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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  April 21, 2011 5:00pm-6:00pm EDT

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he'll make rich making electric cars. why else would you bet the farm? congratulations on the film. >> thank you. >> premiers tomorrow night. >> come on down. >> i would love to you. if that's a sin veer invitation, i'll see you there. i'm dylan ratigan. "hardball with chris matthews" starts right now. dumping the trump card. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews down in washington. leading off tonight, trumping trump. the man who beat the drum on president obama's legitimacy, who claimed he's launched an investigation into the president's birth and who said his investigators are finding amazing things, well that man donald trump decided to take a step or two back from the lunatic fringe. after the whirlwind birther
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charge, he wants to focus on other issues. nice try. how do you say never mind once the tooth paste is out of tube? plus, a reason he's getting so much publicity is history is repeating itself. back in 1988, the democratic presidential candidates were considered so insignificant they were known as the seven dwarfs. today two polls came out showing a clear majority of republican voters, 56%, are enthusiastic about one candidate. the one named no one. what does that say about the republican field? and president obama's chances. also, explains trump. plus, obama versus ryan. each side is using the budget battle to frame the debate for 2012. republicans want to demolish medicare as everybody knows. the president wants to keep the checks going. out to people that need the money who need the health care. who do you think wins that argument? and, republicans have opened up an incredible new battleground on the labor front. you won't believe this one. charles dickens is back. they want to get rid of child
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labor laws as we know. bring back oliver twist. "the new york times" poll show that is the republican party is truly become the birther party. what wait until you see the stats of "the new york times." this is not a robo poll. this is tikt poll and all about trump. howard fineman joins us tonight and jonathan martin. great to have you on. donald trump, not that he needs more space but got some space in "usa today." wrote an op-ed piece. quote, sadly the press has en masse chosen to glom on to but one of the myriad issues i have discussed and would tackle as president. allow me to repeat here what i have said on numerous occasions. i have spoken my piece on this issue. and many people have the same doubts as i have. my concern lies with people like the single mom who recently wrote to me that she now works a third job to pay for the gas to
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get to the other. well, that is tough and well written, i must say, howard. the question is, how do you get the tooth paste back in the tube? wait until you see the numbers tonight. the numbers on birtherism, it is the new religion of the republican party. >> let me give you a slightly analogy of@paste. his saying that he's upset that people in the press glomed on to this issue is like saying i put a piece on sirloin on the table and upset the dogs are jumping to get it. >> i don't like the dog part. >> he knew exactly what he was doing. this is what brought people into the tent and only thing to keep them there. >> it wasn't a tofu out there. >> exactly. >> once it's on people's minds, the polls are unbelievable, that vast majority of republicans, we'll give you the details later. three quarters believe he's definitely born in another country, definitely or probably was. they don't know. the numbers are amazing. >> the birtherism was the rocket
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fuel and put him in orbit. a funny thing happened here. he realized, hey, i'm resonating with the folks in an early poll. maybe, maybe this thing is actually real and maybe i should try to reel back the birtherism some. >> maybe he matters. >> and talk about china. >> you know where you get that idea? if it's true and may well be true, he's worth $7 billion. he may have a sense of a hot hand in life. you've been pretty good at the gamble. >> might be right. i also think with the amount of money he has, there's been a lot of writing about how this is going to be the social media campaign and the digital campaign and the web-based campaign. and both of us would love it to be the web-based campaign but the fact is he's got enough money to buy every tv ad in america. >> may not have to buy them. >> 100% -- practically 100% name recognition. free tv all the time. doesn't need twitter. >> he is where pawlenty will be with the nomination. here's a little fight he had. scrimmages on the trump front or
