tv Politics Nation With Al Sharpton MSNBC December 8, 2019 2:00pm-3:00pm PST
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trump. no new witnesses are expected to be called tomorrow but the lawyers for the judiciary and intelligence committees will put forth all the evidence found in their allegations advocating for president trump's removal. and as far as chairman jerry nadler is concerned, the case is open and shut. >> we have a very lock solid case. i think the case we have if presented to a jury would be a guilty verdict in about three minutes flat. >> nadler also indicated that the articles of impeachment drawn up by his committee could come as early as this week if and when president trump is impeached by the house the process will head to the republican-held senate for a trial. but one of the chamber gop leaders of south carolina made clear this morning that he'll try to dispose of it as quickly
as possible. >> i'm saying that i'm going to end this as quickly as i can for the good of the country. when 51 of us say we have heard enough the trial is going to end. the president's going to be acquitted. he may want to call schiff or hunter biden or joe biden but here's my advice to the president. if the senate is ready to vote and ready to acquit you, you should celebrate that. >> as we speak members of the judiciary committee are working tirelessly to prepare for tomorrow's proceedings. and determine the charges against the president. we'll speak to one of those esteemed lawmakers, democratic congresswoman sylvia garcia later in the show. but first, how will tomorrow's hearing further shape the discussion around impeachment? with me to discuss democratic strategist doug thornel and noah
nothman, editor of common term magazine. noah, let me start with you. what are the things you will be looking for coming out of the hearing tomorrow heading into the final stages toward an impeachment vote in the house? >> a digestible case of what we know so far from both judiciary side about what this means, what is impeachment and why it's necessary and the intelligence committee counsel to play out the facts in evidence. democrats do not have what we all talk about now is the smoking gun. the president's express intent. we know the order came from him but we don't know why with regard to this waylaid aide. everyone testifying is the same story. it is a concise argument, sufficient for me. i don't know if it was for voters. republicans should hear from mick mulvaney and john bolton,
too. bolton was not subpoenaed by this house but they're the only ones to clear up this order from the president. did this come from the president? why did it happen? i suspect there's a paper trail somewhere suggesting that the president wanted this for "x" purpose, what we understand to be the pressure to put on democrats and especially joe biden and we don't have that yet and once we have that i don't know how many republicans can maintain nothing happened here. >> noah raises a point of smoking gun. doug, some people felt the president told president zelensky to talk to william barr and rudy giuliani and trying to say the investigation must be announced against joe biden and his son which is a motive. this is a potential political rival. wouldn't that be a smoking gun to many people?
>> rev, it is great to be with you. you bring up a great point. yes, i think there are some other things to keep in mind. the president in the summary of the call with the president of ukraine saying, do us a favor, though. you have the chief of staff mick mulvaney doing a press conference and admitted to the quid pro quo. and you have all of these kr corroborating witnesses of what the whistle-blower said. i think the case that the democrats have is pretty solid and does show that the president abused the power. tried to bribe the president of ukraine to do him a political favor which would tip the balance of the election in 2020 to his favor, in return for military aid. simple. i think noah is right. democrats need to keep this simple, coherent, straightforward. it is moving voters in most of the polls you see.
