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tv   The Dylan Ratigan Show  MSNBC  May 17, 2012 4:00pm-5:00pm EDT

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america and today at the white house. 41 u.s. companies received the presidential e award for increasing u.s. exports and bringing that money and jobs here to the united states. of course, we're in southern california, so we are but one ocean away from a china. rather large ocean. of course, 3 million american jobs have been lost to that nation during the past decade, 2 million of them in manufacturing alone. and all those items that we import from china and buy into our country support as many as 20 million jobs in china. good for chinese government political security unless they have a big unemployment problem, my goodness. better that we have that. but it seems china's tide may be turning. new research shows american companies are making big plans to bring manufacturing jobs back home. the new term reshoring. and according to the hackett group which follows these trends, they're saying u.s. companies are looking to
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reshoring 20% of their manufacturing during the next 40 years. but the repatriation of jobs and the money that comes with it are not happening because of u.s. policies, in fact, it's happening despite them. it's happening because of chinese policies. you can't lobby their government like you can ours. china looking at rising land prices, growing transportation costs to ship goods from china to the united states, incrementally stronger currency, although not nearly what it ought to be, and most importantly, increasing chinese wages. we start with the leader of the hackett group, and the leader of the alliance for american manufacturing. david, tell us what stands out about your research. what do you know that we don't? >> what stands out about our research is we look at totally cost, looking at the cost to produce in china and bringing goods to customers in the u.s. what we found was from 2005 to what we project to be next year
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is costs are going to be had. the cost benefit china had in terms of producing in china and shipping to the u.s. is going to be cut in half next year, and that's driven by higher labor cost and higher transportation cost. there is a magic barrier of about 15%. when the company gets below 15%, it becomes attractive for u.s. manufacturers to bring some of that production back to the u.s. which is great news for america and great news for american workers. >> when you look at chinese's inability to keep prices low as the catalyst, meantime, the american government is very good at maintaining tax codes that benefit offshoring, very good at maintaining things like the rig currency relationship. how is it that the chinese government is actually, in some ways, more effective at helping bring jobs back to america than our own? >> well, it's a good question to ask, dylan, and it's pretty
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simple. it's because china wants these jobs. they need to employ tens of millions, hundreds of millions of workers. we have said for decades, let them go. let's outsource, let's do something else. i think belatedly our resources have been kept here. but we've been outsourcing, we don't hold china responsible for its currency manipulating, and if we outsourced 30%, we would bring 7% of those jobs back. it's a trickle, it's not a trend, and i found this report to be fascinating, but one of the elements that concerned me is there is still an indication that a lot of manufacturers are looking to offshore, and as you know, dylan, the trade deficit reflects that. record $295 billion with china
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last year and it's growing. it's not headed the direction that it should be. >> the two things that really put a bee in my bonnet, david, are this. if you want to import to the united states from china, the tariff is 2.5%. if you want to export from the united states to china, taxes are 25%, ten times what we tax them. their currency is pegged, although slowly -- very slowly -- appreciating. did you do any research, or is it even measurable what the acceleration in reshoring would be were we to rebalance the tax code on the 25%/2% problem, and for that matter, implications of an increasing fair valuation for the chinese currency. is that even researchable? >> it's certainly researchable. we didn't look at it as part of this study. we looked at the operational advantage of working in china versus having that manufacturing
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in the u.s. to the point about the number of jobs that have gone off to china over the past 10, 20 years, what we're saying is that trend has peaked and if not reversing, it's at least stopping, and we're starting to see a much more complicated exchange in manufacturing activity between the u.s. and china. >> the other thing that strikes me, scott, is as you come to the realization that it is not us versus china as much as -- as convenient as that narrative is, that it is us and china. if america declinedeclines, chi declines. if china declines, america declines. so wanting to take from them or allowing them to take with us, is just a self -- america's need for prosperity and a sense of
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fairness and perhaps the basic economics that david's research so showing being the catalyst to force us to move away from finger pointing to some form of collective collaboration. >> well, i think that makes a lot of sense, and there is a mutual interest in doing this, dylan. the $295 billion trade deficit hurts the united states because it means there's jobs going offshore and we do have to finance that in some way, as you know. for china, it means there is a lot of hot money laying around, and there is bubbles that can pop up in real estate, and china's leaders, i think, over the long term want to increase their domestic demand. they need to increase the purchasing power of their consumers in order to do that. that means they need to raise the value of the currency. it's obviously not an e equilibrium rate right now, and though i do agree the united
