tv Morning Joe MSNBC August 19, 2010 6:00am-9:00am EDT
i am right now on top of a stricker vehicle. as soon as all 440 of these soldiers are into kuwait, the combat mission in iraq, "operation iraqi freedom" will be over. >> big news on msnbc throughout the night. welcome to "morning joe." it is 6:00 on the east coast. >> thank god we're here! >> i slept in! can you tell? the bags under my eyes are a a little smaller. >> a little smaller. gout to sleep until 3:30. >> thank you very much. on the set is colonel jack jacobs. you've been up all night. andrew ross sorkin is with us and tina brown. good to see you! >> colonel, get us up to the news. people weren't tuned in last night, what happened? >> the last combat unit left
iraq in theory. in fact, we've got about 50,000 plus troops still in iraq and some of them are going to have to defend themselves, do patrolling. they are special forces and special operations forces in the country as well. and so there are liable to be more casualties. >> but we have moved, what, a hundred thousand troops out of there? that's, i think that's probably bigger than the initial wave on d-day. >> yeah. >> so we moved a lot of troops out of there the last several months but, this ntheory, the last unit designated as a combat unit to leave. >> how long has this been planned? i had heard before that this was a continuation of what the bush defense department had put in place. >> the drawdown when we were talking about drawing down troops from iraq, not to say too many nice things necessarily about anybody not in office, but
in fact, this plan was put into effect by the bush white house. the whole idea was to draw down from iraq in the first place and so this is a continuation of the same policy. but don't forget we still got 50,000 american troops still in iraq. >> we watched as it happened last night. nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel traveled with the last stryker vehicles. >> we coming up to the kuwaiti border now. the soldiers, you can pan behind me. they are unloading their weapons as we speak. so -- we are coming to a halt. craig, craig white, the cameraman, if you pan the camera around, you can see the lights of a border crossing point. so we are now this part of the qoi at least coming to a halt, approaching the border of kuwait. it looks like we are crossing into kuwait. i've seen the flashes of some
cameras so there are other journalists there. if you look to the left, there are some soldiers waving this convoy in. >> this might be it. it is local time, almost 10 to 4:00 in the morning. and i believe we have just seen the last american combat soldier cross into kuwait. yes, the gates are closing right now. this stryker passing right now represents the last american combat troops in iraq. the gate is about to close. keith, this has been a historical moment that we have just seen. >> great coverage. we will be talking to richard live in the next hour. we will talk to him more about the back story and what led up to our access to this story which is an interesting angle as well. msnbc rachel maddow sat down with major general steven lands as the spokesman for the u.s. forces in iraq to talk about whether or not the war is england. >> should we still, when we talk
about this, either in the news or just among ourselves, should we still call this a war? >> i think we call it -- i wouldn't call it a war per se. i would call it the fact we are enabling iraq to move forward. there is a chance for iraq in terms of where they are right now to move forward, not only in this region but also to help the people. i think what we have done here is given them an opportunity to do that. i would not say we're in a war. i would still say there are challenges here and violence will continue. the important thing i think as everybody knows is get the government seeded as quickly as possible. >> meanwhile, the state department is emphasizing while this is a major milestone, u.s. involvement in iraq as jack has been adding is far from over. >> certainly, the violence in iraq is lower than it was at the peak of the war, but it's still a dangerous place. there are still people trying to disrupt the iraqi government and represent, because al qaeda is still in iraq, a work in iraq is not done. it is still going to take a number of years. the civilian presence will be
less obtrusive. we will be establishing consulates in critical areas. there are still a lot of work within iraq to do. we will be committed in iraq to build a partnership with iraq with iraq for a long, long time. >> i think it makes sense to clarify the position. at the same time, it is in milestone to watch the troops leave. >> no doubt about it. ti tina, what concerns do you have? >> i feel for the state department official who will be left in these enormous new embassy headquarters that they are making there for these state official. they are going to have now to oversee this transition. >> still a dangerous place. >> i feel like custer's last stand for these guys. it will be pretty frightening and all of these contractors who are taking over for the military. as we know from a lot of what happened with blackwater, that sometimes that can become very much kind of a cowboy situation. i think that it's a very scary thing that these people are left and i also wonder.
this government doesn't seem to be able to be formed. >> right. >> is it going to collapse and now have another strong man coming in in a civil war? i think it's scary. you need another year or two, frankly, of maybe five years of the military being there but there is no money and there is no time and no political will for that. >> the one thing i'm trying to understand there is 50,000 troops will still be there that are, quote, noncombat. what does that mean? do they have the same skills? can they go to combat if they need to? >> they have gone to advanced training and shoot weapons and throw hand grenades. this is the last infantry unit armor or artillery unit out of iraq. it means that there's not going to be any active seeking out of the bad guys is what that means. people left behind will be able to protect shem themselves. >> we have the noncombats there. they are patrol and secure. they will try to stabilize the government, help them form.
>> a lot of -- >> you're not going to have operations where troops are going into fallujah to shake loose the bad guys and anbar province? >> there's a side light to awful this and comes from my own experience. we've got a lot of mobile training teams in iraq. >> special ops guys? >> no. guys like regular infancy guys like you were talking about who are advisers to iraqi units, iraqi military units and also iraqi patrol police units. their job is to train these people. and included in that is going to be these units that are going to get trained are going to be going out contacting the enemy from time to time i suspect there will be americans who will be involved. i was -- my second tour in vietnam was in 1972. i got there just after the last american combat unit had been withdrawn from vietnam when i was in combat every single day. this is not like vietnam. but we're going to have
casualties. >> i hope they have mel gibson or arnold schwarzenegger there to do something about this. >> thank you for bringing that up. >> don't mention it. >> a giant of a man. >> why do i know that? we will get other news and get back to this story throughout the morning on "morning joe." nearly a week now, krks have slammed president obama for supporting muslim's right to build a mosque two blocks from ground zero. yerksed the president was asked if he regretted those controversial comments. >> the answer is no regrets. >> thank you, sir. >> good for you. yesterday, former arkansas governor mike huckabee speculated on why the president decided to walk into the debate in the first place. >> i think he can't help himself. he feels he has to speak out on every issue. this is a president that got involved with that local issue
in boston. he speaks out on things before he knows, as he did with the shirley sherrod case. he just has no real restraint which is unusual because, bill, during the campaign, he was mr. no drama obama. this was a guy who was the most disciplined candidate that i've witnessed in a long, long time. >> the president is getting it from all sides. >> oh, my gosh. absolutely. >> it seems, tina, the bigger problem is that -- and mark halpern and i were e-mailing back and forth last night. said that he stirred it up. he said something, then backed off, but he needs to make a definitive statement. do you support -- >> this is his -- what he did with the -- you know, with that big afghanistan speech when he said, you know, we were going to do a surge but he has this odd opaque way he makes a statement and walks it back. i have to say the democrats have to grow over this whole thing. it has not been their finest hour. let's face it. harry reid is a worm in my view,
a complete worm. the fact he could -- there is no but to the statement as said on the beast today. is there no but i believe in religious freedoms. you either believe in it or not. you can't say religious libertys but i don't want the mosque there. it just doesn't work. >> joe, the question i have for you, though, is i agree with you about like on his speech on race. there were moments there where he could make an impact on an issue that is truly his. i think this is the issue that reflects who he is as a person and as a leader. having said that, had he made a grand passionate statement about it, which is an argument you were making yesterday, i think, on the air that he needed to, would we have been criticizing him for going too far on a local issue? >> it's not -- >> and why? >> it's not a grand statement if you just simply say well, i'm not supporting muslims. i do the same thing if san francisco city council wouldn't allow a baptist church in their
city limits or we saw what happened up in bedford, new york, where they tried to zone out of existence a buddhist temple. this isn't about being a buddhist or baptist or a muslim, this is about being america and we have a right to worship as we wish. we invented, we americans invented freedom of religion. we put it in our constitution. >> he had it right the first time. he had not just to do the second thing where he walked it back. clearly, they felt it was polling badly and i think it's a huge pity because he ran on, peter has done great stuff on the beast about all of this. the fact is that obama ran on being not that kind of guy. he ran on being -- >> just looking at the polls, he is looking at the polls. >> you think when he walked it back it was after the poll? >> when the president said, wait, wait, i wasn't saying i support it down there. i'm just saying that they have a right to do it. well, other than newt gingrich.
