tv Morning Joe MSNBC January 23, 2020 3:00am-6:00am PST
works, how the presidency works. thinking, we know what's going to happen. >> and jim and have chvandehei, much. you'll see axios soon. that does it for us. i'm i'm yasmin vossoughian along with ayman mohyeldin. "morning joe" starts right now. they appear to be succumbing from the pressure of the administration. >> doing very well. thought our teal did a good job. we have all the material. they don't have the material. >> you have -- you have made the democrats' point. shown why 57, 58% of americans believe you have obstructed the investigation into your own impeachment, because you just admitted. we got it all, and we're keeping it from the investigators.
that is -- that would be called obstruction of justice in courts. that's obstruction of congress here and obstructing his own impeachment investigation and he just may not be smart enough to realize that's something he keeps inside his head. >> i don't think so. that was bad. you know, on sunday, adam schiff suggested the administration was withholding documents. on a wednesday, president trump said, pretty much, yep. good morning. it's thursday, january 23rd, this is "morning joe." along with us, national security expert and author of the book "the death of expertise," tom nichols and former u.s. attorney and contributor barbara mcquade is with us. in a moment, we'll show you key moments of adam schiff's opening
arguments. by most accounts a virtuoso performance that drew praise from all sides yesterday, even senator lindsey graham. it was a stunning recitation of the that weave together donald trump's abuses of power and obstruction of congress. that in a bit. >> why don't we see what the american people are thinking about these proceeding, because you listen to republicans, they will tell you that this has just been -- nancy pelosi's mishandled this. adam schiff's mishandled. the american people are angry. this is going to help donald trump and help the republicans so much. poll after poll after poll shows that to be a lie. we showed you the cnn poll a few
days ago. 57% believe he abused po ed pow the office, about the same amount believe he obstructed the investigation, purposely obstructed the investigation. almost seven in ten americans want to see relevant witnesses. all of those numbers proving that this impeachment and the truth coming with it, the proceedings, are hurting the president. now direct evidence how it's hurting him in head-to-head matchups where democrats appear to be breezing past tdonald trup now. joe biden, 53%. michael bloomberg. little mike, numbers against you, donald, he's big, bad michael bloomberg. bernie sanders, 52% to 45%, and
person he calls pocahontas, ahead of him by five percentage point. mayor pete by 4% and amy klobuchar by three points and, again, i hear trumpists on tv, read trumpists in the paper and on twitter. they're all whistling past the graveyard suggesting that this impeachment proceeding could not be going better for donald trump, and yet the american people in poll after poll suggest just the opposite is true. this is bad news for donald trump. >> if you look at almost any poll in these head-to-head matchups are people talk about the democratic race, the key element of it is, who can beat donald trump? yes, they want to talk about cue issues but democrats want to win. put up the graphic again.
you see all the way down the line, five, six candidates who can make the electability argument. peel say without evidence, really, elizabeth warren couldn't beat him head to head, she can make that case, john lemire, she can win. pete buttigieg, amy klobuchar and michael bloomberg can make that case, joe biden, and democrats want to win, in the tag, more than anything. and michael bloomberg can make the case, we know this is not a national referendum. we know that, but can make the case that, i can beat his president. >> it shows where the country is on evimpeachment. we've seen the numbers be consistent. president trump's base, 40-odd% of supporters don't want this to happen. think it's a sham.
most, majority of american people want to see it play out. as much as the trump campaign makes an argument this is going to be good for them and excite their base and only time will tell if that's true, numbers now, consistent public polling suggests that's not the case. cnn had a poll yesterday on the battleground states with these candidates an margins were closer, where this election will be decided. it goes to show you as much as we know or think we know what will be the virtual outcome of the trial in terms whether or not the president will be removed from congress, the political ramifications are yet to be determined. there's a chance, even if acquitted in a week or so from now, long-term damage. >> and 60% to 70% of americans want to see a fair trial. when the president of the united states goes out as you said in the clip, we've got a bunch of documents we haven't given them, saying we're withholding
evidence, those people say, wait a minute. that's not a fair trial. >> americans want at fair trial, impartial jurors and relevant witnesses, and mitch mcconnell and lindsey graham and the republican party have bragged openly they were not going to provide a fair trial to the american people. they weren't going to be honest brokers. they weren't doing to be impartial jurors, even though they raised their hand and swore a solemn oath that then would be and it is costing donald trump and the republican party right now. before we get on to impeachment. an interesting monmouth poll came out in the democratic field nationwide and it shows joe biden up doing pretty well. he and sanders seem to be top of the polls now. elizabeth warren 14%. look at this. michael bloomberg up four more percentage points since december. at 9%. three points ahead, pete buttigieg nationally and fo4%
points above is amy klobuchar. seems familiar what people said about another new york millionaire, or billionaire, whatever donald trump is, back in the early stages of his campaign. mike bloomberg, you know, not going to get past 3%. not going to get past 4%. looks like he's about to get in the double digits. >> yeah. doesn't have the celebrity donald trump had in 2016, and you could argue that the field is much more formidable than the one donald trump faced in 2016. amazing what a quarter of a billion dollars already in advertising in states across the country, big states like california, new york, super tuesday states, obviously not playing at the beginning, but laying the groundwork to be sitting pretty well especially if the vote is fractured. one person wins new hampshire, another iowa, another south carolina.
sitting there making the case, the democratic party hasn't made up its mind. here i am. i can beat donald trump. >> may not have the celebrity but way more money, some argue bugs trump and causes trump to focus on him, and that's only helpful to fuful to mike bloomb got the most powerful ads out there. >> and unlike donald trump, knows how to run things. >> that wouldn't be the end of the word. and senate impeachment trials are under way and democrats are laying out the case for president trump's removal from office. a serious of speeches on the floor yesterday lead impeachment prosecutor adam schiff along with six other house impeachment managers argued that president trump pressured ukraine in order to help him win re-election. schiff warned senates if trump
isn't held itable the damage to national security could be long-lasting. here is some of his floor presentation. >> president trump withheld hundreds of millions of dollars in military aid to a strategic partner at war with russia to secure foreign help with his re-election, in other words, to cheat. his scheme was undertaken for a simple but corrupt reason to help him win re-election in 2020. but the affect of this scheme was to undermine or free and fair elections and put our national security at risk. >> the president was the key player in the scheme. everyone was in the loop. he directed the actions of his team. he personally asked a foreign government to investigate his opponent. these facts are not in dispute. ultimately the question for you is whether the president's undisputed actions require the removal of the 45th president of the united states from office. i suggest to you today the only
conclusion consistent with the facts of law, not just the law but the constitution, is clear as described by constitutional law experts' testimony before the house, if this conduct is not impeachable, then nothing is. >> president trump's abuse of powers of his office undermine the integrity of our free and fair elections and compromised america's national security. if we don't stand up to this peril today, we will write the history of ow decline with our own hand. if president trump is not held to account we send the message to future presidents, future congresseses and future generations that the os of the president it fairly can precedent over those of the nation. >> we have for generations been the shining city upon a hill that president reagan described.
america's not just a country but also an idea, but what worth is that idea if when tried we do not affirm the value that underpin it? what will those nascent democracies around the world conclude that democracy is not only difficult but maybe that it's too difficult? maybe that it's impossible. and howho will come to fill the void when we leave that light upon a shining city is extinguished. if the president was fighting corruption, wanted them to pay more, why hide it from us? from the ukrainians, from the rest of the world? why wouldn't he be proud to say to the united states, i'll holding up this aid and i'm holding it up because i'm worried about corruption. why wouldn't he? because, of course, it wasn't true. >> and we're to believe they felt no pressure? folks, they've at war!
they're at war and they're being told you're not getting $400 million in aid you need, unless you do what the president wants, and what the president wants are these two investigations. >> if you don't believe that's pressure, that's $400 million worth of pressure. >> you've heard the other counsels say before, well, but they say they don't feel pressure. like they're going to admit they were being shaken down by the president of the united states. you think they feel pressure now? you should see what kind of pressure they feel if they admitted that. >> the president's counsel would love you to believe this is just about ukraine. you don't need to care about ukraine. who cares about ukraine? how many can find ukraine on the map? why should we care about ukraine? well, we should care an ukraine. they're an ally of ours. if it matters to us, we should care about the fact that in 1994 when we asked them to give up
their nike coluclear weapons in by the soviet union, they worried about proliferation. we said, hey, if you give them up because you're worried you don't want to because the russians might invade, we will help ensure your national integrity. we made that commitment. i hope we care about that. i hope we care about that, because they did give them up. you know what? just what they feared took place. the russian s moved across thei border and they remain an occupied part of ukraine. that's the word of america we gave. and we're breaking that word. why? for help with a political campaign. >> all right. >> yeah. >> something we've talked about on this show. actually over the past couple of years, after the invasion of ukraine, after vladimir putin
invaded ukraine. i remember jeffrey sax and others coming on, richard haass coming on saying we made a commitment to the ukrainians if they gave up their nuclear weapons we would protect their borders. of course, we didn't do that. now this president decides, again, he's going to withhold military funding unless, of course, they help interfere with american elections. particularly his election. i thought -- schiff's performance was a virtuoso performance yesterday. i'm so used to seeing immediate ork creaimmediate -- mediocrity, this cuts through. doesn't it? >> and made the case that resonates. one thing that struck me about the house laying out its case is that the narrative is so clear. it's not hard to follow. this isn't arcane. there's not -- yes, the
obligatory references to federal of '65 and things a lot of us haven't studied this college. >> "hamilton" got a lot of run yesterday. >> and recognized more and more. but to lay out this very clear narrative of an abuse of power specifically for personal gain that also injures the national security and puts a friend at risk at the hands of the russians. i think this really drove home the case. and i'm wondering now if mcconnell's, the -- the senate -- the republican senators before him that said we're going to sweep this thing away and we don't really want to do that, i wonder if that's starting to backfire, because it looks bad now. i think that the case laid out by the democrats was so strong that the republicans who just want to sweep it away now i think are having trouble making that case. >> barbara mcquade, adam schiff, former federal prosecutor argued before many jurors did that
yesterday for several hours in front of the united states senate. i couldn't help but think as he laid it out very clearly, tom said, from start to finish, with evidence, with testimony that they played on the video screen, and told a pretty compelling and clear story, if you are a republican senator who is against the conviction of the president, or one who's considering still the possibility that you may convict the president, how could you sit and listen to that and ignore that something very clearly happened between the president and the president of ukraine and that there was, in fact, a quid pro quo and that the president did use congressionally approved money for his own personal gain, held it up? >> well, adam schiff did masterfully what all prosecutor are trained to do, which is, not just to argue that the elements of a statute have been technically satisfied but to make the story come to life and explain to the jury why it
matters. people don't want to feel like they've convicted somebody just because, gotcha, there's a technical violation here, but that it matters that we have rules and laws for a reason, and what i thought adam schiff did prix will well, weaving the facts of the story and explaining why it runs so afoul of the values we share in america, and this much more pressing value of military aid to ukraine. why it's dangerous to us. adam schiff and jason crow made it well. we gave aid to ukraine to fight russia here so we don't have to fight a war here. it isn't just about our ally ukraine and doing what we said we would do, valuing our commitments to get that kind of reciprocity from other allies around the world but protecting americans, protecting the national security of us right here. if we allow russia to go unchecked in ukraine, then it is eventually going to end up at our doorstep. >> and schiff's passion shows
how personal this is to him and how it should be to all of us, because this is about america. and america is all of us. and yesterday's opening arguments, congressman schiff also urged republican senators over there reluctance to subpoenaing documents, such as the notes from white house officials, from conversations they had about ukraine. >> morrison says, ambassador sondland related no quid pro quo but president zelensky had to make the statement and had to want to dot it. no quid pro quo, but -- there's a quid pro quo. now, there are notes that show this. there's a written record of this. there's a written record of what president trump told ambassador sondland right after that call. would you like to see that written record? it's called mr. morris' notes.
