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tv   The Dylan Ratigan Show  MSNBC  January 17, 2011 4:00pm-5:00pm EST

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also despite what you may have heard today is not the most depressing day the year. we'll explain why it is. the show starts right now. good afternoon to you. we begin this week what i believe is a critical economic issue that is not being addressed in this country, confronting klein. the communist country's president lands in washington this week and he claims to be coming in paerks even rolling out a pr campaign featuring prominent faces. a flashy ad blitz doesn't change our trade deficit or the jobs lost to china during the past decade. here we want to take this time to bust some myths. for instance, the myth that china owns all of america's debt. well the numbers actually show
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two third of america's debt is held here at home by american individuals, institutions or your social security funds. in fact, china owns 7.5% of america's debt. not a lot of debt. not a lot of leverage there. or claims that china has a strong economy and doesn't need the united states. claims that nearly half of americans believe. the fact of the matter is china would be running a big trade deficit not a big trade surplus if it was not for the american exports that they continue to profit from by violating trade agreements, reciprocity. we have the leverage on our grossly unfair trade relationship. the question is do our politicians have the leverage to tell american special interests like american corporations that have invested in china that they are going to do this and hurt
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some private interests here in america that are in cahoots with the chinese government. that's how we see it. what's the view in china? who better to ask than our beijing bureau chief for "forbes" magazine. he's over there as we speak. 4:00 in the morning tomorrow. what would you characterize as the chinese view of the u.s. trade relationship? >> well, china would definitely view the relationship as mutually beneficial. they believe the u.s. economy benefits from the growing market demand in china. and that they also benefit from what you've referred to before as cheap chinese products that have kept prices down in the u.s. they said the u.s. didn't complain about that before. so they would say that the relationship is mutually beneficial. they also recognize there are certain economists within china that recognize there are some issues with china's currency and
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export dependent economy from their own front, they want to change that as well. >> i want to read an excerpt. >> they want to make their economy more -- sorry, they want to make their economy more dependent on domestic demand rather than on exports. so, that's a mutual interest that they have but, of course, there's a question of what pace china will go in reforming its economy. >> i want to read an excerpt from "forbes" magazine that speaks to america's leverage to create more fairness in that chinese relationship for instance united states taxes chinese tariffs at 2.5%, china taxes american imports at 25%. here's the excerpt from your magazine. you say china's increasing trade dependence on the united states gives washington enormous leverage over beijing especially because some large portion of the chinese surplus with our
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country america is a tributable to violations of world trade organization obligations. isn't it time we recognize the leverage our market being the american market gives us and use it to get the chinese to stop their predatory trade practices and grossly irresponsible conduct? >> well, that's easier said than done. there's a lot of american companies that are doing big business in china and they are -- the bigger issue is market access on this end. chinese purchasing power is growing. i'm sure one of the announcements you'll see this week is purchase of boeing planes, trade announcements usually when the chinese president goes to france they buy airbus, when they go the u.s. they buy boeing. their imports are growing very fast. the u.s. is also talking about how its exports are now increasing and so it's not as simple that there is china's, you know, manipulating its
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currency and has predatory trade practices. china is more complicated than that. nine that complication how does china explain a tariff that's ten times larger than the america's tariff from america to their country or how do they explain the countless violations of wto agreements? >> well, the u.s., you know, has pursued case with wto before. they will do so again. china makes their arguments there that they have particular circumstances for each of these markets. they deny that they are in violation of wto. they, obviously, the u.s. is famously pursued the tires case and they will pursue i'm sure other cases down the road. the obama administration has shown an interest in doing that. but, china would argue that the u.s. needs china as much as china needs the u.s. and that trade is growing between two
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countries and that chinese imports are growing and so they argue, you know, you can't look at one tariff or one particular policy you have to look at the whole picture. >> so let's look at the whole picture. the trade deficit, if you want to look at the whole picture gets worse not better. i'm curious how the chinese argue that we're getting to a more fair equation if we look at the big picture that shows a trade deficit with china that continues to get bigger not smaller? >> they are projecting a percentage of gdp that deficit will get smaller. and especially in 2012, 2013, 2014 it will continue to get smaller. that's the chinese projection. they say they may be in deficit at some point because they have so much that they have to import in terms of raw materials and nowe more finished goods as wel.