basically a majority of voters right now support the inquiry that occurred. and right now it is about a toss-up 50/50 who support impeaching the president and removing him. >> noah, when you look at the 50/50 poll, and you listen to senator graham saying, we need 51 votes to just close this down, politically, because you have given me what you're looking for on terms of the actual process, but politically, when will it be in your opinion acceptable to the public for graham and them to call graham and the gop senators, to call for a vote to try to close it down? couldn't they try to close it down prematurely and backfire on them politically? >> absolutely. i can't imagine there's the will among 51 senators in the upper chamber to dismiss outright. it would be so flippant to
dismiss it. republicans should want to hear the facts in evidence and they should want to hear from the witnesses who have been unable to testify or failed to be compelled to testify. they know what actually happened here. the public is concerned about the prospect of the president to affect a political objective domestically. >> has far reaching precedent if it is established he did it but that they're saying we won't convict him. this could carry on for presidents in the future. >> the weight and the gravity of impeachment should weigh on everybody involved here. will it affect our politics future in ways unknowable just as bill clinton's rejection from office affected the politics in ways for decades in the future why the word censure will be brought up more frequently, the notion to take the temperature down and condemn this with perhaps a more bipartisan voice
rather than have it go completely partisan vote in the senate is going to be something i think more democrats contemplate and even a few persuadable republicans say this is the path to take. >> when they went through the impeachment proceedings and trial with bill clinton, there was an agreement in terms of some of the procedures and witnesses and all between the majority and minority leaders of the senate at that time. we have not seen that surface so far between mitch mcconnell and chuck schumer. that puts it in the ballpark of the chief judge who's presiding over the trial. do you anticipate that this is going to cause more problems? do you anticipate that the chief judge is not going to want to get into a lot of rulings? are we looking at the possibility that the republicans are going to insist on calling joe biden's son and others? what are we looking at the
possibilities here? >> well, i think republicans have indicated that that's the route to go. they want a circus, basically turn this into a circus and not going to respond or refute the charges. right? they don't believe that what the president did was wrong. that's why i think the point about the censure, though, that means that republicans have to admit what he did was wrong and i don't think they're saying that. that's a real tragedy. but i think in the senate i think, yeah, i think exactly they're going to try to make this a circus. they try to call hunter biden, joe biden, adam schiff, you name it. i think lindsey graham and i don't like to give him credit but i think he realizes that that type of circus probably does not look good for the institution of the senate. and for someone who i think still believes in the senate
even though he lurched bway to the trump right i think he is worried what it looks like with this circus take place where it becomes just a trump reality show. >> noah? >> it's hard to disagree with doug. i think that republicans are loathe to say right now what the president did was wrong and also not impeachable. that's the only argument that makes sense. it is the last logical argument to make that this happened, everybody says this happened, hard to say that the nine witnesses that testified over the course of that week of testimony are not telling the truth. >> especially the caliber of people that testified. >> virtually unimpeachable. what the president did was wrong. yeah, we should probably come out against it but is it worth the first time to eject a president from office? that's the logical argument i think the republicans feel good about making. right now they're forced to sort
of at least if not echo entirely then affirm the notion that this was a perfect call. nothing bad actually happened on the call and any evidence to the contrary is doctored or false. it just doesn't make a lot of sense. once this process -- >> if they do that, doug, then aren't they saying that we are established and that using noah's words to last as a legal precedent for decades that we're establishing that a president of the united states can use a foreign power, threatened with withholding funds the congress approved for their aid, to determine something in a united states election? isn't that having some real broad consequences that americans may not want to see their country go toward? >> it's an awful precedent. i think looking at the history books in 20, 30, years, maybe ten years from now, you got to be looking at how you -- if
you're a senator, a member of the house, how did you conduct yourself in this moment that is so important? and i think if you're a house republican, senate republicans, you know, the reality is the folks are held hostage by donald trump in the sense that they are putting his interest, his political interest above the interest of the country and they are loathe to try to do anything that would in any way criticize trump because trump doesn't think he did anything wrong and that's why they wouldn't support a censure but it's an awful precedent and i have republicans right now who i don't think the nrcc said that they wouldn't use information that was stolen by a foreign country in an election. there is a pledge that's been sent to the nrcc and they, i don't think, have signed it yet which is if you think about it given everything the country's
been through is just -- it's a sad state of affairs. >> all right. i'm going to have to hold it there for a moment. we'll have more with them later in the show. coming up, 2020 candidate bernie sanders is making a point to bolster his support among african americans. next week he's kicking off a tour that focuses on outreach to black men in particular. my next guest is part of that effort. surrogate and rapper killer mike joins me live. but first, my colleague richard liu with today's top news stories. >> stories to watch this hour. the fbi is pleading for the public's help in the effort to learn more what led to a deadly shooting at a naval base in florida. we know that the shooter used a glock 45 millimeter handgun but a motive still remains unclear and uncertain whether he acted alone or part of a larger