>> it's not like he stepped. everybody said he walked it back. he didn't. people kept asking and asking and asking and he had to clarify. it's like are you stupid? are you stupid? >> oh, god. you guys are not happy with anything seriously! i mean, my god! >> i was happy with the first statement. >> so let me ask you. i was happy with the first statement. >> first statement? and what else could he have done? >> hold on a second. >> not talk? >> he made the krit decision. >> what would you have him do, though? are you happy where it is right now where we don't know whether the president supports the mosque being built there or wanting it to be -- >> i know what the president thinks about this and i don't think it's fair to characterize. >> the rest of americans don't easement pim need to listen what he says and people on the right and left are making issues about this that are ridiculous. >> no, they are not ridiculous. >> oh! >> if you know what the president of the united states' position is on whether the mosque should be at ground zero
or at mid-town, please tell america right now. because the president specifically said on saturday in panama city that he wasn't telling anybody what he believed. you tell us. >> hold on a second. >> i'm going to sit back and have some starbucks coffee. >> no whip cream today? >> tell us. does he support it mid-town or downtown? >> he supports the right to do it and he understands where people might be a tad bit uncomfortable with it but the bottom line is this is america. okay? >> they have a right. >> yes. >> but a lot of people say they have a right to do it but they want it to be moved to mid-town. >> a lot of people say they have the right to do it, yeah. >> does the president want it to be built down there or does he believe the 9/11 survivors -- >> in front of the location of the proposed center and said it should be right here. you think that would be smart? >> you need to calm down. i'm just asking a question. >> mika, what do you think is the difference between what the
president said there and what harry reid said? >> harry reid said the same thing. >> everyone is saying -- he walked it back and equivocated and changes his mind, that is not fair. >> let's find something that everybody agrees on. i love chocolate! it's awesome. >> right now, nancy pelosi may have made one of the most clueless statements this side of newt gingrich when she said we must investigate the opponents of the ground zero mosque. please take a listen. >> oh, dear. >> listen to this. >> i think everybody respects the right of people in our country to express their religious beliefs on their property. the decision, though, as to how to go forward in new york is up to new york. there is no question that there's a concerted effort to make this a political issue by
some. and i join the -- those who have called for looking into how is this opposition to the mosque being funded. how is this being ginned up here we are talking about treasure island, something we have been working on for decades, something of great interest to our community as we go forward to an election about the future of our country and two of the first three questions are about a zoning issue in new york city? >> excuse me. >> newt gingrich, neat "meet the press" nancy pelosi. >> the democrats need an editor. the first bit of her statement is fine. >> are you offering yourself up? >> i'm saying stick with the first bit of the statement and stay away from the second bit! >> she wants -- -- she wants a state investigation of family members who lost loved ones in 9/11. >> i want an investigation of nancy pelosi and want it right now. >> seriously. let's just let that sink in,
mika. nancy pelosi wants family members, let's be serious for a second. >> i'm thinking. >> you were down there on 9/11. you saw a lot of people jump from the tower and die. and the horror of that day, nancy pelosi wants to investigate the family members of the people of the 3,000 people who died on that day. seriously? why are these people so clueless? >> i don't know honestly. i've got no answer. when you put it that way, obviously, it's an incredibly emotion issue for a lot of people. >> why do the democrats keep on suicidiing like this? last summer, we talked about the skip gates arrest which dominated the entire -- which blew away. now talking about this. it's like they cannot stop making problems for themselves. >> drugs. >> i think it is drugs. >> republicans aren't doing that well on on this one either. >> they are doing horribly but
the democrats had a clear issue they could defend. >> i can see somebody who stayed up all night. on both sides. crazy. >> it's unbelievable. >> the nazi analogies. i'm a small government guy. but can we please just pass a law that no prime time cable news host can draw any analogies between anything that happens in america and the third right? >> that would be nice. >> that would be nice. >> yeah. >> good lord. >> how about we start there? >> a good first step. >> okay. >> i'm coming back. you'll never get rid of me. >> we need you. we also need some chocolate. up next, politico reveals who is the most powerful republican in american politics and will i run for the white house? a terrifying scene when a raging bull jumps out of the ring and into the crowd! those stories in just a minute. >> you go! >> i will do no segue here. here is bill karins with a check
on the forecast. >> another raging bull. >> no, just leave it! good morning, everyone. welcome mika and joe. we are watching a nice forecast on your thursday. quite weather day. the rain from yesterday is long gone and you're experiencing a nice morning for your commute. the sun will shine brightly from boston to d.c. and humidity is low, too. a gorgeous summer day. we do have rain out there to track. especially through north carolina. one of the bigger cities down, there, the queen city, charlotte. your morning commute could be slower than you're used to. forecast around the country. heat wave ended in dallas yesterday. only hit 96 and today up above 100 at 101 and great weather from chicago to minneapolis and much of the west coast looks rather calm, too. the only trouble for flying today, if you're in and out of atlanta, big storms late this afternoon. you're watching "morning joe" this thursday brewed by starbucks. ♪ you can't always get what you want
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if there is actually one winner here, it's got to be blagojevich's legal team pep enthusiasm and vigor that the state had for blagojevich to walk away with only one conviction, his lawyers who are apparently from the firm rickles and palpetine, must have worked really hard for that verdict! >> we didn't put on any defense! none! zero! zip! nothing! and they still couldn't get a conviction. >> i was drunk every single day of the trial! i don't even have a law degree! i wasn't even awake half the time! i painted eyeballs on my eye
lids. this is how good i did to assure my client's acquittal! seattle times, the big story of the morning. leaving iraq. the last u.s. combat brigade departs ahead of president obama's august 31st deadline. >> anchorage daily news. thousands including his friend joe biden pay tribute to former senator ted stevens during a memorial service yesterday in anchorage. >> miami herald. a new poll of likely florida voters find that newcomers are trailing in the senate and governor races. meek holds a seven-point lead in the democratic race for u.s. senate. >> that is a bit after surprise. >> hello! >> on both sides. the money candidates losing. >> yeah. >> "wall street journal" developing web sites causing a stir because it offers college students a chance to place bets on their own academic
performance. an f. students with a low great point average are considered long shots so they have the opportunity to win more money for high grades. stanford, a spokesperson said they were appalled when they learned about the website. mika, love that. that is the sort of thing we could have in college invested and invested and we would have lost all of our money. >> no. i would have bet differently i think on myself. >> it looks like you can't bet. >> you can't bet down? >> darn it. >> to b students. >> see? "usa today" 40-year-old grandfather brett favre working out with the minnesota vikings. yesterday after a agreeing to return for one more season. wow. >> the executive editor for politico, his name is jim vandehei. >> how are you doing? >> good we're very excited because we want to see boss hog
run against barack obama and we think -- now, seriously a lot of people talking about haley barbo barbour. he is one of the few grown-ups in the republican party and he talks down the crackpots on the far right. he is colorful. i like this guy a lot. i just don't like the optics of him against barack obama in 2012 as a republican strategist. >> did you just say boss hog? >> the optics. >> what do you mean "the optics"? >> a southern bourbon drinking --? >> from mississippi. get it out on the table now because nobody will say it. from mississippi running against the first african-american president. it's going to be tough for any republican, even for minnesota, you like how i said that?
to run against an african-american. we saw last time hillary clinton and bill clinton were accused of being racist. jim, how will the mainstream media treat an old time southern governor from mississippi who criticizes him? >> you pinpointed his biggest liability but he is telling people when he looks at this field, he thinks it's so weak and thinks the fact he can raise more money, that the establishment would be behind him, the fact that he is good at debating and he is good on tv that he thinks he could overcome all of that and win the nomination. i don't know that he will actually run because most of his friends are saying exactly what you're saying. but right now, there is nobody with more clout in the republican party because he has $40 million, because he runs the rga and he is wired in to all of the outside groups that matter in politics. >> jim, when i got there, you know a group of us came in 70 or so and we were anti-washington, anti-k street and all about reform. i didn't like haley all.
he was the republican establishment. he was a lobbyist. i tell you what, i've grown to love hearing the guy talk, because he is one of the few grown-ups in the republican party that will call out crackpots. even said on our show even after tim pawlenty wouldn't admit having olympia snowe in the republican party was a good thing, he said he misses jefferson in vermont. >> approximate you watch him on tv, despite all of his critics i think he is smoother at anybody else in the field and smoother about talking about issues in a way that does not offend a ton of voters. i think that is a difficult thing to pull off and he is go at it because he has been in politics essentially forever and run the rnc and a governor of mississippi and a big fund-raiser and every republican i talk to said what you just said. even if i used to not like him it's impossible not to like him at a personal level and i think
his stature is growing at the expense of michael steele who everyone thinks is gaffe prone and cash strapped and ineffective. >> you don't hear haley barbour comparing the people who go to this mosque to nazis. he's a grown-up. you haven't heard him in the birther controversy or you haven't heard him in the crackpot conspiracy theories. >> and chris christie. >> and chris kristie. >> jim, is haley going to lose some weight? >> he has always said you'll know if i'm running for president if i start to lose weight. he hasn't lost any yet. >> i was going to say. >> you say you don't like the optics. . that is enormous thing mississippi versus the african-american. look at the optics the other way and say he actually comes off as a kind of grizzly hands-on experience. he could be like the unbarack
and be reassuring. >> i can already write the columns that will be in "the new york times" op-ed pages and i know this going on shows where before people knew me, they assumed that i was from the south that i was a racist. again, ask hillary clinton or bill clinton what the national media did to them because they were running answer -- answer an african-american. >> we have a different period now. >> they accused bill clinton of being a racist. >> that race was full of the idealism of the first african-american president which it should have been. >> if they could do that to the guy people called the first black president, what will they do to a southern governor that looks like haley? they will maul him on certain networks. what is next? coming up next -- >> thank you, jim. a big lineup this morning.
>> huge. >> retored coast guard thad allen will be here with update on the situation in the gulf and lawrence o'donnell and maria bartiromo. brett favre is a grandpa and also coming out of retirement and we have to tease the bull story again. >> what is wrong? this is a great story. >> this is unbelievable. >> oh, my gosh! >> keep it on "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. ♪ good to see you once again hello friend ♪ ♪ hello friend good to see you once again ♪ there's oil out there we've got to capture. my job is to hunt it down. i'm fred lemond, and i'm in charge of bp's efforts to remove oil from these waters. you may have heard that oil is no longer flowing into the gulf, but our spotter planes and helicopters will keep searching. we've still got thousands of vessels ready to clean up any oil we find.
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anncr: want better customer service? switch to discover. ranked #1 in customer loyalty. it pays to discover. ♪ welcome back to "morning joe." live look at the u.s. koomtings this morning. nearly 7 1/2 years after the u.s.-led invasion in iraq, the last full american combat brigade made their way out of the country and into kuwait last night. 50,000 noncombat troops will remain in iraq for another year to train and advise iraqi security forces. >> with -- can we say what an remarkable job the troops have done since march of 2003 while
washington has been fighting each other and washington has gotten it wrong more times than not. yet, these troops kept their head down and i'm telling you, when the history of this war, tina, is written, we are going to hear about some amazing heroes. >> absolutely. it's been like a hundred years war. i think some of the civilians have done incredible stuff, too. and continue to and they are left now carrying the cannon essentially. >> 4,406 americans died in that war so far. we certainly hope that number doesn't rise much more. secretary of state hillary clinton will be announcing major steps today to energize public and private contributions to pakistan despite more than 20 million people being affected by recent flooding. u.s. officials say only 50,000 dollars has been texted in private donations. senator john kerry touring a hard-hit area also said today the u.s. will increase its aid to pakistan to 150 million dollars. one year after going through bankruptcy proceedings, general
motors filed the first round of paper work for its much anticipated initial public offering yesterday. no date was set for the sale but experts say the ipo could come as early as october. gm's goal is eventually to rid itself of the government's 61% ownership stake. >> i go the to jump in this. we are all taxpayers and all shareholders of this company and we should worry a little bit because if you really went through the documents last night, which the 700 pages of them, you will realize that ner not as confident in the ipo as they make it out to be. they are selling preferred shares which means they don't have the confidence that it's going to come off the way we want it to and they are also not selling all of their stake at one time. which means we are are not going to be invested in this thing not through october but the next couple of years, if not longer. we have to be rooting for this company. it's like we have to buy cars. it's a ridiculous situation.
