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tv   The Dylan Ratigan Show  MSNBC  May 23, 2012 4:00pm-5:00pm EDT

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unemployment is still high but there are jobs to be had. in fact 3.7 million job openings offered in march. you just needed to know where to look for them. many workers in fact are opting to relocate to where jobs are located. like for instance, in the other east. it can pay off big. a massage therapist for instance with a high school diploma working in silicone valley will make more money than someone working with a college degree in flint, michigan. of course the cost of living in silicon valley is higher, so the numbers can be misleading. the first guest says, where you live, however, is the number one factor in the type of job you find, whether you are able to keep it, and whether you get the salary you aspire to. and uc berkeley economic professor, author of "the new geography of jobs" and professor, walk me through the logic. why is any choice of where i live perhaps the most determinative, if i understand your thesis, than anything
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affecting my work prospects? >> well, the key predictor of communi community economic success today is the number of college graduates in that community. cities with a lot of can college graduates have been successful with employers. resulting in higher wages and positive feedback that makes the community more and more prosperous. by contrast, cities without a lot of college graduates miss out on high-tech. this wasn't as big in the 1980s but has been growing ever since. now it is the largest it has ever been. >> and to that end, are you suggesting, i suppose it is a multipronged issue. one is, how do you address the lag in the city's that have not experienced the prosperity as the core underlying issue, then
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we will talk about an underlying basis after that. but how do you begin to repair the disparity? >> well, we are spending about between 20 and $40 billion annually in order to try to track investment. to disadvantaged communities. but it is clear it is not working very well. any time a large company announces plans to attract a new factory, new land, to pit in u.s., communities start competing and start bidding for that facility to attract it to their jurisdiction. as you can imagine, when you have those states and counties bidding for the same factory, the bids can grow pretty quickly. new jersey just bid a bill billion dollars to move headquarters of panasonic to newark. do the math, that is $150
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million, you have to decide what wl that is a good way of using taxpayer money. so it is not helpful to attract investment -- >> what would be a different experiment? let's consider that a failed experiment or failing experiment. admirable one. you can understand why we would try to use our central government policies to facilitate this. whether it worked or not. it is not working. so we can accept the poor results of that experiment. i would be interested if you can cast a vision for a different experiment we might try, a different mechanism, cultural or otherwise, who get us better results. >> a program that has been shown to work fairly well is the empowerment zone program. a program started during the first clinton administration that offered target subsidy for job creation and investment in disadvantaged urban communities in a number of states. and recent research shows that that program was successful at
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raising wages, creating jobs, without -- >> so just to understand it -- sorry to interrupt you, but for clarity, you say specifically targeting subsidies to notably suffering communities. basically hot spotting to the communities that are the most in need, a targeted subsidy, for job creation is that what you're saying? >> it was for job creation and also for business investment. the reason why the program works that was it created a lot of private investment in the commune pipts so if you take together the program and through private investment, you found that those community benefitted significantly. it is a good blueprint for -- >> give me an example. >> a number of communities in l.a. and detroit, even new york. struggling neighborhoods in the community that were targeted. they benefitted significantly. >> and the status of that type of program since the first clinton administration? >> it expired last year.