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birther front. i don't think he's out of the weeds on this one. lashing out at two cnn reporters, anchors, this morning today when they tried to ask about his ongoing investigation he's described in the president's birth certificate out here in hawaii. let's listen. >> we'll stop asking you the questions when you stop saying that president obama can't prove that he's born in the united states. deal? is that a deal? >> fine with me. >> lot quick question before we go. do you know when this investigation in hawaii is going to wrap up? when can you give an answer yes or no -- >> why don't you ask me about opec? here we go again. >> you are not investigating opec. >> you stop talking about this -- >> if you investigate opec, we'll ask you about opec. >> my strength is opec, my strength is jobs in china. why don't you focus on that? here we go again. i can't believe you asked another question on the birther. >> how do you think you get out
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of -- >> let me ask you in. a great question of "anatomy of murder" a great line with the defense attorney catches the prosecutor basically screwing the defendant raising an idea they can't get out of the jury's mind and like saying to the members of the jury don't you think of a blue cow. don't think of a blue cow. your mind immediately conjures up the notion of a blue cow and won't get out of there. what he's done, show you "the new york times." here's the blue cow that he's created in the minds of the republican voters. here's the new "the new york times"/cbs poll. please hold it up there for a while. definitely born in another country, 47%. maybe or don't know, 22. and only 32, slightly less than a third, believe their own president's legitimate. >> right. >> forget party, ideology, jonathan, do you believe people are b.s.'g themselves, have they bought the blather, do they believe -- would they put one
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dollar on the table to bet he wasn't born in america? would they bet to say this? >> i don't know how much is literal. i liken it to the view of a muslim that it's their way of saying he's ill legitimate. >> what does that mean, though, he's ill legitimate? >> they reject him. they don't accept him as one of theirs. >> what's that mean? he's black? >> certainly part of it. not that he wasn't born in america. >> is hawaii part of america? no. i ask you a stupid question. >> of course. i'm trying to explain it, though. >> do you believe that hawaii is part of the united states? >> really? you have giving them that much credit. it's a stand-in for a view that the president is not legitimate. on the trump thing, can i just say real fast, most important of that trump interview is that it was a phone interview. they don't like to do telephone interviews. to allow him to do it on telephone -- >> they'll take donald trump by carrier pigeon.
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>> exactly. we are part of this. >> do you buy the theory only met forical? >> no. i don't. totally. it's sort of like the point of the lance here. i think this began a number of years when american people started to decide that the president of the other party was not legitimate. a lot of people thought that bill clinton, you will remember, bill clinton wasn't elected. a lot of people thought george w. wasn't legitimate. >> who's jane fonda's husband? >> tom hate. >> he accused an opponent of dating teenager. he said i meant it me that forically. >> having talked to tea party people and grass roots and conservatives, they literally do believe he's not born in the united states. >> that's what i think. how do they figure it happened? >> excuse me? >> how did he pull this trick? >> they look at the scraps of information about the ads of
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newspapers about the fact that certificate of live birth. it's what they want to believe because on policy level they also don't think he's legitimate. >> exactly. >> that's an argument to argument. here it is. a seinfeld spokesman told "the new york post" today that, quote, jerry, quote, feels this kind of demagogue ri has no place in public discourse. he's respectfully withdrawn from the event and made a contribution. jerry seinfeld is very popular, pulled out of an event to involved with donald trump's son, a good guy, involved with helping kids with real health problems. st. jude's is a wonderful organization. here's trump lashing back at seinfeld with a letter saying in part we don't care that you broke your commitment even though the children at st. jude are very disappointed, what i do feel badly about is i agreed to do and did your failed show even though i thought it was absolutely terrible. despite its poor ratings, i
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didn't cancel and like you canceled on my son and st. jude. i only wish i did. you should be ashamed of yourself. here, the thing of donald trump is don't get into a match with him -- >> he loves it. >> wearing a really good cup. okay? because this guy is tough. all right? >> it is great. plays well and the new york tabloids. this is what he does, though. you know, he wants this back and forth because it just gives him more opportunities to appear on tv and frankly we're partially to blame because we're -- >> i'm not one of these we're all guilty. he is leading the pack. >> he was on tv 25 times the past 2 months! >> if he wants us to take the views on opec seriously, send a bunch of investigators -- >> right. >> -- to the gulf. >> that's what the anchorwoman on cnn this morning. a reason she said, asked the question about the investigators whether or not they're there or not in honolulu and sent them there you said. nobody thought that you're
