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tv   The Dylan Ratigan Show  MSNBC  January 21, 2011 4:00pm-5:00pm EST

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president obama tapping the head of a company with a huge stake in china, general electric, to oversee his new panel on jobs. ge chairman jeff immelt charged with finding new ways to encourage the private sector to hire and invest in american workers. >> our success in these efforts will be determined not only by what we built in ska knecht did i, but what we can sell in shanghai. we need to export more goods around the world. that's where the customers are, it's that simple. >> ge's china sales are rising about 20% per year, with $33 billion in revenue from china. timed to coincide with the visit from president hu jintao. the deals could generate $2.1
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billion in sales and create up to 5,000 new jobs in the u.s. the panel shifting focus away from stabilizing the economy and towards creating new jobs. so is the ge approach, finding overseas markets for american products the right model for doing that? how do you create jobs at home when many think including jeff immelt himself that the future of global growth lies in china? joining us now from the university of california irvine, economics professor peter navarro. he cowrote "seeds of destruction." we should know that ge is msnbc's parent company. so what do you make of this new panel that jeff immelt is bug put on to lead.
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>> i think barack obama has figured out that we need to create jobs in america. what i would say to the president, keep your promise. you promiseded that you would crack down on chinese mercantile on the one hand we might get the jeff immelt, who's the corporate turncope sent offshore tens of thousands to china, and more importantly, mav, given away critical, or will we get the immelt who recognized some months ago that the chinese don't want companies to succeed in china, and that in order for us to basically create jobs here
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in america we need a ronald reagan moment where our president says tear down the protectionist walls mr. hu, and tear up that undervalued currency. what did you hope for? >> he hasn't accomplished anything. let's put these numbers in perspective. listeners are going, wow, with the $44 billion in deals. at the end of the day, you know how much that is? that's a month and a half of our trade deficit. that's not a big deal. he accomplished nothing. mr. hu came and mr. hu went. i think what we should have done is have him on the white house lawn and buzz the stealth fighter over him like they did to our defense secretary when he was there in china words are cheap, talk is cheap, panels are
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when jeff immelt goes to china and opens up a new facility there, he has to turn over ge technology most of the time those are state-run enterprises so effect 2i68 turns that technology over to the state government. phi yeev from now, what do we get? this was not the way to do it. >> what do you want a corporate leader to do then? he has most of the sales and profits coming from overseas. do you expect him, because he's based in stamford, connecticut or wherever, to run a
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nationalist foreign policy? is that a fair expectation? >> i love that question, matt. what it assumes is kind of the naive perspective of a lot of americans that somehow's china hayes beaten us fair and square. you take a company like cummings engine, or deere, whatever kind of american company that wants to sell into the chinese market, i say all power to them, but we cannot produce machines to sell into that chinese market for two reasons. one is that the chinese won't allow us because of the protectionist tariffs and other barriers to entry into that market, and number two because of their practices. matt, i think it would be great for american companies to selling a bunch of products to china, but we should be making them here on american soil. we let them into our markets, why won't they let us into ours? >> now, barack obama had a more
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optimistic view of what he accomplished this week. we got a sound bite on that. let's listen to the president and get your reaction. >> during these meetings, we struck a deal to open chinese markets to our products. they're selling here, and that's fine, but we want to sell there. we want to open up their markets so that we got two-way trait, not just one-way trade. >> he sounds like he's talking your game. >> at the end of the day if you want to basically set up shot in china, you still have to surrender your technology. it's not that they have to give away the technology, it's part of that transfer that is the