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and i think it would be a good blueprint for further intervention that it is marked and ultimately pays for itself. >> so that will be the 60,000 feet narrative, which is look to facilitate things that do work. now let's take to you six inches. i want a job. i need a job. i now have v this new information which is that, where i live is a huge deal, relative to the type of job that i can get. walk me individually, forget the institutional conversation, through how i intergrit your discovery about job formation into my decisions about my job search. >> well, we live in a moment where prties among american cities, is higher than ever. and yet, the mobility is that at its lowest point in 20 years. and the problem is deep deeper than that. there are vast differences in
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geographic mobility between workers. workers tend to be very mobile and always able to find better economic opportunities in stronger labor markets. workers with a high school degree or even less, are much less mobile. and this is increasingly costly because the difference in wages and in unemployment rates are highest than ever. let me give you an example. in 1980, a high school graduate in austin, in flint, were making pretty much the same salary. today a high school graduate in austin makes almost twice as much as a high school graduate in flint. the return to mobility increased dramatically. and yet, fieer and fewer americans move. and so, you know, trying to help those who would like to move but they can't, because they don't have the cash to do so. >> let's stop there. i feel like you then directly
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intersect. so the issue is, at a diminished mobility for a specifically identified segment of our population. now not as universal principle but as unique incoencumberance very fine number of people, not just a common denominator but the level of education, is that the vehicle of their entrapment, if you will, either the real estate markets and are the healthcare environment. and aren't those two things the very things that have been corrupted in our country to that are now directly inhibiting mobility from those that need it most. am i reading too much into this? >> you know, this difference between college grd yigraduates have been there for 30 years. they are not only known by the housing mess and not only driven
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by the current recession. the difference are structural. and they reflect the fact that college graduates have always been more informed and better able to seek economic opportunities in different communities. now, for some, the choice of staying in weak labor markets like flint or detroit is a choice. and that's a perfectly legitimate choice. but for some, it reflects the lack of cash, lack of liquidity. a move is like an investment. you pay an upfront cost, then reap the benefits over time. but some people simply don't have that type of cash. i'm thinking after system that helps those who would like to move but can't because they don't have the cash, to relocate to stronger labor markets. >> effective lay labor transition fund that would liquefy that market of transition with some sort of availables, funding, is that your idea? >> my idea is to make part of the employment insurance system
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in the form of mobility voucher that helps those who would like to move but don't have the liquidity to actually do make that transition. there is already some -- there is a smaller government program that is intended only for workers who are suffering from unemployment cost by trade, and i think it is time to expand that small program to all unemployed workers. very interesting ideas professors. thank you so much. thank you for taking the afternoon, some time this afternoon, to explain your thinking to us. and the new book, the new jeeg yi of jobs, by enciro jinetti. coming up, here, jolly old joe. he is our favorite. is the vice president's free willing nature the asset that i
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would argue it might be, or a lie bill as others may see it. and what would the president offer on this? the mega panel with their point of view. plus step away from the water cooler my friends. details after new study about office ick. but of course, a new court case that has efrp talking. a cell phone on trial for originating a text behind the wheel, except for she wasn't in the wheel. are you still sleeping? just wanted to check and make sure that we were on schedule. the first technology of its kind... mom and dad, i have great news. is now providing answers families need. siemens. answers.
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constipated? phillips' caplets use magnesium, an ingredient that works more naturally with your colon than stimulant laxatives, for effective relief of constipation without cramps. thanks. good morning, students. today we're gonna continue...
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god rest your soul and although, wait, your mom is still alive, it was your dad pass pepd god bless her soul. >> i wouldn't go anywhere in con tined places now. it is not going to mexico, it is confined aircraft where when one person sneezes, it goes all the way through the aircraft. >> stand up, let me see you. >> three letter word, jobs. j-o-b-s, jobs. hillary clinton is more qualified than i am to be president of out of america. let's get that straight. she is a truly close pernt friend. she is kwulfide to be president of the united states of america. she is easily qualified to be vice president of the united states of america. and quite frankly, it might have been a better pick than me. >> well, as cory booker taught us this week, say what you think, just not popular in american politics. whether it is right or wrong. simply offering your actual
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point of view, dangerous territory. but we can always count on one man to give it to us straight, whether he meant to or not. and that is joe biden. we still count on him for just that service, in fact. apparently, mitt romney, however, along with the rnc campaign machine think joe biden's inability to prevent himself from telling you skktly what he is thinking is not an asset, but a liability. so their plan is to target the truth teller. >> see what the mega panel thinks. imogen, jonathan and robert are here. you are man of d.c., a man of political intrigue and war, jonathan, what say you of new strategy. >> i don't know if it will work for the republican prty. remember, traditional role of the vice president or vice presidential nominee is to be the attack dog. the one going after -- who goes after the presidential candidate. joe biden has shown no shyness about going after mitt romney. and mitt romney is imminently
