tv Morning Joe MSNBC April 5, 2011 6:00am-9:00am EDT
as decided to do what the tea party wants it to do or do what the country needs it to do, the bottom line is this. at the end of the day, we're all on the same side. time now is not on our side. >> putting medicaid into block is not what you do, put it in a blue box, tie it and put it in the deep blue sea. you're too young to know what it means. this is the beginning of the end of medicaid. >> okay. live look at capitol hill where it's all happening today. good morning. it is tuesday, april 5th. welcome to "morning joe." >> somebody owes you money. >> somebody what? >> somebody owes you money.
>> i know that. what are you talking about? >> the game last night. i'm not talking about a thing that went bad in the bronx. >> those are some new specs. >> can you not do that? >> i didn't say to do it on the air. why doesn't he just put a band daid on the side and go to grammar school. >> geek chic. >> she says it makes me look like a door and chris says it makes me look soft. >> they're geek chic. >> doors adorks are in these da. >> he looks like he's a professor at columbia instead of the old creepy guy taking summer classes to pick up women. >> why are you making fun of me instead of him? >> we'll get to him. >> andrew ross sorkin talking
about geek chic? >> i see andrew, and i see -- >> willie geist, i did not stay up last night because, as you know, we do our work at 2:00, 2:30 in the morning, but i'm told by those who don't help the kids every morning of their lives that this was the most boring, miserable game in ncaa finals history. >> it was a bad game. it was a poorly played game. >> that's what i meant. >> yes. jay our friend said it was the worst game of his lifetime. butler shot 18%. they made 12 of 64 shots. >> and it's not like golf, is it wrrk the lower number's better. >> no, it's not. bad news for them. the score was 22-19, butler. then butler scored for a total of 41 points which is the lowest since the 1940s.
actually since the 1949 game. >> my, goodness. >> it was a bad game. >> was it no fun to watch? >> no. i watched the first half and wu comfortable going to bed. i didn't miss anything. >> it was a brutal, brutal exercise to watch it. it was not worthy of the tournament that preceded it because the tournament had been great up to this moment. >> or the two teams. that's too bad. >> it really was. can you introduce the panel? >> i love uconn. i'm so happy they won. the editor of the deal book for t"the new york times," andrew ross sorkin. john helmond. >> we're going to get to the news quickly and look at the headlines. it's all about the president deciding to do what george w. bush and dick cheney were going
to do. khalid shaikh mohammed somewhere other than the district of new york. you heard barack obama talk about how bush and cheney subverted the constitution and gitmo was against all of our finer principles. we were saying they're going to keep it open. barack obama, how disappointing is this to his base that put a halo over his head during the campaign and put a devil's pitch fork in george bush and dick cheney's hands? >> pretty disappointing. i think not just that they heard it on the campaign trail, but it was symbolic that he was going to close gitmo on his first day in office. i think a lot of the base yesterday was not enthused of his announcement, to have this come on the same day as his announcement, a kind of tepid
announcement that did not fire anybody up, i think it made for a jarring contrast. they thought back to the campaign and saw this and then, really, on this day, you're announcing your election instead of firing up the troops? >> doubling down on gitmo, tripling down on the number of troops in avgs pushing the bush tax cuts. will l willie, i guess -- i'm glad he's doing it. i support the policy, but what's offensive to me is barack obama suggested that george bush wasn't a good american, that he was subverting american principles. >> and you don't think he still feels that way? >> the democratic base basically said that bush and cheney were evil, and yet -- i can tell you this. if i think something is evil and anti-american, when i'm president of the united states, i don't care what the cost is. i'm going to end it, unless i
didn't mean it during the cam pain. >> it's been interesting to hear progressives yesterday to rally to his side. yesterday this felt a little bit different. they're upset about it. and eric holder's press conference, i thought, was remarkable where he so reluctantly said we're doing this, i don't believe in this, it's congress holding us up. they won't allow us to have the money to transfer detainees. it's congress's fault. he wanted to might very clear it was someone else's responsibility. >> there were people who protested and made it difficult, andly say -- i have a question for you. i won't give my opinion on this. >> give your opinion. >> no, no, that's good. you're framing the whole thing so that it's not ever -- you know, you're making it sound like this president's entire philosophy and moral compass is completely now turned over.
>> no. >> and isn't what it appears to be. >> it was just offensive to me. >> no. >> i could sit here for a year and a having, having people come on this set saying barack obama is holy and george bush and dick cheney are evil because they believe in military tribunals and gitmo. if you have to sit here for a morning being reminded for a year and a half -- i want to get in here. you cannot say that a man is evil and anti-american in effect and then adopt his policies, and that's what's happened here. >> well, joe -- >> because i know it's happened here. >> do you think as a president john helmond would have opened gitmo? >> no. >> do you think joe scarborough would have opening get mo? >> no o. >> thank you. >> he promised to close gitmo
and he -- hold on. i just want to underline this. what did i say during the campaign when he promised to close gitmo time and time and time again. >> you're right. it was a very possible prognostication you were going to be right on. you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right. but that does not change his moral outlook and moral compass and philosophy and that he believes george bush was dishonorab dishonorable. >> so you continue that? i e-mail asking you. if you think something is evil and anti-american, don't you reverse that policy? >> i think you sure as hell try. >> he hasn't done it. >> there's the practical reality of the cost of shutting it down. you have have whatever view you want and yet there was a cost to that view. he's taking a practical tactic. >> all right. >> do we have that quote?
the president saying that or is that others? >> throughout the entire campaign, that they're subverting the most precious concepts in american democracy. >> there are precious concepts at risk. >> go ahead, john. you disagree. >> no, i don't disagree that the president might have shown more courage in getting gitmo closed over ta last two years. gitmo at that time was complicit in a policy -- i know it's going to open a can of worms with you but it was the torture policy he was most outraged by him. so gitmo and advanced interrogation techniques which he saw as being profoundly un-american, those two things were wrapped up together, so his harshest criticisms for the president and dick cheney were
bundled up in those two things. he has in fact veered very, very sharply away from what he found most repug nanlt. >> and he found military tribunals. he found gitmo so repug nanlt that as you said he underlined it. the first day in office he said we're going to get rid of. this zbren, don't misunderme. i'm glad that we're not trying khalid shaikh mohammed in the southern district of new york. i think it's insanity. this man does not deserve the same constitutional rights that americans have fought and died for over the past two centuries. he does not deserve it. but at the same time, i am not going to allow this president and everybody else to let the parade roll by after listening to them beat their chest in self-righteous indig nation like jim and tammy fay baker for two years. okay?
>> i'm not going to allow you to completely change what this president and his former leadership is based on. he e may have lost the battle. let's listen to the attorney general. >> okay. so it's okay -- again, everybody seems to be missing the point so i'll say it one last time. maybe he should have just disagreed with dick cheney and george w. bush and not characterized them in a way that assumed the absolute worst, that they somehow did not love the constitution as much as barack obama, that they somehow were willing to shred that document and all the rights that we hold so dear in this country to take shortcuts, okay? because if you're going to make those claims and then do the same thing they that do, then you need to apologize to the american people and say, i was wrong, maybe i shouldn't have been as self-righteous as a teleivan jell left. >> attorney general eric holder said he reluctantly turned course -- >> seriously, that's all i'm
going to say. >> detainees from guantanamo to the united states. >> the reality is, though, i know this case in a way that members of congress do not. i've looked at the files. i've spoken to the prosecutors. i know the tactile concerns that have to go into this decision. do i know better than them? yes. i respect their ability to disagree, but i think they should respect the fact that this is an executive branch function. >> several republicans including mitch mcconnell praised the decision while attacking the administration for ever thinking of doing otherwise. >> for the sake of the safety and the security of the american people, i'm glad the president reconsidered his position on how and where to try these detainees. going forward, this model should be the rule rather than the exception. >> okay. >> a quote? let me give you one.
senator barack obama, 2007. in setting up guantanamo bay, we compromised our most precious values. the military represents a legal framework that does not work and is a terrorist recruiting tool calling it a legal black hole. >> let me write this down. hold on a second. i'm sorry. terrorist recruiting center. >> compromised our most precious values. >> that's a good one. what was the third one? talking points. >> a legal framework that does not work. >> okay. so i don't know about you -- >> so he's keeping a terrorist recruiting center open. >> but i still believe that it does compromise our most precious values. i still believe that. i think it's a shame that we're in this situation. does that make me -- >> what that means is you and i dif owner an issue on the best way to protect america but i'm not going to call you evil and you're not going to call me evil. >> no, and i'm not going -- it's
silly. >> see, i'm not going to accuse you of compromising our moecht precious values. i'm serious. that's what this show is about. you don't judge people just because you disagree with them. have a difference. >> yeah, we do. and i believe this president does too. and you shouldn't say he's evil. >> okay. my head is now hurting because i am talking. this is what barack obama for a year and a half. >> you're doing the same thing. >> a man you loved and praised and said was going to be the greatest president ever. he's now doing something that he hichlgs says compromises our most precious values. all i'm saying is judge not lest ye be judged. he called george bush and dick cheney basically thugs for two years. >> there's a lot hang option that word "basically."
>> you can say the policy. >> you heard this day in and day out. >> he did. >> no, what i did not -- you can say in american political discourse that policy compromises are those basic values without saying that the other person is a thug or evil. >> i don't believe the president said that. >> you don't go into supreme court and say -- >> tell me what's not -- >> you can say those things and not be casting aspurkss on the justices. you can. >> are you suggesting that barack obama did not cast apurgss on -- >> i'm talking. >> what are you talking about? >> i'm talking about the campaign. the dcccc, the organization -- >> i will -- i would like to hear someone find a place where barack obama called either the president or the vice president evil or a thug on the campaign.
i don't know that you'll find that. >> you can seize on those two words if you'd like to. >> i think they're important words. >> the fact of the matter is they did cass >> that's your point. >> exactly. when they do that, what do i do? i call out republicans for doing that. >> you do. >> and i say keep calling it, carry on. i'm saying the parade is going by here and we're supposed to salute and say, no, if you think sothing is this wrong and compromises america's most precious values, you don't double down on that policy. listen. it's barack obama. so he can say whatever he wants to say, and i think the press is going to salute. i'm sorry, andrew. i swear, this is the last thing i'm going to say. >> i'm not going to say anything. we're going to break. >> how is the deal book going? >> deal book is going great.
facebook is going good too. >> i know you're a kid. how's prep school? >> prep school's even better. >> we don't have to go to break do, we, mika? >> let's talk about something light-hearted. i'm so glad these debates are two years behind us. >> we've got a big show this morning. former new york -- oh, lord. you can talk to him about this. we're bringing in the big guns. rudy giuliani will be here. we'll also talk to senator jim webb and congressman mike pence who doesn't fear a government shutdown and award-winning filmmaker ken burns will be here. up next -- >> he said he didn't fear a political shutdown, but willie said he did fear -- what's that about? do you know what that is ee about? >> do you need to hear it again? >> what again? >> you were right. you were right. you were absolutely right. >> i can tell that -- i mean everybody hates me here.
i was as wrong as anybody's ever been wrong. >> bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill. >> good morning, everybody. severe weather outbarack. if you're heading out the door, pay attention. we've had 700 storm reports over the last 24 hours. a lot of clean-up. three fatalities down in georgia. those severe storms are about to roll through philadelphia in the next half hour. new york city, you probably have about an hour, hour and a half before the storms roll through your area. further to the south we're going to watch the strong storms too. so everywhere on the east coast from new york to delaware, further to the south, you're going to have to deal with severe weather. middle of the country, you're going to be just fine. we'll update you as wi go throughout the morning here on "morning joe." of course, you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.