>> i think we should be. poor place, detroit, we have to -- >> i want this to work so badly. i want this not to be a fake. >> mika, you saw something in "the washington post" while we were talking about iraq. you saw something sobering about the afghanistan war. >> it's sobering. we're looking again at their continuing correspond coverage. it's called faces of the fallen and men and women have given their lives for this war. and on the two-page spread, seven years, 4,406 lives later. in afghanistan, as well, the number continues to grow and it's the sacrifice this country makes, the sacrifice many would argue that many of americans don't really have a sense of. >> the question is as we look at these faces of these young lives that were ended in afghanistan, the question is why are they
dying? what is washington's strategy to win that war, if there is such a strategy? and win when do we stop seeing these faces in these newspapers? >> i mean -- >> is it another decade? because i have seen nothing to suggest, especially when you hear general petraeus talking about the fact that we will leave when we leave, when we feel like leaving. that's not an exit strategy. >> well, with afghanistan, we're nine years and counting. and my only hope is you look at the president working here to stick hard to a time line that he set for iraq. saying i think -- i think this is not the white house saying mission accomplished but they are making a statement by sticking tho these numbers and these days. i only hope afghanistan is the same. >> they have shown the discipline, norah, and i love how it's worked over two administrations. obama has followed gates' plan,
laid out in the bush administration, how great to have the same secretary of defense, that certainly helps. but does anybody in washington believe that the president is going to stick to the afghanistan time line when you've had hillary clinton and secretary gaits and this past week, general petraeus saying we're not looking at guidelines to get out. we're looking at conditions on the ground. >> remember, too, bush and the pentagon team said the same thing about iraq they would look at the conditions on the ground at this time and still were sticking to the deadline. my sense is certainly president obama faces a lot of pressure on the left in terms of funding. i believe there were more than 40 democrats that voted against that last funding bill. >> russ feingold is being a bit more aggressive. >> even the general on the ground is saying we have to remain conditions based et cetera. i think the commander in chief wants to stay true. what nbc news did a world exclusive in delivering these pictures of our troops coming home was remarkable.
beautiful coverage and i must say i was so struck because the bloom mobile was back for the first time. i kept thinking of david bloom and his family in that coverage and it was very moving and thinking about the 50,000 that are still there in iraq. it's still dangerous. i think it's important reminder as this -- the wars have fallen off the front pages to some degree that we still remember those lives lost and those who are still there. >> many brave generals died as well as brave troops. >> we're going to get to sports later in this hour. we will be right back with this morning's must read opinion pages. ♪ only wish you were here i'm seeing it so clear i've been afraid ♪ ♪ to show you how i really feel admit to some of those bad mistakes i've made ♪
i have been adamant in saying that social security should not be privatized and it will not be privatized as long as i'm president. social security not in jis crisis. there are some fairly modest changes that could be made without resorting to any new fanningled schemes that would continue social security for another 75 years where everybody would get the benefits that they deserve. >> sure. >> oh, yeah. >> i don't even understand that. >> what is he saying? >> i don't understand how he can say that outloud. >> oh, boy. >> explain. >> he has just suggested somehow social security is fine and he is able to mix -- fix it with minor tweaks. we will run out of money. period, end of discussion. >> i've been talking to mark halpern the last several months. he has stuck to his belief that barack obama is going to do the responsible thing and tackle
entitlements but after the election. i said you mean he is going to allow democrats to demagogue social security before the election and strike the deal? hold on. mark said, yes. mark, last week, when the president started saying these republicans want to destroy your social security, he said, my god. now he is playing the game. no. this is all about election nearing and, once again, we have no leadership on the republican or democratic side on social security. i will say this about george bush. you can hate george w. bush's social security reform plan but he was the first president that actually used an election to say, i'm going to do this to try to save social security. >> notwithstanding god he didn't do that. >> right. >> wow, we would be in great shape if we had done what they wanted to do! >> the point is at least somebody took the chance and so the question is what is barack obama's idea? what is the democrats' idea other than demagoguing this which is all they have ever done. >> when he talks tweaking, to
me -- >> there is no tweaking. >> to me that is a euphemism for two things. run, raising the age and playing the age game. you raise the age and that is tweaking on the edges. the republicans would tell you tweaking to overhaul, overhaul you have to do something completely different. >> trust me. nancy pelosi will not consider raising the retirement age tweaking nor will tens of millions of senior citizens. >> that is the issue, though. >> ts an important issue. you want to do a must read? >> yes! sounds exciting. >> "the washington post." it's by george wells. skip the lectures on israeli risk for peace.
>> you know, tina, i get so tired of american presidents who vacation on the cape lecturing israel about how they need to show more courage in the peace process when they are surrounded by hamas, who has stated their top political goal is the destruction of israel and when you have iran who is close to getting a newspaper nuclear weapon we will obliterate israel from the face of the earth. doesn't george will make a great point here our lectures of israel seem a bit -- well, nauseating? >> we have a tremendous piece today by bruce rydell on the
daily beast. he chaired obama's review in 2009. he writes for us regularly on al qaeda and on issues in the middle east. he has a great, great piece today about how al qaeda in yemen and now gearing up because they actually believe that israel is about to attack the nuclear capabilities in iran. they hope it happens because they feel iran will retaliate against israeli's ally and create mayhem all over the middle east. you see this as a great opportunity. everything we have been talking about today sort of points to the drama has done gone on. here we are coming out of iraq, yet, in the meantime, because we went into iraq instead of afghanistan and amped that up, al qaeda everywhere has proliferated and really is in yemen and now we have this terrible drama about a breakout in the middle east with regard to iran and israel. it's an incredible time there.
>> it is. >> quickly before we go to break, where are the stand-up candidates? he is looking ahead at the midterms, david broder. >> norah o'donnell, david broder not usually the prince of darkness. >> he was! >> he sounded a bit like novak there! >> yes, he's a columnist now for "the washington post" and, of course, the dean in many ways of the washington press corps. i think is reflecting what the american people feel. a sdust with regular politicians out there. >> a good piece. >> it is. >> andrew, did you want to say anything? >> no, no, he is good. >> i was told not to say
anything. >> he was given the big wrap in his ear. >> i got the big wrap in my ear. >> he is going to summer school. >> we will sit down and do a homework session. >> i thought i had gone away from that. >> look at in the mirror. it's still there. maria bartiromo will join us in a few minutes. looking ahead to monday. rob reiner will be here. let me do this. you're not going to believe this. a terrifying scene at a bull fight! they get more than they bargained for. >> do you two tap dance? >> yes, i do! healthy beauty is a journey.
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it's time for sports. after months of speculation, brett favre -- once again, returning to the vikesing for a second season. he practiced with the team yesterday and brett is looking good. he sat down with the press to explain why he decided to put the pads back on. >> the bottom line is winning. i'm not here to set any records. you know, people, you know, you can do this, you can do this. i said i've done it all. there is nothing left for me to prove. it's really about these guys. it really is.
and i know they were joking at the start of practice, look at all of the people here. it's about these guys. file like i owe it to this organization to give it one more try. >> the thing is it's not about the guys. if it was about the guys, he wouldn't do this every year. while they were sweating getting ready for the season. he wouldn't be on his fat ass in mississippi sitting there. >> that's not very nice. >> he doesn't -- he does not -- no -- >> he's a grandpa! >> he does not want to practice with the rest of the guys in august and so he comes in on a private jet at the end and go, i'm here to save the day. now back, i'm sorry. >> go back into character and tilt left. >> let's go back to character. no, i want to do the boston red sox story. >> tilting right. bad news for the boston red sox mike cameron is out for the
year with an abdominal tear and kevin youkilis is out for the year with a thumb injury. here manning the cameras at fenway. who do they turn to? bill hall off the bench hitting a solo shot off the angels. red sox beat anaheim 9-0 and still 5 1/2 back despite the fact their bull pen looks like a hospital ward. >> speaking of bulls. joe? >> did you see that video? >> i couldn't believe it! >> so must see video from spain. fans at a bull fight ran for their lives on wednesday when a bull jumped out of the ring and into the crowd. >> gracious! >> the animal climbed the stairs in the grandstand and knocking over fans and spanish media reported it was really exciteding. the good news nobody was hurt, pete, in the incident. >> that's good news. >> actually, it couldn't be farther than the true. spanish media reporting dozens of fans injured and one in
critical condition. >> the good news is nobody was hurt in the incident. >> good job with sports there. >> tina, you know that story in the daily beast today on yemen, absolutely fascinating. >> it is fascinating. it's very scary. because it also shows what has been happening while everybody's eyes have been on iraq and now we lost afghanistan for iraq and now meanwhile, yemen has become this hell hole and they are really gearing up to create more hell. the incredible is number two who issued a big statement how he wants to use the israel conflict is -- was a guy in guantanamo bay for five or six years. he was then sent back to saudi arabia. >> good thing they let him go. >> then fled to yemen and wreaking havoc there. >> tina brown, thank you. we will be live with richard engel when we return. it says you like soft rock. it says you like cool jams. i do like cool jams.
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what an eloquent way to put it. it is the end of an era. we hope, at least in iraq, a war that required something far different from our troops than past wars. i mean, obviously, cnn jack jacobs is with us. he can tell us, obviously, each war brings its own special brand. >> this certainly has. >> makes of hell. but anyway, we also have march rhea bartiromo with us and andrew ross sorkin of "the new york times." we asked the men and women in iraq to do something different than we've done in quite some time. >> yes, since vietnam actually. >> urban war fare, kicking down doors. >> but only as part of a larger program to pacify a population. the last time we tried to do that was in vietnam and that was 40 years ago. we forgot the few lessons that
we learned back then, an entire generation of officers and ncos have grown up since that time and didn't know those lessons and we had to relearn them. >> we relearned them and we're not limping out of iraq right now. we are leaving on our own terms. there is still chaos there and still 50,000 troops there. wouldn't you say this exit of combat troops is a little smoother than the one we executed in vietnam? >> quite a bit smoother. >> which you remember very well. >> the last time i was in vietnam, i got there in -- for my second tour in late '72 just after the last combat units had been extracted and we were -- we were in armed combat every day until the day i left. >> is that going to happen here? >> i don't think so but there are always plans to do something if things become more chaotic. you said it yourself there is no government yet. >> we will be talking live to richard engal in kuwait in a few
minutes. last night on msnbc, rachel maddow sat down with the u.s. special forces in iraq general to talk about whether or not the war is ending. >> should we still, when we talk about this, either in the news or just among ourselves, should we still call this a war? >> i think we call it -- i wouldn't call it a war per se. i would call it the fact that we're enabling iraq to move forward. there is a chance here for iraq in terms of where we are right now to move forward not only in this region but also to help the people and i think what we have done here is given them an opportunity to do that. i would not say we're in a war. i would still say there are challenges here and violence will continue. the important thing as everybody knows is get the government seated as quickly as possible. the state department is emphasizing that while this is a major milestone, u.s. involvement in iraq is far from over.