network. so far no arrests have been made in that. hundreds of thousands of demonstrators participated in a torchlight rally in hong kong today showing mass support. demonstration stretched for several mime there is and for the first time since august organizers of the march received a letter of no objection from police following several weeks of peace. more "politics nation" after the break. more "politics nation" after the break. ♪oh there's no place like home for the holidays.♪ ♪'cause no matter how far away you roam.♪ ♪when you pine for the sunshine of a friendly gaze.♪ ♪for the holidays you can't beat home sweet home.♪
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when we talk about democracy, we do not believe that governors have the right to suppress the vote. make it harder for people of color or young people to participate in the political process. >> with less than two months before primaries begin, democratic presidential candidates are pounding the pavement in early voting states and one voting bloc they hope to attract in particular is african-americans. in a recent poll nationwide, joe biden has an astounding lead among black voters with 47%. number two on that list, bernie sanders. this week, the vermont senator is set to tour the carolinas to begin outreach, specifically geared toward black men. and he's enlisted the help of rapper and activist killer mike who believes sanders can start a
revolution with black voters. he joins me now. rapper killer mike, who's a national surrogate for the bernie sanders campaign. welcome to the show, killer mike. >> thank you, rev. i appreciate you, growing up in atlanta, let me say first of all, thank you very much. i'm a pru i'm product of mentorship geoff rend james orange and done a lot of boots on the ground work in my lifetime so thank you. >> thank you. let me ask you, you out in 2016, bernie did not do that well with black voters. >> yeah. >> what do you think is the difference now? is the message different? how do you think he will improve his standing? he's at 14% according to the polls. and you have biden at 47%. what do you think can happen that would in many ways increase his support in the black community? >> well, i don't always trust polls in manner of our
community. i never seen a nielsen box in a working class black community but in atlanta and other communities what i hear is people saying that we need alternatives to the two choices given which is typically middle of the road republican or democrat and there's some variations. he i don't think is starting a revolution. he is continuing a re lugs. i think it's the same revolution of dr. king fought and the sclc fought. it's the revolution to make sure that the compassionate capitalism or social democracy or whatever you want to look at it as is exercised in this country. it is a revolution to make sure that people who are sick get health care, people who don't want to go to college go to trade school for free and people that go to college isn't burdened by that debt. that affects my community directly. decriminalization of marijuana i never thought i'd see in my lifetime but it's a push for it
in big part of his campaign. if my son is caught with marijuana it could ruin his life for the rest of his life. now we have an environment where he will get scolded as a child and have a chance to be a fruitful adult without a felony on the record. i think that rez vasonates in o community. >> you have said and the campaign that there's going to be an emphasis in this particular tour on black men. why -- >> why. >> why black men. >>dy vertding back to my 17-year-old son, i wish to leave this world a world in which he has opportunity, working glass boys across the board but in particular in my community black boys, need an opportunity. our girls are going to college and graduating. our girls need an opportunity to get rid of that debt. our boys are not going to college at those rates but want to go to trade school and build the infrastructure of the nation. they should get an opportunity to do that.
grandmothers, uncles are sick from diabetes. my doctor has me on a weight loss regimen. i like to see more black men to do that. they can't do that without proper insurance. universal health care to give them that opportunity. not only to go to the doctor when you're sick but to get a plan never to be sick. i think that resonates. in my mind, he is a continuation of the poor people's campaign under the mentorship of the people that marched with dr. king and continuation of a 100-year campaign and trying to make this country is and that's what it can be and it can be great. >> now, when we look at the fact that bernie sanders is saying all of these issues that he's raising and the plans, one of the things that came up in this campaign was reparations and many said they'd support a committee that sheila jackson lee is pushing. bernie sanders said he is not necessarily supporting
reparations, that he wants to support the clyburn plan. how do you respond to that? >> how i respond is saying rest in peace to representative john conyers. he was pushing hr-40 since 1989. >> right. >> in his lifetime he got to see us as a community get behind that. unfortunately he didn't get to see that bill go through. that bill is reintroduced with tweaks and could use further tweaking. saunders i saw from regular run of the mill black working people put the pressure on him and we were advised that this is something to re-evaluate and look at. within 50 to 60 days to he turned from i don't know and then i'll sign it. >> all right. >> to me, to me bigger than simply saying will you give me reparations, i learned in that moment i have an apply to take my word, trust and depend that i'm telling them the truth and
pivot if need be for fairness and justice to prevail and i salute him for that. >> black men suffer disproportionately with the omnibus crime bill. we have recently seen michael bloomberg apologize. should bernie apologize for voting for the crime bill. >> he said in public that's something he regretted doing and added an amendment. i think in regards to women that may have been in regards to rape or violence toward women. i think he and many politicians regret that bill. i hope that more politicians regret it and bigger than that, i remember bill clinton saying one time in response to an audience saying that you voted to -- you signed that bill, he said your leaders asked me to and not limited to people like my grandparents and ministers, people your comrades and crack -- >> we fought about it. you are right about it. we had a big fight about it.
