing he's highly conflicted, express their moral outrage at this. senator lindsey graham chief among them who calls the impeachment inquiry a witch hunt wants a loyaltiy oath sworn by republican senators who today sent his prayers to our kurdish allies and is cosponsoring sanctions against turkey which we can expect to get nowhere because trump blocked it. they are the ones who have empowered this guy. what did you think he was going to do? you knew he was a snake when you took him in. >> isis fighters escape and pose a threat elsewhere. >> well, they're going to be escaping to europe. they want to go back to their
homes. >> joining me now democratic congressman mack rose. good to see you, congressman. do you share the vast majority of your colleagues of what's happening here? >> i've been a supporter of this president's effort and i want to see us reduce our foot precipitate and end urforever wars and how do we do that? we partner with people, partner with entities such as the kurds to be the tip of the spear to fight really incredible fundamentists who threaten the homeland. what we can't do is send the message after you do our bidding we're going to abandon you. watching your program right now is my platoon sergeant from afghanistan. >> i don't want to see him
deploy again. the only way we'd do that without threatening the homeland is by these types of partnerships. >> justin amosash, your colleag, no one is coming home. there are 50 special op troops there in that area who just got moved to a different place. it's not like there's going to be some big homecoming right now. >> and he received a collin advance, advance warning this was going to happen. and for all intents and purposes he green lit it. i respect turkey's issues with its border. turkey's deserving of border security just like any other nation. and the way we would achieve that without perpetual war is with american leadership, bringing people to the table for a negotiated peace. >> someone said today they're jumping out of a 40th story window and exiting out the front door both ways to leave a
building, but they're pretty different. >> you represent a district that is a district with democrats and republicans and independents. i'm curious like it's been striking to me to watch republicans on this issue. they are really upset about this. is this a thing that people in your district worry about, that you're having conversations about? what is it you think has lit the fire under your republican colleagues? >> well, i think you saw the same reaction from people like liz cheney when the president discussed us withdrawing from afghanistan. and certainly when it comes to protecting the constitution, they certainly will not raise their hand to criticize this president under any circumstances. they're hawks in every way, shape or form. so i don't think this is an opportunity to justify or legitimate their world view.
but in this particular instance when you see what the kurds have done for us over the last five years, we had a precipitous withdrawal from iraq and it was with partnership with the kurdss that we were able to beat them back. right now there's over 11,000 isis prisoners. if you had told me a month ago the president would be openly seeking china's help in his next election and aiding and abetting isis prisoners, i would say you're out of your mind but here we are. >> they're halted right now. we also know as you said 11,000 isis fighters currently being held in detention by these forces. like, the president today was asked about well what happens, and he said they're going to go back to europe. >> that's a completely naive world view. it's a completely naive interpretation of the threat. part of what isis did is they
not only inspired the movement of fighters, but they also inspired an ideology here at home. and to have 10,000 prisoners stream out and potentially reconstitute an isis regime will be incredibly inspirational, and you'll see that message sent throughout social media. we cannot allow for ourselves to have another chapter to this story. >> last question here, do you see congressional action? obviously there's a van hollen and lindsey graham. could you imagine a world let's say sanctions against turngy that's bipartisan support for that in the house? >> i don't think they can be appropriate right now, but that's a band-aid. we have to look at the entire region and we've got to actually bring people the table. turkey is deserving of security but they cannot take it into this regard and we cannot stand
on the side lines waiting for this to happen. i'd like to see real leadership and i haven't lost faith that is possible, but what we're seeing right now is certainly not okay. >> congressman max rose of the great city of new york and staten island, brooklyn, great to see you. next as the trump campaign drops millions on facebook ads they have the green light to post just outright lies. those details next. o post just outright lies those details next maria ramirez! mom! maria! maria ramirez... mcdonald's is committing 150 million dollars in tuition assistance, education, and career advising programs... prof: maria ramirez mom and dad: maria ramirez!!! to help more employees achieve their dreams.