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corn corner most of the people are companies that do a lot of business in china and have kowtowed to the chinese. what we need are voices that exist that are going to give the true story about chinese mercantilism, and you have the think tank guys, the guys on the u.s./china commission and a guy that's fighting tooth and nail to hang on, about you he's not get any support from the corporate community, because it has more interesting in making a buck in china, so we need something on that panel, more than one person that's going to represent the american worker
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and citizen and american taxpayer, not just corporate interests in decline. >> i tell you, we've got a quote from jeff immelt i want to put up, because it sounds like this may be part of the political theater, that corporate america is actually propagating. we'll talk about the oscars later in the show, so maybe there will be a best actor nomination for some of our ceos. here's a quote from jeff immelt -- it's not going to be the engine of global growth, it is going to be the billion people joining the middle class in asia. the only question is when. i mean, that sees right, peter. >> that cements so wrong to a couple reasons. first of all, it basically says american is in decline. here in america you have to be a producer before you're a consumer. that means we have to have our manufacturing bay. if we have our manufacturing base making stuff and selling
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over to china, as far as the 1.3 billion consumers in china, that's laughable. there's 200 million people in that country doing pretty well, but you've got 600 or 700 million people on the farms, peasants earning a subsistens for 20, 30 years. it's the heroin that the corporate executives are injecting in their veins, when in affect when they go to china, they get stripped of their technology and nothing turns out as well as it could, and meanwhile, our manufacturing base in ohio, california, become become, it erodes. that's what we need a conversation about with the president and the congress and this government panel that mr. immelt is basically chairing. >> very briefly, peter, obama is giving his state of union tuesday. what's the one thing you want him to talk about on china? >> currency manipulation.
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time to crack down. many people say we don't need a trade war with china. i say two things, we've been in a war for the last decade, we just haven't fired back. if mr. obama is not strong in front of the chinese, they will have their way with us. he needs a tough posture with china in order for them to make the appropriate adjustments so we can prosper with china, not be beaten down by them. >> thanks, peter navarro. we'll see if the president takes your advice on tuesday. thanks for your time. >> thank you. coming up on "the dylan ratigan show," slash-and-burn politician on capitol hill. can the republicans put down a tea party revolt over spending cuts? plus -- >> to the extent we can convince the 34er7b people we are here to solve their problems by creating jobs, we'll be back. >> democrats trying to chart a path back to power as they hold
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a retreat outside washington. can they also mend fences with president obama? we'll mix it up. new v8 v-fusion + tea. one combined serving of vegetables and fruit with the goodness of green tea and powerful antioxidants. refreshingly good. at purinso we set out toour dog to be discover the sciencele. in some of nature's best ingredients. we created purina one with smartblend. delicious shredded morsels and crunchy bites with real meat, wholesome grains and antioxidants for strong muscles, vital energy, a healthy immune system, and a real difference in your dog. purina one with smartblend. discover what one can do. with listerine® whitening plus restoring rinse. it's the only listerine® that gets teeth two shades whiter and makes tooth enamel two times stronger. get dual-action listerine® whitening rinse.
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we're back to mix it up on invite days apolitical headlines, republicans facing a tea party revolt on spending. and mending fences with president obama. we begin with the tea party versus the gop on the deficit. the conservative republican study committee with 83 new lawmakers is pushing aggressive spending cuts. they're demanding $100 billion this year alone.