right there. no even plausible, arguable invented ex-confuse for withholding these notes. wouldn't you like to see them? in any courtroom in america holding a fair trial, you would want to see contemporaneous notes. this senate should be no different. demand those notes. demand to see the truth. we're not afraid of those notes. we haven't seen them. we haven't seen them. maybe those notes say something completely different. maybe those notes say no quid pro quo. maybe those notes say it's a perfect call. i'd like to see them. i'm willing to trust ambassador taylor's testimony and his recollection. i'd like to see them. i'd like to show them to you. they're yours for the asking. >> jonathan, of course,
republicans don't want to see it. why? because they know what those notes say. they know that the notes, like all the other information that has come out, implicates the president and proves that this "drug deal" was dirty and it started at the very top with donald j. trump who has quite effectively obstructed justice and obstructed this investigation over the past several years. we think back to the mueller report. ten examples of obstruction of justice. seven eight of those, i would say, would land most people who weren't president of the united states in a trial and in jail. donald trump keeps obstructing investigations and keeps skating because republicans in the united states house and senate allow him to. >> the president tipped his hand in the clip we played saying we have the documents. we haven't turned them over. still obstruction.
what's happening here. the white house's legal strategy, they got away with it during the mueller probe that he was not impeached. cited examples of obstruction there in the report. not making a determination and of course the president's hand-picked attorney general william barr did not find obstruction and therefore would not proceed down that path. this is a -- the president yesterday was in davos you could tell trying to do a victory lap on the american economy bud pretty much interested in what was going home back home and we played a clip where he railed against the process and democrats being corrupt but said perhaps he would consider witnesses being called when that was not the legal strategy reminding what he said about the mueller probe, too, said of course he would sit down with
robert mueller. mueller didn't press him and more of the same. if there was an agreement to allow a john bolton to appear before the senate, executive privilege immediately invoked. that's been it. in the president's defense, we'll hear more in the coming days. nover about fighting the facts. it's about fighting the process. playing to an audience of one, going forward knowing barring unexpected the republican-controlled senate is simply not going to remove him from office. >> garrett haake up on capitol hill, limited at home from the senate view what's going on in that room. take us inside, if you can, based on your reporting. we heard some republican senators already complaining that the process is taking too long. that the arguments are repetitive. they're bored. some reportedly getting up, milling around. going into private rooms while adam schiff and others were giving opening statements. what is it like inside that room over the course of these 12-hour sessions? >> yes.
interesting. schiff probably a unique ability to command the audience in that room. the other managers run into this problem that we all face and probably blocked out of our brains like a freshman in high school trying to give a presentation to seniors and doesn't matter how good the presentation is they just don't want top listen. an elements of that when other managers are presenting. a lot of republicans particularly around the backs of chamber are getting up, stretching their legs walking around, passing notes,s with whirring to each other instead of paying attention to what's going on in it room. has to be intimidating to the managers. the fact these folks aren't listening. the other interesting thing that i have observed in the room is, most of the senators, in fact, all but one, are taking isn't ki notes. some perk up when they hear something interesting and right something wrong. the only without a scrap of paper, mitch mcconnell sits right in the front row, just a few feet away from where the
managers are speaking. and when he watches them does so silently. i think that also has to be potentially intimidating to the managers. the guy who's going to more than any other single person in the room decide the way, the direction this whole thing goes looking at you saying, that's all you've got? it's a really interesting dynamic. >> almost, mika, like his mind was made up going into this. >> yeah. sure sounds like it. >> yeah. all of them. quickly, another poll i want to read that, a little information on, mika, that's compelling. from the new pew poll that's out. 51% of americans support removal. greg sergeant notes, showing support. 53% of educated whites support removal. majority of educated whites support his removal, and get this -- for voters aged 18 to 29, voters under 30, 63%.
>> ah! >> of voters 30 or under support the removal of donald trump. you talk a democratic bomb for republicans? it's not coming. it's here. >> so garrett brought up mitch mcconnell and joe's column in the "washington post" is entitled "mitch mcconnell has failed the republican party." and's in it you write this. observing the behavior of republican senators during president trump's impeachment has shown just how craven the party of lincoln has become. senate leaders bring shame to themselves daily most gop senators are desperate to avoid votes that might require the smallest bit of political courage. but what do they have to fear? far from facing an existential crisis, these politicians are fretting over votes that would be supported by an overwhelming number of citizens, all america demands is a fair trial, and an
impartial jury and the calling of relevant witnesses. such heroism is neither expected nor required of republican senators sitting through trump's impeachment proceedings. all america demands is a fair trial, an impartial jury, and the calling of relevant witnesses. if mcconnell didn't deliver on those aspirational values, then his heart may be american, but his political soul belongs to a bombastic, and temperate buffoon. who shall we now look to for the liberation of the republican party?" it's a good question. still ahead on "morning joe," president trump suggests americans rather than ancient mesopotamians -- protecting the wheel. >> he's going to protect the wheel. he's going to protect the wheel. >> we'll be right back. be rig
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31 past the hour. in an interview with cnbc yesterday, president trump suggested that an american created the wheel. >> yes. >> we have to protect our juniors, protect thomas edison and we have to protect all of these people that came up with originally the light bulb and the wheel and all of these things. >> did they have to be presented? willie, what's long angered me. >> yeah. >> and i -- i rank it right up there with, of course, the russians stealing the '72 olympic basketball game. >> awful. yeah. >> that was horrible. the blown call at first base in the 1985 world series. >> hmm. >> and, of course, the finale of
"m.a.s.h.." those three things. right up there what really burns me, how the mesopotamians are claiming that they invented the wheel 5,000, 6,000 years ago and that cave men are now coming forward saying, if they had the early prototypes of the wheels -- come on. where do they get off saying that? they've got the geico commercials. do she in-othey have to have ev? we invented the wheel. president donald j. trump said it yesterday. light bulb, wheel, hours. >> steal it from another culture you don't want to go back 5,000 years. sneak back to dispute over it but it's pretty clear in 3000 b.c., something like that, 3500 b.c. >> we could go back 5,000 years. >> i was there. >> mike barnicle was there. >> there you go.
joining us now, inventor of the whe wheel, msnbc inventor of the wheel, mike barnicle. >> thank you. >> and joe vandehei. good to have you both. >> he does lock on to things like the wheel. >> goofy. >> he has verbal texts you can tell when he's completely lost and goes back and will repeat something two or three times. he's just -- he's just covering for his overall ignorance in just about every topic. >> some would say. >> as -- as was said earlier this week and it's -- it's one of the great rules about donald trump that, if donald trump claims to know everything on a topic, he knows nothing. claims to know nothing about a topic, he knows everything, and none of it is good. >> you know, joe, there's such a flood of disinformation that comes from him on an hourly basis that it's hard to hold him
to account on an hourly basis for what he says. last segment you were issues some news about different polls, young people under the age of 30 overwhelmingly for impeachment and stuff like that. well, yesterday on cnbc trump indicated that he would be willing to take a look at medicare funding, that he would be willing to cut it. and no one's talking about that. so if you're over 65, and you're on medicare, and stuff like that, i mean, this is the president of the united states saying he's willing, maybe, to, you know, strip you of a few rights and funding that you're getting right now, but nobody even held him to account. >> yeah. jonathan lemire, yesterday, of course, the president did go back on a campaign promise he made throughout 2016 where he said he wouldn't touch medicare, wouldn't touch social security. yesterday he said he would be open. open to cutting social security and medicare. talk about, since you've followed him around the campaign
trail, how much of a reversal that is from 2016, and what may have moved him to say that yesterday? >> it would be a complete reversal and certainly an odd election year promise to suggest to go after entitlements. this 2015-2016 he separated himself from the republican field saying he would protect, wasn't going to do this and as we discussed nearly every day, never really been a traditional republican and in areas, crossover appeal to independents and maybe disaffected democrat. this blindsided advisers yesterday and not a sense how true it would be. could have been the president rivering in an interview. as you say, sometimes he seems to talk to fill the space. but it's something obviously now we will see. 23 the white house has to engineer a plan like in the past when the president made some sort of pronouncement and then the white house has needed to sort of take it forward, or whether this is something that will come and go like just another news cycle, jim. >> the trigger was, he's meeting
in davos with all the ceos, one of the topics keeps coming up internally talking to conservatives is how can we as conservatives keep justifying the deficits we have if we keep running annual deficits above a trillion dollars triggers, not cutting defense, and the big daddy out there is social security and medicare. not doing toe this year, even next year if he were to win re-election. why people don't take it seriously. these throwing it out there and won't act on it. he doesn't want to act much on obamacare right now. a piece this morning he could do what he's done in previous arguments with the court and say expedite this. see if we really can repeal obamacare, the aca, they're saying no. slow track this, because they understand. look at results in that midterm election last tight around. democrats won not necessarily because of him. they won because of health care and there's deep concern that if you start to get rid of
protections for preexisting conditions and things popular with a large section of our population, it would backfire. >> and shows you the degree to which the president isn't taken seriously anymore. the president can say anything he wants, and as mike said, we don't hold him accountable, because we don't really take him that seriously. we don't assume it means anything. of course, as you pointed out, now that somebody in the staff has to reverse engineer this and somehow come up with this -- it's interesting. the president said, i don't want bolton talking, because he knows my thoughts. we all know his thoughts. he broadcasts them in random order. he has no inner monologue, so he puts them out there every day. some matter. some don't. some of them will eventually become something like policy and the rest kind of go off into the either and we ignore them. >> hate to give lemire credit for anything. >> oh. a first! >> the phrase, he talks to fill the space is perfectly appropriate for him, and he does
it multiple times a day with no consequences. again, we have all the information. they don't have information. i'd be willing to cut medicare. and we just move on and on and on. >> i'm going to bask in that compliment for a second, but, yes, mike what he often does. an advisers told me he's not necessarily interested in winning the news cycle for the day. he wants to win that moment. win that particular exchange with a reporter in this case and sometimes say thing leaving those in the white house shaking their heads. now we have to go back to the drawing boards and start over. >> his tell, mika or joe says, ends, and says, we'll take a look at that. doesn't have the an answer, looking at that, tell new two weeks. so much information out there, this fire hose, dissipates over time. we'll see what happens. >> right. oh, we'll see what happens. >> and folk up on what mike said, and i think what tom said, nobody ever pays for it.