>> certainly, the violence in iraq is lower than it was at the peak of the war, but it's still a dangerous place. there are still people trying to disrupt the iraqi government and represent, because al qaeda is still in iraq, a work in iraq is not done. it is still going to take a number of years. the civilian presence will be less obtrusive. we will be establishing consulates in critical areas. there are still a lot of work within iraq to do. we will be committed in iraq to build a partnership with iraq with iraq for a long, long time. >> maria, lets bring up a name that nobody will want brought up and that is george w. bush. you look at what is happening right now. this is a guy that, obviously, was commander in chief when we went into a war based on false assumptions shared by intelligence communities across the world. but iraq was ending very badly. barack obama, joe biden, rahm emanuel, the entire obama white house in '06 was saying let's get out. they were against the surge. thought it was a terrible thing. 80% of americans were against
the surge. bush stuck to it and got the surge. between that and the awakening in western iraq, we saw an incredible turnaround in this country and this morning let's do something nobody will want to do. let's say at least george w. bush got that right. >> look. it's amazing we saw election in iraq. i think it's been an extraordinary situation. when i saw that we were actually, you know, 50 miles away from the border, it's really an extraordinary story. >> it is. andrew, we can't continue fighting these wars the past decade has exhausted us financially. hopefully, this is a good step for us not only militarily to get out of there and at least get most of our guys out of there and women out of there. >> this helps the cause. >> but narrow our focus internationally? >> you're talking on the economic issue? >> i'm talking about fighting wars.
we have been fighting wars the past decade, the chinese have been going around making economic -- >> building stuff. >> creating? >> we need to get out of afghanistan and get out of a lot of other plays. >> yes, we do. >> so we can take the money and put it into the things we talk about on this broadcast, whether education or health care or anything else. that is fundamentally the issue. so much of our money has gone to these wars and put us from an economic position in a bad place. >> cnn jacobs, if you look what happened with the u.s. military, especially the army the past 15 years, we basically get rid of 200,000 troops after the so-called peace dividend. seven years later, we start a decade of wars stretched so thin. >> with the same number of people we had before, by the way. >> actually with 200,000 fewer less than we had in '91 when we fought the first gulf war. >> dumb. >> dumb. and the strains, the problems
with readiness in the military and the strings of the families back at home who have seen their fathers and mothers and sons and daughters gone. one tour after another tour. does not help? >> no, no. it's much worse. look. we're a country with 310 million people with obligations worldwide. let me put it in the proper perspective. per capita, there are three times as many people in the iraqarmy as there are in the. armed forces completely. very bad news, indeed. we can't continue to operate like that and rely almost totally on guard and reserve people who have made three, four, five trips back and forth. no, no. it doesn't make sense at all. we've got to either change the way we operate in the world which we're not going to do, or we have to have a better way of using military people. >> it's very simple. like you said, if we're going to continue to try to be the world's police mem, we either have to have a draft or raise
taxes. >> oh, "d" draft! >> raise taxes a lot to get 3 hundred to 400,000 troops in the military and we're for the going to do that so we have to show strength. >> richard engel traveled with the last u.s. combat brigade last night. he joins us this morning live from camp virginia in kuwait. richard, first of all, update our coverage. i know you've been working on this around the clock. i'd love to hear a little bit about how you got access to this incredible footage and story as it happened and how you worked behind the scenes to make that happen. >> sure. the updates right now, you can see those stryker vehicles behind me. they have crossed into kuwait and now just waiting here out processing and should be getting flights back to the united states fairly soon. this was from the 42 stryker brigade and they are based in ft. lewis in washington state
and they will be joining us with their families soon as we get processed and on to planes. for this gat brigade the mission is over and it's a bureaucratic process as they leave this country and end their deployment. how did we get access to this? we asked. we just asked if we could cover what everyone knew would be a historic moment, the withdrawal of the last gat brigade from ir iraq. this is the end of the war as commissioners have told us of the war as we have known it. there was a combat mission that began in 2003 in which there was heavy fighting and constant deployments and redeployments of america's combat. going into harm's way. this represents a very significant shift. the soldiers going forward will be trainers and advisers. now, just a note. that actual transition ceremony
from end of combat to the training will be held in sort of a symbolic ceremony in baghdad on september 1st. with the combat brigade out, the mission has already changed. >> cnn jack jacobs is with us. take it away, jack. >> richard, good to see you in kuwait actually. you never been there, have you? >> i've never stepped foot in kuwait before. even as we were crossing the border, this is it, right? i knew we weren't going anywhere else. i didn't think we would be taking a left into iran. kuwait was the objective. >> seven years in iraq and never in kuwait. a quick question for you. what is going to happen to these troops? is it true that some of them are going to wind up in afghanistan? what is the deal? >> these troops are not scheduled to go to afghanistan. they go back to ft. lewis and they will have dwell time. people don't always stay with
their brigade. they change around. if they leave, yes, it's very possible they could go to other units that ring go to afghanistan sooner. we spoke, for example, to one soldier. he said he'll be in afghanistan in about six months. but as a unit, no. these soldiers are going home and then wait for further orders. it is possible that they could go to afghanistan in the future but that is not in their immediate schedule. >> richard engel live in kuwait, congratulations to you and your team for incredible coverage and we will be looking for more throughout the day. thank you, richard. >> we have some polls that have just come in quinn a pea act quinnipiac. remarkable story. let's hope continue moving that direction. we have quinnipiac has brought out a couple of polls. fascinating poll out of florida and new jersey. we will start with florida. governor charlie crist, your main man is leading marco rub
rubio. 39% to 32%. meek is in third place with 16% and if he wins the democratic nomination which is next tuesday. if jeff green gets a democratic nod he gets 15%. charlie's number jumps up to 40%. that's pretty significant he is still holding his lead a couple of weeks after the bp leak stopped. >> for crist? >> yeah. >> i thought he did quite well given the bp leak. >> i did, too. but as that faded, some people expected his numbers to fade. >> yes. >> but i tell you what, he has held on. >> doing that well as an independent in 2010 with no party to cling hold to, it's not easy to do. >> i think perhaps -- you can talk more on this but a reaction to the climate we're seeing how people are feeling across the country. i've been very critical of his party switch but having said that, it is sort of an interesting switch in maybe
perhaps voter sentiment. >> if an independent wins in the united states senate in one of the most important swing states in america, that is news. new jersey, you want to know what is news? my main man, chris christie. he is doing everything wrong politically according to a lot of pundits. he is going after special interests. this guy is being tough against special interests. he is going after the unions. >> look at this question. i'm confused. >> his critics have called him a bully. look at this approval rating for a guy who is slashing the new jersey budget in way that no politician would ever, ever be advised to do. ever. i've been around him for 15 years. and they are always told why you can't cut budgets, they are always told why you can only spend what -- you can't spend
the amount of money you have. this guy has shown courage and look at the approval rating in a democratic state that hasn't gone republican, i think, since 1988. maria, 51% approval rating for the boss. the big man. >> that's pretty impressive. i guess it's emblemic of people, not necessarily are you republican, democrat, but people want leadership. they are desperate for leadership. >> i think they want leadership and awe then 'tis i. >> he has shown a lot of it. >> he has both. he has come on this set when he is in the middle of these big stories making cuts. he says, hey, i have to do it. >> other politicians look at what he is doing and take up what he is doing. >> no. i've seen two or three actually. i've seen three leaders when it came to cutting budgets and doing things that no other politicians has the guts to do. jeb bush did it in florida.
and he got rewarded for it. and mark sanford. >> how about michael bloomberg? >> we will get to michael bloomberg. mark sanford did it and the republican party hated him for it because they got their big spending special interests, too. now chris christie is doing it. bloomberg, is he doing it in new york? >> he hasn't been as aggressive in terms of cutting services but i think that he comes across as, look, i'm going to do what is right and get a handle on things as opposed to what looks better politically. >> right, right. the thing about christie, too, what they have been doing in new jersey for 20 years now just raising taxes. we don't have enough money for these programs to buy me more votes. let's raise taxes. >> you can get a lot of done if you don't care what people think about it. >> that's it. >> what i found with chris christie, young politicians across america, listen. important nugget on getting re-elected, actually.
chris christie doesn't care whether he gets re-elected or not. i remember when i first got in, he was getting killed. he said, i don't care. >> that is the key. >> i've been around politicians long enough the ones that don't give a damn, i don't care. i'm going to do this right. if they want to vote me out, i don't care. guess what? when you don't care whether you get reelected or not, you always get re-elected. you do. >> savannah guthrie is next with this morning's developing headlines out of the white house. also, an update on the gulf coast oil recovery. retired coast guard admiral thad allen will be here on the set and the new issue of "time" magazine, an exclusive first look here on "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪ listen up, people, volkswagen is at it again
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the answer is no regrets. >> thank you, sir. >> that was the president in ohio yesterday when asked if he has any regrets about weighing in on the ground zero mosque controversy. the mosque that they want to build near ground zero. joining us is nbc news white house correspondent. did i miss the memo? >> few sha day! norah o'donnell is back with us. >> they both went to the weeb site this morning. few sha is for ufuscia.com and they picked out their outfits. >> i saw norah on way too early. i guess i was inspired. >> trend setter. savannah, we will get to the mosque controversy in a moment. how is the white house characterizing the headline of the morning which is the iraq story and the combat troops moving out? >> well, look. i think there's a little bit of a mixed bag here. while, of course, they want to
highlight the fact that combat troops are leaving and we saw that last combat brigade leaving iraq last night live on television, a pretty powerful moment, they do want to add a note of caution which is that 56,000 troops are still in iraq. the combat mission does not technically end until august 31st. with that caveat, of course, they look at this as a milestone and this is one of those stories that the white house has sought to emphasize all summer, framing it as a campaign promise made by president obama that he has made good on. of course, as we know there was a security agreement negotiated by the bush administration to withdrawal all troops by the end of 2011 but in terms of when the combat mission would end specifically, that was something the president ordered early, i think march of 2009, to do this withdrawal over a pace of 18, 19 months and now we are seeing that come to fruition in iraq. >> norah o'donnell, a question
for savannah? >> since the mosque controversy story just keeps coming up i was listening to rudy giuliani on the "today" show they have every right to built it but the question is should they build it? why did the president answer that question yesterday that was shouted to him yesterday about whether he has any regrets and what is the feeling inside the white house about this? >> you know, i think that the president answering a question shouted to him along a rope line is worth noting because we all shout questions at him all the time. >> right. >> he generally ignores them. it's kind of rare for him to answer. the fact he answered and came back saying i have no regrets i think shows the president who is defiant, a president who is standing by his decision to speak out. to be perfectly frank about it, most of the senior aides are actually on vacation right now so talking to them only intermittently but this is a decision there's no question about it, it came from the top. the president wanted to speak out on friday night. they really resist the notion
that saturday morning's comments were a walk-back or a dialing back of what he said on friday night. there is a way to look at that and say that, all right friday night and saturday morning are consistent and saturday morning's comments are further clarification. but his opponents say, even, frankly, some of his friends say even if the president didn't come out on friday night saying i think this mosque should be built near ground zero, this community center and mosque there is there was a clear inference to be drawn. he came out strongly in favor of muslims right to express their religious freedom in this country. for that reason, a lot of folks came away with the impression that he supported the building of the mosque near ground zero. >> the debate in the first hour, mika said we know what he thinks. i think a lot of americans don't completely understand the issue. >> well, i think there's a couple of reasons. number up with, the white house