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states is more cost competitive today than we were five or six years ago, i think we do have a long way to go. i think the voters already understand this. they realize and they want action on china, they want us to insist that china play by the rules, they want our political leaders to support american manufacturing. we see the president highlight this in the state of the union address. he welcomes people to the white house. we need to see more tough policies to back that up. you see mitt romney trying to outflank the president on china and say, i'll declare them as a currency manipulator. i'll cut off procurement from china as long as their market is not open so that we can prevent fiascos like the bay bridge from happening again. but it's time that washington caught up with where the rest of the country is on this. >> david, do you agree with what you just heard? >> well, i think from our perspective, and the perspective of most manufacturers that we work with, what they want is stability so they can plan what
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tax costs they're going to have so they can understand reasonable ways to forecast what currencies are going to look like, so they want a time horizon they can plan against. it's very difficult with policies that are in flux. from our standpoint, we would prefer to create a level playing field and something you can forecast and plan against. >> i suspect whether you're a fortune 500 ceo looking to plan a manufacturing project or an unemployed debt-laden student just graduating college, everybody would like to see a leveling of this playing field in this country which is why, honestly, i'm so optimistic we are going to end up there even if new york and washington figure out that's what's happening last. david, thank you very much. scott, always nice to see you. two senators looking to send a message to facebook's co-founder and anybody looking to discover something and get rich doing it,
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and then looking to dodge the taxes from all the money they made in america. plus, the supreme court still debagt the president's health care law. the atlantic's phillip howard with the real fix looking at deeper service which is the dark underbelly of the cost of our health care system. and some news to cheer to. coffee lovers live longer. c'mon dad! i'm here to unleash my inner cowboy. instead i got heartburn. [ horse neighs ] hold up partner. prilosec isn't for fast relief. try alka-seltzer. it kills heartburn fast. yeehaw! [ engine turns over ] [ male announcer ] we began with the rx. [ tires squeal ] then we turned the page, creating the rx hybrid. ♪
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-- well, back now for a race of cash for the president of the united states, the high value position and as such they conduct an auction to purchase that office. mitt romney's campaign releasing his fundraiser numbers for power. $40 million in the month. pretty good. that in line with the obama auction who announced its april haul of 43.6 million. pretty much the same bid there. they're disenvaluing the report that they're trying to spend more. here's what libertarian presidential candidate gary johnson thinks about this latest round of two-party political power selling.
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well, how is that for an introduction to the mega panel? karen, susan and jimmy are here. jimmy, the conversation money and politics, obviously. you like that ad, huh, jimmy? >> i love that ad, although i like watermelon more than blowing it up. i know what i'm doing this weekend. i have to try that. >> wow. so you got $80 million, two guys running for president. what are they buying? >> not much. because think about it, barack obama raised almost three quarters of a billion dollars, and he's not able to get a whole hell of a lot done this past year. >> sorry to interrupt you, but maybe that's what they're buying. maybe you give these guys money
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to make sure they don't do anything because the policies are working for the people who are bidding. is that unfair? >> no, i don't think that's unfair. something very interesting just happened. the general counsel of the koch brothers companies just came on martin bashir's show and said, i have no idea what we are giving politically. i'm sorry, but that, in and of itself, cannot be true. that must be infactual. because if you're the general counsel of one of the largest companies in the united states and you're out there -- and we know what they're giving but he doesn't know, that's just the incredulity of it. if you're going to buy your way in, just be public about it. that's sick, don't you think? >> i totally do. when you look at the rickets thing and the transparency of that one window, karen and susan, there is certainly a case
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to be made for, if we're going to auction off the presidency, at least for the people buying it to reveal themselves so that those of us who don't have the money to buy a president, to know who the bidders are. >> absolutely. unfortunately, the response you hear from republicans, there is a measure that's in the congress that would try to do just this, and what carl rove and those guys will say is, we're afraid we'll be targeted by the scary democrats. well, you know what, if you aren't willing to put your name on the fact that you're supporting these things, then you probably shouldn't be doing them in the first place. and we all -- with our economic power, we can make decisions. if i don't want to do my business at ameritrade anymore because rickets is talking about doing this ad against president obama, i have a right to know this is the kind of thing he's funding. >> but there's a flip side to that, some elected officials don't want people to know where money is being spent, either, because they're perfectly happy