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easy to go after, given his shifting position answers all sorts of other issues that he has with his own candidacy and that voters have. republican primary voters have with his candidacy. going after joe biden is not -- is not going to help them. the thing about joe biden is that when he makes those gaffs, they actually end up being endeering, to my mind. they make him look less like a politician and an everyday guy who stumbled into the really powerful positions. who is obviously smart and capable and all of that. but he just seems like the really fun uncle at the dinner table at thanks giving who says the wildly inappropriate thing. everyone gasps in horror, then two minutes later they are laughing and retelling the story years later. >> you are nodding here. we are in agreement. if we were to pli play a political strategy, the
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narrative would be a recklessness or -- from romney's perspective, how would he even build it. >> he is the end to bm's ego. that might be sort of like the campaign. but i don't see -- >> tough sell. >> a tough sell. as jonathan said, gi is endeering. he is the blundering uncle. he is like all of us when we say things we don't mean to say. i don't see how fighting that will work. >> i agree with all this. >> i think it will back fire on republicanes. because romney has the bypass and doesn't come away very well with this. americans love politicianes with charisma. which is why bill clinton and ronald reagan had it. i can't vote, but if i did, would he have my vote. >> you know the other thing, dylan, is likability and humanness, up against mitt romney who the jokes now are all about how he is a some sort of
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cyborg, a robot, not of this world. to have someone who is very, very human going up against someone who seems robotic, i think is great for the obama team. bad for the rnc if they are going to try it to use that against them. >> which takes us to the end of the political conversation, which is the way they end every meeting, which is, ever how bad it gets, aren't you glad we are running against romney. we shelf our political conversation for the day. imagine you're in the car -- not in the car, just wherever you are. you send a text message. this week a new jersey judge will decide on lawsuit that considers all of this. a sender after text message, not in the car, sent a text message it a driver who receives the incoming text message. proceedsed while receiving the incoming message it serve into oncoming traffic and can cause a car accident that injured two people.
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so, as of now, 38 states have a legal ban on drivers that bans them by law from reading or receiving a text message while operating a motor vehicle. but there is as yet no precedent for punishing those who would knowingly originate an incoming text or call it an individual they knew was driving at the time. seems absurd but there are indications that there is some legal precedent associated with aiding and abetting such that, if for instance, rob was to send mae text message knowing i was driving to work, and i was to create some awfulness, that you would be on the hook for this. they are saying there may be legal theory for this madness. >> i mean, look. this gets to the lack of personal responsibility, doesn't it? i mean, if anyone can put this into precedent in law, that's a terrible thing. because i mean, at the end of the day, you dylan have the opportunity to not accept my call. bit way, you know not to text
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and drive. there is just no way that -- >> but i think that you make the right point though. which is the fact that this could be even considered anything other than an absurdity is a suggestion that we've got some sort of cultural drift that is in this place where truly, our -- that the whole concept of having to be the hero of your own story, that you are responsible for your actions and what happens is a function of the decision that you get to make and all these things, now the fact that you -- it is krizy. >> utterly ridiculous and completely wrong. legislation is very important. we are 23 times more likely to crash if you are texting by driving. one thing in britain that we have right, and we have plenty wrong, but one thing that is draconian in it being illegal to use a mobile phone when driving. in germany, it is half of them
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do. so we have something right. >> i don't read the paper often these days. >> only when you drive. >> only while driving. there there was an article talking about jonathan, the auto makers looking to install active wifi, factive facebook, active twitter, installed in the console so you've want to get a new car, latest greatest new car comes with, not just gps portal, whatever, but a live screen inner face for the driver. and i'm trying to reconcile the distracted driving. the article was about all of the people who died in california due to distracted driving. but we look forward to having facebook on the dashboard. i don't understand, jonathan. >> bad idea. very bad idea. hey, why not put in an xbox in your console. why not put in nintendo or whatever it is -- whatever kids are playing today. you know, get a robot to drive the car so you can update your
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status and do all those things. it is absolutely insane. insane. >> then sue john madden for inventing madden ball that it was so awesome that you had it play it in the car. equivalent of the text messaging. if the video gaming wasn't so much fun, i wouldn't have had to play it in the car. wouldn't have had to drive over the bridge. >> free the text messenger. free the text mess energy the. >> the panel stays. up next, big oil, big consequences. if you just found that your state just struck billions in black gold, would it be a reason no throw a big party or a curse upon your nation? our specialist weighs in after this. joets john travolta ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ mpic spirit right in our own backyard. so we combined our citi thankyou points to make it happen. tom chipped in 10,000 points.