aides would say he was completely clear about it. the fact there is such a debate going on whether or not he thinks there should be this mosque and community center built near ground zero. the other issue is a political one. aides here say we didn't consider the politics because, obviously, the politics aren't great for them. in terms of whether or not this is an issue they want to continue to discuss, i think the answer is a resounding no. they think the president came out, said what he had to say and i wouldn't anticipate him talking additionally about it unless asked. although a lot of people would say no one was clamoring for the president to talk about this last friday when he decided to talk about it. the white house feels we had no choice. we were hosting a ramadan dinner at the white house, how could we invade this issue? others would say you could have said everything you said about religious freedom and not tethered it to the mosque
conversation specifically and would have been fine. >> savannah, not only the president's comments on friday where it appears that there was some in the white house did not think he should do it and then saturday him going to clarify or amend by walking over to the rope line and talking to cnn. then, again, yesterday responding to a shouted question. my sense is that the president really feels strong enough, wants to say more but is being reined in from saying more. the fact he is responding to shouted questions is so odd for a president do. it sounds like he wants to say more. he wants to come out and sort of defend it and explain it. >> i think so. i think he feels really strongly about this. it came from many. he was deeply involved in the writing of this speech, amending speeches. particularly this one, he was deeply involved in. i don't think he is restrained by his advisers because he is coming out and talking whether asked, when you have those moments as we all know covering the white house. norah, you know the moments where you are face-to-face with
the president are few and far between but when people are shouting questions, in this case, he is answering. >> savannah, we have put the period to the end of the sentence here and move on to the break. having said that, there have been -- this is one of those issues that invites extreme reactions and there have been extreme reactions on the right and left, no matter how much sense the president will make on this, we do have a constitution and he is sticking to it. we're getting extreme reactions. i'm sure there are people who wish maybe he would not talk about it because it's inviting some of this ridiculous conversation that we're seeing on the air waves about this. i mean, it hasn't been fair. at the same time, i can see how deep in his heart he knows how he feels about this and would love just like on the issues of race that we saw on the campaign trail, to speak his mind about it. i don't think it's been fair what we've seen out there at all. sfaej guthrie, thank you very much. see you on "the daily rundown" coming up after "morning joe." thad allen is next on
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throughout this whole thing, i feel, a lot of people feel down here that tatating to the united states government what to do. bp dictate to the faa who could fly over the site and they dictated to the coast guard and thad allen which boats can come and go and bp dictated to the epa, the epa sent a letter to bp saying we have serious concerns about your -- they say we're going to use it any way. so the bp has been running things. >> i will have to ask thad allen about that. right! okay! stong words from spike lee earlier this week. joining us is thad allen. he is here with overnight gops developments on the effort to kill the well. let's first, you heard spike lee. >> let's do the big news first
and then get to spike. >> i'd like to hear his response of that, a little lashing out there, thad. what is the news overnight, sir, with bp? >> we've been working a week and a half with bp on a way forward and i have been equivocating on the time line for a good reason because we needed to take concrete steps to kill this will. starting today we flushed the oil completely of all materials. brought it to the surface and stored it and filled it with satisfy water and do an ambient pressure test. we will see if there are any pressure leaks. is first step. then see if we can get a hold of the drill pipe and pull it out there so obstruction and put a blowout on before we do the bottom kill. >> how long has it been since oil has actually been leaking out of there? >> we stopped on the 15th of july. >> and this is just basically sealing the deal some. >> we're making sure that we put
a stake in the heart of this monster. >> it has been a monster. you know the gulf coast very well, as do i. it ended up in pensacola. we had a few tar balls for a couple of days but, for the most part, it's kind of like one of those monstrous hurricanes that never hit shore. of course, there is environmental damage in the gulf. i'm not downplaying it at all. but in pensacola in florida we kept waiting for oil to lap up on the beach and it never came. what happened? >> well, that was what was kind of maddening about this whole thing. we were holding the whole gulf hossage for a while because a hundred thousand patches of oil. so you had to be prepared from port st. joe to south central louisiana which we were at one point. we had over 47,000 people. the most massive response to an oil spill in this country's history. based on wind and current and it could come back again and you had to fight it. it would squirmish. >> is the gulf just so huge and
monstrous that it took the oil and pushed it this way and that way and disbursed it? what happened? i guess my question, where did the oil go? >> i think the answer is to some extent we're not sure but we know certain things. i like to start with the flow rate. that was a problem from the beginning. remember the 1,000, 5,000, 23,000? we now know based on a team we put together of separate emissions and government scientists that it's 5,000 barrels a day plus or minus 10% and gives you 4.9 million barrels. the next question is where did it go? we know to a virtual certainty we produced 827,000 barrels and brought it to the surface. we know what we skimmed and burned and know what evaporated by scientific calculations and data. >> right. >> when you add that together, it leaves 26%. >> right. >> that had to be dealt with. for every gallon that came up
26% of that wasn't accounted for and that is that ma model is intended to talk about. >> i remember seeing in "the new york times" a week or two ago, they had six pictures, the maps of where the oil disbursed. we were concerned in pensacola our beaches were going to be covered with oil for years. you just saw it, of course, in louisiana getting hammered but it disbursed and by the sixth new york time frame there were little dots out in the gulf. >> how do you deal with the psychology? the look at this poll in terms of how people are viewing this cries at this point. 55% think the beaches are unsafe to swim and 54% don't trust gulf seafood. does not reflect realty? >> there are issues have been open for fishing. seafood coming out of the gulf is probably tested than any
seafood exported from the united states either externally or internally. it goes through a three-step process and fda and noaa is involved in. any seafood coming out of gulf is safe, no doubt about it. >> what about the sgersants dispersants? we have been concerned about that. the white house had a directive eight when 800,000 gallons had been dumped into the gulf to use it sparingly, but we heard, i guess, a couple of weeks ago that every day you overrode that order because you thought it was important to put those dispersants in there. how many gallons have we put into the gulf of these chem kaz? >> over a million and a legitimate point. >> why, if barack obama is saying i'm very concerned about this, we need to hold back on these sgursants dispersants what did you find compelling to overrule that every day. >> a great discussion.
after the "exxon valdez" law was passed and regulations written that allowed dispersants was something of certain protocols being met. they were met and used early on. we found out we were using them in volumes never used before. on the 25th of may we struck an agreement with epa would would reduce the involvement of dispersants by 75%. when we capped the well on 15 july we reduced them 72% and reserved the right when we had oil we couldn't skim or burn and use dispersants if we had to it. it happened a number of times but overall we were on the path to meet the agreement we made with epa. i talked daily with lisa jackson on this every day. >> spike lee was quite critical of you and others for letting bp lead the way basically on all of this. what is your response to spike lee's comments? >> i've actually talked with spike about this. anybody who knows me knows i have never taken an order from
bp. >> that is the bottom line? >> that's the bottom line. >> look at him! >> do you think he takes an order from bp, joe? >> let's get a close-up of his face. no. >> listen, i know it has been a hell of a summer for you. we're not going to say good luck on getting your life back. >> i wouldn't say that. >> let's just say this. as a guy that has lived on the gulf coast and seen, unfortunately, a lot of damage done to our economy, it could have been a lot worse and good luck moving forward and congratulations. >> thank you for your service. >> on finally getting that thing capped. >> thank you. >> when we come back, an exclusive first look at the cover of the "time" magazine. rick, are you okay? >> i'm okay! i'll tell you all about it. >> i wasn't really asking you. we will will be right back! [ mom ] i can't start the first grade with her. ♪ i can't hold her hand on the bus.
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♪ okay. i actually care. that was mean. i. i do care about rick's shoulder. >> you can publicly apologize. >> i'm sorry. >> looks like it hurt. >> with us is "time" managing editor rick stengel to reveal the new cover of "time" magazine. if you can get a shot of this. he had surgery and he hurts so he actually has a device attached to his arm where he can carry two cold beers with him. >> exactly! >> and joe had both of them already this morning. >> i had both of them. so your load is a lit lighter. you had shoulder operation? >> yes. >> fascinating. >> i had a long time shoulder dislocation problem. i had a great seth miller operate on it. >> you will be better then. >> i will be better than i have in a long time. >> glad to have you here.
>> what is on the cover of "time" this week is the subject we are talking about but we broaded out to a larger topic. is america islam dophobic? how does building the mosque represent and play across the rest of the run some. >> are we? >> there are new mosques being built than ever across the country and there has been increasing examples of intolerance and hatred towards muslims around america. >> are we? >> you be the judge, okay? we did a poll, you know, 28% of americans think that muslims should not be allowed to serve on the supreme court and about a similar number believe muslims should not be allowed to be president. a majority of people who are against the building of the mosque downtown. at the same time, 55% of americans say they would like to have mosques built in their own
community. the poll is kind after beautiful reflection of american diversity. they like muslims in particular but think muslims lots of misperceptions about the religion. we have an extraordinary quote from franklin thomas -- i'm sorry. from franklin graham basically saying that islam is a religion of hatred and you shouldn't build mosques anywhere and they believe in the violent domination of other religions. this is frank graham, the son of billy graham. >> is that a recent quote? >> that was in today's "time" magazine from yesterday. >> franklin graham saying mosques shouldn't be allowed to be built in america? >> he didn't say that. he said it's a religion of hatred and seek the global and dominant vlgs of other individuals. the extent of religion. where you part it, i'm not exactly sure but there is tremendous ignorance of islam as
a religion. to talk about frank, you know, islam is one of three great abrahamic religions based on teaching of abraham. similarities outweigh their differences. i think the american misconception about islam is amazing. plus we have stats in the story which was written by a former baghdad correspondent. terrific story about the perception of obama's religion. only 47% of americans think he is christian and more than 40% of republicans think he is muslim. it's kind of amazing. >> there it is in "the post." >> it's the pew study think that obama is muslim. >> i've got to say, too, also, because everybody likes jumping opinion on up and down on this. we have a healthy dose of
ignorance on both sides. but -- >> by the way, this morning, speaking about george bush 43 one of the things that we write about in our story. this is talking about how incredibly stallworth he was about saying that islam was not a religion of hate, it was a religion of peace. he visited mosques on many occasions. president obama has yet to go to a mosque as president. one of the hallmarks of bush's presidency in this regard was the fact that he really did draw the line on that. >> isn't that an irony. maureen dowd, we read the column yesterday. maureen dowd, norah, said how fascinating that george w. bush showed mere leadership in this area than a progressive president and cited chris christie and michael bloomberg and said basically get on board. >> george w. bush was the first president to use the word mosque in an inaugural address. >> wow. >> i mean, significance outreach to muslim americans and so why a number americans where ed
gillespie or david winston who is a poll sister saying republicans watch where you go on this discussion about a mosque, of painting all muslims as extremists. >> as a country, rick, let's talk about this. as a country, this sort of hatred was visited possible -- upon the irish, the germans, jews. you can go through it. don't we know how this story ends? don't we know that muslims are like -- america is this huge -- it is a melting pot. >> right. >> we absorb every group on the planet and they become americans. >> no, look. our country is based on religious tolerance and religious acceptance. that has happened with every group, progressively. the question is will muslims be able to assimilate based on what the rest of americans think about? we have actually have a time line of different groups exactly like what you're talking about. the question is whether the perception of islam is so different they won't be able to assimilate. >> and they will assimilate.
i'm an eternal optimist. >> i am, too. >> you look at our history, mika, we all have every reason to believe that they will assimilate and just as mormons and just as irish catholics did getting elected president. >> rick stengel, thank you. >> could you bring more beer next time? is america islamophobic. we will be right back. don't fix the leak. or anything in the house... without blueprint from chase. create a plan to pay off large purchases... and save money on interest. does your credit card have blueprint? design your plan at 866 blueprint. there's oil out there we've got to capture. my job is to hunt it down.