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investigating opec. is he an expert on opec? >> i did that innocently. i didn't see it. >> i know you were. obviously you think as you're intelligent as a morning anchor on television. >> chris, can i just say real fast, i think part of this is the enablement in the media and he represents something of a flashing neon stand-in for a candidate to take it to president obama that doesn't exist right now. as a republican watching at home every day -- >> not that they don't exist substantively but they're sending tweets. >> breaking through. >> anybody to complain -- >> donald trump is a mega watt, you know, blast horn -- >> you're a penguins fan, right? >> huge. >> hockey fans don't mind it when a fight breaks snout. >> don't mind it? >> of course. most of them love it. >> right. so isn't this what we're watching? >> he is a brawler. donald trump is a brawler. the word in hockey is a goon. he is a brawler. >> the fight, the game was
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boring. the fight's broken out. better than the game. remember the joke of i went to a hockey -- boxing match and a hockey game broke out. thank you. coming up, when asked which presidential candidate they're most enthusiastically about republicans say no one. why don't they have enthusiasm? they're running for years. pawlenty, romney, nothing. nothing. that's why trump's on top of this pile. you're watching "hardball." [ banker ] mike and brenda found a house that they really wanted. it was in my sister's neighborhood. i told you it was perfect for you guys. literally across the street from her sister. [ banker ] but someone else bought it before they could get their offer together. we really missed a great opportunity -- dodged a bullet there.
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this approval of boehner's approval numbers. up 13 points since taking over the speakership and approval number relatively constant. we'll be right back.
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power, precision, cutting edge.
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welcome back to "hbl." nine months before the iowa caucuses the latest national poll numbers might make you feel sorry for the republicans running for president or even thinking about it. today's "the new york times"/cbs news poll finds a whopping 56% of republicans say they're enthusiastic about -- see it up there, the name, no one. no one. 56%. love that guy. no one. mitt romney leads the actual human beings with just 9%. look at the rest of them, below him in single digits. hardly anyone declared by the way. debates are postponed. and republicans don't even know who half these people are. what's going on with the republicans? they had a good opportunity to run against the president. why aren't they doing it? cynthia tucker is a columnist
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and roy murdoch is a contributor of "the national review." i love the magazine. >> thank you very much. >> read it for years. let me ask you this. just without any precondition, what is going on in the conservative of the two republican parties, the republican party right now? >> i think there's the ultimate limited government. nobody for president. i think it's extraordinary 56% saying that they're not enthused about anyone. six times the number of people who are behind the so-called front-runner mitt romney. you pointed to one of the reasons for this, i think, which is that there really is no race so far. you have i think romney had a big announcement he was putting together an exploratory committee. people exploring, thinking about running, filling out the paperwork. nobody seems to be out there really hammering the obama administration, taking on the president directly and really jumping into the -- >> trump is. >> trump is but even he is sort
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of thinking it. he hasn't declared. obama has announced he's running and re-election campaign. the others thinking about it. and used to be in the old days i remember when ronald reagan announced it wasn't until november of '79, about a year before the election, now the people expect him to run two and three years before the election and no one jumped in four square. >> i don't know if i buy that because i think people know who romney is. pawlenty in the neighborhood a long time. everybody knows for better or worse, usually worse, newt gingrich. palin is everywhere. i don't see numbers except tv shows that people like the ones -- look at this number here. they like the people maybe making your point that huckabee, hallen and gingrich with the big jobs on fox have the higher favorability because they're working at it. >> absolutely. they're the people with name recognition. they're the people who