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welcome back to "morning joe." you know, willie, we -- it's been a crazy ride, but there's one thing that ties us together. any time we have conversations like -- debates, they got a little tough. we talked it out. >> did you want to go to your room and say, leave me alone? >> this is one of the issues on "morning joe" that always gets us heated up, but, willie, every time we had trouble, what have we done? people are like, how do you guys debate without hating? that's what we say. debate without hate. debate without hate. actually i just made that up. so -- but, you know the answer. like every time we get to the fabric of "morning joe" is pulled apart, what brings us back together? >> meatloaf. >> why china is kicking our ass.
>> don't do it. don't do it. >> you do not want to [ bleep ] with me. you look in my eyes. i'm the last person in the world you every [ bleep ] want to [ bleep ] with. >> why china is kicking our ass. >> doesn't that -- doesn't that make it better? >> that is amazing. >> you know what happened later, which is the same thing? they fought, they kicked, they screamed. because they love, they came together and moved forward. that's what we're doing here. >> did they really do that? >> yeah, they did. >> time now to take a look at the morning papers. >> we have the -- the fabric of "morning joe" has now been woven back together. >> "wall street journal." the nasdaq plans to announce a rare rebouncing of its index. the plan is to reduce the weight of apple which currently makes
up 20%. >> i don't understand. >> here's the important part you need to know. right now apple represents 20% of the nasdaq 100. it's going down to 12%. the important part is if you own index funds that are correlated, you used to own a lot of apple. you now own less of apple and now that may be a very good thing or ultimately a bad thing. you don't understand? right now you are so highly correlated to what happens to apple that you won't be. >> if i go on facebook here or the new york times. >> i still don't get it. i'm going to read it again. >> is it confusing? >> it doesn't make any sense. >> new york times -- hechts up. >> a federal grand jury has issue add s&p to popular online radio service pandora investing
how much user information its phone apps shares with advertisers and others. do you know pandora? >> yes. >> "boston globe," massachusetts's governor has nominate add lesbian who lives with a partner. he appointed the first african-american justices. he says it was a nice coincidence. barbara was again making history. >> okay. and we have -- we've also made heft with this politico sight. >> let's go to politico's executive editor. >> what's the word you use for jim all the time? >> am i allowed to say it? >> not on the air. >> is it not a bad word? .
it's just a word. >> always good to follow meatloaf. >> the people, democrats, frankly people on the left suggest he's blowing up medicare and medicaid. what's the truth on that? >> he's undoubtedly changing medicare and medicaid in profound ways. when you couple that with a repeal of health care you suldly have a dramatic argument about the role, the size of the federal government. what i don't know is how many republicans are going to back the ryan document. this is huge. big changes to medicaid that could be very unpopular. it's clear to me that every republican leader believes and endorse the ryan budget. i believe there's a big debate about whether or not they're all ready to go this far, this fast. >> where is it going to go from here, jim? is there any way he gets the votes? where does he have to move toward the middle to get some
significant change done on the budget? >> there's no chance that this could get through the senate. there's very little chance it could get through the house. what it does is lays down a marker for republican leaders to say, listen, this is what big change would be. this is what we're willing to do if we could start with resolution this week. this is going to go on for two years. >> we've got to get this year's budget done, by the way. we've got three years left to do that. thanks so much. appreciate it. coming up, last night from last night's championship game. what butler's head coach had to say about their record low shooting. it was the worst ever in a championship game. we'll try to scrape together a few highlights for you. plus, high anxiety over that gaping hole in the southwest airlines jet. the government taking new action this morning. news is next. we'll be right back. we're america's natural gas.
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pretty shot of capitol hill. welcome back to "morning joe." time now for a quick look at the news at 32 minutes after the hour. npr is saying that general petraeus who's expected to leave that job by this fall is being seriously considering for director of the cia. now, that's according to several npr sources including government officials who say petraeus would take the job if he was offered it. the current spy chief leon panetta is being seen as the defense secretary to replace robert gates who also says he's stepping down this year. >> that might be a good move. afghanistan is going to unravel even more quickly after petraeus leaves. i think it's a terrible policy. it's an endless war. we need to bring the troops home. but at the same time, you want petraeus in the government. you don't want him going around making money giving speeching, tweaking the -- you need to keep him close, right?
>> that's an astute political calculus. i would also say, it's good government. he's a guy who has extraordinary talent and knows that side of the government's operations as well as anybody and it makes sense. the other piece of it makes sense also. i think leon panetta is a really good choice to go run the pentagon, especially as bob gates and you do, joe, the pentagon needs to get smaller in the next decade. p panetta has a good history -- he's very strong. and petraeus, i can't imagine a better person to do the cia. >> cia, it really is the toughest agency to run. it's been really tough for leon panetta who's learned to keep his head down after a while, but i think if anybody can handle it, pe trait can. now on the issue of
afghanistan, protests are continuing for a fifth day in response to a florida pastor's burning of the koran last month. this morning about 1,000 demonstrators marched toward the city center. today the protests were calmer than over the weekend where some two dozen people were killed. >> seriously. i mean come on. come on. go home. in other news, a federal aviation administration is ordering all airlines to inspect older boeing 737s, similar to the southwest plane that ripped open in mid flight last week. >> willie, i'm not an aviation expert. is that bad? >> it looks bad. but they don't charge you for bags. >> okay. very good. >> that's covered under the emergency order. those with more than 30,000 takeoffs and landings, 9,000 less than the one that developed a hole on friday, forcing its crew to make an emergency landing in arizona. about 80 such planes are
registered in the u.s. with southwest owning most of them. >> so we don't want to dry on 737s any time soon. >> not just 737s, but 300s, 400s, 500s. >> are they just older planes? >> they're older planes, but in southwest's case, because they take off and land so frequently, it's the actually taking off and landing. it's the depressurization going up and down and they're not long haul flights. the exact same plane had gonen from l.a. to new york routinely, it would be five. it's every time. and because southwest basically turns the flights over so much more quickly that is correct's kwhie they offer lower rates effectively. that's taking a toll on the body of the planes. >> this is a big blow of southwest who's been making inroads on all the marketing. >> and by the way, i think 70 planes they've already taken out of commission or 70 flights.
>> hundreds of flights. >> this is such a -- >> it's a nightmare. >> such a bad business. >> it's a horrible business. now, jetblue. and, of course, we fly all the time. i've got to say right now. from a distance, the one airline that always seems to have it together is jetblue. are they doing alreal right? >> they are doing all right. do you remember what they called the valentine state massacre? i was on one of those flights so i have very mixed views, let's say. >> we feel that way sometimes. >> they don't have wi-fi, so i've become a delta man. >> i will say delta is -- you know, they don't -- they lose your bags, okay? bags don't get there. >> if you're checking bags, you've got a problem. >> you do not check bags. >> it costs too much now. >> who would do that? >> i feel like a super platinum -- >> he's sitting in the front of the bus. >> can i just say that there's some things that willie and i
when we go on trips, especially in vegas, we put in bags that we don't want to put on scanners. >> all the hair products. >> dead bodies? >> like i said, at the top of the show, i'm not judging other people. i don't judge the way you live, so -- >> what is it? >> i'm not going to tell you. >> the hair spray is more than three ounces. >> why don't -- why don't all airlines have wi-fi, again going back to the is be thing? it makes no sense. >> i talked to the ceo of jetblue about this. the cost of implementing it, it's quite expensive. right now they don't need it because they have the tvs. >> we make decisions here. we fly so much, we make it based on who has wi-fi. that means we can work. >> once you start flying with wi-fi, you never want to go back. >> ten-seat private jet versus five? -- seriously if you're flying
from new york to lafr.a. and it in the middle and you've got five hours -- >> if they have wi-fi on the plane, why do i have to turn the computer off? >> that's the biggest garbage. and these people that go up and down the runway -- up and down the aisle, sir, like seriously you're the shoe bomber, it's like the plane's going to go straight down? >> stop. i can't -- >> it's a joke. >> can we talk about -- >> it's -- >> uconn won. >> we're stalling so we don't have to talk about it. >> i love uconn. >> it's the worst game ever. >> this is like the butler/uconn game. >> and uconn won. >> you're missing the point. >> you know what, willie? i would kill to be right 18% of the time. >> then you'd be butler. let's look at the championship
game last night. butler playing now in its second consecutive title game. last year they lost kind of on a long missed shot to duke. that's kendall walkener the first half. these are a couple of the highlights. all we could find quite frankly. this is sheldon mack. a three that makes it 22-19 butler at the half. this thing was ugly. second half, getting a little bit of a lift here. they took control in the second half. two minutes later, landed with a nice catch. uconn up. butler gets an offensive rebound and a putback. why did we show you that? >> it was the first shot butler made inside the paint in the game. 34 minutes into the game. they made three field goals in the entire game. uconn goes up 11. uconn wins the game, 53-41.
this was the scene on campus in stores in connecticut. students watching from the home of the huskies, storming the court there. uconn celebrates its third national title. >> that's so cool. >> nice moment here. all-american, a little hug for the coach jim calhoun. he had 16 points. after the game, walker talked about taking a leading roll on this young team that featured three freshman starters. >> from last season, you know, the loss to virginia tech, no coach, he gave me the keys, you know, from that point on, you know, i just drove. biggest tournament. came off strong. we got a lot of confidence from that denls and we found stock, you know, when it was right. we was unstoppable. that's why we're national championships, the best team in the country. >> they won 11 consecutive. it was just a bad night for butler. the shots wouldn't go in. coach brad stevens acknowledged
after the game, 18% shooting, 12 of 64 just is not going to win you any basketball game. >> we're just coming out of a locker room that's hurting, a locker room that's got a lot of pride because of the way our kids carried us this year. as i told them, i don't care if they make shots, you know. if we would have won and because -- i don't love them any less because we lost. >> you know, it's -- it's really hard to put that into words right now because we wanted a little bit more, but, you know, maybe -- maybe at some point we can look back and be, you know, proud of what this group has accomplished. >> so how about -- here are some of the numbers. 18.8% shooting. that's the lowest in the title of the history game. they made three two-point baskets.