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i am right now on top of a striker vehicle. it is a fighting vehicle and we are with the last american combat troops in iraq. but as soon as all 440 of these soldiers are into kuwait, the combat mission in iraq, "operation iraqi freedom," will be over. >> that is amazing. >> coverage by nbc's richard engel overnight. we have been watching this story unfold. joining us for our summer book series, author of "barefoot in baghdad, a memoir of the work as an american aid worker in iraq." she saw unspeakable violence as we covered this before. >> what years were you there? >> 2003 to 2005. i've been going in and out of the country since then. >> oh my gosh. so talk about what you saw there. >> well, each year was a different year. early on in 2003, i saw a lot of optimism. iraqis talking about leaping
forward, a sovereign nation. there was a lot of excitement but as the years progressed more and more challenges became and iraqis wondered will this happen? particularly in 2006 and seven. still known in iraq as the dark ages. >> after the golden mosque was blown up, it just broke loose. sectarian violence. it was a country at war. we have had "the new york times" reporters who went back in '08 saying i didn't even recognize it. are you amazed at the transformations? because you do have 2003 to 2005 is one stage and 2006 to 2007, the dark age, and then it turned around. are you surprised? >> indeed. i mean, every single time you go back to iraq like it is a different country in a different time and you have to go in and explore from the beginning what iraqis are thinking because the same iraqis, their opinions were shifting and the way i would
describe it is in the beginning you felt an attitude of l liberati liberation. i expected resentment of the invasion. 2006, 2007, the dark ages, there was a strong mentality of occupation. that was the main issue and now you get a sense of sovereignty. that's the big issue. >> is there optimism now there with sovereignty? do people believe finally we are free, not only of saddam hussein but we are free of the american troops, we are free of the al qaeda terror? is there hope? >> there is cautious hope. there's a lot of desire for that hope. but at the same time, there is an a strong sense that will they be able to do it? psychologically, august 31st deadline. >> right. >> fear america is pulling out too early and a strong eagerness to see america leave and iraqis are battling with their motions. >> what about you when you heard the news over the past 24 hours? given all you have seen and done
there. >> well, i mean, we have been seeing the troops pull out for 18 months so in terms of every day iraqi and on the ground, the checkpoints, the raids are all being conducted by the iraqi security force and that we have seen in a very positive way. the big issue is psychologically when august 31st comes, what will the relationship with u.s. look like? shifting from military, when's the new relationship? people are very grateful to america and don't want to lose that relationship. >> nora? >> you're a muslim american with a unique perspective. what do you think about the mosque near ground zero? >> in terms of the controversy over the mosque which i just started to get engaged in, i work with the peaceful families project which, you know, not necessarily work but i know people from there and discussing with them, it's very hard to say that there's one particular attitude from the families that have -- survivors of families of 9/11. what's missing is large number
of muslims americans killed in 9/11 and it is not a mosque in the traditional session hearing the call for prayers. it is a community center. one of the things and something i explore in the book is my identity as an american muslim and never seen my different identities as mutually exclusive and this debate is almost forcing us to choose between sides. i'm a patriotic america and astounded by the fact it's questioned by the fact we want a community center. >> most americans don't want anyone to choose sides. we are excited to have you here. thank you so much for your work. >> thank you. the book is "barefoot in baghdad." >> what a great time to read this book. >> yeah, no. perfect timing. thank you. nora, thank you, as well. >> thank you. >> lawrence o'donnell and eric bates next. ♪
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we're just relieved that it was over. we're finally out of iraq. getting ready to go home. >> working for past seven years for it and everything. it's great the finally be able to start to end hand the country back over to the civilians. >> we know that we made history and this is the last time any combat troops will go in. >> i thought it was just going to be a quick in and out kind of thing. and now, part of the last combat
patrol years later. it is kind of crazy. >> voices from the front lines in iraq. big news over the past 24 hours. welcome to "morning joe." it is the top of the hour. 8:00 on the east coast. we're back on the east coast. >> that is nice. look who we found on the east coast. >> he is so -- >> didn't see him on the west coast. >> we did. >> he is an east coast. >> yes, he is. he always has the last word. >> he always does. you know what? he'll have a show called "the last word." with us, lawrence o'donnell. debuts right here on msnbc. lawrence, obviously, just thean that we saw in the health care debate. >> he is korea si. >> with us, executive editor of "rolling stone" eric bates. his cover this week, a bit provocative. >> don't know -- no. >> just a little doll. >> oh my god. >> if you want the kids to buy a
magazine -- >> stop it. >> give them -- >> joe. >> give them a cover to see. these are just naked people. with blood all over them. who will -- what kid is -- >> ugh. >> what 18-year-old male wants that? >> right. >> "true blood." i've never seen it. it's about vampire sex huh? >> vampires. they have a lot of sex and assimilation. >> there's assimilating. >> on the cover of your magazine. >> this is symbolism there regarding gay couples? >> little bit in the show. really the show's creator alan ball who did "six feet under" says it is about all outsider culture. >> we are outsiders. >> yeah. >> lawrence is not. you have a show, msnbc. so let's talk about last night. >> history was made right here on this -- i was in this chair last night. by the way, in these clothes. >> okay. >> i slept in the hallway.
>> not too much information. >> to be here. >> that was this morning. >> that's what i thought. >> what is your -- what were your feelings last night as you saw the troops going out? hopefully the end of pretty tough chapter in american culture. >> there was a lot of detail to report. there was a lot of historical detail to cover of the last seven and a half years which we had seven and a half hours to do on the air last night. i think it was four. but the truth of it is we have no idea what happened last night. when you think back to that last helicopter out of saigon, what was inconceivable was that we would ever have a relationship with whatever was left of vietnam. no one on that day could have said to you, there will come a time when not only do we have full diplomatic relations and trade relations with vietnam, but it will be a vacation
destination for "rolling stone" readers and surfers, and so, we saw something much more calm and deliberate last night. whether that leads to an even better long-term relationship outcome than we have with vietnam or something chaotic -- >> could be a regional war like cambodia -- >> what iraq is three years from now, five years from now we don't know. >> we asking too much of our troops over the last seven, eight, nine years. stretched thin across the globe. and now we actually have some troops that are getting out. >> and some troops headed to afghanistan. >> yeah. >> yeah. it's been a costly endeavor. i mean, how do you think iraq progresses from here? >> listen. i'm the first to tell you as i just did, i have no idea. short term, they don't have a functioning government. they had an election months ago. the parliament met for a grand
total of 18 minutes. >> which is extraordinary in and of itself. the fact we had elections and the parliament created. >> met for 18 minutes this year. we would be much better off, guarantee you. eric, let me ask you about this. obviously, we are getting out of iraq. slowly. combat troops, still 50,000 troops left. colonel jack jacobs said he got into vietnam for the second tour after combat operations ended there and he fought like hell every day. what do you think happens moving forward in iraq? >> i think we know we have a country that's still driven by sectarian violence and sat on it for a few years heavily with the surge. taking the lid off, i don't think it takes a rocket sign to t tis to know you have real troubles, we are relying on private security contractors, better known as mercenaries. agains for hire accepting money to fight under arms and we had
real problems with that in this war and exacerbated the war with blackwater and others so that's really disturbing in a kind of hot zone that you have in iraq that you're going to have these private mercenaries who are apt to make mistakes, stir things up, cross the line. not operate under the rules of engagement. >> they're operating under iraqi law. the state department running this crew this time. it's not blackwater. they say the rules are much stricter. but the dynamics are, as you say, very similar to what we have had before and, you know, 50,000 can sound like a big number. it's exactly what we have in germany at this distance from world war ii. >> right. >> it is, in fact, a very small footprint looking at the size of the country. >> great point. >> this city has 30,000 cops. just for this city. >> new york? >> yeah. and so, there's ways of looking that the number if you're an iraqi and you don't want anyone
there, 50,000 is 50,000 more than you want but in terms of actually trying to have a military influence over a country of 30 million people and that size, 50,000 is a pretty small group. >> isn't it amazing how not only saying the pundits but everybody has gotten iraq wrong through the years? we are trying to project forward of what's going to happen. >> i never have. >> you never have? >> i have never made a prediction on iraq. never. >> you knew. >> i knew that i didn't know. >> the other is -- >> i'm sorry. going back to '98 when democrats and bill clinton were saying, we have got to overthrow saddam hussein. and then in 2000, 2001, they were saying it was george bush's biggest threat, saddam hussein. republicans decided to go in there and george w. bush and the intel community said they had weapons of mass destruction. and we were going to be treated as liberators. that ended up not being true. and then, you know, bush with
the surge. most americans were against the surge. i thought by that point enough. >> debated that. >> i was against the surge. i thought there weren't enough troops. >> we didn't have enough troops. >> 100,000 troops. bush actually ended up along with the awakening stabilizing the country. every time we make a prediction in iraq we are wrong, aren't we, eric? you can never guess what's coming next. >> what's interesting is here all the many years later after an invasion, after a war, we are worried about the same things. what did we get for what we paid? 4,400 americans gave their lives in iraq. 30,000 americans wounded, many suffering for the rest of their lives and here we are having the pretty much same conversations we were having seven and a half years ago. >> chilling way to look at it. >> we know that -- >> we know the costs. >> we don't feel like we're sitting here saying, hey, it's
won. all's good. >> don't know. >> don't see rejoicing in the streets. >> again, we don't know how this is going to affect the middle east over the next decade. it may be great. it may be absolutely -- >> affected it so far which is -- >> so far. >> iran is a lot more powerful. >> lawrence, that's part of the equation, isn't it? >> absolutely. >> if iran -- >> possibly the biggest part of the equation. >> if iran gets a nuclear weapon, this is a horrific failure. if pro-democracy movements in iran rise up because they're inspired by iraq, that's a difference. iran is just as big a part of the story as iraq, isn't it? >> it's a more important part of the story. when you make a tactical decision to go to war, there's factors involved including who's next door? how might that affect next door? that was one of the great underestimates of the war plan. >> i think one of the great tragedies here, mika, we went into iraq thinking there were