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conservative -- a core constituency of conservative voters listens to those people all the time, they know who they are. deroy is right saying a reason these folks have engendered so little enthusiasm is because they're not really running. people aren't paying attention yet but the simple of the matter is even among the gop establishment, these folks haven't engendered a lot of enthusiasm. either people who know who they are aren't enthusiastic. >> deroy, not to be too sarcastic. one is show time for mitt romney. when does he go from caterpillar to butterfly? is there a secret exciting mitt romney he's been holding back? tell me about that guy. who is this guy? >> i think trajectory is more from larva to moth. i think that, look -- >> good point. >> i think there are a lot of people not satisfied with mitt romney. we have seen him before. he certainly did -- i guess came
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in second or third place last time ago but mitt romney has two big problems. one is on almost any issue two or three or four sides. this man has more flip flops than a cook at ihop. the other problem is that romney care massachusetts described by "the wall street journal" dress rehearsal for obama care and one of the biggest campaign issues next year is obama care and romney can't run away from it. obama will say, gee, thanks so much for the model for obama care and he'll shrink under the floor. >> i think politics is looking for the sins and knowing he has imperfections. most politicians had a background, a back story saying i've never been this perfect and never will be. romney, the hair doesn't move. the suits are right out of a catalog. jc penny, everything is perfect. >> look at that guy. >> brooks brothers. never -- not that you should, never had a hangover. never did anything really wrong.
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>> mitt romney's problem is -- >> manifest that perfection. >> very smart, very accomplished guy and comes across to voters as inauthentic. and what -- >> max hedroom. >> what deroy is talking about aek sent waits that for voters. problem for republicans is they're all sitting there hoping for a new ronald reagan. there is no ronald reagan. there's some serious candidates in the field like tim pawlenty but he lacks charisma. the most charismatic, the person with the most character who may be running is donald trump. >> in all fairness to reagan, got beat up for being too far right. career challenges, movie career faded. a fight, he had a bad marriage, terrible first marriage, bad person. i don't think it worked out too well for him. not judging anybody. it isn't always -- wasn't so easy for ronald reagan and other guys look like they coasted to
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where they are. take a look at the pew poll, it shows trump trumping the rest of the field. you have heard the most about which candidate? trump at 26%. everyone else in singles. again, deroy, do you put him on the cover? >> he is the kind of guy who gets cameras out. he is telegenic and very -- >> i think -- >> what was that? >> i think you got an interview with him right there. that was a very, very good move. i would say that about his move but i have to hold back on him. here he is as a serious candidate. this is a great question. 38% of tea partiers say he is. 37% of republicans say he is for real. 27% of independents say he's real. look at this, 8%, that's attitude. i don't think democrats have anymore idea if he's running.
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they don't want him to run and afraid of him, may look down on him. what's the story? why don't democrats think he's going to run? >> well, actually -- >> i think he is going to run. >> i think they would be delighted if donald rump ran. it's hard to take him seriously. he sucks up the oxygen for more serious candidates. >> do you think obama would like to stand on a stage seven or eight from him? he'd like to risk trash talk? he has no super ego. he has an ego. doesn't sit and worry about it. maybe that's why he has $7 billion. maybe somebody won't like me. he doesn't care! >> that's the point. he says thing that is are ridiculous, over the top, completely irrational. he says -- >> why's he a billionaire? why is he a billionaire? success is a measure of intelligence in this country. >> he has ego and a whole lot of id. >> i know. >> serious free marketeers
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raised questions. imminent domain to get one of the properties basically out of her house to expand a parking lot for leimousine. the club for growth is -- i think that's something -- >> i rand. are you an objectivist? >> no. >> okay. great. i think that's a nice thing to be for you. thank you. see how dismissive i am? just kidding. please come back on. thank you. see, you're a pulitzer prize winner. i don't have to lay it on you as hard. mike huckabee fights back after glenn beck calls him a bad word. glenn beck, strange on the way out the door here. stranger, that's not hard to do. i don't like what he says. you're watching "hardball." pass [ male announcer ] when chips ahoy! real chocolate chips swirl together