41 total points. the lowest in title game since 1949. jim calhoun, the oldest coach to win a title has three national championships. uconn won 11 post consecutive tournaments. >> what a run through the big east tournament. kemba. >> he's one of the greatest. >> only five coaches that won that medal. in a few minutes rudy giuliani will join us on set. news you can't use, how one anchor was tricked into licking her ipad on television. you've watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.
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we took the audio and combined it with a classic cartoon, and wouldn't you know, it fit together just right. >> okay. mother [ bleep ] i thought those were the [ bleep ]. i'm sick and tired of [ bleep ] you [ bleep ]. you [ bleep ]. you don't want to make me dlp. i am the last person [ bleep ] in the world you ever [ bleep ] want to [ bleep ] with. >> thank you very much with. >> shut the [ bleep ] up. wow. maybe that's where it begins on television. time now -- >> that's love. >> meatloaf on two separate breaks now. that's awesome. >> we're trying to bring everybody together. >> have we had meatloaf on the
set yet? >> no. >> you lie. >> the food, but not the singer. >> we have meatloaf mondays every week we have a contest. people bake their meatloafs across the world, send it here and every third monday we eat it. >> i've been critical of joe. >> this morning. >> when he's wrong. >> rightly so, rightly so. >> no. just that we disagree sometimes. there's certain things we disagree on. but you have a really interesting piece in politico this morning. >> too late, too late. >> no. i actually really like the way this reads and it makes you think because -- >> i like the way it reads is like the ultimate -- >> if you all would let me finish what i'm saying, for some reason it's very difficult for these boys to let me finish what i'm saying. >> there are nice adjectives. >> i've been reading all weekend
long pieces on donald trump that have just been scathing, ripping him to shreds, calling him out. this is a different view of the possible -- what's wrong with you? >> you're cleared to land. you're cleared to land. would you just read it. i want to talk about medicaid with andrew so read this. >> the disconnect between washington's view of reagan and america's perception of him bears repeating in a year when so many gop candidates are being showered with contempt by a new generation of washington elites. as former a governor sarah palin fades from sight, donald trump has become the latest target of stinging political headline. when your political rhett lick shocks a man who believes the rise of the antichrist could be ushered by president barack obama's agenda, it might be time to refocus your communications strategy. but trump clearly doesn't give a
damn what polite society thinks of his politics. >> he says things that shock the political class. for instance, i asked him about his energy policy for this piece, and he said, we need to seize oil fields in iraq. he said, we fought for the war, we paid for the war. i mean that is the sort of thing that will shock polite society in washington. it's kind of like ronald reagan's view on panama canal. if we built it, it's ours, stay away. shocked everybody, but it connected with certain voters. >> i would say one thing they both have in common is a great deal of self-confidence. not a lot else though. not a lot else. >> what do you mean by that? >> i mean ronald reagan he was a serious -- incredibly seriously important person in the history of the conservative boom and he
was in the early left stage. >> in 1979 -- again, i'm not drawing too many comparisons, you go back and look at the press, the hostility from plight political class in '79 and '80, it was vicious. >> well, from the left, for sure. >> from the media. from "new york times," "washington post." >> i mean that's true. but conservatives regarded him as a transformed figure of the american party. >> do you thing trump's going to win -- run? >> not win, run. he'll be in the debate, i would say. >> okay. >> interesting. that will be fascinating. willie's news you can't use next. can a trading site help make you a sharper trader? mine can. td ameritrade can. they've got trading specialists i can call for help. and paper trading. free practice trading that helps me hone my technique. complex options. and free tutorials. online or in person.
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it's got to be time. >> get you caught up on late-night tv. stephen colbert counting down the days now to the government's shutdown. >> i know why you're excited. please, please. i have the same feeling myself because we are just four days away from the government shutdown. which will cripple the v.a., social security, medicare, which means i get to extinguish on my
government candle shutdown menorah. shut downakah celebrates the miracle of telling veterans and the elderly they can suck it. >> there it is. the government shutdown men nora brought to you by stevphen colbe colbert. he's counting down the days. meanwhile john boehner has been tough last night. last night hitting him over a lack of transparency. >> i want to create a white house that's more transparent and accountable than any government we see before. >> of course, you did rm and boy uld like to be able to [ bleep ] glazed doughnuts. but as we both learned over these last two years, it's harder than it looks. see, when you were running for the white house, you wanted to
know what the white house was hiding. now you live in the white house and you want everyone to stop bing so [ bleep ] nosey. when you don't live in the white house, sunlight is the best disinfect tant. when you live in the white house, disinfectant stings. >> this should have been our lead story. san diego news anchor licks ipad. this was an april fools' day played by her co-host. he told her there was a new phone app where you could smell and taste. she believed him. >> do you smell it. lick it. come on. that's not funny. >> oh, geez.
>> that's so odd, buddy. bring it. good-bye, good-bye. >> you know it's bad when the weather guy is smiling on camera. >> oh, wow. >> it seems like a good excuse to be able to say lick it to your co-host on the air. >> that's to your take. rudy giuliani next on "morning joe." (jennifer garner) there's a lot of beautiful makeup out there to cover up flaws and make skin look pretty but there's one that's so clever, it makes your skin look better even after you take it off. neutrogena healthy skin liquid makeup.
here's a president who 189 months before the election is going to use his office to extort contributions on a scale we've never seen before. he's personally killed public financi financing. nobody will try to compete with barack obama for public financing. and he's, in fact, trying to create a chicago style machine for the country. it's not about us. it's about money and the president's abt to coerce and honor the american people. in the end it will be clear in october of next year how big the difference is, and i think, frankly, he'll be a one-term president. >> welcome back to "morning joe." a live look from on top of the rock in new york city. still with us andrew ross sorkin and john heilemann. and joining the table, the former mayor of new york city and chairman of giuliani ce
partners. >> it's been a rough ride. >> i bring in joe. >> i -- >> there's some mean e-mails coming in. awful. >> chris, i know you found at least one person that supported my position on the gitmo issue, right? >> you've definitely taken the heat off mika. one writes he's. shame on you, mika is still the voice of reason on the show. >> well, that's nice. >> again, another one. >> joy, in st. louis writes -- >> joy. >> she's probably sweet. >> this is my positive one. >> do you ever shut up? you are the most rude and ruthless person i have ever listened to but i shouldn't be surprise. after all, you're a republican. >> that's off. >> i haven't done my job. we make very good point.
we have differing points. >> we just disagree. >> and you were right. >> we don't hate. >> exactly. >> debate, don't hate. >> we're going to get to this in a minute. america's mayor -- and people love it when i call him that. america's mayor is with us, so i'm going to let him take the flack for about ten or fifteen minutes here on this main street media hub. >> first, the budget. president obama is hosting congressional leaders at the white house this morning for a high-stakes summit. but with the clock ticking top administration officials have instructed federal agencies to begin drawing up contingency plans. house republicans have yet introduced another temporary spending bill that would cut $12 billion over the next quadriplegic and also fund pentagon for the rest of this fiscal year. that comes as budget talks
stalled yesterday with john boehner criticizing a figure that democrats and the white house have agreed to. he said, quote, this. their $33 billion is not enough, and many of the cuts that the white house and the senate democrats are talking about are full of smoke and moors. that's unacceptable. meanwhile harry reid accused the republicans of being afraid of the tea party. >> republican leadership has another very big choice to make. it has to decide whether it will do what the tea party wants it to do ar what the country needs it to do. the bottom line is this. at the end of the day, we're all on the same side. time, however, is not on our side. >> mr. mayor, will there be a government shutdown? >> i don't know. i don't think so. i hope not. i agree with him. you have to cut medicare, medica medicaid, social security.
i think the president is an he wants congress to pull him in which is one of the problems he has in just about everything but i don't think we should have a government shutdown. i think the government should get everything they can get and save it for the election and take it to the people a year and a half from now. >> john boehner is being pulled now by freshman republicans. he's probably in the toughest position. would think john boehner agrees completely you shouldn't shut it down. he's got a membership that got elected on a very extreme cut the budget, cut spendinging, cut taxes platform and some of them believe that the only way to do this is close the government. but they'll get blamed for it. it's a mistake. >> when we shut the government down in 1995, they said, are you going to yell at the town hall meetings? it was standing ovations. >> paul ryan is expected to release his 2012 budget plan today and that budget would cut nearly $6 trillion from president obama's budget over ten years, significantly change
medicare, medicaid, and call for a revamp of the tax code. >> that's the real story. >> i think the shutdown is a side show it's larger issue of how do we solve the long-term problems. >> what we're talking about in the shutdown debate is half of a% of 1% of the budget. >> it's big. the question is has paul ryan just walked in, you know, to the jaws of -- to the jaws of the democrats or not. and that's the reality. sitting around the table a couple of months ago we were all very frustrated that president obama did not come up with a plan, right? and i think the political calculus was let someone like paul ryan come up with a plan. >> what's paul ryan's talking about doing? >> what paul ryan is talking about doing, it's effectively putting every ebb on an insurance plan. his whole idea is we can't keep paying for this stuff and we need to put some of this burden on the people.