weapons of mass destruction. we went into afghanistan, which, of course, made a lot of sense to me after 9/11. i think most americans agree with that. here we are ten years later and nailed down in iraq and in afghanistan. and we don't have the wherewithal. to at least threaten iran. or north korea. because we have no more troops. >> well, and look. you and jack jacobs brought up the "d" word last hour. i think it's a legitimate issue. >> draft, right. >> we are at because people have -- repeat tours of duty beyond two, three, four. >> horrific. >> and the impact on these families. 30,000 injured. what about the mental health? >> we have a choice, don't we, to make as a nation? if we're going to continue to play world's policemen and send troops here and 150,000 troops there, we either need to raise
taxes so we can hire 300,000 more troops or we actually need to show discipline in foreign policy and try to do less. show some restraint. right? >> right, absolutely. you know, with the draft, that's a very simple issue. if you really want to end american war making, just have a draft. it works. it works flawlessly. >> for the country to be engaged. >> you subject all, you know, princeton students to a draft -- >> right. >> -- wars end because the uprising happens of instantaneously and as they did in vietnam and they will just shut it down and refuse to go and shut it down. and it's one of many reasons why -- one of the smaller reasons why the military commanders tell you they don't want one. you can't find a commander saying i want conscripted soldiers. >> what that means, maria, senators and congressmen --
>> right. >> -- and white house official that is will say, you know, we need to just stay the course in afghanistan for another five years because what happens if we leave? well, suddenly, we're much more personal. they'll say, well, my son may die. my cousin may -- now in world war ii, we knew what the stakes were. >> contactually. >> we knew why we were there but those questions are never asked and it's fascinating. always fascinating. all the hundreds of people, maybe thousands by now, that have come across this table, come on this show, leaders in media, politics, leaders in every profession, only known one person who's had a son that's fought in iraq and afghanistan. doris kerns goodwin and tells the story of being at a dinner party in boston in 2002 and telling her friends that her son was going to join up and go to afghanistan and iraq because of 9/11. she said they looked at her as
if she was from another planet. elites aren't fighting this war. they're not touched by this war. >> elites know what happens in war. elites know you get killed. you get maimed. you can become a quadrapelegic. one of the things you see in this all-volunteer army, one of the components of it going in is an extraordinary level of naivety. not expecting the worst and if you have conscripted soldiers in there, a lot of them much more thoughtful about the realistic possibilities are. >> i need to create myself. doesn't joe bide haven't a son? >> i think so. >> i'm sewer there's congressmen and senators. just saying in general, though. >> people who have come on this show. >> yeah. >> most of the people and most leaders aren't touched by war. deciding to stay the course in afghanistan despite the fact we have no end game doesn't cost most politicians anything. >> low political cost and essentially outsourcing and
privatizing the war to people who either have to have a job in the volunteer army or private security contractors looking to make a buck off the conflict. in either case, trying to solve the problem by monetizing it and privatizing it and doesn't work. >> does not. we have to take a break. who's the most powerful republican in american politics? the politico playbook is next but first a look at the forecast with bill. >> we're watching the airports. everything just fine from boston to d.c. temperatures are in the 70s with no issues whatsoever. chicago's looking good, too. as far as the temperature goes, a nice morning from boston down to d.c. pittsburgh and buffalo. humidity's lower than yesterday. no rain today. forecast looks good. mid to upper 80s. d.c. around 87. only area with concern for rain, charlotte. flash flooding north of town. that wet weather across the state into the raleigh area.
chicago, minneapolis, kansas city, rather calm day. rather nice forecast for much of the country including the friends on the west coast waking up. warm weather in los angeles. 91 degrees and sunny. you are watching "morning joe." so, we book a flight to hawaii using our points from chase sapphire. last minute... on christmas.
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you may remember that a couple of weeks ago after rumors surfaced that nfl legend brett favre was about to retire again, i bid him a fond farewell. james? you will be missed. do you hear me? due to your permanent absence from football. but if you do unretire again, let me be the first to say i will stab you in the eyeball with a broken broom handle. well, guess what. >> it is official, brett favre will play in his 20th nfl season. >> he's so great. 20 past the hour. let's take a look at the morning papers. "seattle times." big story of the morning. leaving iraq. the last u.s. combat brigade
departs. "anchorage daily news." a tribute to ted stevens. lawrence, did you deal with ted stevens? >> i did, indeed. >> i was going to ask if you liked him but did you respect him? a guy that knew how to -- >> no. >> okay. "usa today." >> i don't know anyone who did. >> awkward. >> 40-year-old brett favre has agreed to return for another season with the vikings. with us now, executive editor of politico playbook. talk about haley barbour. one of the problems with haley is sets up a dynamic where you have a guy looking like a prototype, southern governor from 1964 running against the
first african-american president and if the media reveled in calling bill clinton a racist in 2008 against barack obama, i just can't believe they'll leave a scrap on this guy's bones if he runs in 2012. >> i think that almost any candidate gnat republicans nominate is probably going to have to deal with that and similar charges. i agree with you that certainly the -- if you look at barbour, southern former tobacco lobbyists. not a great profile for a republican candidate but good on tv, in debate settings handling delicate issues and could probably deal with that probably more professionally and more effectively than a lot of republican candidates could. there's no doubt that that would be a story line. that would be a big narrative of the campaign. could you overcome that and the fact he created one of the largest lobbyist companies in washington. very conservative. he is from the south. i think all of those are
probably bigger issues than the one that you raised but no doubt that would be raised and i think against mitt romney or anybody else that jumps into the race. >> it will. any republican unfortunately is going to be attacked. they will say something or raise an eyebrow in a certain way and somebody in the press will accuse him of being racist against president obama. again, sadly -- >> whoa, whoa, whoa. a republican ran against barack obama. we have already run the test. john mccain ran against barack obama. >> right. >> and no -- what you are talking about did not occur. >> do we want to talk about 2008 and what occurred with bill clinton and hillary clinton? >> tell me how the republican who ran against barack obama -- this is your thesis. if a white republican runs against barack obama he is going to be called a racist. we have run the experiment. it didn't happen. >> i think what does happen, even if the candidate -- if it doesn't happen, i agree it didn't happen much with mccain,
i think the candidate has to agree with the party and the act vitss. there's a poll overnight by pugh showing 34% of conservative republicans think obama is a muslim up several points, up like 14 points and i think that whatever candidate you have is going to have to deal with that and always the racial issue in the background but mccain showed and other republicans have showed and i think society's moved far enough not the dominant issue. >> hold on. hold on. i have to interrupt both of you guys. neither of you lived in the deep south or elected white republican from the deep south. i can tell you there's a presumption of people in manhattan and that live in washington, d.c. and that live in coastal states that southern conservatives are inherently racist. i know it. i just know it. i know that if you got a guy that looks like haley barborur against barack obama, the first
time he says he doesn't know what he's talking about, he's saying that because he's a black man. lawrence, you are living in a dream world if you don't believe that's true. >> if this unfair presumption exists as you say it does, let's remember where it came from. it comes from -- >> bill clinton. >> it comes from this. >> yeah? >> southern conservatives were historically racist. >> here we go. here we go. crank it up. >> the southern conservative was an extreme racist. >> thank you for -- >> southern conservatives -- >> my point. >> murderous racists. >> there you go. >> don't pretend there's no history here and the word lynching -- >> lawrence o'donnell, he is just -- you just proved my point. i'm not pretending that it's not. >> so we agree that southern conservatives were historically racist. >> democrats. >> all conservatives in the south were virtually all were racist. >> maybe in the early 1960s.
name me the early 1960s a national southern republican who was racist. >> every republican -- >> name one. >> who supported segregation in the south. >> name one. >> virtually all of them. >> in the early 1960s, i'll ask you again, name me a national southern republican leader who was racist in the early 1960s while the civil rights bills were being debated. you can't do it. you can name me a lot of southern racist democrats, though, can't you? >> yes. >> this is the debate we'll be having moving forward. >> use the word conservative, joe. >> right. republican. >> talking southern conservatives, okay, these are the people who, if you want to go back far enough, didn't want to abolish slavery. >> but here's the deal. let's not pretend there isn't an ugly -- >> nobody's pretending that and i've never pretended that. i've spoken about it throughout my career but you have to bring that up because it makes you
feel superior. >> no. >> and allows you to attack -- >> the clock doesn't start in 1960. >> hold on a second. name me a racist southern republican in the 1950s on the national level that tried to kill civil rights because i think it was actually dwight eisenhower from kansas, not the south, working aggressively on brown v. board of education. you presumed by people to be racist. >> there's plenty of racism to go around. one of the things out of the civil rights movements is more southern white republicans racist and trying to roll back the clock. jesse helms being a prime example. you had to be a democrat in the south to get elected until that point. >> good point, eric. >> i want to say, though, there's a reason why john mccain was not attacked. but bill clinton was. >> john mccain didn't say anything racist.
>> no, no. because -- >> that's how not to get attacked. >> bill clinton was from arkansas and if you are from the deep south and runs against an african-american you are presumed to be racist if your attack is too strong. bill clinton said things that were racist? >> i'm saying bill clinton knowingly walked right up to a radioactive point within the democratic party where there is a very high level of sensitivity about this and he very deliberately walked away that line. >> so now, you have to give lawrence the last word. >> lawrence always gets the last word. >> i have run out of material. >> jim -- >> jim, i'm sorry. you were just sort of a side item here. >> i'm busy reading a new "gq" article on one joe scarborough and how darn nice and cute you are and turns out that your man crush on mccartney. i thought it was on me, joe. >> i do on you, as well. you can have more than one man crush. >> right. >> there you go. >> something like that.