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and the fog to, who else, karl. i leave these things to my heirs, all 39 million of you, on one condition. that you do everything to preserve and protect them. with love, california. just a quick correction before we proceed, max rose the congressman i was just speaking to is a democrat from new york's 14th district, not a republican. apologies for the error.
one of the top republican spenders on facebook ads is trump. his re-election campaign is paying facebook a million dollars a week. and what the campaign has been paying facebook to do is flood with flatly false ads about joe biden. one false ad has already been viewed 5 million times on the site. despite biden's campaign refusing to take down the ads. biden's leading rival warren is now accusing facebook of essentially buckling to a direct pressure campaign from the president himself. in a series of tweets monday warren noted that warren and zuckerberg met just a few weeks ago in the oval office. that's them right there or also noted after that meeting facebook reportedly changed its policies to allow false political ads. facebook denied changing its policies but admitted it allowed
political ads. facebook's head said, quote, we don't believe that it's an appropriate role for us to referee political debates and prevent a politician's speech from reaching its audience. warren as you may remember has announced a plan to break up facebook and other tech giants. monday she pointed out facebook helped get trump get elected in the first place in 2016 in part pie allowing russian trolls to run rampant on the platform and they're going further to take deliberate steps and i should note some of those same ads have now been rejected from networks because they are so patternly false. great reporting on this. covers politics and power and also research director for hillary clinton's presidential campaign back in 2008. all right, so your reporting has indicated this change in the facebook policy.
and facebook says there is no change, it's always been this way. what do you say? >> that's not true. there was a change. there's a written policy. facebook has a written ad policy. anyone can google it and find it. it's something i've paid a lot of attention to. and a couple of weeks ago i noticed there was a big change. they used to have a section under misinformation and it said you could not run any false or misleading ad. there were no caveats, there were no limitations to that, it was a blanket restriction. and then i noticed that section had been removed and it was replaced with a section that said you can't run an ad that was deemed false by any of our third party fact checkers. facebook partners with polit fact, factcheck.org, a few others to fact check a few different things that end up being popular on facebook. i contacted them and noticed that biden ad you were referring
to the a claim that had been rejected by two or three of their facebooks fact checkers and that's when facebook told me that actually even that, there is an exemption for political candidates. so what facebook is saying, well, we never enforced their old policy, which i can't really say if that's true or not because i'm not in the room with them as they enforce it, but there was a change. and i think that's why people have kind of gotten pretty upset about this and are raising a stink because people didn't know this before. >> well, part of the context too is what the trump campaign has been doing on the platform. how invested have they been in facebook and facebook ads? >> hugely invested. in fact, they've ratcheted it down a little bit. as of last week they were spending upwards of $1.6 million per week on the platform. and many of these ads are false and misleading. even in your first segment you were talking about how the trump campaign has not released a
transcript. there was an ad released today by the trump campaign. there's dozens and dozens of variations targeting voters all around the country. and the very first ad they release the transcript. this is candidate spending millions of dollars to facebook to spread this kind of misinformation and we're more than a year out. so i think you can expect that the intensity of the spending and the intensity of the message is only going to increase as we get closer to election day. >> part of the context here is there's been a real right wing push against facebook. earlier claims in 2016 they were rigging things, they were biased against conservative publishers. there was a big meeting glen beck went to among others. now republican senators from josh holly to ted cruz saying they're biased and should have legal and political protections taken away for that reason. do you see a concerted effort
here to make facebook more amenable to the kinds of things that the trump campaign is running? >> absolutely. and i think that's the important context for this policy is that it wouldn't really be a big deal, except you have a campaign that is pushing all of these false ads. and i think they've really been successful in building into the consciousness, the idea that facebook has a liberal bias. but really if you look at the people in charge, the person in charge of the d.c. office is a republican operative, joel kaplan, you may have recognized him. he was sitting behind brett kavanaugh during his confirmation hearing. so this isn't a company that's really run by liberals for liberals. in fact, it's setting some rules that are providing some fairly significant advantages to trump in advance of 2020. >> great reporting. thanks for joining us. ahead, what's the play for democrats leading impeachment and the white house says they have no plans to cooperate.