obviously the poorest of the poor are going to be impacted the most, and, of course, the democrats are already coming out and saying we can't do this. but it's about moving people onto a private insurance plan and as health costs go up, guess who gets stuck with the bill. >> but john heilemann, the president knows the numbers are unsustainable. when does he step into the fray and do the honorable thing? he knows the numbers don't add up. this isn't about ideology. it's about math. >> yes. and i think -- you know, i have been more optimistic than it was warranted about the president stepping up to lead earlier this year. i think -- it's not going to go as true. they took a calculation that there was more political upside. and then in hoping that paul ryan has walked into the jaws of political death and putting republicans in a political position, and then be attacking them for tearing down medicare
and medicaid and that was a political winner. i think the president will get serious about this after he wins the election in 2012. >> do you think he will get serious about this? i think there's some kind of mythical idea that they're going to continue on the path. that's fundamentally what's going to have to happen. >> paul ryan wrote for the wall strooel street jornl. he wrote this. this morning the new house republican majority will introduce baujt that moves the debate from billions in spending cuts to trillions. america is facing a defining moment. the threat posed by our monumental debt will damage our country in profound ways, unless we act. we can reform government so that people don't have to reorient their lives for less. this budget is the new house majority's answer to history's call. it's now up to all of us to keep america exceptional. >> mr. mayor, now hearing from inside the white house that the president is going to wait until after he's re-elected door we have, given the economic chaos
across the globe, two years to go deeper in debt? >> no, we can't. i think paul ryan is absolutely right to put this out. you may not agree with all the details of it. somebody has to take it on. he sounds more like a president than president obama. he's willing to take the risk of the political fallout. i don't know if there'll be political fallout or not. >> trying to throw grandmoms out on the street. >> the key reason that pretty much everybody is in bankruptcy is because of health care costs. if you could straight about out one single thing that would straighten out the bunt of new york, california around new york city, it would be the rising cost of health care. >> is the paul ryan plan so far out there that it started the discussion or ends the discussion on day one? that's really the issue. >> i think it starts the discussion. and it becomes -- eventually the american people are going to face up to this. >> i think it would be hip oh
critical. >> you want to take things away, real things that people need. >> yeah. >> the reality of our health care in this country is we have too much and we pay too much for having too much. we could cut it down in half and nobody would be hurt. i mean it's ridiculous expenditure. >> how are you going to sell the american people on taking something away from them and making whatever it is cost more? >> it's something they don't even have. it's something that's been put on a list by the health commissioner in a state that says you have to cover it. if you look in new york, it's twice as expensive in new york as it is in very many o'states because the state requires you to cover many, many other things in new york that nobody ever uses. it helps the industry. it doesn't help the individual. >> i actually commend ryan for putting this budget forward. i think it will set the terms -- >> let me say this. we thought that would start a conversation. that conversation ended very
quickly. >> hypocritical to demagogue it at this point given that. one other story. >> again, though, let's underline the fact the president puts together a debt commission. >> i know. i hear you. >> they come up with tou recommendations and the president walks away from it. >> let me say this about the ryan budget. it's commendable in a lot of was. does not touch pentagon spending, does not put revenue on the table and doesn't talk about social security, which is one of your favorite hobby horses. republicans are like if we're going to do this, we can't do another that's going to scare old people it's courageous document. i'm saying that's what republicans have said. this is the political calculus. they say, if you're going do go that far on medicare, medicaid, they can't put social security in there too because old people are going to get scared. >> you agree. >> that's absolutely correct. >> you've got to go after
spending. >> that should be the answer. this is going to be debated in in the united states congress. maybe the democratic answer could be offset some of the health care cuts. >> so let me ask you this question, mr. mayor. >> they could sit down and compromi compromise. compromise. oh, my god, they would compromise. >> are they going to go there? >> listen. you could go to iowa, new hampshire, south carolina, and say, if you've got social, keep it. if you're in your 50s, fine. but if you're below 50, you're going to be getting social security at 70. get over it. >> social security would be one of the easier things to solve if we could just get past it. >> i need to ask the mayor this very quickly. the grand bargain, could it not be the republican come forward and say we're going after entitlement spending and -- >> i hope so. >> then the democrats come forward and say, okay o, fine, we'll let you go after
entitlements and other spending but we're going to go after pentagon spending and get rid of the bush tax cuts and go back to where they were under bush and reagan. >> you need a president willing to lead, a president that's ll to put his plan on the table that both democrats and republicans can do so. we don't have a president like that. we have a president that follows. >> you'd support raising taxes back to clinton level? >> no. i'd like to see democrats argue that. >> you'd want them to argue it and win. >> no, no. >> here's the deal. if democrats would accept these reforms that would save entitlement program, then i think you could get enough republicans to say i hate it but we're going to return tax rates to where they were under clinton and reagan. >> i don't think you get to that point. that's the issue. >> at the end of the day -- at the end of the day you could get 218 votes do that.
>> you might get the senate, but i don't think you'd get enough republicans in the house to vote for any kind of a tax cut. they all got elected promising basically read my lips. >> i've got to get. >> that's whyite goes tot be even bigger. it's got to not be just entitlement but taxes too. >> you could do it through tax reform. you could get three through tax reform. >> in a mayor policy reversal they say they will prosecute alleged 9/11 master mind khalid sheikh mohammed and others. the attorney general announced the turnaround here. >> i think this was the right decision from day one and he should have been prosecuted in guantanamo two years ago. it shouldn't be delayeded. it's outrageous that he's still not tried. it's all because of the inept attitude of the president and the justice department.
the explanation is insulting. congress forced me to do it. the reality is it made no sense ever to attempt to try him in new york, and 70% of the american people believe that. bipartisan majorities in congress believe that. and the president, once again, has become a follower, which is what our president generally does. he follows. he follows france, he follows the arab league, e follows the congress. he follows public opinion. >> wow. i'm going to leave france and the arab league out of this because i thought that was a good move on his part not to dive into a muslim country alone. >> meanwhile ten days of people dying. ten days of gadhafi moving from a position of defense to being able to take over because obama can't make a decision like a president and hundreds of people got slaughtered during that peefred you of time. and now we're there to protect the people of libya and the only reason we're there is to get rid of gadhafi but we're not for --
>> let me ask you about gitmo. do you thing this president would have opened gitmo? i just want to know. do you believe he would have -- >> he might have. when it was opened -- >> are you kidding me? >>. >> it was neutral. it made a great deal of sense. >> that's where you -- >> here's a military establishment off the shore of the united states. you have war criminals, people that are militants arc you put them there. that's generally what we did during period of war. we didn't bring them to america to try them. we kept this in germany and tried them in nurrenburg. everybody tells me it's good than the federal prisons. they're being treat better in gitmo than the caves they were living in before they ever got there. >> john? >> no, no. i mean -- >> i've never been to gitmo.
>> my company said prisons in gitmo are better than they are in arkansas. but the issue is -- the issue though is -- i'm sorry, the cave thing threw me completely off. it's one of the few times i have been thrown off. >> exercise equipment for khalid shaikh mohammed. >> he looked a little flabby when they picked him up in karachi. >> oh, my god. oh, my lord. >> this is a problem that the united states has right now, just like george bush had. after 9/11 where do you send khalid shaikh mohammed. we finally get countries to take some of these people and then "the washington post" blew their cover and destroyed that program. so where do you send them if not gitmo? >> look. you're now making president's argument. that is the reall up against which he can, which is that the
united states would don't want these people. he has in some sense been backed into the corner. >> it's the same corner that george w. bush and dick cheney was in. nobody said, please send us khalid shaikh mohammed. what if they put him in kansas? they'd say, what he's doing here? get him the hell out of kansas. they don't want him or nuclear plants in their backyard. >> send him to gitmo. >> khalid did not have a -- >> stop. >> suzanne sommers thigh thing. >> this is a vindication of the bush administration handling terrorism. we could go through examples of how he's following through on what bush was doing. this is a "read my lips".
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ryan's proposal except to say that the president looks forward to engaging in a serious conversation where people calmly address the issues at hand and try to come together in a way that can produce a result that the american people can broadly support because nothing like this gets done if it's done in a bipartisan way. >> okay. welcome back to "morning joe." 23 past the hour. a live look at the white house this morning. and joining us now from the white house, nbc news white house correspondent and co-host of nbc's "the daily rundown," savannah guthrie. >> reporter: you know, the the president is having the senate harry reid and boehner over. this is tree miami time at the white house. they're going to be talking about this year's government, the looming government shutdown. some people saying if they don't
find common ground, find a deal by tonight given house rules which require a three-day posting of these bills, you're getting right up against a government shutdown. if they were able to reach an accommodation, they could probably pass some short-term measure and get it done. the threat of the government shutdown is pretty real. they're instructing agencies to prepare their con tin senngy plans for a shutdown. speaker baner is doing something like that on chile. the president the president's message, get it done. we have a top line number of $33 billion in spending cuts. the issue is the composition of these cuts and the white house feels it's time to put aside politics and get this budget passed. the president is going to try to lean hard on the speaker and the majority leader and say stop with the posturing and rhetoric,
get this budget passed. >> the president seems to be, sash na, in a great position where he can allow the house to put up proposals, the democratic senate to put up their proposals, they can scrap and fight and he can come in at the end and go, boys, boys, let's sit down -- i mean whether you're talking about the triage situation or ultimate budget or ebb titgh en -- entitlements, t president can call the republicans mean-spirited and then step in at the end, right? >> reporter: you bring up a good point. aides, if they can position the president as the most reasonable man in washington, they will be happy every time he looks like the guy coming in at the last minute, putting together a deal, coming to the middle, making some concessions of his own, drawing republicans to the b
bargaining table. that's why they feel the lame duck session ultimately gave him such a bounce. he had lost ground, frankly with independents. yes, as much as the president appears to be someone who wants to get a deal, make washington work, who is rising above politics ooh on either side, that's a day that they're happy. >> it's classic where you play your democrats on the hill against republicans against the hill and you want a t triangulati triangulation. >> well, yeah. and look. this is a situation where, look, the fact -- this is going -- however it works out, this is going to be a victory on substance. the leadership proposal for this 2011 was to cut $32 billion. democrats are $33 billion. now the goalposts have moved to 61, and as you pointed out before, john baner is a very weak speaker in some respects. there's a whole revolution.
he happened to be in office. >> 80 freshman. that's an astounding number. >> they're not his people. you saw last week canter is putting himself between him and john boehner. the white house, that's all great for the white house. their attitude is if the government shuts down, nobody's going to blame barack obama. they're -- >> mr. mayor, you and i both believe. it's a brilliant thing. >> it's a classic thing to do. it's a perfect thing for a chief executive to do, play them off against each other, try to put them on the extremes and you seem to be the guy that -- >> do you consider that leadership? >> no, no. >> you say that's the perfect way to be -- >> i think it's good politics but terrible government, terrible leadership. i think a president who was a natural leader would find it impossible to hut himself in that thinking. he'd want to impose his ideas.
he's a follower, an academic and follower on almost everything. even his health care achievement which i think is a disaster, obama care, he following congress and didn't really get what he wanted. >> john, it's remarkable. we had dem crates noting this. save your hate e-mails for the mayor because democrats have come on and said this. it is astounding. i don't think i've seen a president sit back and allow -- we're talking about health care. we didn't know whether he was for the public option for a year, year and a half. >> yet he passed the bill. >> i understand. >> no, no. >> i don't disagree with you. i'm saying they looked at some of the mistakes that they did. they did the opposite. and in the end they looked at it and thought this is a very hard thing to do. we got it done. would you have said the same
thing of bill clinton when he successfully did the same thing back in '94? >> sure. i think the president should put out his vision of what our budget should look like, not so much in the budget fight for this year but for the future in response to what ryan did. this thing has to be compromised. you can't shut government down. i think it would hurt governments if government would shut down. i'm not sure. this is ten years later. it also might hurt obama. it may look like a totally ineffective president. he can't keep the government going. >> joe? >> savannah. >> both sides don't know who the government shutdown would hurt so it's this feeling of mute eyely assured destruction. i think they may ultimately end up with a deal here this week. >> also if you have to leave you don't have to necessarily have followers but at least not people intent on destroying you. savannah guthrie, thank you very
with us now democratic senator jim webb from virginia. senator, thanks so much for being with us. >> great to have you on. >> great to be with you. >> looks like you may be getting out of time just in time. things are getting messier there by the day. let's start with the -- >> i won't be far away. >> let's start with the government shutdown. do you think there's going to be a shutdown? >> it's hard to predict actually from where we're sitting on this. i think that the debate over this continuing resolution is clearly a warm-up for a couple of other ones that they're going to have. if you look at what was in the papers yesterday and today about the proposals that are going to be coming down for the true bunt that will be developed on the republican side next year, this is -- this is an issue that's going to get a lot of attention.