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two years after receiving $43 million from american taxpayers specifically massachusetts taxpayers who gave $43 million in benefits to evergreen solar coming from the american tax base to watch evergreen solar announce that they will move to china with the following statement. while the united states and other western industrial economies are beneficiaries of rapidly declining installation costs of solar energy we expect the united states to be at a disadvantage from a manufacturing standpoint. is there anything you see in the trade policy between america and china that would protect the american jobs tied to like that solar company? >> well, certainly the u.s. could pursue a more protectionist policy but you would have to question whether that's the right move. i mean, china's position would be that's the right move for the global economy.
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going forward you want reduce protectionism. that might seem an absurd argument from the u.s. side that china would be arguing for less protectionism since they had market issues here. >> but stay there for a second and i reference the tariff a couple of times. china taxes imports to their country at ten times, 25% compared to the 2.5%. how does china have any credibility to talk about free trade or global access when their tax rates are ten times ours and there's all sorts of lack of reciprocity when it comes to allowing corporations to sell to china but manufactured in the u.s. >> that's a smaller issue than protectionism in terms of favoritism for domestic companies in general. the pricing, the american companies aren't really going to compete with domestic manufacturers of the same
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products within china on pricing. that's a pretty -- that's a pretty big reach. what's more important is that domestically china has shown an interest in favoring its national champion companies, and not much of an interest in purchasing foreign, foreign suppliers, equipment for foreign suppliers without a transfer of technology. so you have this issue of taking technology or sort of pressuring foreign companies to transfer technology, which essentially is legalized, you know, it would be sort of an updated version of what people are saying is happening for theft of technology. now companies are just handing it over to get market access. that's a much bigger issue than t tariffs. >> human rights question, a war was fought some time ago to end slavery in this country yet the profit margins of american corporations including apple
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computer and others continue to be very robust by employing what i view as chinese slaves. it's as if american corporations and politicians don't want slavery in america but okay to outsource that slavery to places where chinese workers are reportedly forced to work 18 hour, 22 hour shifts, are paid pennies an hour. there's a string of suicides recently. can you give us any sense of how much of china's competitiveness is a function of the fact that chinese labor is treated as perhaps one notch above slave? >> well, i think that would be putting it extremely. that case is troubling they did have a string of suicide, that's the supplier for iphones, ipads in china and hundreds of thousands of workers and they had some reports of really bad working conditions, which, you
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know, i think they are saying they are going to improve. but i think in general, if worker conditions in china are improving, wages are going up. i wouldn't call it slavery in china. far from it. the workers wouldn't call it that. there's definitely workers who are slowly rising up the ladder a bit and although working conditions can be bad in some cases, i don't that represents the entire chinese manufacturing sector by a long shot. >> a real pleasure to get a chance to speak with you. you're life with us tomorrow morning in beijing. we invite you here in america to stay with us for our week long series confronting china. tomorrow and wednesday we'll dig deeper into the leadership here and america. thursday inside the chinese military and friday the road ahead and what the u.s. must do to work towards a more fair relationship including
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confronting american corporations who lobby our own government because they benefit to the rig trade. coming up here on "the dylan ratigan show". will civility survive the week? we're playing musical chairs for the state of the union make a difference? we'll talk about it with the monday mega panel. a new study says japanese men and women are losing interest in sex. what it tells us about global birth rates, global economies and the immigration debate around the world. [ female announcer ] the healing power of touch
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amaze her physicians. she's been upgraded from critical to serious condition nine days after being shot point blank range. she's breathing on her own. in the wake of that tragedy in tucson and calls for greater civility in american political discourse two senators from different sides of the aisle now saying they will buck tradition and sit together during the upcoming state of the union. >> my colleague senator mark udall called for democrats and republicans to sit together at the state of the union. i called up tom after he did that and he graciously agreed we're going sit together. >> some of the problems in our country is we talk past each other not to each other. chuck and i have been able to work on multiple bills because we sit down one on one and work things out. >> but will it change in seating change the tone? house republicans set to push for deep budget cuts and a repeal of president obama's health care law starting
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tomorrow. i want to bring in the monday mega panel. tim, i'll start with you. signs of civility and not being used as a cover for both parties to agree to continue to bamboozle the american people? >> i said on this show a number of times that often talk of bipartisanship is a way of trying to club the other side into agreeing to what you're talking about. when you got coburn and schumer talking, i've seen them team up. bernie sanders and ron paul opposing corporate welfare. there are bipartisan things that are good, and a lot of times, though, if they were two leaders, harry reid and mitch mcconnell i would be more skeptical. if tom coburn wants to look for more areas of agreement with
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liberal democrats on the rare occasion in this occasion i will be optimistic. >> you're nodding why? >> there are two issues here. one, there's actual real very, very strong differences of opinion. and different views about what america needs to do. i think no amount of talking about a more civil discourse can mask that. and in that way, you know, bipartisanship means everybody will agree and there are no policy differences, then it's just not true. but if bipartisanship and civility means you have a starting position that the other person might be someone you disagree with but the other person is also a patriot, the other person genuinely believes that what they advocate is good for america, that i think is a more civil discourse and actually, you know, although it sounds cosmetic i think sitting together can make a big difference. it's hard to scream and say, you know, either democrats or the republicans are unpatriotic people who, you know, we have to get rid of them when that democrat or republican is sitting right next to you.