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but house leaders are already backing away from that target, saying cuts of about $60 billion are more realistic, but as we know, cutting back isn't easy. while 70% of the americans say the deficit is a problem, few -- most would rather raise taxes than cut medicare benefits. the same goes for social security, the other sacred cow. how can republicans slash and burn like their base wants, or at least thinks they want without cutting programs that most americans like and need. jane hampshire, the founder of firedog lake, and martha zoeller. are we see the tip dale skids frensia that affliction republicans, where you have rhetoric, but as the "new york times" poll shows today, a lot
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of people like the perhaps that are actually in the federal budget. what do you make of it? >> there's a lot of cuts that have to happen outside medicare and social security, but if obama-care is not repealed, there's already been cuts. so there's a lot of issues that have to go on. i think $100 billion is doable in this year. in the fiscal year, i think -- i think the defense has to be -- so i depart a bit from my tea party friends, but i think we have to keep pushing. >> now, these are big numbers, jane, but this is a total -- so even if they're doing 60 or 80 billion it's only a small piece,
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yet i think republicans are getting a lot of indigestion when they realize the impact of those cuts especially when it's focused on such a narrow domestic slice of what government does. >> i almost hurt myself laughing in 2008 when the republicans suddenly turned themselves into the party of fiscal responsibility, as i'm sure many did, after being on drunken spending spree with george bush. the market access program, subsidies for trade association like the chamber of commerce to market overseas, that would cut hundreds of millions. you know farm subsidies to big ag, the ethanol subsidy, all of these things popular with the people, but they're not popular with politicians who are still taking those lobbying dollars, so i think they'll have problems with the base, because frankly
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they could cut that money if they wanted to. >> let's work together on that. i think it would be great. >> i absolutely do. >> go ahead. >> but before we have a kind of, you know, kumbaya, holding hands across parties, but the cuts that jane is talking about, these are tiny pennies out of a vast federal budget. unless you go after social security and medicare, not cutting them, but slowing their growth, which is politically very dicey, republicans will never make good on these broad promises. i think these polls show that republicans will end up hitting the wall and ending up either frustrating the tea party or even the tea partiers end up saying, no, no, we want our medicare and social security. how do you square that circle? >> i hope it's politically dicey. the reason why the democrats only gout four years is because
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they didn't do what they promised. i hope it's politically dicey, i hope it whurts when they make these cuts, because they have to be made. we are not in a situation where we can talk about this from political standpoints. i firmly believe if republicans do what they promise to do, because democrats didn't do what they promised to do, either. we talk about the expansion of spending under george bush, since democrats took that krog, that expansion of spending has been astronomical. so we are on a trajectory that we have to stop. if it means hitting the wall and doing the right thing, i think ultimately the american people will be better off. does it mean we could have another 20% ternover in two years? i say hurray, that's what we need. we need that turnover every single, two, three years, that will keep them honest and keep them away from people that jane are talking about that hold them hostage both on the left and on the right. >> i'm sure, jane, that
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republican leaders will be happy that martha is offering them sacrificial lanes in 2012 in the next eleeks. what about taxes? if we're going to have the adult conversation that everyone says we have to have, if we're going to fix the budget problem, isn't it spending cuts and something on the tax side? aren't republicans dreaming? >> well, i think we had that conversation last december, and mitch mcconned wound up with a trillion of tax cuts. i don't know that there's a political will for that, but the defense budget, what we spend on defense ear overis chloroare toedly 1.2 trillion. with a budget of i believe $54 billion. there's a lot that can be cut if the people have the will to do it without ever touching
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medicare and social security. the problem is there are sacred cows, and i think there's a possibility to demand that our politicians stop giving away our money to large copses that don't need that welfare. let's turn our tensions to the other side of the aisle. vice president joe biden today warming up house democrats for their first meeting with president obama since the midterm election blowout. >> i want you to know that our discussion and caucus during the lame duck i enjoyed. there is a reason why he's joking about the tensions. two years ago house democrats thought they would be in pow forea generation. now they're adjusting to their minority status and will be fighting off republican cuts to everything from energy efficiency programs to low-inium legal aid. obama extended the bush tax cuts, he's going to call himself a fiscal conservative. this on top a federal worker pay