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back to "hardball." first up, fire on the right. glenn beck used perhaps the dirtiest word among conservatives to describe fox news colleague mike huckabee. that's right. he called him a progressive. >> i think mike huckabee is a guy who's had michelle obama on and said, you know what? your fat kid programs, they are great. they are great. he is a progressive. he -- look at his record. he's a progressive. >> huckabee hit back on his website today. quote, glenn beck taken to the radio show to attack me as a progressive which he's said is the same as cancer or nazi. i'm no fan of her husband's policies but i have appreciated the first lady's policies that beck misrepresented either out
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of ignorance or out of deliberate attempt to distort them to create yet another boogie man hiding in the closet that only he can see. beck as usual, as always, doesn't know what he's talking about. michelle bachmann makes the cut. rush limbaugh was picked to pen the tribute to her. because she's smart, talented and accomplished and a natural leader, not to mention attractive, the left brands her as a flame-throwing lightweight. they underestimate her at their own risk. rush limbaugh, michelle bachmann, together in paradise. now for the big number, back in november sarah palin with shared coverage of 51%. where is it this month? according to "new york times," 11%. about a fifth down from what it was before, a fifth of what it was before. explains the latest dip in the birtherism. trying to win the way back. drops from 51% to 11% in media
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coverage down to a fifth of where she was. she's trumped in the snow. tonight's big number. up next, president obama and house budget chairman paul ryan both out on the road right now selling competing visions for how to rein in the debt. ryan wants to abolish medicare. the president wants to keep them coming. plus, "hardball" only on msnbc.
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i'm kayla tausche. stocks closed on session highs. the dow added 52 points, s&p 500 gained 7 and the nasdaq grew 17. an avalanche of earnings to end
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the week. apple helping to extend a tech rally on the results of last night. travelers posted a 30% jump in profits on gains in investment income and chemical maker dupont reporting big profits and double digit sales growth. schlumberg with a rosy outlook. drug giant pfizer took a hit after four patients died in clinical trials of an arthritis drug. verizon with solid profits but didn't add as many users as expected and mcdonald's raising prices. ge, part partner in universal, fell. that's it from cnbc. first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball." and then what we have said is let's take another trillion
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of that, that we raise through a reforms in the tax system that allows people like me and, frankly, you, mark, for paying a little more in taxes. >> i'm cool with that. >> i know you're okay with that. >> welcome back. that's of course president obama in that case with facebook founder mark zuckerberg on wednesday yesterday. the president used a facebook forum there to keep pounding on paul ryan's budget plan. let's listen to the president. >> the republican budget that was put forward i would say is fairly radical. i wouldn't call it particularly courageous. i do think mr. ryan is sincere. i think he's a patriot. i think he wants to solve a real problem which is our long-term deficit but i think that what he and the other republicans in the
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house of representatives also want to do is change our social compact in a pretty fundamental way. >> have republicans given president obama a big gift for the next campaign? with 235 republicans having voted in the house for the ryan plan with the budget cuts and especially medicare, can the president make the plan the name for people's pain? richard wolf is a political analyst and major garnett covers congress. there's a piece about the budget battle. let me start with major on this question. it seems to me there's an open question here. i want to see how you analyze it. is the issue of medicare where people over 65 get health care paid for by the program they'll been paying in to since the time they started working, if that's fazed out, demolished, replaced by a subsidy plan, is that a positive or negative for the republican party including ryan and all the house members? >> well, the democrats in the