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>> dylan, the bottom line is we know democrats have never yelled anything like that at all. it's true. i'm very skeptical about it. first of all it's silly this whole sitting together, everybody can share their lunch with each other. the bottom line is there are real differences that are expressed through our representatives. but, frankly, i want to see which democrats are going to applaud if barack obama, president obama actually offers the idea of cutting social security. i want to know which democrats are going to do that? i think from the republican perspective i think that there's an expectation by a lot of their constituents and this is just the reality, you got to remember 60% of republicans have some doubt as to whether or not barack obama is a u.s. citizen. they have pressure from their constituents to do things like yell out you lie. so i think they should welcome co-mingling that way it takes
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the pressure off of them. >> isn't at any time job of elected politicians not only to express what their constituents feel but also to lead? should we expect collective representatives to be more civil than their constituents? >> this isn't a republican thing to shout at the president. you mentioned social security. remember when president bush during the state of the union started to not even articulate how to reform social security but started to spell out the problems about social security just by stating the numbers, the cbo numbers the democrats almost in unison rose up and started booing. >> wait a second. i don't know what cbo numbers you're talking about but social security is completely solvent for the next 30 years. under bush it was solvent for the next 35 years. >> i hope msnbc get the footage of that state of the union footage and play the audio of them booing because president bush was talking about how the
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program was in trouble. this is what happens when we don't sit together. >> let's talk about something more trivial. at least on its surface trivial although if you look into it it's less trivial than you think. a new survey out in japan showing that a shocking number of japanese citizens both men and women are articulating no interest in sex let alone in the horny age of 16 to 19. men no interest, women no interest. ours is not to understand the minds and passions and die sires of japanese teens, but it does have an implication for a country who has an incredibly old population to begin with. we have an age problem on this planet as it is, western europe
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with the ageing of the western european population, the american population and the japanese population. how are we going to solve the population problem if these kids don't want to have sex? >> dylan you're the japanese expert and you have taught there so i think how to make japanese teenagers want sex should be the question that you answer. but what i will say is, you know, what i think is interesting about this is two things. one, it shows that social scientists can be wrong and if you remember 20 years ago the big concern was over population. that was going to be the huge problem of the world. now so many western countries are worried about lack of population growth. the other thing it shows societies that don't welcome diversity or immigrants are doomed to fail and that's the core of japan's problem. >> you're saying that japanese people just don't want to have sex with other japanese people? >> no. >> have more immigrants -- no? >> you are such a scene
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signatur -- sensational journalist. >> ireland wasn't bringing in flood of immigrants as their population was growing. a lot has to do with social morays. >> ireland was open to immigrants. that's not true. >> the government was going ahead -- yes irish immigration in the last ten years has increased. government in japan is going ahead and trying to promote more contraception and smaller families and now in the ap article i read government scientists say we need policies to have people make more boebs. government should get out of the business of dictating families. >> if they tell you to have a family, might be an indication of very effective government policy. sam? >> the real story here is, i think what happened is the japanese economy had been completely stalled for ten years. everybody was down sizing.
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the idea of frankly of having children became less attractive and more of a burden on their society and i think that starts to permeate the culture. people get turned off any activity that leads to having a child. >> as only woman on the panel i have witness final thought. i have a thesis in developed western countries only pro feminine society has a high birth rate. >> between the sexes -- >> sweden which is nonsexist has a high birth rate. u.s. high birth rate. italy very sexist, low birth rate. >> i still think the headline is japanese would have more sex if there were some people that weren't japanese. >> thank you for everything. gentlemen, thank you very much. up next, nowhere to run, nowhere to hide.