he never pays for it. well, he does. two polls out this week where majority of americans say he deserves to be removed from office. he should be removed from office. the pew poll shows that 63% of americans under the age of 30 want him removed from office. the majority of white, educated voters want donald trump removed from office. believe he deserves toi be m removed from office. 58% believe he abused the presidency and needs to be removed from office. 53% say that. almost seven in ten americans say they need to see more witnesses. again, showing that everybody that came out before saying, oh, we don't need anymore witnesses are on the wrong side of history. donald trump is paying for all of this. alex, quickly i know we've got
to go to break, but show the matchups again. head-to-head matchups with democrats. i've been hearing trump apologists online, on twitter, on tv now for months saying that impeachment was going to be a disaster for democratic candidates, and it was going to be wonderful for donald trump. well, look at these numbers that trumpapologists -- michael bloomberg just got in the race. >> oh, my gosh. >> what? a month or two ago. he's ahead of donald trump by nine points. little mike? no, donald, actually looking pretty big, because you're in his shadow right now by nine points. bernie sanders. the avowed socialist, beating donald trump by 7%. elizabeth warren, the woman called pocahontas and mocked and ridiculed re ed repeated by don
trump, beating donald trump by five points. so, willie, you know, this does have an impact. the 16,000 lies or 13,000 lies have an impact. his lies about the quote "perfect call" have an impact. nobody thinks it's a perfect call. most americans believe he abused his office. most americans believe he obstructed justice. most americans believe he obstructed this investigation, and most americans think he needs to be impeached and removed. that's not getting away with anything, willie, and we're not even talking about the historic landslide the democrats won in 2018. >> it's another signal that poll you had, head to head, that americans don't like what they've seen. the evidence they've heard in this impeachment trial, and that they want the trial to be fair. they want it to be heard out. they don't like the fact that republicans came out beforehand led by mitch mcconnell and said we've made up our minds.
the president will be acquitted. they want a fair trial. people can smell something bad. they know what they smell, and they hear this ukraine story as laid out from start to finish by adam schiff yesterday, and they know it doesn't smell good. i will say, those are interesting general election head-to-head matchup polls nationally. but as jonathan said earlier, those states that are going to decide the election are airtight, and i don't think there's anybody this time around, they learned their lesson four years ago, that thinks they're going to breeze past donald trump at all given the kind of fighter he is. so we will see. coming up next on "morning joe," we'll talk to one. house impeachment prosecutors who's helping make the case for president trump's removal from office. congressman jason crow will be our guest next on "morning joe" plus more legal analysis from barbara mcquade when "morning joe" comes right back.
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farce, and into some kind of political theater. >> they are trying to turn it into a political theater, but i want no part of being any part of that, and i have no problem as you'll find out the rest of this campaign debating trump, debating the majority leader, debating lindsey graham. debaty any of these guys. i don't have any problem. look at my career of 36 years in the senate. they had problems debating me. and so, but i don't want it to turn into a farce, which is, this is a sacred constitutional question, and i always get asked the question, well, isn't the president going to be stronger and harder to beat if he survives this? the answer is, yes, probably, but -- but -- the congress has no choice. they have a constitutional responsibility, and the people who vote the way they may vote are going to have to live in history. >> former vice president joe
biden speaking to voters in iowa, but that idea of trading hunter biden for john bolton at the senate impeachment trial is quickly fading. >> so would you be open to say a witness trade for hunter biden? >> no. i think that's off the table. first of all the republicans have the right to bring in any witness they wants. they haven't wanted to, and that trade is not on the table. >> this isn't like some fantasy football trade, as i said yesterday. this isn't we'll offer this if you give us that. we'll offer you a witness that is irrelevant and immaterial, who has no relevant testimony but a witness that will allow us to smear a presidential candidate, if you want to get a legitimate witness. that's not a trade. trials aren't trades for witnesses. >> garrett haig, te-- garrett
haake, tell us what you're hearing. in the witness straight they're discussing, isn't it mixing apples with oranges? isn't this about whether or not the president shook down a foreign leader for dirt on a political rival? >> right. this idea of a witness trade started with ted cruz and really more of a poison pill on a question of a vote for witnesses than it is a serious effort to get hunter biden into the room, and the idea here suggested by cruz was, reciprocity. democrats get one witness, we get one witness. essentially hoping to scare away democratic votes for witnesses. if a democrat thinks we're not going to convict trump anyway, why bother to drag in joe and hunter biden and potentially weaken our front-runner. where the idea came from. you see the top democrats involved in the process both dismiss it completely. interesting to see whether white house lawyers try to do anything like what democrats have done to make a case for calling hunter biden. i mean, look at schiff yesterday using negative space for argue just getting documents from
ambassador bill taylor, for example. here's everything we think we know and here in the middle a dark spot that could be illuminated by these witness or by these documents. he's making a broad case. do white house lawyers come out and argue they desperately need hunter biden to come in or less convincing joe biden to come in and illuminate a dark space? then a more serious idea. right now, meant to be a poison pill on the vote for witnesses. >> got a window into the strength of the white house argument yesterday when jay sekulow one of the president's attorneys said outside the chamber, notice what's not in the articles of impeachment? the term quid pro quo. literally saying because the latin words quid pro quo do not appear in the articles of impeachment despite the fact the entire accusation for impeachment is there was a quid pro quo perhaps not used in that term, then that is somehow exonerating the president. that the house isn't saying it explicitly. if you were a prosecutor, a
defender in that room today and over the next couple of days, you know your audience is not just the 100 senators in the room but the american public as well. what should be the approach of the house prosecutors as they go forward, because as we know in this country, people will begin to tune it out. >> agreed. i think one of the things you have to do is try to knock down all of these straw men that republicans in the trump administration put up. even this idea you mention of quid pro quo. i've been involved in many public corruption cases and no one ever uses the phrase quid pro quo. people don't talk that way. it's a latin phrase. the way it happens, though, someone says i need something, and someone says, yes, but i'm going to need a favor, though. that's the way it works in the real world. people talk in the way it was so aptly put, in terms of two plus two equals four. rational and reasonable inferences. the other thing that democrats can really knock down is,
president trump's own mantra of read the transcript. you know, he is not good at too many things, one thing he's really good at being a salesman and coming up with quick, slick marketing terms that are memorable light read the transcript. trying to draw all focus to one call only one call to say it's a perfect call and it's anything but. look at the summary, he demands that quid pro quo saying i'm going to need a favor, though, in response to the request. one of the things that democrats have done and continue to do is point out that this case is about more than one call. just before that call kurt volker talking to a ukrainian aide to spread zelensky saying during the call you're going to need zelensky to ensure to president trump he's going to get that investigation. all of these other things. the months' long campaign by rudy giuliani. by painting that picture this was an extortion scheme not just one phone call, perhaps you can enlighten people who get their
news from other sources and maybe haven't heard these things before. >> garrett, any talk among democrats that there has been kind a surprise about the bidens and witness swap thing at the expense of maybe getting materials they're looking for? >> i think this is a biden witness swapping thing it got floated as one of these interesting conversations that came up in a lunch but never seriously a part of the strategy here. i don't think most democrats believe there's a good-faith effort that would actually generate additional republican votes. remember the way this is structured. there's going to be one vote first on this broader question of witnesses before there are, perhaps, additional votes on who specifically gets called. so it's hard to see how floating the trade or seriously pursuing the idea of a trade gets you over that four-vote hump. i want to add something to what barbara was just saying here. democrats would be perfectly happy if the president tweets, read the transcript" 100 times a day. democrats have taken on the
strategy they believe that memo, notes of that conversation from the july 25th call, is the smoking gun. would love to have more people go out and read the transcript, because they think it's just as damning at the president thinks it's exculpatory. >> jim, talk about how it all applies and factors into the 2020 race when you go out and talk to people. seems to be a feeling of, call me when it's over. let me know what happens in the end. a lot of people feel they know the facts of this case by this point. how does it play in the campaign both among voters, but also among the candidates? i think joe biden and others, pete buttigieg, their campaigns wouldn't say it out loud, but certainly it doesn't hurt that three of the central players in this primary race are stuck in washington listening to 12 hours a day of impeachment testimony while joe biden and pete buttigieg and others are on the ground. >> taking yourself off the field at a critical jung khm al junkc great in a campaign.
short attention spans. wouldn't be surprise fundamental they're hardly talking about impeachment around the election because of other controversy by then. interesting, and mike and i talked about this offset. what watch they're doing on the legal argument. moving away from, ah, it's a fine call, or you know, there's nothing to see here, to, whatever. if you prove all of it, there's no crime. that's why they liked the quid pro quo. there's no crime. why didn't you charge us with a crime? and make their defense so elastic, regardless what happens with witnesses or regardless what happens with new reports, they're going to say, fine. should have charged a crime. a crime, evict me from office. but it's not so leave me alone. that is very trumpian and done it very slowly and now you see it speeding up. i'd watch for more of that. >> all right. jim vandehei, garrett haake, barbara mcquade, thank you all. still ahead, dismantling the president's legal arguments on ukraine, from claims about
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the house managers were proposing yesterday is basically to destroy the institution of the presidency as we know it. >> if i were the president i wouldn't cooperate with these guys at all. >> schiff, nadler and pelosi impeach this president and in 48 days. i wouldn't give them the time of day! they're on a crusade to destroy this man, and they don't care what they destroy in the process of trying to destroy donald trump. i do care. >> we've just come out of listening to a six, six hours of testimony so far today. i didn't hear anything new at
all and we were here all day yesterday for about 13 hours. no new material presented. it still seems to me as this was an effort by democrats in a very partisan way to bring a case against president trump, because they weren't happy with the results of the 2016 election. >> i think the fact that they are using visual aids and thinking that you can just take the same information and if you throw it out there enough it will change maybe anyone's point of view, i don't think that's going to work. >> all righty. beautiful pink skies over washington. >> you're looking at -- that's beautiful. >> gorgeous. i'm distracted by it. >> i love it. that is very beautiful. >> happening inside, not so much. >> and almost a beautiful world republicans are living inside their heads. must be wonderful to live there, except poor lindsey graham.