>> can congress afford not to pass a budget and keep the government open, considering -- you've seen how dysfunctional washington is. 11% approval rating. can congress afford to not reach a compromise here? >> i think they're going to have to. this is -- this has been around a number of times. i think you've got the reality on the republican side of having to face some of the promises that were made during the last campaign season in a very direct way. the thing people need to understand is the debate we're having right now isn't a budget. it is the implementation of an appropriate yags process that is ongoing, which makes it a lot more difficult to, you know, make the kind of cuts or have the kind of discussions that they're talking about. but i think we're going to see some really serious minded discussions about how to reduce
expenditures and bring in revenues. i've had my own thoughts on that over the past month. >> what's the best way to do it? how do we get to where we need to be fiscally? >> i've been watching an interview that you just went through. i think there are good arguments in terms of increasing revenues, not from my perspective, not by throwing out the bush tax cuts. i have strong feelings about raising taxes on income that's actually earned income, but by taking away a number of the subsidies that go to big corporations by examining the way the financial sector has worked, particularly like carried interest, i think you could look at dividend income, capital gains income in a different way. and on the other hand, you know, i was in the pentagon and the reagan administration during the time when we put birmingham rugman was passed by the
congress where they mandated a 5% across-the-board reduction in federal spending. they fenced the entitlement program so, that came into 10% reductions of budgets like even the dod budget that had already been scrubbed. i think you could put spending reductions across the board on government programs and ask them to come up with the money. and i think they can come up with the money. >> let me ask you also on the front page of the paper today, most papers, of course, what's going on with the military trials for khalid shaikh mohammed and other 9/11 suspects. do you support the administration's position? >> as always, it's kind of difficult to understand what the administration's position is, particularly long term. what i have supported is the notion that people being charged with crimes of war should not be tried in the united states. they should not be in our prison system.
they shouldn't be in our courts. and the improvements that were made in the military commissions with the legislation that was passed a couple of years ago, i think, has made them acceptable for almost all people who were worried about individual protections before then. so i'm really comfortable with the fact that these people are going to be in guantanamo. it's a state-of-the-art facility. the big question we haven't seen an answer to from the administration is what do you do with other people who are being picked up now for crimes of war if they're going to come to this country? >> that's great question. >> yeah. there are some cases out there. in other words, are you actually going to put them in guantanamo? i think that's going to cause a political problem for the administration if you do that, but i think that's the appropriate place for them to be. >> let's talk about born fighting. that sounds like a fascinating story. you went only a personal
journey. what did you find? >> well, i wrote this book in '04 after thinking about it for decades. the impact of this particular culture, the olstra scotts, where i came from myself there's a segment called fight, sing, drink, praise, if you look at what this culture has brought to our country, it's enormous but forgotten. they give gave us so many of their military traditions. they brought us country music, the celtic music that percolated back in the mountains after 100 years of isolation. they brought us moonshine and other types. >> they also -- >> bible belts. >> euless grant, pat buchanan.
>> the most important thing that this culture brought was from the democracy of the scottish kirk they gave us populous stile democracy, jacksonian-style democracy. for those of you who think we should be taking care of the people at the baysinger society, you have the scottish to thank for that. >> how the scots i rash shaped america. sunday at 8:00 p.m. on the smith sohn ian channel. thank you very much. up next, congressman paul ryan is leading the charge on the budget. he'll be with us when we come back.
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transocean calls 2010 o, quote, the best year in safety performance in the company's history. the company bases that apparently on what it describes as its exemplary statistical effort. >> that reminds me of a company's worst christmas card i've ever seen. merry christmas, hindenburg zeppelin associates. congratulations for 364 incident-free days of flying. >> straight ahead, paul ryan coming up. >> paul's coming up? >> yes. >> he's going to delight you. >> he's a nice boy. we've got a budget to talk about. ♪ sun in the sky ♪ you know how i feel i feel lighter than ever. i lost 52 pounds. ♪ and i'm feeling good
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the senator instructed his staff not to even tell the chairman of the subcommittees on the senate side the negotiation point os that we were talking about. and i find that absolutely strange. >> welcome back to "morning joe." with us now from the capitol, house budget committee chairman congressman paul ryan. >> how are you doing this morning? >> how are you doing? >> hi, mika. how are you doing? joe, everybody else? >> mr. chairman, they're already attacking your budget plans. >> they don't like it. >> what's funny is they haven't seen it yet. >> they don't like it, paul. >> they've seen the basic framework. >> they saw my op ad. >> is it possible in this political environmental to get something as sweeping as your budget plan through? >> well, i hope so. and this is a sincere attempt. look. i can't look my kids in the eye, constituents in the eye with a clear conscience and not try to
fix this country's problem. look, we have a huge debt problem. we've got a big spending problem. we need the economy to grow, so we're trying to tackle those problems here. under control. i worry that this is nothing but politics up here these days. but we got to get through that. we can't have a bunch of politicians up here yelling at each other pointing fingers. we need leaders to come up and tackle this country's challenges. if we keep kicking this can down our road, our children are going to inherit a diminished country. this is something we know and we have to do something about it. >> mr. chairman, when you think about this, some people are calling this plan quite radical. politically and strategically, are you considering this the beginning of a conversation meaning go on a radical side to get people talking and then meet somewhere in the middle or are you considering this the middle? >> i don't know if i say -- i don't look at it in those framework in those terms.
this is a plan that pays off our national debt. this is a plan that creates millions of new jobs. this is a plan that saves medicare and medicaid from bankruptcy and insolvency. >> but it puts an enormous burden on the poorest people in this country. >> actually, i would -- no iwould not agree with that. this saves the social safety net from -- the social safety net is tearing apart at the seams. we're patching the safety net, getting people on the lives of self-sufficiency. we're collapsing -- we have dozen of different job training programs that aren't working. we're collapsing them into career scholarships to help people get off well faerks off dependency, on to skooshlgs on to lives of self-sufficiency. if you read this document, what this is an attempt to do is repair the social safety net, make it work for the 21st century. hasn't really been modernized since the '60s and save the entitle programs. if you keep it the same, nobody
55 and above sees a change. we need to reorganize the policies so americans don't have to reorganize their life. as far as compromise, i'm willing to compromise. you can't get to talking about compromise until you start putting ideas on the table. >> we commend you for doing that. >> yes, we, do don't we? because, mika, for months, we were saying, the republicans aren't going to do anything. so let us just stop right now and commend -- >> now there's a leadership position. he's come out with a plan which is more than the democrats can say. >> i really like him. >> thank you, mika. >> so -- but you said you're willing to compromise. where would that be? >> well, let's see if they even put a counteroffer out there. i mean, alice rivlan and i designed these medicare reforms. she was clinton's o & b director. vice chairman of the federal reserve in the clinton administration. a proud member of the brookings institution. these entitlement reforms are
based off those models she and i worked on together. so john breaux, a democrat from louisiana and bob kerrey, those are ideas those guys were putting out there in the 1990s. i took so many ideas from the fiscal commission. we took dozens of proposals and recommendations from the fiscal commission that erskine bowles and allan simpson shared. so we are taking ideas from both political parties and putting them in this budget plan to go forward. i'm trying to get to a consensus on how best to achieve these goals, how best to pay off the debt, get the economy growing and make these entitlement programs work for future generations because you know what? the trustees at medicare and medicaid and social security are telling us these programs are going bankrupt. these programs are bankrupting the country and we can't let that happen. >> john? >> just for the sake of this discussion, let's put the entitlement stuff aside, although you've obviously taken the most dramatic steps in those
areas. there are three things a lot of deficit hawks think you have to do to bring the budget into balance. do something dramatic on the spending side, take on spending and take on social security at some point. all three of those things you've left out of this. >> that's not true. >> to the xents i'm wrong about that, explain the ways in which you've tackled those three areas. >> we take $78 billion out of pentagon spending and apply it to deficit reduction. we agree with bob gates. he's taken $178 billion out of waste and efficiency at the pentagon. $100 billion back into defense capabilities and $78 billion into deficit reduction. on revenues, we believe we should not be doing a big tax increase because you need economic growth. so we're doing revenue neutral tax reform. that's similar to the commission. the commission raise someday revenues for deficit reduction. but if you broaden the tax base, get rid of all the loopholes and deductions which restored
economic. you help small businesses and entrep newspapers the heritage foundation ran a good model. nearly a million new jobs created next year alone as a result of this plan. this plan they estimate brings unemployment down to 4% by 2015. $1,000 per year, on average in extra family income as a result of this plan, according to those estimates. so you got to have economic growth and tax policies a key to that. but on the pentagon spending, we have to get savings in the pentagon. >> what was your third thing? i forgot. >> social security. >> this is an area i believe we still have a shot at really bipartisan agreement. now look. on health care, we know where the president and the democrats have gone. we totally disagree with that. we put all these specific alternatives out there. but we chose to do this, which is a trigger on social security. if a trustees certify that social security is going bankrupt, which they, do then that requires the presidents to bring a plan to congress and the house and senate to bring plans for fast track consideration.