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a banker turned whistleblower helping wikileaks turn its attention to offshore bank accounts and the crooks who love to use them to dodge the tax man.
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assuming it's like everything else we receive, yes, there will be full revelation. >> joining me now is a columnist for "the independent" in london. it's been widely believed for as long as there have been swiss bank accounts they have been used for the wealthy, celebrities and politicians to hide their money from taxes or drug dealers to hide their money or stolen money to be hidden. just never been able to be confirmed because of the obvious integrity of the secrecy laws in switzerland. what will the implications be to confirm what's widely been broadly believed with the list of names and bank accounts? >> this has been growing for quite a long time. now it's reached a level it's never been at before. the imf says a third of all money in the world is held in tax savings. a ton number of rich people stash ago way massive sums of money that rightly belong to the american taxpayers.
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the government accountability office in the u.s. says top 100 corporations in america, 18 of them are using it. apple, bank of america, best buy, fedex, kraft foods, target. i can go on. these are companies that can only operate because ordinary americans pay their taxes. they name the roads, they pay for the police and fire departments. those companies are refusing to pay their share. everyone watching this show pays their taxes and if they don't they go to prison. that's not true of the richest people in america or corporations in america. this is a chance to really blow the whistle on that. this is a chance to expose the people who depend on your taxes but don't want to pay anything back. >> and how critical is drawing the bridge between the broad understanding that wealthy individuals and corporations use tax havens to basically assert the burden of police, teachers,
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snowplows, education on the poorer and middle class people in america, what are the implications of being able to tie names and bank accounts to those people? >> well, it's huge. if you look at what's been happening here in britain you get an example of what could happen in america. in britain six months ago, one of our biggest cell phone companies he he owed six billion pounds. they refused to pay. they claim their business was run through a post office box in luxemborg. when the conservative office came to office they cancelled the tax bill. indeed the head of the internal revenue service apologized for being too black and white in interpreting the tax law. now that was an outrage at a time when we're having massive cuts. about six billion pounds. for example could have covered the entire cost of the cuts in housing benefit. 200,000 of the poorest people in
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london have been driven out of their homes. even boris johnson call that social cleansing. something interesting happened. once that information was revealed, once people knew how much this corporation was ripping us off for a protest movement began. a grouch ordinary citizens, nurses and teachers who were facing having their jobs taken away said we won't part with this. if you want to sell things on our street you pay our taxes. they urged everyone in britain to go to their nearest store and shirt down. in 52 cities across britain, stores were shut down. biggest news story on the bbc and our best selling newspaper daily mail. quite a conservative newspaper. this movement is only grown since then. it's been massive. very conservative parts of britain shut down its phone store. people are sick of being ripped off by the rich.
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when this information is revealed a similar action could be happening in america. >> if you were to look at the most basic and most offensive aspect, not just of tax dodging but of american political culture today, whether it's special subsidies, waivers, tax loopholes for corporations, per peri -- health monopolies, multitrillion dollar subsidies for banks that don't lend to american businesses how important is it that we have these little connections between a specific individual as you pointed out the phone anecdote was important to change your country, how important will this wikileaks dump be to this? >> it's important. just imagine if you tried to do
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this, next time you have a tax return, next time anyone watching the show has this tax return send it back and say i put my money in the cayman islands. you'll go to prison. every american is facing cuts in services and higher taxes. these people who can most afford to pay are refusing to do so. one of their excuse is i made the money all myself, i didn't get any help from you. my best answer is, take one of these corporations, safeway which is stashing money away and doesn't want to pay. try for one month cutting off all the services that would be got through taxes that they refuse to pay. so when we don't collect their garbage, infestation of rats we don't send the pest control people. when there's a thief we won't send the police. when there's a fire don't send the fire brigade. they do it with the money that
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every american pays except them. >> listen, a pleasure. keep us posted. we'll stay in contact as wikileaks vets the data and we'll see what kind of anecdotes we come up with. thank you. out of the independent. fulfilling the dream, specifically the dream of american fairness. how we can do more to northern the legacy of martin luther king, jr.. first the myth behind blue monday allegedly the most depressing day the year or is it? we'll be right back. somewhere in america, a city comes to life. it moves effortlessly, breathes easily. it flows with clean water. it makes its skyline greener and its population healthier. all to become the kind of city people want to live and work in. somewhere in america, we've already answered some of the nation's toughest questions.