willie, it's sad, sad figure, a column in the "washington post" i commented about lindsey briefly. here's a guy who's chairman of the judiciary committee. heard him screaming there about, oh, this is horrible. they want to take this man down. it's just the worst thing -- what lindsey graham said about donald trump back before donald trump was in power. back before he was president of the united states. back before he thought he was going to be president of the united states. he once declared trump unfit for office. he called for his exclusion from the republican party. said the republican party should kick donald trump out. >> hmm. >> and he tweeted that the best way -- this is lindsey o. graham, the guy you just heard scree screaming saying they just want to kick him out of office -- lindsey graham said the best way to make america great again, was
"tell donald trump to go to hell." that's what lindsey graham said. tell donald trump -- lindsey graham -- tell donald trump to go to hiell. said he was unfit to be president of the united states. unfit to be commander in chief, that it was troubling how much he was complementing vladimir putin, and then, of course, this same governor from south carolina had the audacity to compare the impeachment of donald j. trump to a lynching. he called it a lynching. now -- i don't know champion lindsey to believe, because, of course -- >> a lot of them. >> there are a lot of lindseys there. >> got to be cybill tonight. a lot of lindsey grahams. and south carolinians, got to be
concerned about which lindsey they're getting at the election because he changes all the time. but majority of americans i don't think they think it's "a lynching." they don't think it's people going out -- the overwhelming majority of americans want a fuller trial, want a fairer trial, want relevant witnesses, believe donald trump obstructed this investigation, believe that donald trump abuseded powers of his office 63% of people under 30 in america think donald trump should be impeached and removed from office. i say all this just to say, to follow-up, willie, what i said yesterday. they're living in an echo chamber like the romney campaign lived in an echo chamber in 2012, and it's going to end really, really badly for them, and all the little trumpists that are running around trying to -- to play to an audience of one. th
this ends badly, willie. all you have to do, look at the polls in front of our faces to see that. >> lindsey graham is not alone on the list of republicans who went after in very personal terms candidate donald trump in 2015 and 2016. and then when he became president, thinking of marco rubio, ted cruz and others, he hugged him very closely. amazing what power in washington will do. i think that's not surprising to hear senator lindsey graham attack the process like he did yesterday saying democrats are trying to destroy the american presidency, but when we talk about some of those people that you've talked about, who are in tough elections right now, may want to take this process seriously, you have to look at somebody like thom tillis and senator tillis of north carolina came out yesterday and post add video to twitter, in fact, wrote and said, "this sham impeachment is a waste of america's time and the people of north carolina are getting tired of it." so for the people who are holding out and hoping some of
these republicans will sit and hear the presentation by adam schiff and the house managers and suddenly have a come to jesus and epiphany and say, you know what? the president ought to be impeached, i think you'll be waiting in vain when you see something like thom tillis making the comment he made yesterday. >> thom tillis waiting in vain for independent swing voters to support him. a guy sitting in low 30s in approving rating in his entire career in the nighunited states snat. be senate. barely won when he won last time. under water, cory gardner in colorado, pounded in head-to-head matchup there. susan collins, joni ernst, thom tillis under water and four of those five, tom, have approval ratings mired in the 30s.
and yet these people are still blindly following donald trump a guy who majority of americans want impeached and removed from office. explain it to me, because i don't -- as denzel washington said in "philadelphia," explain it to me like i'm a fifth grader, because i don't understand. >> where are they going to go? they've already let go of the -- they're like a trapeze artist half way across to the other guy, except that donald trump's not there. not there for them. they've taken the leap. they've had to go to the wall early on. i mean, this is a phenomenon we've seen with these so-called moderate republicans, where they think, i just have to defend trump a little more, and it can't get worse, and then it gets worse. they say, if i just go one more inch, and pretty soon they find that the only people that they can rely on are the base, which,
of course, on something like this, is starting to shrink, and mcsally in particular did that kind of weird hostage video, tried to come across as very trumpian, very angry, but i'm not sure that that's convincing anybody, but i think, joe, the answer is, you know, what else are they going to do? what other choice do they have at this point? they've committed. >> well, you know, it was said that trumpism is not scalable. it's not. obama wasn't skellable. riggen wasn't skellable. reigh hadn't a set of talents he could carry through on. bill clinton, the same. barack obama, the same. and donald trump, the same. it's not scalable and john heilemann, somebody like martha mcsally tries to be donald trump, it's embarrassing. and, yes, she may raise a couple of dollars that day, but all she does is gin up opposition to such a degree her opponent's
going to raise even more. so explain to me. you're in iowa. explain to me why jodie ernst, for instance, something a lot of us had a lot of hopes for. joni ernst, served this country proudly said she'll take care of squealing pigs at trough and deficit exploded since she's been in office. the biggest bloated government budget in the history of the united states under joni ernst, and an explosion of spending unseen since joni ernst has come to washington, d.c. but explain why joni ernst would blindly fall in line with donald trump in a state that, really, still seems to be a swing state in 2018. democrats picked up quite a few states. >> yeah. >> it's not like he's popular. >> nope.
>> well, joe i think that joni ernst is among the many senators that are in a bind for sure. i think she looks at -- i'm not trying to credit this analysis, it's a tough call for her purely on the politics -- looks at donald trump in 2016 which he won the state not by a little. won it by nine, ten points in iowa and looks at that and says if there's going to be big trump turnout, most analysts think there's going to be in 2020. all assume a tight general election. a state he carried by nine or ten points, she's looking for trump coattails. werther you think -- i agree with you about the scaleability question, but joni ernst thinks it, and a big debate whether the state did be clawed back into the blue territory. true two congressional districts got flipped to democrats in 2018. there are some democrats who think that with the right candidate at the top of the ticket this could become a blue state again but i think joni
ernst is making her bet. of the various vulnerable senators you put up on the board, the least like when chips are down, vote on witnesses, plee least likely to feel politics push her into having a real trial than others on that list. >> despite the fact she and donald trump are upside-down when you look at the polls and go to colorado. cory dagardner still blindly following donald trump despite he's in the election, re-election of his life. look at the numbers in colorado. donald trump's approval rating in colorado is 39%. his disapproval is 57%. this is -- this is, like, saying the "titanic" as it's going down, hey, that looks like a nice trip. i'm going to row over there and jump onboard. he's losing to hickenlooper by
13 percentage points. why would cory gardner with all of the numbers stacked against him, still blindly follow a guy who's going to clearly lose in colorado? >> the question continues to be where would they go? i think when you laid out all the things lindsey graham said about president trump before he was elected president, you realize why president trump is so paranoid and why he's buffed the republican party in so many different ways and why now shows no loyalty to the republican party when it comes to trying to make their lives easier. ed the president continues to say he's the head of the party and when done in a lot of scandals and controversies he'd had, republican senators have to be questioned on tough topics. the reason cory gardner for at least now is sticking with the president and a lot of republicans are is because they
are afraid of the trump voters who will turn around say not only was president trump acquitted because mitch mcconnell thinks that's pretty much a likelihood as much of washington does, but also think they don't want to face the crowds of people who say, you were wrong. president trump is cleared and you were one of the republican senators who bucked the party and did not support him in the way you should have. >> you know, mike barnicle, the question has been raised a couple of times around the table, where do they go? where does gardner go? where does joni ernst go? they go where i went. they go to the voters. voting against a republican decision, if i was pushing the republican speaker of the house out of town, i mean, out of washington, d.c., and out of his position, i went to the voters. i had town hall meetings. i explained why, and i get 80%, 81% of the vote in republican primary contests, and -- and won
all of my contests easily, because when i had to make a tough choice, i went to the voters and i explained to my base why. and you know what they said every time? okay. that makes sense, joe. okay. well -- didn't like you actually running newt gingrich running out of town, but we get it. okay. you've explained. so where do you go? you don't have to grab hold to donald trump's coattails as he's dragging you over the cliff into political oblivion and yet i've not seen a single republican willing to trust their voters, willing to trust the base by simply telling them the truth. >> yeah, but, joe, when you went to the mid-90s you weren't carrying the baggage
cory gardner and joni ernst are carrying. they're carrying luggage filled with bar bells. they're carrying what the country is facing, supporting donald trump, but people -- they're not watching this narrative unfold hour by hour. they're busy with their own lives. but the narrative is compelling you get from adam schiff and others. the narrative is very compelling and end of the day people understand two thing. trials with no evidence and no witnesses is a bag job. that's part of what they're carrying to country in colorado in iowa, in north carolina, thom tillis. that's a tough task to carry to voters, unless you're willing to cop to the truth, i'm also in the satchel. i am in the bag to the president. try explaining that to your voters in a town hall meeting. >> north carolina voters will know the process is rigged. maine voters will know that susan collins is rigging the process. colorado voters are going to
know that cory gardner is rigging the process. arizona voters are going to know that martha mcsally is rigging the process. iowa voters are going to know that joni ernst is rigging the process. they don't want the truth to come out. they don't want the documents to come out. they don't want the witnesses to see the light of the day. they don't want americans to know the truth. they're rigging this system. and they're the ones who will ultimately pay the political price. speaking of politics, let's go from washington, d.c. to iowa. talking about impeachment a lot this morning. john heilemann, you were out yesterday with joe biden. reports are that the former vice president had one of his better days. you saw him. you were on the ground with him. tell us what was going on. give us the update. >> he had a good day yesterday, joe. started obviously on this program doing an interview with you guys, and this was the last day of an iowa swing he's been
on for a few days now. taking the day off today and then going to pop up in new hampshire overt weekend. i saw him at that event innocent osage, iowa, the northern part of the state, you guys played a clip from earlier. made news where he talked about, asked by a voter about whether he would participate in a swap, the notion of his or his son testifying or being a fwhns the impeachment trial in exchange for a mick mulvaney or john bolton being a witness in the impeachment trial and news reported he swats it down forcefully. tell you, in the room, a vfw hall. quite good in the room as he's been this week in general. i think they feel things breaking their way in a lot of respects. he's enjoying this fight with bernie sanders. nothing a politician like joe biden likes better than being attacked by someone on grounds that are demonstrably false and able to be, have the moral high ground and it's opened the door to him, hitting sanders on
issues that are strong issues. issues like sanders' views on guns. remember, in 2016 hillary clinton used to her advantage. in that room, in that moment, the thing that really struck me, as that discussion of impeachment played out, with this voter who raised the question, joe biden turned to the topic of hunter biden and gave what struck me as, easily the longest, fullest, most nuanced and most human explanation, discussion of hunter biden that i've heard him give anywhere and asked reporters who follow him on a daily basis as i don't whether i was right or wrong. seemed unusual. all said, yeah. that was unusual. we've not heard him talk at that length about hunter biden before and he discussed the "new yorker" piece, the famous piece hunter participated in last summer and i will say for democrats who are concerned that, watched biden's performance in the last few months and worried if he becomes
the nominee and we get to the general election and donald trump continues to seize on hunter biden and using him to his joe biden, on hunter biden, as we all expect he will, anyone who's worried that joe biden can't handle that, if you saw him yesterday in this event, i think he's ready for that attack. >> and on our show yesterday, meeting the moment for sure. john heilemann mentioned iowa monday february 3rd you can be part of our live audience and "morning joe" broadcasts from java joe's. >> yeah, baby. going back to java joe's. we love java joe's. >> where it all began, in des moines. discussing the presidential race as iowa voters head to caucus that evening. register now at mjin in iowa.eventbrite.com. >> remember java jobe'e's, hs t
pull mike barnicle. >> one small mistake. >> the past is the past. >> and not let me get away with something. willie and i used up all the chips we are in iowa back there in 2008. it has taken us 12 years, mike -- 12 years -- >> 12. >> to gain a few back. so, please -- please, mike barnicle. >> spent 30 days in jail in des moines. it's over. >> still wearing the ankle bracelet. >> well, keep your ankle monitoring bracelet on the second you hit the ground. okay? we don't want that to happen again. >> okay. coming up later, also we'll give you information on our new hampshire shows, south carolina, it goes on. >> not going to tell you what barnicle -- >> and one of the prosecutors pressing the case against donald trump joins us next. congressman jason crow is standing by. we'll be right back. trump: "all of this with the
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and while our friends were at war with russia, wearing sneakers, some without helmets, something else was happening. on july 25th president trump made a phone call. he spoke with ukrainian president zelensky and asked for a favor. and on that same day just hours after his call his administration was quietly placing an illegal hold on critical military aid to support our friends. >> joining us now, democratic congressman jason crow of
colorado. he is a combat veteran a member of the armed services committee and serves as a prosecutor in the impeachment case against president trump. thank you very much for being on the show this morning. >> congressman, we were talking earlier about how the united states and -- >> good morning. >> -- other western powers went to ukraine and we made a deal with them. gish up your nuclear weapons and we will protect your borders, integrity of your border. we, of course, failed to do that after russia invaded, and with that as backdrop, seems that donald trump's withholding of almost $400 million in defensive military aid to help rig an election only adds insult to injury, and, really, damaged america's foreign policy in a way that i think most americans still don't comprehend. >> we did make a deal with them and the american hand shake should matter. you know, end of the day, if i hope there's one thing i impart on the american people here is
that, this is not some political theory exercise. you know. this is real people. real lives. there are bullets flying. there are artillery rounds coming down in eastern ukraine today, every day. there are people getting hurt, and these people are our friends. we have over 60,000 u.s. troops and their families stationed not too far from that area. so this is real stuff. real people are getting hurt. that's why we're presenting this trial in a very serious and the sober way that we are. >> congressman, willie geist. good to see you, a new poll came out overnight showing 72% of americans agree this trial should allow witnesses with firsthand knowledge of the impeachment charges to testify. that includes 69% of republicans. so the american people want to hear what you have to say. they want to hear this case play out, but the audience you're speaking to in that room is those senators.