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to have super pacs do things on their behalf, and they can claim, i don't know where it's coming from and i'm not associated with it. >> obviously, it's a very powerful posture if you can remain anonymous, you're a billionaire, you can orchestrate immediate campaign, launch it, and really with any narrative you want, and you can do it as a single individual. write a check for a million, 10 million, 20 million bucks. very popular posture for anybody in that situation. how much power do you lose, susan, if you are forced to disclose yourself in that process? how depowering is the transparency alone? forget getting money out. just the pure transparency of knowing the individual, the agenda, the money and their plan as opposed to not knowing. how helpful is that? >> some will be happy showing and others won't be. the most interesting thing is -- >> that's not my question. my question is, if i'm a billionaire, how much power do i lose if i'm forced to do it in public as opposed to being able
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to do it in private? >> i guess it depends what kind of billionaire you are. if you have a mark bloomberg record and he's not afraid of showing where money is going versus maybe another type of person who is a big oil and gas guy who doesn't want to show that they're spending that kind of money. >> it depends on the billiona e billionaire. go ahead, karen. >> look what was happening over the last several weeks with alec with what's come forward about what they've done with the stand your ground laws and voter i.d. laws. people found out that coca-cola and pepsico, who were able to sell their products in the area they were targeting, they said, i'm not going to buy coca-cola. so you had corporations who had to end their membership. you lose a lot of power, potentially, if your customers don't like it. >> transparency doesn't require constitutional amendment, doesn't require a massive grassroots campaign.
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go ahead, jimmy. >> to that point on the transparency issue, when the justice wrote, one of the things he talked about in that landmark decision was the need for more transparency, that the court would welcome transparency. so maybe you and i, and everybody else involved in this entire arena, should say instead of getting the money out, let's just expose it and let it be all out there. >> we need that sound clip of cuba gooding from jerry maguire. show america the money. we want to see it. speaking of showing the money, if facebook had a dislike button, this next headline would probably get an awful lot of clips. the charge? facebook co-founder renounced his u.s. citizen ship to avoid paying $67 million in taxes. curious. and this morning, senator chuck schumer warned saveraign he's
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not the kind of friend that america wants to culminate. >> he wants to defriend the united states of america just to avoid paying taxes, and we're not letting him get away with it. >> they've sbrisd tintroduced t ex-patriot act for people who want to disclaim the u.s. just to avoid paying taxes on american soil. this afternoon saverin fought back saying he didn't argue it and he will continue to pay anything he owes. maybe he just didn't like the weather, and i can see, jimmy, the way the government runs and the way they spend money, the
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inclination to not want to pay taxes is obviously high from anybody who pays taxes at any level in any country, ever, in the history of the world. at the same time, pretty disgusting concept to exploit american resources, american talent, american educational foundations, american infrastructure, american taxpayers supplied apparatus, culture, judicial system, corporate system and then get stinking rich selling other people's vacation pictures and then not want to pay taxes. it kind of goes to the sort of -- i just -- i feel like facebook as a culture, the zuckerberg culture is like a weasely group of people. >> there is something very interesting here. i think he went to harvard, right, with zuckerberg, right, and they developed this in their dorm room. i would be curious to know if saverin actually got pell grants or stafford loans when he went to harvard when he was master
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minding this facebook. because if he did, i subsidized that and now he doesn't want to pay taxes on it. if you don't want to pay taxes, get out. i don't care. >> who wants to pay taxes? >> i do because i live in a good country. >> part of what is particularly awful about this case is his family came here and asked for asylum. like we gave them asylum when he was young, and now he's saying, i'm out of here if i have to pay taxes. and to all the things that dylan just mentioned, it's not just all of that in terms of time and talent and all of that, they are making money off of data about us, each and every one of us. every keystroke when we're on facebook, they are making money and he doesn't want to pay taxes on that. >> you get the last word on this one, susan. >> what's important is now we're talking about a specific defriend act instead of talking about the real problems with the tax code. what happens is our
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representatives find something very headline-worthy that frankly doesn't get anywhere close to the job done but now we're distracted and we're worried about one person and writing legislation to punish one person, whereas you punish people who evade their taxes, we shouldn't be writing legislation to punish people. >> that sort of goes to the same thing with jamie dimon's $2 billion loss. it's not about jamie dimon and $2 billion, it's about a financial code that you get all sorts of weasely behavior around. we just like to talk about incidents, for some reason, but we don't like to talk about cultures. the same thing about trayvon martin. we don't want to talk about the culture of abuse over one back man, we want to talk about that. >> you can talk about greed but
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you want to make people feel bad about being greedy. america's issues are entirely fixable. in fact, many of the best practices already exist, we just haven't deployed them yet. our specialist joins us with a plan to scale, deploy and ultimately fix one of our toughest problems: health care.