>> i think that all of us from those times, i was just a child, but i think that all of us have soul searching to do to say we were all in a panic mode and we did the wrong thing and now we have an opportunity to do the right thing. >> i'm glad to have you on the show an one last thing. almost as important as the other issues, coming to atlanta, i'm coming the sweat shop to -- >> yes, sir. i would love that. we got to get you styling in there. i would love to get you in the chair. >> thank you for being with us, killer mike. >> the high pock sy of the vice presidency of mike pence. details ahead.
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bumbling president pence's malfeasance is often overlooked. he decided to observe world aids day last week with a tweet saying that he and his wife, quote, stand with everyone living with hiv and aids and honored the memory of those lost and it might have been his most hypocritical moment yet as one of the most infamous episodes in his gubernatorial career involved enabling a massive hiv outbreak in indiana. it started when he was a congressman and he cast his vote to defund planned parenthood forcing the only clinic for hiv testing to close its doors. then as governor local officials warned of increasing rates of the disease and pence cited the religious beliefs as an excuse to delay a needle exchange
program that could have prevented infections and saved lives. i don't know what bible vice president pence is reading but mine teaches me that it's my duty to show compassion for my fellow man. not that any elected officials' religion to supercede the duty to the constitution and the people but the next time the vice president wants to tweet some platitudes that are completely contradicted by his own actions maybe he should think again. i got you. (vo) the flock blindly falls into formation.
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sadly, confidence and humidity with allegiance to the founders and hearts full of love for america today i am asking our chairman to proceed with articles of impeachment. >> welcome back. after speaker nancy pelosi called on the house thursday to begin drafting articles of impeachment, members of the judiciary committee have spent hours working around the clock this weekend to lay out the constitutional basis for why the president should be removed from office. the committee hopes to debut its findings tomorrow in a second impeachment hearing, notably absent from the proceedings president trump or a white house representative. joining me now is democratic
congresswoman sylvia garcia of texas, a member of the house judiciary committee. representative, first of all, welcome to "politics nation." >> thank you for having me. it's good to talk to you again. >> now, let me ask you, congresswoman, you stayed back, the judiciary committee members worked over the weekend. what exactly are you all doing to prepare for tomorrow's hearings? are there mock hearings being held? what are you doing to kind of fine tune what we will see tomorrow? >> basically, it is a lot of homework. we are preparing, reading, having discussions and tomorrow we will have a hearing to have both sides and i want to emphasize both sides will present the evidence that from their reports from the intel committee's work and the investigation. so the democrats will present their evidence, republicans will present their evidence. and missing, of course, as you
president has not only not wanted to participate and have his side of the story told, he doesn't want any of his agents to tell the story. he's stonewalled, ordered people not to come testify. he's ordered people not to give us documents. to this day we have not gotten one document we asked for from any of the agencies. we haven't had one person that we've subpoenaed to come testify. so he's been stonewalling and not being fair to the american people in not telling us his side of the story. not telling us what the facts are from his end of the table. so he is just sort of not only being disrespectful to members of congress and the process of impeachment but he's being disrespectful to the people we represent because when i'm at the table it is not me. it's the 800,000 people that i represent so he's disrespect and disdain for congress and not
wanting to participate is just being disrespectful and unfair to the american people. >> has it been determined yet whether or not any of the things that were in the mueller report like obstruction might be part of what is raised in the impeachment articles or has that not been determined or can you say? >> well, al, we won't know until after tomorrow. you know? we don't know which articles because we are just going to hear the evidence tomorrow. again, both sides will present the evidence. missing, of course, will be the president. we'll hear it all and then the next step will be to look at whether or not there will be articles of impeachment drafted and which ones. but here's the interesting point, al. that when you look at some of what we have already heard, when we look at the stories we have already read, it's almost like the framers way back when when they were drafted the
constitution had a crystal ball and looked at that crystal ball and said, okay, what might a president do in the future that we need to prevent? will they seek a foreign power to try to rig an election? will they abuse their power? will they use any means possible to get elected? and you know, they put the impeachment clause in there to make sure that if there was a person like that that we would have a remedy but little did they know that that person they were thinking about and maybe looking at was donald trump because he is actually all their worst fears. everything that they have talked about that a president could maybe do that should not be allowed in our country, to maintain our democracy, to maintain our right to vote, to maintain our freedoms, all in donald trump. so it's amazing to me how thoughtful and how visionary the founders were.