what we're trying to do is set the table to get all parties to come together to fix and save social security. social security is not the big driver of our debt. it's a contributor, not a big driver of the debt in our future. in my personal opinion, this is the room we have the best chance of a bipartisan agreement with this congress, this president and this house and get this done. i think symbolically it would be huge for the credit markets. i think it would be a confidence booster for our country. so we put a social security trigger as our sincere attempt to get bipartisan talks going on that. >> willy. >> congressman, it's willy. i want to ask you about the politics of this because the american people have watched john boehner and harry reid bicker in public over how to create a budget. just for the next six months in this country. it's not clear they'll be able to get that done by friday and the government may shut down. what can you tell the american people right now? how can you reassure us that you're going to be able to tackle much, much big questions, the ones you put in your budget? >> that's a fair question. the reason we're in this little
skirmish is because a budget didn't pass last year at all. the house did not pass a budget last year. that's why we had this funding lapse. we'll now have passed three bills preventing a government shutdown and get something spending cuts. nothing has been passed the senate. we need movement in the senate to prevent the shutdown. on the big issues of the day, we're going from talking about billions to trillions. we have trillions of dollars of problems in this country. and, look, the key deal is this. the sooner we tackle these fiscal problems in america, the better off everybody is. if we don't tackle them soon, then it is bitter european-like austerity. cuts to currency, tax increases that slow down your economy. we want to preempt that. nobody 55 and above sees a change in anything that they are experiencing in their lives. we can do it if we go now. and that's what we're proposing to do. >> paul ryan. chris lick just said in my ear, i'm in love. i'm sorry. seriously. >> give the man credit for putting out a plan when nobody
else would. >> and mickey you can't say there's a party you know anymore. >> well played. >> he's not playing anything. >> no, well done. look. >> the heart of a wisconsin patriot. >> okay. over the top always. >> she's trying to compliment him. >> i am being nice. >> as nice as she can to be a republican. >> i think you've done a great job. good luck. >> nice see you, too. >> paul, thank you. good luck. >> thanks, joe. more with "the new york times" -- >> that's impressive. is that just me? that's impressive. nobody is talking. all right. >> color me skeptical. >> okay. >> willy. >> thinking you can get anything done. >> congressman mike pence will be with us. you're sneezing. i'm allergic to you. doubtful, you love me. hey, you can't take allegra with fruit juice. what? yeah, it's on the label. really? here, there's nothing about juice on the zyrtec® label. what? labels are meant to be read. i'd be lost without you.
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members of congress have intervened and imposed restrictions balking the administration from bringing any guantanamo detainees to trial in the united states. those unwise and unwarranted restrictions undermine our counterterrorism efforts and could harm our national security. they have taken one of the nation's most tested counterterrorism tools off the table and tied our hands in a way that could have serious ramifications. the reality is, though, i know this case in a way that members of congress do not. i have looked at the files. i've spoken to the prosecutors. i know the tactical concerns that have to go into this decision. so do i know better than them?
yes. i respect their ability to disagree, but i think they should respect the fact this is an executive branch function. >> good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast as you take a live look at new york city. welcome to "morning joe." back with us on set, business columnist and editor of that question deal book for "the new york times," andrew ross sorkin. >> that boy is good. >> also national affairs columnist for "new york magazine." john heileman. >> somebody what? >> somebody owes you money. >> i know that. what are you talking about? >> the game last night. i'm not talking about the drug deal that went bad in the bronx. somebody owes you money. >> well, mark halperin does. >> yes. >> those are some new specs, i like them. >> yeah, can you not do that? >> very nice. >> i didn't say you should wear them on the air. >> you don't like them? >> everybody hates my glasses. >> why doesn't he put just a band aid on the side and go to
school. >> she says it makes me look like a dork and chris says it makes me look soft. >> it's geek chic. that's what it is. >> exactly. that's what it is. >> dorks are in these days. >> so speaking of -- >> good news for you. >> he looks like he's a professor at columbia instead of looking like the old creepy guy taking the summer classes to pick up women. >> why are you making fun of me instead of him? >> he'll get to me. >> i'm going to get to you. >> andrew ross sorkin talking about geek chic? seriously? >> thank you very much. >> okay. hold on a second. geek chic. i see andrew and i see -- >> okay. thank you. >> and willie geist. i didn't stay up last night because as you know, we do our orphan work at 2:00, 2:30 in the morning. but i am told by those that don't help the kid every morning of the day, this was the most
boring, miserable game in ncaa final history. >> it was a poorly played game. >> that's what i meant. our friend said it was the worst championship game of his lifetime. i think he's about 46, 47 years old. that's a lot of games. butler shot 18%. they made 12 of 64 shots. >> and it's not like golf is it, where the lower number is better. >> no, it's not. bad news for them. the score at halftime was 22-19, butler. then butler scored 19 points in the second half for a total of 41 points which is the lowest since the 1940s. actually since the 1949 game. it was -- >> it was a messed up game. >> it was no fun to watch? >> i watched the first half and was comfortable going to bed. i wasn't missing anything. >> it was a brutal, brutal exerstis watch that game. >> it was not worthy of the tournament that preceded it. the tournament had been great. >> or those two teams. >> wasn't worthy of those two teams. it's too bad. >> it really was. >> so we're going to get to this
in news really quickly. look at all the headlines, john, and it's all about the president deciding to do what george w. bush and dick cheney were going to do and try khalid shaikh mohammed somewhere other than the southern district of new york. you were on the campaign trail and you heard barack obama talk about how bush and cheney subverted the constitution and gitmo was against all of our finer principles. we were saying, they're going to keep it open. barack obama, how disappointing is this to his base that put a halo over his head during the campaign and put a devil's pitchfork in george bush and dick cheney's hands? >> pretty disappointing. it's not just that they heard it on the campaign trail. was the first thing he said. very symbolic he talked about closing gitmo on his first day in office. i think for a lot of the base
that yesterday was not that enthused with the president's announcement of how he announced the beginning of his re-election campaign, to have this come on the same day as his announcement and kind of a tepid announcement that did not fire anybody up. i think it made for a kind of jarring contrast. thought back to what the campaign was and they saw this and they thought, really, on this day you are announcing for re-election, a day you are supposed to be firing up your troops you do this thing that seems to be completely at odds with what we are getting. >> doubling down on gitmo. tripling down on the number of troops in afghanistan, pushing the bush tax cuts. willie, my bigger point is this. listen, i'm glad he's doing it. i support this policy. but what's offensive to me is barack obama suggested that george bush wasn't a good american. that he was averting american principles. >> and you don't think he still feels that way? >> the democratic base said bush and cheney were evil and yet --
i can tell you this. if i think something is evil and anti-american, when i'm president of the united states, i don't care what the cost is. i'm going to end it. unless i didn't mean it during the campaign. >> it's been interesting, as john said, to hear progressives yesterday who have rallied to the side of president obama as he's done things that they would have killed bush for doing. yesterday this felt a little bit different. they are upset about it and eric holder's press conference i thought was remarkable where he reluctantly said we're doing this. i don't believe in this. i know the case better than congress. it's congress that's holding this up. they won't allow us to have the money to transfer the detainees from military prisons into the united states. this is congress' fault. we don't want to do this. he wanted to make very clear this was someone else's responsibility. >> there were people who -- >> did you buy that? >> -- protested and made it difficult and i will say -- i have a question for you. i won't give my opinion on this. >> don't give your opinion. >> no, that's good.
>> because you are framing the whole thing so that it's not ever, you know -- you are making it sound like this president's entire philosophy and moral compass is completely now turned over and isn't what it appears to be. >> it was just offensive to me. i had to sit here for a year and a half having people come on this set saying barack obama is holy and george bush and dick cheney are evil because they believe in military tribunals in gitmo. i took that for a year and a half. so if you have to sit here for a morning being reminded for a year and a half that -- i want mika in here, but you cannot say that a man is evil and anti-american in effect and then adopt his policies. and that's what's happened here. >> joe, well -- >> mika, is that not what's happened here? >> do you think this president would have opened gitmo? >> no. and i'll tell you -- >> do you think this president would have opened gitmo? >> no. >> thank you. but that's all i have to say. >> it's not that simple.