and many of them came out before the trial and said we're not going to convict this president. you had thom tillis come out yesterday, the republican from north carolina, saying the process is a sham. the people of his state are sick and tired of it. at you get up there and stand at that podium and look out at those faces, are they listening to you? any sense they're considering the argument you're making, and do you hold out any hope you may change some minds in that room? >> willie, we are talking to both audiences. talking to the american people and to the united states senate because the american people have a vote in all of this, too, and the american people, by the way, many serve and juries and have sat down in county courthouses and district courthouses around america. heard witnesses, seen evidence, documents, and passed judgment on their fellow countrymen and thinking, why should it be any different with president trump and in washington, d.c.? the answer, it shouldn't. they see that clearly and why the numbers reflect that.
but end of the day, the senate does have to pass judgment here. i do think they're taking it seriously. at least the ones i've seen, people taking notes, people listening and they should, because they've taken an oath to take impartial justice but we're going to see. seep in the coming days what happens with witnesses, with documents. the ultimate judge how serious they're taking this or whether or not they'll be a rubber stamp for the president. >> congressman, it's jonathan lemire. you sit on the armed services committee, a green beret. you framed this in national security temples. tell us why that's so important and what should we expect to hear from you today? >> i spent my life in service to this country. my career in public service started as a private in the u.s. army. wearing boots. sitting there and just executing orders and being at the opposite end of decisions being made in this town in washington and never forget that. never forget what it felt like to be in those boots having to
execute orders and be on the receiving end of that. i think about that every day. i've been thinking about that every day of the trial. that that matters. again, real people's lives are at stake here. it's our sons and daughters, our brothers and sisters, our mothers and fathers that are going down range that are picking up rifles and having to do this stuff and that's why this is so important and serious. if the president of the united states wants to use national security funds and jeopardize our national security and put our men and women at risk and american allies at risk for a campaign, the american people will know about it. and know about it whether now or down the road. that's the other message we're sending to the u.s. senate. this stuff is coming out whether in books or movies or in some future administration that releases these records. it's going to come out. the question right now in front of everybody is whether or not they want it to come out now when it matters the most during this trial and what side of history they want to be on.
>> so socongressman, stick who u are, wearing the boots you referred to. a lot of people watching this are dipping in and out of it each and every day because they have their own lives to lead and think the issue of ukraine basically is all about money that was not sent to ukraine and it's only money, but if you could with your experience and your knowledge, take us to a forward operating base in the ukraine. what they're waiting for in terms it of weaponry, in terms of technology that would save their lives that would help them and, therefore, help us, that they didn't get when they were looking for it? >> yeah. absolutely. this is a lot more than about money. this is equipment, training. advisers training these soldiers and on how to fight, how to respond to attacks. i talked yesterday about this counterbattery radar. this radar that shows when there are mortars and rockets coming in. shows locations thoef moo respo
knock out enemy fire. this is important. sending medical equipment, night vision goggles. russian insurgents every night try attack and get within hand grenade positioning of the bunkers. wide range of military aid built in the united states by u.s. companies, by u.s. men and women. so we're supporting u.s. businesses here, too. so this is stuff that matters. it matters now, and timeliness is important, too. every second seems like a minute in combat. every minute seems like an hour. every hour seems like a day. so getting it now matters and the fact there was a major delay here was a big problem. >> congressman, yamiche has a question for you, yamiche
alcindor. >> since the beginning of the senate trial, seeing clips played over and over again. heard twice twice on the white house lawn, should have investigated joe biden. are you worried the senate, and maybe the american people, might tune out if they feel as though things are being repeated? >> the folks like you and me, sitting here watching the whole thing, it might seem like repetition, but the american people are busy. they're working. raising kids. going to the school. going to work. they're not sitting down all day watching this entire trial hours on end. they're tuning in, tuning out. that's why we're making sure we're going back and reiterating certain points so, that in people's very busy lives. they're living lives and doing what people always do, getting the full picture here. the second thing, this is the first time the u.s. senate has seen the full case presented in washington package. we had weeks of hearings before. we had months of inquiry.
this is all being brought together into one, full, complete and frankly damning package against the president. you're seeing the president's own words, the words of his closest advisers, seeing the words of his political appointees. it's pretty clear what happened. >> congressman, tom nichols here. look at the stakes for a minute beyond the impeachment. if the american people don't take this seriously, if the senate finally chooses not to take this seriously and aquits what does this say about our security, our national security, and the security of our friends in europe in a place where one of our friends is actually at war with russia in the middle of europe? a place that could erupt into world war iii? if all of this somehow is made to somehow go away or swept under the rug, what does that do to us, our security and security of our allies in the future? >> well it would clearly set a very dangerous precedent. that's what we're trying to
avoid from happening. this matters. american national security matters and frankly i think the american people understand this. i think they realize it. regardless what does or does not happen under the dome here in washington, and what the senators do and do not do. the american people get this, because it's the american people that have been having to do the heavy lifting. we've been at war for almost 20 years. millions of people have served in the armed services during that time. it is our sons and daughters, our brothers and sisters that picked up rifles and put on uniforms that do this stuff. they get it. so they understand it. what we're trying to do is make sure we're not setting a dangerous political precedent for future administrations to do the right thing. i think everybody would want that to happen. prevent that precedent from being set. what that would mean is, any future administration, republican or democrat, could then just ignore congress. could just ignore oversight and subpoenas. that's not what the founders intended or what the
constitution intends and we're not going to let that happen. >> congressman jason crow, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning, for everything that you're doing. >> yeah. you know, it's -- let's take a break, a quick break from talking about impeachment. talk about an important event that's also happening today. >> yeah. big. >> it's john heilemann's birthday today. did you know that? >> oh, wow. >> heilemann. >> wow. >> he doesn't like it. so cute. >> for a subset of american youth, willie geist. . what do you suspect -- >> the dark web. >> the dark web exactly. what do you suspect john heilemann does on his birthday? >> please, don't. >> it's a family show. >> hearon the problem, though. i know what john heilemann does on his birthday and i don't want to share it with our "morning joe" viewers. it may change the way they think about john heilemann. john, happy birthday, none the
less. >> how much of a change? they think i'm a degenerate to begin with. how much worse can it get? >> oh, it can get worse. trust us. >> only working in iowa, any big plans today? >> you're all typically kind and it's always great to be with you on this day, because you all express such fondness, kind of the way every family does for its members with kind of bitterness and hatred in its heart. >> that's right. >> you know, i feel like old as dirt today and plan to take measures to have a sense of restoration and as willie said, best not to discuss those at least on public television. >> only because he doesn't like to share his faith on camera, but this man -- that's his code for saying, he's going to be digging back in through leviticus, which he reads leviticus every birthday. >> yes. >> and -- >> okay.
john, thank you. >> i plan to be doing some praying and discussing that whole barnicle thing. the iowa state troopers still talk about barnicle from that incident you talked about earlier. >> one time! only one time. >> have a drink and laugh about that later tonight. thank you, guys. >> okay. coming up with less than two weeks to go before the iowa caucuses joined by president obama's former deputy of staff, jim messina to discuss the state of the race. as we go to break, a look at the latest issue of "time" magazine. this week's cover story entitled "youth quake foreshadows the political upheaval coming as millennials the most diverse interconnected generation in american history begin to wield their power." "morning joe" is back in a moment.
we now know 11 u.s. servicemen were air lifted from iraq. can you explain the discrepancy. >> i heard they had headaches and a couple other things but i would say and can report it is not very serious. >> you don't consider potential traumatic brain injuries serious? >> they told me about it numerous days later. you'd have to ask the department of defense. no, i don't consider them very serious injuries relative to other injury ives seen. i've seen what iran has done with their roadside bombs to our troops. seen people with no legs and no arms. seen people horribly, horribly injured in that area, that war, and in fact in many cases put those, those bombs put there bier soleimani who's no longer with us. i consider them to be really bad injuries. no. i do not consider that to be bad injuries, no. >> that was president trump yesterday down. playing troops being tested for head injuries after an iranian air strike on military bases in
iraq earlier this month. the "wall street journal" reports the comments have prompted criticism. you don't have to leave it to the wmp wc"wall street journal, veterans say, of course, these have lasting consequences. a blow to the president of the united states. veterans groups, even those who like donald trump couldn't believe what they heard. the entire problem with tbi, they have lasting impacts and are serious injuries. >> the people who decide it's a serious injury are doctors, and military personnel. if you're evacuated from iraq and you're sent to a military hospital, it's serious. for the president to say it's a headache. not like they got their legs blown off is one of those, again -- as you said earlier, sort of talking to fill the space. i just needed to say something, and also i think there's a
second agenda under that, which is, he doesn't want to go further with iraq. if he admits these might be serious injuries, it puts him in a bad situation, because the next question will be, well, then what are you doing about it? so he minimizes it, because you can't see it. he says some guys have a headache. it's not like there were limbs laying around. you know? that is just a typical kind of callous thing that i think was really a sad and offensive thing for the president to say. >> quickly further and underscore that point. that's part of the calculation. not wanting to escalate the situation with iran. feel they have a nice, tidy win. the white house believes iran is not retaliated further and want to move on and talk about other things and don't want it to escalate and devolve into more tension and potentially more violence. >> you could do that, mika, without downplaying a crisis among our military. active duty and veterans that is true. world leaders, by the way,
gathered in israel this morning to commemorate the 75th anniversary of the liberation of auschwitz. ahead of today's events, house speaker nancy pelosi and a congressional delegation visited the former world war ii nazi death camp on tuesday. the group laid a wreath at the death wall, an area of the camp where more than 1 million people were executed during the holocaust. this is -- really incredible, and a momentous time in history to remember and never, ever forget. it's really good she's there. up next, a conservative group is trying to get the president's attention with a new ad entitled "president pence." "morning joe" is coming right back. we made usaa insurance for members like martin.