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white house clearly believe it's a negative and republicans are afraid it could be a negative. i wrote at nationaljournal.com last week of how much so much of this, chris, reminds me of what we went through in 1995. back then republicans wanted to cut medicare or reduce the rate of growth $270 million over 7 years. president clinton said you want to cut taxes by $245 billion. i won't let you do both at the same time. we have the same argument now. a democratic president saying i won't let you change the rate of growth fundamentally turning it from fee for service into a premium support or voucher program and also reduce tax rates for the wealthy. paul ryan would say i'm not doing a net tax decrease. my revenue package is neutral. i cut some taxes and raise others on the other side but in the main we have the same argument of before. we remember what happened in 1995. bill clinton won that argument on the political points. republicans did achieve narrow policy gains but on politics
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bill clinton won. democrats won. republicans lost. >> richard wolf, it seems to me it reminds us all of various elections. one vote does not usually kill a career. >> right. >> it did back in '93 but generally only social security or perhaps medicare is a career ender. i think of the senators going down in '86. a slew of republican senators went down when regan pulled the rug out from under them at the white house, cutting the social security and payroll, is this an issue? if you go to a 50-50 district or 45-45 district, even, and the incumbent voted to cut medicare, which all the republicans have done, demolish for people below the age of 55 and we'll have to fight for some kind of subsidy, is it a killer? >> sure, it's a killer. this is a dine mo for motorvehicles in the white house
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i talk to. how much to solve the longer term problems and go for the kill here on the politics? because the conventional wisdom says democrats never win an election saying we want to raise taxes or cut spending but the democratic position on taxes for those earning more than $250,000 and on protecting medicare, it's overwhelmingly popular, even among republican voters as majority support for raising taxes on the super wealthy so, you know, that's why you're republicans saying this is not about reforming medicare but saving medicare. they're trying to use the language of democrats. they're in deep peril. they know it. >> if this is an objective election of objective facts, major, people over 65 vote on self interest, this could be bad for the republicans, right? >> right. let's talk about a couple of objective facts, chris. the data and if paul ryan were here, he would say his plan, budget resolution doesn't affect those in medicare or ten years
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and would affect those getting protection from the doughnut hole in the immediate future. democrats talk about that. but let's talk about objective facts. 1995 again. what republicans asked for from bill clinton then was total $382 billion in cuts of medicare and medicaid over 7 years to $64 billion a year if you analyze it and average it out. >> right. >> president obama in the framework, president obama in the framework said he's in favor over 12 years of cutting medicare and medicaid by $780 billion. that's $65 billion a year. so republicans in '95 had $64 billion. that was radical, draconian. president obama says $65 billion over 12 years. is that draconian? is that -- >> yeah. i don't know -- i don't know the numbers are -- i don't know those are bumper stickers as much as the republicans are killing medicare. here's a poll of yesterday. let's take a look at it.
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nobody wants to cut medicare or medicaid. i find it fascinating. hold that first number up there. if you are the president of the united states and you are a democrat, you are protecting democrats here. look. 5% say no medicaid deal on the deficit. none at all, though. you go to the republican side, they don't want it. and then you got -- to me, richard wolffe, i don't see the numbers for any kind of a democratic cuts in these programs. people love medicare. >> right. >> only one of the tea party people want it cut is medicaid because it's for poor people, minorities. that's how they see it, at least. >> you don't have to be a high-paid strategist to figure out where a politician running for election needs to be on this issue and that does raise sort of questions about how serious people are when they say they want to cut spending. but the bigger issue, the sort of meta issue here is are the voters ready for another big change to the system? after two wars, after an
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economic collapse, after health care, are they ready for this debate about the social safety net and medicaid? paul ryan is banking they are. that's why they voted for divided government. a big plan like this opens you up to a big threat. >> sounds radical. here's paul ryan boo'd in a town hall in his district this week. watch in action what you're suggesting. let's see if they're reacting to him. >> the top 1% took home about 10% of the total annual income yet today we're fighting to not let the tax breaks for the wealthy expeer and we're fighting to not raise the social security gap to $87,000. i think we're wrong. i think we're wrong. yeah. so a couple of things. [ applause ] >> for spending but if it's a matter of there's nothing wrong with taxing the top because it does not trickle down. >> we do tax the top. >> oh!