it's possible potentially to close it. >> if it is wrong you stop it and he promised -- mika, he promised to close gitmo, right? >> i agree. >> and he promised in the campaign. and hold on. i want to underline this. what did i say during the campaign? >> you were right. >> when he promised to close gitmo time and time and time again. >> it was a very possible prognostication that you turned out to be absolutely right on. you are right, you're right, you're right, you're right. but that does not change his fundamental outlook, moral compass and philosophy which he feels that the bush administration was dead wrong on and perhaps even dishonorable. >> so you do something that's his honor andable anti-american and you continue that if you are president of the united states? no, i'm asking you. if you think something is evil and anti-american, don't you reverse that policy? >> i think you sure as hell try. >> well, he's not done it has he? >> there's the practical reality there, the costs of shutting it down. i think you can have a view, an ideological view, political
view, whatever view you want and yet there's a cost to that view. i think he is taking sort of -- >> but andrew, my bigger point is disagree without saying that george bush and dick cheney hate america. >> do we have that quote? the president saying that? or is that others? >> throughout the entire campaign they were subverting the most precious concepts in american democracy. >> there are precious concepts at risk. >> you disagree? >> i -- no, no, i don't disagree that the president might have shown more courage on getting gitmo closed over the last two years. i just think that you are mischaracterizing what he was most chagrined by on the part of bush and cheney was that gitmo at that point was compliceit in a policy that had, and this is going to open a whole can of worms with you. it was the torture policy he was most morally outraged by. so to him, gitmo and advanced interrogation techniques which he saw as being profoundly un-american and subverth of our
best ideals in terms of how we deal with international justice. those two things were wrapped up together. so his harshest criticisms for the president and cheney were on a whole bundle of things. i don't disagree with the first part of your statement but he has, in fact, veered very sharply away from the thing he found most morally repugnant was which was advanced interrogation techniques. >> he found military tribunals repugnant. gitmo so repugnant. he underlined it and the first day in office he said we're going to get rid of this. again, i don't want people to misunderstand me. i am glad that we're not trying khalid shaikh mohammed in the southern district of new york. i think that's insanity. i think it's insanity. this man does not deserve the same constitutional rights that americans have fought and died for over the past two centuries. he does not deserve it. but at the same time, i am not going to allow this president and everybody else to let the
parade roll by after listening to them beat their chest in self-righteous indignation like jim and tammy faye bakker for two years. they have been outed. >> i'm not going to allow you to completely change what this president and his form of leadership is based on. he may have lost this battle. let's listen to the attorney general. he talked about exactly what happened. >> so it's okay -- again, everybody seems to be missing the point. so i'll say it one last time. maybe he should have just disagreed with dick cheney and george w. bush and not characterized them in a way that assumed the absolute worst. did they smau did not love the constitution as much as barack obama. that they smomehow were willing to shred the rights that we hold dear in this country to take shortcuts. if you're going to make those claims and do the same thing they do, then you need to apologize to the american people
and say i was wrong. maybe i shouldn't have been as self-righteous as a televangelist. >> attorney general eric holder reluctantly reversed course because congress passed legislation in december -- >> and seriously, that's all i'm going to say. >> detainees from guantanamo to the united states. >> the reality is, though, i know this case in a way that members of congress do not. i looked at the files. i've spoken to the prosecutors. i know the tactical concerns that have to go into this decision. so do i know better than them? yes. i respect their ability to disagree. but i think they should respect the fact this is an executive branch function. >> several republicans, including mitch mcconnell, praised the decision while attacking the administration for ever thinking of doing otherwise. >> for the sake of the safety and the security of the american people, i am glad the president reconsidered his position on how and where to try these detainees. going forward, this model should
be the rule, rather than the exception. >> okay. >> mika, you asked for a quote. let me give you one. senator barack obama, 2007. in seth up guantanamo bay, we compromised our most precious values in seth up the detention values of guantanamo. they represent a legal framework that does not work and is a terrorist recruiting tool calling it a legal black hole. >> so do you all think that he doesn't -- >> let me write this down. hold on a second. so i'm sorry. terrorist recruiting center. >> compromised our most precious values. >> most precious values. that's a good one. and the third one? >> a legal framework that does not work. >> does not work. >> i don't know about you. >> so he's keeping a terrorist recruiting center open. >> but i still believe it does compromise our most precious values. i still believe that. i think it's a shame that we're in this situation. does that make me -- what? i truly believe that our
president went into this -- >> what that means is you and i differ on an issue. >> it kind of means that -- >> the best way to protect america. but i'm not going to call you evil and you're not going to call me evil and you're not going to suggest that -- >> i'm not going to go nanny, nanny boo-boo, either. >> so i'm not going to accuse you of compromising our most precious values because we disagree. that's what this show -- i'm serious. that's what this show is about. you don't judge people just because you disagree with them. we have a difference. >> yeah, we do. and i believe this president does, soo ttoo and you shouldn' he's evil. >> my head is now hurting because i am talking -- this is what barack obama did for a year and a half. a man that you loved and praised and said was going to be the greatest president ever. but he is now doing something that he himself says compromises our most precious values. all i'm saying is judge not that ye be not judged. the president called cheney and bush basically thugs for two
years. >> no. >> yes, he did. >> there's a lot hanging in that word basically. i'm not sure i ever actually heard him -- >> i'm sorry. >> it compromises our most basic precious values. >> you can say a policy. you can say -- >> you were on the campaign trail. you heard this day in and day out. >> he did. >> no, i -- you can say in american political discourse that a policy compromises our most basic values. without saying the other person is a thug or evil. i think there is a distinction between those. >> i don't believe the president said that. >> we look at supreme court decisions and say this is wrong. i think it comprmss our basic values. >> tell me what's not -- >> you can say those things and not be casting aspersions on the justices. >> your suggesting barack obama and the left did not cast aspersions on the values of bush or cheney? >> i'm saying -- >> what your talking about? >> i'm talking about everybody. his campaign.
the dccc. those that helped raise him a billion dollars to win. >> i would like to hear someone find a place where barack obama called either the vice president or president evil or a thug. >> i just don't know you'll find that clip. >> you can seize on those two words if you'd like to. >> i think they are important words. >> the fact of the matter is they did cast aspersions on cheney and bush's character for two years. no, really for eight years, didn't they not? >> as republicans do on democrats all the time, i guess is your point. >> when they do that, what do i do? i call out republicans for doing that. >> you do. >> and i say keep calm and carry on. but the parade is just going by here and we're supposed to salute and say, no if you think something is this wrong and compromises america's most precious values, you don't double down on that policy. but listen. it's barack obama. so he can say whatever he wants to say and i think the press is going to salute.
so i'm sorry. you go ahead and talk. this is the last thing i'm going to say. >> i'm not going to say anything. how is facebook going? how is deal book going? >> deal book is going great. facebook is going great, too. >> i knew it was something like that. deal book is working out. >> how is prep school? >> prep school is even better. >> is this your senior year? >> our next guest says he'd rather have a government shutdown than set up a bad budget deal. we're going to bring in representative mike pence. also the 150th anniversary of the start of the civil war. we're going to talk to filmmaker ken burns about his epic documentary on that chapter in american history. first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> good morning. severe weather is rolling through the southeast overnight. continues this morning. florida is the hot spot. in new england, the storms have weakened. from new york to new jersey, the severe weather, no more of that. going to be windy. temperatures will fall during the day. significant airport delays. right now 30 minutes is the
worst of it up at boston. as far as today's forecast, temperatures are going to drop from here. rain showers off and on for the first part of the day. talk about severe weather. over900 reports of severe weather. all those little dots indicate where severe weather was reported over the last 24 hours. we had three fatalities. most of those were in georgia. as far as severe thunderstorms go, the worst i-4 from tampa to orlando. severe thunderstorms rolling through with winds up to 60 miles per hour. that will be the worst of it as we go throughout the morning. by this afternoon, we're done with all our severe storms. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. for three hours a week, i'm a coach. but when i was diagnosed with prostate cancer... i needed a coach. our doctor was great, but with so many tough decisions i felt lost. unitedhealthcare offered us a specially trained rn who helped us weigh and understand all our options.
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♪ we are just four days away from the government shutdown which will cripple the v.a., social security and medicare. which means i get to extinguish one more candle on my government shutdown menorah. it celebrates the miracle of telling veterans and the elderly they can suck it. barukata, boehner al mazel tov. >> it's time to pick a fight. >> if liberals in the senate would rather play political games and shut down the government instead of making a small down payment on fiscal discipline and reform, i say shut it down.
welcome back to morning joe. my mother called. she thought john heileman was awful awfully mean to me. >> you may want to apologize. >> mrs. scarborough -- >> she didn't call. i t was just a cheap little -- >> mary jo? >> mary jo. >> you can't help but respect the kind of son mary jo raised. >> i have respect for mary jo. >> for putting up with me. >> a little bit of pity. >> you know who mary jo likes a lot? >> sympathy and respect. >> you know who she likes? >> i bet she really likes -- >> probably this morning more than me. mike pence. mike pence. my mom is as conservative as it gets. >> uh-huh. >> no wonder she doesn't like me. >> no, she doesn't like you. >> not at all. >> she does like mike pence. he's with us from washington,
d.c. the congressman from indiana. mike, are we facing a government shutdown? >> is it going to happen? >> i think that's up to harry reid and chuck schumer and the liberals in the senate. it's been more than 40 days since republicans passed a resolution to fund the government with responsible budget cuts through the end of this year. we passed it again last week. and, you know, 40 days, 40 nights and some change, liberals in the senate are just continuing to posture. continuing to pose. and so, you know if there's a government shutdown this week it will be on their hands. >> it will be on the democrats, not republicans in any way, shape or form. just on the democrats. all their fault? >> well, no, look. we went through, i think, more than 90 hours of debate. hundreds of amendments, many of which passed on a bipartisan basis. we kept our word to the american people and found $61 billion in savings this year. that's what we told the american people that we would do. we sent that to the senate not once but twice.
and so far, all we've seen from harry reid and chuck schumer are, you know, words like extremism, reckless, irresponsible and, i think the american people see through this. they see that $61 billion is scarcely a down payment on fiscal discipline and reform. we have big challenges ahead in the budget. the debt ceiling battle. the appropriations process. let's just get this done. let's keep our word to the american people and let's have it out. >> you know, mika, there's an old saying that generals are always fighting the last war. and we've been talking about it around this table today. you really don't know who is going to take the blame if there is a government shutdown. of course, last time it was the republicans. look at these numbers we just put up. it shows the american people are going to be split on who is to blame if there's a government shutdown between republicans and democrats. you have no idea how that's going to break and that is just something, again, it's not going to hurt conservative republicans to shut down the government. the question is does it hurt the president? and that's what the white house
has to calculate. >> also, congress isn't that popular these days. i don'taining shutdown is going to help either side. >> historically, we've used the 95 example all the time. around the country in state governments this happens all the time. governments get shut down. there's political science literature that shows when you have divided government, what the people almost always do is blame the legislature. both parties. democrats and republicans in the legislature. they let the executive off the hook. again if there's divided government. so the big advantage, the big problem at the white house is that they don't have someone like newt gingrich to demonize. so far that's john boehner. i said earlier, i think he's in a pretty weak position. but he doesn't look like a flaming lunatic. >> i just don't think you can dem demonize paul ryan either. >> you were right when republicans ran in 2010 you made these big promises to the country. nonetheless your leadership
initially came forward with a package of cuts that was $32 billion. conservatives in the house pushed the leadership to expand that to $61 billion. you now have democrats basically at the table where your leadership was only two months ago. now some people would say that's a pretty big victory for republicans and in a divided government situation, republicans should be happy with that. that you are getting the amount of cuts that your leadership initially put forward. why is that not a reasonable compromise position to keep the government open? >> you know, i think there's a lot of talk understandably about the table at "morning joe" about whether republicans win or democrats win and how it plays politically. i think the american people need to win one. i've been out here in washington for ten years. and i have seen this parlor game in washington, d.c., again. it's always, you know, don't cut him. don't cut me. cut the program behind the tree. i think this is not 1995. the american people know we have to take a decisive step to change the fiscal direction of
our national government. republicans said we would find $100 billion in savings off the president's budget in this year. that will take $61 billion in cuts. i think the american people need to win that fight. and house republicans, i think, need to dig in and demand that $61 billion number, and i think we need to dig in now. >> congressman pence, it's willie geist. a lot of democrats have called your amendment to this budget the amendment to defund planned parenthood a deal breaker. they say no budget will be passed through the senate with this in it. on the other side, some conservative republicans say they will not vote for any budget that does not have it in it. your willing to hold up this entire budget over defunding planned parenthood? >> well, of course, i am. i think the american people have begun to learn that the largest abortion provider in the country is also the largest recipient of federal funding under title 10 and they want to see that come to an end. i think there's a broad consensus in this country
regardless of where you stand on the subject of abortion. there's a broad consensus for decades now opposing public funding of abortion and abortion providers. i heard chris smith yesterday say every single major advance that has been achieved since roe v. wade in the congress was always a deal breaker. was always a nonstarter. we're going to dig in, and we're going to fight for the principle that taxpayers should not have to subsidize the largest abortion provider in the country, namely planned parenthood of america. >> this is like a deal killer for you, right? >> well, you know, for me, there's no more important issue than the sanctity of life. and respecting the tens of millions of americans who cherish the sanctity of life, respecting their right not to see their tax dollars used to provide or promote abortion. >> so you would -- if the choice is between passing a bill that will keep government open that
continues to fund this or shutting it down, is this like the one issue that you would vote to shut the government down on, if any funding goes towards planned parenthood? >> well, it's not the one issue. you know, i'll tell you straight up. i think we've got to keep our word to the american people. the american people sent a deafening message to political. it was most clearly expressed in the house of representatives with a historic and decisive changeover of leadership. hr-1 with $62 billion in cuts, defunding planned parenthood, defunding obama care represents the will of the american people and you bet we're going to fight for that. >> congressman pence, thank you very much. good to see you again. >>you, mike. a century and a half has passed since the first shot was fired in america's civil war. we'll talk to award-winning filmmaker ken burns about the upcoming anniversary. first, business before the bell with erin burnett, next.