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pike pence doesn't grab about sexually assaulting women. >> grab them by did -- >> mike pence doesn't pressure foreign governments into investigating his political rivals. >> mike pence doesn't mock and make fun of people with handicaps. >> you've got to see this guy. oh, i don't know what i said. >> donald trump is being impeached. it's time for president pence. at least it's an improvement. >> that is a new ad from the group defending democracy together. and joining us now is the group's founder and director, bill crystal. also with us, columnist and deputy editorial director from "the washington post," bill brag. >> i get so tired of people telling me the election is going to be reversed. i think half the people that watch fox news and the president think that if he's impeached or
move that hillary clinton or nancy pelosi will become president. let's remind them that the president will be mike pence, a pretty conservative republican. if you like deregulation, mike pence will deregulation industry, just in the same way. he'll keep the cabinet, etcetera. so i'm not a huge fan of mike pence, but i think it was worth reminding people of that. and maybe president trump will see that and get a little worried that pence is moving behind the scenes to encourage people to replace him. so we have a website, presidentpence.com to get that idea bouncing out there. >> became, what do you make of what you're seeing right now in this moment? tom tillis was out yesterday saying this process is a sham, that they've made up their minds before they enter the room. do you see any possibility of any republican shifting off their position? >> not much. i mean, they're pretty good as disappointing you over and over.
the republicans, i suppose by now it's idiotic to be disappointed because one should have learned one's lesson. there's still a chance some might vote for some circumstances. mcconnell set it up in a way that there's trap doors and then there will be a private deposition somewhere half of which will be classified and there would be executive privilege claims and so forth. i do think total and utter capitulation of the party, maybe ours was slow on this. maybe i had wishful thinking of the memory of the old days, but the degree of it is astonishing. in the last two months, too, it got worse. there were people like nikki haley who would kind of have kept some distance. if you were looking at them, it was the most admirable thing in the world, but they were maneuvering to be not totally all in for trump and not hostile for trump, either. they've all gone all in. i don't understand it fully. you think they might have some interest in making a bet it's
not the right place to be. the pressure is so great from the conservative grassroots. and what is underestimated is the rationalezation and legitimatezation of trump by the least conservatives and republicans. it's not just that they're hearing from the grassroots of people at town halls, hey, you have to stay with trump. i heard this, they go to the country club and they're saying, i read "the wall street journal" editorialal page and why aerchbt you standing with trump? so the degree of capitulation of conservative business elites, republican political elites, that really is a sounding, i think. >> ruth marcus, another astounding thing is having the chief justice of the united states, you've written about this in "the washington post," presiding over this trial. presiding, i use that word loosely because he is just there. but do you wonder justice roberts being there and his -- no matter what you think of the decisions the court has come out with under his tutelage or his leadership, actually, justice
roberts is viewed as a fair man, someone who reveres the law. but he sat there while the president's team has begun their defense with a series of blatant lies. you wonder what must be his reaction. >> i think he's sitting there thinking when will this all be over and couldn't the framers have found somebody else to stick in this chair. but i think the chief justice did a good thing when he admonished both sides to tone down the rhetoric. but i don't think that we would be well served or that the court would be well served in the long run if he were to really take -- i know this is frustrating to people -- but if he were to take a really aggressive position where he might be perceived as doing too much to put a thumb on the scale for one side or the
other. i think that's bad for the court. it's bad for the chief justice. it's bad for the country. and it's not really what the framers had in mind when they put him in that chair. they put him in that chair because the vice president who would have ordinarily presided was actually in the olden days a political rival of the president. so that wasn't going to do and they had to put somebody there. but that doesn't mean they wanted him to be more than a kind of ministerial presiding officer. >> ruth, following up quickly on some of the mechanics of the trial, we keep hearing the phrase executive privilege, that the president and around him, that those around him expect he will invoke it if a john bolton or others were perhaps called as a witness. tell us your thoughts as to how you see that playing out in the days and weeks ahead. >> this could be a really complicated question and the correct legal answer is we don't know. we don't know the answer to the question of whether executive privilege applies in any event to a senate impeachment. we know exact privilege exists. we know it's not absolute.
so if the president says executive privilege, that is not the end of the story. executive privilege can be overcome in a criminal setting. that's what we know from the nixon watergate tapes case. there is an argument that in the impeachment setting where there is even more need for that specific evidence, that executive privilege could be similarly overcome. but you can imagine a world in which the president invokes executive privilege and this ends up fwak in court, which would be another crazy twist to this whole thing. >> xufting. ruth marcus, thank you very much. crystal, thank you, as well. i can't believe mike pence has a website now running for president. that's amazing. thank you, bill. still ahead, adam schiff prosecutes the case against president trump as polls show mike bloomberg breezing past the
president in hypothetical matchupes. plus, a new primary poll from new hampshire has bernie sanders nearly doubling his support over the past month. we'll have those new numbers ahead on "morning joe." we're back in 90 seconds. d on ". we're back in 90 seconds do you have concerns about mild memory loss related to aging?
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i thought our team did a very good job. but honestly, we have all the material. they don't have the material. >> you have made the democrats' point. you have shown why 57, 58% of americans believe you have obstructed the investigation into your own impeachment which you just admitted. we got it all and we're keeping it from the investigators. that would be called obstruction of justice. in the kourts and here that's obstruction of congress and he just may not be smart enough to realize that's something he keeps inside his head. >> that was -- yeah, you know, on sunday, adam schiff suggested that the administration was withholding documents. on wednesday, president trump said, yep, pretty good. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is thursday, january 23rd.
along with joe, willie and me, we have jonathan lamere, tom nichols, garrett haik and barbara mcquade. so in a moment, we're going to show you the key moments from adam schiff's opening arguments laying out the case for president trump's removal from office. by most accounts, it was a virtuoso performance that drew praise from all siendz yesterday, even senator lindsey graham. is w it was a stunning recitation of the facts that weave together constitutional framing of american history and donald trump's laundry list of abuses of power and obstruction of congress. we'll have that in a bit. >> we are going to have that in a bit, but willie, first, why don't we hear from the american people and see what the american people are thinking about this
impeachment proceedings. if you listen to republicans, they will tell you that this has been too -- nancy pelosi has mishandled this, adam schiff has mishandled it. the american people are angry. this is going to help donald trump and help the republicans so much. poll after poll after poll just shows that to be a lie. of course, we showed you the cnn poll a few days ago that said a majority of americans want him impeached and removed from office. of course, 56%, 57% of americans say they believe he abused the powers of his office. about the same amount said that they believe that he obstructed the investigation, purposefully obstructed the investigation. almost 7 in 10 americans say we want to see relevant witnesses. so all of those numbers proving that this impeachment and the truth that is coming with it, these proceedings, are hurting the president. now we have direct evidence of how it's hurting him in head to head matchups where democrats
appear to be breezing past donald trump now. joe biden had 53 to 44%. michael bloomberg -- >> wow. >> little mike? no. when it comes to numbers against you, donald, he's big, bad mike. >> he's got a lot of money. >> 52% to 43%. bernie sanders, 52% to 45%. a guy that trump calls a socialist. the person he calls poke h oi u cahanus, 50% to 45%. i hear trumpists on tv. i read trumpists in the papers and in dshg on twitter. the here all suggesting this
impeachment proceeding could not be going after donald trump and the american people. >> if you look at almost any poll in these head to head matchups or when people talk about the democratic race to become the nominee, the keep element of their vote is who can beat donald trump. yes, they would like to have somebody who aligns perfectly with their world view, but democrats want to win. so when you look at that graphic, as we put it up again, you can see that all the way down the line there are five, six candidates who can make the electability argument. if the question was, well, some people say without evidence, really, elizabeth warren couldn't beat him head to head. she can make that case, john lamere, that she can win. pete buttigieg can make that case, amy klobuchar and michael bloomberg can make that case. democrats want to win more than anything. and now you've got a list of people led by joe biden and michael bloomberg who can make the case. this is not a national
referendum who can make the case that i would beat this president. >> right. >> applying the usual caveats about national polls, these are impressive numbers for democrats and it shows where the country is on impeachment. but this is something, a process, that we want to play out. we've seen the numbers be consistent about this. that president trump based his loyal 40 odd percent of voters. they feel like the republicans are doing the right thing trying to bring it to a quick end. but the majority of the american people want to see it play out. and as much as the trump campaign makes an argument that the this is going to be good for them and excite their base, only time will tell if that is true, the existing polling suggests that's not the case. just some battleground states with these candidates and margins were closer, certainly. and that is where this election is going to be decided. but this goes to show you that as much as we know, what we think we know will be the eventual outcome of this trial in terms of whether the president will be removed from office, the political ramifications are yet to be determined.
and there is a chance, even if in a week or so he's acquitted, this will have long lasting damage. >> and at the very least, joe, they polls show that 75%, 65% of americans which with those numbers brings in some republicans and a lot of independents want to see a fair trial. so when the president of the united states goes out, as you just showed in that clip and says, we've got a bunch of documents that we haven't given them saying explicitly we're withholding evidence, that 65% to 70% says, wait a minute, that's not a fair trial. and americans want a fair trial. they want impartial jurors. and they want relevant witnesses. and mitch mcconnell and lindsey graham and the republican party have bragged openly that they were not going to provide a fair trial to the american people. they weren't goc to going to be honest brokers, they weren't going to be impartial jurors even though they raised their hand and swore a solemn oath that they would be. quickly before we get on to
impeachment, an interesting monmouth poll came out yesterday in the democratic field nationwide. what it shows is, of course, joe biden up doing pretty well. he and sanders seem to be at the top of all of these polls right now. elizabeth warren at 14%, but michael bloomberg up four more percentage points from december. he's 9%, 3 more percentage points from pete buttigieg nationally and 4 percentage points ahead of amy klobuchar nationally. he is about to hit double digits, and i'm sorry, but this seems pretty familiar, willie, from what people were saying about another new york millionaire. or billionaire. whatever donald trump is. back in the early stages of his campaign. mike bloomberg, you know, not going to get past 3%, not going to get past 4%. it looks like he's about to get into double digits. >> yeah. he doesn't have the celebrity that donald trump had in 2016 and you could argue that the field is much more formidable
than the one that donald trump faced in 2016. but it's amazing what a quarter of a billion dollars already in advertising in states across the country, big states like california and new york, super tuesday states, obviously he's not playing at the beginning, but he's laying the groundwork to be sitting pretty well, especially if the vote is fractured. if one person wins iowa, another wins new hampshire, another wins south carolina, he could be sitting there to make the case and say the democratic party hasn't made up its mind. here i am. i am a guy who is competent, who ran the biggest city in the country and who can beat donald trump. >> may not ve have the celebrity, but he has way more money which some would argue bugs trump and causes trump to focus on him. and that's only helpful to mike bloomberg who has the most powerful ads out there. >> right. >> and mika, unlike donald trump, he actually knows how to run things. >> that wouldn't be the end of the world. formal arguments in the senate impeachment trial are officially under way. and democratic prosecutors are
laying out the case for president trump's removal from office. in a series of speeches on the senate floor yesterday, lead impeachment prosecutor adam schif along with six other house impeachment prosecutors argued that president trump pressured ukraine in order to help him win re-election. schiff warned senators that if trump isn't held accountable, the damage to u.s. elections and national security could be long lasting. here is some of his floor presentation. >> president trump withheld hundreds of millions of dollars in military aid to a strategic partner at war with russia to secure foreign help with his re-election. in other words, to cheat. his scheme was undertaken for a simple but corrupt reason, to help him win re-election in 2020. but the effect of his scheme was to undermine our free and fair elections and to put our national security at risk.