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freeze and possible rollback of government regulation. he mae also put forward cuts to social security and medicare. one question is can all these democrats get along? hi rising approval suggests that maybe a democratic minority is in his political interest, even if it's not in the best interests of his party. what do you make of the democratic internal jockeying. >> well, i want read his mind, i don't know what he's trying to accomplish, but i know they probably will be talking about southern security. a pollster recently did polls that showed the american people overwhelmingly, republican, democrat, independent, tea party, it doesn't matter, they do not want cuts in social security, yet the president may be putting those on the table. pollster salinda lake said this is a great way to consolidate the losses that we suffered in
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the last election, by being the party of cutting social security. it may be in the president's best interest, but i don't think there's anybody that could argue that it's in the party's best interest. >> martha, do you seize president obama borrowing a page from clinton? >> i think he's got to. independent voters are who he lost in the last election. but the bottom line is there's going to be no such thing as a generational control any more, because there's too much information out there. you can't hide your losses, so to speak. i think what's got to happen is they're going to have to figure out a way to get along, but president obama, make no mistake, he's going to put his own reelection for anything for the party. he wants his own reelection. he doesn't care whether thinks coattails are long or not, he
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wants to be reelected. >> jane, just with the last board on this for now, i think martha's point that we're seeing real volatility, that we're seeing parties thrown out and control thrown out, because neither party is finding a way to address the big problems of jobs and the economy. doesn't she have a point? >> well, i agree. i actually think there's a real problem in that there isn't a jobs policy. you've got the white house, who are now pursuing a nafta-style free trade and trying to go to vietnam, who will be outsourcing more jobs in order to make congress and the big business happy, and the people in the midwest, where obama needs that support, are going to be unhappy that this is going to be their agenda. they remember what happened with nafta, when they lost 46,000 factories and millions of jobs. i think that probably will be the biggest balancing act. how does he keep the chamber of
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commerce and those big multinational corporations on his side, yet not lose the voters? >> we'll watch how he stage manages this in the next few days before the state of union. thank you always for your insights and perspective. up next on the dr show, hollywood takes on corporate downsizing. >> thanks for not running any of my calls. if you do return my call, i would love to know how i fired me without any notice, you cowardly witch. >> we'll talk to the director of "the company men" and life in the great recession. here's a myth:
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if you're one of the lucky americans with a job these days, you'll feel especially fortunate after seeing "the company men." three successful guys are living
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large, but when the economy turns, all of them eventually lose their jobs, forcing them to deal with the grim realities of unemployment. >> anyone want to take a guess at what i shot at the club today? >> you're firing me? >> dear god, police help nigh dad find a job so he worcht be unhappy all the time. >> faith, courage, enthusiasm. i will win! we're joining by john wells, the film's writer and director. what made you focus on this story now? >> it began with something that was happening with a anybody of my own family, someone lost their job, and they started telling me about all the things that are happening to them as they went back into the marketplace, very well-educated, and discovered in the large downsizing they had to make their own way. i went from that to interview a
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couple thousand people online, a couple hundred more i spoke to on the phone and heard these one of the stories that were told with a great deal of enthusiasm and sadness and courage, and i wanted to convey what tens of millions of people in this country are going through right now. >> that's a real exercise of empathy also, because you're one of the most successful hollywood producer director writers of this year, as folks know. were you surprised by the pain that you heard, even from folks who were highly educated, with fancy-seeming jobs like the ones in the film? >> yeah. i think what's happened is if you did all the right things, you got the right education, pursued your career and worked hard and got good evaluations that you would be immune from what would happened and now it has happened. now we have these families dealing with it. routinely when we showed the film in theaters during the testing process, i would ask afterward, 250, 300 people, i
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would ask them who in their families had experienced this, or if a close family friend had or if they had. every hand would go up. everyone absolutely is experiencing this or knows someone who is going through it. >> tr there is a moment in the film when tommy lee jones offers a real poignant call to the values at stake. let's listen into that. >> 6,000 men, earn an honest wage in that room, fed their kids, bought homes, made enough to send their kids to college, buy a second car. building something they could see, not just figures on a balance sheet. >> is one of the things you wanted to drama advertise here is the story of people who benefited from the kind of