but it's so sad because now we are faced with a crisis in our country that we may face the impeachment of a president. i didn't run for office to come here to congress to impeach a president. i came here to work for the people. and to protect our democracy. so it's our duty to have this hearing, it is our duty to look at all the evidence and it's our duty to protect the constitution, the democracy that we have in this country. >> look at that same crystal ball, quickly. i'm out of time but i have to ask you. >> okay. >> look at the same crystal ball. what do you hope people say 30, 40, 50 years from now about these proceedings and what comes out of it? >> i think that they will see that we had a congress that stood up for the american people, that it stood up for our right to have a free election. of and by the people.
not with the help or interference from a foreign government. any time we allow a foreign government to participate in any way in our election that makes us less free and our vote les valuable so to me it's hopefully to see that we stood up for the rule of law, we stood up for democracy and the republic that we have and that we did our duty. >> all right. >> that we had to do it. we had no other choice. >> texas congresswoman and member of the judiciary committee, sylvia garcia, thank you for being with us. >> thank you. j up next, what exactly led to the demise of senator harris' campaign and can the democratic field afford to be any less diverse? we'll discuss it next. re. so you can bring your vision to life and save in more ways than one.
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met the qualification, the next debate will feature six white candidates, forcing a reckoning over diversity in the democratic party. back with me democratic strategist doug thornell and noah rothnell and joining the conversation, janelle rossen, nbc news reporter who closely covers the 2020 white house race. janelle, let me go to you because you've written an article about it in a recent california poll taken before kamala harris dropped out of the race showed her in fifth place in her own state. why do you think she couldn't gain traction? >> i think there are a number of reasons why the harris campaign struggled but i think some of the more prominent ones are that just by way of example the
campaign seemed to struggle in its own way to find its own identity and without a voluntary began and an maimating theme fo this particular run for the white house but beyond that i think that the candidate had some difficulty trying to both take credit for and perhaps reframe her -- the period of time that she spent working as a prosecutor both at the local level and then ultimately as attorney general. i think we are in a moment where conversations about criminal justice and criminal justice reform bring with them real scrutiny of the way that the criminal justice system has functioned and continues to function. and so, that was always going to be an issue for harris that he really had to be better prepared to contend with and that didn't appear to happen. i think there were other issues where there were similar, there seemed to be a similar sort of lack of clarity on health care, on bussing, once she made it part of the campaign.