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when you really think about
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it, we fight over to things on this planet. energy and food. it is simply good national and global security. our specialist is michael ross. political science professor. professor, a pleasure to welcome you here. before i get you rolling, i just want to share with everybody in the audience and the panel a couple of the stative iks from your book that disturb me terribly. that i think advance your narrative as to why it is a curse. first, you say countries that have oil have 75% chance they will be in you a tock racy. there is a 50% increase in the fact that it'll be a dictatorship, so you have a double chance or 50% increase in dictatorship, 75% reduction in democracy and i assume a
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meaningful expansion in civil war. i look at the three times you get when you discover a bunch of oil. and i'm interested in what you consider the unifying flaw in whatever it means to discover oil that creates such a commonality. >> i think a lot of it has to do with the secrecy of the oil industry and oil revenues. you know, oil is the world's biggest industry by some measures and huge amounts of plan flow into countries like venezuela and iran and russia. and yet, the people in those countries and even we don't know that much about how much is there and so, governments are able to spend a lot of money on corruption, on the military, on keeping people off the streets. and silent. but there is, at the same time, some recognition that people aren't getting their fair share. so you see conflicts break out all over the place, nigeria, sue
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sudan, indonesia, colombia be all around this theme that people want a fair share. >> are you suggesting that the most immediate corrective measure absence the invention of the solar car or whatever it might be, is is simply massive levels of transparency on the oil money? is that what we do in alaska? >> i think that would make a huge difference. i mean, one of the interesting things looking closely at the politics of places like rush why and iran and venezuela is that in each of those countries, governments are moving away from more transparency. two years ago, not tis pating the upcoming election, signed a der dedecree -- in venezuela, cha
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shez h chavez has been doing this. it helps people from realizing how much corruption is out there and how much money is siphoned off to special interests and often to fund the military. >> how does oil wells specifically impact women in these countries? it's gotting to negative, right? >> it is an interesting thing. the countries that have the most participation by women in the labor force where women have good opportunity to earn incomes tend to be countries where you have a lot of manufacturing and manufacturing jobs. you know, 90% of all of the clothing made in the world is made by women. but countries that have oil have very, very few economic oils for women. they have an ek nom ig condition called the dutch disease which makes is hard to have manufacturing.