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traditional corporate values when things with are good suddenly seeing themselves awakened to a whole new reality and broadening their emotional depth? >> yeah, sure, and, you know, we've had a huge change in this country that the film is trying to talk about, where we believed if you worked for a company, you showed them your loyalty for a long time, you did well with the company, that the company would be looking out for your interests as well as their own. we've seen that shift, and i think that will be different for our economy going forward that workers no longer feel as if the companies are looking out for them, and that their loyalty is tested. the harvard business review has recently been talking about the fact you have companies that have been so responsive to their quarterly earnings and stock requirements that they've gutted the intellectual manpower that they have within their companies. that would be one of the difficulties in our returns is so many people have been sent out in the job market. the film also tries to celebrate the fact that we are resilient
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as a nation, that pele do get back on their feet, really through the help of their family and friends, the people that they know, and i heard that over and over again from the people i talked about, it was a very difficult experience emotionally, economically painful, but at the end of it they felt stronger for the experien experience. >> the ceo seems to be the villain in this piece. are ceos the villens in what's happening in the job equation? >> i think they bear some responsibility, but no, i think it's us. it's one of the points that the films tries to make, is not to be too simplistic. there's one of the scenes i'm very proud of in the film where one of the assistants who works for commy lee jones is excited after corporate downsizing, because the stock has gone up 6 her and her 401(k) is worth more. the major shareholders that the companies are trying to please on a quarterly reports are the big pension funds, people who
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actually have money in their 401(k)s. we want a lot out of our investments, yet at the same time the pressures we're putting on corporate executives to try to return those earnings means they're having to be responsive in ways that may not be in the best interest of companies in the long term. >> ultimately even though there's lots of pain in the film, there's a message of hope. weapon folks to go out hopeful. >> i heard that over and over again from people, even though it is the most difficult thing they had been through in their lives, that they found that they met more meant more to their family and friends than just their jobs. the definition of themselves wasn't what they did for a living, and people come out wiser, not to for a moment suggest that these are different, but i heard over and over again that people felt that they learned a great deal from the experience. we're a company -- a country of survivors, and we will find a way out of it on the other end.
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a lot of that will be through entrepreneurs, with people taking chances as tommy lee jones character does eventually in the film. >> the movie is "the company men" out just in time for oscar consideration, so good luck with that. we'll be talking about how to bet on that later. playing the race card, why did former senator rick santorum bring up the president's race when talking about abortion? we'll hear from toure in our "daily rant." and gabby giffords is leaving the hospital, continuing to inspire the nation. and made it less intense. ♪ now people everywhere are getting a deep clean and fresher mouth without the intensity that kept them away. it still kills bad breath germs for a whole mouth clean. but it's never felt so good. ♪ new listerine® zero™. deep clean. less intense.
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gaby opened her eyes for the first time. gaby opened her eyes for the first time. just over a week after president obama made that dramatic announcement, today
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congresswoman gabby giffords was moved to a rehab hospital in houston. touching down just over an hour ago she reached the next step in her recovery only 13 days after a bullet was fired through the left side of her brain. she left tucson university medical center in an ambulance escorted by police and vfw bikers, giving her a dramatic send-off. throngs of supporters wished her well, doing everything they could to show how much they cared. >> we wanted to support her. it's bittersweet, because we certainly will miss her, but we know she's getting the best care. >> just so they know tucson and the country is behind them. >> i thought it was an opportunity to show my support for her. >> of course gabby's husband mark kelly has been by her side day and night. on thursday he talked about her recovery. >> she'll smile at me, she did a
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couple things like pat me on the face. she did that gently. i can look in her eyes and tell. also thursday giffords was taken to the hospital roof so she could feel the sun on her face since the shooting. americans are wishing her the best with her recovery. just ahead, betting on the oscars. we'll talk to our favorite british bookmaker about whether the smart money is when it comes to the academy awards. we'll be right back. everything is better with swanson broth in it. an essential ingredient in any kitchen. swanson 100% natural chicken broth. gingerbread men! egg nog! [ female announcer ] grab a box of multigrain cheerios. get a code to...