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orders. >> it's paper mache and same things for the light bulbs, you do look better with incan des want. >> he's had these events almost daily and each one is weirder than the next. >> digital is becoming a very big factor in the world. they even have signs, make china great again, make hong kong great again. i'm saying get those signs. a lot of american flags, a lot of trump signs. it's a very powerful wall. it's got everything you could have. we've had mounter climbers literally come in, which is the hardest one to climb. you can't impeach a president for doing a great job. >> that was last week, october 7th and he made sure to wish happy birthday to the prime minister of japan multiple times. >> i want to start by wishing my very good friend prime minister abe of japan a very happy birthday. he's 39 years old today.
so please extend my wishes to the prime minister. please, again, wish prime minister abe a happy birthday. he's a very special man. >> it's so sweet, but it wasn't actually abe's birthday. abe's birthday was last month, but it was someone's birthday. vladimir putin. and we know this because putin did a little celebrating. and that's thing 2 in 60 seconds. celebrating and that's thing 2 in 60 seconds.
announcer: fidelity is redefining value with zero account fees for brokerage accounts. and zero minimums to open an account. at fidelity those zeros really add up. ♪ maybe i'll win ♪ saved by zero every year around vladimir putin's birthday the kremlin releases propaganda footage of him celebrating ensome way. in 2015 it was a hockey match with former nhl stars and oligarchs. putin scored just seven goals in that game. it's a little less exciting this year for a 67th birthday. please enjoy the following video. vladimir putin forages for mushrooms. that is wholesome stuff, i've
got to say. putin enjoyed his birthday weekend in siberian wilderness and did fun things like drive a big truck, pose with a big tree, enjoy a nice picnic and walk around a lot with a big stick. donald trump we think accidently gave his best wishes to shinzo abe instead. the kremlin says he did not receive a birthday call from president trump, but putin gets everything he wants already. bu everything he wants already. anag multiple clouds for your business. when you've got public clouds, and private clouds, and hybrid clouds- things can get a bit cloudy for you. but now, there's the dell technologies cloud, powered by vmware. a single hub for a consistent operating experience across all your clouds. that should clear things up.
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no matter how the president tries to explain away his actions there's growing public support not just the impeachment inquiry but also for the impeachment indeed removal of the president. in that stunning new poll by fox news i mentioned earlier 51% of registered voters, not american adults, registered voters surveyed say they felt the president should be impeached and removed. 4% supported impeachment but not removal. and 40% said he should not be impeached. that's not the only bad news for the president today. a new politico morning consult poll found 50% of registered voters supports impeachment and removal of the president, and 7% were unsure. public support for impeachic donald trump is higher than it was for bill clinton and richard nixon when impeachment inquiry were launched against both of them. quote, polls asking whether congress should impeach richard nixon and remove him from office didn't pass the 50% mark until
late july 1974. nixon resigned two weeks later. as of wednesday october 9th the polling consensus is clear. impeachment has gone from fairly unpopular to majority opinion. the democrats have won the opinion battle so far. the question is how they proceed. they have a big strategic choice to make. we'll discuss that next. g strate to make. we'll discuss that next. and zero minimums to open an account. at fidelity those zeros really add up. ♪ maybe i'll win ♪ saved by zero it's rukmini here from the new york times . hey, you see this?
what you're seeing is regiside, by another name, fake impeachment. the democrats in the house want to destroy the president. i refuse to call them whistle-blowers. these two non-entities are suicide bombers that the democrats have unleashed on the democratic process. >> last night on trump tv, two people intimately acquainted with trump's offenses were on tv to defend the president. just a few weeks ago, chris wallace said joe digenevo
described the process of impeachment as regiside which implies we have a king and trump is the king. we don't have a king and that's the point of america and someone is trying to kill him, which democrats are not. he called whistle-blowers suicide bombers and trump tv to point in a coup or power graph. despite the fact it's in the constitution as a constitutional option to deal with presidents that abuse the office in a democratic way. that is why the process exists. the question for democrats is how to deal with the white house's intent to deal with nothing. do you fight it in court or say we have what we need and move quickly? that appears to be what house intel chair adam schiff is trying to do, to help ponder the questions, i'm joined by david brock. founder of media matters and