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they have big construction sectors, big oil sectors. they tend not to employ many women. even when you look, for example, in the middle east, you find that countries that don't have oil like morocco and tunisia, have done a pretty good job at bringing women into the libber force and actually reforming gender rights laws. it is countries that have lots of oil, like aljeera and iran and iraq, that have lagged far behind. >> michael, just other exceptions to this rule, i'm thinking, you know, canada has got a lot of oil. australia has a lot of commodities. maybe that's different. but i'm wondering if you think there is some places where there is good governance and fair shares blanketed across the country. >> and i would add it that the state of alaska who pays you if you move to alaska through the alaskan oil fund. there are people that are better at there. >> yes, that's right. the problem is really in the
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developing countries. all of those cases you site, i think are examples of petroleum money well managed where oil is not a curse. the problem is the african countries, middle east, latin america and asian countries where taking oil out of the ground does represent, you know, this one-time opportunity to leap ahead in development. but instead, governments, deck it theors, use it to their personal advantage. large amounts of lost in corruption. and a lot of squandered by fighting and civil wars. >> you argue the line is drawn between the canadas, alaskans, nigerians, and irans, based on culture of transparency and relationship between the population and its government? is there a culture of integrity that exists or not? is that what dictates what
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happens? >> sure. one way to think about it is that when a country discovered oil, you're giving the government a huge mountain of cash. whatever that government's prior inclinations, it is going to be reinforced and solidified. so if you have a perfectly democratic government and people are used to placing checks and balances, and demanding transparency, no problem. but if you don't have those good practices in place, it is much harder to establish them. and the countries that are kind of moving fast towards greater political and social development like the countries in east asia, korea and taiwan and so on, are the ones that don't have much resource wealth. >> jonathan? >> michael, you answered my question. i was getting ready to ask you,
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are we looking at a chicken and egg problem here in terms of, is oil something that reinforces sort of the negative aspects of those governments, those tranquil government or other governments that use oil wealth to suppress their people. and you answered my question. so, no, i don't have a question. >> you talk about the resource deprived can cultures that are actually closer to the edge of social and economic development. >> right. >> so and then look at middle eastern, like egypt or you look at there are countries in the middle east and africa who do not have oil resources. can they actually advance in a way that encourages -- you know, that really innocent advises their neighbors to wake up in a sense? >> you know, i think they have been moving ahead more quickly and in some cases really leading
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by setting good exams. take for example the arab spring. a year ago we had uprisings in pretty much all countries in the region. what was interesting, is that those governments that were armed with lots and lots of oil money, were much more effective at putting down demonstrators. they were able to keep funding their militaries. able to cope army officers loyal to their side. >> bribes. >> sometimes they blanketed the countryside with cash and promises of cash projects. and the places where people really did have breakthroughs, like in tunisia and egypt, are places where governments don't have those resources. and people, consequently, are more empowered. >> food for thought, professor, to say the least. thank you for your time and articulating your analysis so well. the book is called the oil
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curse. how petroleum shapes the nation. interesting in learning between those who handle it well and those that don't. speaking of those solving these types of problems, we have been given the privilege of being able to host an event tomorrow night here in new york at 92nd street y with russell simmons, which will be very interesting insofar as russell has been very aggressive on the cultural front in trying to raise the awareness of the use of collective collaboration in our culture and specifically, using that to get money out of politics. specifically. and so the conversation tomorrow night, i can assure you will resolve around what we all can do in 2012 to get money out of politics. how it is that collective collaboration can be organized over the course of the months to come to address what really is the root issue, whether it is oil, prisons, defense, health,
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banks. you read the books. so you know the story. the unholy alliance is at the root. big conversation tomorrow night. i do hope you will be able to come out, about getting it that root. as we take a break here straight ahead, office ick. new research shows we are picking up a lot more than a paycheck we we go to work. does your phone share what you are seeing and hearing right now with the touch of a button ?
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thanks. good morning, students. today we're gonna continue... [ male announcer ] we began with the rx. ♪ then we turned the page,
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creating the rx hybrid. ♪ now we've turned the page again with the all-new rx f sport. ♪ this is the next chapter for the rx. this is the next chapter for lexus. this is the pursuit of perfection. think about hitting the old break room in it is of course between 4 and 5:00 in the afternoon. maybe i are looking for a club of joe. cleejal banter. it turns out that latest gossip is not the only thing spread at the water cooler. according to a new study half of all microwaves showed high contamination of infectious and bacteria and viruss. so it three quarters of all office handles. apparently the friendly demeanor is to blame.