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on motorcycle, rv, and camper insurance. breaking news on jobs numbers. something like a nine-month high. find out more because it's time. >> first, i want lawrence to finish up. so he does have the last word, though. >> must give him the last word. >> what was you going to say about the discussion about -- my
point is barbour will get ham r hammered against obama. >> you think it's presumption of racism that northern voters will have for a guy from the deep south that sounds like that. >> looks and sounds like that. >> this i agree with. there will be some marginal presumption of that. my point is where does that bias come from? is it currently present? of course it is. >> right, right. >> now the breaking news on the jobs number. erin burnett. we'll start there, erin. ♪ number three >> you need to learn that we do the most important story as number three. by the time you run out of material and really embarrassing television, that's what we call number one. >> that's right. >> i don't know why. >> that's where we get it. >> casey's counting them down. >> unfortunately we just had some news cross which turned what was a good open into what
looks like it's a little bit of a weak one. jobless claims came in. worst we have seen in nine months. 500,000 new claims for unemployment, the highest since november of last year. obviously, we know there's an issue in the job market but we continue to see week after week that it is not getting better and that data trumps some really important data that it caused the optimism this morning out of germany where the central bank came out boosted the forecast by -- for growth in germany, joe and mika, by 60%. huge increase, unexpected. given they trade with the united states significantly, we don't see a double dip in the u.s., also important. >> but the bottom line is the jobs numbers -- >> trumping everything. >> worst in nine months. >> yes. >> wow. when -- and maria's with us. when the best news of the u.s. is things going well in germany, we're not doing too well. >> it's a tough jobs market. i suspect it to be the case this
year and next year. business people are reluctant to add heads because of 2011. higher expenses with health care. higher taxes and not going to necessarily put new heads on the payroll because of that. you have all this uncertainty of financial regulation. >> lawrence o'donnell, we have been talking about the mosque. we have been talking about iraq. we have been talking about all these other issues. politically, there's only one issue, isn't there? the fact that now jobless claims, worse since -- you said in nine months, erin, right? >> yes. november 1st, '09. >> if republicans were in control, this is a nightmare. this is a nightmare for the party in control. >> always the most important political number for a president and why you see different obama achievements occur like last night. the final combat troops leaving iraq. he'll get no political credit
for that. a little bump for obama. >> all about the economy. >> all about jobs, jobs, jobs. >> number two. >> what's number go? ♪ number two >> gm ipo filing. they're banking on china, the world's biggest car market for a recovery. joe, in there, they say, quote, they cannot ensure the accuracy because of weaknesses in controls. >> okay. i love it. number one? now, we said it wasn't important. you say this is the issue of the era. ♪ number one >> i want to switch the order because the conversation you were just having about jobs. this says it all this morning. sears and william sonoma came out and said the economy is uncertain. but the headline on williams sonoma, blows past estimates, raises the outlook on sears. these are the two, let's just call it bookends of the u.s. consumer. just goes to show the haves and
the have nots. at the website, look at a patch work quilt, quilt, sham, tote bag for $39.99 oi pretty good. >> poetry barn, nothing else, twin $50. that's boosting the forecast because people with money able to spend it even pulling back and the people without it are a huge issue. see it in every single company. >> look at real estate across the northeast. if you look at middle class neighborhoods. it's depressed. if you look in, you know, really nice neighborhoods, prices are higher than ever. the haves are doing really, really well. the have notes continue to suffer. >> that's right. >> all right, erin. >> thank you. >> she is an international superstar. >> she is. erin burnett. >> bye, guys. see you tomorrow. going green in california. why a vote to legalize marijuana might pass.
it's this thing like el nino. this air flow that comes from hawaii and canada and it gets the dirt, mixes in with the weed in a special way and very scientific. i am the only guy in the whole city that has it. >> wow. that was a scene from the movie "pipe apple express." here with us -- >> too bad willie's not here. >> probably on the pineapple express. you never know. maria bartiromo still with us. lawrence o'donnell. with us, as well. executive editor of "rolling stone" magazine, eric bates. latest issue looks into -- >> not showing the cover. >> we are not. you will not miss it when you see it. that's for sure. >> oh wait. there it is. i'm sorry. >> breakfast. go back to the weed. there we go. >> thank you. >> looks into california's fall vote on whether to legalize marijuana for recreational use
and it is an electric issue among california politicians. >> yes, it is. >> nearly every major official including top democrats have come out against it. even jerry brown said he's going to absurd lengths to try to distance himself from the measure. quote, we've got to compete with china he recently declared an enif everybody's stoned how the hell will we make it? i don't understand that, eric. so they're running as fast as they can from pot. >> all the leading democrats are. but they may be out of sync this time. this is the best organized campaign for legalization since marijuana was declared illegal in the 1930s. you have major labor unions behind it. head of the california naacp behind it. you have got polls showing about 50-50 up and down. the people supporting it. so there's clearly a trend here and the advocates of legalization decided to go for it this time.
>> so, would california be, what? alaska -- is it legal in alaska? >> no. >> not legal in any state? >> no state. >> they hand out -- a couple of states they hand out tickets. >> 14 states where medical marijuana is approved and you have about a dozen states where it's practically decriminalized and no penalties against it. you don't have any state where it's completely legal. >> what's the impact on the society, though? i guess the netherlands have very lax drug laws. we have just seen in the past month or so that they're now facing a backlash from i guess decades of legalized drug use. when's the downside of it? >> it is like any business f. you don't regulate it, if you don't control it properly, you can have problems. in california, people started to see with medical marijuana that it can be controlled, it can be regulated. that it can be okay. you have half a people in california who take marijuana now medicinally.
>> for the menu -- >> i suspect increasingly seeing a mod toward it desperate for the revenue. the way seeing that with gaming. >> yes. >> it is gambling. >> already legal. >> what do you mean by that? >> medical marijuana thing in california is just an out of control joke. >> it is a farce. >> it is laughable. anyone can get it. there are more marijuana dispensaries in los angeles than there are -- >> pete's asking how? do you have a three-step process for pete? >> cnbc did a one-hour special on the business. it was our highest rated program and tells you where this country is. >> you're absolutely right. the jobless numbers driving this. this is the tax cannabis act and revenues estimated $1.4 billion a year. bigger than the california citrus industry. already the largest cash crop in california. about $19 million a year. bringing in more taxes than alcohol or cigarettes.
>> it is about the money. absolutely about the money. >> this is mythological. >> won't pass? >> it is mythological arithmetic. no one can tell you the law abiding companies like, i don't know, the american tobacco company, will come in here and industrialize the production and sale of marijuana and faithfully pay all of the taxes involved in the sales taxes involved in the transactions. it's still this, you know, mom and pop dealer thing. even within the guise of medical marijuana. >> so let's say that, though -- >> they're all the people who are doing it illegally before. >> that's a good point. >> a bit of an exaggeration. >> you pick up a lot of taxes from cigarettes. what you pick up from people -- people buy the marijuana at their stop n shop and paying heavy taxes on it. >> will they sell it? what big corporations would step into this business and start paying these taxes? >> if it's legal --
>> it makes money. >> still plenty of those that say -- >> a user debt. >> a user tax just as it is with alcohol and cigarettes. the other thing that's driving this is tremendous costs of the system now in terms of crime and incourse ration. >> is cocaine next? "rolling stone" i take it supports marijuana. is this the gateway to the legalization of heroin? >> not a gateway drug. >> no. i'm talking about as far as tax addiction. >> fair to say what are the costs of those drugs in terms of the addiction and in terms of the problems they present? marijuana doesn't present. >> good issue. >> a lot of population is beginning to feel that way thank you. owners are ruining the games we love. sports writer next with that. healthy beauty is a journey.
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so, before you know it, work time becomes well-deserved downtime. apply now at marriott.com/freenightstay. you've got staying power. with us now as part of our summer book series, sport writer for the nation and founder of edge of sports.com dave zirin. a story of liverpool soccer team. >> yes. a chapter on liverpool soccer. >> they are? they're destroying the franchise. >> and the relationship with the american owner tom hicks out of texas. great story. in england, and in europe as a whole, they view owners as care
caretakers of their team. fans here view it as the owner's team and they give us the privilege of going to watch and part of the boom is challenging that relationship. >> tell us about the worst example of american ownership and how americans owners ruined the sport? >> the book, yes, subtle as a blow torch but it has to be. it is not just the $6 hot dogs, the tickets that you have to get a loan for for your family. not just the $9 beer and that should be in the geneva accords. >> $9? >> amazing. >> insane amount of tax dollars and corporate welfare that goes into american sports right now. >> george -- >> how's the owner's fault and not politicians' fault for socializing -- sports socialism is the only accepted socialism in american. >> that's what art modell said. when you have a room of nfl owners, 32 capitalists who act like they're socialists and that
a es the problem is socializing the debt of sports while privatizing the profits. if public money goes into the team, the public should be affording tickets and have a piece of the team, as well. >> in baseball, did it start with george steinbrenner? >> absolutely. i call him the bridge. the bridge between the old school paternalistic owner and then the new school owner to move the team, the new jersey yankees, the connecticut yankees unless i get public money and in the late '70s in the biggest fiscal crisis of the city since the depression, $160 million of public money for the stadium. >> one of the teams is worth it. we have done studies. if you spend money to keep a sports team in your city, you are wasting that money. >> absolutely. >> the great crime is you have the $18 million short stops and the taxpayer in that city who cannot afford a ticket to see the games has no idea that the
only reason he can make $18 million and the only reason is that you're taking tax dollars from those taxpayers. >> i'm so glad you read the book before me coming on, lawrence. >> i didn't read the book to do this. >> he does read title's i'm angry about this for a long time. >> granderson. >> paying such a price for it. five minutes from where i live in d.c. a year ago, the metro went off the tracks. nine people died. they found out afterwards that some of those trains hadn't been refurbished since the carter administration and happened when a billion dollar publicly-funded stadium opened in the city. minnesota, 2008, the same week the bridge collapsed sending 13 people to their deaths they were going to break ground on the $300 million publicly funded twins stadium the people rejected. who signed off on that? tim pawlenty. the american of political hypocrisy is unbelievable.
>> republicans involved. rudy giuliani, one of the great sports socialists of all time. >> he was asked in 2001, why is there not a city referendum for the new stadiums? he said, you can't have a referendum because if you do, the people won't vote for it. >> okay. so lawrence, you say there have been studies. >> yeah. >> because obviously -- >> john hopkins, economists, everybody. >> can't find a nickel. >> tim pawlenty or others say you have -- >> generate -- >> great example. baltimore. inner city bus, horrible place. horrible place. then the orioles put camden yards there. >> no, no. >> i have it in the book. i talk about it in the book. >> after they put that stadium there -- >> great point. >> yes. >> drew me there. i went to the game. >> drew you. >> so what? >> changed millions of people there and changed baltimore. >> you have to -- >> it transformed baltimore. >> you're ignoring the
development of a waterfront chfgs a much more important -- >> which was a precursor of camden yards. even camden yards, the crown jewel example, it actually shows that it takes in more money on a yearly basis in tax breaks than it gives back to the community and the old neighborhood where the old orioles park used to be is now a wasteland and shifted the money from one section of the city to the other. that's the problem. >> i could tell you, it draws a lot of tourists to that area. >> sure. >> why does -- >> economic analyst. >> going with your gut.
lawrence, what did you learn? >> what america learned, lrned something i have already known which is that sports socialism is bad for america. no more $18 million short stops if the taxpayer's paying for it. >> he's had the quote of 2009 saying socialism is hard. >> yes, he did. >> except in sports. sports socialism is easy. >> of all the things we have been talking about, still the biggest political issue is the job numbers that came out. >> jobs, jobs, jobs. over here, my friends, the pauliks of new york. >> hello! >> you guys wave. there, wave. >> right. >> from beautiful west new york. my friends here.