so i think those are, of course, you know, fundamentals that would be difficult for any campaign to overcome. >> now, when we look at the fact that there may be no black or brown people on the stage unless the polling data changes and we only have four days to do that, doug, do you think kamala harris should have stayed in at least past the next debate which is not that far -- what? less than two weeks away. and because she had, in fact, qualified for the debate. would you have advised her, doug, to -- because the ideas and because of the need for diversity of the debate, she should have waited to drop out? what would have changed in two weeks or less? >> well, rev, i think the financial situation was pretty dire. i don't know -- you know, i don't have all the numbers at the ready here but i do get a
sense that that was a real issue and i think that in some respects i give her credit because it allowed for her staff to potentially move to other campaigns rather than delay the inevitable. i think it's unfortunate if there aren't people of color on the debate stage but at the same time, you know, the rules were in place. i think everyone is able to compete fairly for both the number of donors to attain and pretty easily to achieve 4% in polls. but yeah. look. if you can't pay bills, it is hard to keep the campaign moving. >> noah, how important do you think from your analysis the diversity issue is to the democratic primaries as we go forward? in "the new york timesa
reporter had a really valuable piece about this a couple weeks ago. he talked to young, particularly young democratic voters who, many of whom were minorities or women and were talking about sort of confessing sheepishly they weren't supporting candidates who looked like them because they didn't share their interests. they were voting for people whose interests aligned with theirs. the piece had a headline that i thought illustrated a narrow outlook on the part of the left when it comes to identity. it said representation is not enough, but of course, representation definitionally is you finding people who support your interests, not people who share your demographic traits because they may not necessarily indicate your interests. and i think what we're looking at now is a democratic party that is coming to view the fact that most of these candidates who are representative of the interests of the democratic party, the political interests, may not necessarily reflect their desires to see candidates share the identities that make up most of the voting base. but these two things are not the same. you can have interests that are
not aligned with necessarily your racial outlook or gender. so i feel leak this is a healthy process even though it's one democrats are frustrated by. >> janell, there seems to be an overwhelming fervor in many of the communities of color is they also want the candidate that can beat donald trump. so at one level, you have those that are concerned about identity. another concerned about their interests. and it seems like a lot of people are saying to me on my radio show as i work with national action network, we need to beat donald trump. >> i think that certainly is what the polling would seem to suggest, that black voters as a group are primarily concerning themselves with dispatching donald trump. that this seems to be the chief priority, and in terms of policy priorities, as one of your other guests said, there are ways in which a kamala harris or other
candidates of color have not sort of clearly and specifically aligned themselves in ways that are consistent with what many black voters are after. there's a high degree of concern both about k-12 education, when much of the conversation at least on the debate stage has been about college financing. there's a high level of concern about health care, and in particular, questions around health care equity and access, and we're instead seeing these debates around, i guess sort of health care finance and/or insurance companies and sort of the structure of the health care system. it is certainly fair to say without question that a candidate sharing the ethnic or racial background of voters is simply not going to be enough. there's a lot of reporting to support that. the polling certainly supports that, but i do think there are also certainly people who have a lot of concern about the absence of people of color on the debate stage and whether or not issues that are of critical concern to
people of color are going to continue to take up some sort of priority space or some sort of priority time. or if those issues are going to be regarded as side issues or secondary things that debe dealt with if we have time. >> janell ross, doug thor nel, and noah rothman, thank you very much. >> up next, the confederate flag is in my final thoughts. stay with us. at fidelity, online u.s. stocks and etfs are commission-free.
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in 2015, dylann roof murdered nine black parishioners during bible study in charleston, south carolina. roof was a white supremacist, and many photos surfaced of him with posing with the confederate flag. and this past friday, former south carolina governor nikki haley said in an interview that the confederate flag represented, quote, service, sacrifice, and heritage for people in her state. before mass murdering roof hijacked its meaning. well, no, that is not true. the confederate flag represented slavery. it represented treason. it represented the dehumanizing of people because of the color of their skin. black people in the state of south carolina. in fact, i and many others marched in that state over the years to bring down the
confederate flag, even at the state house where nikki haley was governor. after roof's massacre at the church, i spoke at two of the funerals of the nine that were killed, as did then governor hallie. i said to her at the funerals, we marched on you about this flag, and she said, oh, i would have come out and given you a hug. it's not about a hug and not about trying to sanitize what that flag stood for. that flag stood for those that were kidnapped and subjected to servitude with no wages or rights. being held in that state and in other states. dylann roof, as despicable and murderous as he was, didn't start or hijack that flag. he inherited a legacy, a legacy that also was treasonous. that does it for me. thanks for watching. i'll see you back here next
saturday at 5:00 p.m. eastern. up next, "meet the press" with chuck todd. this sunday the road to impeachment. >> the president leaves us no choice. >> speaker pelosi says the house will draft articles of impeachment against president trump. >> the president has engaged abuse of power, undermining our integrity and jeopardizing the integrity of our elections. >> democrats debate whether to focus on ukraine or take a broader approach. >> a pattern of behavior. >> pattern of behavior becomes clear. >> while republicans continue to denounce the process. >> this is a sham. >> that's a sham. >> this whole production is a sham. >> my guest, jerrold nadler, chairman of the house judiciary