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this germ-spreading has folks coughing and sneezing on their hands and quite delightfully shake each other's hands. if you use the sponge to clean your coffee cup, it is an e.coli. our desks, according to researches behind said study, our desk comes with a larger germ payload than the typical toilet seat. something to think about. and you're like us, and your desk is where you eat lunch, i look at all of this, if you're wonder, through the lens of the strength of the human immune system. if it is as bad as this study says, and we are all still walking around, thank god for white blood cells. we have your tweets. up next, pros and cons of not getting paid when you good to
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work as an unpaid interm. >> i want to let you know that my circumstances have changed and i can can no longer work for free. >> i'm so sorry to lose you. i was just going to to start you manning our twitter. you have the equipy voice for that. >> no, i'm not quitting. eye just know that got hired after interning so i thought that- >> joy lynn, knows photo shop. in this economy, do you know how many internship requests i get everyday. [ announcer ] all work and no play... will make brady miss his favorite part of the day. ♪ [ upbeat ] [ barking ] [ whines ] that's why there's beneful playful life, made with energy-packed wholesome grains... and real beef and egg. to help you put more play in your day. beneful. play. it's good for you. you know who you are.
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i actually think we might have something for you at the agency. >> that great. >> an unpaid internship. >> i'm sorry, it soundsed like you said unpaid. >> there will be lots of opportunities to do things where no one will give you money. it is interest ced a step in the door for many a college student and in fact served as a step in the door for many and for companies it has become a source of free labor for things like twitter accounts that they don't know how to run anyway. so why not get one of the kids to do it for free? know what i'm saying? >> as of last month the unemployment rate for kids, 20 to 24-year-olds was above 13%. that is double the national average. meanwhile, college graduates are entering our job force this month with record levels of student debt. unpaid and give me debt? yeah, that's the deal. okay, here you go.
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here to talk about it, matt sigel and. i think it is not simply young people looking for work. this is a group of people looking for a debt diploma system then push need this sift people but the counter argument to all of this is, what wrong with you? aren't you grateful to have the opportunity to learn from such a great host as myself as an unpaid intern helping us print scripts? you can learn things. >> well i think the most compelling argument against unpaid -- there is numerous argument against unpaid internship esand a legal argument where you cannot give clear advantage for doing
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clerical for them and help enrich a for-profit company -- zmz it can't be just free labor. . we are stuck in the ditch. >> that a legal nick cality. that no one is enforcing. but the real issue is the socio economic divide. first, let's focus on that. when you are an affluent young person who graduates college or high school -- >> are you an affluent young person or a child of affluent parent. >> well with you are a child of affluent parent. and can you go to l.a., new york, chicago, d.c., work and pay for your housing, transportation, groceries et cetera for free, and your parents want it foot that bill, you have a clear advantage in the labor market to become an employee. if you are a poor kid, so to speak, and you emerge from high school or college with, those opportunities are almost nonexisting. >> because no one can sub
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subsidize your existence. >> secondly, the notion that ten, 15, 20 years ago if you were an intern, you would intern for three months, four months and you were guaranteed almost to have that turn into a job. now, per your lead with the show "girls "people are interning for free for two to three years with five to seven different employers before it turns into a job. that is accruing more personal debt on top of the student loan debt bubble. >> because they live on credit cards to get the resume equity. >> exactly. and in some cases internship programs who are paying -- who charge you money to get an internship. >> we got to look into that. can you do that? >> exactly. can you charge student to get a job through your internship program where they work for free, where you profit off it. there are groups in washington and new york -- >> who doesn't love america.
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>> exactly. so that is basically, 20% -- >> now this is-dhsh is a total innovation. >> that's bad. >> they pay to you work for you and you don't have to pay them. >> exactly. >> so now totally, the phrase that comes to my head is what the fazaka. which i can say on television, right? so the question is, what -- there must be a legal remedy. you mention the fair -- not labor laws. is there not some -- >> well, there is -- >> a direct point of intervention that we can mobilize. >> what incredibly tenacious intern is going to step up and be the lilly led better of student to say, i'm going to walk out of my unpaid internship. no one has con injured the hutzpah to do this. >> so what do we do?