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as politicians and insurance companies wait anxiously on the supreme court to vote on president obama's health care law, the other battles haven't even been fought. whatever the outcome in court, he says it will not help the
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problems of reduction spending, inefficiency and a failure to identify those who are the thickest, the 5-- the sickest, and help them become healthy. all of this boiled down to a fee by service model, something we feature prominently in the fourth chapter of greedy bastards as the core of our health care problems and something we talk a lot about when we talk health care on this show. but phil has two alternatives of how we can actually fix this. he writes it for the latest piece on "america the fixable." a non-profit offering americans and citizens around the world, for that matter, a new way to look at how we relate to law and government in policy making. bill, nice to see you. >> nice to be here, dylan. >> let's accept, at least, for the purposes of this conversation that we agree fee
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for service is a meaningful, underlying distorted component. what are your propositions to repair some of this? >> well, we're going to have to rebuild the system because all the incentives are misaligned, as you said. we can't have a system where doctors and hospitals make more every time they do another medical service, whether or not it's needed, and we can't have a system where patients don't have any incentive to keep themselves healthy or to be prudent in their use of health care services. we need people to actually care about doing what makes sense, not just randomly using the system. >> so how do you reconcile that? bill maue has a great piece where he talks about the health care system definitely don't want you to be healthy, and they don't want you to be dead. they want you just somewhere halfway in the middle, now i've got the diabetes money coming in, now i've got the recurrent
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treatment money coming in, and if we go with your crazy plan or my crazy plan where people are incentivized to be healthy, nobody makes any money, phillip. >> they make money but they don't make money the same way. it's crazy for hospitals to hire more surgeons to deal with the worst consequences of diabetes when it would be a lot more efficient, a lot more healthy to hire social workers to get people walking during the day so they don't have these kinds of dooir circumstances. what i recommend is from the first instance, because we're using public dollars with it, is not to change the whole health care system for everybody in america, but start by changing it for the people who are on public health care and create a system that's more like the va system where you have an integrated provider where someone takes care -- where one hospital takes care of a person
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for everything they need instead of getting paid more each time there is a new aspirin prescribed. >> karen? >> here's a question. we talk a lot about just the struggle of kids getting jobs, coming out of college because of debt. and if you go to medical school, you're talking about how we need more doctors, and yet at the same time there is a disincentive in many ways for people to go into those professions because it's so expensive. so how do we change that part of the system and get more people into what you're talking about? >> first you need a different kind of person, so one of the essays in our series says we need to allow expert nurses to do much more primary care. it's much more inexpensive to train an expert nurse than it is to go through ten years of medical training. but all but 16 states prohibit nurses from providing that kind of medical carely.