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with the super bowl only a few weeks ago, most gambling conversations involves nfl point presents, but betting on super sunday is old hat. there's only two teams to choose from. basically it's a coin flip. why not bet on something that has four, five, or even ten potential winners? that's right, we're talking the academy awards, and we're talking about betting it on it, which is perfectly legal across the pond. joining us from london is head political trainer from on best picture, you've got "social network" as the clear favorite when there's a lot of people pulling for "toy story." what's with that?
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>> well, i think when you're betting on the academy awards, you have to remember who the academy themselves are made up of. a lot of actors. if you put something like toy story, they love roles where there's big acting, triumph overadversity, that kind of thing, so bear in mind not the nips you like yourself, but who picked the winners, and "social network" and "the king's speech" are the two best horse race in our book. >> "the king's speech" is that a bit of bias, because they just won the golden globes and they're showing up well on the odds? >> definitely the golden globes are the blueprint for the oscars and increasingly becoming the footprint. but honestly it doesn't matter what price we offer colin firth, 1 to 8, 1 to 10, now it's 1 to
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16. people are seeing this as buying money, free money. you have to bet $16 to bet one. people say colin first is the best bet of the year. >> people would think that jessie -- jesse eisenberg wasn't in there, that he as a young guy would have a real shot. how do you call that one? >> yeah, he's an outsider, and it's very unfortunate that he's come up against this. they do love this idea of acting, and the fact that "the king's speech" had problems getting produced at all is the whole triumph over yaz versity, and the academic is becoming very formulaic with who they give oscars to. i think that's why "social
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network" as a film is favored to win, but the actors themselves seem to be excluded from that. >> now, on best actress, everyone seems to think that natalie portman will be a shoo-in from the "black swan." >> i think best film will be "social network." i think colin firth is the bet of the year, i think natalie portman could be turned over, maybe seen as a bit too mainstream. i think here annette bening, an old favorite, she even wearing black media specs tess globes, they love that look. the film is very earnest and rites of passage. i think annette bening could be one of the very few upsets we see this year. >> now, since we're talking about betting, we have to talk about football and the super
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bowl. i'm a passionate new york jets fans. if we throw up the odds on the super bowl, you've got the jets as a real long shot, the green bay packers and pittsburgh steelers obviously in much better position. how come you won't go with my jets? >> well, they're not completely out -- 7-2, 3 1/2 to 1 essentially. that's pretty tight. there's been so many upsets on the way, i certainly wouldn't put you off backing them at all. the money is all for the packers, because they've been there -- my concern with your beloved jets is they look like they won their super bowl already, beating the patriots is a massive result, the biggest upset so far. that said the jets have gone there to pittsburgh before, done it, so the form book says that they can, and it's very, very tight on the spread, as we call it, where you're giving points away to each side. it's only plus/minus 3.5. if that was at home for new york, they would be favorite, so just going away is the only reason they're not favorites. of course, when they get to the
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final, i think they'll meet green bay, and that would be tricky. but 3.5 to 1 in a four-horse race, that's not an outsider by any stretch. >> and i'll be wearing my joe namath memorial jersey, so that could help. you have a very interesting bet on brett favre actually playing a regular season football game next year. let's put that up on the screen. it's 20:1. i'm amazed it's only 20:1 that brett favre will see action next year? what do your bettors know that we don't know? >> that's the better question to be honest. we started at 33:1, and then packed backed it into 25:1, and now 20:1. the huge question here is is that just heart and loyalty, or is it reality? and i have a feel this could be sentimental betting, which from a bookmaker's point of view is
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just easy money. >> you never want to let sentiment get in the way of a hard-headed trade. ed, we thank you at always for your perspective. it's great you can make a line on all this stuff. we'll talk to you again, i'm sure. coming up on "hardball," chris matthews looks at the future of michele bachmann. is she serious will running for president? but first rick santorum defending his comment about the president's race, while discussing abortion. it's the topic of our "daily rant" from toure. [ male announcer ] this is charlie whose morning flight to london starts with arthritis pain... and a choice. take tylenol now, and maybe up to 8 in a day. or...choose aleve and 2 pills for a day free of pain. enjoy the flight.