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let's get a check on business before the bell with erin burnett. she's live at the new york stock exchange. >> we're going to have a little bit of a lower open. a couple of key things to watch. deals is one of them and apple the other. texas instruments buying national semiconductor. both, obviously, chip names, for $6.5 billion. it's a cash deal.
that's why it matters. you're seeing all these companies not using stock. they are using cash which is a real vote of confidence. that's important. also apple because the nasdaq announced it's going to be rebalancing. it won't happen until may but the takeaway is this. apple was 20% of the index. it's going to be cut to 12%. so that could hurt apple shares a little bit because fund managers have to rebalance. microsoft perennially the sort of lagger in tech is going to more than double its stake in the nasdaq. that's actually important. in terms of the shutdown in washington, everyone is talking about it. on wall street, the mood is they'll figure it out. they'll deal with it. we don't want to hear about the politics. we had a fun take on this. pringles got bought today being bought by a company scald diamond foods. $2.4 billion. for pringles. as we talk about dealing with entitlements or choosing to not deal with entitlements like medicare, medicaid, pringles were worth $2.4 billion might say something to everyone.
until america stops eating pringles we have a problem. guess what one serving of pringles has in calories? >> i think it's completely fat free, zero%, plus i think it gives you six or seven of the essential nutrients, willie, that every young child needs to grow up. it's packed with vitamins. >> 16 pringles, according to pringles. >> 16. >> 150 calories. 15% of your fat. one can, because we all know you know, it's fairly hard to stay within the count. >> i eat them by the count. >> 938 calories. >> how many? >> 938. >> oh, good. >> 938. >> one healthy day, joe. >> willie, that keeps us below the 1,000 count. >> pringles are worth $2.4 billion. we have a problem. >> the nice thing about the can, too. when you are done you can drink the crumbs. >> oh, yes you do. >> that's a breakfast and lunch together. >> well, breakfast. i have another can for lunch. so you bring us good news.
my breakfast comes in under 1,000 calories. that is awesome. >> you are only 50% done with the day by breakfast. >> i try to keep it around 5,000 a day. >> all right, erin. thank you. >> serious carb loading by the mid-afternoon. >> gross. ken burns next on "morning joe." tdd# 1-800-345-2550 absolutely, i mean, these financial services companies tdd# 1-800-345-2550 are still talking about retirement tdd# 1-800-345-2550 like it's some kind of dream. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 it's either this magic number i'm supposed to reach, or... tdd# 1-800-345-2550 it's beach homes or it's starting a vineyard. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 come on ! tdd# 1-800-345-2550 just help me figure it out tdd# 1-800-345-2550 in a practical, let's-make- this-happen kind of way. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 a vineyard ? schwab real life retirement services is personalized, tdd# 1-800-345-2550 practical help that's focused on making your retirement real. open an account today and talk to chuck tdd# 1-800-345-2550 about setting up your one-on-one consultation. tdd# 1-800-345-2550
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>> still unbelievable that i watch at 6:00 and in the green room they repeat it at 8:00. willie walks in while he's on talking and -- >> how is this happening? >> how is this happening? the space continuum. >> we don't do this in public television. >> so ken, though, i have to -- i'm sorry you had to sit through two gitmo. >> were you upset? >> no, i enjoyed the argument. i enjoyed the way that you said and i think it was correct that it was about framing. if you start off with the supposition he went around the campaign trail saying they were evil. i never heard him say that. then you can make a fairly credible argument. but i think the larger issues, the historical and constitutional ones, get missed in the fire of rhetoric, which is how lots of things devolve in our contemporary scene and why the civil war happened in a way because it's a fundamental -- >> let me just say, my man, you are good.
but i'm not going to let you segue to the civil war series yet. >> we have to talk about the red sox. >> we're talking about something much bleaker. having to put up with willie geist while the red sox are 0-3. >> i have to say in all fairness we beat him up so badly last fall when it was the four of us with mike barnacle beating him up. so i think we deserve a little bit. but it is early april. >> adorable. >> very early. >> mike barnacle, always says baseball is life. we just woke up with indigestion. >> we don't even open today. >> we're lucky to be in the standing. here are the standings. >> good lord. wait a second. you guys made these standings with my graphic. >> buck showwalter gets in everybody's head and the other team s heads. >> it would be nice if carl
crawford got a couple of hits. >> big papi hit a home run in his first game. that monkey is off the back. >> they move crawford to seventh and he gets two hits which may be a more natural position for him. >> i don't know why you'd want him in that position to begin with. >> here's the segue. >> don't do it. >> speaking of hits, let's talk about ken burns' civil war. >> what a guber. >> that's the best -- >> if you don't let my compromise segue happen. >> the hits just keep on coming. >> so awful. >> take it away. >> 150 years and it's still the single most important event in american history. i made six films before the civil war and every single one on the brooklyn bridge, on the shakers, statue of liberty, huey long, thomas benton had some determining factor of the civil war. everything that came before the civil war led up to it. everything since has been a consequence of it.
and we're debate -- everything we argue about today has some antiseed en antice anticedence. >> why did that film break through america's consciousness. >> it wasn't the memorization of dry dates. it wasn't an emotional archaeology. we were excavating, something that spoke to this traumatic event in the childhood of our nation. my mother died when i was 11. that's hugely formative for me. the civil war is the most important event. that traumatic event. everything that came before it led up, as i said. when thomas jefferson said all men are created equal it starts our first act. now he -- >> i was just going to ask from the moment he wrote that, was the civil war inevitable? >> you hate to see inevitable in a country whose genius was compromise but people were so far apart on this. it was the fire eaters were so
upset in the south. the abolitionists were so fervent in their desire, obviously, to end this slavery. 4 million americans were owned by other americans. 45% of the south. there were 9 million people in the south. 4 million of them were owned by other americans without any rights, except they were counted for aportionment. notice that wasn't read when -- that wasn't the part of the constitution read when everybody started this session of congress feeling it necessary to remind the people of that. >> and i stepped on your line that thomas jefferson owned slaves and yet you called him, i think i remember -- and you are exactly right. a few others said this. the man of the millennium. >> yeah. you'd be hard pressed -- anybody who could distill a century of enlightenment, thinking into that second sentence of the declaration, head to be counted among the most important and most influential people of all time. however, he still, as all human
beings are, deeply, deeply flawed. he's sleeping with his teenage slave. and producing children from that. i mean, this is -- this is the reality that we don't teach and we want always a positive exceptional american history to be our mantra. and it is. and at the same time, we don't wake up to the inherent tragedy in the civil war. >> you don't throw jefferson out. you don't say we -- we must disregard him because -- >> this is the failure of politics. small pea politics which is it's a dialectic. everything is red state or blue state. it's good or bad. it's black or white. it's young or old. >> exactly. >> it's whatever. >> and when is it truly ever that? >> well, it's never that. >> it's never that. >> if anyone is a parent you know instantly any of these things are -- >> parent or a spouse. >> everything is a negotiation. everything requires compromise. everything we understand. people in other countries look at us and the gulf between, say,
a mike pence and, you know -- >> barney frank. >> barney frank is so small compared. and we continually drive trucks between each other to accentuate the difference. >> exaggerating the issues, right. >> because it sells. if it didn't sell, rush limbaugh and glenn beck would be out of business. >> we talked in the green room about this new book out about 1861. remind me the father? >> adam goldhart. >> a great new book. are there new elements to this story we've been talking about for 150 years that you are trying to bring out even now? >> the story, the past never changes but our perspective does. each generation rediscovers and remakes that past it makes meaningful. we're always going to find meaning and we're always going to find new kinds of meaning. when i was a little boy, african-americans were absent. we thought they were passive bystanders. now we know they are active, engaged, dedicated, self-sacrificing soldiers in
this intensely personal drama of self-liberation. tell me a better story. but that was absent from earlier history. so now we're adding new things. we're understanding more about the radical republicans in congress and the way they reshaped the whole sense of the presidency, the whole sense of our government to push through the amendments that would guarantee freedom for the slaves. and then the collapse of reconstruction delayed it until jackie robinson. >> but, ken, the thing that makes the civil war such a remarkable film and a remarkable story, just like world war ii it was the good war because it was framed around slavery and setting slaves free. and yet there's a moment i remember in the civil war when shelby foot said, this wasn't about slavery for lincoln, which is a very controversial thing to say. i was surprised that was in your film. >> oh, no, we want to include it. initially, first of all it was about slavery for lincoln. a person opposed to slavery was elected and the southern states
went out. first he had to hold the union together. the passionate identification with the idea of union was such a powerful idea. we know why southerners fought. you are invading our country. but the amazing thing is why northerners fought. why would you come from northern michigan and risk your life? it was for the idea of union. after he solidified a victory then he could move it on to the higher plain of emancipation. >> ken burns, thank you. >> always good to see you. >> we'll be right back. >> i wish you were here at 6:00. solution: td ameritrade mobile. i can enter trades. on the run. even futures and forex. complex options? done. the market shifts... i get an alert. thank you. live streaming audio. advanced charts. look at that. all right here. wherever "here" happens to be. mobile trading from td ameritrade. number one in online equity trades. announcer: trade commission-free for 30 days,
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welcome back to "morning joe." i learned a couple of things. first ihave to be very care bfl what i say at 6:00 a.m. because ken burns is watching. i apologize. >> secondly, he's a grandfather. >> oh, my gosh. >> congratulations. >> i am a grandfather and a new father all at the same time. it's the best. >> but you know what i learned today? i learned at willie geist is a shape shifter. he was on live msnbc, live "morning joe" but he was in the green room. how can you explain this to me? >> another dimension. >> neither can i. >> you should do a whole film on that. >> i