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do you know as well as i do the ama goes out of its way to restrict what you're talking about where you allow pas and registered nurses to provide care because it goes to the income stream of the doctors. >> there are lots of vested interests here, but what those ve vest, cost twice as much as any other system, and it's making the entire economy competitive. >> susan. >> a lot of things we hear about is the defensive medicine and how that adds billions and billions of dollars to our health care costs, and i believe you recommended a health care court. can you talk a little bit more about that? >> shumpure. our country hz a lot of special courts for taxes and patents,
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that sort of thing. a study has shown overwhelmingly that doctors go through the day with a little lawyer on their shoulder whispering in their ear, this could be a lawsuit, so watch out what you say or maybe you should order another test. it's really hard to measure, but most estimates range between about 50 billion and $200 billion a year. that's a huge amount of money for unnecessary tests. and what a special health court would do would make justice reliable for whoever is right. so the patient who is injured by a matter of months for a day with half the money going to lawyers. >> jimmy? >> this whole theory of medical records and putting everything on line, and the senate tried to pass something, and i think they put something like that in the
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affordable health care act. it just seems to me if we can sit around on computers all day but i walk into my doctor's office and everything is sitting in a big, huge folder -- my folder is this thick -- couldn't that be put on line and wouldn't it cost and save money at the same time? >> we clearly need a system where people can. you walk into the doctor's office and you swipe your card and the doctor sees everything that's been done to you. one of the problems with modern medical records, as you suggested, is that they're so thick that the doctor actually can't get to the most.
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you have too much information or you have no information. we clearly need a system where the records are accessible to everyone. >> the interesting thing we'll save this for another. perhaps the greatest single cost benefit to our health care system that exists, i imagine, and the series of america is fixable and goes into much more detail than what i was speaking about. thanks to the mega panel for the day. we'll see you guys in a couple of days. we'll go to a mental break here. the more you drink, the longer you live. it turns out coffee
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sometimes nobody has any control over it. >> that clip from "least among saints" premiers this weekend at the gi festival in washington, d.c. it's inspired by real events and it chronicles a war veteran suffering from ptsd, a struggle that returning heroes can all but relate to. >> i related to it a lot. at the end of the story, i was like, they figured it out in two hours. why am i still struggling? it does give one hope. it left me with a good feeling. >> martin parpasian made his writing, directing and acting debut in the movie. starring alongside actress laura san giacomo. hi, lawyer urlaura.
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>> hi, dylan. >> how does it feel to be affected by those sound bites? >> i just felt very compelled to tell his story, so over the last couple of years, we worked very hard to produce this film, and it's been terrific. we've been getting a really beautiful response from veterans and from anybody and everybody who has been experiencing this work. >> lawy >> lawyerura, a lot of folks mat know this, but you do a lot of work with children, specifically with charter schools in and around california. give me a sense for what it meant to you to portray publicly a role that in some ways you play privately in your own way well beyond the veteran community or the narrative of this film. >> well, i think that when i was growing up, it was really
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importa important, the message that i got from growing up from what i watched happen in society was to be of service. i really admire marty for one of the ways we can be of service to our country is to tell stories. and these men and women that have served, they deserve to have a mirror up there, an emotional mirror, so that people can understand a little better what they have been through. and it was very lovely for me to be able to, in some way, portray this concern for children that i have been involved with and continue to be involved with with some of my work through education here in los angeles. >> i want to play another sound bite from another veteran. >> i think a lot of people don't even know what ptsd is. you guys are lucky to be with other veterans going through similar things.
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i'm not helped yet. >> at this time, obviously, we only have two choices with any issue in our country, either to elevate awareness so people better understand it, or to engage in mission formation to actually resolve it once the awareness has reached a certain boiling point. what impact on awareness do you feel like the opportunity is here? what would you want me, what would you want our audience to understand that perhaps we didn't before you made this film? >> i think certainly in the media, what's catching the attention is the more extreme examples of post-traumatic stress, guys coming home and acting in really almost psychotic ways, and that really is what's getting all the attention. it's too bad because there is a stigma placed on the returning veterans, and there is a lot of suicide going on ask just way too much with our returning
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heroes. what ultimately the intention of the film is to raise the awareness of the silent sufferers, of the men and women who are living their lives day by day who have hidden wounds. and ultimately giving a message of redemption and hope for these men and women who have served us so bravely and honorably. >> spending time down in san diego with marine veterans and navy veterans throughout this entire week, laura, the message they consistently and anecdotally deliver is there is a frustration with an inability to be highly engaged. they want to be challenged, they want a high level of engagement. they come in and say, listen, we're the ones of one half of one percent who were willing to do tours of duty when 99.5% of america would never think of enlisting. we'll go back four, five, six times. you want to take that energy and demand more of it.