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it's time for "the daily rant" on a show when we've been talking about performances and that he ricks we have to size up a bad political act. touri is hear to talk about rick santorum's controversial comments. >> thank you, sir. the awkward and naive phrase "the race card" is almost always used by wheat people to mean a black person has injected race into a situation in which the white person thinks it shouldn't belong, but why isn't the race card ever used to refer to a white person bringing race into a situation that's not rachellized. surely if blacks have a race card, then whites must have one, too. for example, take the former senator from pennsylvania, rick santorum, who placed the race card on president obama this week when talking about obama's pro-choice position on abortion. >> i find it almost remarkable for a black man to say, now, we are going to decide whour people
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and who are not people. >> what, pray tell, is senator santorum referring to? what does he mean? and what a beehive he's cracked over by needlessly invoking race in this situation, could it be he tell the president should have enough empathy to consideration the unborn five-fifths of a person? i'm lost. partial i wasn't the only one who wanted more context, because fox news had the senator on last night to give him a chance to dig himself out. >> my point was that the 14th amendment was passed to make sure that blacks in american were protected by the constitution, were considered people, because tragically, horribly, for 100 years or more in this country they weren't. so the point i was trying to make is here we have another situation, where the courts have said that a group of people, a
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group of human beings are not people, and that they should be. and that they're property, and they can be -- >> i think that where the discussion sort of goes off the rails where everyone gets revved up when the word "black" is used. >> so because blacks weren't treated lie full citizens under the law throughout american history, then obama should be pro-life? that doesn't track. you could easily argue that black hit torrie could lead to an intense desire to see people maintain complete control over their own bodies and make decision about their body for themselves. black people have blood memories about not knowing what it means to be free, which is why most of us want women to be free to do what they want with their bodies, but obama's position on abortion wasn't rationalized the philosophy that leads him to be pro-choice has nothing to do with race. so for santorum to bring up
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traeningic black history to week the position is just icky and pointless. he's not a black president as much as a president who happens to be black. surely you noticed this never happened to any other president. no one ever said george bush or bill clinton should or should not have made certain decisions because of white privilege, so senator santorum, please pick up the race card you threw onto the table as if it were the king of spades and put it back in your hand. it's a joker, and we don't use those in this game. >> toure, that's just a fantastic, fantastic rant. i'm so glad you picked up on this. i've never a lot of politicians, do you think santorum realized as it was coming out of his mouth he was committing what would be seen as a major gaff, or does it reveal in darkness of heart that we didn't know about
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before this moment? >> we've seen rick santorum say strange things in the past, so i think that it was sort of a mouth moving before brain going sort of situation? when he made the first comment, he sort of spits his game. when he made the second comment, trying to explain it with greta, he was hemming, ahhing, moving, and when he goes to say "black" he stutters, so he knows he's nervous about going forward here. >> when you see that film clip, you can see the defensive look in his visage. is there a cartoon bubble that my presidential aspirations are over, because this will be replayed and replayed? what do you think? >> i think he's definitely thinking i'm in quicksand here, how can i get out? when i'm watching him on gr etta, i'm seeing him in the
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bunker and the sand is coming up over his head, but it's quicksand, so he's going further and further in. yeah, thanks, that's when we hear the pac-man cede of -- game over. >> toure, you're capable of enormous empathy, is there anything, if you put yourself in santorum's shoes, there some kernel of decent thought that you thought he was trying to make? >> i don't think he's giving us hateful thoughts that we typically associate with racism. that's why i didn't want too bring out the big "r" word. he clearly has respect for obama, and for what black people have been through, but i think it's a hand- -- so then the unborn are the same. it just doesn't really track at all. >> so that means that, toure, you have some stuff in reserve,
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anger and criticism in reserve if santorum comes back with more. just briefly, what are you


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