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>> there are few solutions. one, colleges and employers can work together to do a better job to take care of housing, student loan debt repayment. >> as a cultural solution as a human. >> i would be interested to see boeing or pep pepsico -- >> and the media companies are the worst. >> capitol hill -- >> the worst. >> by the way, in capitol hill you are working as a staff assistant, answering phones, doing clerical work. >> you should see what we have our interns doing. i'm kidding. carry on. lastly, there is, of course a massive expansion of jobs. if we have more jobs particularly americorps jobs, which we pushed for last week, at 1 million jobs.org, there are people training, serving through
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community with parks, disaster relief, give them student loan repayment options and thereby they can then become more attractive to an employer with the skills necessary to get a job. >> the only ingredient we are missing, which is where you and i come in, is shame, shame, shame. >> yeah. >> because the only reason this is not being done the way it needs to be done, which is easy to figure out, is because there is an inadequate amount of shame designed to employers exploiting free labor because it is easy and can you do it. >> you would be surprised at the amount of young people who say, and older people said, well i today work five, six, seven, eight jobs. >> they might have. >> exactly. but the problem is, i think in society now, people are compensated adequately -- >> and the point is, it creates a huge rich-poor divide. >> and getting ready for-profit companies and they are not paying, because they can get an
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unpaid internship which should be a receptionist job that should pay $'35,000 a year. >> you could be an intern and i could cover it but we probably need a real intern -- all right, good stuff. >> good to see i. >> "hardball" is up next. but before we do that, we have some questions, he is vim many one, has big brother gotten too big? at bank of america, we're lending an in communities across the country. fro omrevi htalielzeping t a neigbrhbooklyn..or.ho financing industries that are creating jobs in boston... providing funding for the expansion
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can there be any doubt that behind my arrest, a vast organization is at work, and establishments which contain civil servants, officers, police and others -- >> the conspiracy theory. just a conspiracy to have me look at the wrong camera. they're everywhere. as all this time as a conspiracy theory, now the big brother is out there and he is going on trial. there are thoughts on this trial, hi. >> hi, dylan. this might be the biggest case this year. a case testing the limits of the national security powers and it's hardly gotten any attention. on monday there is a case challenging 2008 law expanding the government's surveillance power. there was a big scandal over the bush administration warrantless spy covered by the new york
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times years ago. the government can spy on a wide range without warrants or oversight. obama administration it doesn't even need to disclose if americans are mistakenly or improperly monitored. when a group of human rights advocates took this to court, obama administration said something else. they said the case should be thrown out unclose it is proved this were monitored. that is a classic catch 22. you can't prove what the government is doing when the government keeps it a secret. it is a common tactic that challenges the government's national security powers. like the bush administration before it, this obama administration is taking aggressive legal positions on state secrets to avoid any judicial oversight. in fact a federal court in new york ruled that this case should proceed so the only reason it's in the supreme court is because the obama administration appealed the decision. and again, like the bush administration before it, surveillance is just one of several powers that the obama administration wants to wield
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without oversight. this administration also claims the authority to try detainees and military commissions to wave the obligation to wave past allegations of torture by our own u.s. government officials, and to assassinate american citizens without due process. that is some list. and i bet we would be hearing a lot more about it if george w. bush were still in offers. and by the same token, one look at that list makes it pretty hard it take republicans seriously when they claim outrage over government making you buy health insurance. but there is no big partisan fight over the national security state so case like this, like the one the supreme court agreed to hear this week are unlikely to get a big amount of scrutiny. and that makes it a lot more likely that government will just get a pass. >> we thank you for bringing it to our attention and so astutely describing it to us. i'm hopeful this with s one of
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the ones like hippa and other things and that as people catch on to it, and hopefully the reason they have gone to the supreme court is that they said you can't do this but the obama administration is aa pealing, forcing more oversight? >> yes, the obama administration is appealg it. that may be unpopular because people may not want it know he is overseeing a government doing that. we don't have a final ruling but they are saying there shouldn't even be a day in court. >> you will keep us posted, i know. ari melber, thank you. chris matthews is up right now. pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in boston. let me start with mitt romney's

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