america bridge and former staffer with the house intelligence committee. mika, let me start with you. it seems to me that the house intelligence committee as chaired by adam schiff's response to the unhinged eight-page letter we're not going to give you anything is okay fine, we don't need it. am i reading that right? >> i think adam schiff has a plan for how he will gather the evidence he needs and he's going to stick that to and the white house refusing to answer and provide witnesses is something he's pushing through. he has other witnesses scheduled to come friday and other people in the state department that are clearly concerned about what was happening and the president has been revealing evidence both while standing on the south lawn of the white house and releasing it in transcript form and rudy giuliani is waving it around on television. there is a lot of information out there and the president admitted the conduct in question. >> you know, my -- we saw for nine months white house very successfully stymied and bottled up house oversight committees
and said you're not getting taxes and not getting this and that and now it's in courts and working its way through and you're not getting any witnesses so things have changed a bit. i think, since this happened but i wonder whether you think there is a risk if you move quickly on this set of facts to impeachment that things get wrenched into the light. >> i don't think so. nancy pelosi put the strategy out there and said strike while the iron is hot. i think people have a lot of confidence in her ability to navigate this with times. so there is nothing to say these investigations can't continue. the danger i would say is you get bogged down in congressional process. liberals are process oriented and that to me is danger. i think the most important thing democrats can do, two things, one, learn the lesson from mueller, which two years of time where the trump attack machine was able to portray them as partisan and unethical with no
response, then they came out really forcefully outside the box. you have to say that and say no collusion. it was dishonest by barr but it worked and two months to hear from mueller and that was a dud. i think really be conscious of having to educate the public and continue. you ran through the polls in your prior segment. there is more room to grow that and the most important thing you can do is continue to educate the public about what trump did and i think those numbers will even move more in their favor. they need to look at this as everything to gain for them and everything to lose for republicans. >> mika, you talked about more witnesses. again, as we've been saying since this started that the pertinent facts, the core of the issue are entered into evidence undisputed and attested to in the records but they will try to stop folks, the ambassador of ukraine who has quite a story to tell is called on friday. it seems like they will intervene. it seems like they will try to shut down the rest of this.
the question becomes do you just say okay, fine, now we move to articles? >> i think we have a couple more witnesses beyond that, right? you have not one but two whistle blow rss, oers blowers, one with great knowledge. >> great point. >> that's testimony they will gather and there are others that will claim whistle blower protection to come forward and we saw it took people time to work up the courage for that. we don't know who else in the state department will come forward and i think there will be some challenges but every witness, every person that refuses to turnover information the house made clear you come forward or that's another count on obstruction and so its sort of win win for them for the house as they go forward on this because you either talk or you're obstructing. >> one of the points, david, that you made there is room to grow because if you get total democratic unanimity behind this, there is higher up for the polls to go and for that point, joe biden today came out for the
first time and called for trump's impeachment. take a listen. >> with his words and his actions, president trump has indicted himself by obstructing justice, refusing to compile with the congressional inquiry. he's already convicted himself in full view of the world and the american people, donald trump violated his oath of office and committed impeachable acts. to preserve our constitution, our democracy and basic integrity, he should be impeached. >> this struck me as a big deal because of who joe biden is and where the democratic party base is in terms of public opinion. >> i absolutely think he helped himself a lot today because this is obviously a popular position among democrats. there is a lot of chatter that biden hasn't really made as much
of this the fact he's in the middle of it is increased and he hasn't been as out front as powerful, as forceful as he could be taking trump. there are very powerful words in there and it helps for his on the ground organizing and i've heard it will help, i've heard in the last two weeks, it will be an uptick in the fundraising, too. >> josh marshall made this point, the logical conclusion is the fox poll has approval at 43% and 51% want him impeached or removed there is no middle ground. you approve or want him gone tomorrow. >> that's right. >> david brock and mika, thanks both for making time. don't forget we're bringing the with pod road show. it will be amazing conversations. visit ms nbc.com/with pod tour. the next shows will be live right here rockefeller center. you can be in the audience. we have tickets for this friday,
october 11th and next friday october 18th. you can get tickets for both by going to all in.com. hope to see you then. that is "all in" for this evening. rachel maddow starts now. good evening, rachel. >> chris hayes, is it actually true that when trump was repeatedly wishing a happy birthday to shinzo abe, it wasn't his birthday? >> yes and he kept going back to it over and over. his brain is a stream and there is little bits that get thrown into it and float down the stream. someone at some point balled up a starbucks rapper that is shinzo abe's birthday and through it in. >> it was actually vladimir putin's birthday. >> indeed. >> what somebody did was realized that trump was about to go on camera planning to wish happy birthday to vladimir putin and