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>> major garrett, looks like it's a hard sell, those -- you know, looking out for the rich. it is self interest. most people don't make $250,000 a year, on medicaid. look at the voter, if i'm on medicare and not making $250,000 a year, i don't like this republican plan. >> sounded to me like the revenge of the town hall, chris. >> well, it is. they're paying attention to numbers now. >> exactly. worked well for republicans in 2010. may not work as well in 2012 in this election cycle. the operative fact is republicans are betting and a tremendous amount on the belief that the voters are ready for something to pick up richard's point bigger than you expect. politics won't work. people look at the issue of the debt, $14.3 trillion. expect it to be raised, the debt ceiling. republicans aren't betting the farm but they're betting more than half the farm that this approach to entrenched entitlements can work for them because it's courageous and the president said he didn't think
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paul ryan was being kauai ray jous. what's the opposite? cowardly. that put the republicans on the defensive fearing some voters think it's more courageous than he like it to think it is. >> remember the argument, don't get so far ahead of the parade you can't hear the music. you have to wonder whether the people like paul ryan so far ahead of people they can't hear the people talking. thank you for coming on tonight to talk about this. up next, why are republicans around the country at least some of them up in maine especially talking about rolling back child labor laws? is this part of this whole anti-labor push and going to the point to make kids work hours through the night? is there an attempt to get cheap labor to replace adult labor? we'll find out. what's going on with this fight against labor. this is "hardball."
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somewhere in america, a city comes to life. it moves effortlessly, breathes easily. it flows with clean water. it makes its skyline greener and its population healthier. all to become the kind of city people want to live and work in. somewhere in america, we've already answered some of the nation's toughest questions. and the over sixty thousand people of siemens are ready to do it again. siemens. answers. former illinois governor rod blagojevich made a first appearance in the second corruption trial today.
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the judge ordered blagojevich to show up for juror questioning. the trial got under way yesterday. prosecutors simplified the case this time around after jurors last year deadlocked on all but one count complaining then, the jurors, the evidence was too difficult to follow. we'll be right back.
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welcome back. republicans have opened up as i said a new front in the labor battle. they're going after child labor laws. those things we don't pay much attention to because think eve always been there. state lawmakers in state of maine pushing to lower the minimum wage for those under age
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20 for the first 180 days of a year and maximum hours of a minor over 16 can work on a school day. they want to take it from 20 to 24 a week and take it from 10:00 at night to 11:00 at night on a school night. opponents launched an ad against the maine governor. here it is. >> governor paul hepage wants to roll back child labor laws. he supports legislation to have kids work longer hours, later at night and for less than minimum wage. those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. tell governor hepage, protect our children. don't roll back child labor laws. >> so is this the start of a roll back of child labor protections as the ad says?
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christine owens, o s and steve morris. serve let me ask you, christine. thanks for coming on. here'schristine, thanks for coming on, chris. here's the question, is it that bad? is this oliver twist? are they trying to get the kids to work 40, 50 hours a week? >> it's part of a pattern of rolling back labor protections across the country, there's been attacks on minimum wage, many attacks on collective bargaining, been attacks on overtime and now there's attacks on child labor. maine has one of the oldest child labor laws in the nation and something to be proud of. >> talk about the changes that are under way. >> what the governor is proposing is legislation or supporting legislation that would increase the number of hours that employers could make children work, children over 16 work, in a week. have kids work later at night. >> why do you want to do that? why do you think business wants to do that? >> they can squeeze more out of their workers.