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if you woke up on the wrong side of the bed today you're not alone. as you heard by now today allegedly blue monday the most depressing day the year that according to a 2005 study by a british researcher named cliff
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arnold. but cliff was a little dodgy. he did this quote-unquote study while on the payroll of a travel agency. they were looking to convince brits to book winter vacation with the travel agency. so, they offered us a formula used to calculate blue monday. they say the w stands for weather. the lower case d stands for debt. t equals time since christmas and q is the time it took to break your new year's resolutions. the capital d never actually had a meaning. just kind of looked cool, right? psychiatrists dismiss the formula but now the myth has taken hold and the mental health groups do the story every january. even if you're feeling blue on this particular monday on the bright side blue monday falls on a federal holiday so we get a day off at least most of us. up next from the pr of
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depression to the economics of happiness. >> we've got to be localizing our politics. localizing our economies. localizing our spirit. >> we'll talk to the woman behind a new documentary about how we can move from global, which may be good for a few powerful interests looking to outsource things like slavery to local which may be good for everybody else. and on tomorrow's show, the one and only, arianna huffington. we're back after this. and you need extra help. ask your doctor about onglyza, a once daily medicine used with diet and exercise to control high blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes. adding onglyza to your current oral medicine may help reduce after meal blood sugar spikes and may help reduce high morning blood sugar. [ male announcer ] onglyza should not be used to treat type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis.
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we're back to talk about not so much glowing global here but to going local. the globalized economy has created gross inefficiencies and hidden costs when it comes to produce goods, conducting trade and creating jobs. it's tremendously profitable to find the lowest cost slave farmer in china to make an iphone but that's not the best thing for the people of this weert. a new documentary focus on ways to fix the broken system we have now and why moving towards a more localized model may be the answer. >> the truth is what we developed today is a system that could not be more wasteful. tuna fish caught on the east coast of america, flown to japan, proseesed and flown back. english apples flown to africa to be waxed. the whole process involves
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incredible quantity of waste. . >> the filmmaker joins us and founder of international society for ecology and culture. how do we come to this place where we're shipping apples around the world to package it. >> we came to it by not looking at the theories which in the 1700s might have made sense but which today are absurd. i found this enormous gap between economic thinking and policy making and what's happening in the real world on the ground around the world. >> what are the implications of interconnectedness, the digital universe and the capacity for such an incredibly responsive and adaptable universe on a local level that's only plausible in the context of modern technology and, yet, all of the government's policies seem to try to prevents that very adaptation and local economic development. >> the implications are that we should be looking at using those
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technologies of communication for information exchange and collaboration to solve our serious social and environmental problems. but instead they are primarily used for an expansionist totally unstable as we've seen in the financial system. we've seen that this speed and scale of trade using those tools is disastrous. for people on both sides of the divide between global north and global south, for labor as well as for the environment, so we really need to re-examine from a big picture point of view what actually is happening. the current forms of communication, unfortunately, are not giving us the time or the space for a more systemic understanding of what's going on. >> what do you think is the most important thing for us to understand? >> the most important thing to understand is that there are actually simple policy steps that could be implemented right
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now that would reduce unemployment and pollution simultaneously. it's a real win-win strategy that is essential right now for our survival but a whole series of myths keep us rushing in the wrong direction, and the tragedy is that this is polarizing societies worldwide, right, left. so many small business people and small farmers and so on think the problem is the left and their emphasis on labor unions, their emphasis on environmental protection, protecting animals, they are not looking at the economic system which inevitably will lead to unemployment and increased poverty. the other thing i want to add is it's so important that we realize that the unemployment that's being created in the u.s. as the jobs fly over to china is actually being mirrored in china. millions of people are being pushed away from smaller businesses on the land, smaller
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towns into beijing which now in effect has 60 million people. and the end result there too is mass unemployment. so we so desperately need a more global understanding. what's so good about it is it can, where it's beginning to happen it's bringing people together from right and left, different races, different be ethnic groups. when they start supporting local businesses you also get this social healing. so it's a real win-win strategy in a really hope people will take it seriously to look at the film. >> the greatest barrier would seem there's one school of thought that look to use technology to create a hyper efficient, hyper output system that's incredibly rigid not adaptable in any way but technology used explicitly for efficiency for instance in the financial system if we did the financial system that bob rubin and bill clinton gave us we end up with this incredible high
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output and any small variance results in $20 billion sucked out of the system because it's so rigid. the other version of technology is not to emphasize hyper efficiency with a few people's benefit but to emphasize hyper adaptability which is also possible with that technology, but threatens the profits of those who send the vast fortunes that they make to our politicians, 40% of all political donation come from the banking sector. the next biggest donor is from the health care monopolies. how are politicians going to do the right thing on release the adaptable, the adaptive potential of technology and forfeit the rhetoric of rigid efficiency that lines their pockets? >> i estimate that less than 1% of the global population is actually actively promoting the deregulation of finance and trade. they are completely linked.