the president was the key player in this scheme. everyone was in the loop. he directed the actions of his team. he personally asked a foreign government to investigate his opponent. these facts are not in dispute. ultimately, the question for you is whether the president's undisputed actions require the removal of the 45th president of the united states from office. i suggest to you today the only conclusion consistent with the facts and law, not just the law, but the constitution, is clear. as described by a constitutional law expert's testimony before the house, if this conduct is not impeachable, then nothing is. president trump's abuse of powers of his office undermine the integrity of free and fair elections and compromised america's national security. if we don't stand up to this peril today, we will write the
history of our decline with our own hand. if president trump is not held to account, we send the message to future presidents, future congresses and generations of americans that the personal interest of the president can fairley take precedent over those of the nation. we have, for generations with been the shining city upon a hill that president reagan described. america's not just a country, but also an idea. but what worth is that idea if, when tried, we do not affirm the values that underpin it. what will those democracy around the world conclude, that democracy is not only difficult, but maybe that it's too difficult? maybe that it's possible? and who will come to fill the void that we leave when the light from that shining city upon a hill is extinguished?
if the president was fighting corruption, if he wanted europeans to pay more, why would he hide it from us? why would he hide it from ukrainians, why would he hide it from the rest of the world? why wouldn't he be proud to tell the congress of the united states, i'm holding up this aid and i'm holding it up because i'm worried about corruption. why wouldn't he? because, of course, it wasn't true. and folks, they're at war. they're at war and they're being told, you're not getling $400 million in aid you need unless you do what the president wants or what the president wants with these two investigations. if you don't believe that's pressure, that's $400 million worth of pressure. you've heard my counsel say before, but they say they don't feel pressure. like they're going to admit they were being shaken down by the president of the united states. you think they feel pressure now, you should see what kind of pressure they feel if they
admitted that. the president's counsel would love you to believe this is just about ukraine. you don't need to care about ukraine. who cares about ukraine? how many people can find ukraine on the map? why should we care about ukraine? they're an ally of ours. in 1994 when we asked them to give up their nuclear weapons that they had inherited from the soviet union and they didn't want to give them up and we were worried about proliferation, we said, hey, if you give them up, we will help assure your territorial integrity. we made that commitment. i hope we care about that. i hope we care about that because they did give them up. and you know what? just what they feared took place. the russians moved across their
border and they remain occupying part of ukraine. that's the word of america we gave. and we're breaking that word. why? for help with a political campaign? >> yeah. >> it's something we've talked about on this show. actually, over the past couple of years, after the invasion of ukraine, after vladimir putin invaded ukraine, i remember jeffrey sacks and others coming on saying -- and richard haas coming on saying we made a commitment to ukraine, if they gave up their nuclear weapons, we would protect their boarders. of course, we didn't do that. now this president, tom nichols, decides that he's, again, going to withhold military funding unless, of course, they help interfere with american elections, particularly his election. i thought schiff's performance was a virtuoso performance
yesterday. i'm so used to seeing mediocrity on the floors of the house and the senate that a performance like that does cut through, doesn't it? >> and he made the case about national security, which i think really does resinate. one thing about the house laying out its case is the narrative is so clear, iepts not hard to follow. this is arcane. there's not -- yes, there's the obligatory reference to 65 and things a lot of us haven't studied since college, you know. >> hamilton got a lot of run yesterday. >> he did. and he's being recognized more and more. but to lay out this very clear narrative of an abuse of power specifically for personal gain that also injures the national security and puts a friend at risk at the hands of the russians, i think, really drove home the case. and i'm wondering now if mcconnell's -- the senate -- the
republican senators before him said, you know we're going to kind of sweep this thing away and we don't really want to do that. i'm wondering if that is starting to back fire because it looks bad now. i think the case laid out by the democrats was so strong that the republicans who just want to sweep it away now i think are having trouble making that case. still ahead on "morning joe," congressman schiff addresses the president's defense strategy, which doesn't seem to take much issue with the facts of the case but rather with the impeachment articles themselves. we'll talk about that just ahead. but first, here is bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> good thursday morning to you, mika. a messy weather system in the middle of the country. we have snow, freezing rain, sleet. for right now, 11 million people under winter weather advisories. mostly i-70. freezing rain overnight, careful there. a selection of northern portion of arkansas, towards topeka,
manhattan, kansas, towards omaha. how much snow? not a blockbuster storm, bit will have a long duration.it's snowing now in chicago and illustrate will continue into saturday morning. so illinois and wisconsin, we could get about 4 or 5 inches over a couple of days, but it's not high impact. you'll notice if we move over here to the northeast, you're fought getting much snow this weekend. it looks like another rain event for areas from d.c. to boston to new york. so here is the forecast for today. any travel issues out there on the roads and airports, chicago to st. louis, back towards new york and st. louis and boston and d.c., no problems. chance of showers and 75 today. and as far as your weekend outlook goes on friday, there's that lingering snow in the midwest. rain moves into the carolinas into virginia. and then an ugly saturday morning into the afternoon. philadelphia into new york city, it's going on be heavy rain and that will slide up into southern new england. so everyone that's been, you know, hoping for a snowstorm, not this one.
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quid pro quo. now there are notes that show this. there's a written record of this. there's a written record of what president trump told ambassador sondland right after that call. would you like to see that written record? it's called mr. morrison's notes. it's right there for the asking. there is no even plausible arguable invented, even, excuse for withholding these notes. wouldn't you like to see them? >> in any courtroom in america holding a fair trial, you would want to see contemporaneous notes. this senate should be no different. demand those notes. demand to see the truth. we're not afraid of those notes. we haven't seen them. we haven't seen them. maybe those notes say something completely different. maybe those notes say no quid
pro quo. maybe those notes say it's a perfect call. i'd like to see them. i'm willing to trust ambassador taylor's testimony and his recollection. i'd like to see them. i'd like to show them to you. they're yours for the asking. >> jonathan, of course, republicans don't want to see it. why? because they know what those notes say. they know that the notes, like all the other information that has come outs, implicates the president examine prove that this, quote, drug deal was dirty and it started at the very top with donald j. trump who has, actually, quite effectively obstructed justice and obstructed this investigation over the past several years. we think back to the mueller report, of course, ten examples of obstruction of justice. i would say 7, 8 of those would land most people who aren't president of the united states in a trial and most likely in jail, but donald trump keeps
obstructing justice. he keeps obstructing investigations. and he keeps skating because republicans in the united states house and senate allow him to. >> right. the president tipped his hand yesterday in that clip we played about how saying we have the documents, we haven't turned them over, there's still obstruction. that's what happened right here. in their mind, the white house's legal strategy, they got away with it during the mueller probe, that he was not impeached, that mueller cited the examples of obstruction there in the report, he's not making a determination and the president's hand picked attorney general william barr said he did not find obstruction. the president yesterday was in davos and you could tell i was trying to do a victory lap on the american economy, but at the same time was preoccupied by what was going on back home. we played a bit here yesterday which he railed against the process and suggested that, you know, the usual attacks on democrats being corrupt and so
on, but he also said he would be willing to perhaps consider witnesses to be called. when that has very much not been the legal strategy. and that reminds a lot of white house observers of what he said during the mueller probe, too, where he said of course i'd be happy to sit down with the special counsel and, of course, he never did. mueller did not press him for more. there's a suggestion here that he does not do the same. there was an agreement to allow a john bolton to appear before the senate, executive privilege would immediately be invoked. the republicans in the president's defense, and we'll hear more about that in the coming days, it's about fighting the process, playing to an audience of one, knowing barring something unexpected, the republican-controlled senate is simply not going to remove him from office. coming up, if the american public can stay tuned for the impeachment proceedings, you would think the senators would, as well.
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foef on the evidence uncovered during the investigation, you will appreciate there is no serious dispute about the facts underlying the president's conduct. and this is why you will hear the president's lawyers make the astounding claim that you can't impeach a president for abusing the powers of his office because they can't seriously contest that that is exactly, exactly what he did. >> garrett haik, you were up on capitol hill covering this yesterday as you have been. we are limited at home from the senate camera view of what's going on in that room. so take us inside, if you can, based on your reporting. we heard some republican senators complaining that the process is taking too long, that the arguments are repetitive, that they're bored. some of them apparently reportedly getting up and going
into private rooms while adam schiff and others were giving their opening statements. >> schiff has probably a unique ability to demand the audience in that room. the other managers run into this problem that we all face and probably blocked out of our brains like you're a freshman in high school. it doesn't matter how good the presentation is, they just don't want to listen. there is an element of that with these others presenting. they're getting up, stretching their legs, they're walking around or whispering to each other instead of paying attention to what's going on in the room. i think that has to be intimidating to a certain degree to the managers, the fact that these folks aren't listening. the other interesting things that i have observed in the room, most of the senators, all but one are taking notes along the way. some of them are scribbling the entire day long, some perk up when they're interesting and
write something down. the only senator without a scrap of paper on his desk is the majority leader, mitch mcconnell, who sits right in the front row a few feet away from when the managers are speaking and does so silently. the guy that is looking at you deciding this is all i've got, that is like his mind made up before going into this. >> another poll i want to read the -- a little information on, mika, it's really compelling. from the new pugh poll that's out. 51% of americans support removal. as greg sergeant notes, that's the second poll this week showing a majority support. 53% of educated whites support removal. a majority of educated whites support his removal.