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the companion is to lower the wage at which children will be forced to work. so working later at night -- >> who's forcing anybody to work? >> the employer usually controls scheduling -- >> they can't force kids to work -- >> sure, they can, employers can fire you if you don't work the hours they want you to work. >> the most important job i had in my life, or one of them, was the first job i had. i think it's a great thing if we can get more teenagers in the labor force. right now, we have about a 40% black teenage unemployment rate in this country. what we did when we raised the minimum wage, which i think was a big mistake when we raised the minimum wage during this recession, is we've priced young people out of the -- >> that's certainly not true. >> it is -- >> let's slow it down. the federal minimum wage, when i was a kid, wherever i worked out, restaurants, the shore and things like that, federal minimum wage had nothing to do with most jobs. what does the federal minimum wage of $7.50 actually cover? does it cover busboys and
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waitresses -- >> it does. >> the federal wage applies to all work in this country? >> most -- >> that's what i totally object to. it's a no-brainer. we should have a starter wage -- >> if you want to have a lower wage for people at a certain age, what do you make it only 180 years a -- >> the idea is -- >> what's the game being played, it's only for people who work 180 days a year. what's that about? >> so they're not full-time workers. >> oh, so what's the hedge here? >> they can be full-time for 180 days. >> you're talking about high school kids and things like that. >> you're talking about anybody younger than 20 years old. that's 19 and 20 years old. >> why the 180 -- >> it's for the first 180 days. >> i have no idea. it's not a summer job, it's a six-month job and if somebody leaves after six months and started a new job, it could apply for the -- >> it's not a summer job. >> when a person starts a new job, a 17-year-old, it's a trainer wage --
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>> are you for minimum wages or against them? >> totally against them. >> as principle? any minimum wage? >> i think we should -- >> are you against child labor l laws? >> look -- >> i'm asking you, is it wrong to limit the number of hours a high school kid who's supposed to be studying in school -- >> no, i don't have a problem with that. >> that's what we're talking about. >> what i'm talking about, what i really applaud is having it be a good thing in this country if we had more 16, 17, and 18-year-olds and -- >> slow down a little bit. i used to talk like you. >> you still do. >> no, i slowed down. why do you think business wanted to increase the number of hours that kids can work in high school when school knights, first of all, until 11:00 at night rather than 10:00, and why did they increase it. isn't 20 hours enough to work? >> it is enough. all the research shows that 20 hours a week is the cutoff point at which high school drop-off
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rates increase -- >> you can't study after that? >> grades go down after a 20-hour limit. >> what about the 11:00 at night rule? >> i think that's too late for kids. >> so you're for 10:00 at night and -- >> 20 hours a week. >> let me say one thing. you are for some government role here? >> of course, i don't want child labor laws. >> you said a minute ago -- >> i said i didn't like the minimum wage. the evidence is very clear, people who work when they're teenagers, have a job, they do much better in life in terms of their careers -- >> so they can do that under the current laws. >> are you against a lower minimum wage for just summer seashore kind of jobs that wouldn't exist otherwise? >> i'm against a lower minimum wage, because i think it displaces older workers. >> even for summer jobs? >> even for summer jobs. >> thank you. rather have a couple kids working rather than one. >> mine are working and nobody would pay my kids. $7.50 an hour. >> you're getting very aggressive. i'll have a special cage for you next time. when we return, let me
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let me if i were tonight with reality. the republican party has become the birther party. that's right. this is not an alternative reality, it's the humdrum, get up in the morning, brush your teeth, take a shower, go to work reality of today's heirs to the party of abraham lincoln, teddy
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roosevelt, dwight eisenhower, and yes, ronald reagan. in their world, the man in the white house, the elected president of the united states is a usurper, an imposter, an alien from another land who has hijacked air force one and owes loyalty to god knows who. 47% they know he was born in another country. another 20% say they don't know what country he was born in. grand total, 69%, seven in ten republicans today, like the simple most basic confidence that the president of the united states is a valid, legitimate, true holder of that office. they believe the hospital lied, the state of hawaii lied, his parents lied, h he lied, the local newspapers lied, and everyone who grewed up with him or said he did lied. they believe every document is a forgery, and he, in saying who he is, is an exciistential frau. all this, they say, is possible in this 21st century country, where people know just about everything about each other. we just don't know who this g

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