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there are guys around pendleton doing hydroponic gardens, okay? there are folks working on sustainable energy. what can we do to be more agressive and demanding and asking more from these veterans which is really the most unifying request that you hear? >> well, i'm not sure that i have all the answers. it just seems that obviously there needs to be some help and assistance extended to them. but these are men and women that are compelled to serve that have such a drive and a force that for that drive and force to come home and not have a place with purpose seems to be a misuse and a waste of such vital human talent. so to give purpose to help create purposeful avenues for
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these individuals, these are amazing warriors that can help us all so much. >> you made this movie in 19 days? >> yes, sir. >> you're crazy. you guys are both crazy. both crazy. congratulations. >> thank you very much. >> congrats, guys. martin papazian and laura san giacomo. the film at the gi film festival. the title "least among saints." channeled through our very own jeff chrysler. we may talk about how we'd like our culture to be, but jeff, he believes he's channelling what our culture really is. ♪ born to leap, born to stalk, and born to pounce.
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time now for the culture of cheating as channeled through our good friend and neighbor, jeff chrysler, who believes he has not only mastered this culture but teaches courses on how you can do it, too, by pointing to the greatest examples of cheating culture in our nation so we can better understand it. up first, jp morgan and their 2 billion, now 3 billion, maybe going to $4 billion trading loss. how does this relate to the culture of cheating, jeffrey? >> first, there's a very simple lesson. 2 billion, 3 billion. i think ms global was around 2 billion. that's the cutoff point for my
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students. don't go above $2 billion because people will get upset. keep it under 2 billion and you can do a grassroots campaign and it's no big deal. >> so the new mark is if you're going to blow a bunch of money that's not yours and you want to get away with it, cap it at 2 billion. >> maybe 1.5 to stay safe, but that should be enough for most. the other thing about this is there's a lot of blame going around, and i think it's misplaced. i blame the teachers. governor scott walker is right, if they weren't teaching ethics and economics, nobody would have found out. and the teachers union let their pension funds invest in people like jp morgan. they're like the private jet pilot that flies into vegas or the jet that takes me home. they're clearly to blame for this. >> clearly we need to blame the teachers responsible for fundsing these banks and hold them accountable.
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up next, away from our own nation as the culture of cheating is not invented here, but it is practiced well here. putin his foot down, i guess, is the title on this one. putin is a good cheater, huh? >> when he was sworn in, he promised more rights while simultaneously cracking down on protestors against him. he's been doing it for about a week now. this is brilliant. he's trend setting. this is what bloomberg is going to do in his fourth term, what obama is going to do in his seventh term, blazing the trail. what's really impressive, he's trailing the future. it was a loose group of nominally independent states that controlled the government and the media and the whole thing collapsed because of a common myth, a failed generation of afghanistan, and the leaders
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were forced to popularity and a secret council of elders. i'm so glad we're not like that. take it easy, dylan. don't get all hollywood with the laughter on me. >> there is no similarity. i recognize there's no similarity with what you described, and as a result, i apologize for the humorous response. finally a little -- maybe you're just funnyer from 3,000 miles away. did you think of that, jeff? >> my wife says the same thing. >> hockey what's this? >> a woman went into a home and got away with $3 million in cash and valuables. talk about missed opportunities. in this economy we need to sort of refocus and have transferrable skills. these hypnotists shouldn't be doing petty crime, they should be running for office.
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they can hit whole populations in voting against their economic interest, they can have a whole structure based on money and assets and perpetuated on money and lives, and just a perfect combination of the skills they're missing. >> i think you have a slogan, i'm funny in person and even funnie rer funnier from 3,000 miles out. "hardball with chris matthews" kicks off in three or four seconds. >> jeremiah was a bullfrog. let's play "hardball." good


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