and get this, voters aged 18 to 29, voters under 30, 63% of voters 30 or under support the removal of donald trump. you talk a democratic bomb, republicans, it's not coming, it's here. >> so garrett brought up mitch mcconnell. joe's column in "the washington post" is entitled mitch mcconnell has failed the republican party. and in it, you write this, joe. observing the behavior of republican senators during president trump's impeachment has shown just how craven the party of lincoln has become. while senate leaders brings shame to themselves daily, most gop senators are desperate to avoid votes that might require the smallest bit of political courage. but what do they have to fear? far from facing an existential
crisis, these politicians are fretting over votes that would be supported by an overwhelming number of citizens. such heroism is neither expected nor required of republican senators sitting through trump's impeachment proceeds. all america demands is a fair trial and impartial jury. and had calling of relevant witnesses. mcconnell constant deliver on those aspirational values, his heart may be american, but his soul belongs to a bam besibasti liberal buffoon. coming up, barack obama's former campaign manager, jim messina, weighs in on donald
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i think it would be difficult for me, frankly, to consider impeaching a democratic president. i regard it as an awesome responsibility, one that i don't relish at all. we are considering impeaching a man, richard nixon, who has been in my district twice campaigning for me. that i regard as a friend that has only treated me kindly whenever i've had occasion to be with him. i am not one of those that would try to demean his or derrogate his record. in my opinion, richard nixon has done many wonderful things for this country. i wish the president could do
something to absolve himself. i wish he would come forward with the information that we've subpoenaed. >> that was tom railsback, an eight-term republican congressman and one of six republicans responsible for flipping and sending president nixon's articles of impeachment to the senate. railsback passed away on monday at the age of 87. railsback was part of a coalition to holding the republican president accountable for his actions by making it a bipartisan vote and voting against party lines. on the house floor, railsback said close to tears, in my opinion, richard nixon has done many wonderful things for this country, for his country. i wish the president could do something to absolve himself. railsback's legacy was referenced in the current house impeachment hearings when democrats urged for courage from
republicans. congresswoman zoe lofgren asked where is our bill cohen, where is our hamilton fish, where is our tom railsback. and other passing from the nixon era, an aide to the nixon white house and the first person on that staff to receive a prison sentence, eggle krge passed away on saturday at the age of 80. kr on gh was one of the leaders of the plumbers, a unit responsible for covering up confidential leaks which plagued the nixon administration. krogh pled guilty to conspiracy against the rights of citizens in 1973 for breaking into into the office of daniel elsburg, psychiatrist. eslberg, a military analyst, had been responsible for the biggest leak of all, passing the pentagon papers to the "new york times." this event eventually led up to the watergate burglary.
in his 2007 memoir, krogh wrote that we knowed then that these leaks constituted a national security crisis and needed to be plugged at all costs. but we were wrong and the price paid by the country was too high. krogh served 4 1/2 months of a six-year prison sentence. willie. >> two big passings, two big players from a different time of impeachment. let's turn now to northern politics and a new poll from wbur that shows senator bernie sanders now with a big lead over the democratic field in the state of new hampshire. senator sanders standing at 29% and that is up 14 points, nearly doubling his support since just december. he's now 12 points ahead of former mayor pete buttigieg who led in the last wbur poll in december. buttigieg now stands at 17%, down a points, but within the margin very stable there. joe biden, down 3 points. senator elizabeth warren
following closely at 13%. amy klobuchar rounding out the top five with 6% point, up three points from last month. joining us now, jim messina. he served as white house deputy chief of staff to president trump and ran president obama's 2012 re-election campaign. jim, good morning. let's start right there in new hampshire. we'll work backwards to iowa. what do you see in that poll? >> speaking of that poll, if it's true, elizabeth warren is in deep trouble. she cannot finish fourth in her neighboring state of new hampshire. if she doesn't do well in new hampshire, where is she going to do well? if that is true on election night, elizabeth warren is likely not going to be the democratic candidate. >> what do you think about bernie sanders moving up in the poll? >> it's consolidation, right? he's begin to go consolidate the left in his party. you're seeing it nationally, you're seeing it in iowa. it's mostly coming out of elizabeth warren.
he has a relationship with these voters. he's been campaigning with these voters for now six years. he knows new hampshire voters really well and people are beginning to come to him. >> mike, wbr, the station in boston in your area, you've been out in new hampshire just last week went with some of the candidates at the events. what's the vibe up there and does it reflect what you're seeing in the poll here? >> well, it does in a certain sense in new hampshire. always the last ten days before the new hampshire primary and now we're 2 1/2 weeks out from the new hampshire primary. there's extraordinary volumetity this year. it's affecting two candidates by eyesight alone. it's affecting pete buttigieg and elizabeth warren. pete buttigieg, a month ago, you would have said i think he has a chance at winning the new hampshire primary. elizabeth warren, i think you're absolutely right, if she does not score really well in new hampshire in terms of a bunched up top three, she's going to have a difficult time moving forward. >> on buttigieg and biden, they are, of course, the two of the
top five that aren't impacted by the senate trial. it seems like the vice president has sort of stabilized in iowa while pete buttigieg looked like he was on the verge of breaking through, but has now dipped in the polls. what is your sense right somehow? >> it was heaven for the obama people, right? i think mayor pete's cap has surged. he's no longer the hot candidate. it just seems like there's no impetus for him. joe biden is now leading 69% of the voters who think the most important issue is who can beat donald trump. he's consolidated those voters at the expense of mayor pete. and i think if you look at the two people who have actual bases right now in iowa, it would be bernie sand sxers joe biden. they're the two that will be consolidating in the next few days. but to a point mike set, we're going to see polls bouncing all over the place.
i hate polls because some of them are just, you know, stupid. there is a national poll out with a 7% margin of error. why are we even talking about these things? you're going to see polls all over the place. here are the number tos to look. what is the most important issue? who can beat donald trump. part of what bernie has been able to do is make a move on that number. he's up to now a quartz he of all democrats saying he's the best candidate to beat donald trump. that's why he's begin to go rise with the left votes in the primary. this is why biden is consolidating votes against mayor pete because people believe joe biden is the best candidate. so i think you're seeing some consolidation, but there will be some bumps and back and forth. more numbers for jim messina, a new voter survey finds surprising news for joe biden and bernie sanders along with new worries for pete buttigieg. the forbes/zogby under 30 survey shows sanders has the favorite
among 18 to 29-year-old likely democratic voters with 32%. the vermont senator holds a 2 to 1 lead nationwide over the only other candidate to pull in double digit support. joe biden with 16%. warren and michael bloomberg follow with 9%. 38 yooeld buttigi 38-year-old buttigieg garners 8%. meanwhile, sanders holds the widest lead over president trump in a hypothetical matchup among all 18 to 29-year-old voters nationwide. andrew yang tops the president, 52 to 34. biden, warren, bloomberg, buttigieg and clob char also win their hypothetical matchups, ranging from 9 to 16 points. turn to go favorbility, sanders leads the field there, as well. 64 to 28 percent.
he is followed once again by biden at 55 to 33 percent and then by warren at 49 to 33 percent. these are the first numbers from the new forbes/zogby polling project that focuses on millennials voting trends and impact of the youth vote. we'll be reporting the findings through election season. it is interesting, the numbers against who beats trump is exactly what you're focused on. that's what you feel voters most care about, numbers that can be depended on. what about youth voters? can they be depended on not just to show their opinions but show up at the polls? >> it is the great question, who will be the electorate. the question of who will turn out to vote. i think the numbers are
stunning. over 50% favor a candidate over 70 years old. it says that electability levels, issues matters, this has always been bernie's big calling card, that he can get the youth out. we just had the highest turnout in a midterm election in 100 years with young voters. the question is are these folks coming in a big way, if they do, it will change the electoral math. >> it is interesting and understandable among the numbers by millennials, the devotion to bernie sanders is clearly understandable, large part because of consistency over the years on issues. they value consistency. makes him unlike other in their minds politicians, and don't underestimate the fact that bernie, a lot of what he says, the messages, you can live your life for free, have free college tuition, free this, we'll forgive your student debts, it is a powerful message. >> but in the general election it is a message i think will get
him killed. i think he's the worst candidate in the general election for exactly that reason. >> you think bernie is the worst candidate? >> i don't think there's a question about it. i think it is clear to me swing voters i care about, trump, obama voters in midwestern states, bernie sanders is not the candidate we need to beat donald trump in november. >> this time of year, we were joking on commercial break, 11 days from iowa caucus, when you start getting butterflies, run the campaigns every four years, what are the campaigns doing? there are a million polls out there, public polling. what are you as campaign manager looking at if you run joe biden's campaign or pete buttigieg's campaign or bernie sanders' campaign. what's important? >> two things you can't replace, time and money. trying to make sure you have your candidates exactly where they should be for the most amount of time, trying to give the candidate a little down time. we were talking off camera about vice president biden, how much
he's working. all these candidates are starting to get tired. you're looking at that, trying to figure out who actually are the voters, people we know are going to come. in iowa, you need people that could move to you after the first round if their candidate doesn't get to that hurdle and they're out, who can you get. you start to have those conversations. you spend time on the doors and spending not a little time at midnight drinking heavily. >> and maybe aren't thrilled when your candidate is in the well of the senate listening to impeachment testimony. >> it is a nightmare. they can't do press avails. they're sitting there 12 hours with a senate camera that's locked not on them, while their opponents are racing around the state. makes surrogates more important, family, big supporters more important. this close is an absolute nightmare and mitch mcconnell knows that. >> to drill down on the three senators that can't be there, you mention surrogates.
so much of this hasn't been done already, establish a field operation that can be put in place when the candidate is not there, how would you skriadvice them? >> people are changing their minds, coming out the door saying this people is a three, undecided now one, a supporter. numbers are moving all over the place. the plan you built three weeks ago isn't the same plan now, why having existing field operation matters so much, having people that know voters in these neighborhoods, having good grass roots leaders really matters. that's why some of the campaigns like bernie in new hampshire is campaigning six years. he knows who the right people are to turn out. that's the question. who has the field operation to turn their vote out in the final days. >> jim messina, thank you so much. it is fascinating with the runup
to iowa. last hour, we mentioned upcoming live broadcast from java joe's for the iowa caucuses. it is happening monday, february 3rd. you can be part of our live audience. register for tickets at mj in iowa event bright.com. later, we'll be live at the pen stock in manchester, new hampshire for coverage. and that's monday, february 10th. that will be fun. tuesday, february 11th, wednesday february 12th we'll be there as well. that's a three day possibility to join us. register at mjnewham shir at event bright.com. officials are monitoring at least 16 people who had close contact with a washington state man diagnosed with the first
u.s. case of the cohonavirus. they began to screen passengers at several major airports including atlanta, chicago, los angeles, san francisco, and new york. this comes as the deadly pneumonia like disease killed at least 17 people in china, infected nearly 600 others, causing chinese authorities this morning to close off the major port city of wuhan, which is populated with more than 11 million people. and "new york times" reports this morning chinese officials closed two other nearby cities as well, raising the collective total of those under the ban to 20 million. we're going to follow this closely, worth getting dr. dave in to cover this. that does it for us this morning.
msnbc's special coverage of the impeachment trial of president trump continues after this three minute break. trump continues after this three minute break we made usaa insurance for members like martin. an air force veteran made of doing what's right, not what's easy. so when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. that's how you do it right. usaa insurance is made just the way martin's family needs it - with hassle-free claims, he got paid before his neighbor even got started. because doing right by our members, that's what's right. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. usaa until i found out what itst it actually was.ed me. dust mite droppings! eeeeeww! dead skin cells! gross! so now, i grab my swiffer sweeper and heavy-duty dusters. duster extends to three feet to get all that gross stuff gotcha! and for that nasty dust on my floors, my sweeper's on it. the textured cloths grab and hold dirt and hair
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today, house democrats layout the case against the president. >> we can and will prove president trump guilty of this conduct and obstructing investigation into his conduct. >> the white house prepares to launch its defense. >> they're putting on their case. we will put on our case. >> all eyes are on the senate for the impeachment trial of donald trump. and good morning. i am chuck todd. welcome to msnbc special coverage of the impeachment trial of donald john trump.