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trade in water, importing and exporting live animals exactly the same process imported and exported in larger and larger quantity. the main reason for global warming and co-2 emission. this same process when people wake up to it, the 99% who are simply not aware of what's happening, when they wake up there will be no doubt what our policymakers will have to do. as it turns out, even in this 1% of the global population, which is about 60 million, there's a huge amount of ignorance. i feel motivated to try to get these ideas out because i have been dealing with policymaker, economists across the globe and i find that almost universally the biggest problem is ignorance because we don't have a clear systemic view of what's going on and the speed and the scale and particularly the blind faith in more and more technology and
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more and more global trade. that's what's driving us in the wrong direction. let's remember that every business right now is actually being subsidized, aided and abetted to use more technology and energy rather than employing people. so we have. deep foundations in our economic system an assumption that made sense 300 years ago that was formulated, it made sense then. hundreds of years ago. today we have to reassess on a crowded planet it does not make sense to continue subsidizing energy and technology and dumping people. >> i could not agree more. all the best with your film. the organization, the international society for ecology and culture. congratulations on the movie. jobs, of course our main focus here on the dr show and the tip of the spear in the effort, the
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steel on wheels we're kicking off the second leg of that tour next week. this focus on innovation even if cussing innovation on solving proushs on making things better, on making things more accessible and in the process creating jobs. but first watch out matt and meredith we're driving our steel on wheels bus right here on the plaza at 30 rock watch for us in the 8:30 half hour of the "the today show" with the bus tomorrow morning. we'll reveal which cities we're headed to next as we continue our fight to create a jobs movement in this country and to highlight things that are working to see if we can get more of them as we fight to get less of the things we don't want. coming up on msnbc a hardball special with chris matthews. his special report obama's america, guests include david axelrod and michael steele. before that fulfilling the dream a daily rant on how we should continue the work of martin luther king, jr.. ♪ now people everywhere
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as the nation pauses to remember martin luther king, jr., many of us wondered what he might think of the world as it is today and that's the subject of our daily rant. kelly, the floor is yours. >> today america officially celebrates the birthday of the late dr. martin luther king, jr. who would have turned 81 on saturday. he's long been an icon he's returned to the forefront of many america's mind due in large part to the 2008 election. many wonder what martin luther king, jr. would have thought if he were to see this today. >> i have a dream.
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my poor little children, one day will live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. i have a dream. >> i can only imagine that man whose dream consisted of seeing little black boys and girls join hands with little white boys and girls. but there's some things that i believe dr. king would not be so tickled about. he might be disappointed to see the lack of progress we made on certain issues. in the 1967 speech before the southern christian leadership conference king said the following, one day we must ask the question why are there 40 million poor people in america? nearly half a century after his death we find ourselves still asking the same question. there are nearly 37 million americans currently living in poverty. those numbers from five years
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ago don't tell the story of those americans pushed to the brink by our recent recession. king would be surprised to see legislative debates whether someone of a different race deserves the right to vote whether a poor person who lost their job deserves unemployment benefits and whether it should be illegal make hiring decisions on race to be replaced whether to make hiring decisions on sexual orientation. it's still legal to fire someone for being gain 37 states. i can say where king was for equal rights. he was for them. his widow came out in favor of gay rights. as we celebrate thrive and legacy of dr. king here's hoping that by his next bitter dare we'll be closer to realizing a few more of them. >> if you were to look at poverty, not race, not gender, not sexual orientation, poverty,
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and you were to look at how many dreams are deprived because of poverty, period, regardless of any other variable, do you think there was a world in which in his mind and it's impossible for any of us to know but 40 years on the culture of poverty that prevails in this country and the acceptance of poverty at the same time we accept the unfairness, the tax preferences for the wealth injuries the subsidies for certain business, that we shouldn't be giving the money away but how can we indulge the extraction of trillions of dollars by health care monopoly, subsidized gambling parlors at the same time endure the poverty this country endures. how do you think the america psyche reconciles that with the culture of poverty. >> one of the things

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